Talk:Human trafficking in the Philippines

Content removals

I have removed a set of problematic additions which are not encyclopedic, poorly written, poorly sourced, and/or showing some bias or POV. If you choose to attempt to reinstate this content, please fix the problems noted in the removal reason on the history page and place the content in the appropriate section, if one exists, before creating a new section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daivox (talk • contribs) 22:41, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

• This article is in need of extensive review and rewriting, due to numerous grammatical errors and multiple conflicts with Wikipedia NPOV policy.DiverDave (talk) 06:09, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I have reverted some of the previous edits because the references clearly state children. Not adolesent partners. There has been wholesale removal in those edits of mentions of children and replaced with words such as adolesent partners which is very concerning edits.Susanbryce (talk) 06:42, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

• I have respectfully reverted your reversion of my three previous edits, Susan. I made multiple and extensive edits to what is a very poorly written article. This aticle suffers from many grammatical errors. Additionally, there are serious problems with its lack of neutrality. I do not dispute that child pornography and child prostitution occurs in the Philippines, but the obvious bias in this article is not in compliance with Wikipedia policies.

You and I do not have to agree on every point, but I respectfully request that you evaluate each of my edits on its own merits, rather than wholesale reversion of other people's edits. For example, I have improved the grammar in many places, and removed redundant and unsupported claims. Many of your sources are broken links, and some that still function cannot be considered to be reliable sources under Wikipedia policies. I am not interested in an edit war; I only wish that this article be improved grammatically and also that it can be brought up to Wikipedia standards. If you revert my edits again, I will respectfully ask for a third opinion.DiverDave (talk) 02:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

First of all it seems you have an agenda here. You keep replacing the word child with partner. A prostitututed child is not a partner of a pedophile. The last time I saw that term was in pro-pedophile material. Second, you have removed most references to child prostitution, many which include the united nations. Third, you have made absolute wholsesale changes to the article without consulting anyone and attempted page ownership. This article has been around a long time and many things were agreed here upon concensus. If there are grammer errors then fine to fix it. If there are broken links then those links will need to be fixed. But white anting the entire article of references to pedophilia in the philippines, white anting references to child prostitution and replacing prostituted children with such words as partners and minors questions your real agenda in this article. For example, you removed the following well cited reference...The area is a favorite for foreign pedophiles seeking children....http://www.philnews.com/2005/va.html

This is just one of many references and words you have removed citing the pedophile problem in pedophile gang controlled areas in the philppines which have been well established within the article with hundreds of references.

Heres another reference you deleted from UNICEF...UNICEF estimates many of the 200 brothels in the notorious Angeles City offer children for sex.http://www.bbc.co.uk/politics97/news/08/0830/phil.shtml

The link is important and it meets Wikipedia reliable sources, you removed it with no reason, just like many other references to child prostitution and pedophilia while rewriting words and sentences to remove the appearance of child prostitution and pedophilia in the article. Susanbryce (talk) 07:04, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Edit disagreements

Hello! I'm an uninvolved editor dropping by to see if I can offer some totally non-binding observations. First thing I see from the recent history is that DiverDave did make some clean-up on grammar and style. But I see Susanbryce's concern on terminology, particularly regarding the usage of "children", "minors" and "underage partners". The Wiki Trafficking_of_children article uses the term "children" to refer people under 18 yrs in accordance with the definition used by the United Nations Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, especially Women and Children, and the International Labour Organization Convention concerning the Prohibition and Immediate Action for the Elimination of the Worst Forms of Child Labour. For starters, can editors agree on using the term "children" in this context? Respectfully, RomaC (talk) 07:42, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• of course I agree. And I have no problem with fixing grammer. as far as any broken links, I will go through all the links over the next few days and fix any broken ones. But this article has had its fair share of pro-pedophile activity over the years, and whiteanting the article while hiding behind fixing some grammer is an agenda.ThankyouSusanbryce (talk) 07:54, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• OK, slow down a bit here. First of all, thanks for finally engaging me in discussion; this is more mature behavior.

Please do not atack me as having an agenda. You should assume that my edits were made in good faith, as I assume you have done. Wikipedia is not the place for agendas or personal attacks. As I wrote before on your usertalk page, I am trying to remove bias and improve the accuracy and grammar and flow of this article. If you disagree with any of my edits that appear to change the bias of the article, then fine: change those edits if you must. But to revert ALL of my edits shows that you believe only YOU have the right to edit this page.

1. I have not replaced the word "child" with "partner" in any case. Perhaps "underage partner", but not simply partner. The terms child and minor and age of majority are confusing and sometimes misleading. If you feel that "child" is a better term than "minor", than fine---I have no quarrel with that. The Philippines is a known destination for sex tourists, some of whom are pedophiles, and I have no desire to misrepresent the situation.

2. Thank you for pointing out the references I deleted which you feel to be important to the substance of the article. I felt that the sentences, as previously written, were awkward and redundant. Even though I believe the grammar is terrible, I have replaced the Puerto Galera and Angeles City sections as they were originally written (with all original references intact) as a token of my good faith.

3. Neither you nor I own this page, or any other on Wikipedia. I have made many changes to many pages over the last couple of years, but never have I had the experience of having extensive edits, made in good faith, be reverted like you have done. From what I have seen by reviewing the history of this article, you have bullied other editors into submission when they have made edits with which you disagree. This is no consistent with being a good citizen of the Wikipedia project.

Surely you have to admit that the grammar and flow of this article has improved with the edits I have made.

I renew my request that you review my edits more closely. If you must change some of them, then do so. But to revert ALL of my edits is impolite and disrespectful. DiverDave (talk) 08:02, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, I just made some reversions/edits, before reading the last couple of comments on this talk page. What I have done is to revert to my last last edit, with a couple of important changes: Specifically, I reverted to the original language and references in both the Angeles City and Puerto Galera sections, as a show of good faith to Susanbryce. With respect to the terminology, I have no problem at all with the use of the term "child". I respectfully request that Susanbryce or any other editor use the term child wherever she sees fit. Just please do not wholesale revert all of my good-faith edits, OK? :-) DiverDave (talk) 08:08, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I would suggest everyone refrain from edits on the article while the dispute is resolved here in discussion.Susanbryce (talk) 08:17, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

If someone wants to make an edit discuss it first, get consensus here with other editors, then make the edit, one edit a a time. Not wholesale edits that are difficult to keep up with.Susanbryce (talk) 08:26, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I have just re-added one of DiverDave edits which I agree with him is an improvement to the article.Susanbryce (talk) 10:44, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I just re-added another edit DiverDave did on the red cross which I agree with him is a better edit, thankyou Dave.Susanbryce (talk) 10:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Changed manila to metro manila as edited earlier by Dave and agree with him that is correct. Thankyou once again Dave.Susanbryce (talk) 10:58, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Changed Pampanga to Pampanga Province and Angeles to Angeles City as per Daves suggestion and agree with him it is correct.Susanbryce (talk) 11:05, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Added the Republic Act 9775, also known as the Anti-Child Pornography Act of 2009.Susanbryce (talk) 11:54, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Added the 2009 Trafficking in Persons Report of the United States (US) State Department on the Philippines due to its high importance.Susanbryce (talk) 03:53, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I was coming back to check on things, glad to see the involved editors are working together to make this article better! Respectfully, RomaC (talk) 17:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Thankyou RomaC for you input and clarification on the use of the word child in the article, yes I have added many of DaverDaves suggestions to the article which I acknowledge were an improvement. Grammer has always been my weakness and its always good to have it corrected. kind regards, thankyou.Susanbryce (talk) 05:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Pedophilia?

I have edited all references to pedophilia, which is a sexual attraction, not a crime.

There are people of all orientations committing crimes in the Philippines, yet pedophiles are singled out. Why there is no mention of heterosexuals or homosexuals criminals? Pedophiles are not criminal, are not child molesters and for the most part do not support such abhorrent behaviour, just like most homosexuals or heterosexuals.

"The area is a favorite for foreign pedophiles seeking children."

"Foreign pedophiles take advantage of the poverty, with children often being used as sexual currency by their own parents"

This kind of wording is degrading of pedophiles, because it implies that just for having an specific sexual attraction, you are criminal (and we dont want to imply that, do we?). It is insulting, degrading, stigmatizing and simply false. Just because you are attracted to children doesnt mean you support child explotation. If you are attracted to women, doesnt mean you support women explotation.

The article was written like if pedophiles (that is, person whose sexual orientation is directed towards children) were criminals or child molesters. Someone who is a pedophile might oppose as vehemently such practices like any person attracted to women, or to men. As I said, your sexual orientation is completely irrelevant and pedophiles are not criminals, and thats why I think that all references to sexual orientation of the criminals should be removed. --Leconso (talk) 15:28, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

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Removal of apparently unreliable source

Here, I have removed a cite reading "Street Children In The Philippines" (PDF). Jubilee Action. Archived from the original (PDF) on February 9, 2006. Retrieved January 27, 2011. and content which appears to rely on that source for support in one case and replaced the cite with a {{cn}} in another case. I'm not sure what the source Jubilee Action is or was, but www.jubileeaction.co.uk is currently unreachable. The linked archived copy of a cited piece from there is undated, and appears to have appeared on or before June 12, 2004. If this is believed to be a reliable source, please discuss here. Also please see WP:DATED re use of the present tense in content supported by this source. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:34, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Introduction to Policy Analysis - Summer Session23

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