This page provides a place to discuss new items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page (see past items in the ITN archives). Do not report errors in ITN items that are already on the Main Page here— discuss those at the relevant section of WP:ERRORS.

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Bashar al-Assad in 2018
Bashar al-Assad

Glossary

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  • Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
    • Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
    • A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
  • Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
  • The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.

All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.

Nomination steps

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  • Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
  • Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually – a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
  • Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
  • You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.

The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.

Purge this page to update the cache

Headers

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  • When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
  • Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A.
    • If satisfied, change the header to (Posted).
    • Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted).
    • Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).

Voicing an opinion on an item

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Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.

Please do...

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  1. Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten.
  2. Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page.
  3. Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible.

Please do not...

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  1. Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself.
  2. Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.
  3. Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest.
  4. Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
  5. Oppose a recurring item here because you disagree with the recurring items criteria. Discuss them here.
  6. Use ITN as a forum for your own political or personal beliefs. Such comments are irrelevant to the outcome and are potentially disruptive.

Suggesting updates

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There are two places where you can request corrections to posted items:

  • Anything that does not change the intent of the blurb (spelling, grammar, markup issues, updating death tolls etc.) should be discussed at WP:Errors.
  • Discuss major changes in the blurb's intent or very complex updates as part of the current ITNC nomination.
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Archives

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Archives of posted stories: Wikipedia:In the news/Posted/Archives

Sections

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This page contains a section for each day and a sub-section for each nomination. To see the size and title of each section, please expand the following section size summary.


December 9

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Politics and elections


(Closed) Ali Mahmoud Abbas

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Ali Mahmoud Abbas (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): (LBC Group)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: His death was reported on X after 11 hours Syrian Observatory for Human Rights confirmed in a safe house in the Damascus countryside.

Well sourced and covered deserves nomination

@Andrew Davidson Considering as developing story, would it be on a presumed death. QalasQalas (talk) 12:33, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Siaosi Sovaleni

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Article: Siaosi Sovaleni (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Prime Minister of Tonga Siaosi Sovaleni resigns ahead of a vote of no confidence. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, ABC News (Australia), AP News
Credits:

Nominator's comments: His article has 30 references, but the resignation of head of government is enough for posting. Moraljaya67 (talk) 13:30, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose article is hardly updated with only one sentence in the body about the resignation. Maybe an article about this apparent political crisis would be preferable to the article about the PM himself, but a head of government resigning appears notable enough for ITN. Departure– (talk) 17:32, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Departure– adds separate article QalasQalas (talk) 17:59, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Eras Tour ends

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: The Eras Tour (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ American singer-songwriter Taylor Swift's concert tour, The Eras Tour, concludes in Vancouver, Canada, becoming the highest-grossing tour of all time and the second-most attended after 149 shows. (Post)
News source(s): The Canadian Press
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Historic tour with a rich socioeconomic and cultural legacy, even if you do not like her this is a defining cultural moment. User:Rushtheeditor (talk) 01:01, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was not aware of that posting, but I would be 100% against it. Natg 19 (talk) 07:57, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 8

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports


(Closed) 2024 Israeli invasion of Syria (ongoing)

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2024 Israeli invasion of Syria (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): Axios
 ArionStar (talk) 22:31, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps: "Syrian rebel forces capture Damascus and Israel invades southern Syria as overthrown president Bashar al-Assad (pictured) flees to Russia." Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 23:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's way too much going on now to be able to fit everything into a blurb. I think it's best to just hit the key points. Bremps... 00:13, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with this blurb. 2605:8D80:560:54FC:A9EE:899B:AD28:4E0F (talk) 00:13, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not every special military operation is an invasion. Israel invaded Syria decades ago and still hasn't left. But there are now Israeli settlements in the occupied territory - so I'm fine with adding an ongoing about ethnic cleansing. Nfitz (talk) 00:34, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is special military operation a sarcastic reference to Putin or not? I'm genuinely curious as I don't have that much background knowledge about who did what in Syria. Bremps... 01:25, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes it is. Israel hasn't even entered an area of Syrian control. They've merely put some troops into the Area of Control, that is, if anything, UN territory. Nfitz (talk) 02:48, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Rebel forces capture Damascus

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Battle of Damascus (2024) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Syrian rebel forces capture Damascus following multiple offensives by various opposition groups. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Syrian president Bashar al-Assad (pictured) flees as rebel forces capture Damascus following multiple offensives by various opposition groups.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Syrian government of Bashar al-Assad (pictured) collapses as rebel forces capture Damascus following multiple offensives by various opposition groups.
Alternative blurb III: ​ The Syrian government of Bashar al-Assad (pictured) collapses as rebel forces capture Damascus.
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: Article is NOT ready as of this nomination, but this is a defining moment in this conflict. Departure– (talk) 02:01, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support A decades old dynasty that came to an end is definitely newsworthy. Rager7 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 20:48, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Much bigger than Notre-Dame. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6c5d:5b00:23c3:c1ff:b038:b3a5:d438 (talk) 06:09, 8 December 2024
Strong support THIS is actual news. A decade of war finally over Abo Yemen 05:04, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
alt blurb 2 obv Abo Yemen 05:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Yeah honestly just change it to "capture" because there is almost a 100% chance that it will fall by the time it is posted Lukt64 (talk) 02:13, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Clearly notable; this is probably the biggest story of the month so far. It's already on the front page of the BBC, the New York Times, CNN, and quite a few others. Looks like it's Assad who must go, after all. Gelasin (talk) 02:20, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, Assad is done
Personisinsterest (talk) 02:44, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait altblurb It hasn't been officially confirmed that Assad has left. But when it does, support.
Personisinsterest (talk) 03:07, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support The rebels have apparently taken over various government buildings, and Assad has fled Damascus. I think a more suitable blurb would include “captured” or “taken over” Damascus, but this also works. They have completely won. Hungry403 (talk) 02:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support time to migrate Syria to Ba'athist Syria. Scuba 02:56, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Added altblurb – Assad has reportedly left the country. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 03:00, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support posting, preferably as soon as possible. Massive development in a long-running conflict. -insert valid name here- (talk) 03:11, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Personisinsterest (talk) 03:50, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support but wait for confirmation that Assad has been toppled and where he has fled to. This is one of the biggest stories of the year. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 03:52, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
STRONG support confirmed2A00:F3C:A282:0:4C7A:412B:134E:D001 (talk) 04:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: per above and Damascus has fallen
QalasQalas (talk) 04:27, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Assad leaving doesn't necessarily [yet] confirm it has falled. At least we can say Assad is a gonner 2A00:F3C:A282:0:4C7A:412B:134E:D001 (talk) 04:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See AP: "Syrian government appears to have fallen in stunning end to 50-year rule of Assad family". Gust Justice (talk) 04:35, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't get, so what's your point? QalasQalas (talk) 04:36, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The departure of the Assad family doesn't mean the government has fallen. Mubarak's family left Cairo and Sisi is stil there as same old, same old. Hear the PM. There is not new government.2A00:F3C:A282:0:4C7A:412B:134E:D001 (talk) 04:41, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia is not analyzing what will happen in the future.
WP:RS confirmed Reuters, AP and AFP
  • Asad administration has fallen
  • Damascus is under rebel control
  • Syrian National TV said he jetted into a disclosed location
QalasQalas (talk) 05:03, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Finally! It's confirmed. The articles are in the nice phase where it's comprehensive before it inevitably devolves into a WP:INDISCRIMINATE hellscape and are postable. Bremps... 04:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've edited all blurbs to indicate the capture of Damascus, as current news reports. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 04:31, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Counter edit as untrue. The government collapses when there is a new governemtn and the PM is still talking about transitions. Biden's regime didn't collapse in november.2A00:F3C:A282:0:4C7A:412B:134E:D001 (talk) 04:34, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Damascus captures =/= government collapse 👍 you must've misread my edit. Here are sources: NBC News, Al Jazeera. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 04:38, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Did you hear the PM? 2A00:F3C:A282:0:4C7A:412B:134E:D001 (talk) 04:40, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The PM discussed the peaceful transfer of power, not whether Damascus (the city) has been captured or not. Reliable sources are reporting that the city is captured. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 04:46, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Fall of a capital city and a dictator, major news Dyaquna (talk) 05:01, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can't tell if this is premature celebration of peace being achieved or a polemical anti-immigration comment, but either way, I'm afraid that right now is probably not a great time to travel to Syria  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 06:36, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ??? Refugees are already returning from Lebanon. How is this different than the quick return of refugees from the camps in Thailand to Cambodia? Nfitz (talk) 06:41, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Because this particular conflict is too complex and multi-sided to know if the fall of Assad and the end of the war are necessarily the same thing.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 07:08, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Absolutely - but also not a great time to stay in Lebanon either. (though some new refugees are fleeing to Iraq). But it was the "polemical anti-immigration comment" bit I was responding to. Nfitz (talk) 08:33, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I considered that to be a possibility because anti-Syrian-refugee sentiment is very common in Europe and in Turkey so "Refugees can go home now." could have been read in multiple ways.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 19:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed, and the support comment has nothing to do with the ITN nom at hand. Also the refugess in Lebanon are not returning wholly voluntarily either [1]. Gotitbro (talk) 20:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but prefer that we use a picture of Assad, no strong opinions on any particular file. Without question one of the most significant things I've ever seen nominated for a blurb. Though I do have to respond to some of the comments that refer to this as the end of the civil war. As much as I'd like to be able to blurb that the civil war has ended, only time will tell whether the war will rage on even with Assad out of the picture. Historical precedent shows that dictators being deposed is often what precedes years of civil war. While it's never felt closer to being over, the rebel groups aren't exactly unified. Bear in mind that the rebel group that made the largest gains in territory this week is a splinter group that split from Al Qaeda – not exactly a group that the whole of Syria will peacefully be united under. But what we know to be certain is that the Assad era of Syria is history, and that is monumental news.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 06:36, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 7

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports


RD: Darrell McGraw

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Article: Darrell McGraw (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): US News
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former West Virginia Attorney General. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:42, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose needs source work. Scuba 18:57, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing removal: Russian invasion of Ukraine

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Russian invasion of Ukraine (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)
Nominator's comments: The frontlines have been mostly static for two years since Kherson was retaken, besides small Russian pushes and Ukrainian counteroffensives. Compared to the other wars currently in Ongoing, the invasion of Ukraine isn't at the same level of high-intensity conflict anymore. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 21:45, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose There's still plenty of developments in the war and surrounding geopolitical conflict, even those that don't involve the frontlines. There's more to war than territory, and this war, despite little land changing hands in the past year or so, has proven that. Departure– (talk) 21:49, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose as per this reasoning. The war is still very active and is the deadliest war of 2024 as per List of ongoing armed conflicts. Pluma (talk) 23:40, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. I can't remember the last time I read any new news about the war. It's getting closer and closer to becoming a frozen conflict every day. Gelasin (talk) 22:39, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    A frozen conflict is one where active armed conflict has mostly ceased, which does not describe the Russo-Ukranian war, where the conflict is presently at its most deadly in years, despite little movement in the front lines [2]. Pluma (talk) 23:37, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Of course it's not currently a frozen conflict, but it's certainly heading in that direction. Most of the major territorial changes happened not long after the Russian invasion started almost three years ago. Gelasin (talk) 00:01, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If you aren't seeing frequent coverage, I think you should be changing your newspapers subscription. Today there's most of a page here covering the Russian opposition that certainly involves the war. Yesterday the opposition had front-page coverage going onto to a 2-page spread. The day before there was a piece about trying to overcome the war damage with investment. With the recent increasing Russian advances and reports about their ever-increasing death toll, the nuclear sabre rattling over the deployment of longer range UK and US missiles there's been more coverage recently, as far as I've seen. Nfitz (talk) 00:45, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's in the news every day, contrary to e.g. the Sudanese war. Khuft (talk) 22:59, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose for now because of the ascendancy of the Trump administration in January, and the subsequent negotiations he has promised to bring about to "end the war" within days or weeks. The reality is, there will be renewed press coverage and increased clarity on the future of the war within the next two months. Trump's stated strategy will either cause a truce/stagnation along current boundaries (time for removal at that point), or a major escalation (in such case we will just have to re-add it). Removing from ongoing right on the precipice of that significant geopolitical "benchmark" in the conflict, just seems silly. We could instead wait to pull the trigger on removal just a little bit longer, at a more logical time when the future of the war becomes clearer in January. FlipandFlopped 23:03, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose there is no credible argument that this is less static than the Sudanese civil war. The fact that most of the world's nuclear powers are invested in the situation in Ukraine, and that none of them are similarly invested in Sudan, does matter. Walsh90210 (talk) 23:05, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The credible argument is that Singa, Sudan, a city the size of Kherson, was retaken two weeks ago, while no such movement happened in Ukraine for two years now. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 23:26, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Did we miss that Ukraine launched a ground incursion into Russia just a few months ago? The Kip (contribs) 23:52, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Timeline of the Russian invasion of Ukraine (1 August 2024 – present) reports actions for every day. Grimes2 (talk) 23:05, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*Support There have been no significant territorial changes for almost two years. The fact that it’s in the news everyday isn’t a strong argument to keep it. For instance, the COVID-19 pandemic was removed when it was top news on a daily basis just because people got used that there’s a pandemic in the world. In the same way, people are aware that there’s a war in Ukraine, so there’s no need to keep it in ongoing forever.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:09, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per above. There are still frequent updates, even if territory isn't changing much. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 00:01, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Ghana general election

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Article: 2024 Ghanaian general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: John Mahama (pictured) is re-elected as President of Ghana (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The National Democratic Congress (Ghana), led by John Mahama, wins the Presidential and Parlimentary majority in the 2024 Ghanaian general election
News source(s): Aljazeera
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Ongoing Ghanaian general elections for presidential and parliamentary candidates. Heatrave (talk) 12:28, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Kwango province disease outbreak

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Article: 2024 Kwango province disease outbreak (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 79 people have died from an outbreak of an unknown disease in Kwango, Democratic Republic of the Congo (Post)
News source(s): ABC News, USA Today, VOA
Credits:

Nominator's comments: First death was reported 10 November 2024 but only recently has this started gaining media attention. 79 is the count from the Africa CDC, but local health authorities have reported 143 (as reported in ABC News). Article may need updating as this situation develops. Staraction (talk | contribs) 06:58, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait for more information. If the disease is later known, it would be worth posting as such. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 12:50, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait per above, posting with more information availed later would be better than keeping readers in suspense, especially given than it may get forgotten later for some reason. ExclusiveEditor Notify Me! 16:03, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait There's not enough information. There are no test results yet which means it could end up being a known illness (or even a mix of different illnesses), in which case it's unlikely to be ITN worthy. Johndavies837 (talk) 18:49, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Could be a while before anyone knows what it is. Bremps... 04:33, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose situation unlikely to develop further. Some of the sources in the article are also dubious (Newsweek is cited for some reason) Scuba 18:56, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing removal: Sudanese civil war

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Sudanese civil war (2023–present) (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)
Nominator's comments: The war has slowed down significantly, the article is updated less and less frequently, and Ongoing is becoming bloated. Gelasin (talk) 04:38, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support due to bloat, decrease in edit counts. Scuba 05:52, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support besides with the current limits Syria could use priority currently, but in the future we can change it if more news comes in Ion.want.uu (talk) 07:57, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, the war has not slowed down, with the major city of Singa, Sudan (259,000 inhabitants, as much as Kherson) having been recaptured only two weeks ago. The article points out that [a]ccording to a report by the French newspaper Le Monde, as of November 2024 the war in Sudan has possibly entered its most dangerous phase since it began in April 2023. Both the SAF and RSF have officially ruled out settling the civil war through negotiations, with the only option on the table being total war. War crimes are also still ongoing, like the 2024 eastern Gezira State massacres. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 10:28, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just because events may continue to be ongoing doesn't make the topic necessarily suitable for ongoing. Ongoing line is for topics that generally get near-daily news coverage, and in the case of the Sudan war, its updates are in spurts, roughly weekly. — Masem (t) 12:46, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • oppose per Chaotic Enby Abo Yemen 12:47, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Ongoing is getting long, and this article isn't updated as frequently as the others. We can add it back if something changes to warrant that. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:07, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Chaotic Enby. It is still ongoing and if anything, has intensified since we first put it on. There are still daily updates on the timeline page which include major losses of civilian life. I also do not agree on precedent with removing a conflict from ongoing, even when the loss of life and devastation remains high or growing, just to free up space - too arbitrary of a reason, IMHO. FlipandFlopped 15:44, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support—Not because the situation is calming down per se, but because the world is no longer paying as much attention as it once did. We don't have the civil war in Myanmar in Ongoing, and as far as I'm aware, it's no less deadly. Kurtis (talk) 16:15, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And this is how systemic bias creeps in. The Russia-Ukraine war is much more static (no city comparable to Singa has been retaken since the frontlines stabilized two years ago), and yet, as it is more of a topic of interest to (mostly Western) editors, the war in Sudan is the one that is being considered for removal instead. "The world has moved on" is a very Western-centric way of putting it. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 17:05, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support; the world has moved on from Sudan as evident by the edit history slowing down. No longer worthy of ongoing. Klinetalkcontribs 16:58, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    the world has moved on
    That sounded horrible, like really horrible Abo Yemen 18:11, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am not here to sugarcoat what the truth is. Obviously they are not on their own and should never be, but the news outlets are no longer interested in covering Sudan anymore, more important stories have developed. Klinetalkcontribs 20:28, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*Support. Per most of the above. While the war still may be ongoing, there just isn't much coverage as it used to anymore. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁=☁=✈) 22:06, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Changing to Oppose. Maybe I was exaggerating at first. Despite partially feeling WP:CPP, the others have a clear point. Whether it is no longer being covered or the war has calmed down or not, the conflict isn't essentially over. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁=☁=✈) 04:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the only reason that its not being covered as much is because western media just wont cover african countries. this deserves to be known about. Lukt64 (talk) 02:15, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Pulled) Northwestern Syria offensive

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Article: Northwestern Syria offensive (2024) (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: I think it's appropriate at this point to nominate the Northwestern Syria offensive article for the ongoing events for ITN. There's been significant developments, the article is being updated pretty regularly, and RS are consistently covering it. The capture of Aleppo is also still displayed on ITN. Previous discussion (from December 1st) rejected putting Syrian Civil War back on ongoing and said to nominate the article for Northwestern Syria offensive instead. Can I has Cheezburger? (talk) 02:44, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support per nom Abo Yemen 12:46, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support when the current blurb rolls off. This conflict is probably the most important one in the world right now, and it will determine the future of the Assad government. The article is seeing continuous updates; this qualifies for ITN. Gelasin (talk) 03:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support this is what is getting updated, not the article for the entire civil war itself. Scuba 03:48, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Five ongoings is going to push that to three lines and we may have problems with front-page balance in the future. We should probably consider if the Sudanese civil war is really needed at this point, given that its only getting significant content updates about once a week. --Masem (t) 04:11, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be fine removing Sudan. Scuba 04:17, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've nominated it for removal. Gelasin (talk) 04:33, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've voted in favor of removal. Scuba 05:53, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
stole my nomination :( Support though Ion.want.uu (talk) 07:53, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment make sure the ongoing says 2024 Syrian Opposition offensive Ion.want.uu (talk) 07:56, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, although the simultaneous 2024 Deir ez-Zor offensive (from the SDF, which is now fighting both the regime and the Syrian opposition) makes me wonder if Syrian civil war might be the better target (maybe with Timeline of the Syrian civil war (November 2024–present)). Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 10:20, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Things are developing really quickly right now, so it's an article many readers would be interested in. It also is seeing intense coverage by many sources. Gust Justice (talk) 14:21, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Covered significantly in RS, and the situation is developing rapidly. Support ongoing. Schwinnspeed (talk) 15:18, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Massive changes going on and we might see a final conclusion to the 13-year civil war. I would say merge the Israel–Hamas war and the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon into either one hook or remove the Lebanese one (ceasefire, in theory) instead of removing the Sudanese one - odd to have three Middle Eastern wars right smack dab next to each other all on ITN. Juxlos (talk) 15:22, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, although maybe under Syrian Civil War, since the article is still focused mostly on the Northwest Offensive while it seems like there's an effort to transition it to being more about the reignition of the civil war at large. Pluma (talk) 20:51, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Juxlos. If we have to clear up space to make this happen, I agree with merging the two Israel-related articles as opposed to removing Ukraine or Sudan. FlipandFlopped 23:08, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On the other hand, with report that Damascus has fallen, the Syrian army demobilizing, Assad fled, and the Russians evacuating their naval base - maybe this should be a blurb, once the media catches up to the overnight activities and the extent dawns on them. Nfitz (talk) 01:08, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

December 6

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RD: Eddie Stobart

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Article: Eddie Stobart (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Telegraph
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British businessman. Death announced on this date. Ollieisanerd (talkcontribs) 16:35, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Dickie Rock

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Article: Dickie Rock (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Irish Times
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Irish singer and member of The Miami Showband240F:7A:6253:1:31E4:1BA6:D6A9:2C91 (talk) 15:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Soft support wish he had a Discography source, but other than that it is okay. Scuba 18:54, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Reopening of Notre Dame

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Article: Reopening of Notre-Dame de Paris (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Notre-Dame cathedral (pictured) reopens following reconstruction after the 2019 fire. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Notre-Dame de Paris cathedral (pictured in 2024) reopens following reconstruction in the wake of the 2019 fire.
News source(s): AP, CNN
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Trying again, as the cathedral is now opening tomorrow. The previous nom was closed due to the cathedral not being open yet. Natg 19 (talk) 18:09, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support this altblurb once it opens: it should wait until the event has happened already and there is a picture of the reopening to attach instead of showing a picture from April. Pluma (talk) 20:56, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's not ITNR and there's no indication of significance for just another building opening up in the 21st century. If we ITN the opening of every well-known building we might as well be a construction newsletter –Jiaminglimjm (talk) 23:40, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is a bit of a slippery slope fallacy. There is a feasible way to demarcate between major, widely covered closures of worldwide landmarks vs mundane construction updates to every named skyscraper with a wikipedia article... the degree of news coverage. Support. FlipandFlopped 23:54, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be fine with this being a construction newsletter. Scuba 03:48, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to say it again: Any blurb starting "The Notre" sounds weird, for the same reason it would if it was all in English and started "The Our". GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:08, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 
Notre-Dame de Paris, across the Seine, before reopening
  • Posted Stephen 22:06, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree that the fire should not be bolded. I just looked at the reopening article, and it is not much more than a stub. I fixed a sentence about the music program, but it has no reference. I came to add a recent image (that I took on 4 Dec) but found no place for it. I believe that it is less pretty than the one featured, but perhaps more informative, showing the rebuilt spire, cranes more clearly, and tents for the celebrations. It could be cropped, of course. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:12, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I also agree that the fire shouldn’t be bolded (it was when it actually happened more than five years ago).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:22, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Romanian presidential election 1st round annulled

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Article: 2024–25 Romanian presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The first round of the Romanian presidential election has been annulled by the Romanian Constitutional Court due to Russian electoral interference. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The first round of the Romanian presidential election is annulled by the Romanian Constitutional Court.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The first round of the Romanian presidential election is annulled by the Romanian Constitutional Court following allegations of Russian electoral interference.
News source(s): Euronews, Reuters, AP
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: This is unprecedented. Have not marked it as ITN/R but does concern an election. Article needs updating Abcmaxx (talk) 14:23, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I disagree with Gelasin and oppose altblurb 1. IMHO, the interference is what makes blurbing this now appropriate. If it were being annulled for some other domestic issue, I would say just wait and post the ITNR results with a little note about the delay in the blurb. I believe the consensus already formed that the alleged Russian interference is what is notable, and that this should be in the blurb. I've proposed a compromise altblurb 2 which weakens the language to "allegations", as opposed to stating the interference as a matter of fact. FlipandFlopped 15:50, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stephen, Moraljaya67, Bremps, Queen of Hearts, I addressed all the individual tags I could find and also removed an unnecessary section - the campaign section was duplicative of the "debates" and "leading campaign issues" sections which followed, so there was not anything to say. There was a generic "unreliable sources" banner at the top, but no individual tags to that effect. There are some cites to Facebook, but they are appropriate in context because they link to candidate statements and endorsements. Let me know if that's enough to shift your vote. FlipandFlopped 16:09, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is significant enough given the fight between West and East in East Europe. Also, the quality problems seem to have been fixed. Tradediatalk 21:19, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted ALT2. All issues raised above seem to have been addressed. Schwede66 23:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Kelly Powers

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Article: Kelly Powers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced. Death published on this date. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 13:29, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Miho Nakayama

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Article: Miho Nakayama (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Japanese actress and singer. 240F:7A:6253:1:7956:811C:CEEE:B7FD (talk) 10:22, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The article's body looks good generally (although I am unsure about the reliability of some sources), but the filmography/TV series list is completed uncited. ForsythiaJo (talk) 21:38, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The ginormous tables at the end of the article need to be cited somehow. FlipandFlopped 00:07, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Soft oppose per tables, however, an uncited Filmography hasn't stopped articles being posted before. Scuba 18:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes it has, often. Stephen 23:59, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Stanisław Tym

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Article: Stanisław Tym (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): WP (in Polish)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Orange tagged but could be easily expanded and brought to a good standard. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:10, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Soft support pending article expansion of course. I'm thoroughly heartbroken. One of the greats of Polish satire and comedy of the last fifty years. I have lots of work over the weekend but I'd love to find the time get the article up to standard. --Ouro (blah blah) 09:29, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose orange tagged. Ping me if the article is ever updated. Scuba 18:52, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Maggie Tabberer

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Article: Maggie Tabberer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [3], [4]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Happily888 (talk) 06:34, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support properly cited. Scuba 18:52, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

December 5

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RD: Peter B. Teeley

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Article: Peter B. Teeley (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Press secretary to Vice President George H. W. Bush and United States Ambassador to Canada. Coined Voodoo economics. Obit published 5 December. Thriley (talk) 06:08, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Soft support stub, but properly cited. Scuba 17:45, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We do not post stubs, Scu ba. Schwede66 22:33, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Currently at 1491 B (241 words). —Bagumba (talk) 12:20, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Paolo Pillitteri

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Article: Paolo Pillitteri (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Notizie
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Italian politician, film critic, and journalist. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 16:07, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Soft oppose His list of essays is strangely formatted (usually these are a bulled point list at the end of the article), and also not completely cited. There is one footnote from a website called "Spirali" addended to one of the entries that is a source for a handful, but not all of the works listed. FlipandFlopped 23:58, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support I don't see any problems. Scuba 18:51, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

December 4

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RD: Princess Birgitta of Sweden

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Article: Princess Birgitta of Sweden (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): SVT (in Swedish)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Elder sister of King Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden. Died on December 4th. Article could probably need some work with sourcing. 31.44.227.152 (talk) 10:02, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Article needs sourcing. Scuba 17:11, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Assassination of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Brian Thompson (businessman) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson killed in an apparent assassination in New York (Post)
News source(s): https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/unitedhealthcare-brian-thompson-death-12-04-24/index.html
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: I checked yes for RD because this is a death, but really this is a blurb. CEO of a major corporation shot in an apparent assassination in broad daylight on a city street. BD2412 T 19:43, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb but support RD yes this is getting news coverage in the US, but this isn't a global news story, also Thompson led a very quiet life before this, he didn't even have a page until he was killed. Almost all the articles cited in his page are either primary sources, or where made after he was killed. Scuba 20:30, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If he led a quiet life such that we have nothing prior to this event to build an article, then that's a BLP1E issue and we shouldnt have an article on him. Really this event should be in the United Healthcare article. — Masem (t) 20:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
agree _-_Alsor (talk) 22:18, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that now, retroactively, some news sources, such as the AP, are publishing articles about his life before he was killed. The article has already been made and approved, it's quality is only going to increase from this point. It would be silly to delete it. Scuba 03:33, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb but support RD. Unless there's some indication that this was a political act, terrorism, or an international death squad then I don't see that it's ITN. It barely even meets GNG for an independent article which makes even an RD questionable - but I think this is a break-all-the-rules occasion and we should post an RD, even if an article for him doesn't meet the requirement of an article through WP:SINGLEEVENT. Nfitz (talk) 02:12, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb, support RD as per above. This isn't particularly global news, but it is notable enough for RD. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 02:41, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Michel Barnier loses no-confidence vote

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Articles: Michel Barnier (talk · history · tag) and Collapse of the Barnier government (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The French prime minister, Michel Barnier, loses a motion of no confidence. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The French government, led by Michel Barnier, collapses following the passage of a motion of no confidence in the National Assembly.
News source(s): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ckgxw9wj241t
Credits:

Article updated

 Tim O'Doherty (talk) 19:37, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support changes to the French PM are ITN/R Changes, reelections or reappointments in the holder of the office which administers the executive of their respective state/government. Scuba 19:41, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's Macron, isn't it? Masem (t) 19:43, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The prime minister of France (French: Premier ministre français), officially the prime minister of the French Republic (Premier ministre de la République française), is the head of government of the French Republic Scuba 19:45, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
List of current heads of state and government puts the Presidency in that position, not the PM. — Masem (t) 19:49, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to add, I am not making any objection on this yet as a normal ITNC, as even if not ITNR it's still worthwhile to include. It just doesn't seem to have the automatic ITNR aspect. — Masem (t) 20:01, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No problem, also, looking at that list it says Barnier is head of government, and Macron is head of state, with Barnier shaded blue due to offices lack de jure constitutional power. Scuba 20:28, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That would be a mistake, the French President has power over diplomacy and national security while the PM is the one actually heading the day-to-day government. I guess since it's a semi-presidential system it sorta blurs the line. Scuba 20:20, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Part of it is the problem that Wikipedia's own terminology really just assumes that every government just follows the Westminster System, (where all de-facto power on the top level derives from a single elected legislative body that picks its own leader) and thus assumes everything in every other government can be directly translated to an equivalent role. (e.g, treating the United states President as the same as the UK's Prime Minister, just elected separately) As we can see here, there's places where the site's attempts at direct, 1-for-1 parallels on a per-member basis tend to fall apart once you leave the Commonwealth. Realistically I don't think there's any hard-and-fast rule that can just be applied to all governments, but instead it'd need to be evaluated nearly on a per-country basis, and that in many countries like France... The role of "head of government" can't be cleanly placed onto a single head like it can in the United Kingdom. Nottheking (talk) 08:42, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The wording seems to include the prime minister. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 19:46, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Irrespective of whether this is ITNR or not (in the French system, both the President and the Prime Minister kinda head the government), this is worth blurbing. First time since 1962 that a French government is toppled by a vote of no confidence. Khuft (talk) 19:55, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Regarding the ITN/R status, France has the technicality that the President has more power over the executive outside of cohabitation, and the Prime Minister during cohabitation. And, well, the Macron/Barnier situation was variously described as a messy kind-of cohabitation, although Macron is still considered to have retained more power. So, it's not clear-cut, but not necessarily ITN/R. Still, this is a major political crisis we're getting into, as no group can realistically build a majority coalition and the 2025 budget has to be voted soon, so it's very much significant enough in my opinion. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 20:15, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Chaotic Enby. It's sort of a pseudo-ITNR situation given the cross party appointment and the state of the legislature. However, regardless it is getting extensive worldwide news coverage and should qualify as a normal ITN candidate anyway. -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 20:35, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, article appears in good shape (itnr or not) Masem (t) 20:49, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question - is it the government that lost a non-confidence vote, or the Prime Minister? I'm not sure the exact phrasing of this particular motion, but in most countries it's the government that falls, not the PM; which could lead to the appointment or selection of a new PM to lead a new government, or even the reappointment of the same PM if there's behind the scenes negotiation to obtain support. Nfitz (talk) 03:35, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    From what I can piece together, it's sorta like the British sytem. The government is gone, Macron has to appoint a new PM and whoever (if anyone) gets approved by the assembly has to make their own cabinet. Scuba 04:12, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support major political event. Not head of state, I suppose, but well, good enough. Juxlos (talk) 03:50, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. IDB.S (talk) 05:36, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Shortest-tenured French government in quite some time; serious development in one of the world's largest economies. Daniel Case (talk) 06:04, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is in good shape; very solid-quality piece. As far as the notability of his position, we have to remember that not every country just has a carbon copy of the United Kingdom's Westminster System, so there often is more than a single "Head of Government." And given that the UK gets two official leaders (Head of State & Head of Government) to merit ITN attention, it's fair to consider most other countries get two such positions, with the Prime Minister of France (who does wield many powers analogous to a Westminster-style PM even if the President is still the official Head of Government) fits the bill here. Nottheking (talk) 08:33, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is just a consequence of the summer election (which we posted) as its failure to establish a clear majority continues to play out. Barnier will continue as a caretaker PM as no successor is in sight and so the French govt is still a work-in-progress. It's like the continual crisis of the speaker elections and stopgap budgets in the US in 2023 and ITN didn't post every twist in that saga. The broader encyclopaedic topic is the general economic instability and unrest following the COVID-19 recession which is making it hard for incumbents everywhere – Germany, South Korea, &c... Andrew🐉(talk) 13:00, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The broader encyclopedic topic by itself isn't really suitable for ITN due to poor story-article correlation. Items like this are suitable because they speak towards the broader topic. Duly signed, WaltClipper -(talk) 13:39, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as ITNR In my view, this is clearly ITNR. The ITNR rule allows for elections for "head of state and government". France has a different head of state (Macron) than head of government (Marnier). It does not say "head of state OR government" - the choice of "and" in the ITNR rule therefore implies that both should be posted. If we would like to change the ITNR rule to only designate a single ITNR election per country, that is also fine, but this is not the place to do so. We must enforce the current ITNR rule as it is drafted. FlipandFlopped 14:32, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • There are some govts where the head of govt is purely ceremonial as all the power lies in the head of state, and in those cases, changes in the head of govt are not significant. As long as we, as shown here, can discuss and reach the same conclusion for a head of govt solely from an ITNC approach without invoking ITNR, it's probably best to leave the ITNR alone. — Masem (t) 14:41, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as ITNR as the French President and Premier share jurisdictional responsibility. SerialNumber54129 14:44, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now due to lack of article - first of all, this is clearly not ITN/R, there's nothing in the provisions for this scenario - thus far Barnier hasn't yet left office and he isn't the most senior poltician in France anyway, that would be Macron. That said, I do in principle think we should post this... *but* the story needs an article. We have March 2023 French votes of no confidence for the less newsworthy ones that didn't succeed, so it is not a correct situation for this story to lack one. Linking to the BLP on Barnier isn't the answer to that, the story isn't just about him anyway it's about his whole government and the much wider situation concerning French politics. Effectively this is an oppose on "quality", since an article not existing is rather a severe quality concern    — Amakuru (talk) 14:52, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Not every event needs a sepearate article, and this impulse editors have to rush to create one is a larger problem with NOTNEWS and article creation in general. ITN just requires a significant update to some article. — Masem (t) 14:57, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Consider 2024 French political crisis. That's been ongoing since June and Macron is more central to it than Barnier. Andrew🐉(talk) 15:05, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, that would be an alright contender for the bold link. But the notion that this event doesn't need an article is bunkum. With a few exceptions, if a story isn't notable enough to be covered anywhere except in a BLP article then it almost certainly isn't worthy of inclusion in ITN. This no-confidence motion clearly should have one (or at the very least a prominent section in the article Andrew mentions) and we shouldn't list it under the Barnier BLP just because nobody has created the necessary proper prose for it.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:14, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The issue that we have NOTNEWS problems is the idea event must be distilled into a new article, but that has never been a requirement for ITN posting. Is this event worthy of its own article? Ignoring ISE logic, right now it feels it is part of of larger picture related to the Barnier govt, since the the no confidence vote was a result in that. It makes far more sense to this to be the coda of the existing Barnier government article (which is nowhere close to being too long to include) rather than a separate article that would require adding more context that already exists in the Barnier govt article. I agree the BLP article is probably not the best target, but a new article is also not required when there is a clear suitable article right there already. Masem (t) 19:02, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now due to lack of article This probably already counts for ITN/R (as many have already noted), and even without that this is already significant for being the first time since 1962 that a French government lost a no-confidence motion. All the more reason then that there should be a separate article for this, because that same 1962 motion has been at least covered under the 1962 French presidential election referendum, and more recently the ITN blurb for Imran Khan's deposition in April 2022 also bolded the No-confidence motion against Imran Khan article. Yo.dazo (talk) 16:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Oppose because this is notable in France and I put it in 2024, but this hasn't led to a new head of government being appointed. Barnier is still the caretaker PM. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 18:52, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As many have said above this, this only means that this doesn't count as WP:ITN/R. To me at least, being the first time a French government was dissolved by a no-confidence vote since 1962 is enough for WP:ITNSIGNIF. Yo.dazo (talk) 20:04, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Barnier has resigned as PM of France. TheCorriynial (talk) 17:58, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can we have an update here? Either post it or don't, but it's not really "news" anymore... Tim O'Doherty (talk) 20:29, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • ITN is not a news ticker, we are not required to post things in a hasty manner. That part of france's govt still remains collapsed, so this is still very relevant. — Masem (t) 20:35, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      The nomination is about the VONC, not the continuing travails of the French government. If it is posted soon then it will have been twenty-six hours since: either modify the blurb or close the discussion. We shouldn't be "hasty", but we equally shouldn't be letting news discussions run into a third day. There's no point. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 21:32, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      We have a seven day period for noms to be added and posted for ITN for a reason, it's for us to feature quality articles that have been in the news, not to keep readers abreast of the news. Masem (t) 21:42, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I agree with Masem - no need for hastiness. Also: Macron just announced a couple of hours ago that he will nominate a new PM "in the coming days". We might as well wait for the nomination of the new PM, and then fold the vote of no confidence into the blurb. Khuft (talk) 21:25, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now because there is no article yet. The political situation in France is very fluid and so we might be getting a lot of events and we don't want to be a news ticker. Maybe as these events unfold, we would have had the time to write a comprehensive article about them. Tradediatalk 08:26, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support due to the creation of Collapse of the Barnier government. CitrusHemlock 16:23, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Original blurb is still ready to be posted, the blurb can always be changed to target the new article when improved. Re-marking as ready. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 20:20, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Jared Isaacman nominated as NASA administrator

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Jared Isaacman (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Jared Isaacman (pictured) is nominated by Donald Trump as the next administrator of NASA. (Post)
News source(s): (Bloomberg) (Reuters)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Significant because Jared Isaacman is the first nominee that is not a politician nor have any NASA experience. However, he is significantly involved with SpaceX and the private space industry. WhatisMars (talk) 16:39, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Brian Thompson

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Article: Brian Thompson (businessman) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/12/04/nyregion/brian-thompson-uhc-ceo-shot
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: CEO of United Healthcare, insurance company QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 14:59, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose as the article about him was just created today and looking through older news, I don't see any type of coverage that would have made him notable before this shooting, this failing BLP1E. And while we could consider the event as possibly notable, there's very little known as to motive to make a good article on it.Masem (t) 15:10, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That reason @Masem, is not mentioned as an RD requirement in WP:ITN/DC. This RD 100% meets the requirements laid out at RD:ITN/DC, so this "vote" should not be considered. Also, that it's brand new is now a stale argument on December 6th for this December 4th event. Nfitz (talk) 23:58, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Notability is a necessary element of quality assessment. And while it may be possible that notability of a person prior to their death could come in the form of post-death obits and other pieces, that simply hasn't happen here. Details about his life that are presently in the article are superfilious and do not show significant coverage from secondary sources. — Masem (t) 00:24, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    superfilious? That's not a word, nor does supercilious make any sense. Nevertheless, a notability debate is not on-topic here. Please discuss this in an appropriate forum. Nfitz (talk) 00:32, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    probably meant "superfluous" Bremps... 03:26, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Ah, that's probably it. Ironically it's the discussion of notability here that's superfluous! Nfitz (talk) 08:28, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Given that he technically does have an article now, I think he passes notability if there's enough info to expand the article. Until then, it's not ready. Estreyeria (talk) 15:30, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. It's currently a half step above a stub and there are legitimate 1E concerns. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:23, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support there is an AP article out now that talks about his life before he was assassinated, but I understand the concerns that he didn't really get much media coverage before he was killed. Scuba 20:31, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lean Oppose I'm not too sure if Thompson is really notable other than his death. He isn't that widely known as the CEO of UnitedHealth and thus the article may violate WP:BLP1E. INeedSupport :3 04:00, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Nfitz, 331dot, Alsoriano97, BD2412, and MtPenguinMonster: the other RD/blurb for Brian Thompson was closed, so you all should (re)comment here. Natg 19 (talk) 06:00, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article looks significantly improved and very well referenced; it's good to go. And I'm seeing a lot more media reports about this death, than many that are listed at RD. Some of the opposition above seems to not have any weight, as if an article for a person exists, then it's the quality of the article that's the issue; not a debate their notability! Nfitz (talk) Nfitz (talk) 07:48, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article seems to be well-cited, and cover a decent breadth of the subject's life & career; a very solid Start-class article, (and potentially well on its way to a C-class in the coming days at this rate) thus passing the threshold for RD. Also, while the article didn't exist until this person's death, that does not really speak of WP:SINGLEEVENT, and more just to how many people who do meet the notability threshold for WP slip through the cracks just because they don't happen to be prominent in the fields presently-active Wikipedians care about. Being specifically named in a pretty sizable insider trading prosecution definitely adds another dimension, and he was in a position that arguably gave him more power than a single member of perhaps any country's legislature. So I'm disinclined to put much worry in any 1E concerns; it almost feels as if those citing them as their "oppose" are neglecting to notice the rest of this person's history as a result of this article only cropping up in the past 24 hours. Nottheking (talk) 08:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • No, take out the events from yesterday, and what you are left with is an article that fails WP:N and WP:NBIO. The coverage of his life that has come out after his death is very superficial, and most of it is stuff that is more in conjunction with his function as CEO of UHC, which is not an aspect of notability related to the person themselves but of UHC. I looked myself for sources on him as a person published before the events of yesterday, and there was only weak primary sources (noting him becoming CEO) This is exactly the type of scenario that WP:BLP1E is meant to avoid, where after death there may be some coverage but no indication that the person was notable before death. As I noted in the other nomination, if anything, this is something that should be covered in the UHC article, not a separate article for a weakly notable event and non-notable individual. — Masem (t) 13:05, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Be that as it may, @Masem, your point is not relevant to the discussion here. The requirement for RDs at WP:ITN/DC are 100% met, so this isn't a discussion for this forum. Nfitz (talk) 00:00, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      When an article is created on the person's death, we have in the past questioned if the person was really notable to start with. Otherwise, people could game this to create an article about numerous non notable people that due as part of a news event, and then push them to RD. — Masem (t) 00:20, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      It's fair to examine the question on if they were notable. However, it is not correct to simply assume that they were not notable just because an article did not exist until their death. After all, that assumption also logically extends to the assumption that anyone who doesn't already have a WP article on them must not be notable, which clearly lands into the realm of logical fallacy.
      The failure of Wikipedia's editors to keep up with an unending requirement for exhaustive coverage does not speak anything towards the merit of the subject matter, merely the biases of Wikipedia's editors. Like the numerous biases known present in Wikipedia (which get discussed here all the time, such as how non-English-language locales tend to get ignored) the solution is to attempt to address these bias-related gaps... Not to attempt justification of those gaps. Nottheking (talk) 19:46, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - It seems incredible that a person of this significance and a story of this magnitude would fail BLP1E, but here we are. This is where Wikipedia's rules have the right of it. Duly signed, WaltClipper -(talk) 13:47, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's not a rule, @WaltCip. The (not a ) rule here is that RD's are based on quality - not the person - as long as the article exists. There's no AFD going on, and even a renaming discussion doesn't have consensus. Will the closer please disregard this "vote". As noted above, comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD. Nfitz (talk) 23:52, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Notability is part of an article's quality. — Masem (t) 00:21, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If notability was an issue the article would have been at AFD or another forum. It isn't. Please discuss this in an appropriate forum. Nfitz (talk) 00:33, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There is currently ongoing RFCs about moving or merging the article to "Killing of...", so yes, it is being considered. — Masem (t) 13:10, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As long as there is an ongoing RFC on whether this person merits a separate article, this article should not be up for consideration for ITN/RD. Duly signed, WaltClipper -(talk) 14:46, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, very obviously a topic of significance receiving international coverage. Morgan695 (talk) 17:28, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD The death itself is notable, as the assassination of a CEO is unusual. The article is of sufficient quality for ITN. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 03:25, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's remarkable that Brian Thompson (disambiguation) and Brian Thompson got high traffic yesterday -- more than Elon Musk or Michel Barnier. This shows that lots of readers are looking for the topic and having trouble finding it. ITN's primary purpose is To help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news. As the name is common, putting it in RD without any prose seems inadequate and so a blurb would be appropriate. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:57, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • We need to keep in mind around all of this that this is the type of sensationalist journalism that we should not be trying to promote on WP as an encyclopedia. For the mainstream media, it is clearly a story that is driving them clicks, and its being heavily discussed on social media (not necessarily in good ways), but from the standpoint of an actual encyclopedic-level event, it so far has very little impact on the larger picture. This is the type of bias we have to be very cautious of falling for. One person, who was not notable, was killed by another person, who was not notable before all this, which most of the time would have been buried to local news. But because this happened in NYC in broad daylight, and that the person that was killed was head of a company that numerous people want to hate, its blown up to this big story. Type of stuff that if this had happened before the Internet, we'd probably never would have covered. --Masem (t) 13:17, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Pretty much what Masem said; the story doesn't have legs. No long-term significance to speak of, in contrast to something such as the Sandy Hook shootings, the reverberations of which are still felt to this day. Duly signed, WaltClipper -(talk) 14:48, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There could be implications in the future (what social media cheering on is this form of vigilante justice against anti-consumer corporations, and I would not be surpised if we similar incidents) but that's a huge CRYSTAL that we shouldn't be using to claim importance on WP. The event can be documented, but that doesn't make it ITN. And to add to this, to try to stretch what little pre-death coverage there was for the bio article, there's BLP problems now with it (the whole controversies section is more a corporate matter than him as a person), which is not appropriate at all. This is a prime example of how bad we are nowadays around NOTNEWS and dealing with such matters. — Masem (t) 14:53, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I disagree with this Type of stuff that if this had happened before the Internet, we'd probably never would have covered. The killing of a CEO of a major company in broad daylight would always been a big story, even in 1980. Also, just because it "would not have been notable in 1980" does not mean that it is not notable in 2024. GNG is clearly met due to the media coverage surrounding the person's killing (and the current search for the perpetrator). Natg 19 (talk) 18:16, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    A burst of news coverage, of which this still is, is not sufficient for notability per GNG and NEVENT. There is no indication of enduring coverage. Same applies to BLP, which is why BLP1E exists.
    And keep in mind, we are seeing the impacts of 24/7 news coverage (which didn't exist before the internet) and the aspect that social media attention is keeping this as a high-priority story for the media. The amount of coverage about Thompson and the impact on UHC is surprisingly small compared to the coverage of the manhunt for the suspect. Masem (t) 18:41, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If you (or WaltCip) feel so strongly about this, feel free to nominate this article at AfD. Currently, this article is well-cited and is solidly written, which meets the standards at RD. ITN is not for arguing for or against an RD's notability. Notability discussions should occur at the appropriate venues. Natg 19 (talk) 19:03, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The RD requirements as laid out in the ITN guidelines are met. Opposing for WP:GNG reasons is trying to litigate the merge discussion on the article's talk page through its ITN nom. It behooves noting that at the present time, there are 40 votes opposed to merging and only 19 votes in favour - the anti-notability argument is a minority view which is far from consensus, and trying to "win" the discussion here in defiance of consensus is shortcutting the process. If an admin DOES take the underlying WP:GNG argument into account, they should look at the discussion holistically, including reading the entire merge proposal discussion on the article's talk page. If the oppose votes outnumber the support votes here, that gives a false impression because there is an emerging consensus that he is sufficiently notable for his own article (and in turn, for RD so long as quality requirements are met). FlipandFlopped 16:21, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The article is now expanded and suitable for RD. This seems like a case where a notable death brings light on an individual that arguably met the notability standards beforehand, given the pre-killing sources available. -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 17:29, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. Per Masem, this is clearly WP:BLP1E territory, but per Flipandflopped, this is not the appropriate venue to be considering notability. Andrew Davidson made the good point that ITN's purpose is to allow people to find information they may have seen in the news on Wikipedia. This isn't the place to be debating whether his death should be in the news. Rather, we should be taking what is in the news and directing users to its location on Wikipedia. /home/gracen/ (yell at me here) 23:58, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I don't think this is clearly a BLP1E situation, at least to the point of meriting RD exclusion. DarkSide830 (talk) 04:10, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted This person has an article that's well developed and is clear of any issues. It hasn't been taken to AfD. Therefore, it's eligible for RD. Schwede66 21:16, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There is a controversy section that is a BLP violation as I noted above, and there are merge discussions on the talk page (which is equivalent to AFD), so this was a bad posting. Masem (t) 21:24, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi there, Masem. Not sure whether you wanted me to see your post, but if the answer is yes, please note that I don't have this page on my watchlist. Hence, you'd need to ping me. Either way, I'm working my way up this page now, and the next RD will push Thompson off the main page. Schwede66 22:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Chiung Yao

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Article: Chiung Yao (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News, TVBS
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Taiwanese romance novelist. 240F:7A:6253:1:1945:DA90:79BF:B3FA (talk) 11:32, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think "suicide" qualifies to many here as a "newsworthy death" (and many are opposed to death blurbs in general except in rare cases). Natg 19 (talk) 03:34, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Her suicide sparked significant discussion about euthanasia in Taiwan and China, potentially making it a noteworthy event. However, there is no need to use a blurb, as it lacks substantial international recognition compared to other events during this eventful winter. Free ori (talk) 05:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

December 3

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections