Talk:Hurricane Milton/Archive 1

Archive 1

Title

Correct me if I am wrong; but don’t we normally include the year in the title (eg: Tropical Storm Milton (2024))? Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 18:02, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

yeah, I'm pretty sure we normally do. SillyNerdo (talk) 18:48, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Except when it is the first time a name has been used, as in this instance. See, for example, this year's Hurricane Francine. Drdpw (talk) 18:55, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Those only apply to storm names that are not notable enough to not have the year in their title or have only been used once. _ZZ^Z'S 18:51, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Which, I’m only speculating; and I know that we’re not a crystal ball; but if this hits Florida at the intensity it’s expected to hit; this will end up being the only “Hurricane Milton” that we see. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 21:42, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

That, and its also doing a Hurricane Otis as well, explosive rapid intensification into (more than likely) a Category 5 hurricane.

So yeah, this will most likely be the only "Hurricane Milton" that will be named. Accordthemusician (talk) 13:17, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

One major difference. They knew yesterday that the models were indicating possible category 5 intensity. That was 18+ hours ago. They didn’t know about Otis becoming a cat-5 until about six hours prior to landfall. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:05, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Redraftify?

Could we redraftify the article until Milton actually does tangible damages so that I can beef up the article more. ✶Quxyz✶ 20:49, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to it. Maybe wait until it passes the Yucatán and then republish. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 21:37, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Which I mean; I checked the history, it says Hurricanehink was the one who published it; he probably has a reason for going ahead and publishing it, he’s been doing this for close to 20 years. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 21:40, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Though it is a developing and incomplete article for sure, I see no compelling reason to temporarily redraftify it. Serious preparations are currently underway in Florida, and the storm will most probably have serious impacts there in just a couple of days. We can build the article in main space just as well as in draft. Drdpw (talk) 01:26, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

The only real reason to draftify here would be on notability, which Milton has already established from all the preparations. The quality is just fine as it is and can only get better. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 01:27, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Well I think given the fact that this is already a category 5; the notability issue is kinda a moot point anyway. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 19:25, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Should we use "Exposively Intensify" instead of "Rapidly Intensify"

Good morning, fellow Wikipedians. I have a question regarding the lead of this article. Shouldn't we use "explosively intensifying system" instead of "rapidly intensifying system," given that the storm's wind speed increased by around 90 mph in just 24 hours? Yesterday at this time, it was 60 mph, and now it's at 150 mph. TheWxResearcher (talk) 14:21, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

• I don't really know how to imagine an "explosive" intensification. After an explosion, there's usually only bits and pieces of something left. Drmies (talk) 14:22, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

  Explosive intensification is usually for tropical cyclones that quickly increase in strength (e.g. Hurricane Wilma). Ultimately, it depends on how quick the hurricane increased in strength. _ZZ^Z'S 14:27, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

  @Drmies I understand what you are getting at. I was just asking this question because on the Hurricane Otis article it says and I quote "Otis instead underwent explosive intensification to reach peak winds of 165 mph (270 km/h)". TheWxResearcher (talk) 14:27, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

  The latest forecast discussion convinces me that "explosive intensification" should be used instead. _ZZ^Z'S 15:07, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

  The phrase "remarkable rapid intensification" is used in the 11:00 EDT discussion, not "explosive intensification"; why should we use a term that is not being used? Drdpw (talk) 15:35, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

  Fun fact: I was the one who put “explosive intensification” on the Otis article around 6 months ago, given that some people use the term. JAFactsDude (talk) 16:43, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

  Explosive intensification is a sustained winds increase of at least 30-35 (no concretely agreed upon number) kts in 24 hours, and there is even less consensus on explosive intensification. Officially, no such term is used (with meaning) by the NHC, and I personally don't think either option is a definite best option, as the NHC has described Milton as "explosively intensifying," though this was more of a "this is really fast" than "this is an example of [meteorological term]". FISCHEA9 (talk) 05:36, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

  I had a typo and idk how to edit responses here... The first sentence was supposed to be Rapid Intensification not explosive. FISCHEA9 (talk) 05:37, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

  another example is Hurricane Otis even though it already got mentioned ModdiWX (You Got Mail!) 18:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

  Wouldn’t be opposed to it. Especially given the fact that the NHC is calling it explosive. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 18:50, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

  I have bold removed the "explosively intensifying". It just doesn't sound right. SirMemeGod  16:13, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

  I have to agree with @Drdpw on this. The NHC isn’t calling this “explosive” so one might consider this WP:OR or something crazy like that. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:06, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

  New public advisory uses "explosively intensifying" Wildfireupdateman (talk) 17:41, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

  @Drdpw and @Hurricane Clyde Yes @Wildfireupdateman is correct the NHC explicitly says it's explosively intensifying in their lastest discussion now. TheWxResearcher (talk) 17:43, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

  Then we should re-add it. Can you post a link to the discussion (go through the archives and click the latest one that way the link don’t update when the next discussion comes in) Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:45, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

  @Hurricane Clyde I think this is the archived link Hurricane Milton Public Advisory TheWxResearcher (talk) 17:53, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

  It is. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 18:30, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

  An advisory I wished I had never seen. 175 mph and 911 mb. It’s now only 10 mph short of Wilma’s and Dorian’s intensity; and the strongest Atlantic hurricane I know of since Dorian in 2019. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 18:31, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

  @Hurricane Clyde Yes we are witnessing history it is sad that is threatening landmasses. TheWxResearcher (talk) 19:02, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Category 5 in 10 hours from Cat 1

Is this a new record for rapid intensification? 2605:8D80:324:29D1:2D01:49C6:D87D:6368 (talk) 15:29, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I think so Accordthemusician (talk) 15:30, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

It is not yet officially C5. Wildfireupdateman (talk) 15:34, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Huh. Now it is... However, wait until reliable sources cover this prior to inclusion. Tavantius (talk) 16:00, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Well that was quick. Agree with above comment though. Wildfireupdateman (talk) 16:01, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Any records must be verified before being added to the article. An NHC advisory from 2 hours ago confirmed it was the third quickest in the Atlantic basin behind Wilma and Felix; now that it's a category 5, we might see it reported at the next NHC bulletin or, failing that, third-party reporting. Something like this would be easily sensationalized if it's real so there shouldn't be a problem confirming or denying it after the dust settles. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 16:19, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

As of 11:55AM EDT; Milton is now a category 5. But for future reference @Wildfireupdateman is right on this. This is WP:NOTAFORUM. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:08, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Update: This article from WVUE-TV, a Fox affiliate, states Milton now matches Wilma's record; however, I'd wait for better sources before adding this claim. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 17:45, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

And plus; Wilma was stronger. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:47, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Which AccuWeather would be reliable for something like this. So long as it isn’t a damage estimate or a forecast. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:49, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Some Damage done

Currently the hurricane is sitting over the Yucatán, however when it intensified into a category five hurricane in inflicted damage over northern Yucatán. This is not supported by any proof, but I predict that there is damage done. I’d say around 1 million or less so far. 2601:58A:8880:4A90:DD62:5768:A509:74A0 (talk) 22:27, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Please avoid speculation on the talk page. If you have anything to contribute to the article, please add it with proper sources. Wikipedia is not a forum. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:30, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Remember that Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought, and you should not publish anything that cannot be backed up with a credible source. Mitsuba Sousuke :3 (talk) 22:31, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

"This is not supported by any proof" and you have closed your own argument before it was finished. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 22:32, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

It’s not a guess, It’s true, look at Milton over the area 2601:58A:8880:4A90:DD62:5768:A509:74A0 (talk) 22:34, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Sources, please. ArkHyena (it/its) 22:36, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 October 2024

The barometric pressure has officially dropped below 899 Mbar as stated by NOAA Tornadosully (talk) 23:45, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

No it has not. The latest update from 4 PM Central Time states Milton is still at 905. Mitsuba Sousuke :3 (talk) 23:48, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

We will know in about 10 minutes. I or someone else can update it if it goes down. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 23:53, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done Ok the NHC has just updated. See 8pm advisory (please don’t revert!). Down to 897. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 23:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Moot now. @Tornadosully, in the future, please format your requests in a "I request 'example content example content' to be changed to 'example content addition example content', and here's why". This is the standard format for edit requests and is crystal clear as to what you want done. Also, some editors may ignore or close your request if it is improperly formatted. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 00:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2024: Correct hyphens to dashes

In § Florida, please fix the hyphens in the Amreak schedule changes to en-dashes. That is, change the text from

Amtrak suspended its Silver Service between Jacksonville and Miami from October 7-11 and cancelled the Auto Train from October 8-10.

to

Amtrak suspended its Silver Service between Jacksonville and Miami from October 7–11 and cancelled the Auto Train from October 8–10.

Thank you! 97.102.205.224 (talk) 15:52, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done In Special:Diff/1250126127. Thanks for being MOS-observant. Sam Sailor 16:23, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Climate change effects

My text on the impact of climate change on this hurricane has been deleted. It read: “ The storm has been fueled by climate change. Record-high surface temperatures in the Gulf of Mexico and higher moisture in the atmosphere caused by global warming have enabled the formation of the hurricane and its rapid intensification. Sea level rise, also caused by climate change, may potentially make the storm more destructive.“ This is true and sourced, and should be kept in. It should also be mentioned in the lead, which I had written but was also deleted. If you want, I can source it even more. Personisinsterest (talk) 13:06, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I'd say wait before re-adding as the storm is still active. Once more study is done into it, we'll have a better and less sensationalized / editorialized answer. I saw your edits, and they were just as assertive as their sources, stating their headlines as facts without attributing them to the publishers, which seems a little too WP:WIKIVOICE in my opinion. Not that I doubt it's true. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:22, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

People need to know that this isn’t normal, that it’s exacerbated by climate change and scientists agree. Personisinsterest (talk) 13:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Why do they need to know that? 173.167.141.141 (talk) 15:11, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hurricane_Beryl/Archive_1#Climate_change_connection - relevant discussion

I wouldn't add it for now as it would have to be added to every modern storm as all of them are affected by climate change. I would consider it if research papers are published specifically talking about this storm. Wildfireupdateman (talk) 15:29, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

It's normal that tropical systems do rapidly strengthen and sometimes explosively intensify but no tropical systems in this area had took the environment. Hopefully this will be a one time system and no other system does the same for the rest of the season. ModdiWX (You Got Mail!) 18:13, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

References

Dog rescued from river

This article documents a dog being saved from a river. Is it worth it to be mentioned? I do know that there was a man saved during Francine that saw a lot of coverage but that's comparing apples and oranges. ✶Quxyz✶ 20:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

No lasting notability for this specific event in the larger scheme of things. Drdpw (talk) 20:25, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Photo I added earlier that was removed

Howdy, I'm not too pressed if it stays in the article and I looked through the revision history, but there have been well over 50 edits since then and none reference removing an image. The image was placed in the preparations subsection for Florida and I took it at my local Walmart as an example of people buying up supplies ahead of Milton and I'm just curious if anyone thinks it is worthy of being re-added. Keep in mind that Avon Park is away from the coast, but it is covered by a hurricane warning. An identical photo from a Tampa Bay area Walmart would be more justifiable than this photo's inclusion. Thanks, and again I'm not pressed if its excluded, but it could be worthy of inclusion at least at this point.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Water_bottles_wiped_clean_at_Avon_Park_Walmart_ahead_of_Hurricane_Milton.jpg Raskuly (talk) 22:43, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I prefer the photo that was added about the emergency shoulder use, but please reference why you're removing something like an image in your edit description. Raskuly (talk) 20:52, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Adding Helene, Ian, and Idalia to see also?

Forgive me if these requests are too early, but might I suggest eventually adding Hurricane Helene, Hurricane Ian, and possibly Hurricane Idalia to see also?

1. Helene - Obvious choice for impacting the region that Milton is threatening less than two weeks before Milton
2. Ian - Also impacted similar region that Milton is threatening
3. Idalia - Also impacted similar region that Milton is threatening

Again, these requests are probably too early, but these might be good additions for the article in the coming days. Mitsuba Sousuke :3 (talk) 22:48, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I think that’s a great idea in my opinion. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 22:49, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

But I do think it should wait until landfall. I think also adding Milton to the see also on those storms’ articles will be appropriate too; at least for Hurricane Ian anyway. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 22:50, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

too soon to say, as Milton is still active. I would say probably not Helene, as it is mentioned and linked-to within the article a couple times already. Drdpw (talk) 22:55, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I believe we should be adding storms with similar paths and/or intensities only. _ZZ^Z'S 23:02, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Concur, systems that formed the Gulf and traversed the Florida peninsula W to E (presuming that is its course), and Cat4/5 Florida peninsula hurricanes. Drdpw (talk) 23:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I think we should add Joaquin (2015). Reason : Joaquin and Milton both stalled in a certain place to achieve is peak intensity. 2601:58A:8880:4A90:DD62:5768:A509:74A0 (talk) 23:05, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I disagree. I do not believe we should add hurricanes that did not make a similar path nor intensity. Joaquin did not peak as a Category 5, was not in the same body of water, had a completely different track, and affected different areas with different magnitudes. _ZZ^Z'S 23:15, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

You don’t get it though, place DOES NOT matter, they both did similar behavior, which was that they stalled. 2601:58A:8880:4A90:DD62:5768:A509:74A0 (talk) 23:08, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't think Helene can be added as it is already mentioned in the prose. Idalia's definitely out of the way in my opinion.

See the following:

• Hurricane Katrina (2005) - brought devastating surge to New Orleans, which we may see at Tampa
• Hurricane Michael (2018) - made landfall at category 5 strength in Florida. Milton was the replacement for Michael in 2024.
• Hurricane Ian (2022) - large hurricane making landfall in a similar area
• Hurricane Charley (2004) - major hurricane making landfall in a similar area
• Hurricane Wilma (2005) - strongest hurricane in the Atlantic basin

Just a few I think are similar enough to earn a See Also spot. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 23:18, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

yeah i could see wilma on there since both of those are kind of similar imo. SillyNerdo (talk) 00:45, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I’d say Rita and maybe Gilbert should also have a see also spot. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 01:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Especially if the Rita mention ends up getting removed. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 01:25, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Add Joaquin, Both storms have stalled 2601:58A:8880:4A90:211D:2D14:DC65:5287 (talk) 11:40, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

So did Dorian and Harvey. Joaquin was weaker and made no threat to land. Besides, Milton didn't stall to intensify to anything beyond a tropical storm. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 11:42, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Hurricane Joaquin - Stayed in a certain area for several hours/days just like Milton at Category 4 Strength 2601:58A:8880:4A90:211D:2D14:DC65:5287 (talk) 11:44, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Milton didn't stall at category 4 strength, though? GeorgeMemulous (talk) 11:45, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Technically yes and no. It started stalling when it became a category 3. 2601:58A:8880:4A90:211D:2D14:DC65:5287 (talk) 11:49, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Please read what I said. _ZZ^Z'S 11:50, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

And I mean is that Joaquin did, not Milton. 2601:58A:8880:4A90:211D:2D14:DC65:5287 (talk) 11:49, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

And Whoever pointed out Rita’s mentioning, I do agree because Rita is the hurricane with the lowest pressure in the gulf, right on top of Milton. According to Accuweather’s Source 2601:58A:8880:4A90:211D:2D14:DC65:5287 (talk) 11:48, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

That would be me. I pointed out Rita; but Rita is also already mentioned in the article itself. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 18:52, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Helene should be added, Reason: Milton is impacting Florida in about 2 - 3 weeks prior 2601:58A:8880:4A90:211D:2D14:DC65:5287 (talk) 11:51, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Nope. Already mentioned in lead. _ZZ^Z'S 11:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

It's already in the prose. Per MOS:SEEALSO: As a general rule, the "See also" section should not repeat links that appear in the article's body. And also, as Zzzs said,

I believe we should be adding storms with similar paths and/or intensities rather than intensity.

Joaquin didn't do that. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 11:55, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Isn’t there a good example but it’s weak. Mindy (2021). Took a similar track through the Gulf of Mexico at a Weaker intensity. 2601:58A:8880:4A90:211D:2D14:DC65:5287 (talk) 12:01, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Milton Regained Category 5 Status. This is a serious problem. Now the landfall is expected to be deadlier. 2601:58A:8880:4A90:211D:2D14:DC65:5287 (talk) 12:12, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

How many people did Joaquin kill in the Southeastern US? It's not a good comparison. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 12:13, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

We are not adding any of these storms based on forecast as that is a violation of WP:CRYSTALBALL. Wait until it happens first. ChessEric 17:31, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I think there's at least an argument for Wilma, due to their shared intensity and both affecting the Yucatan. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 17:38, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I think Wilma would be appropriate to add now. mitsuwah (he/him) (talk) 17:43, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Keyword expected, not has. SirMemeGod  17:33, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Not Joaquin – not analogous; not Wilma – mentioned and hyperlinked multiple times in the article. Drdpw (talk) 17:55, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

It did not regain Category 5 status. Right now it's at high-end Cat 4 strength. ModdiWX (You Got Mail!) 18:15, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

This is a stupid question but should I add Hurricane Otis in the See Also section, they both ERI'ed into a cat 5 hurricane. ModdiWX (You Got Mail!) 18:18, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

No. Drdpw (talk) 18:21, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Alright! just asking before I did something that I wasn't sure about ModdiWX (You Got Mail!) 18:40, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I also think Dorian should be added unless it’s already mentioned in the article because Dorian was the last Atlantic hurricane to have wind speeds similar to/greater than Milton. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 22:27, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2024 (2)

Wind speeds still listed as being 180mph and pressure 897 mbs, while the most updated information states that it is sitting at 165mph and 905 mb, respectively. Need to change this as the next update will not be until 1+ hours from now. Sad bleep (talk) 21:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. MadGuy7023 (talk) 21:45, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Apologies for not citing sources. This is according to the National Hurricane Center and the information that is being broadcasted by major networks, such as The Weather Channel and Bay News 9. Sad bleep (talk) 22:00, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

The wind/MSLP listed in the infobox is maximum winds and lowest MSLP, not current winds/MSLP. Wildfireupdateman (talk) 22:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I think we should maybe update that statement to  Partly done: on account of the fact that the meteorological history section has been updated to reflect the changes. And ps. I cited reliable sources. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 22:32, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing this out, my apologies. Sad bleep (talk) 23:35, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

"4th strongest hurricane ever recorded by pressure on this side of the world"

A professional meteorologist described this hurricane as such, do we have perhaps a better source for this claim to be able to add or is this tweet somehow worthwhile to add maybe as a professional's reaction? Akaibu (talk) 23:01, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I really don't know where he pulled that claim from. Milton isn't even the 4th-strongest Atlantic hurricane by recorded pressure per the table on this article (4th-strongest would be Rita). ArkHyena (it/its) 00:09, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

NHC website unavailable

The NHC website is currently unavailable. If it remains that way at 8:00pm EDT, how should we update the max winds? Tavantius (talk) 22:14, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

we don’t; we leave things as they are until the site is back up and running or the information is relayed by another reliable secondary source. Drdpw (talk) 22:24, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

The NHC site is working fine for me. It doesn't shock me, though, that in a historic and deadly situation like this that intermittent service outages will occur. Whoever can get on of the editors on this page will edit it to reflect current information, and if not, there's no deadline and information can be added when it can be accessed by the greater public. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 22:24, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I noticed that same problem. 503 service unavailable. Probably too many people visiting the website. Same effect as a “denial of service” attack, only unintentional and likely not malicious. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 22:43, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Also, please don’t use the link to the current advisory page when citing. Use the archived version, or in my case, I manually type in the advisory number. Even if it shows a 503 error for a couple minutes; it’s better than having the citation being rendered moot three hours later. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 00:13, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Any news...

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

About the Scorpion Reef? Right in the path of Milton. This should be added (here and on that page) if/when any referenceable information becomes available. An Important Bird Area, and one of the islets (Isla Pérez) in it has a lighthouse and a few houses. - MPF (talk) 13:25, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I can find no sources about scorpion reef for now. Wildfireupdateman (talk) 15:30, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

From what I can tell, Isla Perez is very, very sparsely inhabited and has no permanent population, so it's not a stretch to imagine everyone there would have been swiftly evacuated. As for impacts on the island itself, Milton was a small storm in terms of windfield (especially in contrast to last month's Helene) so I don't expect any major impacts, despite its relatively close pass at historic intensity. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 19:32, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

It still could've been damaged by storm surge. Keep it in mind when researching impacts in Mexico. Raskuly (talk) 20:53, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Wildfireupdateman, GeorgeMemulous, and Raskuly: Thanks all! Yes, I don't expect there will be any information yet, but when it does eventually become available, it would be valuable to add it (perhaps more at the location pages, than the Hurricane Milton page?). And yes, it is the storm surge flooding that is likely the most important; perhaps even erosion enough to leave the islands permanently below high tide levels? - MPF (talk) 22:06, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Umm guys, we just dropped to 902mb. https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCPAT4+shtml/082053.shtml; don’t cite that link, cite the archived version Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 00:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Pings to @GeorgeMemulous, @MPF, @Raskuly, @Wildfireupdateman. You should probably look at this. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 00:03, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

WP:NOTAFORUM. This has little to do with Isla Perez and Scorpion Reef and this isn't even Milton's strongest phase so far. I doubt by now that another editor hasn't already added it to the meteorological synopsis. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 00:17, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

In the news nomination

• I have placed this template at the top of the Talk page. Jusdafax (talk) 10:03, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2024

add this to Meteorological History At 3:00 UTC on October 9th Milton Had Slightly weakened to 915 Mbar (27.02 inHG), continuing Northeast towards Florida link: https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCPAT4+shtml/090241.shtml RealKozmos (talk) 04:03, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done here! ~ Tails Wx 15:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

What happened to the hurricane cone forecast maps?

We used to show the NHC hurricane cone maps in our hurricane articles. These allow one to see the timing forcasts for when & where to expect the winds/precipitation of various levels. Like this for Milton now.

As it stands, the article is really short on info of when the hurricane makes landfall on the Florida coast. But the cone maps shows it is after 7pm ET on Friday, 11 October. Odd that is not in the article, or this cone map isn't. N2e (talk) 03:36, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=1229957783#Editors_removing_formatted_citations_for_bare_URL_citations and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2024_June_19#Tropical_cyclone_current_storm_templates for why cones and the warning table templates that you may have been familiar with in past years were binned. Boils down to a WP:MOS related edit/revert war earlier this year that spilled onto ANI, and "liability". ConCompS talk 03:48, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. That is a super helpful reply. Hate to see Wikipedia go backwards, and have less good articles, but I get how our institutions (including Common Law and weird liability outcomes by juries against those centralized entities with capturable assets) have negatively reshaped other industries as well. N2e (talk) 04:36, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I think there was a noticeboard discussion either this past spring or the spring of last year that decided against posting the cone graphics. @Hurricanehink and @WeatherWriter can probably clarify that because I don’t know exactly when that discussion was. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:44, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Ok, you all linked it. June of this year there was an ANI discussion about it. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:45, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

But I think the bottom line @N2e is that we are not a newspaper; and that’s probably why everything spilled into ANI and TfD. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:46, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Also, N2e (talk · contribs), don't consider this a step backwards. Wikipedia isn't a crystal ball to predict when the storm will move ashore. That's not our job. The article should reflect what has happened, so ahead of the storm, that would include the preparations and the met history. Hurricane Beryl was the first article to develop with this new approach, and I believe the article was even better because of the new policies, by focusing on building up the article, rather than speculating what may happen. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:49, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2024

Sentence requesting to edit: "Milton then weakened down to Category 4 strength due to an eyewall replacement cycle" with paragraph ending. The storm has since regained its former Category 5 status, which should be included either within or following this line. The original sentence seems as if it remains a Cat 4. Sad bleep (talk) 21:09, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. MadGuy7023 (talk) 21:45, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I’m pretty sure it has since been updated. I think that needs to be updated to  Done, because it has been updated since your request @Sad bleep. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:52, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Casualties while evacuating

There have been fatalities and injuries as a result of evacuating ahead of Milton, including one from a car crash and 3 injuries from a plane crash while doing so. While this should be included in the article, I'm not completely sure where it should be mentioned. Either ways, I do want to note that these are indirect casualties as a result of Milton, not direct. ~ Tails Wx 17:42, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

The same thing happened during Hurricane Rita's evacuation. The direct/indirect casualty specification is a fairly minor one, which will probably be noted later on in the TCR, so yes they should be added. Probably in preparations section. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:46, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Alright, I've done so here. Thanks! ~ Tails Wx 17:59, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2024 (2)

Erm...Hurricane Milton hit FL as a cat 4. 69.244.242.108 (talk) 19:13, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi IP editor, Milton has not made landfall yet and your request is a bit unclear. Can you please rephrase and elaborate? ✶Quxyz✶ 19:17, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

The article records its maximum, it isn't a minute-by-minute account of current status (though that's hard to tell sometimes). Acroterion (talk) 19:17, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Not done for now: as Milton has yet to make landfall. Just because it’s impacting Florida with tropical storm force winds (and is still currently a cat 4) doesn’t mean it’ll make landfall as a category 4. We can revisit this later if it turns out to be a cat-4 at landfall. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 19:36, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

See also

You think it would be appropriate to at least add Dorian and Wilma to the see also?

Hurricane Dorian – The last Atlantic hurricane to have a similar wind intensity.

Hurricane Wilma – The most intense Atlantic hurricane. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:56, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Nix Wilma, as the storm is already mentioned. Add Rita to see also instead? Lowest Gulf of Mexico pressure. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 17:59, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Rita went the complete opposite direction and hit Texas instead. Lowest pressure in the Gulf needs to be confirmed by reliable sources and by that point I'd think Rita would have a link in the article. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 18:01, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Wilma's already mentioned and can't be in the See Also. Not sure about Dorian considering it was well out of the way and I'm leaning towards not including it. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 18:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

My reasoning was simply because of the peak intensity of Milton being similar to Dorian. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 18:27, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Michael should definitely be mentioned though on account of Milton being Michael’s replacement and affecting the same state. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 18:28, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Maybe in the manner of it being a very powerful storm in the same region but I would not care about the name. I would honestly just focus on temporarily (Debby) or region (Ian) right now. ✶Quxyz✶ 18:33, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

My opinion

Hurricanes that should be in the See Also:

Wilma

Helene

Michael

Rita

Maybe:

Labor Day

Dorian

1928 Okeechobee

Wildfireupdateman (talk) 19:45, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Not Helene or Wilma because of the fact that they are already linked in the article. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 20:20, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Ian should probably be in there (eventually) as well though. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 20:20, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Here’s my opinion on the see also; subject to change:

Michael – Category 5 hurricane that made landfall in the Florida panhandle. Milton was Michael’s replacement.

Rita (maybe) – The only hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico that had a lower pressure than Milton.

Dorian – The most recent Atlantic hurricane to have a similar wind intensity to Milton.

Ian – A category 4 hurricane (at landfall) that impacted similar areas two years earlier.

Charley (maybe) – Another category 4 hurricane that impacted similar areas 20 years earlier.

1935 Labor Day (maybe) – Category 5 hurricane that impacted similar areas. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 20:26, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Link to Milton

Would this downburst or tornado be linked to Milton even though it was in the Bahamas? ✶Quxyz✶ 01:55, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I also found this tornado but it has the wrong date. ✶Quxyz✶ 01:58, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Tornado numbers update

according to the following article from a local news station, Ron DeSantis has said that there were 116 tornado warnings (at least) today and 19 confirmed tornadoes thus far, you do have to scroll a bit into the article

https://www.wptv.com/weather/weather-news/multiple-fatalities-in-st-lucie-county-sheriff-says AutisticLoser (talk) 02:14, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

ignore the above, I see it has been added now. Didn't reload the page enough ig AutisticLoser (talk) 02:16, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

A sub-article for the tornado outbreak will likely be needed, but we should wait for more to come in before such is produced. CrazyC83 (talk) 02:34, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I was meaning in the impact section (florida) but you might be right. I'm not gonna worry about it for now tbh, I'm still new to wikipedia so y'all probably know better than me. AutisticLoser (talk) 02:36, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2024

The death toll in Mexico has been said to be atleast 30. 207.255.8.83 (talk) 02:42, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi IP editor, we need a source to change the article, we cannot rely on word of mouth. ✶Quxyz✶ 02:44, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2024 (2)

Three people died in St. Lucie tornado from collapses.

https://www.news-press.com/story/weather/hurricane/2024/10/09/hurricane-milton-tornadoes-florida-nws/75597841007/ 207.255.8.83 (talk) 02:49, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Not done for now: from what I'm seeing, the source does not have the specific number of fatalities stemming from the St. Lucie County tornado just yet. ~ Tails Wx 03:05, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Map not updated

File:Milton 2024 track.png

File:Milton 2024 path.png

seems to be updated quicker than the one currently used 78.54.62.211 (talk) 05:56, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

WP:SOFIXIT. The first one will not be used as it does not comply with WP:ACCESSIBILITY and Supportstorm (talk · contribs) is trying to filibuster the new colors.--Jasper Deng (talk) 06:11, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Isn’t using the word "strong” a little conservative?

I feel like saying Milton is a "strong" tropical cyclone might be a little understatement of the situation that Milton has. It had a very intense pressure of 897, comparable to Wilma Levels. Other articles like Maria had other big bold words like "extremely powerful". Obviously the storm still exists so can’t get too thing about it since it will most likely change but just a thought TheHumanFixer (talk) 03:12, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I believe the reasoning used behind this is that it is CURRENTLY a high-end category 2, which is pretty strong but not exceptionally strong. Once the storm dissipates, it will probably be changed to "Hurricane Milton was a {insert big bold adjective} hurricane" Wildfireupdateman (talk) 03:15, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

WP:NOTAFORUM. Nothing to see here.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Conservatives 2603:6011:2800:5BB:C097:89DE:33FD:AF08 (talk) 04:40, 10 October 2024 (UTC) Remember, cultivation righties will fight tooth and nail against climate change. Stay strong and resist the right wing cult. Anything resisting mainstream media is wrong and cultish 2603:6011:2800:5BB:C097:89DE:33FD:AF08 (talk) 04:43, 10 October 2024 (UTC) WP:NOTAFORUM Wildfireupdateman (talk) 04:44, 10 October 2024 (UTC) I know, off topic, but should we do a WP:NOTAFORUM closure on this particular discussion? Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 05:20, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I am the one who put "strong". As long as the opening sentence uses the present tense, i.e. while the storm meaningfully exists, it must describe what the storm is, not what it was.--Jasper Deng (talk) 06:13, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2024 (3)

Add That at on October 9th at 500 ETC Hurricane Milton Weakened to a Category 3 Hurricane with sustained winds of 120 mph link: https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCPAT4+shtml/092055.shtml RealKozmos (talk) 21:19, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Add where? Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 00:59, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I would like to ping @Quxyz, @Hurricanehink, and @Tails Wx over here; and one of them can give their take on whether or not that is necessary to mention; because I really don’t know. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 05:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

This request would appear to be moot.--Jasper Deng (talk) 06:17, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Milton’s Records List here

!WARNING, MAY NOT BE ACCURATE,I AM LISTING THINGS EXPLAINED FROM THE PAGE! Strongest in the Gulf since Rita (I might be right or wrong here) Strongest In the Atlantic since Dorian 5th strongest storm in the Atlantic basin.

Possible Records Shattered: Slowest moving hurricane as a Major Hurricane One of the largest Tropical Cyclones ever recorded in the Atlantic (or maybe the Gulf) Fastest intensification in the Gulf since Rita (2005). This may be more records than expected. Sorry if it is Inaccurate or too early to ask. 2601:58A:8880:4A90:CD7A:6DC1:EF48:27C6 (talk) 23:46, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

There is no chance we'll add this if you do not have a reliable source to back these claims. _ZZ^Z'S 00:10, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

AccuWeather,The Weather Channel, Fox, etc. 75.74.83.12 (talk) 02:05, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

• Note: I am keeping track of Milton records and plan to add a records section after the storm passes into history(unless someone beats me to it). Drdpw (talk) 00:31, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

  I think that it's the first storm in the NATL to have two peaks below 905mb. Don't quote me on that though. Wildfireupdateman (talk) 00:45, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

  I think that's true actually, I don't pay attention to hurricane records usually lol. SillyNerdo (talk) 00:57, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

  And it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see (just look at the pressure records template) that this is the first storm to have its pressure drop into the 800s since Wilma. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 00:58, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I highly doubt Milton was ever slower moving than Hurricane Dorian was over the Bahamas, and even if it was, we'd need a source. Milton was for the most part moving about 6-10 MPH at peak iirc, which is slow but not unheard of for a Major Hurricane. AutisticLoser (talk) 02:05, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Sources are AccuWeather,The Weather Channel, Fox, Tampa Bay News, etc 75.74.83.12 (talk) 02:08, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

do you have a link then? Cause saying those sites doesn't link an article AutisticLoser (talk) 02:08, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, but I never save them. 75.74.83.12 (talk) 02:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I will come back in 10 Minutes with the links 75.74.83.12 (talk) 02:10, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Dorian was quite literally stationary as a Category 5 hurricane. Can't beat that. Let us please also limit the "records" to true records that are reported on by reliable sources; anything else is mere WP:TRIVIA.--Jasper Deng (talk) 06:17, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Infobox fatality count citation

The fatality count in the infobox says "2," with a footnote clarifying one direct and one indirect, but there's no citation attached, and under the "Impact" section there's only one fatality explained. Where is information about the other fatality coming from? Until a source is provided, I think that that number should be reduced back to "1." The-demon-next-door (talk) 21:30, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

The indirect is in preparations, it's from a car crash during evacuations. mitsuwah (he/him) (talk) 22:48, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Thanks! The-demon-next-door (talk) 01:54, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I have added a note to the lede for clarity. Hopefully that works. --Super Goku V (talk) 10:01, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

are these any news on whether prisoners were kept safe

are these any news on whether prisoners were kept safe — Preceding unsigned comment added by Travelrisk (talk • contribs) 14:02, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2024 (3)

Did you get the two deaths from the retirement community in St. Lucie?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/10/10/hurricane-milton-live-updates-florida-aftermath-thursday/75599239007/ 207.255.8.83 (talk) 11:16, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

 Already done I believe that's the same location where four fatalities occurred. So in short, yes. ~ Tails Wx 14:18, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Meteorological history map plot of Hurricane Milton

Could someone please update the image showing the meteorological history map plot For Hurricane Milton? The last image still shows Milton being a Category 4 just prior to landfall instead of it being in the Atlantic dissipating CandleWickipedia (talk) 18:06, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

It cannot be updated because User:Schwede66 foolishly used it as the main page image for this article in its WP:ITN entry, resulting in it being fully protected for as long as it is. In the future, also, WP:SOFIXIT: the track map generator is easy to use.--Jasper Deng (talk) 18:46, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

How about you read WP:NPA, Jasper Deng? Schwede66 18:55, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

@Schwede66: Calling your content decision foolish without comment on you is not a personal attack. You have yet to admit you made a mistake here nor revert your action so you're being called out, fairly.--Jasper Deng (talk) 18:57, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Striking as I did not see you took it off. It took you too long to admit that and as you can see, it causes frustration for readers and map maintainers, so I did not take it lightly that you appeared to ignore my comment to that effect. Not to mention calling the kettle black by calling this a "hissy fit" in your edit summary. With that said, thanks for undoing the action and we can let this go.--Jasper Deng (talk) 19:00, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Secondary picture for Milton in Meteorological History section

I do know that generally ISS pictures of hurricanes are included on the articles for the storms, however, I believe it would be better to include a picture of Milton at or near its secondary peak intensity on October 8. Are there any other thoughts on this? AveryTheComrade (talk) 20:59, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Why not have them both, not necessarily in the same section?--Jasper Deng (talk) 21:18, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2024 (4)

Please add that the Lightning season opener was postponed due to the hurricane. Source: https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/3095779 74.101.118.218 (talk) 21:30, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done here! ~ Tails Wx 21:48, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2024 (5)

Under the "Fatalities" It says 15+, which is a inaccurate number. the accurate number would be 12+. (https://www.nbcnews.com/weather/hurricanes/live-blog/hurricane-milton-live-updates-rcna174774) QuantumResearchIsCool (talk) 23:22, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done The number for 14 in Florida is sourced and there's also a death in Mexico. News sites may display outdated figures since information changes quickly. Noah, BSBA^Talk 01:19, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Expand on Hillsborough/Clean Up

Hi! So currently we have two separate paragraphs that include information about deaths in “impact”, and a single line saying that Hillsborough reported significant damage with no follow up information after it. Can we clean up the article a little to make sure those paragraphs make sense together (maybe combining them) and expand on the damage to Hillsborough in more detail/move damage details there to after that line for better flow? Paycheckgurl (talk) 13:08, 11 October 2024 (UTC)