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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/October 2024

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October 13

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October 13, 2024 (2024-10-13) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) RD: Donald J. Hall

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Article: Donald J. Hall Sr. (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): KSHB
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Well-known Hallmark executive. --Engineerchange (talk) 15:08, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support The article meets our minimum editorial standards... all of its claims are cited by reputable sources, even if "just local ones and Forbes". Whether he is majorly noteworthy beyond the local level is not relevant for discussion here, because this is not the place to take up a WP:GNG fight. Barring the article being nominated at AFD (which I think would resolve in a snow close anyways per Masem), this should be posted. FlipandFlopped ツ 03:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Brush up on WP:BIO, local sources don't count as major reputable sources. They need something with a circulation beyond one metro area. General rule of thumb is they need to be on the perennial reliable sources list. Scuba 21:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted – Schwede66 20:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) New marathon world record for women

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Article: Ruth Chepng'etich (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In women's marathon, Ruth Chepng'etich (pictured) sets a new world record with a time of 2:09:56 to become the first woman to break the 2:10 barriers. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Kenyan Ruth Chepng'etich breaks the women's marathon world record at the Chicago Marathon.
News source(s): BBC, CNN
Credits:

UCinternational (talk) 11:15, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support broke it by a considerable margin. Scuba 15:14, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is a huge milestone in women's sports. Rager7 (talk) 21:28, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per above. Rynoip (talk) 21:49, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The ALT blurb is similar to the format used for the last 2013 posting.—Bagumba (talk) 04:03, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support altblurb. Breaking a major world record, and the linked article is of good quality. -insert valid name here- (talk) 01:06, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, major record. BilboBeggins (talk) 18:43, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support altblurb Dosen't happen every day, and happened at a pretty big event. Normalman101 (talk) 00:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Donal Murray

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Article: Donal Murray (bishop) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Irish Examiner
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Irish Roman Catholic prelate. 139.164.154.34 (talk) 07:12, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Starship Flight 5

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Article: Starship flight test 5 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ SpaceX successfully catches the Super Heavy booster on the launchpad during Starship flight 5. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, CNN, Reuters
Credits:

One of the most tremendous engineering feats in all of history, and one of the most amazing and incredible spaceflights ever. It's hard to understate just how significant this is for the future of space exploration. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:41, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, I wonder if there is a way to collapse groups of table rows into significant milestone fold outs. Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:09, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is more a case to just cut it down to a few key points into prose, like the time it launched, the time it was caught, etc, those noted by independent sources. — Masem (t) 16:22, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There should be a separation between Elon Musk's statement and SpaceX's actions. In this case, this is objectively a new milestone in spaceflight because this demostrated that both of the rocket's stages can be reused, making the entirety of the rocket reusable, and is a prime goal of the Starship development program. WhatisMars (talk) 16:10, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A new milestone would be sending someone to Mars. I'd support ITN for that. Nigej (talk) 17:44, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That goes without saying, but we have three Nobel prize winners in ITN, an event that happens without fail every single year and isn't especially newsworthy. It's also something that basically no news media agencies cover. It's clear that the bar for getting into ITN is exceedingly low. Ergzay (talk) 21:17, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In what nation, User:Ergzay, do the media not cover the Nobels? The news has been full of it lately around here watching local and international channels - the local papers too. Nfitz (talk) 22:34, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
America for one. Google searching for just "nobel prize" I find some minor articles buried. Whereas this spaceX landing is listed as a top news item on both CNN, and Fox News on their front pages, neither of which mentions any nobel prizes. Also I'd note that each nobel prize award got its own separate entry rather than simply combining them. Most of the ITN section is now about nobel prizes. Ergzay (talk) 22:45, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which part of Americas? I see articles from Canada, the USA, and Brazil. one, two, three. Lots of other examples in each nomination as well. Nfitz (talk) 23:32, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Articles exist, my point was they are not prominent. But anyway, Nobel Prizes have a special exception to the normal rules for ITN content. So even if they wouldn't normally be posted they're posted anyway. Ergzay (talk) 01:18, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's proof of concept for a more efficient space program. So what? It's no more ITN worthy than every last incremental press-release-worthy improvement out there, whether in controlled fusion, desert reclamation, particle colliders, quantum computing, skyscraper building, telescope power, dark matter detection, and so on and so on. The same level of technological breakthrough would have justified at least two dozen James Webb Space Telescope ITN postings and at least one or two a year ongoing improvements to the various gravitational wave telescopes out there. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 16:41, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You describe small incremental changes yet dismiss this as only a small incremental improvement when it's unprecedented in the history of spaceflight. Minor discoveries by JWST which are a dime a dozen is not this. Ergzay (talk) 21:08, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I was not talking about minor discoveries by JWST (which, by the way, has a good number of major discoveries to boot). I am talking about the astonishing engineering breakthroughs needed to get the JWST to work. The cryocooler, the gold-coated beryllium mirrors, the five layer sunshield, all were completely unprecedented. And LIGO's custom giant mirrors, quantum squeezing, ultra precise lasers, and so much more, have all have been major triumphs of cutting edge physics and engineering. But as they can't be boiled down to a geewhiz video, they are easy to disparage by someone who thinks I was just talking about "minor discoveries". I wasn't. Every one of those developments, and dozens more, in those two projects alone (and across numerous technologies that I gave a very very short list) has been unprecedented and utterly astonishing. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 21:31, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure what you're getting at here. There will never be a time in history, other than today, where the first stage of a rocket booster is caught for the initial first time. Also, JWST was blurbed when it launched, and when it delivered its first imagery. Kcmastrpc (talk) 21:39, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What was astonishing about JWST was not its engineering breakthroughs but how much it cost. Cryocoolers are standard things that exist in industry, gold plating of metals is also nothing special, the sunshield was made of mylar a common material. So no, nothing there is unprecedented. Ergzay (talk) 22:19, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think the point they were getting at was more: right, now how many of those have been stuffed in a rocket, sent up to L2, then unfolded by computer control, and the instruments incl. mirror cooled and kept at 40 K? Then started snapping pics? In fact one instrument has to be kept at 7 K. Note beryllium is quite brittle, and the mirror itself had to be unfolded! Also the shield has to help keep the stuff that way not only from the Sun but the Earth and Moon which are still much hotter and radiate lots of photons that heat the scope. (Crash thermo 101 review heat goes hotter -> colder also energy = conserved, always has to go somewhere) Note also vacuum is a perfect insulator (think Thermos) so the cryo has to work by boiling off coolant into space, to exhaust the heat somewhere, no air to convect heat away. (All space tin cans w/ onboard bipedal monkeys have to too, ISS uses ammonia)

    For a little perspective: Total lifetime JWST cost projection: $9.7 bil in 2021$, adj to 2023$: $10.8 billion. Using {{inflation}}, nothin up my sleeve here. A smidge >1% of yearly US military spending in 2023 (and/or Medicare, which is slightly higher). (Take note of how often in discourse "cost" is invoked for things like science, vs how often for The Troops™ or for cops) ~3% 2023 US spending on "non-alcoholic drinks" ($328 bil, source internets). Not tap water, this is all drinks sold @ retail excl. booze. (Imagine putting a 1% soda tax on sugared drinks only—things that are not only completely unnecessary but actively terrible for public health—for health & science research! Let's not even get started on booze) .04% 2022 US GDP. Slowking Man (talk) 17:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There is a reason JWST cost such an incredible amount (and was delayed for such a long long time). Multiple engineering breakthroughs that had to be discovered, tested, developed, invented, and then tested again. (And again and again because it was space.) The MIRI cryocooler had to get down to single digit kelvins. It uses an incredible thermoacoustic system custom invented for JWST, not some off-the-shelf industry standard. The mirrors were made out of beryllium (not standard) and then gold plated (yes, atomic vapor plating is standard) to an incredible precision (not stanard), and then aligned and adjusted after deployment (extremely not standard). The sunshield was a tennis court sized five layer shield, specially coated, specially spaced, so that excess heat would be steered out the gaps, and then it had to be folded up before launch and unfolded just so after launch. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 18:12, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We've had cryocoolers that do way below single digit kelvins for many decades. (There's black and white videos of liquified helium from way back.) Casting/machining things out of beryllium has been done before. Precision of machining is based on your tools so that is also standard. You're arguing that the spacing of a piece of metalized plastic is an engineering breakthrough? It didn't even have to be precise (that's why the spaces were visibly large to make up for the creases/crinkles in the material). Ergzay (talk) 12:46, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    (This is going off into sidetrack but space is a much more hostile environment from a nice comfortable lab, everything has to withstand launch stresses, the "cold soak" and often constant warming-cooling cycles, radiation (how many labs are located entirely at the business end of a running particle accelerator), as-hard-as-it-gets vacuum. Also you would like to be able to point the scope at diff things, also also want to minimize vibrations (will mess up observations). On JWST they used a gyro w/out moving parts b/c Hubble's kept wearing out and failing. Also all needs to be light as possible, launching mass costs $$$ but still mounted on a single structure that can bear all load stresses --Slowking Man (talk) 16:53, 15 October 2024 (UTC))[reply]
    Gyros without moving parts have been standard parts on aircraft and personal electronics for many decades before JWST chose to adopt them. Ergzay (talk) 18:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I never said they weren't—I was contrasting w/ Hubble, which did use mech gyros (I think like six or eight?), which wore out and needed servicing missions (which themselves aren't free), to illustrate one contributing factor to costs. And the scope needs a bit more precision than that from a laser ring gyroscope in a large aircraft. Positioning error adds up a bit over say, 10 billion light-years. Also it sounds like the JWST gyro is a single pt of failure? Guessing the tolerances and testing on that were very intensive (again, adds to cost, but if your gyro breaks and your billion $ scope becomes quite a bit less useful... Slowking Man (talk) 01:53, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And to boot, the MIRI cryocooler is intended to last at least five years, and preferably twenty or so, without human or even robot intervention. All in all, User:Ergzay, your comments are simply nuisance and noise, focusing on things well-known and dead-easy that had to be re-imagined and redeveloped in order to be used on the JWST, and then pointing out the completely obvious well-known dead-easy parts and pretending there was no need for actual breakthroughs to go beyond what was already known. One as might as well say this launch was no big deal because heck, I once caught a toy rocket using a butterfly net as a kid. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 18:48, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Major breakthrough with the booster catch (a first). Huge step forwards towards fully reusable rockets. 174.112.0.237 (talk) 17:26, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Needs work As an engineering milestone, it's more impressive than Boeing's Starliner snafu. But the article's lead devotes most of its space to a spat with the FAA and seems to need re-balancing now. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:16, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: not sure why every single advancement in spaceflight needs to be blurbed. 128.91.40.237 said it best.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 18:57, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is not just a "advancement". It's a landmark event in the history of spaceflight. Ergzay (talk) 21:05, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Semantics. And WP:PUFFERY. And WP:BLUDGEON. The most generous description by the New York Times is "a feat of technical wizardry". CNN's highest praise was "its most ambitious Starship test flight yet". Associated Press called it an "engineering feat" and "boldest test flight yet". Reuters called it "another novel engineering feat". These are descriptions worthy of DYK, not ITN.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 00:31, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's a cringe statement. 130.245.192.6 (talk) 02:13, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm sorry, I'm not following. Are you arguing that because the media is hyping it too much that that somehow makes ineligible for inclusion in the ITN section? If so I really don't understand the purpose of the ITN section. Is it not supposed to cover things that are notable and "in the news"? I cannot find your criteria anywhere in the ITN rules. Ergzay (talk) 12:46, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am saying that it is one remarkable step among many on a long path, but it gets ridiculously disproportionate hype, between "space" and "Musk". The press release hype does not belong in this discussion, but it's what we get right from the beginning: "One of the most tremendous engineering feats in all of history" from the nominator. Rank balderdash. "This will be in engineering textbooks for decades to come" from the first comment. Silly piffle. But this wildly exaggerated hype is supposed to be a reason to support. Remove it, and you're left with mildly interesting development, whose value will be determined way down the line from now when actually interesting spaceflights occur. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 18:12, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Fully and rapidly reusable rockets would be one of the biggest advances in human history (by making large-scale space access affordable) and the first-ever booster catch is a major step towards that. I'm sure it will be in engineering textbooks decades from now. 174.112.0.237 (talk) 02:11, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The significance of this event has absolutely nothing to do with "Musk". I dislike the man plenty myself (even if I used to like him). This is not "press release hype". It's the widely believed opinion of basically everyone in the industry. And yes it is absolutely one of the most tremendous engineering feats in all of history and hes it absolutely will be in engineering textbooks for years to come. Why would you remove it other than "I don't like it"? Ergzay (talk) 12:40, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, I'm saying that not even these reliable sources are calling this some sort of landmark achievement in science and engineering. I'm saying the media isn't hyping it enough. Most of their descriptions are essentially "whoa this is neat".  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 20:09, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think your own source stating "a feat of technical wizardy" is a bit beyond "whoa this is neat". And necessarily a journalist is not an engineer. Ergzay (talk) 12:37, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It is a bit beyond. But only a bit. It is far far short of the ludicrous, ridiculous, exaggerated hype we are getting here for Support. As in, no it is not "one of the most tremendous engineering feats in all of history". I'll concede maybe in all of 2024. And it will not be in "engineering textbooks" whatsoever, except maybe a photo or something, whatever strikes the textbook publisher's hype department's fancy. For the most obvious of reasons: the textbook is about the basics of the subject. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 18:48, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above Ion.want.uu (talk) 20:15, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment One thing to remember, is that this test program is iterative. On each flight they plan to do a bit more. This is the 5th test flight. We did blurb Starship flight test 1, where both the stage 1 booster and stage 2 Starship spacecraft blew up after launch. The next 3 flights were also nominated. I would have thought that both Starship flight test 3 and Starship flight test 4 would have been possibly significant enough to blurb. In test flight 3, the booster exploded prematurely, but not before releasing the Starship spacecraft which did finally make it to space before exploding on re-entry. In test flight 4 both the booster and spacecraft successfully soft-landed in the ocean. For today's flight, the advances were that the booster sucessfully landed for the first time (with the capture by the launch tower) and the spacecraft soft-landing was more accurate, with less heat damage to the spacecraft. It seems to me that after the flight 1, the first sucessful launch (flight 3) was the most significant, followed by the first successful soft-landings (flight 4). So if those weren't blurbed, this shouldn't be either.
But at the same time, what is the line? The first successful landing on land (or ship) of the Starship spacecraft? The first orbital flight (those so far have been sub-orbital)? The first crewed flight (maybe Polaris-3?)? The first test landing attempt of Starship HLS on the Moon? The first test landing attempt on Mars? The first successful flight to lunar NHRO? The first Artemis 3 propellant flight? The launch of the Artemis 3 Starship HLS? There's many, many steps to this - and that doesn't include the obvious ITN items relating to the crewed portion of Artemis 3 moonshot. Perhaps we should lay out what these steps are in ITN/R so we don't have these last-minute discussions, where many don't appear to be fully aware of what is actually being done, or what the significance of an individual flight is. Nfitz (talk) 21:02, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll also note that many people who oppose these posts don't seem to even understand what is significant int spaceflight and what is insignificant. Like in the previous nomination several people mentioned making it to orbit as being significant and landing Starship being less significant versus that. That showed a clear lack of understanding of the subject matter on what is and what is not significant. Ergzay (talk) 21:14, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's all just so otherworldly. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:29, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speak for yourself. (As in, your comments, while meant to clarify, are borderline personal attacks.) I oppose (strongly). And I also agree this was a spectacular, significant development for spaceflight. But I am not one of those people who think a play-by-play on the ongoing greatest moments in the development of spaceflight is all that ITN-worthy. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 21:38, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No one is arguing for a play-by-play. But if an event happens that has never happened before in history, do you not consider that sufficiently "in the news"? Ergzay (talk) 22:22, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The argument for test flight 2 being blurbed is that because less engines failed, it once again was the most powerful launch. In a program like this, isn't every flight something that has never happened before in history? Tomorrow SpaceX launches the largest interplantery probe ever built; do we blurb that? 2 hours after that SpaceX will land Crew-8 after it's record-breaking 7-month spacelight to the ISS - never before has a 4-person flight (or an American flight) lasted this long. Nfitz (talk) 22:47, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That argument for test flight 2 is a pretty poor one. It's still the same rocket. It gaining some thrust to make it again the most powerful is not notable. The rocket will be making further upgrades in the future to increase thrust further, also not notable. I'm not sufficiently knowledgable to know if you're making a correct statement that Europa Clipper is the largest interplanetary probe ever built. Even if that was the case however, I would not blurb about the launch. I would blurb about its arrival to Jupiter however. As the blurb would focus on the science it will do. It's launch isn't notable until it's actually capable of doing the mission. If a disaster occurred however I would blurb about it. Crew-8 as the number implies is just another crew rotation, nothing notable there. Ergzay (talk) 22:54, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Will landing Starship be significant User:Ergzay? It certainly won't be the first spacecraft to land - they've been doing that since the 1960s. It won't be the first reusable spacecraft to land. And it won't be the first to land on legs. I'd argue that making it to orbit, and the booster landing in this novel way would be more significant. Nfitz (talk) 22:38, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Landing the Starship upper stage would be significant yes, but we're over a year a way from that at least. To make a comparison, it would be at least equivalent to the first landing of the Space Shuttle, though likely even more important than that. There's only one orbital rocket in history that's landed vertically before, Falcon 9, and we definitely put that in the news section (assuming we had that section back then).
Making it to orbit is not at all significant, almost to the point of irrelevance. The vehicle already has the performance to do so. They've simply been refraining from doing so. I would oppose any attempt to put an in the news segment for a Starship reaching orbit, similarly for it releasing its first payload into orbit. The notable events coming up that I see deserving of being in this section is, this grab with the chopsticks, a future grab with the chopsticks of the Starship upper stage, the first landing on the moon of Starship, and the first landing on the moon with humans. Ergzay (talk) 22:50, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
IMO the first ship landing will be notable, first manned flight will be notable, first HLS lunar landing will be notable, of course the Artemis missions will be, and if the unmanned Mars missions go ahead in 2 years I could see that meeting the threshold PrecariousWorlds (talk) 04:51, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've not opposed this, User:Natg 19. I've been discussing it and asking questions. I've come to the conclusion that this is ITN, and not just another SpaceX test flight. And not just another rocket to land after launch - and this one is absolutely massive, the biggest in history - far more powerful than a Saturn V. And the capture technique is completely novel. Nfitz (talk) 18:13, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for my mischaracterization, struck that. Natg 19 (talk) 21:08, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - We don't need a steady drip feed of updates about this project. The amount of puffery surrounding it is quite unreasonable. The technical achievements are impressive, but attempts to spin each individual test as a revolutionary advance in space flight run rapidly into the field of excessively specific superlatives. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:45, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm sorry but you really do not understand the significance here. This landing was absolutely a revolutionary advancement in spaceflight. There is no "spin" here. It's really evident that there's an overall lack of education on spaceflight matters on the general side of Wikipedia. Nothing like this has ever been achieved in the history of humanity. This is not "puffery". This article is a reasonable post describing the significance. Ergzay (talk) 12:34, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose like all the other partial test flights. As I've commented on the previous nominations, if/when Starship successfully puts a genuine payload into orbit we should post. Not each incremental improvement in the test flights. SpaceX is getting there, which is good for them, but it's not an operating launch vehicle yet. Modest Genius talk 12:18, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    But putting a payload in orbit is NOT significant... This flight was not "incremental". It was revolutionary. I would be against putting the flight where they achieve orbit in ITN because that is not notable. Ergzay (talk) 12:37, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What a bizarre view of significance. You don't think it's important for a orbital launch vehicle to actually launch something useful to orbit? A photogenic booster landing is all very well, but Starship hasn't achieved its purpose yet. It's still a work in progress, and ITN shouldn't post each step of that progress, only when the goal is actually achieved. Modest Genius talk 15:08, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Boeing's Starliner mission ultimately failed, yet we still blurbed the launch. Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:15, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Nonsense. Starliner successfully transported two astronauts to the ISS, at which point it was posted in ITN. That they didn't use the same spacecraft to come down again is irrelevant, especially as that was months later than the nomination. Starship hasn't successfully launched anything yet. Modest Genius talk 15:51, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The significance is that this is a landmark event in the history of spaceflight. A single in-development rocket reaching orbit is a development milestone but not a significant event for history. This catch of a rocket out of midair is something most people thought impossible but was achieved. It's also the largest rocket in history, twice the thrust of the Saturn V rocket that took humans to the moon, yet it's first stage was caught out of mid air. The thing is 9 meters wide and 70 meters long. It's the size of a ~20 story building.
    The rocket is already capable of orbit (it had significant visible fuel reserves left, but shut down early to avoid going into orbit). So reaching orbit is just about reaching a confidence point that they're sure they can get it back out of orbit and not leave the largest ever piece of space debris in orbit and also a regulatory point to be allowed to do so.Ergzay (talk) 12:34, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per support comments above. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:58, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose per all the opposing opinions expressed above. This is just an another nomination of SpaceX flight be touted as the "first time in the history to do (...)". We have already have posted many stories about this company's flights and I don't think we should it anymore unless something really Big happens in the future. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 13:58, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The booster catch is one such "something really big" event and should be posted. 174.112.0.237 (talk) 14:28, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This achievement actually is a really big deal. It's easy to become disillusioned with all the partisan politics surrounding Musk, but the fact is we've witnessed history being made. Reusable large first-stage boosters are the predecessor to putting payloads into space being economical (at scale). We aren't getting off this planet without reusable launch systems. I'd encourage folks to put Musk's politics aside and perhaps read this article. Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:40, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No one is "getting off this planet" ever except maybe to do some dangerous work like research and mining, prob a lot of it on one-way trips. You can already get a good simulation of a place like the Moon or Mars: it's called Antarctica or the ocean floor. For better realism, you must also carry your closed atmosphere around, have a running particle accelerator pointed at you at all times, and rely on only infrequent resupply stuff & no such thing as "emergency evac". Get some nasty trauma, DVT cardiac arrhythmia cancer autoimmune thing mental/psych w/ev yall are handling it w/what you got, no one is coming to rescue you. What's your training look like for "one of your crew develops bipolar type I, tries to take over as dictator and tries to kill anyone who resists"?

And this is still "easy mode" haven't even turned down the grav yet, how do osteoporosis & muscle wasting sound? Go ahead and book a trip to those places no one is stopping you Slowking Man (talk) 17:19, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly how was "history made?" This wasn't the first time a vehicle was propulsively recovered in a vertical landing; after all, SpaceX has done that over 300 times already. (and even that wasn't the first time it was done) It wasn't the first propulsive recovery of a vehicle in the Starship program either; they've accomplished that with the upper stage already. The only way it's a "first" is to heavily qualify it, as the first ever vertical recovery via a method they invented just for this program. This is equivalent to saying "This is the first time anyone has changed the channel on television using my new invention, the 'Fing-longer'."
The claims to Starship being a "big deal" hinge upon its long, long-term claims that it will "Colonize Mars." While that objective would most certainly be newsworthy, this particular accomplishment hardly finishes proving it'll be a success & they have all the difficult steps out of the way... And the overall results of the mission have cast further doubt on that ever happening... So to act like this is "making history" based upon it fulfilling that far-off dream would be premature, and as would posting it to ITN. Nottheking (talk) 20:52, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Starship is a "big deal" because of its extremely low cost of payload to orbit, not that it will eventually assist in colonizing Mars. That cost is estimated in various sources as dropping the cost of payload to orbit by one or two orders of magnitude enabling all manner of things like holidaying in low earth orbit for the price of an expensive cruise and entirely revolutionizing the space economy. Starlink now having 6000+ satellites in orbit is the tip of the iceberg here. And yes if you can get things to orbit cheaply you can go out and explore the moon, Mars and other celestial objects as well for dirt cheap compared to current prices, and maybe eventually colonize Mars. One of the _key_ questions about the entire vehicle though was whether it could be recovered via this completely outlandish recovery system. So yes it's making history. Ergzay (talk) 05:55, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd argue that this is, as you said, a really big story. Scuba 15:20, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support After discussing this I've come to the conclusion that this is ITN, and not just another SpaceX test flight. This rocket is monstrously huge - the biggest ever, far bigger than Saturn V. Making this rocket reusable changes spaceflight forever. And then there's the completely new and incredible way of it landing - being caught in mid-air by something akin to chopsticks, rather than ever touching the ground. There's significant international coverage - it's even on the top of the fold this morning in the biggest national paper here. Nfitz (talk) 18:13, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Theoretically support since this seems like an important accomplishment, but oppose for now since the article's body needs more prose about the flight & the catch. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 19:56, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree on the article needing more improvement I already rewrote the header. The article already existed before the launch so it was mostly dedicated to chronicling events leading up to the launch. Editors welcome. Ergzay (talk) 13:00, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Catching the booster is a very important accomplishment, but the article needs more prose about the actual flight (2 sentences and a table isn't enough). Otherwise, might be a good candidate for ITN
IMO, notable Starship flights for ITN are: first ship catch, first ship to ship prop transfer, HLS demo, Crew Starship. Stoplookin9 Hey there! Send me a message! 02:26, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Successful test flights really aren't especially ITN-noteworthy. Apollo 9 was an extremely important test flight in the lunar program, but it was not the Moon landing -- in fact, it didn't even leave Earth orbit, let alone go to the Moon. Similarly, we should have care to address an iterative program such as Starship based on the actual landmark achievements and not the technical ones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WaltCip (talk • contribs) 14:40, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. People opposing this are failing to understand the significance of this flight. This is the largest and most ambitious rocket ever flown, and if it works as intended it will completely revolutionize spaceflight and even humanity as a whole. This flight basically validated the design of the rocket and provided us with one of the most impressive feats of engineering ever seen. Agile Jello (talk) 16:48, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • You said it yourself: if it works as intended. Whether it ever will is something there's been legitimate doubt about, (Elon Musk has already confessed that the payload claims are out of reach, and it appears on top of carrying less than Falcon Heavy, it's slower & more expensive too) so celebrating it as the success now would be premature. If it actually makes a successful orbital mission & turnaround that proves those lofty claims as anything more than hypberbole? Then yes, that'd actually merit being newsworthy. Nottheking (talk) 20:30, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Elon Musk did not confess that the payload claims were out of reach. And no reputable source has ever claimed it will carry less than Falcon Heavy. The "if" in the previous poster's claim was talking in the past tense before this flight happened as this flight validated the design of the first stage enabling at least partial reuse.
      And as I've already explained elsewhere, the vehicle is already capable of making a successful orbital mission, they've just elected to not enter orbit (a couple of meters per second shy of it) for safety reasons as the design is fleshed out. Making orbit would not be more notable/in the news versus this mid-air rocket catch feat.Ergzay (talk) 06:07, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Another few months, yet another incremental Starship test flight that goes a bit further than the one before. It became the general consensus that posting IFT-1 had been a mistaken, and IFT-2, IFT-3, and IFT-4 weren't posted.
SpaceX is taking a highly iterative development strategy here, which means that every few months we have another flight, that often (but not always) manages to bag a "first," and the company's marketing arm milks it. While impressive, catching a booster (while the upper stage still experienced the burn-through that marred IFT-4 while being too heavy to carry an actual payload) was visually impressive, it was pretty small in the big picture of things. Most push to highlight efforts here aren't based upon actual achievements, but by highlighting the lofty promises of what it might do in the future. This wasn't landing a person on Mars; this was like step 5 in a 10,000-step road to that.
That's the big takeaway here: the overall calculus/state of Starship isn't changed by the result of this uncrewed test. To put this in ITN would be basically to make ITN a "ticker" for Starship. Nottheking (talk) 20:40, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nonsense. This mid-air catch absolutely changed the overall calculus/sate of Starship. Yes SpaceX is taking an iterative development strategy, but that doesn't mean you can simply ignore every single thing that happens along the way until you reach a random mundane "Starship delivered a payload to orbit". You choose to ignore all the major news items and instead focus on the mundane in the hopes maybe that that too will be avoided from being put into ITN.
And yes landing a person on Mars would be certainly ITN, but there's many other events in spaceflight history that also are relevant to being ITN. Up thread they're even celebrating the launch of a spacecraft, something relatively mundane and everyday. Ergzay (talk) 06:12, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What changed? For the past few years, their plan has been to do exactly this as one single element in their overall system. They succeeded in completing one single step in something that will require a lot of other steps that "have never been done before" in order to actually accomplish its objectives. For instance, no one has ever transferred cryogenic propellants in deep space, or even used a cryogenic propulsion system more than about a week post-launch. (e.g, all long-duration rocket stages have been either solid or hypergolic propellant)
Most "support" !votes have boiled down to claiming this has "changed the game," in spite the fact that for SpaceX, this is just a natural continuation of the game plan they've been following for at least the better part of a decade. So your claim that the "overall calculus/state" was "absolutely changed." The most that could be really said there is that... It didn't fall further behind schedule?
Also trying to compare this to the launch of an outer-planet probe (something that has only happened 11 times in history, and about twice a decade) is uninformed at best, (and one others have used disingenuously) because it just plain doesn't match up. That's akin to calling the completion of a new "world's tallest building" (something that happens every few years or so) just "you completed a structure; that happens every day."
So again, what changed? I don't see any real arguments beyond superlatives over how this is a "first," and nothing on the ramifications. Nottheking (talk) 22:24, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The what changed is they achieved something most people thought was impossible or a wild-eyed rant by Elon Musk when he first proposed it. I myself thought that this was a fanciful idea and debated exactly this on places like Reddit. I thought they would fall back on some kind of normal landing system just as they fell back on many other design concepts. I was sure there was going to be an impressive explosion with significant pad damage. Instead they literally caught a rocket falling through the sky out of midair with massive articulating arms, all broadcasted live, and they made it look easy. The only people who really seemed to believe it was possible were the hardcore Elon Musk zealots who believe anything the man says. (I can bring up sources of well known respected industry experts doubting it if you'd like.) Propellant transfer is an impressively difficult problem but it's not the level of magic and observableness that this mid-air catch of a rocket was. As to your 11 times in history, there's only been 5 starship launches in history and less successes, and if you arbitrarily limit the criteria sufficiently everything becomes a unique event. Outer solar system vs inner solar system probes only really differ in the time they take to get there via successive gravitational slingshots.Ergzay (talk) 00:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support; I usually scoff at these Starship noms, but this IS a fairly massive step towards making reusable rockets a reality. DarkSide830 (talk) 05:15, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. It's better to look at the aerospace organizations' statement about the flight: AIAA Statement on Fifth SpaceX Starship Test Flight (American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics) and NSS Praises Fifth Test Flight of SpaceX Starship (National Space Society). Based on these statements, it is clear that IFT-5 is a transformative event in spaceflight. Most of the opposes here are made from uninformed editors that are blinded by the hate towards SpaceX and using their power and votes to keep this discussion round and round and round until it's too late to put it on in the news. 130.245.192.6 (talk) 18:20, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is a strategy that I've paid attention too during other test flights of Starship. I noticed that when talking about Starship, other editors use lingos such as "scoff", "yet another", and "aren't especially ITN-noteworthy", whereas for other non-SpaceX launches, the words are much more meadow and polite. It might be editors are blocking Starship news towards in the news section is a way for them to vent the hate towards SpaceX, towards Elon, and somehow this will make them feel better as a result. But it is important to separate SpaceX and Elon, and Starship and Elon.
    This test flight is important because it will signal that new rockets that is designed full reusability in mind is practical and competitive on the market. Starship to spaceflight is like the HMS Dreadnought to the navy in the 20th century. Pre-dreadnought and Dreadnought, Expendable and Reusable launch vehicle. 130.245.192.6 (talk) 18:30, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Pinging all opposed editors: @Nigej, @Bait30, @Natg 19, @GenevieveDEon, @Modest Genius, @PrinceofPunjab, @WaltCip, @Nottheking. I don't like doing this, but I felt that statements from established aerospace organizations might make you reconsider your position that this is a "trivial" test flight. 130.245.192.6 (talk) 18:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not in the slightest. Of course organisations dedicated to rocketry and spaceflight paid attention to this launch. I would be astounded if they didn't. That doesn't make it any more or less suitable for ITN. I also strongly dislike the accusation of bad faith above - we're all expressing our sincere opinions. See WP:AGF and don't hound users who disagree with you. For what it's worth, I think the support !votes have been sensationalist and buying into hype. Modest Genius talk 18:47, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I cannot assume good faith when people say things like:
    • The same level of technological breakthrough would have justified at least two dozen James Webb Space Telescope ITN postings and at least one or two a year ongoing improvements to the various gravitational wave telescopes out there.
    • Semantics. And WP:PUFFERY. And WP:BLUDGEON.
    • To put this in ITN would be basically to make ITN a "ticker" for Starship.
    • Most if not all of these test flights are testing new capabilities, as SpaceX works on a software-style iterative process, so they may be "firsts", but don't feel they are especially significant. When Starship gets to the moon, that is newsworthy as a new moon landing. For now, this is just a cool feat.
    when the Europa Clipper launch is not subjected towards that level of scrunity. Bad faith is obvious and can be seen. You will not say these things if you are talking to people in real life. 130.245.192.6 (talk) 18:56, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • Nobody (especially myself) said anything that could possibly be interpreted as technological engineering breakthroughs needed to get JWST and LIGO on-board were ITN-worthy, again and again and again. I was objecting to the ridiculous hype surrounding the launch's achievement. Such hype was then used as a basis for ITN-support. And I also strongly object to the completely uncalled for personal attacks coming from some supporters here, who seem to think that the opposition just has to be based on some kind of space-program ignorance. For the record, I grew up with the Apollo program, I watched Neil Armstrong take his small step/giant leap live on TV, I had endless model rockets and space posters and all. (Heck, I was also an eyewitness who saw Solo shoot first!) Career-wise I've alternated between academia and industry, including one stint working for NASA as a bona fide rocket scientist. So I've seen quite a few engineering breakthroughs in the space program, just none that were as photogenic or as easy for the non-involved (aka ignorant masses) to comprehend as the Starship catch. 128.91.40.237 (talk) 15:46, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Also Not in the slightest. This is a test flight with some success. As noted below, the article itself is also not up to standard. Wasn't there some damage? Let's have a nomination when something really significant happens, not just a gee-wizz we've caught something in mid air. Nigej (talk) 19:30, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Also not in the slightest. "Established Aerospace organizations" have not been super-sensationalist... And while they were involved, this is a given as it was a spaceflight; those are always a big deal, (even if not ITN) and still don't happen every day.
    The hype has mostly been channeled by the mainstream media, (which is a bit infamous for not understanding a lot of what they talk about, as is quickly evidenced in nearly every press briefing NASA holds...) which has mostly given in to how much SpaceX leans into the PR side of things: SpaceX makes a big deal about it, with a lot of noise, and pressures news organizations to give them a lot of free press over it. It's how the company (like all other "tech-startup" types) have always worked.
    Also worth noting that most of the "support" !votes have been... Largely just conveying the same hype, without any objective analysis of the facts. For instance, no one's mentioned the serious anomaly suffered by the upper stage, which had a mission to test fixes to the TPS burnthrough that resulted in the partial failure of IFT-4. (as a refresher, the heat shield proved insufficient to keep an upper flap from partly melting, resulting in IFT-4's touchdown being several kilometers off-target; however while IFT-5's upper stage managed to touch down )It's been telling that a lot of the messaging from SpaceX is to retroactively imply that there was zero importance to the outcome of the upper stage, which is a tactic they've done after... Well, almost every single partial/full failure. (e.g, the complete failure of IFT-1 due to an improper launch facility was handwaved as a "we meant that" even though it rendered a test that cost them several hundred million dollars pointless)
    And it's not going to be alone. Ostensibly IFT-6 will come along, (probably sometime early 2025) and it will very likely do something that is also in the "never actually been done before" category. And SpaceX & the mainstream media will hype it up as a huge "game changer," even though again, it will... Just affirm the same game plan SpaceX has been following (if behind-schedule) for around 7 years now. And a lot of people buying into that hype will argue that it's unfair to not consider it "major history being made" when it gets nominated for ITN as well. Because this is how it played out four prior times already.
    So from an objective standpoint, it's a single, iterative step forward; it's one step down, 10,000 or so to go. Was it cool to look at and makes for a jaw-dropping 10-second clip? Sure, but that's not "ITN," that's "trends on social media." Considering that ITN would be on the same level of covering social media fallout from a scandal like the Mr. McMahon documentary or the Pokémon leak. Or even (to go with an analogy used a few times around here) like asserting that each new Beta test for a wildly new version of Windows launches, and not just the final product releasing.
    It's also worth noting that I'm writing this because... Someone opted to ping everyone they disagreed with to imply an accusation of bad faith. Not the most resounding position to ground an attempted educational, scholarly debate over; again, that's more social media/reality TY-esque sensationalism, and in that form almost a form of ad hominem. Nottheking (talk) 22:14, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    They didn't just imply bad faith, they straight up accused it lol. I cannot assume good faith and Bad faith is obvious and can be seen.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 01:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not in the slightest, sorry. My opposition rationale is unchanged. In fact, I think my Apollo 9 comparison might have been overly generous. This is closer to the unmanned Apollo tests like AS-201. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:22, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Incidentally, pinging me to get me to change my !vote and thereafter accusing me of bad faith is not necessarily against Wikipedia policy - however, it's a shockingly poor persuasion tactic. Imagine walking into Starbucks demanding a free coffee and then calling the barista a loser and an idiot before they've even said yes or no. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am not changing my vote because what I said above is my own personal opinion. In fact, I am now changing it to strongly oppose. I also don't appreciate you pinging all the opposing votes. Here, in the ITN/C, we respect everyone's opinion. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. You are not assuming good faith. You and a couple of other editors are accusing every opposing user of either being Elon haters or not knowing anything about space. That is not a good attitude to have when trying to convince someone to agree with you. What you should have done was have the article mention what you think makes it that impactful and significant as you claim it is. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:48, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Admin comment) I'm surprised to find that the pertinent prose in the target article is unreferenced. Schwede66 19:04, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Glad someone finally noted that. I had been agruing about that for a long time, but the "chief editor" of this article opposes and ignores 47.67.225.78 (talk) 08:45, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose per Blaylockjam10. I waited for a bit before voting because I was hoping the article would be a bit more developed by now, still seems relatively the same. I will support it if the article improves. Very impressive catch nonetheless. Hungry403 (talk) 21:26, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the first catch of the booster for a fully reusable rocket system and the first on target deorbit of it's upper stage are incredibly consequential events in human history, let alone qualifying as news. The idea that a marathon being record broken is more significant news than this is absurd. TaqPCR (talk) 02:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per nottheking and Modest Genius. Every successful SpaceX test launch is of course impressive and will inevitably be commended with praise, but we are not a personal SpaceX updates ticker operating on behalf of Elon Musk. We can post when all of these test launches add up to a more finalized product... a more major landmark event. I also note that I am disappointed in the wonton nature in which some are accusing other editors of bad faith simply for expressing skepticism about posting individual test flights in principle. Please, please stick to WP:AGF. FlipandFlopped ツ 03:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This flight was not "every successful SpaceX test launch". I did not participate in previous Starship ITN discussions (other than flight 4 discussion which was the first successful landing, but did push my opinion very hard). If there was actual risk of us becoming a SpaceX updates ticker then sure I would agree with you, but only the very first flight, a year and a half ago which was a pretty large "failure", actually got an entry. So we're already going against NPOV by only including launch failures.

    We can post when all of these test launches add up to a more finalized product... a more major landmark event.

    Several people have said something similar to this, but when is that exactly? First orbit is nowhere near as impressive as this landing. As time goes on launches will be come more ho-hum resulting in even more people pushing against their inclusion (just as you just did with the argument that the ITN section shouldn't become a SpaceX updates ticker). First lunar landing? That's several years away.

    I also note that I am disappointed in the wonton nature in which some are accusing other editors of bad faith simply for expressing skepticism about posting individual test flights in principle. Please, please stick to WP:AGF.

    Then don't make arguments that imply that proponents are "operating on behalf of Elon Musk". Ergzay (talk) 18:53, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ergzay, Nowhere in my above comment did I say that any Wikipedia editors are "operating on behalf of Elon Musk". You conveniently cut out the prior part of the sentence where I stated my position in principle that posting individual test launches would render ITN a SpaceX updates ticker, which is something Elon/SpaceX should be operating and not Wikipedia.
Engaging in belligerent, harassing responses to every single oppose voter and continuing to make sweeping accusations of bad faith over an ITN nom is inappropriate. You have made dozens of comments, almost all of which were berating editors with the opposing view. I strongly advise you cease this behaviour and that you do not continue to reply to me, nor to anyone else in this manner, or else this matter will inevitably be escalated to ANI. FlipandFlopped ツ 22:46, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The implication was fully there that by proposing SpaceX launches be in ITN that editors were operating on behalf of Elon Musk. I'll at least admit that you apparently did not think you were implying that. Secondly, responding to oppose posters and trying to educate them is not disallowed here. I am not harassing anyone (though lots of editors are accusing people of harassing them by responding). Nor am I alleging bad faith. I fully believe that they actually believe what they are writing. I'm alleging ignorance on the part of many editors to this dramatic moment of spaceflight history and trying to educate them. If I'm doing that in a way that doesn't perform that very well, well I only have myself to blame. On ANI notices, I've been brought there before and have yet to ever had ANI rule against me. I'm quite good at following just within the rules. Ergzay (talk) 00:23, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No one is saying that responding to comments is "against the rules" or worthy of a block, but it does seem to qualify as WP:BLUDGEONing, which is highly discouraged. Natg 19 (talk) 00:38, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per the dissenting opinions. I don't think every single SpaceX launch needs to be posted on the main page. LiamKorda 04:27, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's only been a single Starship launch on the main page and there hasn't been a Falcon launch on the main page in years. Ergzay (talk) 22:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This discussion is absurd: every major news outlet in the world is running headline stories about this (I'll add The Economist to the long list already shared), yet this prevailing argument seems to be that this is "just another launch" so they shouldn't be doing that? ITN is judged on significance, and catching a 275 ton rocket the size of the Statue of Liberty plummeting to Earth at 4000 km/h with a pair of chopsticks is doubly significant: it's a magnificent feat of engineering in itself, and (as the Economist above states) it clears the final obstacle to access to space that's orders of magnitude cheaper that anything we have today. Subsequent test flights will not be nearly as momentous, in fact the next big event will be when the test flights end and commercial service starts. Jpatokal (talk) 06:01, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Kcmastrpc (talk · contribs) put it well: "There will never be a time in history, other than today, where the first stage of a rocket booster is caught for the initial first time." Ylee (talk) 09:20, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, but work needed -> oppose. The topic is more than newsworthy, but the article has some shortcomings. Apart from the bias described, especially because of the constant use of often dubious YT videos as source, describing what is seem (original research) or what some commentator guesses. Second thought: Now it's too late for a news item, after almost a week has passed. Be quicker with the next flight test, if that achieves similar breakthroughs. 47.67.225.78 (talk) 11:11, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "be quicker" they nominated it the day it launched. TaqPCR (talk) 18:19, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I meant deciding. It still is an open discussion here. 47.67.225.78 (talk) 19:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah and we got a bunch of supports from people who edit articles about technical topics and a bunch of opposes from people who seem to near exclusively update sports articles minus a few who edit sports and politics talking about how it's not notable because it didn't put a payload into orbit. I suppose they got their way, we have yet another successful falcon heavy launch sending Europa clipper on its way and apparently that's more notable even though it's just cruising till 2030. TaqPCR (talk) 21:56, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm glad this discussion wasn't closed early by people who simply didn't want to hear about it. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:30, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Conspiracy theories about the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

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Consensus against posting. --Tone 10:17, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Conspiracy theories about the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Conspiracy theories spread in the aftermath of Hurricanes Helene and Milton. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Hurricane Milton makes landfall in the U.S. state of Florida, followed by conspiracy theories and misinformation.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Violence against recovery workers spreads after Hurricane Milton makes landfall in the U.S. state of Florida.
News source(s): Washington Post, New York Times, Associated Press
Credits:
Now that the storms have subsided, a major topic of national news is the misinformation and conspiracy theories spreading about the hurricanes and the disaster relief. — Dan Leonard (talk • contribs) 06:01, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tsk tsk... trying to influence the weather by organizing a conspiratorial flashmob snowdance... :) -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 07:24, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 12

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October 12, 2024 (2024-10-12) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

RD: Lillian Schwartz

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Article: Lillian Schwartz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ARTnews
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Noted American visual artist. 240F:7A:6253:1:FD73:1B35:1B3F:3F59 (talk) 06:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support besides a lack of ISBN codes for her publications the article looks good and is properly cited. Scuba 21:22, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ka (rapper)

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Article: Ka (rapper) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Pitchfork, The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Rapper and firefighter. Died on the 12th, death was announced today. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 23:14, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose needs citations in discography. Scuba 21:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article appears to be fully cited. toweli (talk) 21:19, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Tylee Craft

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Article: Tylee Craft (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Football player for the University of North Carolina. 240F:7A:6253:1:AD2F:6B55:B4EB:821E (talk) 12:21, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lilly Ledbetter

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Article: Lilly Ledbetter (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American activist who sued Goodyear for gender discrimination. 240F:7A:6253:1:AD2F:6B55:B4EB:821E (talk) 12:21, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is in great shape. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 14:01, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per above. Rynoip (talk) 19:51, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose Three cn tags. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:26, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Appear resolved. —Bagumba (talk) 05:05, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Posted—Bagumba (talk) 05:03, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tito Mboweni

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Article: Tito Mboweni (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): SABC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former financial minister of South Africa. 240F:7A:6253:1:550C:B8BE:A7FB:50AC (talk) 03:16, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose chunks of article aren't sourced. Scuba 14:50, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jackmaster

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Article: Jackmaster (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Real name Jack Revill, Scottish DJ who tragically passed away after complications following a head injury. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:29, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Black Kite, PrinceofPunjab, and Scu ba: I've added it to the article, is it now good enough to have your support votes? Abcmaxx (talk) 08:40, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the ping Support article looks good now. Scuba 21:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article is good to go now. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:28, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Schwede66: added a ref there. Abcmaxx (talk) 01:04, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Baba Siddique

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Article: Baba Siddique (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Economic Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Indian politician.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 19:50, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Soft oppose bad prose, personal life is only a sentence and is uncited. Article needs a touchup before posting. Scuba 21:20, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: G. N. Saibaba

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Article: G. N. Saibaba (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Indian Express
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Professor and human rights activist.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 19:41, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article seems quite good. Rynoip (talk) 21:33, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(RD posted) RD/Blurb: Alex Salmond

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Article: Alex Salmond (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Former first minister of Scotland Alex Salmond (pictured), a prominent figure in the Scottish independence movement, dies at age 69. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former first minister of Scotland Alex Salmond (pictured) dies at the age of 69.
News source(s): The Times, Sky News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
  • Support Woah, this is how I find out? At first glance article seems good to go, I might even suggest to consider a blurb here given his importance in the Scottish independence referendum/movement. The Kip (contribs) 16:51, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now that it's being discussed, support blurb - the Scottish independence referendum was one of Europe's most notable political events in recent memory, and the impact of the movement Salmond sat at the top of was significant across the continent. Easily a transformative figure in British and European politics. The Kip (contribs) 21:42, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What criteria of statehood does it meet? Is it legislatively independent? Does it control territory? Is it a member of international organisations like the European Union or the United Nations? Yes, Scotland is a country. But it is a subnational country. AusLondonder (talk) 06:57, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"subnational country" is quite the oxymoron RachelTensions (talk) 20:06, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb dare I say he was the most important person in Scottish politics for a while. Scuba 21:27, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 11

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October 11, 2024 (2024-10-11) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

(Posted) RD: Mike Bullard (comedian)

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Article: Mike Bullard (comedian) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Toronto Star
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Canadian stand-up comic and broadcaster. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:12, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Needs review) RD: Ward Christensen

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Article: Ward Christensen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Ycombinator News, Mastodon
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

The co-founder of the world's first BBS and creator XMODEM was found dead on October 11th. Likely needs additional verification before posting. +++ATH0 Kcmastrpc (talk) 18:10, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article looks okay now to me I think? /me holds up off-hook phone handset in memory \n<CR> --- NO CARRIER
(yes I know that's more IRC) Slowking Man (talk) 18:42, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Article is a stub currently. Rynoip (talk) 21:25, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's really not, there are no stub tags or categories present. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This rolls off INTC today, but I'm not even sure it would make it on the ticker. Sad really, considering he was the co-founder of what could be considered the predecessor of what we all use today to communicate. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:08, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not ready. This is a bio without any biographical detail other than career and death, plus an unreferenced date of birth. Nothing on education, say. This is an example of a stub that manages to exceed the usual character count barrier where we generally assign start class. Schwede66 19:34, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You saw that I removed the DOB on the infobox after you tagged that, but the DOB in the lead wasn't CN-tagged so I overlooked that. I'm not sure why you wouldn't remove that as well instead of drive-by CN tagging after you'd tagged the infobox. He is credited with co-creating the first dial-up BBS, which is covered in the article, which is more than career and death, but I'm sensing an aversion to posting this for some reason and I'm not sure what it is. Either way, dropping it. What a weird hill to die on. Kcmastrpc (talk) 21:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Kcmastrpc, I tagged it so that someone who is interested in the topic can add a reference. You may perceive that as "drive-by tagging" but I see that action as working collaboratively with other editors. And no, I didn’t check the edit history. Schwede66 21:58, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Kiril Marichkov

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Article: Kiril Marichkov (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Bulgarian News Agency: Bulgarian Rock Legend Kiril Marichkov Dies at 79
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bulgarian rock musician. Jaguarnik (talk) 19:49, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Nobel Peace Prize

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Article: Nihon Hidankyo (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Nobel Peace Prize is awarded to the Japanese atomic bomb survivors group, Nihon Hidankyo. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Nobel Peace Prize is awarded to Nihon Hidankyo "for its efforts to achieve a world free of nuclear weapons and for demonstrating, through witness testimony, that nuclear weapons must never be used again".
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Nobel Peace Prize is awarded to the Japanese atomic bomb survivors group Nihon Hidankyo "for its efforts to achieve a world free of nuclear weapons".
News source(s): The Washington Post, The Guardian, Noble Peace Prize press release
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

The winner's article needs expansion as it is currently barely more than a stub. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 09:29, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • The Prize and the Price I didn't see the peace prize covered yet. The story I noticed in the NYT today when browsing was The Price . This gives the latest spend on nuclear weapons by the USA. Perhaps they posted it because of the peace prize or perhaps it's just coincidence.
Anyway, it caught my attention because I wrote about this as Renovation of the nuclear weapon arsenal of the United States back in 2015 when the price tag was about a trillion US$. The figure is now $1.7 trillion and counting. That's partly inflation and partly goofs like a roof at Y-12 being 13 feet out, which cost a mere $540 million. Now the peace prize is about $1 million so let's compare those numbers to put things in proportion:
  • Nobel peace prize = $1,035,000
  • US planned spend on new nukes = $1,700,000,000,000
The ratio between the prize and that planned spend is over a million. That's your tax dollars at work and so it goes. But tell me, which of these stories is more significant...?
Andrew🐉(talk) 12:27, 11 October 2024 (UTC) (edit conflict)[reply]
This isn't about the US doing routine maintenance of it's nuclear arsenal, it's about the Nobel peace prize Scuba 12:46, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The prize was awarded to the group "for its efforts to achieve a world free of nuclear weapons..." The article doesn't explain that these efforts seem to have been fruitless. The other prize winners seem to have concrete achievements so the comparative failure seems to need explanation. Andrew🐉(talk) 15:09, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(The Peace Prize has looooong been a "messaging" thing before all else, given to stuff those who decide who they give the award to, want to hit the +1 like button for. Look up who got the 1973 prize—take an indigestion pill first. Double-bonus: look at which of them gleefully took it, and which one refused it! --Slowking Man (talk) 17:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC))[reply]
Also they gave one to Arafat. 166.198.25.23 (talk) 22:27, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also begin and peres Go figure. that's not relevant.Sportsnut24 (talk) 01:31, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They also gave one to Obama. Scuba 02:01, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Dude it's a nobel peace price, awarded to elderly hiroshima survivors, to say that "nukes are bad". I don't think anyone at the Nobel foundation genuinely thinks it'll abolish the world's nuclear weapons, it's just messaging. Scuba 02:00, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"But tell me, which of these stories is more significant"
So the order is Nobel Peace Prize < Nuclear spending of the US < Some random comet will be visible. Got it. 51.154.145.205 (talk) 17:38, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NOTAFORUM. Ergo this should be closed or removed.Sportsnut24 (talk) 01:27, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Nobuyo Ōyama

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Article: Nobuyo Ōyama (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Japan Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Japanese voice actress known for being the voice of Doraemon and Monokuma. Death occurred on 29 September but news was only released today. Tofusaurus (talk) 05:59, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 10

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October 10, 2024 (2024-10-10) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) RD: Victoria Roshchyna

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Article: Victoria Roshchyna (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): UPI
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Ukrainian journalist who died in Russian captivity. Death reported on October 10. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 13:22, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support no problems with the article at a glance. Rynoip (talk) 21:28, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Fleur Adcock

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Article: Fleur Adcock (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Telegraph
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Noted New Zealand poet. 240F:7A:6253:1:550C:B8BE:A7FB:50AC (talk) 03:16, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Peter Cormack

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Article: Peter Cormack (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC Sport
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former Hibernian, Liverpool and Scotland midfielder. 240F:7A:6253:1:189C:4A1A:9ED4:16C1 (talk) 14:05, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Internet Archive Breach

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There is no consensus to post this. Some oppose it because it's not considered significant enough for ITN. Others oppose it over quality concerns. Indeed, there is an orange tag in the article, and it has a date from 2020. That in itself is a showstopper. Schwede66 23:52, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Internet Archive (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Internet Archive is DDoSed and hacked, resulting in 31 million accounts compromised. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ After a series of DDoS attacks and security breaches, 31 million accounts on the Internet Archive are compromised.
Alternative blurb II: ​ 31 million accounts are compromised on the Internet Archive, after a sequence of attacks and data breaches.
Alternative blurb III: ​ 31 million accounts are compromised on the Internet Archive, after a sequence of attacks and data breaches made by a Palestinian hacker organization.
News source(s): Bleeping Computer Forbes Newsweek Wired
Credits:

Article updated
Very prominent archive known for its archive of webpages and various different digital-based data is attacked and suffers a security breach. NikolaiVektovich (talk) 22:20, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like you're in support of a Wikipedia that's more of a popularity contest than "the sum total of human knowledge". RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 01:17, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not saying it isn't worthy of its own article. But until it has one it shouldn't be featured in itn. –DMartin 06:38, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Statement: IA estimated traffic rank is ~180 (assuming something like that is meant by "world's biggest websites"), which isn't nothing, but is a ways below such sites as Douyin, ok.ru, VK.com, Cricbuzz, Detik.com, and Figma. Asking for curiosity any of those have any past security issues that got ITN blurbed? Not to mention Tsyndicate which...uh apparently per a brief search is controlled by cybercrime/malicious actors and used for malware! And is blocked by things like Google Safe Browsing for that reason! Yet still in top 50 sites globally by traffic! Important WP article missing here for people looking for something to do! (IOW basically what GeorgeMemulous wrote below) --Slowking Man (talk) 17:59, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose In the grand scheme of data breaches, 31 million accounts is not a surprisingly large number and while it may SEEM bad, it's really just hashed passwords which means all that was leaked was usernames and emails. I'll be seeing more spam in my inbox in due time. Also, where's the main article for this? Kline • talk • contribs 02:56, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose And it is not 31 million accounts, but 31 million records, which could be 31 million users but also could consider multiple records per person. Significant difference. Also, 31 million is tiny compared to past breaches which have easily exceeded 100 million. --Masem (t) 03:17, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Interesting. Unusual (why the internet archive), and ofcourse the archive is one of the best websites on the internet ever. Also i dont wanna get accused of trolling or wahtever but this page is such a slog these days, I can bet you 99% of the news here - about elections in Micronesia and the winners of a tourney of horse football - most people not just not care about those, but actively roll their eyes whenever these get posted. This piece of news however is actually fresh and interesting. Kasperquickly (talk) 03:59, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose — 31 million accounts is not significant. ITN is not for interesting facts but significant news. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 05:27, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on significance This is a pretty substantial take down of such a large website. However, I have to oppose on quality as the article on the IA is full of CN tags and has an orange-tagged section as needing an update. I would also oppose ALT3 as it is just factually untrue; the group claiming to have carried out the attack is based in Russia and has never claimed to be Palestinian. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:16, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Murasoli Selvam

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Article: Murasoli Selvam (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hindu
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Prominent newspaper editor of current Tamil Nadu state party-led government Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam. Abishe (talk) 15:51, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ethel Kennedy

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Article: Ethel Kennedy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Wife of Robert F. Kennedy and mother of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. dies at age 96. Davey2116 (talk) 15:46, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Nobel Prize in Literature

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Article: Han Kang (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Nobel Prize in Literature is awarded to Korean writer Han Kang (pictured) for her "intense poetic prose exposing fragility of life". (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Nobel Prize in Literature is awarded to Korean writer Han Kang (pictured) for her "intense poetic prose that confronts historical traumas and exposes the fragility of human life".
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Nobel Prize in Literature is awarded to Korean poet and novelist Han Kang (pictured).
News source(s): The Hindu, The New York Times, Noble Prize press release
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

The winner's article needs some work before it is ready to be posted. Also, I am not sure whether to include her distinction as first Asian female Nobel laureate in Literature in the blurb or not. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 13:38, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Now it is good to go.--ReyHahn (talk) 08:33, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 9

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October 9, 2024 (2024-10-09) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) RD: Leif Segerstam

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Article: Leif Segerstam (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): WFMT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Composer of 371 symphonies, conductor of major opera companies and orchestras worldwide, leading positions in Austria, Germany, Sweden and his native Finland, teacher of notable conductors. - This article was mainly there, even with plenty of sources, only: many of them are in Finnish or Swedish, and all of the many archived ones don't work. I feel that by now we have enough accessible sources. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:53, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lily Ebert

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Article: Lily Ebert (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

No sourcing issues, long enough. Mooonswimmer 01:07, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article looks good Scuba 15:56, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: George Baldock

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Article: George Baldock (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): SDNA
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Football player. Could use some more work on sources. mwwv converse∫edits 20:44, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article looks fine. Scuba 15:57, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In fairness, both were already referenced in the first line of the main prose of the article so I didn't think extra refs in the infobox were required. I've cited it in the infobox now and removed the 'citation needed' tags in any case. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 10:20, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think what Schwede66 meant to write was that the referencing needed fixing there. The two footnotes linked to sources that gave different DoBs. I have taken out "Hugman", which stated "26 January 1993" as the DoB, and replaced with the obituary on The Times, which shows "March 9, 1993", same as the DoB shown in the other existing footnoted sources. --PFHLai (talk) 15:00, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) C/2023 A3 (Tsuchinshan–ATLAS)

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Article: C/2023 A3 (Tsuchinshan–ATLAS) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The bright comet C/2023 A3 (Tsuchinshan–ATLAS) makes its closest approach to Earth on 12 October. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Bright comet C/2023 A3 (Tsuchinshan–ATLAS) is visible to the western sky after sunset on 12 October and onwards.
News source(s): guardianNYTSky & TelescopeBBC
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

The second brightest comet visible from the Earth the last 50 years. It already graced the southern skies the previous weeks, now it makes it closest approach to Earth on 12 October, before emerging in the western sky. --C messier (talk) 19:30, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It won't be really be visible October 12. Wait a few days? Nfitz (talk) 20:59, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until October 12, hopefully this doesn't end up like the 2nd moon where the consensus was to post when it actually entered orbit and then everyone just forgot to nominate it again Scuba 22:05, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was just about to nominate 2024 PT5 and forgot lol High Admiral JMT (talk) 23:20, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I checked the status of 2024 PT5 on that date but there was still no good picture at that time and nothing much more to say. A renomination therefore did not seem sensible. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:05, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comets are unpredictable, but not that unpredictable. It won't vanish in two days and up to now it has been quite predictable. On 12 October it will be quite low in the sky, near Venus, and set early, while the tail curves back to the Sun. After the 14th will be an easy to see object (although the moonlight will interfer). C messier (talk) 04:33, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted to RD) RD: Ratan Tata

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Article: Ratan Tata (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Indian Business magnate (industrialist or tycoon) and philanthropist and former chairman of Tata Group, Ratan Tata dies at the age of 86. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Ratan Tata Highest Indian civilian honours award winner (Padma Bhushan and Padma Vibhushan), and International Honor Awards winner , dies at the age of 86.
News source(s): BBC, Aljazeera, CNN, The New York Times, the GuardianHT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Indian industrialist, philanthropist and former chairman of Tata Group. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 18:30, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't there be a blurb here? 2409:40C0:101E:59D2:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 06:33, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2401:BA80:A30F:5D1C:DCB7:5373:D5BE:66F7 (talk) 16:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Iwao Hakamada

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(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
WP:SNOW close. The Kip (contribs) 00:11, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Iwao Hakamada (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The acquittal of Iwao Hakamada, the world's longest serving death row inmate for more than 45 years, is finalized as Japanese prosecutors decide to not appeal against the verdict in the retrial. (Post)
News source(s): The Associated Press, Nippon TV
Credits:

Note: we also posted the news about him in March 2014. --UCinternational (talk) 13:35, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose dyk not itn Scuba 14:51, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ineligible for DYK. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:59, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - more finalization of a procedure than anything else. I would like to note however a decade later, that in ITN's current environment, his acquittal would likely not even be posted, nor nominated. — Knightoftheswords 19:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Nobel Prize in Chemistry

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Articles: Demis Hassabis (talk · history · tag) and John M. Jumper (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Nobel Prize in Chemistry is awarded jointly to Demis Hassabis and John M. Jumper for their work on protein structure prediction and David Baker for his work on computational protein design. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, The New York Times, Nobel Prize press release
Credits:

One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

All three winners' articles look good enough even though Jumper's article is bit short and they need to be updated. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 10:19, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Lee Wei Ling

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Article: Lee Wei Ling (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/lee-wei-ling-daughter-lee-kuan-yew-dies-aged-69-4667096
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Daughter of Lee Kuan Yew, sister of Lee Hsien Loong (both Prime Ministers of Singapore). There are portions that may still require citations. – robertsky (talk) 00:55, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 8

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October 8, 2024 (2024-10-08) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

Law and crime

Science and technology

RD: Edward Vaughn

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Article: Edward Vaughn (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Michigan Chronicle
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Civil Rights Icon.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:53, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose needs sources. Scuba 23:01, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tim Johnson (South Dakota politician)

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Article: Tim Johnson (South Dakota politician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP, NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American politician, U.S. senator from South Dakota (1997–2015), dies at age 77. Davey2116 (talk) 03:08, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose needs citations. Scuba 23:01, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Pulled) RD: Bernard Tissier de Mallerais

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Article: Bernard Tissier de Mallerais (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Croix
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Dissident Catholic bishop. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:26, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Luis Tiant

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Article: Luis Tiant (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Admittedly, needs a lot of work. Hopefully can be improved by the end of the week, to get listed at RD. Natg 19 (talk) 17:21, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Arie L. Kopelman

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Article: Arie L. Kopelman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): WWD
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Thriley (talk) 17:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Taye Atske Selassie elected President of Ethiopia

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Article: Taye Atske Selassie (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Taye Atske Selassie is elected President of Ethiopia, succeeding Sahle-Work Zewde. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Taye Atske Selassie is appointed President of Ethiopia, succeeding Sahle-Work Zewde.
News source(s): Bloomberg Barron's (AFP)
Credits:

There probably should be an article for the 2024 Ethiopian presidential election. Varavour (talk) 14:20, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Nobel Prize in Physics

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Hopfield (left) and Hinton (right)
Articles: John Hopfield (talk · history · tag) and Geoffrey Hinton (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ John Hopfield and Geoffrey Hinton receive the Nobel Prize in Physics for their inventions that enable machine learning with artificial neural networks. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ John Hopfield and Geoffrey Hinton receive the Nobel Prize in Physics for their research in machine learning with artificial neural networks.
News source(s): The Guardian The New York Times Nobel Prize press release
Credits:

One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Hopfield's article needs some work, but Hinton's article is in good shape. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 10:36, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We even have images now if you want to make it an image blurb.--ReyHahn (talk) 17:45, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support articles look good. Scuba 03:15, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 7

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October 7, 2024 (2024-10-07) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Amaury du Closel

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Article: Amaury du Closel (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Radio France
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

French conductor and composer who will be remembered for promoting the music of composers who were silenced by totalitarian regimes in the 20th century. Stubbish article expanded and referenced more. There could be more detail from the sources found, if someone has the time to add it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:11, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hera mission launch

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Article: Hera (space mission) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The space mission Hera (pictured) launches from Cape Canaveral on 7 October 2024 at 14:52 UTC. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The space mission by ESA, Hera (pictured) launches from Cape Canaveral on 7 October 2024 at 14:52 UTC.
News source(s): [1]
Credits:

A new space probe launched. Rather famous for being the first mission to rendezvous with a binary asteroid. High Admiral JMT (talk) 08:40, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose on quality More references are needed. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 21:40, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Soft oppose This launch should be posted, however, the article in it's current state isn't ready. Scuba 03:47, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Brian Hastings

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Article: Brian Hastings (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Former world record holder Kiwi cricket batter Brian Hastings dies
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Have gone through the article and added missing citations. Looks in decent shape now. Schwede66 21:05, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lore Segal

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Article: Lore Segal (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times, ABC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Austrian-American novelist, teacher and short story writer. 240F:7A:6253:1:4C5F:E789:5E5F:4B18 (talk) 06:43, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Hurricane Milton

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Article: Hurricane Milton (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Hurricane Milton (pictured) is upgraded to a Category 5 hurricane. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Hurricane Milton (pictured) is upgraded to a Category 5 hurricane by the National Hurricane Center.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Hurricane Milton (pictured), one of the fastest-intensifying and most intense Atlantic hurricanes on record, approaches Florida.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Historic evacuations commence in Florida in advance of Hurricane Milton, the most intense Atlantic hurricane since 2005.
News source(s): [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8]
Credits:

This Hurricane has had incredible effects on the southern United States already, it's already a category 5 hurricane and has caused mass evacuations so far. It is as strong as Hurricane Dean, and is currently the dominating the reporting in the US. It is an important historical event that is occurring. Des Vallee (talk) 23:01, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wait as per usual we wait to see what the impact is, not before it makes landfall. It has a good chance to be posted after that. Masem (t) 23:16, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • To add, the reason we wait for landfall is that the coverage of damage itself needs to be established as to make sure the quality of the article is going in the right direction. If for some reason Milton just vanished overnight and did no landfall, the article still would need improvements to describe that. It's clear this won't happen, Milton will cause a lot of flooding if not more, but we show know how extensive that is without our article to make sure the quality is established. — Masem (t) 16:16, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Unlike Helene, we have a conceivable chance of seeing an objective record being broken, with Milton already having the fastest intensification from TD to Category 5. Otherwise, wait until landfall and actual impacts. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 23:22, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the impacts are known, although I would support blurbing this if more intensity records are broken by this storm. (I mean, it's already the 5th most intense Atlantic hurricane as of this writing, I would not be surprised if it would try to break Wilma's record low pressure.) Vida0007 (talk) 00:09, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Changing this to Post-posting support. Well-sourced, and this is definitely the biggest news right now. This hurricane's impacts are now being felt in Florida too, even spawning several tornadoes. Vida0007 (talk) 00:20, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe it is now the most intense in the Gulf of Mexico, and the strongest since Wilma overall. I don't think it's going to reach Wilma's intensity though. It's probably going to be blurbed at landfall anyway. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 00:11, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • SMH. Can we PLEASE wait for impacts in the future? Not gonna request a closure like last time because Milton is already impacting portions of the Gulf Coast and probably will be worthy of posting within 48 hours, but really, we should wait in the future. DarkSide830 (talk) 00:13, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think that Milton in particular is different than Helene and the other one I can't remember immediately: Milton is setting records well over 24 hours out from landfall, and I think that warrants having an ITN discussion open. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 00:15, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ITN is not great for posting of records that routinely get broken (like strongest storms). Its the impact of the storm that matters, because not only that is what gets larger attention, but also a better judge for quality of the article to make sure it covers the bulk of such impacts. — Masem (t) 00:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Seconding what Masem said. And I'm gonna say the forbidden words again: as things stand currently, Milton is a much better DYK candidate than a ITN candidate. DarkSide830 (talk) 00:40, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, it's quite unsuitable for DYK because it's breaking news and so the article will be getting lots of development. The DYK process might take weeks as it has a long pipeline which is overloaded and so is not appropriate for such a topical topic. ITN is obviously the best place to handle this as it routinely covers weather stories and is currently blurbing two others. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:36, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Post-Posting Support. I'm pleased with this timing. DarkSide830 (talk) 04:05, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Can't we just wait for the tropical cyclone's impacts instead of nominating it as soon as it reaches a certain intensity? Patience is a virtue. --ZZZ'S 00:42, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It already seems clear that this is a big one and the preparations are in the news. The article seems reasonably substantial with 65 citations and counting. It's silly to hold back on this so we can continue to blurb a stale sports story from over a week ago. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm unconvinced that there's a reason to bash a sports nomination, especially given that 1 week isn't particularly long ago. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:28, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That blurb has been run for 8 straight days now, which is much more than the typical featured article gets, never mind DYK. But you know the saying "there's nothing as stale as yesterday's news"? Just think how much more that applies when it's last week's news or last month's news, as it is in that case. And then there's diminishing returns too. After our readers have seen the item a few times, then they will starting tuning it out. And so the consequence is that just about no-one is reading that article now. It's done.
    The fix for this is easy; just run new items that are actually in the news. Like this hurricane that is so terrifying that it moved a veteran meteorologist to tears.
    Andrew🐉(talk) 14:37, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I agree with Andrew Davidson, The article is in a good shape, is making headlines and I think it is good enough time now to post this. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 09:59, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose until we can give Milton a blurb that puts it above all the other category 5 hurricanes that didn't make ITN. So far, all we have is preparations (WP:CRYSTALBALL), the intensity (strongest since 2005), and the speed of intensification (fastest on record from tropical depression to category 5). If we can't, then let's have the patience to wait until landfall. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 11:50, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support Altblurb 2 proposed, which I think gives it the correct importance. Yes, it's before landfall we're supporting it, but this is a record-setter after all (strongest since 2005, least time between TD and cat 5 hurricane). GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:45, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per GeorgeMemulous. Based on the intensification, this particular one is an exception to the rule that we wait for a direct landfall on the mainland U.S. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:29, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait It hasn't hit land yet, its a good idea to wait for its effects and any casualty tolls before it is published on ITN. It is also a good idea include Helene alongside it when it makes landfall, as two powerful and devastating hurricanes in a very close period of time is notable. NikolaiVektovich (talk) 13:35, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Helene's devastation was primarily in North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia (U.S. state), whereas Milton's is almost certainly going to be concentrated in Florida. While it is true both will have had significant impacts around Tampa, I think their geographic separation, the fact Helene is gone and stale, and the fact that Milton is so extraordinary means the blurb should only be on Milton. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:39, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • As others (and I) have pointed out numerous times in prior TC ITN proposals, we should Wait for impacts or future developments. Category 5 hurricanes are not particularly rare for the North Atlantic basin, and though its RI episode was impressive, I'm not sure if that is truly ITN-worthy. As far as I can recall, the only meteorological record Milton has solidly broken is its extremely unusual motion vector as a C5 hurricane, which is trivial information at best. Milton has not broken any notable meteorological records that may make it ITN-worthy regardless of impacts (e.g. most intense Atlantic hurricane, still comfortably held by Wilma). In regards to abundant news coverage of Milton, this is primarily due to its expected, potentially devastating impacts to the Tampa Bay Area and much of west Florida. Though significant impacts are almost certainly—and unfortunately—going to happen, WP:CRYSTAL applies here until they do happen.
ArkHyena (it/its) 14:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for landfall, as per usual. Scuba 14:51, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per GeorgeMemulous. Huge news already due to millions of people ordered to evacuate and the existing documented extreme intensification and strength. There’s no need to wait, per WaltClip, and the article is in good shape per PrinceofPunjab. I strongly disagree with the reasoning expressed by !votes to wait. This is a blurb-worthy ITN story now. Jusdafax (talk) 16:26, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Already has made a bit of mess in the Yucatan peninsula where it brought rain and winds. (Reminder cyclones don't have to make landfall to do things) Mandatory evacuation orders issued, mass evacuations, some major airports already closed. Seems pretty impactful to me already. Tampa Bay mayor: "you're going to die" The purpose of ITN, and Wikipedia, is to serve the readers, not play Nomic and make up a bunch of arbitrary rules and robotically apply them no matter what. The "real world" is frequently messy and comes in many shades of gray, not stark blank-and-white. (idly wonders whether if an asteroid were predicted on a near certain collision course with a major city, people at ITN would strenuously argue "we have to wait and see what the impacts (heh heh) are first before we post it, can't foretell the future don't know what'll happen for certain") --Slowking Man (talk) 16:38, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Besides the implied false equivalency between tropical cyclones, where dozens make land impacts every year, and an asteroid strike on a major city, which would be entirely unprecedented in human history, there is the fact that weather forecasts can and do bust. Milton's impacts on Florida are far from "near certain", even if I would state that significant to catastrophic impacts are very likely myself. Weather is messy and it would be bad practice to push a weather event to ITN on the presumption that it will inflict significant impacts before those impacts actually happen. A prime example would be Typhoon Bebinca (2024), which for several days appeared likely (and was explicitly forecast by the JTWC) to make an unprecedented and potentially devastating landfall near Shanghai before dry air halted its intensification. ArkHyena (it/its) 23:43, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    In terms of a really bad hit true, though a "graze" or two have happened. Fun fact the Tunguska impactor, if merely displaced in time by 6-ish hrs (so the Earth would have rotated to a different spot) would have obliterated St Petersburg (then capital of the Russian Empire) and devastated the Baltic region (by causing a tsunami). (Per article estimated power in megatons which is "big-ass H-bomb" levels to use the scientific term) A premise more alt history stories need to take and run with.
    The Qingyang event also is interesting, unfortunately we don't have much info and could have been other things like storms. Speaking of, a big impact over the 70% of our planet covered by water would cause a tsunami which is decidedly not unprecedented. Look at the Eltanin impact, just don't read that before bedtime  
    My broad point was Milton has already caused significant impacts regardless of the future. Mass evacs, disaster declarations etc are impacts. I see now they're closing Wally World, apparently giant megacorps are taking actions with "impacts" (big employer, for one). Just say that in ITN: "disaster declarations evac orders etc are issued for Milton", no predicting the future needed. Slowking Man (talk) 03:15, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait to see impact. - RockinJack18 16:42, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait/Oppose Alt Blurb I per above. Sure it's one of the strongest Atlantic hurricanes on record, but people will remember Milton for its destruction more. Oppose Alt Blurb I because there has been plenty of Category 5 hurricanes that didn't make ITN, like Hurricane Lee (2023) and Hurricane Lorenzo (2019). For other Category 5 hurricanes that made it it ITN, it was for its destruction, not its strength. For Alb Blurb II, it can be added to future destruction info. INeedSupport :3 18:25, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait but noting now my support once it makes landfall. As I am just south of Tampa on Florida's west coast, I probably am going to be offline when it comes in and possibly for some days following. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:49, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Best of luck, Ad Orientem. Look after yourself. Schwede66 21:28, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:31, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hopefully you'll be fine. Good luck! INeedSupport :3 02:33, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Good luck! Hope the best for you. Rynoip (talk) 09:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Andrew Davidson. This is already in the news now, and the scale of evacuation is unprecedented. We can update it if or when things worsen, but there is no hard rule which says we need to delay. Also, on a communal responsibility level, I think we should be blurbing this for our readers now with altblurb2 making clear the severity... believe it or not, there are many who do not check the news and we can do our part in communicating how serious this is is. FlipandFlopped ツ 21:48, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I object to the point that blurbing this before it makes landfall is a good idea ignoring notability to inform those in the storm's path. By now I find it hard to believe that anyone in the track of Milton doesn't know what's going on, and those that do probably aren't checking Wikipedia's In The News, and even then, I don't know what's left to do after all the panic buying and evacuations being stalled on the highways. Wikipedia is not a newspaper and I'd bet less than half a percent of Wikipedia's reader base is even in the path. If they weren't swayed by world news headlines, I doubt they'd be swayed by an ITN entry. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 22:37, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's in the news, and the impacts are already being felt as hundreds of thousands of people are evacuating. Kcmastrpc (talk) 21:50, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The evacuations arent going to be of much importance compared to the impact.
Noah, BSBATalk 21:59, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support once it makes landfall I'm very biased on this one as I'm in its path and it would be a miracle if I still had the ability to log in to cast a !vote after landfall actually happens and the impacts start to become known, but if the storm's impact on Tampa, Clearwater, Sarasota, etc is anywhere near what is forecast, it is all but certain that this will warrant posting. Wishing Ad Orientem and anyone else in Milton's path all the best. Stay safe, and get somewhere safer if you still can.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 01:06, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Nixinova   T   C   06:48, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Quick vote tally:
15 saying wait until landfall (6 in the past 24 hours).
14 saying support posting now (7 in the past 24 hours).
0 saying oppose outright from my knowledge.
I might be a bit off in my counting, but it seems to be about even. If we post before landfall, it should be posted sooner rather than later so that it isn't immediately outdated. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 16:09, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@GeorgeMemulous, correct me if I’m wrong, but this is a consensus, not a vote. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 16:13, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia is not a democracy but the vote tally is still a useful tool for determining consensus. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 16:22, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggestion Nasa has images of Milton from the ISS that show the scale of the storm, which might be more interesting than the norm image used for hurricanes/typhoons. [9] Masem (t) 16:55, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Masem: The ISS video doesn't show Milton at its peak nor it shows it nearing landfall. I don't think it's more interesting than the usual image used for hurricanes. INeedSupport :3 21:56, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support posting immediately Category 5 hurricanes are relatively rare, impact will obviously be severe, and preparations themselves are so serious that they're already noteworthy.–DMartin 22:45, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Cissy Houston

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Article: Cissy Houston (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Mother of Whitney Houston, singer with The Sweet Inspirations which preformed with many acts such as Elvis, and also brief solo career. Issues exist with the article. TheCorriynial (talk) 19:33, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose article needs work. Scuba 14:52, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Zaw Myint Maung

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Article: Zaw Myint Maung (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Week,ABCNews
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Close aide of Aung San Suu Kyi Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 12:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine

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Articles: Victor Ambros (talk · history · tag) and Gary Ruvkun (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Victor Ambros and Gary Ruvkun (both pictured) receive the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for their discovery of microRNA. (Post)
News source(s): NYT, Nobel Prize press release
Credits:

Article updated
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Standard fare for ITN. Putting it up here to discuss whether article quality is adequate. Sandstein 11:25, 7 October 2024 (UTC) / Consolidated with an edit-conflicted nomination by Oceanh (talk) 11:19, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article looks good. 64.114 etc 00:47, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Thanks, Liu. Ready to post! 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:F4F3:BC7A:91D8:83C6 (talk) 00:49, 10 October 2024 (UTC) Suspected sock per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/64.114 etc.—Bagumba (talk) 10:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per the last four consecutive users. 2605:8D80:401:9506:71A2:F7E:99F4:3379 (talk) 00:50, 10 October 2024 (UTC) Suspected sock per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/64.114 etc.—Bagumba (talk) 10:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support notable event, you’re good to go. 72.143.234.123 (talk) 01:38, 10 October 2024 (UTC) Suspected sock per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/64.114 etc.—Bagumba (talk) 10:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as with others. 74.49.190.204 (talk) 02:30, 10 October 2024 (UTC) Suspected sock per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/64.114 etc.—Bagumba (talk) 10:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Marking ready. Nice work by the updaters. Good to go to the mainpage. Well done. Ktin (talk) 03:11, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Admins willing to post ITN: We need to post this ASAP to avoid Tuesday's news being the oldest news item and leaving this one stale. This week is frenetic with the Nobel and other news. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:02, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I like Ktin's idea Wikipedia_talk:In_the_news#Box_for_Nobel_Prizes. Does anyone want to do this? Natg 19 (talk) 17:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I've explained there a box doesn't work because we often have failed to get articles to quality before they are stale. However, we can put List of Nobel laureates into Ongoing for next week or so once these start dropping off the list. Masem (t) 17:54, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ildar Dadin

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Article: Ildar Dadin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died on Sunday but looks to have been confirmed today. Article is good length but needs more citations, especially in certain sections. Also needs a "death" section. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:17, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Kazakh nuclear power referendum

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Article: 2024 Kazakh nuclear power referendum (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Kazakhstan votes for its first nuclear power plant (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Kazakhstan approves proposed nuclear power plant in referendum
Alternative blurb II: ​ Kazakhstan votes for its first nuclear power plant since their independence from the Soviet Union.
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Article needs updating

 ShadZ01 (talk) 11:10, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose: Not notable enough (according to me). High Admiral JMT (talk) 13:01, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on notability. There's no way to know if the plant will actually be finished, so ideally it should be nominated then. Also, Kazakhstan isn't under the same international nuclear scrutiny as somewhere like Iran, and this isn't exactly a fusion reactor - nuclear power has been around for many decades, and Kazakhstan is a leading exporter of uranium, so it's not a surprise one gets built. Plus, I doubt it's notable in of itself, beyond being the country's only one, assuming no disaster or international crisis happens, which from a glance at the article seems unlikely with 6 decades of nuclear safety backing it up. As for the steps towards global carbon neutrality, the Ratcliffe-on-Soar Power Station closure from 30 September is sitting in ITN limbo - receiving little attention, with unclear consensus.
Also, Nuclear power in Kazakhstan states in its first paragraph Kazakhstan already had a nuclear reactor online in the Soviet era, so this isn't really their first. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:20, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 6

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October 6, 2024 (2024-10-06) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Law and crime

Science and technology

(Review needed) RD: Alejandro Arcos

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Article: Alejandro Arcos (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Mexican politician and municipal president of Chilpancingo de los Bravo. Assassinated on 6 October. TJMSmith (talk) 02:39, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Looking for footnotes in the main prose for date and place of birth and place of death. Hopefully, adding text for these things would bring this short wikibio's word count above 300 and more comfortably into Start Class. --PFHLai (talk) 12:46, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Tunisian presidential election

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Article: 2024 Tunisian presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Incumbent Tunisian President Kais Saied is declared the winner of the 2024 Tunisian presidential election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Incumbent Tunisian President Kais Saied is declared the winner of the 2024 Tunisian presidential election which was boycotted by the opposition.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Incumbent Tunisian President Kais Saied is declared the winner of the 2024 Tunisian presidential election which was boycotted due to opposition candidates being disqualified.
News source(s): Al Jazeera
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: A national election per ITN/R, waited a bit before bringing it here since the article wasn't updated Scuba 16:56, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support blurb II The election being boycotted should be included but also why. Rynoip (talk) 23:01, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sincerely asking since I'm uncertain, is it considered a sham election generally by "independent neutral observers"? If so do we blurb those? (In any case that fact should be mentioned in any blurb, I would think) --Slowking Man (talk) 01:08, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Independent third party election monitors where barred from monitoring due to being NGOs that received foreign funding (a la Russian NGO law). All the opposition parties have called the election a farce, and most media outlets have covered that. All that being said I don't think I've seen a media outlet do their own independent investigation into the fraud. Scuba 12:36, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support altblurb II I agree with Rynoip. 64.114 etc 02:04, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support alternative blurb 2. Good to post. 2605:8D80:401:9506:71A2:F7E:99F4:3379 (talk) 02:07, 10 October 2024 (UTC) Suspected sock per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/64.114 etc.—Bagumba (talk) 10:13, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as this is a general election that deserves to be posted. 74.49.190.204 (talk) 02:32, 10 October 2024 (UTC) Suspected sock per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/64.114 etc.—Bagumba (talk) 10:13, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per 74. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:4C8B:D7C5:6DAF:1827 (talk) 03:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC) Suspected sock per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/64.114 etc.—Bagumba (talk) 10:13, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Sefedin Braho

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Article: Sefedin Braho (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): A2 News (in Albanian)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Well referenced although a little short Abcmaxx (talk) 08:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Dave Hobson

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Article: Dave Hobson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): MSN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Needs work but long time Congressman.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 15:10, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Johan Neeskens

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Article: Johan Neeskens (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC Sport, Reuters, AP News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Noted Dutch football manager and player. 240F:7A:6253:1:31B8:ECBC:1D01:F0D8 (talk) 15:02, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sinking of HMNZS Manawanui

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Article: HMNZS Manawanui (2019) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Royal New Zealand Navy ship Manawanui sinks off Upolu, Samoa, after running aground. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At least 12 people are injured as the Royal New Zealand Navy ship Manawanui sinks after grounding off Upolu, Samoa.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Fairly unusual for commissioned navy vessels to sink, particularly Western vessels. This is the first RNZN vessel to sink since WWII. Article could use some updating. Will see what I can add - Dumelow (talk) 18:52, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've expanded it to a reasonably complete update - Dumelow (talk) 19:22, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think I know what happened. Schwede66 03:30, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose No deaths, minimal injuries. More a “Did you know that the HMNZS Manawanui is the first ship from New Zealand to sink in peacetime?” 27.96.223.193 (talk) 06:53, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's not correct, HMNZS Manuka sank in 1952 at its moorings. Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 21:04, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It sank in 1952, years after it was decommisioned, and was then a fishing trawler. Nfitz (talk) 21:11, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 5

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October 5, 2024 (2024-10-05) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Sports

(Posted) RD: Helmut Bauer (bishop)

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Article: Helmut Bauer (bishop) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): katholisch.de
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Auxiliary bishop in Würzburg, Bavaria, influential in church music and ecumenism for Germany. New article, based on the German. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:14, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ifigenia Martínez y Hernández

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Article: Ifigenia Martínez y Hernández (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Proceso (in Spanish)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Abcmaxx (talk) 19:14, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose article is teetering on a stub, and almost all the sources are primary sources. Scuba 20:22, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article's problems have been fixed. Scuba 12:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose An unsourced early life/education, a load of primary sources for each legislature she was elected to, and then her death. The infobox runs further down the page than any of its text. WP:ITNQUALITY says "Articles should be a minimally comprehensive overview of the subject, not omitting any major items". We have absolutely nothing sourced from a third-party source for any event outside the last of her 5,148 weeks on Earth. Unknown Temptation (talk) 14:59, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note Expanded the article quite a bit. Hopefully it's up to a minimum standard. EchoLuminary (talk) 06:55, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Scu ba @Unknown Temptation: FYI. —Bagumba (talk) 07:54, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the ping! Article looks much better now, will change my vote. Scuba 12:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Robert Coover

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Article: Robert Coover (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [12]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Vladimir.copic (talk) 02:58, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Bibliography uncited. Scuba 04:44, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Scu ba Are you able to point me to the policy or guideline that says we need citations for a bibliography? Vladimir.copic (talk) 05:12, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:CS Scuba 05:13, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Scu ba Can you point to the specific text you are referring to? I had a conversation about this here a few months ago and I don't think there is any consensus on it. This seems to be a fairly robust bibliography although there could be ISBN and publisher information - but this would be a higher standard than the Ernest Hemmingway FA. Vladimir.copic (talk) 05:23, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't a bibliography its own citation, in that it makes reference to the respective primary sources, which can be verified in any online library catalog? Sandstein 13:53, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
then cite the online library catalog. Scuba 16:12, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We don't do that for any other kind of bibliography? I really don't understand this strange quirk of RD that is so divorced from the practice in the article space, requiring something that we do not even expect of FAs. See: William Gibson, James Joyce, Mary Shelley Vladimir.copic (talk) 04:02, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because of how often concerns about uncited -ographies come up as a sticking point in ITN, I once added citations to the filmography of a living actor, thinking this was just the right thing to do, only to be flat-out reverted by an editor who claimed that citations are not necessary if the actor is credited onscreen or on the poster. Now that feels like it was on a rather extreme end of reactions, but I agree that there really does not seem to be any generally accepted best practice here. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 05:22, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This exact thing happened to me at Toumani Diabaté and is what highlighted to me this wider issue. Search -ography at any time on this page and you will get someone opposing based on it being uncited - yet the wider community does not agree on whether inline citations are needed. I am considering drafting something to go in MOS:LISTSOFWORKS to address this. Vladimir.copic (talk) 22:34, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I added a few sources to the Bibliography section, but I have run out of time today. Most of the bullet-points after the prose remain unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 21:25, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 4

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October 4, 2024 (2024-10-04) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Christopher Ciccone

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Article: Christopher Ciccone (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter, Entertainment Weekly
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American artist, interior decorator and designer. 240F:7A:6253:1:EDA2:6B32:7BE5:1E7C (talk) 01:52, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article looks good, albeit heavily supported by a single source. Scuba 03:05, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Michel Blanc

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Article: Michel Blanc (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Monde, The Guardian, BFMTV
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Notable French actor. Mr. Lechkar (talk) 23:27, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose uncited filmography Scuba 03:05, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose unsourced filmography and on stage works. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 09:42, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Remove whatever is unsourced if necessary but give him an RD, he's a household name in France and won a male acting award at CannesVaroon2542 (talk) 21:14, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, we don't merely remove verifiable content just to fasttrack a posting. That's gaming the system. —Bagumba (talk) 12:28, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Greg Landry

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Article: Greg Landry (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NFL.com, NBC Sports, ABC News, AP News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Detroit Lions quarterback and Chicago Bears assistant coach. 240F:7A:6253:1:9C21:B9C3:98B5:A380 (talk) 12:23, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose article is orange tagged. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 14:02, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose article is in bad need of citations. Scuba 21:22, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Billy Shaw

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Article: Billy Shaw (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NFL.com, ESPN, AP News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Hall of Fame Buffalo Bills guard. 240F:7A:6253:1:2D9A:96F4:D7E9:E994 (talk) 04:50, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait college section needs some work as it mainly consists of quotes, there is one cn tag and there is basically no indormation about his life between 1969 till 1999 and then from 1999 till his death. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 14:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article looks good from a glance, no orange tags, no CNs that I could see. Scuba 16:02, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Multiple citation tags outstanding.—Bagumba (talk) 16:26, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support @Admins willing to post ITN: It looks like this article has enough details & references now. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:20, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ongoing Removal: Sudanese civil war (2023–present)

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Article: Sudanese civil war (2023–present) (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

Nominator's comments: Even if it's still ongoing, it dosen't receive as much coverage that it use to have. That article is also less updated then what it was. --Roncanada (talk) 22:36, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 
  • Support The list of ongoing armed conflicts lists six major wars, 15 wars and many lesser conflicts. By listing just a few of these in ITN's Ongoing, we give the impression that that's all there is. That's misleading and so it would be better to link to the list. That would provide a continuous gateway to all the numerous conflicts such as the Gang war in Haiti which is discussed below. Cherry-picking particular wars and incidents is not adequate as it thereby ignores all the others. And we don't have space to list everything. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:07, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You opposed the nomination related to the Haitian gang war though? We have plenty of space, the main obstacle is regular updates and article quality. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:08, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Just 3 days ago there was an article in The Guardian about the El Fasher offensive, 2 weeks ago CNN article about the capital city battles, and Al Jazeera article about the resulting refugee crisis. Quite clearly ongoing and widely reported on, even given the difficulties reporting on this part of the world. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:15, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The ongoing line is meant for stories that are making headlines on a near daily basis, not simply because the event is ongoing. The Ukraine and the Israeli fronts clearly get those. While there are occasional stories from the Sudan civil war, its just too small scale in terms of coverage to be appropriate to maintain in the ongoing line. Masem (t) 12:30, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support only 50 edits since August, and nothing substantive. Stephen 13:03, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Due to various reasons, this particular conflict is not making that much news. It has only limited number of edits in the last two months when ongoing articles are expected to be updated nearly every day. I don't think timeline article is good enough to be posted on the main page as it seems to have turned into a news ticker. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 14:10, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I see well over 30 articles on the subject of the war in the last 24-48 hours (Searching for Sudan and Soudan...) Yesterday, AfricaNews wrote: "Fighting is expected to intensify as the rainy season draws to a close." (source) For some reason, neither the 29 Sept 2024 NYT article (§) on the UAE's "borrowing" of the Red Crescent symbol, nor the 2 October BBC article mentioning that NYT article have made it to the entry yet... -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 14:52, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Even if there are dozens of news stories of late about it, the lack of significant updates on a near-daily basis to our article itself means it's failing the quality aspect that would be expected for ongoing, and should be removed. But even with the bulk of those stories, the ones I see all fall into more routine coverage that doesn't describe any significant events that are part of it. Masem (t) 15:40, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. Yes, the pace of editing has slowed a bit. But the article is still getting meaningful updates and sadly the war is continuing. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:14, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • support per stephen. it is for events with regular updates, clearly it is lacking.Sportsnut24 (talk) 00:36, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: I disagree that an ongoing item needs to require regular updates, but then, as others have noted above, there certainly are things going on in this conflict, particularly if we look more widely than the front pages of western media. The war is important and the war is ongoing: therefore, it is a good candidate for an ongoing item. UndercoverClassicist T·C 09:08, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. The Kip (contribs) 04:55, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The way I see it, the Timeline article is not written well enough to be at ITN as things currently stand. Too many single sentence updates that are simply "side a did x" or "side b claims y". Timeline or not, the article is still subject to the test of "substantial updates", which I think are lacking here. DarkSide830 (talk) 02:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The timeline and the main article are two different entries. The main entry has had significant updates since this was opened. Articles from La Presse, Africa News, RFI, etc. have appeared in the last 24 hours (each of those 3 on different subjects related to the war). They could be added if those who work on the page deem them useful to enrich the reader's understanding... nb: the page is already >300K (no sense bloating for the sake of bloating it) and has had over 178K views in the last 30 days.-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 21:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Still not really convinced to be honest. There has been a substantial update every few days, but a lot of the info being added seems to be background information. Besides one blip about the offensive, I don't really think there have been ANY substantial updates really that are directly related to the conflict itself. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:29, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Bosnia and Herzegovina floods

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Article: 2024 Bosnia and Herzegovina floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least fifteen people die in floods and landslides in Bosnia and Herzegovina. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, Al-Jazeera, N1Info, Associated Press
Credits:

Article sources count 14 dead in Jablanica and 1 in Fojnica. At least one place was apparently completely buried by debris (Donja Jablanica), so likely many more. The main road between Sarajevo and the Adriatic Sea is closed. Elections are also due this weekend. Daß Wölf 14:00, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support on notability, oppose on quality as the article isn't there yet. 15 confirmed less than 24 hours after the event happened is awfully high, and a village with its own article buried is what I'd considered newsworthy. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 14:18, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Any suggestions on what to improve? There's more info in the sources I used in the article, but I tried to stick with what's almost surely not going to be refuted. The catastrophe entered the news cycle only several hours earlier today. The people who found the dead in Jablanica are with the mountain rescue service, which probably started at sunrise.
There should be more info by tomorrow, but I don't believe any of this is going to be struck out. Jablanica might or might not turn out to be the centre of the catastrophe. I'll add the government info from the N1 article; I only relied on BiH and Croatian sources up till now. Daß Wölf 14:44, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some suggestions I have for improving the article's quality are to split it into sections and add an infobox. I suggest the article have at least sections for the lede, background, the flooding itself, the aftermath, reactions, and a see also section to similar disasters. As for the infobox, I suggest Template:Infobox flood. If you find any images, either free-to-use or fair use (mutually exclusive), use that as the image parameter. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 14:50, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@GeorgeMemulous: Thanks, I've added an infobox. I'll organise it into sections if I find more time later today (but naturally, anybody is welcome). No objections beside the layout? Daß Wölf 15:39, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Beyond that, I'd say the article length is the other main concern, but I assume once it's split into the aforementioned sections that won't be much of a concern. Everything appears to be sourced. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 15:41, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Kcmastrpc: Economic impact will be pretty high. Due to the enormous damage of the railway, the Federal Railways will suffer a daily loss of circa KM 280,000 (~€143,000) for at least a few months according to this source. The fact that part of the main road, M-17, between the capital Sarajevo and Mostar has suffered major damage as well (the two cities garnering a major amount of economic cash flow), will most definitely add to the financial loss. These are the most damaging floods since the ones in 2014 and this is an enormous deal as it was completely unexpected. Bakir123 (talk) 14:31, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 3

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October 3, 2024 (2024-10-03) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

RD: Pierre Christin

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Article: Pierre Christin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Figaro, El Pais
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

French comic author known per Valérian. Article not ready yet. Alexcalamaro (talk) 07:04, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait three cn tags needs to be resolved. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 09:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Pont-Sondé attack

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Article: 2024 Pont-Sondé attack (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An attack on the Haitian town of Pont-Sondé by a gang leaves at least 70 people dead and another 50 injured. (Post)
News source(s): BBC News, AP
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Breaking news around the world now, death and injury toll still only estimated at the moment. Only just started the article so help with expanding most welcome: need background, attack, response and aftermath sections ideally. Abcmaxx (talk) 06:43, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sardonic comment: sorry, come back if a white person dies, otherwise not hittin' WP:MINIMUMDEATHS here. (Advice for those outside the Global North "wanting" to "make it onto" ITN: [13]) Hmm, Helene got deaths-blurbed when its tally hit the century mark—though to be fair it already was blurbed as a Major Storm. I wonder where the line is for that, maybe Category 3, the NHC's for "major hurricane" vs just "hurricane"? "Fun" thought exercise how many people would a Cat 2 storm have to kill in Haiti, to get on ITN, if it didn't affect anywhere else? (Stick a pin in this comment, for next weekish when then-likely-Trop Storm Kirk warp-5s over to W Europe, and how ITN reacts towards that, to contrast.) --Slowking Man (talk) 21:53, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait/Lean Support Article still need a bit more work, but given the causalities and based on the international reaction I'm leaning towards support. Kcmastrpc (talk) 19:24, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality per above - while not a stub, article is still far too short. Support on notability - even with the ongoing crisis, a gang shooting that kills upwards of 70 people is anything but "routine." The Kip (contribs) 19:58, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Event in the news, endorse (conditional on quality as usual). Bitter regretful observation: people might want to keep eye on (T·E·H·L·R) Haitian Civil War for if/when it gets turned to an article. --Slowking Man (talk) 21:53, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, I would have to agree with Slowking Man's and note the blasé attitudes towards this event by some individuals reflecting trends that have been documented among media portrayals of certain communities. Clearly a significant event. Ornithoptera (talk) 06:06, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Highlighting this particular incident still wouldn't give the big picture. The list of ongoing armed conflicts indicates that this is just a drop in the ocean. The gang wars in Mexico generate more deaths than the gangs in Haiti and then there are other major wars too. If you want to right great wrongs, then you have your work cut out for you. Our job as an encyclopedia is to summarise all this, not to dwell on the detail. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:40, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The larger issue is that WP is not a newspaper, and not every single event needs an article or a separate article. This specific event looks like part of the ongoing violence in Haiti and while it was noted in the day-to-day media, likely will not have any substantive difference from all the other violence in Haiti that necessitates a separate article, much less being ITN. Masem (t) 13:16, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think here is a larger point some of us are kind of working towards: Okay, now, take a view like those expressed in the replies preceding mine, and apply to other subjects and kinds of events. Do we really need to mention every cyclone that kills a bunch of people and give it its own article? What about floods in Europe or China or India or insert place here? Heat waves? Storms happen, people die, big deal, people die all the time. Put it in some kinda "storms in $YEAR" article. ("Don't let $PERSON's death get you down. People die all the time. Why, you could wake up dead tomorrow. ...Well. goodnight!") Philosophical/rhetorical query: What is it that makes "big storms and their effects" more intrinsically ITN-worthy vs "humans directly killing other humans in $PLACE"?
    Fun exercise: reflect on this given that us cranking up our planet's temperature is inevitably going to lead to much more of this stuff. What's gonna be the response when three/four-digit death tolls from cyclones become a routine annual event? (Excerpts from Future Wikipedia: "The 2039 tropical storm death season begins in the Northern Hemisphere. Wikipedia reminds those located below 40 degrees north to review their disaster and evacuation planning, stay informed, and promptly follow instructions from relevant authorities.") Not to mention all the inevitable mass migration/conflict/wars likely to result. (More excerpts: "Ongoing events: Current sub-temperate territorial conflicts") Ooh, nice informative & relevant map: pop. density/latitude. --Slowking Man (talk) 18:01, 5 October 2024 (UTC) (Phrase of the day: "shifting baselines" --Slowking Man (talk) 18:04, 5 October 2024 (UTC))[reply]
    Replying to own comment to note that "floods in part of Europe" has been apparently just posted to ITN. (Bonus points: from a non-English-as-first-lang part!) Compare-and-contrast current death toll. More data points for calibration of WP:MINIMUMDEATHS? ("Storms and floods happen, people die...") --Slowking Man (talk) 19:11, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The flood stub and this stub are about the same size (by any name). I didn't think the flood one would make it. Now that it has and with this event rarer and deadlier, holding it down would definitely appear to suggest what it looks like about our standards and practices. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:22, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    InedibleHulk, you would know (or at least should know) that we do not post stubs. The 2024 Bosnia and Herzegovina floods article wasn't a stub (any longer) when I posted it. Neither is this article a stub any longer. Whilst those assessments are not an exact science, I note that they no longer have stub tags, and on the talk pages, they are both rated start class; I agree with those ratings. Hence, the basic premise from which you start your argument (if we post the other stub, we might as well post this stub, too) is wrong.
    Blurbs get posted when there is at least rough consensus to do so. To my mind, this article is good enough now. It cannot get posted, though, because that's not what the consensus says. There are many comments above that the topic is notable but the article (at the time of voting) was a stub. That's now changed, but editors need to say so. Schwede66 03:32, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I thought adding "(by any name)" would be enough (sorry). Whatever we call this short article or that brief overview, you posted the latter after two supports. Given the expansion and de facto "Wait !votes", I now count more than two supportive of publicizing this attack (including your own) and know some admins who'd rightly discount a few of those opposes as poor arguments; if any of them are watching, I suggest posting sooner than later. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:23, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Needs attention If those who opposed on quality can please have a look again if the current quality is enough now to change your votes given the article has been majorly expanded. Abcmaxx (talk) 19:52, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Abcmaxx: Am I to understand your prior Update and Needs attention emboldenings as support in itself? If so, I think you'll need to embolden the word "Support" for it to technically count toward "consensus". At least that's what I've gathered from editors need to say so. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:54, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm the nominator though. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:12, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Good point, my bad; @PrinceofPunjab: You're not, are you? InedibleHulk (talk) 21:21, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Scu ba: I missed your name in the SEAOFNUMBERS; would you care to start again? InedibleHulk (talk) 21:42, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @InedibleHulk: Thanks! Changed my vote. Scuba 00:08, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @TDKR Chicago 101: I have no idea how I missed you starting first, but that's no excuse; have things changed? InedibleHulk (talk) 21:45, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support. Still quite short, but this attack seems pretty noteworthy, even in the context of the larger gang war (which I still believe has been underrepresented here at ITN), so I think the article state is good enough. DarkSide830 (talk) 18:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Schwede66: is consensus strong enough now for posting? Abcmaxx (talk) 09:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is no longer a stub at 2264 characters. It appears well-cited. Ready to post. Thriley (talk) 17:01, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted – Schwede66 19:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Typhoon Krathon

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Consensus to post isn't there. Schwede66 08:37, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Typhoon Krathon (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Typhoon Krathon leaves at least 18 people dead in the Philippines and Taiwan. (Post)
News source(s): Barrons, Inquirer, France 24, AP News
Credits:

The storm death toll has risen to 18, and the articles are in good shape. HurricaneEdgar 19:49, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Ready?) British Indian Ocean Territory / Chagos Archipelago sovereignty dispute

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Articles: British Indian Ocean Territory (talk · history · tag) and Chagos Archipelago sovereignty dispute (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The United Kingdom agrees to cede sovereignty of the British Indian Ocean Territory to Mauritius (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The United Kingdom agrees to cede sovereignty of the British Indian Ocean Territory to Mauritius
Alternative blurb II: ​ The United Kingdom agrees to cede sovereignty of the British Indian Ocean Territory to Mauritius in exchange for the territory being leased back to the UK for the initial period of 99 years.
Alternative blurb III: ​ In conformity with international law, the United Kingdom completes the decolonisation of Mauritius through a bilateral treaty between both countries
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article needs updating

CMD (talk) 10:06, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The 99-year lease applies to the base on Diego Garcia; the transfer of sovereignty applies to the entire territory, and Mauritius has indicated that they'd support resettling Chagossians on the other islands of the archipelago. And the rest of your comment convinces me that you are not bringing a serious understanding of international relations to bear here. GenevieveDEon (talk) 11:22, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 2

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October 2, 2024 (2024-10-02) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Sports

RD: Christopher Charles Benninger

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Article: Christopher Charles Benninger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Indian Express
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American-born Indian architect. 240F:7A:6253:1:E8D8:9FD9:8A77:E4D6 (talk) 15:26, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose there is an orange COI and NPOV tag. The early life section have no information about the subject's early life. Sourcing is not great as some of the sources are dead, primary or have no information about the subject. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:43, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Complete brain mapping of fruit fly

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Article: Brain mapping (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Scientists complete a full brain map of the common fruit fly. (Post)
News source(s): New York Times, The Guardian, Nature (peer reviewed paper)
Credits:

Article updated

Best likely article to include this but currently lacks this update. Masem (t) 17:59, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*Strong oppose on quality - article hasn't been updated at all since May 2024. A timeline article, or an article about this specific brainmap would be best here, but to my knowledge none exists. Not sure as to notability, but leaning weak support. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 18:03, 3 October 2024 (UTC) Quality issues are more or less resolved, overall support. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 11:51, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I plan to do the update if it is not done in the next 12 to 24 hr. On mobile so can't do an effective job of it until on real keyboard. Masem (t) 18:07, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Expansion is done. I think there are free use images based on the papers, but have to try to figure out best source to work from . --Masem (t) 05:18, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is not eligible for DYK, it is not at GA within the past 7 days, nor expanded 5x, or new enough. Ornithoptera (talk) 20:31, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Susie Berning

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Article: Susie Berning (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): USGA.org, ESPN, AP News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American Hall of Fame professional golfer. 240F:7A:6253:1:F8A2:3A7B:85FC:16AA (talk) 02:42, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 1

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October 1, 2024 (2024-10-01) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Mark Rutte installed as Secretary General of NATO

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Article: Mark Rutte (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte (pictured) is installed as the Secretary General of NATO, succeeding Jens Stoltenberg (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Mark Rutte (pictured) succeeds Jens Stoltenberg as Secretary General of NATO
News source(s): Associated Press
Credits:

Article updated

US port strike

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Article: 2024 United States port strike (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Dockworkers strike at East and Gulf Coast ports in the United States (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ 45,000 ILA dockworkers go on strike at East Coast and Gulf Coast ports in the United States.
Alternative blurb II: ​ 45,000 dockworkers of the International Longshoremen's Association strike across United States Gulf and East Coast ports.
Alternative blurb III: ​ The ILA and USMX negotiate to suspend a three-day labour strike at US Gulf and East Coast ports by over 45,000 dockworkers.
News source(s): (initial CNBC report), (post-strike Reuters report)
Credits:

This may impact supply and inflation and is newsworthy. Interstellarity (talk) 21:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose - this may not last long. And hasn't exactly been getting anything other than local reporting. What other strikes have we ITN'ed? I'd have thought it would have had to be more of a general strike, or something unusual like the 1981 US Air Traffic Controllers strike, when they simply fired all the strikers. If we ITNed all similar strikes, we'd have a few a month just for France! :) Nfitz (talk) 21:31, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment US East Coast / Gulf ports process close to half of the value of imports coming into the USA, and if I'm not mistaken, the US is the biggest importer on the planet. Also, I believe we blurbed the 2023 SAG-AFTRA strike which was entertainment workers, not people who oversaw trade. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:46, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, the 2023 SAG-AFTRA strike was blurbed in July 2023: see the posted blurb page. There was also coincidentally a blurb for a large-scale strike in France earlier that month. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Purely by the numbers, a French strike does not have the same economic impact as one that impacts the entire East and Gulf Coast ports, which as noted process about half of all imports/exports. IF this lasts long (more than a few days), it could be one of the largest strikes in decades. Wqwt (talk) 22:16, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If this lasts long, then it can be reposted. Obviously strikes in bigger countries have bigger local impacts. That doesn't make it ITN. Surely the relative impact of the Canadian rail strike (which shut down virtually the entire rail network) was bigger - but not even nominated. Nfitz (talk) 16:04, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The Canadian rail strike was nominated. It was mainly opposed due to article quality issues & also b/c the strike ended too quickly. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 18:20, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – From the Impact section of the article, we can see the massive effects this strike has. First strike of this sort in nearly fifty years. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 21:44, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There have been many, many, dockworkers strikes. It isn't even the first one this week - Montreal. The only difference is the rest of us don't rush here as fast as we can for local news. Nfitz (talk) 21:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for a while to see if this is resolved very quickly (i.e. under 24 hours), but otherwise strong support. (argument moved below). GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:52, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It looks like there isn't going to be a resolution to this anytime soon and the fact this story has dropped off the front pages of many MSM outlets has me suspicious. Blurb it! Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:53, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: John Amos

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Article: John Amos (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Amos passed 21 August 2024; it was announced 1 October 2024. Staraction (talk | contribs) 19:42, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose large chunks of article are uncited. Scuba 20:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I am shocked to see that they didn't let public know before 40 days passed. BilboBeggins (talk) 21:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose orange tagged and many cn tags. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 14:09, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Iran strikes Israel

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Article: October 2024 Iranian strikes against Israel (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Iran launches strikes against Israel following Israel's ground invasion of Lebanon. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Iran launches a missile attack against Israel.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Iran launches a missile attack against Israel in retaliation for the assassinations of Hezbollah and Hamas leaders Hassan Nasrallah and Ismail Haniyeh, and of Iranian general Abbas Nilforoushan.
News source(s): WaPo CNN
Credits:

Early, but could have crucial consequences in the conflict - RockinJack18 17:13, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Altblurb1 until Iran's attack is directly connected to the invasion of Lebanon. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 17:17, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I'm sure this was just a spur of the moment thing. Scuba 02:41, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This was a major, highly newsworthy attack that is important enough to have its own entry. Jerdle (talk) 18:01, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I know it's tempting to bundle together the crazy events in the last 2 days but I think this is a notable development on its own. A nuclear-armed state has been directly bombarded by a foreign nation. Tel Aviv and Jerusalem have had hundreds of missile strikes, the entire country is in lockdown, by far the biggest confrontation between Israel and Iran ever. This will have major ramifications for the future of the conflict. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:16, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I feel there's significant exaggeration in your statement User:PrecariousWorlds. It's not the "biggest confrontation between Israel and Iran ever". With less than 200 missiles fired, it's not even the biggest confrontation this year - as there was over 300 in April 2024. Also, with less than 200 missiles fired, what sourcing are you using for the "hundreds of missile strikes"? Surely the majority of the missiles were shot down, and didn't strike. Can you provide some kind of back-up for your comment, or edit it? Thanks, Nfitz (talk) 20:37, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
US Major general Pat Ryder says the attack was at least twice as big as in April ( ). Most were intercepted but many struck and caused significant damage in suburbs and in military bases. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:55, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your words are hundreds. Clearly Ryder is full of it, according to Israeli and Iranian claims. Nfitz (talk) 16:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait/Oppose until we see if this has wider ramifications. Iran launched missiles at Israel just this year, in April, as a response to Israel killing five members of Iran’s revolutionary guards, but there was no larger effects. The middle east is a powder keg right now, and we should not be posting every salvo that occurs between all these nations. Natg 19 (talk) 18:25, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. a whole country waiting for missiles coming from +1000miles away to fall on its head, in what might spark a (choose your superlative / descriptor) war, is important enough. TaBaZzz (talk) 18:51, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is a big breaking news live coverage on every major news network around the world. It should be "Alternative blurb" because blurb is original research that is probably wrong. Tradediatalk 19:09, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Covered in ongoing. Kcmastrpc (talk) 19:11, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb. We shouldn't try to read tea leaves about why Iran did this, nor should be broadcast their explanations. The article will cover all that. What's important to cover in the blurb is what happened. Hundreds of ballistic missiles were fired. Add casualty figures if there were any, as they become available, because we customarily include them. Jehochman Talk 19:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment reports say most of the missiles were shot down, and the few that landed did little damage with maybe perhaps one casualty. This would make this similar to the previous missile strike this year. It is probably better to try to keep it to one facet of this conflict, being the lebanon invasion. Masem (t) 19:39, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support original blurb unless there is a separate posting for the Lebanon invasion. Two for one. Bitspectator ⛩️ 19:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question Is the consensus that this nomination and the below nomination regarding the Israel invasion of Lebanon from September 30th are mutually exclusive? On the one hand, the two events are directly connected and closely related, so it seems logical to group them in a blurb. But on the other hand, this attack by Iran has been in the works for a while - is it an oversimplification to imply causation by saying "After Israel does x, Iran does y"? In any event, support some blurb being posted. The admin who reviews this probably should assess and decide on the nomination for the invasion at the same time. FlipandFlopped ツ 19:45, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the original blurb here with both launches strikesand Israel's ground invasion of Lebanon to be bolded. We can use one blurb to document two very related events.VR (Please ping on reply) 19:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Vice regent Not true, the IRGC said it was for the assassinations Personisinsterest (talk) 22:49, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose covered by ongoing.
Noah, BSBATalk 19:47, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Observation 1: No one (of the general reader public, to a first approximation) notices/sees the "ongoing" items down there. See banner blindness. Might as well just remove the individual entries, just retain the "Ongoing events" link, enlarge text size a bit. Move all the "here are various Major Global Events" stuff to the top of that page. There, frees up space in the already crowded ITN box (this helps in making individual items stand out more). (Wikimedia really needs to hire a professional UI designer. The Right Thing to do would be for them to make suggestions on improvements, and work on things requested by the projects.)
Observation 2: Assume waaaaay less general background & world events knowledge of a general audience (the audience Wikipedia is supposed to be written towards). Lowest common denominator. What % of the total English-as-a-first-language population do you estimate would be able to without looking up anything, correctly answer: Name a country that Hezbollah has something to do with? Which countries are immediately adjacent to Israel? Okay now do total world English speakers. Those things being necessary prerequisite knowledge, to know that for some kind of News related to "Israel" "Iran" "Lebanon", you might want to go looking under "Israel—Hezbollah war". --Slowking Man (talk) 20:19, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
on the ·second point, we don't assume readers are dumb as rocks and there is some degree of WP:CIR for readers, it's why we normally do not link country or major city names unless we are specifically talking about that as a geographic place, because we assume that readers have a decent knowledge of world geography. Masem (t) 20:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, it's hard to keep track of axis of the three H-terrorist groups, and what they currently occupy, for a casual reader. I think a simple "Israeli wars" or "Fighting in the Middle East" might cover it better. Nfitz (talk) 20:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have some possibly bad news for you about the median level of geography knowledge of the general public. (Yes that's the right link though the website might look unexpected, they apparently commissioned the survey.) Hmm wonder what kind of results you'd get from a survey of one of the top 5 countries here after the US (the total # of which are in Europe: 0) Slowking Man (talk) 01:59, 2 October 2024 (UTC) (Clarifying addendum: top 5 by total # of en speakers --Slowking Man (talk) 04:36, 2 October 2024 (UTC))[reply]

(Posted) Thai school bus crash

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Article: 2024 Lam Luk Ka bus crash (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Twenty schoolchildren and three others are killed in a bus crash (pictured) in Pathum Thani, Thailand (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A school bus crashes (pictured) in Pathum Thani, Thailand, leaving 20 school children and 3 others dead
Alternative blurb II: ​ A school bus crashes and burns (pictured) in Pathum Thani, Thailand, leaving 22 school children and 3 teachers dead.
News source(s): Reuters, BBC, Bangkok Post
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Bus carrying school children crashes and catches fire in Thailand, leaving 20 children and 3 other dead. Significant both in term of number of fatalities and that of the fact that most of which are children. PS Feel free to edit the blurb as appropriate. I'm not sure about its writing style. --Chainwit. (talk) 16:11, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that image AI generated? See the hose on the right disappearing and the nearly unintelligible Mercedes-Benz written in English. That, or this image was taken at a low resolution and upscaled, keeping the sparse details. Either way, I don't believe this image is a good fit for ITN. Neutral on the blurb, seems to be a relatively major safety incident more than it is as a loss of life, as the article states that over 20,000 traffic fatalities are reported yearly in Thailand. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 16:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Image is not AI generated I can confirm. It just happen so to be a screenshot from a low-res live stream on YouTube. And yes, the bus indeed bears a Mercedes logo. -- Chainwit. (talk) 17:05, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose The loss of life is horrific. However we almost never post traffic accidents, even really bad ones. And as GeorgeMemulous noted, Thailand has a bad reputation for traffic safety. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:03, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose a tragic accident, but I don't think this will any sort of long term impact or effect. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:31, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose, tragic but ultimately routine news. For anyone curious, on the livestream, we can see that there's a twist and fold in the hose making it flatter at one angle, and giving the impression that it's disappearing into the ground (and reappearing), especially with the low resolution. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 18:52, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support Sigh... with respect, I find myself once again needing to correct the record and point out a double standard in relation to a bus crash which occurs outside of the western world. In March of this year, after 2024 Mmamatlakala bus crash was nominated, there was strong opposition with many claiming that we do not post "routine bus crashes" (similar to what is happening here). At that time, I pointed out that, quite contrary to those claiming we never post automobile accidents, we had actually in fact posted both the Carberry highway collision and Humboldt Broncos bus crash with minimal, if any, opposition. To post those accidents from the Western world but not one with more casualties from a non-western country, would leave ITN readers with the impression that white bus crash victims dying is notable where African or Asian bus crashes are not. In the end, the 2024 Mmamatlakala bus crash was posted to ITN. For consistency and to avoid systemic bias, that precedent should be upheld. This is a devastating event for Thailand and it is being widely reported by global news outlets and there is no reason to break from the precedent we set earlier this year. FlipandFlopped ツ 19:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I understand your position, but in my opinion, the Carberry bus crash would get an oppose vote from me. Of the four mentioned, I'd say the Humboldt Broncos bus crash and 2024 Mmamatlakala bus crash are the only ones that would deserve a blurb, given the former having important and notable passengers killed and the latter having a very high death toll of one identifiable group. That being said, Oppose the 2024 Thai bus crash until if and when a major new development occurs. If all is said and done, it'll stay oppose. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Honestly, I wouldn't have supported posting any of these bus crashes. We can always point at previous times we did something to call it a precedent, but it means we never get to actually ask ourselves whether we should've actually be doing it to begin with. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 10:51, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not interesting to our readers. Tradediatalk 20:08, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    this is not a forum to discuss if articles are interesting but rather to post articles that are in the news ( WP:ITNPURPOSE ) so no offense but that argument is not valid (keep your oppose vote though not invalidating that!) Ion.want.uu (talk) 01:06, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose per above. Absolutely tragic, but limited impact and likely to have a limited legacy. The Kip (contribs) 00:44, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support event is significant due to high fatality rate and the circumstance of it being children. Being "not interesting" to readers just because it didn't occur in the Western world shouldn't be any reason to oppose and doesn't diminish its significance and impact. Happily888 (talk) 01:08, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is the type of event article that at the present time, it is not clear if it has the enduring coverage that we'd expect for event articles, as is the case for most road traffic accidents, even with the large toll. This is the trouble that we have overall with keeping the encyclopedia to covering news topics that are appropriate for an encyclopedia, with a long tail and influence elsewhere, and not for any current event that gets a burst of news coverage (even if worldwide). Maybe there is some long tail of a story here, but its definitely not obvious, and until it is, we really shouldn't even have an article on it (that's more what Wikinews is for). --Masem (t) 04:01, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment A quick update here, investigations found the bus to have been illegally modified with 10 gas tanks fitted into it. It "likely would" cause a stricter reform in term of bus regulation in Thailand, which IMO makes the incidence significant in term of a lasting effect? (Again with another "?") --Chainwit. (talk) 08:31, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  1. It was a coach rather than a school bus, having been hired for an outing
  2. It was about 50 years old and been extensively modded, being converted from an Isuzu to a Mercedes – don't ask me how
  3. Such incidents are common in Thailand which has a very high rate of traffic accidents – see List of countries by traffic-related death rate
Andrew🐉(talk) 22:06, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support without the image, we can make do without the low-res quality. There are updates in the article which indicate a move for stronger regulation (albeit a small start); suspension of the bus operator as a business; seizing of their other illegally modded bus inventory. – robertsky (talk) 03:03, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Accidents are posted - period. I see zero reason this does not meet ITN criteria, and the mere fact it's a "tragic accident" or only is impactful in one country is not a reason to exclude it. I do, however, agree with the others that the image is less than ideal and would prefer this not be an image post if a better one is not found. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | me | talk to me! 03:09, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Per nom et al. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:12, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Numerically, it's almost even. I'm guided here by many editors expressing "weak opposes" and one oppose vote that had to be neglected for a non-policy based rationale. Schwede66 19:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Jimmy Carter turns 100

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Good faith nom, however consensus to post will not develop. Wishing Mr. Carter joy and many (more) years. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:57, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Already on MainPage under SA/OTD. --PFHLai (talk) 22:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Jimmy Carter (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former U.S. president Jimmy Carter turns 100, the first U.S. president to do so. (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post, The Hill, USA Today, Al Jazeera, BBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: A milestone for a record-holder. Carter is the oldest living U.S. president, the longest-lived president in U.S. history, the president who has lived longest after their presidency ended, and the first to reach the age of 100.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Inauguration of Claudia Sheinbaum

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(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
WP:SNOW, especially given her election was posted when it happened. The Kip (contribs) 17:21, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Claudia Sheinbaum (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Claudia Sheinbaum (pictured) is inaugurated as the 66th President of Mexico, becoming the first woman to ever hold the office. (Post)
News source(s): NPR, NBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: It's the first time a woman has ever held the presidency in Mexico, also being particularly groundbreaking as the first woman ever elected to be head of state in one of the three major North American countries
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) New Prime Minister of Japan

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Articles: Shigeru Ishiba (talk · history · tag) and 2024 Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Shigeru Ishiba (pictured) becomes the Prime Minister of Japan, succeeding Fumio Kishida. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Shigeru Ishiba (pictured) becomes the Prime Minister of Japan, after winning the Japanese Liberal Democratic Party leadership election.
Alternative blurb II: ​ After winning the Liberal Democratic Party leadership election, Shigeru Ishiba (pictured) becomes the Prime Minister of Japan, succeeding Fumio Kishida.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Shigeru Ishiba (pictured) succeeds Fumio Kishida as the Prime Minister of Japan, after winning the Liberal Democratic Party leadership election.
News source(s): NHK, Japan Today, Reuters
Credits:

One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Shigeru Ishiba has officially been accepted as the 102nd Prime Minister of Japan by the Diet. However, the article still needs some work done. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 05:15, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That nomination was closed with consensus to wait till inauguration. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:08, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose Election article is good sourcing wise, but the background info is lacking info between 9/11 to 9/27 and that's a huge/crucial part of the election coverage. Ishiba's article also has a few cn tags, given the overall improved state of the article. Support Expanded the LDP article and addressed cn tags on Ishiba's article. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:36, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per ITN/R Scuba 16:25, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
amended as ITN/R. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:08, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support because it's a new head of state and ITN/R. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 23:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JohnAdams1800, if something is ITN/R, then the only matter to comment on is whether article quality is up to scratch. Schwede66 23:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To clarify, he's not head of state but head of government, Japan is a constitutional monarchy, with Naruhito as head of state. AusLondonder (talk) 20:59, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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