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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/September 2024

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September 30

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September 30, 2024 (2024-09-30) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

RD: Ken Page

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Article: Ken Page (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): RadioTimes.com, Extra
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Happily888 (talk) 10:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support American voice and stage actor of several memorable characters, aged precisely 70. A lot of the Career section might look unsourced, until you follow the Wikilinks. I, for one, don't mind following the Wikilinks. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:21, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose vast swaths of article are uncited, including most of his biography and his entire filmography and discography. Scuba 16:26, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Pete Rose

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Article: Pete Rose (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [1]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

– Muboshgu (talk) 23:14, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would not say that Rose was the face of baseball. However, I would be willing to support a blurb as he does have the most hits (a record unlikely to be broken). Unfortunately, I am doubtful that a blurb is happening, as he is not a Pele or a Maradona. Natg 19 (talk) 18:31, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not ready: a few CN tags. Once article is of good quality, support RD (major figure in a major sport), but oppose blurb.
-insert valid name here- (talk) 17:38, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb. Not that much famous or transformative. BilboBeggins (talk) 21:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is an interesting situation, because Rose is 100% worthy of the HOF based on his baseball accomplishments. But he has been denied entry due to gambling and was "banned" from baseball. Natg 19 (talk) 15:43, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're really going to use that argument against Rose? Scuba 20:22, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Orange tag for inadequate sourcing in the Records and achievements section. There are also multiple footnote-deficient paragraphs the rest of the prose. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 11:25, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Israel launches a ground operation in Lebanon

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Article: 2024 invasion of Lebanon (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Israel launches a ground invasion of Lebanon aimed to clear Hezbollah's border infrastructure. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Israel launches a cross-border ground operation in Lebanon aimed to clear Hezbollah's border infrastructure.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Israel launches a ground invasion of Lebanon as part of the current Israel–Hezbollah conflict
Alternative blurb III: ​ Israel begins a ground operation in Lebanon aimed to clear Hezbollah's border infrastructure.
News source(s): https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/09/30/israel-lebanon-hezbollah-hamas-war-news-gaza/
Credits:

Yet another escalation to Israel's war against Hezbollah. Not sure if "invasion" or "operation" is correct here, so I added both as altblurbs. Article isn't up to ITN levels yet. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:21, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This was added to ongoing several days ago, listed as Israel–Hezbollah conflict. Natg 19 (talk) 22:49, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I think its reasonable to say that this invasion/operation is covered by ongoing Hungry403 (talk) 02:12, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No more reasonable than to say the same about Hassan Nasrallah's featured and connected murder; once combined, they can roll off together and whatever happens afterward can remain Ongoing (unless it's bigger, maybe). InedibleHulk (talk) 03:21, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment With respect, "It's covered by ongoing" is not, without more, a useful contribution to this notability discussion. There is no ITNC rule which states that the two are mutually exclusive and there are obviously some circumstances where a blurb for a major development within an ongoing conflict is necessary. IMHO, future discussion should address the actual substance of whether it is a sufficiently notable development to merit a blurb.
As for my personal view, I would wait and then support for accuracy - if the scale of the incursions is as big as initial reports, this is one of the most geopolitical notable events of the decade and marks a major spread of active boots on the ground warfare in the Middle East. The article is not there yet though and that is owing in part to the situation still rapidly evolving/literally under way overnight as we speak. FlipandFlopped ツ 04:06, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - This is basically the biggest development in the conflict since October 7th, even with ongoing this is a major development that is notable enough to be blurbed. The ongoing item should probably be renamed to something like 'Israeli invasion of Lebanon' (maybe rephrase somehow to reflect Hezbollah being the main target rather than Lebanon itself). PrecariousWorlds (talk) 08:27, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom and above. TyphoonAmpil [citation needed] 09:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alternative blurb II. We really shouldn't be putting Netanyahu's POV so explicitly on our main page. Netanyahu claims this is a "limited ground operation", similar to how Putin claims the invasion of Ukraine was "a special operation". Let's not take sides and just state the facts.VR (Please ping on reply) 09:56, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can an admin WP:SNOW move the article before it gets posted? I see 22 supports to 1 oppose.VR (Please ping on reply) 09:58, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can someone explain why this isn't covered by the Hezbollah ongoing we added only 4 days ago in a discussion that contemplated this very invasion? Nfitz (talk) 12:17, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    After reflection, this is just too big not to blurb. Support but remove from ongoing until this rolls off and remove the current assassination blurb (but post this at top). Support Alt 2. Sorry User:Kcmastrpc. Nfitz (talk) 12:28, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No need to apologize, you're making good arguments. I would lean towards support if the ground incursion could be confirmed larger in scope, but at the moment it appears to be targeted and limited. If that changes, then I will reconsider my position. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:46, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's hard to tell what they are thinking. Aggressors frequently play down their operations for logistical reason. And on the other hand, if Iran does, as the US is claiming they are about to do, and launch ballistic missiles at Israel, will we see yet another blurb? And another when USA fires ballistic missiles at Iran? I keep flipping on this. Nfitz (talk) 16:28, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Per above, the point of ongoing was to capture the evolving headlines that arose out of this conflict, including the well anticipated ground incursion. What's the use of ongoing if we're just going to blurb every major development on this topic? Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:22, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If it wasn't for the lesser development currently still posted on its own, I'd hear you. You're making perfect sense, clearly. But there's a cognitive dissonance (in me), and we all know that's what everyone wants stopped at all costs (in each's own). So what? Pull it? InedibleHulk (talk) 12:38, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, I'd considered that, but I had also opposed the posting of the HQ strike as a standalone blurb. The pager attack seemed novel and what turned out to be the beginning of a very deliberate campaign by Israel, so that seemed warranted. If this develops into a full blown invasion, per above, I could be convinced to support a blurb, but at the moment this is a well-anticipated (albeit sad) development in an ongoing conflict. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:51, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not sad for the children of the profiteers (and their children), at least, who also need to eat. Tolerance and wisdom are complicated, sometimes too winding. I haven't quite !voted either way yet, technically, so I'll let you choose for me and then just try not to think about it. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:00, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I feel that the addition of "ongoing" a few days ago is enough for now Tradediatalk 14:11, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As per above, I believe this shouldn't just be ongoing since it is such a major escalation. Support for Levivich's suggestion, and push it to the top as well Sharrdx (talk) 14:35, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and support swapping out Israel-Hezbollah war for this article in ongoing. Scuba 16:28, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait - I'm going to change my mind again. This is moving too quickly, and all the blurbs are likely out of date with Iran's attack. Let's see what happens in the next few hours. Nfitz (talk) 16:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I think adding this would be having far too many stories about this conflict in a fortnight, that's what we have ongoing for. Even, if this does end up getting posted then Nasrallah's death news should be removed. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:11, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose It’s a highly notable development, hence a weak oppose rather than a full one, but between the airstrikes (that ended up pulled), death of Nasrallah, this, and now the Iranian missile strikes, we don’t want to overwhelm ITN solely with blurbs relating to this conflict - that’s literally why we added it to ongoing. The Kip (contribs) 17:24, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm satisfied with the combined blurb. The Kip (contribs) 00:39, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose covered by an ongoing entry. LiamKorda 17:49, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Gavin Creel

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Article: Gavin Creel (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Thriley (talk) 18:36, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Humberto Ortega

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Article: Humberto Ortega (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): France24
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nicaraguan general, brother to President Daniel. Article needs work but we can expect substantial obits to make it easier. Innisfree987 (talk) 18:08, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose vast swaths of the article are uncited. Scuba 16:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose majority of the information on the article is unsourced. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I believe I’ve now addressed or removed all unsourced material. Innisfree987 (talk) 06:11, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Dikembe Mutombo

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Article: Dikembe Mutombo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [2]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

– Muboshgu (talk) 15:04, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support: Article looks in shape. Death of a legend. Prodrummer619 (talk) 18:31, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article is in good shape. Scuba 16:47, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article seems in a good shape. It is ready to be posted. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:15, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Decision needed) Ratcliffe-on-Soar Power Station closure

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Article: Ratcliffe-on-Soar Power Station (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The last coal-fired power station in the United Kingdom, Ratcliffe-on-Soar Power Station, closes after 142 years of country's fossil fuel usage. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The last coal-fired power station in the United Kingdom, Ratcliffe-on-Soar Power Station, closes 142 years since the first use of coal power there during the Industrial Revolution.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Ratcliffe-on-Soar (pictured), the last coal-fired power station in the United Kingdom, closes.
News source(s): CNN, BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Although national level, this looks like a certain milestone with the background of Industrial Revolution that will probably be mentioned in the textbooks on clean energy and history. Brandmeistertalk 13:59, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Added altblurb1 as per suggestion by UndercoverClassicist, as not to imply the UK has moved away from fossil fuels. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:13, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose sadly this is the type of article and story that falls between the gap of ITN and DYK. The news is interesting but on the significance of news, very minor (if this meant the UK was fully on nuclear and renewables, that might be different), and the article is not appropriate for DYK due to age and small update size. I'd love to find a solution for these interesting news blips with good quality articles to be featured, and maybe that is ITN but we'd need to tighten down how these are selected as well. Masem (t) 15:52, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose belongs in a did you know blurb, not ITN. Scuba 15:48, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose I believe that this is an interesting development and important enough to be on ITN, but the part of the article covering the actual closure of the plant is too short. It should be expanded or made into another article entirely. Hungry403 (talk) 02:20, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 
Coal production by country
  • It was Margaret Thatcher's Conservative government that broke the power of the coal miners and pushed for alternatives. I did some work on the government's systems at that time and was impressed at seeing the Payable Order for the regular subsidy for the National Coal Board as it was about £600M. You see deep coal mining was uneconomic then and it's even more so now. Open cast mining is much cheaper and great quantities of it are shovelled up in Australia to be burnt in China's power stations. UK coal production peaked at about 300 million tons a year but that was a hundred years ago. China now consumes over ten times that. It's their coal usage that matters most. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:16, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Kind of puts things in perspective, alas? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:10, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Park Ji-ah

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Article: Park Ji-ah (actress, born 1972) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Korea Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

South Korean actress. 240F:7A:6253:1:A4F3:9501:BEE:C932 (talk) 08:24, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose article consists of a single sentence about her divorce, and an uncited filmography. needs major work to be in good enough shape. Scuba 17:06, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Typhoon Krathon

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(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
Closing per WP:SNOW. I think we all know where this is going. For the third time, tropical storm-related articles should be nominated after the damages caused by the storm becomes clear. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 05:38, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Typhoon Krathon (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Typhoon Krathon (pictured) leaves at least 1 people dead in the Philippines and Taiwan. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Typhoon Krathon (pictured) leaves at least one people dead in the Philippines and Taiwan.
News source(s): [3] [4] [5]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Category 4-equivalent typhoon, Very strong typhoon on JMA. TyphoonAmpil [citation needed] 04:13, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wait or close. This nomination suffers from many of the same issues as the first nomination of Hurricane Helene for ITN. Currently, no significant impacts have been caused by Krathon. Though this may change should its forecasted landfall on Taiwan verify, it is inappropriate to nominate this to ITN before the fact. ArkHyena (talk) 04:31, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for more significant impacts, as per the Hurricane Helene nomination. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 04:50, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

September 29

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September 29, 2024 (2024-09-29) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(posted) RD: Rohan de Saram

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Article: Rohan de Saram (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Telegraph
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Influential cellist from Sri Lanka, trained in Italy, England and by Pablo Casals, who worked for decades with the major composers of contemporary classical music at his time, as the cellist of the Arditti Quartet and in other formations. I'm not where I want to be with the article but will be away for a day. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:16, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is good enough to be posted, however, it would be better if the life and career section is broken down into different sections. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 14:22, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I did that, and added another ref. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:15, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Stoika Milanova

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Article: Stoika Milanova (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Strad
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bulgarian violinist who made an international career after winning some important competitions, playing at the Proms and in Japan, and teaching for years in Venezuela and then Bulgaria. Her father was a violin teacher, her sister a pianist, and her daughter another violinist. Much of the article was there because of the competitions and the Proms. More reviews would be nice. I need to turn to a cellist. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:15, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is in a good enough shape to be posted. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:48, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Richard S. Hamilton

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Article: Richard S. Hamilton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [6]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

One of the most influential geometers of the last 50 years passed away Sep. 29. It was reported on blogs at the time and today has been confirmed by his department. Gumshoe2 (talk) 21:57, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ozzie Virgil Sr.

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Article: Ozzie Virgil Sr. (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Detroit Free Press
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

First Domincan-born player in Major League Baseball. —Bagumba (talk) 07:40, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Nepal floods

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Article: 2024 Nepal floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Flooding in Nepal leaves at least 193 people dead. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Flooding in Nepal leaves at least 193 people dead, including 37 in the nation's capital, Kathmandu
News source(s): Economic Times, Reuters, NPR
Credits:

Article updated

Flooding caused by the heaviest rainfall in the country's recent history, with a death toll that's likely to rise. ForsythiaJo (talk) 02:23, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Austrian legislative election

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Article: 2024 Austrian legislative election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The far-right Freedom Party of Austria wins a plurality of votes in the 2024 Austrian legislative election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Freedom Party of Austria wins a plurality in the 2024 Austrian legislative election.
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: National election per ITN/R; preliminary results announced. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:00, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 28

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September 28, 2024 (2024-09-28) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Sports

RD: Winfield Dunn

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Article: Winfield Dunn (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former governor of Tennessee. 240F:7A:6253:1:D454:FB13:C677:B659 (talk) 03:28, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Drake Hogestyn

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Article: Drake Hogestyn (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [8], [9]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Happily888 (talk) 16:36, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Kris Kristofferson

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Article: Kris Kristofferson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety, CNN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

– Muboshgu (talk) 22:41, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Czech Senate election

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Article: 2024 Czech Senate election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Opposition party ANO led by Andrej Babiš (pictured) wins the most contested seats during the 2024 Czech Senate election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the 2024 Czech Senate election, opposition party ANO (leader Andrej Babiš pictured) wins the most contested seats, while the governing Spolu alliance maintains its majority.
News source(s): AP politico
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: National election per ITN/R, also the results have caused several ministers in the government to resign. Scuba 15:46, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Is the blurb even correct? While ANO did do better than at any other Senate election and was the single party that gained most seats, it only won 8 seats, while the SPOLU coalition won 15 (according to the article). SPOLU also still has the majority in the Senate, given only one third of the seats were up for election. Also, not sure we should post the elections results for an upper chamber with only quite limited powers. Khuft (talk) 18:01, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, the blurbs are misleading. Per OPs AP source, the ruling coalition is still has majority in the senate, the blurbs implies otherwise. Edit: Comment withdrawn as blurbs have changed significantly since posting. 31.44.224.222 (talk) 20:54, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality as the article is far too short. Propose ALT1 as well - sums things up a bit clearer. The Kip (contribs) 03:42, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I don't think we typically tend to cover upper house elections that are on the off-year from the lower house ones, and to my understanding I don't believe it has resulted in a change of government either. Ornithoptera (talk) 09:47, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - the Czech Senate (like most upper houses) is relatively powerless. Also, this for only 1/3 of the seats. It's the lower-house election that is of note in this country. Nfitz (talk) 16:23, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Brisbane Lions win the 2024 AFL Grand Final

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Article: 2024 AFL Grand Final (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the Australian Football League, the Brisbane Lions win the 2024 AFL Grand Final after defeating the Sydney Swans by 60 points for their first premiership win since 2003. (Post)
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

(Posted) 2024 Hezbollah headquarters strike

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Article: Assassination of Hassan Nasrallah (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Leader of Hezbollah Hassan Nasrallah (pictured) is killed following airstrikes in Beirut. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Secretary-General of Hezbollah Hassan Nasrallah (pictured) is assassinated in an Israeli airstrike in Dahieh, Lebanon.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Secretary-General of Hezbollah Hassan Nasrallah (pictured) is murdered together with his underage daughter by an Israeli airstrike in Dahieh, Lebanon.
News source(s): BBC, Al Jazeera, AP
Credits:

If confirmed, this will be a massive escalation regarding the situation in the Middle East. Ornithoptera (talk) 09:14, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This will take time to clarify what happened, so I would wait. Also, there is a disputed tag on the article. Tone 09:18, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - very notable that my father woke me up cus of it Abo Yemen✉ 12:23, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*Wait until confirmed by local or other independent sources. Prodrummer619 (talk) 10:34, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yikes to the original oppose, even bigger yikes for the rationale and subsequent comments. AusLondonder (talk) 14:46, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
However, the article's first sentence states " the secretary-general of Hezbollah, was assassinated . . ."Light show (talk) 21:33, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure that's the case. Whichever is not properly reflecting the RS ought to be edited to bring it into alignment. 'Fraid I can't help ya there, because it's one of those articles which is why eg it is under WP:GS. I don't go near 'em, since (even w/stuff like sanctions) they are toxic firepits of people there to engage in combat in their outside-WP disputes on WP (just, for the more careful, politely so they don't wind up at the business end of Arbcom enforcement actions) as another battleground, not to work on neutral encyclopedia articles. Not the sort of thing I like to engage myself in as an uncompensated volunteer hobby. (Understand that this being true for many people is the ultimate cause of "why there are these Issues™ with content in Contentious Topic Areas" in the first place.) Slowking Man (talk) 00:09, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi, don't know how to request this in a formal way but if someone is able to give me ITN recognition for the nomination, that would be appreciated! Ornithoptera (talk) 18:13, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Ornithoptera done! The Kip (contribs) 18:15, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you The Kip! Apologies, I know this definitely was not the right venue to ask but I wasn't sure where else to do so. If anyone does know what is the best way to do so, please let me know! Ornithoptera (talk) 18:17, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Please don't embolden the critics of ITN, this is very much "in the news" on a global basis, is clearly highly significant and we have a reasonable and improving article to link to. AusLondonder (talk) 18:18, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting stating what ought to be obvious: WP simply goes with what "the sources" are saying. "Killed/assassinated" is obviously the correct wording to use: whichever the preponderance of RS are using. (Frankly I would personally prefer a simple bright-line policy of always using "dies/is killed" for all deaths period no exceptions. "X died" is a simple objective neutral statement about facts of observable verifiable testable external physical reality: Is X dead, or not? Do they currently have ongoing cardiopulmonary function, Y/N? Everything else is already delving head-first into the realm of subjectivity and opinions, which are things intrinsically not falsifiable, not ever "true/false" or "correct/not correct". Hence these are things people can and do argue and disagree with others about, endlessly, a pastime they need to take to someplace other than WP appropriate to such matters. "Assassination", at least, has the generally-accepted meaning "an intentional killing done with political motives/intent".) --Slowking Man (talk) 20:13, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull Currently the page is NPOV and V orange tagged. Kcmastrpc (talk) 21:27, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The solution, besides just "never post Contentious Topics on the main page at all period", which I suspect might not find a consensus in favor of doing, is probably a policy of automatically full-protecting any such article while it is on main, and forking a /Draft subpage where people can work on a newer version. After its time on the main page is through, the draft can be merged back to the article. (Any major Issues identified in the fullprot version can be handled by edit request, something already a part of the protection policy.) There would be no showstopper problems with doing this; Mediawiki makes it fairly simple. WP:There is no deadline, and for topics touched upon by BLP it's more important to "get it right the first time". Priority #1 is to serve readers. --Slowking Man (talk) 14:03, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep for now This is odd, almost makes me feel someone purposefully trying to add orange tags to remove it from the main page. Either way, this is literally THE in the news story. I havent seen a story so in the news since the start of the russian invasion of the ukraine. keep it up! Kasperquickly (talk) 15:56, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've lost count on how many times the tags have been reintroduced at this point. WP:ARBPIA is an incredibly contentious topic area and it's not uncommon for articles in this space to find themselves orange tagged. I would presume admins would know this and be wary of featuring articles on the front page that are so heavily sanctioned. I concur with @Slowking Man that caution should be exercised in this area and full protection be introduced for the duration the article is features on the main page. Kcmastrpc (talk) 20:29, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fully agree with full protection of all ARBPIA articles that go on the main page. VR (Please ping on reply) 01:44, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Such articles are commonly dominated by partisans who try to spin them to their side. If you protect such a page then you freeze it with a particular partisan POV. This is a significant quality issue as WP:NPOV is a core policy. Such topics are best left to the high-level overview of the Ongoing entries. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:53, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I have no strong feelings on the idea, but policy already allows for reversion of a fullprot article to an earlier version without "problematic" content, as well as for admins to copy over to the prot version changes which gain consensus on the talk page. The intent is to halt edit warring and force people to discuss, not to "prefer" whichever version "wins" and manages to "make it in" right before the page is protected. Slowking Man (talk) 15:44, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is the second time I check the article in order to fix whatever caused the orange tag so that the article can stay in the main page, only to find out that there was nothing to fix. In the talk page they said that the article had to mention that Hezbola says that they would cease the hostilities if Israel stops its operations at Gaza, but the article already says that. Cambalachero (talk) 12:44, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 27

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September 27, 2024 (2024-09-27) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Abbas Nilforoushan

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Article: Abbas Nilforoushan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-vows-revenge-for-top-irgc-officer-killed-in-beirut-strike-that-took-out-nasrallah/
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Iranian brigadier general of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. 18:38, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Support a little short, but properly cited. Scuba 16:45, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Fabián Caballero

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Article: Fabián Caballero (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Mirror
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Argentine-Paraguayan professional footballer.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:09, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Pappammal

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Article: Pappammal (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times of India
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Indian organic farmer. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 04:40, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted: first RD, then blurb) Blurb/RD: Maggie Smith

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Article: Maggie Smith (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  British actress Maggie Smith (pictured) dies at age of 89. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Famous actress. Household name and winner of the Triple Crown of Acting. Davey2116 (talk) 13:34, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support blurb She was an very famous actress and had some really famous iconic roles throughout her career and has won two Oscars. LiamKorda 14:31, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Now Supporting RD Article is much improved. Neutral on a blurb. She was certainly an important figure, but we have been routinely declining to blurb other giants in the field. "One can't go to pieces at the death of every foreigner. We'd all be in a constant state of collapse whenever we opened a newspaper." Lady Violet, Dowager Countess of Grantham -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:30, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Very Strong Support Blurb I believe this worldwide famous actor should be featured. She has been the star of many films including both Downton Abbeys and has captured the hearts of many, such a shame we have lost such an icon of the film industry.
The photo does need to be updated on the Wikipedia page, but I strongly support this blurb. 2H-Writer (talk) 15:27, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The photo is from the period when she won her first Oscar. That's the period where she became most celebrated. We don't need to bow to populism - she was more than Harry Potter and Downton; her damehood, for example, preceded those roles. Humbledaisy (talk) 15:47, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Blurb The article is still being edited, and she doesn't have enough due weight to merit a blurb. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 15:59, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD, oppose blurb per conversations around James Earl Jones and other recent actors. Scuba 18:53, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that James Earl Jones could and should have been blurbed but wasn't won't have influence the decision to blurb another person. BilboBeggins (talk) 19:03, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Bummer, but if the consensus is Jones didn't deserve a blurb, than Smith doesn't deserve one either. Scuba 19:22, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
IMO as an actress and in achievements, Smith was several rungs above Jones. Cart (talk) 20:12, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To prove my point, Swedish radio is just doing a tribute program to Smith, Jones wasn't even mentioned on the news. Cart (talk) 20:35, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure that the consensus was that James Earl Jones didn't deserve one - the discussion timed out, but there was a majority in favour. The problem is that every time a non-political figure is nominated for a blurb, there's a hard core of RD regulars who have their own (not necessarily matching) criteria that they repeatedly assert are the death-blurb criteria, and they make every discussion of this kind into a battleground to try and win once and for all. I'm heartily sick of it. We have too few stories reaching ITN as it is, and this just makes these kinds of nominations a bitter business to have to deal with. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb. Won Academy Award two times, was in spotlight for around sixty years. A larger than life personality that was a household name and worldwide known, so the information about her death will be useful to many people. BilboBeggins (talk) 19:06, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • RD only - Many notable scientists are mentioned in RD only, so famous actors should fall in the same ballpark. -Abhishikt (talk) 19:20, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for RD. Definitely a legendary actor of long experience and achievements - Triple Crown actors are far from common. Article looks thoroughly sourced now. I am not certain if she does or does not merit a blurb, for my part. Challenger l (talk) 19:30, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb She is an actress at the top of her field, with a career spanning decades (including recent award-winning roles), who has a rare "triple crown" of victories. If she is not nominated, then we may as well just set the precedent that no blurbs for actors or actress who die of natural causes ought be posted because this is as notable as you can get. FlipandFlopped ツ 19:34, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, absolutely and finally, we may as well just set the precedent. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:43, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think it would be a bad thing if we decided that politicians' lives deserve special mention and leading cultural figures do not. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This goes for all purely tributary RDs, with lives general audiences remember but deaths featuring age. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:55, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Certainly consistent and a view I can see myself being a little sympathetic to. All I want is some objective criteria/on, to avoid recurring angels, pin, etc debates revolving around subjective things like "major and influential". (I would in the event such a thing were adopted suggest making RD a bit more visible/"standing out". Might need to tweak the main page layout a little. Also a "temporarily 'pinning' high-traffic RDs so they don't get pushed off quickly" thing would be a good idea, to better serve readers.) Slowking Man (talk) 00:42, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That creates a bias towards popular topics, which we should absolutely not be doing, since that will weigh far more in favor of Western/English ones. Masem (t) 00:55, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The die in that regard was cast the moment the English Wikipedia decided to have an "In the news" section on the "front page" (so to speak), since that, naturally, is going to reflect most closely what is currently "in the English-language news". Unless the project and WMF bent over backwards to attract lots of polyglot en-speakers to enwp, and, if anything more importantly, to keep them engaged and willingly contributing to the project. Or, something like retaining a paid bureau of professional translators for WP to call upon to translate content into English. Kind of hard to write things reliably about things covered mostly by sources you can't understand. (For ex. serious historians (meaning people whose job titles are things like "Professor of X History", not people making "pop history" Content™) basically must learn at least some of the languages relevant to their chosen field(s) of study, eg historians of the ancient Mediterranean world will as a matter of course pick up at the least some ancient Latin and Greek.)
    The Old Grey Lady and the Beeb aren't going to focus some of their resources on greater coverage of not-majority English-as-first-lang parts of the world because some people at Wikipedia asked them to very politely, I'm afraid. The only other way, under WP's control, to cut through that Gordian knot (mixing some metaphors tonight) is to deep-six the ITN section altogether. Slowking Man (talk) 01:21, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    While it is true the news (and topics at ITN) will weigh more heavily on Western media, we absolutely do not need to perpetuate that bias that by the suggestion that we keep a highly-viewed/popular article in the ITN box longer than other items (the "temporarily pinning" idea). That's a facet we absolutely can control to minimize our own biases. Masem (t) 02:30, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Is it what readers want, Y/N? Asking rhetorically as I certainly don't know myself. That's the thing that matters most. (I would be thrilled with a well-designed survey of a representative sample of main page visitors (logged-in or not) about things of this nature. Sounds like something the WMF could stand to devote some resources to! I believe there have in fact been at least a couple of such things in the past about certain topics?) Slowking Man (talk) 03:27, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If we go by what readers want, we'd basically be writing a popular culture TVTropes wiki, and that's how WP was when it was first created but has moved well beyond that. We know that some topics will draw more interest, but our goal being on the main page is to feature a wide range of topics including those people do not know anything about as well as the familiar. We should absolutely not give excessive weight to popular topics, which is why we routinely ignore those !votes that claim we should be driving ITN via pageviews. Masem (t) 03:54, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Additional comment and with regards to everyone complaining about the inconsistency if she is posted but not James Earl Jones... I completely agree. JEJ should have been posted, and that was a bad decision on the community's part. But two wrongs a right does not make. FlipandFlopped ツ 19:43, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD, neutral on blurb. Obviously a very important figure. -insert valid name here- (talk) 20:19, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb - greatly awarded and prolific actor, with an exceptionally long career. I'm not sure saying she isn't a famous politician, or what-aboutims mean much. Nfitz (talk) 20:29, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ready for RD, based on when I previously commented, the only sourcing issue I see is confirming a notable movie co-starring credit which is trivial to fix. All CNs have been addressed. --Masem (t) 20:34, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting as RD; blurb discussion ongoing (give me a few minutes to post it correctly; it's been a minute). Among the half dozen people who bothered to mention article quality (instead of the RD/blurb worthiness feud), there's a consensus the article is ready now. The article seems solid, and a lot of readers will be interested in seeing it now, rather than in 3 days when the RD/blurb issue is done. So I'm posting as an RD, and the discussion about a blurb can continue. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:40, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very strong support blurb. She has been an iconic, top-notch actress (especially in movies) for decades who won dozens of awards (multiple times), and has worked for many famous pop culture works. Blurb now. 64.114 etc 21:56, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
VS Support per 64.114 etc and others. 2605:8D80:325:5E2:C5D1:A387:2E8:5DFD (talk) 22:18, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also a very strong support. The reviews are reasonable. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:6C6D:3321:DFBB:31D2 (talk) 22:51, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • For those pushing for a blurb, you would strongly help your case by using the numerous obits that have come out to show how much of an impact or legacy she has in her field. There's a rather large number of these (compared even to JEJ) so there's fair game for a blurb, but let's please have stronger evidence based (via sources) that shows this is what reliable sources also state, rather than making original research claims here. --Masem (t) 23:27, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is a reasonable request. I'd much rather this was both the tone and the direction in these kinds of discussions. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I most assuredly do not like Harry Potter. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Never cared for HP, loathe JKR. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 23:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb - not transformative, not in the upper echelon of famous and important actors. Can easily tell the story of film/television without her. Not especially well-known. I don't think a minor role in one of the most successful franchises of all time should mean very much. 2601:5C2:0:A6F0:5D8A:2DAE:87E0:4CF7 (talk) 03:01, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just realized I wasn't logged in - replying for attribution purposes. LocoTacoFever (talk) 03:04, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
'Not especially well-known' - this claim, in particular, is in the teeth of the evidence. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, 'either a serving head of state or government, or died in a notable manner' is not and never has been the unique criterion for these things, and your repeated thumping on it does not make it so. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And neither have popularity. 31.44.224.222 (talk) 15:08, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Page views show what has been read, the purpose of ITN is direct people to things we would like them to read. The causal connection runs the wrong way. Please for the love of all that's holy stop citing page views as evidence. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The page views show the level of interest and coverage. But not everyone follows the news closely and so ITN helps those who may have missed the announcement. And another goal is to "to emphasize Wikipedia as a dynamic resource". This is best done by posting blurbs frequently rather having a static, stale selection. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:05, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Aside from the fact her name is already on the front page, with a handy link, over 2 million people found there was to the article without the need for a blurb. I'm not sure people will have missed the news elsewhere and only be able to see it if it's blurbed here... - SchroCat (talk) 09:24, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not meaning this in any hostile kind of way, but I sincerely don't get where in WP:ITNPURPOSE the things we would like them to read stuff follows from. The closest-seeming part to me is point 3: To point readers to subjects they might not have been looking for but nonetheless may interest them. But that only talks about things we think they may take interest in, upon seeing them presented at ITN. (Which already is kind of a problematic matter of us trying to predict readers' desires and interests, since most aren't freely volunteering that information without even being asked.) Also I will note that bullet point #1 is about helping main page visitors get quickly to things "in the news" they might be searching for (I don't know whether this is intended to reflect any kind of "ranking").
A principle always important to note regarding statistics (such as page views) is they only tell you what they measure, not what they don't. It may be that page view figure represents just about everyone in the world who visits enwp semi-regularly and has interest in reading an article about X. It's also possible a bunch more people exist who would be interested if it were more prominently highlighted. You can't know either way based upon that stat. (Somewhat relatedly: "[A] dissatisfied customer does not complain: he just switches." Oliver Beckwith (1947), an adage often referenced by W. Edwards Deming.) Slowking Man (talk) 02:07, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A good source showing illustrious career: "Maggie herself was determined to remind her audience – and to reassure herself – that she had played opposite Olivier, played Hedda Gabler for Ingmar Bergman, made films with John Ford, George Cukor, Joe Mankiewicz"[11] BilboBeggins (talk) 08:32, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb - I saw a bit of discussion about James Earl Jones earlier in this nomination, asking why he wasn't blurbed but the consensus is leaning towards Maggie Smith getting one. I was one of those people who argued against James Earl Jones being blurbed and I stand by it; JEJ was a popular and highly-esteemed actor but I would argue Smith was a few rungs above him; like JEJ, she was widely known for roles in popular franchises but she was more closely associated with those roles than he was by virtue of them not being voice parts. I am not suggesting voice acting is less important than acting but, from a recognition angle, a lot of people around the world wouldn't recognise James Earl Jones as the actor who voiced Darth Vader and I would suggest many more would be able to identify Maggie Smith as McGonagall and Crawley. Being a recognisable face from something people can stream on Netflix only gets you so far, of course. What is more important is that Smith was one of the very most celebrated and decorated actors of her generation. You only need to look at her lede - two acting Oscars, five BAFTAs, four Emmys, three Golden Globes, a Tony, the BFI fellowship and the Bafta fellowship. She was awarded a CBE in 1970, a higher order than the OBE Judi Dench received that same year, and became a dame way back in 1990. She was consistently high-profile whether working in film, television or the theatre. She qualifies from all directions, in my opinion. When it comes to living actors born in the first half of the 1930s, there aren't many others who I think would qualify - maybe Clint Eastwood, Michael Caine, Judi Dench, Sophia Loren and that's yer lot. Humbledaisy (talk) 13:11, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good exposition, thanks. It’s been 24 hours, and in my view consensus is clearly in favor of a blurb. Let’s have an admin step up and do the right thing. Jusdafax (talk) 14:35, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Vote Tally By my count, the current tally is 28 votes in support to 16 opposed (just a few votes shy of a 2:1 ratio). I don't think this ratio is likely to significantly change, so a passing admin should probably assess and make a decision. FlipandFlopped ツ 16:53, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Consensus is not vote count driven, it is strength of the arguments. Masem (t) 17:06, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The best argument for giving Smith a blurb, is to just read the article where all of her accomplishments during an unusually long career are heaped for all to see. We are into day two of this, and this is still front page stuff. [12] [13] [14]. I also agree with Andrew's comment that it's about high time we give another woman an RD blurb. The irony of writing this while reading the top banner on this page (Celebrate Women's Voices: Join the #SheSaid Campaign!) is not lost on me. Cart (talk) 18:20, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Accomplishments are nice, but that doesn't necessarily equate to being the type of major/great figure in their field; anyone with a long career in entertainment likely will have a similar list of awards. I've commented above that obits and other sources since her death have far more beyond simple accomplishments to flesh a much stronger legacy section to make the blurb case far more sensible since we are giving the reader context for why we are featuring her death. Masem (t) 00:53, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Exactly my thoughts. I'm finding it really disappointing that there are several people in this discussion who are completely ignoring WP:OTHERSTUFF and opposing purely on the fact that someone else wasn't blurbed. This sort of argument should IMO be considered very weak. 80.42.195.111 (talk) 19:12, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's the stupidest thing ever, why even bother to vote if the votes don't count? Scuba 21:00, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No one said "votes don't count", but consensus is not determined by vote count. This is one of Wikipedia's tenets, and is further clarified at WP:NHC Consensus is not determined by counting heads or counting votes, nor is it determined by the closer's own views about what action or outcome is most appropriate. The closer is there to judge the consensus of the community, after discarding irrelevant arguments. Natg 19 (talk) 21:14, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb per above. Yes, I'm still salty JEJ wasn't posted, but let's not make that mistake again for someone who very clearly meets the bar. The Kip (contribs) 18:13, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There was no reason for a blurb on JEJ. Maggie Smith is significantly better known and more so around the world. Still, I'm neutral on a blurb, I wonder if we're going to blurb Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks, Merryl Streep, Dustin Hoffman, Clint Eastwood etc.
    I again remind everyone that Alain Delon didn't get an RD. This is clear Anglo Saxon imperialism Varoon2542 (talk) 19:36, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Smith has a triple handicap when it comes to ITN, wasn't from the US, she's a woman and she's not famous for any sports achievement. Cart (talk) 19:40, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    James Earl Jones was a male American actor who had a similar amount of notability as Smith & he wasn’t blurbed. Most people who’ve been blurbed in 2024 haven’t been Americans. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:23, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Don't forget, never held high natl. elective office/otherwise was a head of state (eg monarch). (As far as I know? Free fanfic idea for the taking there!) Slowking Man (talk) 00:47, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Being a woman has never been a handicap for notability when it comes to actresses Varoon2542 (talk) 15:12, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Delon wasn’t blurbed due to article quality issues. I’d note that Jean-Luc Godard did get a death blurb. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:10, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Alain Delon didn't got RD because his article was a mess, filed with unsourced and unnecessary statements. That wasn't due to any "Anglo Saxon imperialism". ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 05:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. A wonderful actress, but she didn't transform the profession. Jheald (talk) 19:44, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb A high profile actress. ArionStar (talk) 22:16, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb: I am not against non-politicians getting blurbed, but I just don't feel Maggie Smith has had the same impact in the world of acting/entertainment as other actors who have died recently.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 03:59, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Admins willing to post ITN: Could someone come to a decision whether to blurb or not? BangJan1999 04:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For those who want the article to be posted I would rather suggest adding more to legacy section, using obits. The Guardian, for instance, provided much cover, but there are also Variety articles. BilboBeggins (talk) 07:53, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb—A true icon. Kurtis (talk) 11:37, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb - If we had as our RD criteria: transformative of our hearts and minds (and therefore a major figure in their field), then Maggie Smith at the very least should have an RD photo posted here. My autistic son (age 29) had tears in his eyes when he told me about her death as he was frantically texting his mom. That’s how we know that someone deserves a blurb. Trauma Novitiate (talk) 12:05, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not trying to be mean but I hope you do realise that what brings tears to the eyes of your son is pretty much irrelevent here. Indians cry when a famous actor dies but he or she doesn't usually get a blurb or even an RD. There's a world outside your own cultural zone Varoon2542 (talk) 16:55, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb – The "Legacy" subsection of her article is only a list of awards and accolades, no in-depth analysis of how transformative her work allegedly was. Though Smith may have achieved a higher amount of awards than others, collecting awards is something most high-profile actors/actresses achieve. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 15:40, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It would help if editors !voting support could provide sources that show that she was transformative. See also Masem's comments above. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 15:48, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment - I don’t disagree with your assessment. But the protocol for assessment and approval of an RD/Blurb is flawed. Just look at Fredric Jameson’s RD below before it goes off our board. It was only approved a few hours ago. It’s been Ready (in my opinion) for at least 24 hours. But now we’ve run out of time for a meaningful Blurb discussion. I did not realize Fredric Jameson was a leading and transformative figure in his field until I first edited his page 2 days ago. I think it’s fairly obvious that Jameson should’ve been blurbed based on the criteria you and Masem have pointed out. Unfortunately, I don’t really believe Jameson would’ve had a Blurb approved in any case, whether we had a discussion or not. Did anyone else here read his BLP, and realize he was a transformative figure in his field? I doubt it because it was never mentioned. Not to be cynical here. It’s just the reality here in this forum. For an RD to receive serious Blurb consideration, two things must happen: (1) the person nominated must be well-known to the general public (Jameson is not known to the general public and that explains why his RD was all but ignored), and (2) they must be a leading and transformative figure in their own field, and the BLP article must document that with solid/approved sources, citations, and references. That’s why we need to have a compromise and at the very least approve the RD/photo option which, by-the-way, had solid support on our Talk Page this past summer (check the archives for June, July, and August!: 3 months of discussion before it went stale). Jameson should have his photo posted here, at the very least. Just as Maggie Smith should have her photo posted here, too. Nice work you all, I see a picture was posted. Very savvy! - Trauma Novitiate (talk) 20:08, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very strong support blurb, a very iconic actress, who has worked for franchises such as Harry Potter, etc. Article is also good to go. 70.70.59.204 (talk) 19:25, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. Largely agree with Masem. For those citing her work in Harry Potter, is she the protagonist? or anywhere close to that? IIRC, there are ~10 more important characters. The rest of her career is noteworthy too, but I'm not seeing an impact anywhere. I've said before and I'll say again that actors rarely influence other actors' or directors' styles. With JEJ, there's his influence as a trailblazing black actor, but Smith's legacy section is, as has been previously mentioned, just awards. Sincerely, Dilettante 20:07, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted (or at least, I'm about to post this). I've had a read of the entire discussion and weighed votes by their strengths of argument. Poorly argued cases for and against a blurb are about equal. Apart from a handful of neutral votes, the remaining votes for a blurb far outweigh the opposers. The strongest oppose argument, referred to a number of times, is that the legacy section is merely a list of awards and accolades, but does not show her impact on the acting profession. Editors seem to argue that such impacts exist, it's just not documented in the article. Be that as it may, there is rough consensus to post a blurb. Schwede66 22:34, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you. Also, aren't we publishing the news in order of posting? BilboBeggins (talk) 08:47, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Kinda feel her news blurb should be atop Hurricane Helene IMO. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 12:19, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, it should be below. The impact of Hurricane Helene is still being felt. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 15:41, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    BilboBeggins, if you want to find out in which order we post things at ITN, you can read up about it at the administrator instructions. Schwede66 20:36, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Clive Everton

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Article: Clive Everton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Yahoo Sports ,Daily Express, The Guardian, BBC, World Snooker Tour
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Professional snooker and English billiards player.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 10:03, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(On hold until October 1) Shigeru Ishiba / 2024 Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) presidential election

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(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
Clear consensus to wait until October 1, when Ishiba formally assumes office as PM. The Kip (contribs) 23:30, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Articles: Shigeru Ishiba (talk · history · tag) and 2024 Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Shigeru Ishiba (pictured) wins the Japanese Liberal Democratic Party leadership election and will succeed Fumio Kishida as Prime Minister of Japan. (Post)
Credits:

One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
While this is a party election and Ishiba has not yet taken office, it is the politically significant election and is in the news now. Sandstein 09:07, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just a comment that he is expected to take office in four days, so it could be an option to just wait until he is officially Prime Minister. Basil the Bat Lord (talk) 10:16, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I was thinking about. Don't we normally blurb things like this once they take office? Plus Ishiba's Personal life section is unsourced so we could take the time until he assumes office to polish up his article. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 10:39, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until he is officially PM. Scuba 19:07, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as soon as he takes office as Prime Minister. 64.114 etc 21:58, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until he becomes PM, then very strong support. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:6C6D:3321:DFBB:31D2 (talk) 22:51, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. Shigeru Ishiba has not become Prime Minister yet. When he is inaugurated come October 1st, I will also support very strongly. 2605:8D80:325:5E2:4D24:45D6:9490:51F3 (talk) 23:02, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Sayuri

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Article: Sayuri (musician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Anime News Network
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Japanese Singer-Songwriter, known for singing the ED themes for several animes notably My Hero Academia and Lycoris Recoil. Death occured on September 20 but news was only released publicly today. Tofusaurus (talk) 06:40, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 26

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September 26, 2024 (2024-09-26) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

RD: John Ashton

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Article: John Ashton (actor) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hollywood Reporter
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

GreatCaesarsGhost 17:10, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose orange tag needs to be resolved. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:20, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Joe Wolf

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Article: Joe Wolf (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBA.com, AP News, SI: Wisconsin mourns the passing of its greatest high school basketball legend
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American basketball player and coach. 240F:7A:6253:1:189A:8A9A:87CE:E53E (talk) 12:05, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Keki N. Daruwalla

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Article: Keki N. Daruwalla (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The HinduThe Times of India
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Indian poet.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 09:49, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Hurricane Helene makes landfall

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Article: Hurricane Helene (2024) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Hurricane Helene (pictured) makes landfall near Perry, Florida, United States, as a category 4 hurricane. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Hurricane Helene leaves at least 6 people dead across the Southeastern United States.
News source(s): National Hurricane Center
Credits:

Now that the hurricane has made landfall before midnight on the 26, it can be here. Three deaths have been confirmed, as well, but I can't find a good-quality source with all three in one, and the death toll will likely become apparent and easier to cite once this gets posted, which it most likely will be. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 03:20, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have added an altblurb that more aligns with tropical cyclone related blurbs. I do believe "Southeastern United States" is worth having in the blurb because a good chunk of this region has felt the impacts of this system. Still would like to wait a tad for more precise impacts to come in, but I do imagine we'll run this eventually. DarkSide830 (talk) 03:48, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Updates: Flash Flood emergency issued in Atlanta and insured damage range has now been set between 4 and 6 billion dollars (2024 USD). GeorgeMemulous (talk) 14:19, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article is in good shape and the hurricane is now relevant ITN due to making landfall. Scuba 17:33, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Updates: The Lake Lure reservoir in North Carolina is threatened with immediate failure, and per the aggregated total of fatalities on the Helene page, the death toll is now around 30 and likely to continue to rise. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 17:58, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 25

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September 25, 2024 (2024-09-25) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: William Lucy (labor leader)

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Article: William Lucy (labor leader) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://aflcio.org/press/releases/labor-movement-celebrates-extraordinary-life-and-career-bill-lucy
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American trade union leader. 18:23, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

RD: Dick Caine

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Article: Dick Caine (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://swimswam.com/australian-hall-of-fame-swim-coach-dick-caine-charged-in-sexual-abuse-allegations/
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Australian Olympic swimming coach and convicted sex offender. 18:44, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

  • Oppose More than half of the content is about his child sex offences and that violates WP:BLPBALANCE in my books. His bio would have to be expanded quite a bit to address that. As it stands, it's almost an attack page. If there's nothing else to say about him, then it's simply not main page worthy. Schwede66 21:13, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Tropical Storm Helene (2024)

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(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
Consensus to post will clearly not develop at the moment. Nominate this again after the hurricane damage becomes clear. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 22:14, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Tropical Storm Helene (2024) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Tropical Storm Helene (2024) (pictured) currently hitting on Caribbean Sea. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Tropical Storm Helene (2024) (pictured) currently hitting in Caribbean Sea.
News source(s): [15] [16] [17]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: 2024 Atlantic storm. Lowest pressure is 979. Category 3 Hurricane on September 27 †TyphoonAmpil† (💬 - 📝 - 🌀 - Tools) 13:06, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can we wait until there's actual estimates of damage/casualties? Why this frantic hurry to be the first to nominate something? Way too premature. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:47, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose and close WP:CRYSTALBALL. Renominate once this actually impacts land, once deaths / injuries or damage becomes clear. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 14:40, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait. Right now is absolutely not an appropriate time to post this, as Helene's impacts have (so far) been relatively limited and minimal. This may or may not change upon its eventual landfall on the U.S. Gulf Coast, but this is no guarantee of an exceptionally impactful storm yet. ArkHyena (talk) 16:38, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait as with every single storm that is proposed to ITN, the proposer consistently adds it before it's notable. I feel like we should establish some sort of criteria for when to post these, such as when they make landfall, or when they cause significant casualties, but that's beyond the scope of this proposal. Scuba 16:58, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Both "hitting on" and "hitting in" are awkward to use in this context. Hitting on (at least in the U.S.) is a synonym of flirting. Hitting in, on the other hand, I have never heard of the term "hitting in" before, the closest term "hit in" means to target or set a bounty. TansoShoshen (talk) 17:39, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hitting on is more related to sexual harassment I'd think these days. Nfitz (talk) 19:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

September 24

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September 24, 2024 (2024-09-24) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) RD: Michael Sladek

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Article: Michael Sladek (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): taz
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Pioneer of green power together with his wife. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:00, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support meets minimum reqirement. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:18, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Withdrawn) Captain James Fitzjames' remains

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The future refused to change. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:52, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: James Fitzjames (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The remains of HMS Erebus captain James Fitzjames (pictured) are identified after 177 years. (Post)
News source(s): CBC News
Credits:

Article updated
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Peter Jay (diplomat)

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Article: Peter Jay (diplomat) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Needs a bit of work to get it into shape, but should be manageable. - SchroCat (talk) 05:01, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 23

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September 23, 2024 (2024-09-23) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Sports

(ready) RD: Dick Moss

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Article: Dick Moss (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Death announced 23 September. Thriley (talk) 18:06, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Norbert Lohfink

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Article: Norbert Lohfink (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Jesuiten, Evangelische Zeitung
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

German Catholic priest, theologian and member of the Jesuits. Grimes2 (talk) 10:14, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Looks good, let's post. Bremps... 03:41, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support seems good enough to me. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 12:16, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:01, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) New moon

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WP:NAC. While WP:AGF, Consensus to post at the moment is unlikely to develop. Please consider nominating this again on September 29. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 01:20, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 PT5 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A newly-discovered near-Earth object will be captured by Earth's gravity on September 29. (Post)
News source(s): Al Jazeera, CNN, LA Times, NYT, Times of India
Credits:

Article updated
We don't seem to have a good free image yet but I suppose one is coming. Andrew🐉(talk) 20:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait, it’s not Sep 29 yet. 64.114 etc 21:09, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose should be nominated next week. But also this article is just a stub. Natg 19 (talk) 21:29, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until it actually comes into orbit, but also Oppose on quality - article is a stub. The Kip (contribs) 21:46, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait interesting, but not news yet This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 21:53, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment given that there is estimated to be one Temporary satellite in orbit at any time, and per the see also list we've identified a previously unknown case once every two years, roughly, this seems to fall more on a trivia side suited for DYK than ITN. Masem (t) 21:58, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait, pretty cool and notable but hasn't happened yet Personisinsterest (talk) 23:44, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait A new moon for Earth is a major note in astronomy and can be very interesting to non-astronomers too. I should say wait for September 29 to post though. High Admiral JMT (talk) 00:05, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • While Masem's overstating his case a bit, I think everyone else is doing the same for theirs, too. This is a 10m-wide rock; I can't find a prediction for maximum expected apparent magnitude, but current observations are about +22.1, and the back of my envelope says it can't possibly get brighter than +19.4. Some of the sources above say it "won't be visible to the naked eye", which is one heck of an understatement; it'll be at least 200x dimmer than Pluto, you're going to need a serious telescope to see it, and while Andrew's right that we'll probably get free images of it, expect it to look a lot closer to our ones of Eris than our ones of Eros. I'm all for posting interesting news, especially interesting astronomy news, but c'mon. We don't even post lunar eclipses, and at least people can go outside and look at those. —Cryptic 02:33, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, now and whenever this is nominated again. This is hardly a situation worth calling Earth getting a "new moon". It's a rock that will be here a bit and then it will be gone. Yawn. DarkSide830 (talk) 03:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: this is popsci trivia. Even the byline for the NYTimes article that was linked says It’s just a little guy, and not everyone agrees that it’s actually a mini-moon. Also, Despite its possible lunar ancestry, the object may not technically count as a mini-moon. To normally qualify, an asteroid must orbit Earth fully at least once; 2024 PT5 will perform a horseshoe-shaped orbit. “It certainly won’t complete one full revolution in the Earth-moon system this fall, so I’m not sure I would classify it as a mini-moon’” said Lance Benner, the principal investigator of the asteroid radar research program at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 04:13, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, per Cryptic and Bait30. This isn't really a rare occurrence either, quite a few objects have been altered by Earth's gravitational field that we have characterized in the past few years especially with the advent of higher quality observational tools helping us identify more objects within our cosmic neighborhood. Ornithoptera (talk) 05:09, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ITN subjects don't have to be rare as ITN mainly publishes lots of repetitive and routine items such as deaths, elections and sport. Instead, ITN entries have to be "in the news", and this one is. The only other NEO which seems to have gotten attention this year seems to have been 2008 OS7 and that's still a red link. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:41, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per others: it's trivia that we have a rock temporarily orbiting us for a while and then not doing so. - SchroCat (talk) 11:30, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until September 29 as per above. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 11:59, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait and maybe support. An interesting astronomy fact and very much in the news. Regarding the fact that this happens every few years, we do post other events (elections, etc.) with this regularity too. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 12:45, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose now, support when it's the 29th and it's actually in orbit Scuba 15:20, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for now but on 29th Sept, My vote will be Support. I am all for these types of science ITN items. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:59, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Bait30 & Ornithoptera. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 21:45, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Pulled) 23 September 2024 Lebanon strikes

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Whilst it's technically eligible again (no longer any orange tags), the topic is now covered by Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) under ongoing. Schwede66 20:51, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 23 September 2024 Lebanon strikes (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Israeli airstrikes in Lebanon leave 492+ dead and 1,645+ wounded in the single deadliest attack since the 2006 Lebanon War (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Israel fires hundreds of airstrikes towards Lebanon, killing at least 492 and injuring at least 1,640 in the deadliest Israeli attack in the country since the 2006 Lebanon War.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In Lebanon, Israeli airstrikes targeting Hezbollah kill at least 492 people and injure over 1,600, in the deadliest day since the 2006 Lebanon War.
News source(s): NYTNBCWPABCReutersAP
Credits:
Huge escalation of the conflict in the middle east, every single media outlet is talking about it. Scuba 19:46, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seeing as it'll likely be posted at this point, propose ALT2. Better wording IMO, and virtually all RSes mention that the strikes were at least intended to target Hezbollah, though they've unsurprisingly resulted in massive collateral damage/civilian casualties too. The Kip (contribs) 04:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Can't see why not at this point. Bremps... 05:11, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support big body death toll Ion.want.uu (talk) 05:53, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support With 500 deaths and 2 thousand injuries, this is most definitely NOT covered by ongoing. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 contribs 07:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

September 22

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September 22, 2024 (2024-09-22) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Roy Clay

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Article: Roy Clay (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2024/09/25/roy-clay-sr-dies/75366211007/
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American computer scientist and inventor, Silicon Valley pioneer who knocked down racial barriers. 18:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Hanif Kureshi

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Article: Hanif Kureshi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Indian Express
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Indian artist and designer. Article has shaped into a decent C-class biography. Ktin (talk) 14:22, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article looks fine. Scuba 14:53, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article looks good enough to be posted. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 12:17, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Dick Diamonde

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Article: Dick Diamonde (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Music
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Australian bass guitarist and member of The Easybeasts. Death announced on 22 September. 240F:7A:6253:1:B4B6:28B7:28ED:B519 (talk) 00:40, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) [Blurb discussion should be ongoing] RD: Fredric Jameson

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Article: Fredric Jameson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [18]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Influential American literary critic, philosopher, and Marxist political theorist. Author of Postmodernism, or, the Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism and The Political Unconscious. Thriley (talk) 23:09, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose multiple cn tags, one orange tagged section and almost entirely unsourced publications section. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:34, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
oppose article needs work and citations. Scuba 14:54, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - significantly updated and {cn} tags taken care of. It looks pretty good and should be ready to go. I hope other editors can take a look and/or we can get it posted before it goes stale. - Trauma Novitiate (talk) 21:36, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Sri Lankan presidential election

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Article: 2024 Sri Lankan presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Anura Kumara Dissanayake (pictured) wins the 2024 Sri Lankan presidential election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Anura Kumara Dissanayake (pictured) wins the 9th presidential election to become the 10th President of Sri Lanka.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Anura Kumara Dissanayake (pictured) wins the 2024 Sri Lankan presidential election to become the 10th President of Sri Lanka.
News source(s): BBC, The Hindu, Al Jazeera, The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: A new head of state was elected, and this was the first time a second round of counting was needed in Sri Lankan history.

Updated the fields Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 15:55, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per ITN/R Scuba 20:06, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above. Change in control of executive, also victory of a third-party candidate. Not Wlwtn (talk) 01:27, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above IDB.S (talk) 03:02, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per ITN/R. †TyphoonAmpil† (💬 - 📝 - 🌀 - Tools) 03:12, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 45th Chess Olympiad

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Article: 45th Chess Olympiad (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ India wins both, the open and the women's events, at the 45th Chess Olympiad (Open board one winner Gukesh Dommaraju pictured) (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The 45th Chess Olympiad (best individual player Gukesh Dommaraju pictured) concludes with India winning both the Open and Women's events.
News source(s): FirstPost (India)
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Open event winners identified. Should know of the women's event gold medalists soon. Both results are now in. Very nice work by ITN regular Kiril Simeonovski on the articles. Ktin (talk) 14:29, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How come this was posted? This seems to be a youth event (Olympiad) and not the adult competition which (as far as I am aware) gets more publicity. Is this ITNR? QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 17:15, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Huh? This is not a youth event. This is the main biennial Chess Olympiad, with many top players including Magnus Carlson, Fabiano Carauna, etc participating. Also, the Chess Olympiad is ITNR. Natg 19 (talk) 19:00, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm totally unfamiliar with Chess competition. Is the Chess Olympiad different from the World Chess Championship? That one seems to have names I recognize. Confused why theres two different chess contests which are apparently of similar prestige / importance... QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 17:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The World Chess Championship is an individual tournament; the Chess Olympiad is one between teams (representing countries). —Cryptic 17:36, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the Chess Olympiad is an international "team" tournament, meant to be like the Olympics for chess, while the WCC is a separate tournament for individual players to determine the "best" player in chess (though now that is disputed as the world #1 is not participating). Natg 19 (talk) 19:07, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see, thank you all! QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 13:50, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: W. Jayasiri

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Article: W. Jayasiri (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [19]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

†TyphoonAmpil† (💬 - 📝 - 🌀 - Tools) 10:20, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose unsourced filmography and other acting roles. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:09, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Koos van der Merwe

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Article: Koos van der Merwe (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Pretoria FM (Afrikaans)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

South African politician and formerly, the longest serving South African MP. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 06:47, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support meets the minimum requirement. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 07:37, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per nom †TyphoonAmpil† (💬 - 📝 - 🌀 - Tools) 10:25, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Article is of sufficient quality for RD. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 11:38, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 21

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September 21, 2024 (2024-09-21) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

RD: Eddie Low

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Article: Eddie Low (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): 1News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Noted New Zealand country musician. 240F:7A:6253:1:7C62:11B9:C5FF:512D (talk) 22:28, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Benny Golson

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Article: Benny Golson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American bebop/hard bop jazz tenor saxophonist. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:57, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mercury Morris

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Article: Mercury Morris (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American professional football player. Needs some work Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:15, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Al McCoy (sportscaster)

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Article: Al McCoy (sportscaster) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American sportscaster Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:49, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support besides a rather archaic list of sports trivia, his article has no major problems. I feel rest of the article is of a high enough quality to include despite the orange tag. Scuba 02:22, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would just remove that entire section. Natg 19 (talk) 02:44, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Daniel J. Evans

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Article: Daniel J. Evans (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): University of Washington, Associated Press
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American politician from the state of Washington. Died yesterday, announced today. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 21:18, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sunshineisles2, shouldn't this be in the September 20 section? We put entries by date of event/death, not date of nomination. Aza24 (talk) 22:24, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Aza24: I've seen it done either way, if memory serves. I tend to go by the date a death was announced, since if someone died two weeks ago but it wasn't publicly announced until today, their article would presumably still be nominated, even if nominations for the actual date of death had been archived. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 23:46, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Greg Malouf

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Article: Greg Malouf (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Sydney Morning Herald
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Noted Australian chef. Death announced on 21 September. 240F:7A:6253:1:B152:A2D8:5EEC:B1EC (talk) 14:07, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Ongoing: Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present)

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Article: Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: I believe recent events have shown that this is very much merits ongoing status. The parent Israel–Hezbollah conflict article requires a lot of work, but the more specific Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) looks fine. Also I know that the Israel-Hamas war article is already in ongoing but although inter-linked, this really isn't the same conflict. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:51, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Changing my vote to Support now. I think it should be added when the missile attack item rolls off, although I am still of the opinion that four ongoing entries will be too much, therefore I think one of the other three should be removed. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 18:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Suggestion Put Arab-israeli conflict (or something like that) and then in parenthesis put the hamas and Hezbollah ones separate? Sportsnut24 (talk) 09:43, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That article is way too high level, covering decades of conflict, to be useful as a main page link — Masem (t) 16:00, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why don’t we create a new article then titled something along the lines of “Arab-Israeli Conflict (2023-Present)” (unless that article already exists lol) Ion.want.uu (talk) 16:46, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps pluralize "conflict". Nfitz (talk) 20:32, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is where we have to be careful with original research. I'm not saying that such sources dont exist, but we need to make sure if we start grouping news topics, we are following how sources do it. If we're grouping them just because we think they are connected without sourcing to back that up (which again, I don't think this is the case but we should be sure), we're engaging in original research Masem (t) 22:24, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not really OR since it clearly exists. Palestine, Lebanon AND Yemen have been in conflict over the last almost 12 months. The only connection is that they are all Arabs so it would make sense.Sportsnut24 (talk) 08:19, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"The only connection is that they are all Arabs" is absolutely original research that would be a problem if sources did not link these topics already. — Masem (t) 16:47, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can see this argument, but I also wonder how we can distill all these conflicts into a single topic so as to not clutter the main page. I'm assuming readers aren't going to want to jump around to 2 or 3 different Israel x <Group> conflict pages. ? Kcmastrpc (talk) 16:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a good article (needs some sprucing up) to fit the bill: Spillover of the Israel–Hamas warSportsnut24 (talk) 08:27, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait per above. The pager explosions were a notable escalation, and the airstrikes/rocket strikes have ramped up in intensity, but IMO unless a full-scale invasion happens it's not quite at the level for ongoing yet. Agree with at least waiting until the pager blurb rolls off. The Kip (contribs) 18:09, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support now There has been significant recent escalation in the conflict that may be worth placing it in ongoing. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 02:28, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Worth noting that there's an ongoing nomination for 23 September 2024 Lebanon strikes. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:30, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support I nominated it a couple of weeks ago but the situation had not reach the necessary significance level. I think we reached that now. It’s currently geting as much (if not more) coverage than the Gaza conflict. Roncanada (talk) 20:36, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Escalation in the number of casualties and mass evacuation of Northern Israel brings this to the necessary level for ongoing. FlipandFlopped ツ 16:00, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support now that the strikes nom has been removed, and given that it's possible that the item will not be restored in due order due to NPOV issues. I'm supporting this item going into Ongoing in a general sense per above. DarkSide830 (talk) 01:52, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, given what we now know. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:55, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted There's support for this to be added to ongoing once the 2024 Lebanon pager explosions rolled off, which has just happened. With regards to main page balance concerns, we can always adjust this by shortening one of the ITN blurbs, or reducing it to three blurbs, or gaining room by adjusting OTD. With regards to the suggestion to post "Israel–Hamas war (Hezbollah conflict, timeline)", I'm unconvinced about that on two fronts. Firstly, it implies that the Hezbollah conflict is a subset of the Israel–Hamas war, and whether that is the case would need consensus. Secondly, it becomes ambiguous what "timeline" refers to. There might be value in discussing this further based on "Israel wars" as the part before the parentheses. Schwede66 20:25, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Developing options further, current we have (first line) and could have (second line):
    Note the use of colon and comma instead of mid dot, and that the "Israel–Hezbollah conflict" is labelled a war in this option. Schwede66 20:35, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thought I'd give you a ping, Masem, since you suggested this. Schwede66 06:07, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    One option to recover some real estate it to make the Ukraine one simply "Ukraine War". And do we really need two links for both Ukraine and Sudan? Maybe two links for the Israel wars. Here's a thought - simply have Wars (Ukraine, Israel, Sudan). Nfitz (talk) 18:40, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, that all would need consensus and I can't see that we'd get there. Obvious problems are that we have a civil war in Sudan and turning that into a "war" is something different. "Russian invasion of Ukraine" also has a different ring to it than "Ukraine war". Schwede66 20:11, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure why we need to point out it's a Russian invasion, on ITN. Especially given that occurred 2 (or 10) years ago. Is it even the commonly-used term any more? Should we have been using "German invasion of Europe" instead of "War". The media uses "war" far more frequently than Invasion - examples 1, 2. Even some of the recent media articles about the heavy fighting in Khartoum don't mention it's a civil war. Nfitz (talk) 21:00, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sovereign State of the Bektashi Order

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Article: Sovereign State of the Bektashi Order (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Albanian prime minister Edi Rama announced plans to create the Sovereign State of the Bektashi Order, a new Islamic country in Europe. (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

New news from Albania, Edi Rama plans to create a new city-state enclave in Tirana. Di (they-them) (talk) 23:17, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 20

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September 20, 2024 (2024-09-20) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Richard Dyer

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Article: Richard Dyer (music critic) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Boston Musical Intelligencer
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Great music crtic. Article has been fully sourced for some time, and is now updated. Aza24 (talk) 21:52, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support seems good enough to me. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 07:47, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Daniel J. Evans

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WP:NAC, repeat nomination: see above. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 21:50, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Daniel J. Evans (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Seattle Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Washington Governor Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:47, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Freddie Eugene Owens

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Article: Freddie Eugene Owens (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: First person executed by South Carolina in 13 years -- RockstoneSend me a message! 07:04, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait the article needs to be rewritten in some parts to remove some excess information and there are multiple sources that are repeated as different source. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 07:49, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Cleo Sylvestre

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Article: Cleo Sylvestre (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: English actress Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 03:08, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose multiple cn tags. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 07:50, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Kaviyoor Ponnamma

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Article: Kaviyoor Ponnamma (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Indian Express
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian actress Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 01:45, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose it is a listicle with very little prose plus the tables and lists are unsourced. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 07:51, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: David Graham

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Article: David Graham (actor) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British actor Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 22:46, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support David Graham is a pretty notable actor for voicing Grandpa Pig in Peppa Pig, making him mostly pretty well-known. User:High Admiral JMTUser talk:High Admiral JMT 02:24, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All people with a Wikipedia article are presumed notable for RD as any other criteria (like whether voicing extended family on a popular children's cartoon passes the line) are subjective and arbitrary. Unknown Temptation (talk) 13:41, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Graham is especially notable since Peppa Pig is a world-famous show for children. High Admiral JMT (talk) 00:41, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I repeat, the criteria to be posted as a recent death is not notability or popularity, but the quality of the article. Even if Tom Hanks died today, the page would only be posted on ITN if the page was up to scratch. Unknown Temptation (talk) 13:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait prose is good enough but filmography is missing sources. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 07:52, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ibrahim Aqil

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Article: Ibrahim Aqil (Hezbollah) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Personally I would say "Wait" on this since it may grow into an ITN discussion (Israel says 10 senior commanders were killed Barrons) Prodrummer619 (talk) 17:01, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Geoffrey Hinsliff

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Article: Geoffrey Hinsliff (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Sky News, The Independent
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

British actor who played a major character on the television soap opera Coronation Street for over ten years. I have updated the article (although I was not logged in, oops) to include his Coronation Street accomplishments. Have already updated the article and skimmed through to address any non-cited claims. FlipandFlopped ツ 00:45, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Almost Ready. The Filmography section needs to be sourced. It is also tagged as a stub, so if any other information can be written about the subject, that'd be great. Changing to Support. Yup, looks much better. Great work updating the article just before it was achieved! 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 23:38, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 19

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September 19, 2024 (2024-09-19) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Bimal Kar

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Article: Bimal Kar (footballer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Daily Star
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Looks good and well sourced. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:15, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article is of sufficient quality for RD. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 10:10, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support seems alright to me. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 07:56, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 18

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September 18, 2024 (2024-09-18) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Science and technology

  • Instagram introduces teen accounts for users under the age of 18 that will be private by default, limit "sensitive content" and allow parents to view contacts. (DW)

(Posted) RD: Sehat Sutardja

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Article: Sehat Sutardja (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Berkeley Engineering
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indonesian-born American technology executive. Found the article at Deaths_in_2024; Article seems to be in good nick for the main page. Ktin (talk) 02:28, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is in a good enough shape. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 18:04, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Kesaria Abramidze

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Article: Kesaria Abramidze (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Very popular Georgian trans model who has been murdered the day after the country's parliament passed an anti-LGTBI propaganda law, shocking the country. I'm just finishing expanding her article, but it may already be enough to be posted. _-_Alsor (talk) 08:14, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article seems good enough. Rynoip (talk) 08:42, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support RIP Kesaria 🏳️‍⚧️. The article is in a good enough shape. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:38, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Sam Malcolmson

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Article: Sam Malcolmson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Friends of Football
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs section clean-up but otherwise well cited and comprehensive. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:25, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Support meets bare minimum requirement but a little expansion would be nice. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 07:57, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Nick Gravenites

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Article: Nick Gravenites (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline Hollywood
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American blues musician. 240F:7A:6253:1:D41F:54E5:B447:E0BB (talk) 02:22, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose It's always the unsourced discography that holds musician articles up. Bremps... 03:04, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article seems alright to me now. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 07:58, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Armenian coup attempt allegations

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Article: 2024 Armenian coup attempt allegations (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The government of Armenia announced it had thwarted a coup attempt by a Russian-back militia to topple the government of Nikol Pashinyan. (Post)
News source(s): Politico Radio Free Europe
Credits:

The Armenian intelligence service announced it has thwarted a pro-Russian coup by elements of a Russian financed, trained, and equipped militia. Scuba 00:47, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Let's wait for some more information to trickle in. How would a coup with less than a dozen people have worked? Bremps... 02:39, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
oppose there is nothing reliable about this accusation. The article shouldn't even exist. There are no protests now either. There'd be some reaction on the ground if this was anything but a nothing-burger.Sportsnut24 (talk) 05:00, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Does not appear to be that noteworthy to me as there was no actual coup attempt carried out. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 08:01, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Dusko Doder

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Article: Dusko Doder (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Obit published 18 September. Needs expansion. Thriley (talk) 18:29, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is in good shape enow. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 08:02, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) UN demands Israeli withdrawl from Palestine

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WP:SNOW closure. Consensus to support is highly unlikely to form. (non-admin closure) 🔥Jalapeño🔥 contribs 08:49, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: International reactions to the Israel–Hamas war (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The United Nations General Assembly votes 124–12 to demand Israel end its occupation of Palestinian territories within 12 months. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:
UN follows up its decision that the occupation was illegal with a demand for withdrawl from the territories. An article is likely to be made for this specific resolution and I'm hoping that gets done soon because the article hasn't been updated. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:20, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until a separate article be created. Rynoip (talk) 21:23, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose the ICJ ruling was one thing, and a Security Council resolution would be another, but GA resolutions are non-binding - they usually hold little weight and rarely hold long-term significance. In addition, this doesn’t really change anything; the position of the UN on the OPT and Israeli occupation has been stated/reaffirmed repeatedly in the past, this is just doing so again. Only real unique significance is this being the first time Palestine itself has introduced the resolution, but I don’t think that meets the bar for ITN. The Kip (contribs) 23:17, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Also worth noting there's no distinct article yet, and the currently-listed target is a poor fit. The Kip (contribs) 03:52, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose it's non binding, so per The Kip, is going to have little impact. Masem (t) 23:19, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose A non-binding resolution seems meaningless. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:40, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It's non-binding, and already covered by Ongoing. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 02:50, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support regardless of the UN's ability to enforce the decision, it is still a UN resolution. Scuba 02:59, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Per The Kip, the ruling won't be enforced or recognized by the powers engaged in said occupation so its a bit of a moot point. Dozens of UN Resolutions pass regularly, many with regards to ongoing conflicts or international situations. Ornithoptera (talk) 06:16, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Salvatore Schillaci

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Article: Salvatore Schillaci (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Il Post, BBC, La Gazzetta dello Sport, La Stampa
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

A former professional footballer and full international for Italy; he was best known for winning both the Golden Ball and the Golden Boot at the 1990 FIFA World Cup and finishing second at the Ballon d'Or of the same year. Rest in peace. Oltrepier (talk) 09:14, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support I think it is ready to be posted now. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 08:02, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2024 Shenzhen knife attack

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WP:SNOW closure. Consensus to support is highly unlikely to form. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 01:13, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 Shenzhen knife attack (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
News source(s): BBC, CNN, Reuters, Reuters again
Credits:

Article updated
Recent event in China. Article created by User:TheLonelyPather. This is my first time nominating for ITN so please be patient with any mistakes I made. Di (they-them) (talk) 15:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

September 17

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September 17, 2024 (2024-09-17) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) RD: Beppe Menegatti

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Article: Beppe Menegatti (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Il Messaggero
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Theatre director mostly of his wonderful wife ;) - stubbish article was there. We have now a ref in English. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:59, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article seems alright to me. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 08:03, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Bamako attacks

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Article: 2024 Bamako attacks (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 77 people were killed and more than 255 others were injured in an attack on Mali's capital Bamako, carried out by Jama'at Nasr al-Islam wal-Muslimin, an Islamist militant group affiliated with al-Qaeda. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Significant attack on a capital city with many casualties. Article looks good. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:57, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bagumba: There’s been some more input that supports posting this. Would say that there’s consensus now? Blaylockjam10 (talk) 00:40, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging @Admins willing to post ITN: Abcmaxx (talk) 07:27, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above, major attack on a national capital. Scuba 16:28, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support It’s a major attack w/a high death toll & the article’s quality is good enough. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 00:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jim Cullivan

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Article: Jim Cullivan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Radio WTN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Football coach, 103. Article is GA. BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:23, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support since this is GA and has been updated. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 08:04, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: JD Souther

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Article: JD Souther (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety, LA Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American singer-songwriter. 240F:7A:6253:1:E924:4E1B:C314:5996 (talk) 04:10, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Some WP:PROSELINE issues prevent this from being posted on the main page. Bremps... 06:47, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Not enough citations on the article Rynoip (talk) 22:41, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose orange tagged because of a lot of information is unsourced. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 08:06, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Tyrone C. Fahner

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Article: Tyrone C. Fahner (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Chicago Tribune
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Article updated and well sourced. Death announced on this date. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:10, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article seems sufficient in terms of covering his life and well-cited. Bremps... 03:54, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above. Rynoip (talk) 21:23, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Posted—Bagumba (talk) 02:32, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Lebanon pager explosions

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Article: 2024 Lebanon pager explosions (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Across Lebanon and Syria, pagers used by Hezbollah explode, killing multiple people and injuring thousands. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At least nine people are killed and over 2,800 are injured after pagers used by Hezbollah members explode in Lebanon.
Alternative blurb II: ​ At least nine people are killed and over 2,800 are injured after pagers used by Hezbollah members explode in Lebanon and Damascus, Syria.
News source(s): Guardian, NYT
Credits:

Novel and creative escalation in the Israel-Hezbollah conflict (which is not in ongoing, unlike the Israel-Hamas conflict). Sandstein 17:21, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support – Though it can be argued that it's covered by ongoing, I think it is a very serious and rare escalation notable enough of a blurb. Prodrummer619 (talk) 18:11, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support not only is it a big escalation, but the way Israel did so is crazy. Scuba 20:35, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support an important news and widely covered.
QalasQalas (talk) 21:49, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait The article has a rainbow of multiple cleanup/dispute tags. And the technical details of the incident(s) still seem uncertain and subject to much speculation. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:05, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality issues for now.VR (Please ping on reply) 22:38, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait and oppose Hezbollah mention - The page clearly still needs cleanup and the situation is developing. Many of those caught in the attacks do not seem to have a clear connection to Hezbollah, so while this may have been intended to target members of that organisation it could also have been a more general terrorist attack against pager users in the country (with Hezbollah happening to be a major user of pagers in the country) and it is not only misleading but potentially dangerous to jump the gun in making assumptions here. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 22:41, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Support. Large number of casualties. The news is making international headlines. – Anne drew
  • Support on notability sheer scale of injuries together with the highly unusual tactics deployed makes this notable. Cleanup tags need to be addressed first before posting. FlipandFlopped ツ 23:47, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait, then Support Page needs a bit of clean-up and development. Other than that, this is unique and is significant enough to exclude it from the "covered by ongoing" argument in my opinion. This type of attack has never been seen on such a massive scale, and the damages could be tremendous. Hungry403 (talk) 02:33, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
oppose per masem. unless there is something bigger out of this in retaliation.
Also the article ays lebanon and the blurb says syria.Sportsnut24 (talk) 03:16, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is being discussed. Bremps... 06:48, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Posted. I find that there is a WP:ROUGHCONSENSUS to post, and that the articles, while they could use improvement, are nevertheless serviceable. El_C 05:56, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is a tag on there that held up posts for Fujimori. So why does this get through?Sportsnut24 (talk) 08:14, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sportsnut24: the article is tag-free, as it was when I added my support at 05:34. Mjroots (talk) 09:40, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mjroots @El C, as evidenced by the talk page, it still has several outstanding POV issues. The tag was removed prematurely.VR (Please ping on reply) 12:11, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@El C Change the title to mention communication devices in general instead of just pagers per the recent developments. Reuters Prodrummer619 (talk) 15:02, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Briefly because I'm writing in haste. I stand by my decision and am not pulling the blurb. Any other requests can be handled by any other admin. Thank you. El_C 23:21, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
NOTE there is a big orange tag on the article, which is this allowed on the page? It should be pulled until sorted, like fujimori.2A00:F3C:A282:0:5097:3DB:7890:50B7 (talk) 06:11, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is a contentious topic and so has all the usual aggravation and issues that they generate. The article still has a big orange {{POV}} tag, just like it did when I commented above. And the technical scope of of the topic has expanded since as it's not just pagers.
As this is obviously part of the general Arab-Israeli conflict, we should perhaps leave all such to Ongoing.
Andrew🐉(talk) 06:50, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is it an Arab-Israel conflict? The major Arab nations are not involved. And perhaps the biggest issue is non-Arabic Iran. As Israeli troops move further into Lebanon, and Gazify it, we'll have to make this ongoing - presumably combined with Gaza. Is there a name for a group that consists of Hezbollah, Hamas, Houthi, and Iran, etc.? Nfitz (talk) 02:20, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These and other similar groups all seem to be part of Militant Islamism in the Middle East. They seem to be generally committed to Pan-Islamism rather than the nation states which are partly a relic of earlier colonial empires. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:50, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Terrorists. 107.122.193.77 (talk) 16:02, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment How about we post the explosion video on the main page? Fujimori has been there long enough. Bremps... 18:52, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Shouldn't the blurb mention that Israel / the Mossad exploded the pagers? Saying that the pagers simply exploded makes it sound like it was just a freak accident or technical malfunction, and mentioning they belonged to Hezbollah without mentioning Israel in any way makes it sound like maybe Hezbollah was the perpetrator as opposed to the target.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 10:09, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 16

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September 16, 2024 (2024-09-16) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Song Binbin

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Article: Song Binbin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Telegraph
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Senior leader in the Chinese Red Guards during the Cultural Revolution Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 01:12, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question: Is this supposed to be an RD or a blurb? ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 01:19, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks this is for RD.Fixed it.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 01:24, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
you're welcome :) ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 01:34, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support A very fascinating person, article is ready to be posted. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 08:09, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Typhoon Bebinca (2024)

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WP:SNOW close. (non-admin closure) 🔥Jalapeño🔥 contribs 19:45, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Typhoon Bebinca (2024) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Typhoon Bebinca becomes the strongest typhoon to hit China since Typhoon Gloria of 1949. (Post)
News source(s): [21]
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Not much strong feelings about this one, but since it is said to be strongest typhoon to hit Shanghai since 1949, maybe we should post it? High Admiral JMT (talk) 02:32, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We generally don't post items of this nature. Blurbs here tend to be concerned with impact rather than storm strength.
Noah, BSBATalk 02:39, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Otis Davis

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Article: Otis Davis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Article updated and well sourced. Death announced on this date. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:12, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Central European floods

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Article: 2024 Central European floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Flooding in Central Europe leaves 16 people dead and more missing, as several towns are left submerged. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Severe flooding in central Europe leaves at least 25 people dead and 11 missing, as several towns are left submerged.
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Article only just created as 2024 European floods was too broad and not detailed enough. Significant for a large part of the continent, one of the biggest floods in the countries affected in history. Storm Boris (2024) and Genoa low articles need improvements too. Abcmaxx (talk) 15:17, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support until the quality improves. Seems notable for posting though.
Noah, BSBATalk 16:00, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment feels like we are creating excessive articles around these topics. Don't see why this can't be part of storm Boris in this case. Masem (t) 17:24, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Masem: Storm Boris is a redirect to a wind storm season article subsection. It doesnt have its own article. Noah, BSBATalk 18:19, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That subsection is covering the current floods, which seems to be fine. But if there is expansions to be made, that should be the standalone page and not this new flooding page. — Masem (t) 18:44, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hard disagree. The precedent here is 1997 Central European flood, to which this being frequently compared to. Firstly Storm Boris is just one of the factors that has caused the flooding. Secondly, given the impact and scale a standalone article is very much appropriate here, even though it is yet to be expanded, however I'm sure it will be expanded easily to such a point that WP:FORKs and WP:SIZESPLITs will be needed anyway. Abcmaxx (talk) 20:44, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    My concern is mostly thus larger trend anound seeming infinite atomization of current event event articles, where editors are given even small facets of larger stories their own article. We want to make the featured article here is sufficiently conpherensive of the cause and effects around the flooding without being too narrow. — Masem (t) 14:07, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Some of the information has been duplicated from 2024 European floods, but as long as that article can be organised by month instead of by country, that can be easily trimmed down to a summary with a {{main}} link. 2024–25 European windstorm season#Storm Boris is more of a mess, but still I don't think the problem here is anything more than poor linking between the three articles. The September floods due to Boris/Anett are without doubt notable -- this has turned out to be an event at least comparable to a 1997 flood. The storm, which might or might not be notable independently of the floods, currently only has a section in the windstorm list. Did I miss a fork somewhere? Daß Wölf 04:31, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support, likely comparable to the 1997 or 2014 floods once all the information is tallied up, and the article is of sufficient quality. Suggest changing the blurb to "Storm Boris flooding leaves..." to make it immediately recognisable, as the name seems to have taken on in the media. Unfortunately, I wouldn't expect the article to be exhaustive until well after the event. Unlike e.g. Typhoon Yagi, this is affecting at least half a dozen countries with different languages where weather news commonly stops at the country border. When compared to North America and the UK, severe weather events in continental Europe fairly rarely get comprehensive articles on Wikipedia.
It's also somewhat hard to tell how long the effects will last. The bulk of precipitation fell on already saturated high ground near the sources of Europe's large rivers, so there might be a second wave of flooding downstream, or another if a warm spell suddenly thaws out the newly accumulated snow in the mountains. For example, the Danube might yet flood northern Serbia and easternmost Croatia [22]. Daß Wölf 08:28, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Barely comprehensive enough but comprehensive enough. Bremps... 15:21, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Admins willing to post ITN: anyone available to make this change? Natg 19 (talk) 22:49, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Done I was just about to action this but Bagumba has beaten me to it. :-) Schwede66 05:31, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) European floods

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Nominator close; more suitable article nominated Abcmaxx (talk) 15:31, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 European floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Flooding in Central and Eastern Europe leaves several people dead and more missing, as several towns are left submerged. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: Article needs splitting into last few days' events, needs major update as well. Significant for a large part of the continent, one of the biggest floods in the countries affected in history. May need a Storm Boris (2024) article and have that as a target. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:15, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait - As you said, the article isn't ready. I should say wait for the present to get the article improved, and maybe after some more casualties are noted. Maybe after the floods have finished. High Asmiral JMT (talk) 03:13, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Going by the current article, which covers floods since May, this feels like an inappropriate junction of multiple different weather events, getting in towards synthesis. Would almost definitely need a focus on the page on the storm that actually caused these most recent floods. --Masem (t) 12:06, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

September 23

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September 23, 2024 (2024-09-23) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Sports

(Posted) RD: 23 September 2024 Lebanon strikes

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Article: 23 September 2024 Lebanon strikes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Jerusalem Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Special:Contributions/70.26.38.100 (talk) 02:58, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 15

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September 15, 2024 (2024-09-15) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

RD: Elias Khoury

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Article: Elias Khoury (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP News; Al Jazeera
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

According to the Institute for Palestine Studies, Khoury moved between journalism, writing, and teaching. It’s a legacy that can help us to understand the meanings of loyalty, commitment, and Palestine. Trauma Novitiate (talk) 16:54, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose article has multiple issues. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 08:09, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prime time Emmys

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Article: 76th Primetime Emmy Awards (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At the Emmys, Shōgun wins for Best Drama, and Hacks wins for Best Comedy. (Post)
News source(s): AP
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

ITNR but article is no where close to ready lacking any info about the ceremony itself. Masem (t) 13:13, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose not ready and will not be in time to be posted. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 08:10, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Tito Jackson

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Article: Tito Jackson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): E! Online
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American musician and member of The Jackson 5. 240F:7A:6253:1:6559:FB9D:9705:1874 (talk) 05:44, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Trump golf shooting

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Non-admin closure per WP:SNOW --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 02:42, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Trump International Golf Club shooting (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A man is arrested at Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach, Florida following his suspected assassination attempt of former U.S. President Donald Trump (pictured). (Post)
News source(s): [23][24]
Credits:
  • Oppose for now. Doesn't look like Trump was in any immediate danger and no shots were fired at him. I also note that there is some surprising ambivalence about the article on its talk page with some even arguing it should be merged into another page. FWIW I think this clearly passes GNG and AFAIK we have articles on all other confirmed attempts on the lives of current and former presidents. But until that gets sorted out, I'd be reluctant to promote this on the main page. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:10, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as well. Unlike the assassination attempt in Pennsylvania, nobody was killed or injured. This doesn't have enough due weight to merit a blurb in ITN. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 23:25, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We have opted not to post known-but-foiled assassination/attacks (before anyone got injured) against major political figures, and this seems to fall into that category. --Masem (t) 23:53, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per 2604 etc. 64.114 etc 00:04, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Multiple past assassination attempts on presidents have been discussed here before (there were multiple on Biden, for example). But if the plots were foiled and no injuries or even structural damage occurred, then they weren't considered to have enough due weight to include in ITN. Unless there's some other exceptional reason to include this that hasn't been presented yet, then I see no reason for this to run. SilverserenC 00:04, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose "shooting" seems very tabloidish, given I've seen no reports that the alleged trespasser ever fired a weapon. And I don't think person arrested with a weapon in the vicinity of a leader (let alone a former leader) is particularly notable, other than perhaps locally. Someone remind me though - when they arrested that nutter in Ottawa who was at Rideau Hall with all those guns, looking to shoot Trudeau - did we post it? That would be a good comparison. Nfitz (talk) 00:33, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At least based on searching the archives above for keyword "Trudeau", we've only ever run two ITN blurbs for him, for his election and then re-election. So, no, it doesn't appear to have been posted, not unless whatever was run didn't mention Trudeau at all. SilverserenC 00:41, 16 September 2024 (UTC)\[reply]
It looks like it didn't even get a Wikipedia article - surprising given the international news coverage 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; though it is mentioned at Timeline of incidents involving QAnon#Intrusion into Justin Trudeau's residence. It is mentioned at the final attempt of 2020 List of heads of state and government who survived assassination attempts - which seems to show 2 or 3 a year, recently. Which raises the question of how many of those were posted. Nfitz (talk) 01:14, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Noah, BSBATalk 00:48, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose "Shooting" in the article title is very generous considering not a single bullet was fired towards Trump, No injuries or lasting effects Hungry403 (talk) 02:32, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Ready) RD: Robert F. Titus

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Article: Robert F. Titus (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Starrs
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: United States Air Force brigadier general and fighter pilot Toadboy123 (talk) 23:46, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support I don't see any cn tags, article looks good. Scuba 15:25, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ready I think the article is ready to be posted because some minor issues shouldn't hold it back. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 08:11, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The majority of Robert F. Titus § Awards and decorations remains unsourced. —Bagumba (talk) 13:24, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is this RS? --PFHLai (talk) 13:46, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Only info about it's reliability I can find was this one and even that is inconclusive. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:14, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PrinceofPunjab and @PFHLai In most biographies of US military personnel, generally awards ranking below Commendation Medal are not included. In case of Titus, for awards after Commendation Medal, I had to rely on his official AF image available in Commons which features awards after Commendation Medal, as he wears them in his uniform. Other than, this let me know whatelse has to be done for this aertilce to be posted. Toadboy123 (talk) 07:50, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Any inputs from @Stephen or @Bagumba, please? --PFHLai (talk) 10:56, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have an opinion on what to include (or not) or how to cite it. Military is not my area of expertise. However, for unsourced content, the WP:UNSOURCED policy says:

The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and it is satisfied by providing an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports the contribution

If it's there, it needs sourcing. —Bagumba (talk) 11:11, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Bagumba @Stephen In that case, I am removing awards after Commendation Medal since I can't find any source (other than portrait in Commons) to source it. Let me know if it's now good to go. Toadboy123 (talk) 01:54, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Any news regarding the status of the hook? Toadboy123 (talk) 23:39, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 14

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September 14, 2024 (2024-09-14) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Elaine DePrince

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Article: Elaine DePrince (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Brand-new article started after her death was finally made public on September 14. She led a very full life as a non-fiction author and mother of 11 children including 9 adopted, 3 of whom were hemophiliacs who died of AIDS, plus Michaela DePrince (who happened to die less than 24 hours before her). Cielquiparle (talk) 16:33, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Fernando Puche

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Article: Fernando Puche (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Málaga CF
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Spanish businessman, owner of Málaga CF...and convicted tobacco smuggler fined over €16 million. Newly created. All sources in Spanish Unknown Temptation (talk) 20:38, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Berit Ås

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Article: Berit Ås (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NRK
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Norwegian psychologist and feminist politician, known for articulating the five master suppression techniques. Needs better referencing. Oceanh (talk) 02:48, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 13

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September 13, 2024 (2024-09-13) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

RD: Lex Marinos

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Article: Lex Marinos (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [25], [26]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Happily888 (talk) 05:42, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Birth date, some of the early section and the filmography needs more sourcing. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:43, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mary McFadden

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Article: Mary McFadden (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American fashion designer. The "High Priestess of Fashion" according to Vogue. Thriley (talk) 21:27, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Career section can use some expansion but otherwise meets the minimum requirement. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:44, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Wolfgang Gerhardt

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Article: Wolfgang Gerhardt (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): FAZ
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

German politician. Grimes2 (talk) 13:18, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Prose is 1,572 character, barely over a stub. This man was leader of Germany's third party for six years and was leader of the opposition, albeit for six months. What did he propose in his many election campaigns and how did he act in opposition to Merkel? My knowledge of German language and politics is far too low to expand this, however. Unknown Temptation (talk) 21:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Irrelevant. Please read the bottom line in the yellow box containing the nomination. Black Kite (talk) 21:52, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Leaving aside whether it's true, it's not irrelevant at all -- this is a comment on the article's quality, and a suggestion that it needs some minimal coverage of his political positions and actions to meet the quality bar. The line you point to includes Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD., which is exactly what this comment is doing. UndercoverClassicist T·C 07:19, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The small text says all humans, animals etc. are assumed to be notable enough to post. I never doubted that. What I said was that the page is just over the length of a stub. Would we ever consider posting a page on a Liberal Democrats leader like Charles Kennedy or Paddy Ashdown if the page was just over the definition of a stub, and a mere list of offices held rather than who they were as politicians and people? This may not be GA or FA nomination but a certain limit of length and completeness should be met. Unknown Temptation (talk) 15:18, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    DYK asks for 300 words. I don't think it's unreasonable for ITN to require as least 300 words, too. The word count is 250 now. Let's have more prose in this wikibio. Pretty sure there's more to write about this guy's career in politics. When coverage of the wikibio appears to be incomplete, it's a good reason not to feature it on the RD line, methinks. --PFHLai (talk) 21:00, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Done Grimes2 (talk) 18:21, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural support meets minimum requirements This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 00:25, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per above 27.96.223.192 (talk) 07:02, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support meets the bare minimum requirement but it would be better if there is a bit more content. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:46, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Michaela DePrince

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Article: Michaela DePrince (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): People magazine; Reuters; The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Huge loss to world of ballet. Life and career covered extensively in reliable secondary sources. Cielquiparle (talk) 21:27, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is ready now. There is enough information about her untimely death. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:02, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Borno State flooding

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Article: Borno State flooding (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Alau Dam collapse leads to flash flooding in Borno State, Nigeria that kills over 30 people and displaces over 400 000. (Post)
News source(s): [27]
Credits:

Seems to be a major humanitarian crisis and it has been described as the region's worst flooding in 30 years. Scaramouche33 (talk) 12:57, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Pravin Gordhan

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Article: Pravin Gordhan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): news24
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Twice former fin min of africa's then-largest economy.Sportsnut24 (talk) 08:13, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Provisional oppose: significance is granted by having an article, but there are CN tags needing to be addressed. Would support once fully sourced. UndercoverClassicist T·C 09:09, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support all the issues have been resolved, I think it is ready to be posted. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:03, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 12

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September 12, 2024 (2024-09-12) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Withdrawn) Ongoing: Typhoon Yagi

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Withdraw.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Typhoon Yagi (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: The article is up for updates, despite the storm having dissipated, as it continues to be reported that people are dying across various Asian countries. HurricaneEdgar 21:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Stephen Peat

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Article: Stephen Peat (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Province, Sportsnet
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Troubled ex-NHLer was struck by a car two weeks ago. Succumbed to his injuries today. Have spent the afternoon buffing up the article and making sure everything important is cited. — GhostRiver 21:38, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Decision needed) Polaris Dawn

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Article: Polaris Dawn (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Jared Isaacman and Sarah Gillis conduct the first commercial spacewalk during the Polaris Dawn private space mission. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ During the Polaris Dawn space mission, astronauts Jared Isaacman and Sarah Gillis orbit the Earth at a record distance of 1,400 kilometers, breaking the previous record set by Gemini 11.
News source(s): NYT, Guardian
Credits:

No strong feelings either way, but we normally post space firsts, right? Sandstein 15:55, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's certainly up for debate, although the media do treat this as a "first", reflecting the increasing commercialization and privatization of spaceflight. Sandstein 16:04, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I guess every major news outlet is just lying in saying that the first commercial spacewalk is a major milestone. Scuba 16:34, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's hype. News outlets frequently produce hype. Of more interest on the operational front is that this was a spacewalk without airlocks. To my mind 'first commercial spacewalk' is one of those excessively-specific superlatives, like 'tallest actor' or 'first Frenchman to cycle around the world'. I don't see the operational activity's dependence on the commercial organisation supporting it as especially remarkable. GenevieveDEon (talk) 16:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand the point you're trying to make, the superlatives that you listed exist and aren't that ridiculous. It being commercial is the whole point, the commercial space race has been proof that the age of big bloated government agencies dominating every aspect of space travel is over. SpaceX doesn't get 0.48% of the US budget every year to only make one rocket every 4 years like NASA with SLS. Scuba 03:50, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with GenevieveDEon. This is just a hyped up news story because of SpaceX, and because of a billionaire who is part of the team. What is fundamentally different from this and other spacewalks, which have been done numerous times by NASA or Roscosmos astronauts? We have already posted other "firsts" for commercial spaceflight, but this to me is an insignificant "first". Natg 19 (talk) 16:39, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because it isn't being done by NASA or Roscosmos or any governmental agency, it's being done by a private company. Scuba 03:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - This is still a big deal; it really doesn't matter if a billionaire was involved. Inspiration4 was blurbed as it was the first all-civilian spaceflight, I feel like the first ever commercial spacewalk should get the same treatment. qw3rty 17:29, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - in addition to the big media coverage for the first commercial spacewalk, also of significance is that the earth orbit achieved an altitude of over 1,400 kilometres - breaking the 1,370 km crewed record set in 1966 by Gemini 11/Agena. (of course the moonshot orbits were technically higher, so technically the Apollo missions were further away while trans-lunar or in lunar orbit. There's also been a new record set of 19 people in earth orbit simultaneously (on two space stations, with 5 capsules - Polaris Dawn, Soyuz MS-25, Soyuz MS-26, SpaceX Crew-8, and Shenzhou 18. Arguably, each of these three records should be blurbed. Combining into one seems more than reasonable. Nfitz (talk) 18:09, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think any of those should be blurbed. They're all just 'mosts' of things we don't normally pay attention to measuring at all. And if we're talking about the achievements of private space flight, one of the things it has done is to raise the number of people currently in Earth orbit by stranding two people on the ISS for six months. I also don't think that an altitude record that arbitrarily excludes the Apollo astronauts is a record at all. GenevieveDEon (talk) 21:36, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I don't see what makes a commercial spacewalk so special compared to something like a routine one done at the ISS where they actually leave the spacecraft. Hungry403 (talk) 06:56, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's in the news, unlike the stale stuff that we're currently blurbing. And when reliable and respectable sources such as the NYT describe it as a milestone, that beats the OR/POV above.
As for the spacewalk, our article tells us that this mode is called a "stand-up EVA (SEVA)". Me, I'm more impressed that they've chosen to fly through the Van Allen belt to see how bad the radiation is.
Note also that we have pictures of the crew and so can use and rotate them.
Andrew🐉(talk) 08:09, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Me, I'm more impressed that they've chosen to fly through the Van Allen belt to see how bad the radiation is. Same here, that seems like an awfully foolish endeavor to put a civilian crew through. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:37, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I feel like the teams of thousands of highly qualified engineers and physicists know what they're doing PrecariousWorlds (talk) 16:28, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
More dangerous: if any of them moved into the ISS for a 6-mo. tour of duty, where they would get about 70 mSv over that period. Or, venturing outside the Earth's protective magnetosphere fully. The Apollo crews which took the full trip "next door" and back, round-tripped through both belts; there are two and I'm not sure but is Polaris just doing the inner belt? Anyway, the Apollo crews got mission doses maxing out a bit over 10 mSv. And, most of that was not the belts, but all the rads our Sun is blasting out everywhere all the time! (Yes I got a headache trying to make sense of those confusing different units. This is why the SI is good, folks.)
Other slightly dangerous pastimes rad-wise (see helpful images here): spending a year in Winnipeg: 4 mSv; a body CT scan: around 6–8 mSv; a coronary angiogram: 12 mSv (yes, more than most Apollo crews); working as an aviation crew member: varies widely and unpredictably, but estimated upper bound at or potentially more than 5 mSv/year. The dose makes the poison. (Fascinatingly, astronauts frequently report perceiving flashes of light caused by cosmic rays crashing through their bodies and triggering them! Mir got hit by a solar storm once and a crew member said the flashes were so bright and numerous they interfered with his sleep!) --Slowking Man (talk) 23:31, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All I'm saying is there's a reason the Royal Aviation Museum of Western Canada, Boeing Winnipeg and the Winnipeg Jets keep to the traditionally "commercial" altitudes they do. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:42, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also come to think of it, public service announcement: make sure you check if your home has radon risk, and have it tested if it is. This is the radiation risk the average person should be most concerned about. (Besides avoiding tobacco) Also make sure to test and replace smoke + CO detectors on schedule! Slowking Man (talk) 09:39, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Slightly misleading; the Apollo spacecraft was only in a parking orbit around Earth for a brief period of time (aside from Apollo 7 and Apollo 9) as it transited rather quickly through the Van Allen belts, so it wasn't prolonged exposure as a low Earth orbit with a 1,400 kilometer perigee would have been. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:00, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Notable achievement in commercial space flight, as well as other firsts per Nfitz, Rockview13 (talk) 16:48, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose current blurb Disagree that there is anything particularly notable or groundbreaking about the first "commercialized" spaceflight - do we do a separate post for commercial versus non-commercial "firsts" with any other achievements? IMHO if we did post, what makes it notable is that it achieved a record-high orbit, as per the title of this other NYT article. If we do blurb, that is probably what the blurb should highlight. When the NYT calls it "groundbreaking" or a "record", that is the record they are referring to - the highest orbit ever reached which was not part of a mission to the moon. FlipandFlopped ツ 20:13, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Alt Blurb I think it is a very notable achievement and deserves to be posted, the article's quality is also sufficient. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:07, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support for being the first commercial spacewalk, and having major notability. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 00:27, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(RD posted) RD: Sitaram Yechury

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Article: Sitaram Yechury (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Indian communist leader Sitaram Yechury dies at the age of 72. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Sitaram Yechury General Secretary of Communist Party of India (India National party), dies at the age of 72.
News source(s): BBC,Indianexpress
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian communist leader Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD only but only after cn tags have been resolved. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:07, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Added more sources. Pachu Kannan (talk) 14:01, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
RD only Lacks notability for a blurb, had no national importance in the executive government Varoon2542
Posted to RD—Bagumba (talk) 09:29, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Aussie Malcolm

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Article: Aussie Malcolm (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Stuff
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Missing exact date of death, announced today; otherwise good article. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:26, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Elli: can I get an ITN nomination recognition on my talk page please? Abcmaxx (talk) 22:15, 14 September 2024 (UTC) [reply]
  Done Black Kite (talk) 22:19, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, sorry about that; hadn't done much ITN before so forgot about that step. Oh well, more things to learn. Elli (talk | contribs) 01:41, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pull He has been posthumously accused of child sexual abuse. Our article is not complete in its current state. Bremps... 18:13, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Already scrolled off MainPage on Sept. 14th. --PFHLai (talk) 21:04, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 11

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September 11, 2024 (2024-09-11) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Caterina Valente

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Article: Caterina Valente (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Tagesschau
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Entertainer, singer, guitarist from age 5, one of few German-language performers who made it to world star, appearing with Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, to name just a few, recorded 1,500 songs in 13 languages - and still had a poor article. One of the obits says: "don't look at Wikipedia, look at her homepage". - Please look at Wikipedia, and improve what you can improve. Her death became known on 11 September. Listen to her singing ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:11, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Joe Schmidt

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Article: Joe Schmidt (American football) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Hall of Fame Detroit Lions linebacker and two-time NFL champion. 240F:7A:6253:1:7C78:E248:64B1:15 (talk) 22:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD/blurb: Alberto Fujimori

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Articles: Alberto Fujimori (talk · history · tag) and Death of Alberto Fujimori (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Former President of Peru Alberto Fujimori dies at the age of 86. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former President of Peru Alberto Fujimori dies at the age of 86.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Former dictator and President of Peru Alberto Fujimori dies at the age of 86.
News source(s): AP
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Peruvian dictator. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 00:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Abcmaxx: Right - which is why I would vote for Putin, and I'm not voting either way on Fujimori. But you used the word 'venerating', and I think that's not at all a fair characterisation of what ITN does. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:37, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How exactly are ITN blurbs venerating? All the blurbs follow WP:NPOV. 31.44.224.222 (talk) 10:37, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note that the Spanish language article has a much larger readership and seems influential as the leads of the English and Spanish versions are remarkably similar. It's not clear which language is the original and which the translation or whether there's two-way traffic. There's a similar issue with the man himself – whether he was the master of his fate or just a figurehead controlled by others.
Andrew🐉(talk) 07:40, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Quality issues have been addressed in terms of sourcing. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's a lot more to it than that. What matters is what the article actually says rather than how many footnotes it has. Adding lots of footnotes that no-one reads just adds to the "never mind the quality, feel the width" vibe. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:23, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb: An extremely polarising figure that has been made notable around the world. Article does need a lot of work but will support in principle. Tofusaurus (talk) 11:56, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb This one should be a no-brainer. A former head of state who was a notorious political figure in his region, convicted of human rights abuses and was a consequential political figure in Peru and possibly in his respective continent. Article does need quality work though. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 12:35, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality, far too many CNs and unsourced paragraphs throughout. I am glad to see a legacy section which helps towards supporting a blurb though I'm not sure its written in the way to make sure it presents him as, as TDKR Chicago says, "a notorious political figure", and should be retouched to try to strength that approach if we are going to post as a blurb. --Masem (t) 12:54, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Quality issues have been addressed in terms of sourcing. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, just looked through and see one "needs context" but that's not a show stopper. Can't easily edit my vote above right now but that's a support for RD, weak support on blurb (don't think we need the separate death article, and like to see that "criticism" section titled something else buy don't know what) — Masem (t) 22:36, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on Quality per concerns mentioned previously. However, I really think Fujimori is the sort of person worthy of a death blurb at ITN. Impactful and controversial politician that had a heavy hand in shaping modern Peruvian politics and it's discord. The human rights abuse charges obviously stand as the massive events of his tenure as president, as well as the coup that got him in power. DarkSide830 (talk) 15:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Quality issues have been addressed in terms of sourcing from what I can see TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Man has an entire political ideology named after him and was the longtime president of a country. If that doesn't warrant a blurb for an RD than nothing should ever warrant a blurb for an RD. Scuba 16:19, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb I would say that alternative blurb 2 should be posted Egg470 (talk) 16:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Using loaded terms is not for articles, let alone the main page.Sportsnut24 (talk) 00:34, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Head of state of 30 million people for a full decade. Judicial issues about his presidency lasted for the rest of his life, so he hardly died quietly and remotely. See Fujimorism for how many parties claim his ideology or have had it attributed to them. Comments about whether his rule was democratic or pleasant are neither here nor there. Nobody can doubt that Putin and Assad have influenced the 21st century, for what many people would say was for the worse. Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • A Life Story As with the voice of Darth Vader, the body of Darth Vader or Big Van Vader himself, these are also past accomplishments. When most people think of "news", they think "current events". What's recently happened to Fujimori (the blurb you're voting on) is what happens to all of us, sooner or later. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's why ITN is about featuring quality articles that are in the news, not about featuring the news. That a (likely) great figure died, as reported in the news, and we have an article that is nearly there for quality and demonstrating the great figure-Ness, is exactly the reason to post. It just still has some quality issues to resolve first — Masem (t) 20:12, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    By the time this article's quality is even good enough to post, it won't be much in the news anymore. Then there's the two weeks or so it'll sit even staler on the Main Page after most editors figure there's no reason to improve it beyond passable. It might make his fandom happy for a day. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:39, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The article appears to be well sourced now. With a quick look, there's no orange tags or cn tags/unsourced statements from what I can see. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As a nonfan (nor love-to-hater), that's happiness enough for one day for me; still can't support blurbing it on account of the two weeks or so it'll seem staler later; I'll Support Normal or Photo RD, though, on your word. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:55, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    [ideally a good it item that is due to an existing topic now being in the news (like RD blurbs) show already be close to high quality for posting and just needs a bit of intense polish withon 24hr to post it more timely. We've had RD blurbs before that were so far off the quality mark that posed a problem. Not the case here — Masem (t) 22:38, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Whatever you said, it doesn't sway me. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:33, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb He's a household name. Even in my native Mauritius, everybody knows who he is. His rule has left quite a mark
  • Support blurb article seems ready. A democratically elected president, who becomes dictator after a self-coup, who is overthrown by Congress, is exiled in the country of his parents' origin, is convicted of crimes against humanity, is the patriarch of a nysaga of politicians and his pardon brings a lot of controversy is, without a doubt, a perfect candidate for his death to have blurb. _-_Alsor (talk) 22:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb A notorious former president of a country. ArionStar (talk) 03:34, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blurb, if consensus on quality now exists. But not the alt blurbs: the "Death of..." article isn't fit for the main page. Moscow Mule (talk) 06:10, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Death of Alberto Fujimori is open. —Bagumba (talk) 07:58, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus is clearlu on the side of keeping it. It should be closed now as the article has been greatly expanded since my first comment on the discussion.Sportsnut24 (talk) 08:25, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The AfD boat has sailed, but don't go calling main-page attention to the article. Not when it contains gibberish like [B]ut the former President of Colombia Álvaro Uribe Vélez, expresses his condolences, adding to this said that "Fujimori recover to Peru". Moscow Mule (talk) 18:21, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. No opinion on AfD or whether the death article should be linked or not. Natg 19 (talk) 19:20, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Moscow Mule: Consensus can change in the blink of an eye, especially for contentious subject matter such as the death of an influential world leader. Kurtis (talk) 04:23, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Dictator is a very loaded term to put on the main page as if this is a tabloid instead of an encyclopaedia. He was the president of peru.2A00:F3C:A282:0:E87A:BB26:4B74:D952 (talk) 02:14, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Dictator" was removed per an WP:ERRORS discussion. Feel free to discuss a more nuanced wording, if relevant. —Bagumba (talk) 05:17, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Judicial reform bill in Mexico

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Article: 2024 Mexican judicial reform (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Congress of Mexico approves sweeping reforms of the country's judiciary after protestors storm the Senate chamber. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Amid widespread protests, Mexico ratifies constitutional changes that will see the entire federal judiciary chosen by popular vote.
News source(s): Guardian, BBC News HRW
Credits:

Article updated

Senate chamber stormed; constitutional amendments criticized by HRW, etc., passed. Moscow Mule (talk) 17:25, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

True on both counts. But the Senate was the major hurdle to overcome: the ruling coalition controls 27 (?) of the state congresses, so it's just a matter of time. And the storming of the Senate chamber is big news this morning, although its treatment in our articles is somewhat cursory. (Not going to be that guy who replies to every comment, I promise.) Moscow Mule (talk) 18:24, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Congrats to Mexico getting rid of it's independent judiciary, I look forward to seeing the backlash to their one-party state with an unchecked executive. Scu ba (talk) 21:17, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The personalized commentary is unnecessary. The Kip (contribs) 06:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK, better. Senate storming is stale news now anyway, and its exposition here never got much further than cursory. But I'd link it as _federal judiciary_ in the alt blurb. Moscow Mule (talk) 06:21, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, fixed that Szmenderowiecki (talk) 09:42, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Quiet a big event that will have major effect on the country. The article's quality is sufficient. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:14, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Has been signed into law and is a major constitutional reform that will have massive effects in Mexican politics. EchoLuminary (talk) 01:04, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Major change in the nation's legal system, and first all-elected judiciary in the world. This is notable enough for posting. Bremps... 05:48, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt per above. Article looks good and the popular vote part is quite important. Aaron Liu (talk) 16:32, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Admins willing to post ITN: needs a resolution. Natg 19 (talk) 01:17, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Didier Roustan

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Article: Didier Roustan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): L'Equipe, Le Monde (both in French)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Died this morning, and article looks reasonable enough. Very little info on his death seems to be available right now. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:24, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support meets bare minimum requirement. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:14, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 10

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September 10, 2024 (2024-09-10) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

  • The death toll from the capsizing of a migrant boat off the coast of Senegal over the weekend increases to 26 after the discovery of 17 more bodies. (Reuters)

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

2024 Jordanian general election

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Article: 2024 Jordanian general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Islamic Action Front makes significant gains in the 2024 Jordanian general election which was won by a broad monarchist coalition (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Due to discontent from the government's response to the Israel–Hamas war, the Muslim Brotherhood affiliated Islamic Action Front has the best showing of any Islamist party in Jordanian history during the 2024 Jordanian general election, which was won by a broad monarchist coalition
News source(s): NPRReuters
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: A national election that deserves to be ITN per WP:ITN/R. The article isn't in the best shape though and could use some serious work. Just putting it in ITN to get editor's attention to the article. Scuba 13:31, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose as the nominator said, article needs a bit work as there are now two orange tags. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:50, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Missing information and needs update tags. Bremps... 18:18, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jim Sasser

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Article: Jim Sasser (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Senator from Tennessee Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:24, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose A big part of the article is unsourced. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:15, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Emi Shinohara

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Article: Emi Shinohara (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Anime News Network, Nikkan Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Voice of Sailor Jupiter, announced today. Page biography is sourced, but filmography will need to be sourced. ミラP@Miraclepine 01:21, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is good to go. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:17, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 9

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(Posted) RD: Friedrich Schorlemmer

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Template:ITN candidate One of the people who made the the Peaceful Revolution in East Germany possible, said the German President. Don't miss the video in the source that shows some key events. - The article was mostly there but too many things were translated that were clearer in German, refs were lost, others needed expansions including finding their titles, - plenty of work, took some time. We added publications, more awards, more obits. Still room for more detail if you have time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:13, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I like people, who have done so much for peace. Grimes2 (talk) 16:23, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article is ready to be posted. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:17, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Raja Petra Kamarudin

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Template:ITN candidate Tofusaurus (talk) 03:57, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose needs a bit of work in the sourcing department. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:18, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(RD posted) Blurb/RD: James Earl Jones

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate Masem (t) 20:52, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Updated Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:22, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Cot

  • One wonders what difference posting to Main page will cause to number of views? What's the usual effect? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:28, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For one RD post, Eric Sievers, he died on April 10, was posted to RD on April 14, and received ~7,000 more views that day after trending down the previous days.[30] Not sure about the effect of a blurb, or a pictured blurb. —Bagumba (talk) 10:54, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Many thanks. I was thinking more of someone like this. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:13, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's harder to gauge when there's 100s of thousands of views to know what's the "natural" traffic vs. the RD effect. There's the natural dropoff of views with each passing day. With a less popular one like Sievers, it's easy to see the bump when it took a few days to post. —Bagumba (talk) 12:30, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually, there's click data for Wikipedia at m:Research:Wikipedia_clickstream. In the month of June, it shows Template:Code. **If** I'm reading it correctly, there was 44,467 clicks from the Main Page to Sutherland's page, presumably all from the RD post. It was up for ~40 hours, which works out to ~27,000 views/day. —Bagumba (talk) 13:04, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for discovering this as it's another good source of evidence. Trying this out, I looked at July's stats. For a given article, you can see where the traffic came from. The following is a list of prominent RD/blurbs during July and the percentage of traffic that came from the main page, i.e. ITN.
    Toumani Diabaté = 42%
    Nguyễn Phú Trọng = 31% (the one person that got a blurb)
    Ray Reardon = 14%
    John Mayall = 7.8%
    Edna O'Brien = 2.96%
    Shelley Duvall = 1.87%
    Bob Newhart = 0.99%
    William Calley = 0.98%
    Richard Simmons = 0.73%
    Prince Michael of Greece and Denmark = 0.55%
    So, in most such cases, it appears that ITN has little effect in driving traffic. From the comparative data, it seems that the Deaths in July 2024 often drove more traffic.
    Andrew🐉(talk) 17:20, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The caveat is that those are monthly totals, and an items says on RD for say 1–3 days out of 30, and popular people obviously get more traffic independent of RD. But the beauty and curse of statistics is that small percentages of a large volume is still thousands or tens of thousands of clicks. For example, depending on the desired narrative, a company of 10,000 that laid off 100 people can said to have "only had a 1% reduction" vs "terminated 100 workers". —Bagumba (talk) 01:13, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed. When using statistics, what you want are the big numbers, not the small ones. By looking at our readership stats, you can see whether a story is attracting millions of views or just a few thousand. This seems to be a more objective measure than a poll of the tiny number of editors that show up here. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:55, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We do not care about page views here, again. Nor are page views any indication about whether we should post a blurb (that would make it a popularity game and that's a disservice to the main page) — Masem (t) 11:57, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    So if someone dies Sunday and their page gets 100,000 views on Monday and Tuesday... then their RD gets posted to Main page on Wednesday, and the page gets 50,000 views for the rest of the week.... That's all just irrelevant? ITN/RD is still worth all the effort? (I guess this question should really be discussed at ITN Talk). Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:04, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If that were the case, then we'd close blurbs and RDs within 2 days because what's the point then? We'd like to make sure things are timely, but we also need to make sure all aspects are met before posting, and thus we have the 7 day period for candidates to be considered. We're not here to make sure the most popular news stories are being pushed to the ITN box, but to showcase quality articles that are in the news, if that happens to be someone popular that brings a lot of views from the main page, great, but its by no means any rational we have to post something. Consider that probably the bulk of those million views for JEJ were well before RD was posted, so it is not like readers cannot find their way to that article without ITN's help. Masem (t) 12:16, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We might close them if monitoring of page views was an agreed part of the process? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:22, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We shouldn't be worried at all about page views; certainly none of the other Main Page sections worry about this. We want to feature any quality WP content - with the situation that it should have been in the news recently (7 days). That's it. Whether that drives people to read those articles is out of our control once posted, but we do know there's typically a bump, however small, because of being shown on the main page, means that we're meeting our job. Hence why aspects like popularity or page views should not be any type of driver for posting an item, not to mention the general aspect of fighting systematic bias. Masem (t) 12:43, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Is there systematic bias for posting American actors with whom UK editors are largely unfamiliar? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:58, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The systematic bias is two part here, one being American, and two being a celebrity, both areas where there is disproportionate news coverage. It's why this blurb and several of the comments make it feel like a popularity contest. We should worry about "not famous in country X" comments, since that type of argument is discouraged in addition to our goal of trying to show a diverse array of topics (it's like that French actor from a few weeks ago, perhaps only a household name in France but demonstrated all the right factors for blurb posting, just never got quality improved) Masem (t) 13:29, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, I meant simply that because there are more American !voters here, American actors will tend to get more support for a blurb. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:34, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Which is still a systematic bias we should try to overcome. Masem (t) 13:37, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    (not that editors ever have to disclose their nationality; and I personally have no idea of the percentage nationality split between all editors) Martinevans123 (talk) 13:39, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, there is hardly any. We didn't post blurbs even of such well-known actors as Kirk Douglas, Donald Sutherland, William Hurt, Gena Rowlands, Lauren Bacall, Eli Wallach, Harry Dean Stanton, Louis Gosset, Jr., Martin Landau. Except Dean Stanton all actors in the list had an Oscar. BilboBeggins (talk) 16:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Cob

  • Note that, on day 2, the readership of his article has gone up and is still over a million. This will not be because of the RD posting, which will have barely made the needle twitch. It's more likely due to the impact of tributes and follow-ups across the global media which tend to follow the death of a major figure. You don't usually see this pattern for ordinary deaths which typically have an initial spike and then a steep decline.
And note that these numbers are huge compared to everything else on Wikipedia. If you look at the top read articles, then Jones is way out in front with 1.35 million while the #2 is Cecilia Hart with just 197K. And why is she #2? That's because she was Jones' wife! You have to go to #3 to find a different topic and that just got 166K views.
Andrew🐉(talk) 07:15, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • RD posted Blurb discussion can continue.—Bagumba (talk) 11:00, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb Decent actor? Yes. Transformative? No. I really don't like to criticise other editor's reasoning, but let's be clear here - Kirk Douglas didn't get a blurb because "old man dies". Is Jones on a higher level? I really don't want to mention the Carrie Fisher effect here, but - oops, sorry. But really, how many non-Star Wars fans outside the US would even know who he was? Black Kite (talk) 12:16, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd agree, except for the fact that his career stems back to 1965 and, per the article, he's been recognised as a pioneer for African Americans in stage and film. Promethean (talk) 12:27, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He lived a long life and continued to work into his dotage. I don't think that's all that unusual when it comes to notable film actors. There are hundreds of notable screen stars working right now whose careers span 50+ years. Donald Sutherland's career stretched back to the 1960s too but it didn't make him blurb-worthy. James Earl Jones' screen career did start during the civil rights era in the United States, but I don't think it's enough. In contrast to Sidney Poitier (whose death we blurbed), he was not a notable star at that time, he wasn't closely associated with activism and he isn't known for any major firsts as an African-American actor. Humbledaisy (talk) 12:42, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He was a second Black actor go get nominated for Oscar. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:21, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Well yes, that's my point exactly - not a first. Humbledaisy (talk) 15:02, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The changes do not happen immediately, he can be regarded as first Black actor to have achieved that much success on stage. And he was active at the same time as Poitier, so they both contributed. BilboBeggins (talk) 19:13, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Loads of actors have careers of many decades, I'm not seeing that as something blurb-worthy. And "being a pioneer for African Americans" is sourced to an obituary. I'd be far more likely to take that seriously if I could see RS saying that from when he was still alive. Black Kite (talk) 14:43, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    In a 1998 interview, [Denzel] Washington said, “There weren’t a lot of serious Black actors for us to emulate, to follow, to admire. There was Sidney [Poitier]; it was James Earl Jones on stage. That’s what I remember.”[31]
    Washington said this in 1998, long before 2024. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:37, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Alain Delon didn't even get an RD. This is just american cultural imperialism Varoon2542 (talk) 12:52, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The thing is that, Star Wars is worlwide phenomenon, and the set of Non-Star Wars fans is not large, even outside of US. And the set of people who don't know about Star Wars is even smaller. There will be few people who don't know who Dart Vader is. BilboBeggins (talk) 16:21, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He was dubbed. Most of us haven't heard his voice and you're over estimating Star Wars' notability outside the West Varoon2542 (talk) 12:55, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb EGOT recipient is a very rare achievement and signifies the pinnacle of the entertainment industry. In addition, the subject is known for portraying several iconic characters that are universally known worldwide. Blurb is warranted.Template:PbRachelTensions (talk) 13:32, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • A little late to the party here, but support blurb - the man was/is a household name with several worldwide famous roles and characters under his belt. He's extremely well known not only in the acting scene, but in popular culture overall. Rest in peace. - Bucket of sulfuric acid (talk | contribs) 13:49, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not a household name. He was dubbed Varoon2542 (talk) 12:56, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb he wasn't Olivier. Sheila1988 (talk) 15:45, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He was a Shakespearean actor and won an award for playing Othello, just like Olivier. What's the difference? Andrew🐉(talk) 17:09, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Olivier was white? (until be blacked up, of course)... Martinevans123 (talk) 17:23, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Alain Delon didn't get an RD, most indian celebrities don't either. You are playing the race card when it's just an nth example of american cultural imperialism Varoon2542 (talk) 12:58, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What a trite question. Olivier was one of three who dominated British stage acting in the C20th, before moving into theatre management by setting up and running the National Theatre. That’s transformation and a good reason for a blurb, not just for being famous because he voiced Darth Vader. - SchroCat (talk) 18:36, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. RD is more than enough here we go again. He was a very popular actor, but not transformative, he did not mark a milestone in the history of American entertainment. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not the New York Times. _-_Alsor (talk) 17:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What does "transformative" mean? Who is an example of a "transformative" actor, or someone who Template:Tq? Natg 19 (talk) 17:46, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Laurence Olivier mentioned in the comment just above. —  AjaxSmack  19:28, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Besides the fact that we aren't supposed to be doing x vs y arguments for death blurbs, why exactly was Olivier so much more important than Jones? DarkSide830 (talk) 19:46, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Again, see the comments above about one being transformative and the other not. - SchroCat (talk) 22:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You seem to have explained why Olivier was noteworthy enough, but reducing Jones's impact to one acting credit seems to almost completely diminish his larger body of work. DarkSide830 (talk) 22:49, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I have done nothing of the sort. A number of people voting for a blurb have done exactly that, ironically enough. - SchroCat (talk) 04:29, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's...exactly what you said in response to the previous vote. You said Jones was notable explicitly just because he voiced Vader. DarkSide830 (talk) 18:06, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ”Template:Tq”: that’s just not true. JEJ was a notable actor because of his entire career (that’s just obvious); it’s an outright lie to say I have only said he was notable because he played Vader. - SchroCat (talk) 18:54, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1 Acadamy Award, 3 Emmys, a Golden Globe, a Grammy, a SAG, and 3 Tonys plus a plethora of second tier awards. I'd say he was in the same league as Olivier. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:36, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Then you don’t understand what Olivier’s impact was. Aside from dominating the British stage for much of the twentieth century, he was a formidable producer and director. He worked to set up the National Theatre and then ran in, and completely changed theatre in the UK. That’s what a transformative figure does. I see nothing in JEJ’s article that suggests he was transformative. - SchroCat (talk) 04:29, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb. Titan in his field, long career with an EGOT to boot. You want transformative? How about the fame he got from one of the most famous VA roles ever as Vader? Probably one of the first to achieve that level of fame in an off-screen acting role. Seems pretty slam-dunk to me. DarkSide830 (talk) 19:27, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose blurb Very famous for his voice acting roles of Mufasa and Darth Vader but was not transformative in his field.
    Noah, BSBATalk 22:48, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb Anyone with an EGOT merits serious consideration. Even if his "O" in the EGOT was noncompetitive, the fact that he voiced Darth Vader and had notable roles in critically acclaimed films such as Field of Dreams, The Lion King and Cry, the Beloved Country puts him over the top for me. --Pats2017 (talk) 00:53, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Leaning support blurb. I just wanted to comment that I don't think WP:OLDMANDIES is applicable here. While the subject was indeed "old", he was not long-retired and out of the spotlight. He appeared in both live-action and voice roles in the 2020s, and his voice continues to be used by an agreement reached before his death. I also do think that his success as an American black actor beginning in the 1960s is inherently more transformative than that of non-minority actors in the same time period. BD2412 T 03:34, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb - This is not about his two widely-known voice acting roles. This is about a long and distinguished career on stage and screen, his role as a trailblazer for African-American actors (qv Denzel quote above), and his overall stature in the field. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:49, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb not even close to being in the same league as Alain Delon, whom we did not post. So no, definitely not blurb worthy. 2A02:8071:6362:54A0:E829:76AA:FD43:F219 (talk) 11:02, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Main reason why Alain Delon was not blurbed was due to the article quality being bad/not in good enough shape for posting to be fair. Jones's article is in better quality. Also not a fan of "x didn't get blurbed so neither should y" rationale. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 12:29, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There was consensus leaning to not blurbing Delon back then and there is consensus leaning to blurbing James Earl Jones now.
    It's not that I agreed with the arguments for not blurbing Delon, because there was evidence of him being transformative in the article, but the discussion on that ended and the main problem was that it couldn't even be posted to RD. BilboBeggins (talk) 14:46, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, if this is going to end up being blurbed and we are going to make the Carrie Fisher mistake a second time, does anyone want to explain the rationale? Most of the votes here are just "he was Darth Vader, duh!" or "He was very famous" and those strike me as very weak arguments. I've seen very little genuine rationale for a blurb in this discussion aside from the Denzel Washington quote. That doesn't seem enough - it could be said of several other actors, more strongly Sidney Poitier who we previously blurbed - and, as I mentioned before, JEJ was not a notable star during the Civil Rights era, he wasn't closely associated with civil rights or activism and he isn't known for any major firsts as an African-American actor. Humbledaisy (talk) 15:42, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There's a similar Denzel quote already in the article. Not sure which is the more notable. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:40, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The mistake will be not to blurb him.
    Could you give rationale why Poitier was bigger than Janes Earl Jone? In last twenty years of his life Poitier was not active except for occasional Oscar ceremony appearances. And before that his only significant, or blockbuster role in another twenty years or so was being third-billed role in Jackal.
    One of the rationale was that he got theatre named during his lifetime. BilboBeggins (talk) 19:17, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    “If you were an actor or aspired to be an actor, if you pounded the payment in these streets looks for jobs, one of the standards we always had was to be a James Earl Jones," — this is from no other than Samuel L. Jackson.
    “The first play that I saw was ‘Fences,’” said Tony-winning director Kenny Leon of Jones’ performance in Wilson’s seminal American play. “I was a country boy from Tallahassee, Florida, came here as a National Endowment for the Arts fellow, and I saw ‘Fences.’ It changed the directory of my professional life.”
    "Of the theater luminaries in attendance, including Brian Stokes Mitchell, LaChanze, Norm Lewis and playwright Suzan-Lori Parks, many reflected on Jones’ indelible influence on their careers" — from Variety on opening of the theatre [32]. BilboBeggins (talk) 19:22, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • After bringing this up with Tone, who previously closed it, I'm BOLDly re-opening this nom. Just believe it was closed a tad early and do believe we may have been close to consensus with a little more debate. [Admins, feel free to smite me for doing this as an involved editor, but I really believe more dicsussion is worthwhile. DarkSide830 (talk) 15:13, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-reopening support + blurb Globally known voice. Obviously, we would prefer not to be in touch with the rest of the world, but we can't always get it our own navel-gazing way. SerialNumber54129 16:38, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb: Any EGOT-winning actor who has married two women who played Desdemona to his Othello deserves a blurb. This could be an ITN/R rule. :) -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 17:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb His roles in Star Wars, Field of Dreams & The Lion King, his awards & what’s written in the “Death and legacy” section make me think he merits a blurb. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:52, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb His voice is recognisable in the English speaking world but he was dubbed in local languages albeit in his style. Otherwise, his name and identity are relatively obscur. This is not a fan page— Preceding unsigned comment added by Varoon2542 (talk • contribs) 22:33, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • First of all, I'm happy to see this discussion was reopened. I think it was a very poor decision to close it.

Going through the discussion, I see many reasons to blurb, including:

1) Major/iconic figure in the field. 2) EGOT recipient (even though one of his awards was noncompetitive, such recipients are still generally recognized as having an EGOT). 3) Pioneer for the Black community in acting. 4) Death is making international headlines. 5) Internationally recognizable voice 6) He was Darth Vader

I don't see the last two arguments as valid; they hinge on one or two roles (Vader & CNN bumper voice) so I'm discounting their weight

Reasons opposed to blurbing:

1) Not significant/transformative enough 2) Poitier was an earlier pioneer--I can see a case for these. 3) He's not worldwide--somewhat of a stretch considering the reach of the Star Wars franchise & CNN but I'll concede it. 4) Not on par with a world leader 5) We're an encyclopedia, not The New York Times 6) We're not a fan page These are weak rationales. We've always blurbed the occasional entertainer, all encyclopedias include articles on cultural/entertainment figures, and despite what some people seem to think we've never limited death blurbs to world leaders. 7) He's only known for Vader. Not true, he won many awards for other roles. 8) If we didn't blurb X, then we shouldn't blurb James Earl Jones. Not necessarily true. We've made poor decisions not to blurb someone in the past; doesn't mean we should repeat the mistake.

Either way, whether counting all !votes (by my count 36-18 in favor of blurbing) or just the votes that are more compelling arguments (33-10 for a blurb), there's a supermajority of at least 2-1 to blurb James Earl Jones. While I know there's no "hard number" for making a determination, this certainly seems to me like a consensus to blurb. --Pats2017 (talk) 01:34, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment A few opposers seem to have argued contrary to WP:ITNRDBLURB's Template:Tq examples to avoid.—Bagumba (talk) 15:39, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Also a few !votes counter to WP:ITNCDONT's Template:Tq—Bagumba (talk) 15:56, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. Clearly a massively significant and well-known figure. Whether we like it or not, this subject is many times more 'in the news' than an attempted jailbreak in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:12, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb: Stale. Happened five days ago; has already had its run on the RD ticker. Moscow Mule (talk) 16:24, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The oldest current blurb is older. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, but in terms of RDs, this is now clearly stale and now making it a blurb would be stretching the point of the ITN box. Outside of a few articles talking about his voice and AI within Star Wars, I'm not seeing any more recent articles related strictly to his death more than two days old. Masem (t) 17:08, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not stale, but people are determined to Carrie Fisher it into a blurb. There does seem to be a massive over-inflation of his influence, for an actor who was not well-known (apart from being DV's voice) outside the US. But that's demographics for you. Black Kite (talk) 17:47, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Of course, every 4th of July for the past decade or so, you could watch him on DN! reading Frederick Douglass ... -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 18:01, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Incorrect. Per WP:ITN: Template:Tq2 The last blurb is currently from 31 August, while Jones died on 9 Sept. —Bagumba (talk) 17:07, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think the author had RDs already posted for four days in mind there. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:16, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Template:Tq (Othello 3:3) -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 17:28, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Nerds, birds and Shakespeare were meant to be misunderstood. But as some relatively modern bard helpfully clarified, Template:Tq "This purpose" being that one (forsooth). InedibleHulk (talk) 17:35, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    'Tis what thou Forefathers wrote. —Bagumba (talk) 18:02, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. For me, blurbing Fuhimori, who not many knew and not blurbing James Earl Jones, who is worldwide known does not make much sense. Earl Jones made more impact in the world. Arguments against blurb are not convincing — they involve WP:ITNCDONT, some are oldmandies. But we do post old people's deaths, see Prince Phillip, Deepak Kumar, Henry Kissinger, former Chinese leader. Some opposes say that being voice of characters is not enough, but he did not only do that. And some users asked for praise and evidence of being transformative in reliable sources before death, which I demonstrated, many said that he inspired and influenced them. BilboBeggins (talk) 06:21, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think your demonstration passed a threshold for inclusion (speaking solely for me); everyone's line will be different, but for me he wasn't transformative enough to warrant a blurb. When you discount the straightforward fanboy voting ('but he was Vader' or 'but he was famous'), there just isn't a consensus to post. ITN isn't about blurbing people because people have heard of them (thus why Fuhimori was blurbed), but because of their impact, and JEJ wasn't transformative in my book. - SchroCat (talk) 06:36, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not true. I went over this in my post above. Discounting both fanboy votes ("but he was Vader") and poorly reasoned oppose votes ("old man dies"/"not a head of state"/"death not notable"/"we didn't blurb X so we can't blurb JEJ") there was a clear consensus to post (it was 33-10 in favor/34-10 now...I'm not counting the "stale" vote because at the time of that post it's wasn't stale). I'm not sure how 33-10 isn't consensus to post. Just counting !votes actually was more favorable to the "oppose" verdict, but it was still 2:1 in support of posting.
    That's also not considering the discussion was closed for a day--an inexplicable decision based on how the consensus was beginning to break toward supporting a death blurb. At the time, it was about 29-9 reasoned voting; 32-16 ! votes.
    It's about to go stale, so I don't expect it to be posted now. And to be fair, while I supported blurbing James Earl Jones he's nowhere near the top of my favorite actors list, so I'm calling this as I see it. This ITN item was poorly handled. I think it's worth a discussion on the Talk Page, or wherever the proper forum would be. Pats2017 (talk) 13:13, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Strawmen arguments. Consensus is not reached by vote counting. Your final para speaks volumes about the desire for people voting out of a desire to see a favourite actor blurbed, rather than someone who was transformational. I liked JEJ as an actor, but he wasn't transformational, which is why (in my eye at least) he shouldn't have been blurbed. I suspect we'll see exactly the same situation when Harrison Ford dies too (like him a lot, appears in lots of iconic roles, but not transformational at all: but I'll put money on fanboy voting to get him a blurb). - SchroCat (talk) 15:28, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not a straw man argument at all. In fact, what you're doing is arguing for your opposition to be a Supervote. Though there was a clear consensus to post, you want your own personal opinion to carry more weight than everybody else's. Not sure how nearly more than 75% of the votes wouldn't be a consensus, unless SchroCat's outweighs everybody else's.
    This was a botched process. It never should've been closed to Tone in the first place, and it reeks of Supervoting among admins. Pats2017 (talk) 15:43, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What a rather strange and misguided comment. Rather obviously, I am not asking for anything of the sort. You, however, have vote counted and expect a result on that basis (see WP:Consensus and WP:NOTDEMOCRACY for more information).Template:PbNor was it a botched process. It was a reasonable close at the time, and reopened less than 24 hours later. No admin or anyone else has supervoted here, despite your rather hyperbolic claims to the contrary. - SchroCat (talk) 16:10, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Nowhere have I said that vote count is the only thing that matters. In fact, I discounted many support votes. Given the overall quality of arguments AND the way they split, I find it hard for you to argue that consensus was not achieved. Just like we don't count up the votes, we also don't ignore voting. You still haven't explained how a consensus was not achieved, when it was closed with so many in support of a blurb. Hard to see how that's not a Supervote. Pats2017 (talk) 16:24, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually we do ignore voting. We don't ignore !voting (which means a good rationale based on the policies and guidelines of the site). There wasn't a clear consensus to post once the fanboy votes were (legitimately) ignored. That's not a supervote, and it's a shoddy accusation to throw at the admins. - SchroCat (talk) 16:54, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I didn't count the fanboy votes, which you've repeatedly failed to acknowledge. Even limiting the vote to only those with a good rationale based on the policies and guidelines of the site, there was a consensus of !votes to blurb JEJ. For you to say there wasn't a consensus means you think some !votes carry more weight than others, which is effectively a Supervote.
    If you don't want Supervote accusations thrown at the admins, then the admins shouldn't make decisions that give off the appearance of a Supervote. Pats2017 (talk) 17:32, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Again you're counting how many people have commented, rather than weighing the arguments for and against, which is how you get to a consensus. There's a huge difference that a relative newbie can't or won't understand.Template:PbNo admin—or indeed any editor—has done anything even remotely similar to making a supervote. If you think they have, take it to ANI with evidence. I know you won't, because you can't: it's just emotive bs to try and swing the mind of the closer. - SchroCat (talk) 17:52, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You just said we don't ignore !voting, and I reinforced that I did not. You still fail to acknowledge that. You seem to think that some good rationales are better than others, which is effectively a Supervote.
    As for your second comment, I'm not trying to swing anyone. I've accepted that the chances of posting this are remote. Not every potential ITN blurb I've supported has been posted, while some blurbs I was opposed to were posted. That's Wikipedia life.
    But it doesn't mean I can't weigh in when I think a decision was egregiously incorrect. Happy to take it to ANI.
    I'm sorry that this is such a upsetting conversation for you. I've explained myself multiple times, and your emotive demeanor is becoming angrier and angrier at a relative newbie. Remember not to bite the newbies. That's also a policy a relative veteran such as yourself should know. Pats2017 (talk) 18:09, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "You seem to think that some good rationales are better than others, which is effectively a Supervote": as I've already explained, some rationales are better than others (one based on policies and guidelines will always trump a "because he's famous vote", for example). That's not a supervote - I don't think you understand what that actually means in practical termsTemplate:PbGo ahead and open the thread at ANI then. It's an empty threat whether you do or don't - there has not been any supervoting here by anyone at any stage, as I've pointed out to you several times now.Template:PbThere's nothing upsetting about this conversation for me, and I am being neither emotive, angry or bitey. How on earth you think you could possibly know that is a mystery, but it's a series of untruthful claims you've made. Maybe focus on your arguments, rather than other editors in future? - SchroCat (talk) 18:29, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am focusing on my arguments. As I've already explained, there were many good rationales, based on policies and guidelines. At no point have I ever stated that "because he's famous" was a valid rationale. You continue to invoke arguments I'm not using--a straw man argument--to try to validate that the arguments you choose are better than anyone else's, even if they are outweighed by other !votes in both number and rationale, which is effectively a Supervote.
    I'm also not threatening anything. I'm stating an opinion. That's not a threat, it's an opinion . Pats2017 (talk) 18:44, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You are mixing your arguments up with untruthful comments about me, as is clear in the final paragraph of this comment. You don't have a clue about my demeanour, so please stop.Template:PbYet again you misunderstand what a supervote is. Please read WP:SUPERVOTE and stop throwing the term around so blithely. The use of the term suggests that an admin has behaved indecorously, when that is untrue. If you think it is so, then crack on with the ANI thread, otherwise stop throwing round untruthful accusations. - SchroCat (talk) 19:09, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You as well are making untruthful comments about me; to wit, saying that I engage in "emotive bs."
    I have indeed read WP:SUPERVOTE, long before this string began in fact. I stand by my opinion that closing the James Earl Jones blurb proposal was essentially a supervote. You're free to disagree with me. Disagreements happen all the time. This is Wikipedia. Pats2017 (talk) 19:25, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    So you’re accusing Template:U, an Admin, of conduct unbecoming by making a supervote? Thats a big accusation: take it to ANI before you are reported there for incivility for making false accusations. - SchroCat (talk) 19:39, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We can't be sure about the motivation, otherwise we could suggest that oppose votes were driven by dislike of the character.
    Isn't it how we derive decision, we base it on discussion and on consensus. And yes, the amount of votes also gives us impression of how community views him and how notable he is for being put on main page. BilboBeggins (talk) 16:28, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's one of the most bizarre comments I've ever seen: Oppose votes were driven by people's dislike of one character he voiced in a long career? That's just ridiculous! And no, his notability is what guarantees his article and either an RD or a blurb. You don't get a blurb for somehow being 'super-notable', or some other false claim. - SchroCat (talk) 16:54, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Though I agree with blurbing Jones, it is laughable to me to say that he Template:Tq. An actor typically has less impact than a world leader, such as a president. I personally have not heard of Fujimori, but president of Peru is a bigger impact than a great actor. Natg 19 (talk) 06:56, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Why do we consider this straightforward fanboy voting? If we discount votes, we need to discount votes with argumentation against the rules, like being an acting head of state is not required for blurb, Oldmandies link leads to discussion without consensus for this item and is without a closure. BilboBeggins (talk) 12:34, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Template:Tpq. I don't think either of those claims is accurate. Fujimori was massive news throughout his presidency in the 1990s and (fall from grace, conviction, imprisonment, daughter running for president three times) over the following 2½ decades. But as Wikipedia:Systemic bias says, "Wikipedia underrepresents the perspectives of people in the Global South". Moscow Mule (talk) 16:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Alberto Fujimori is a household name across the world, Earl Jones isn't known outside the US. He was dubbed and even those who dubbed his characters aren't particularly celebrated for that
    The fact that you're minimising the impact of a president whose legacy still lingers in South America to an actor known for two voice acting, is quite telling Varoon2542 (talk) 20:11, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb While I have no further light to shed, I believe the above arguments for the blurb/transformative are compelling to support a blurb here. Template:Ping, you did the right thing reopening this. Whether this gets blurbed or not, it’s good to achieve solid consensus and this provided such needed opportunity for discussion. DrewieStewie (talk) 15:23, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I believe that there's a consensus to blurb this and seeing how the two oldest ITN items predates Jones's death, I don't think there's a reason not to blurb this asap. It'd be a real shame if this didn't get blurbed because it got stale due to a long wait. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:15, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Another six hours debating time remaining? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:55, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not just stale and not just a recent death, but a recent death which has already rolled off the RD carousel (where it belonged) for several days. He was 93 and an American actor (sometimes pictured). What's the point in anybody who didn't know this last Monday finding out today? InedibleHulk (talk) 19:17, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Another 7 days needed to properly debate the (potential) inclusion of the name "Darth Vader" in a blurb? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:24, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The only true Vader is Big Van Vader and anyone telling me otherwise is a potentially harmful Contrarian. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:32, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • A decision was already made not to post this. At least twice. No confidence it won't just be reopened again if it's passed over a third time. Just let it roll off when the bot archives it. —Cryptic 19:26, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's one closure and one removal of a needless tag (admins should be the only ones adding these tags IMO). DarkSide830 (talk) 19:39, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abottom

September 8

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 September 8 Template:Cob

(Ready) RD: Ben Thapa

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Template:ITN candidate

Support: article looks OK; Metro isn't a great source for notability/news coverage but also reported in Telegraph, the Independent and RTE. UndercoverClassicist T·C 16:29, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Early life section needs more sources otherwise the article meets bare minimum requirement. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:23, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Template:@ITNA It looks like the article has enough details & references. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:40, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ed Kranepool

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Template:ITN candidate Former first baseman for the New York Mets. 240F:7A:6253:1:6C33:5504:7A1B:88BA (talk) 02:50, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose several paragraphs are lacking any sort of citation. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:24, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ana Gervasi

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Template:ITN candidate

Support article is in a good enough shape. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:00, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

US Open Tennis

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Template:ITN candidate Both articles are GAs, and US Open wins (men's and women's posted together) are covered by ITNR. Not sure how to do it with two pictures -- I assume in practice we would alternate them? UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:19, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing: Israel–Hezbollah conflict

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

  • The linked article asserts this is part of the Israel-Hamas conflict that started in Oct 2023. I'm not seeing how it is different. The linked article above is linked in one of the top navboxes of the main Israel-Hamas page as well. Masem (t) 15:07, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Soft oppose Problem I have with including this in the ongoing section is that currently the conflict is little more than drone and artillery strikes by both sides. If the Israeli army launched a ground offensive into Lebanon, or vice versa, than I would support inclusion. Scu ba (talk) 15:30, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose unless conflict escalates - Right now it's confined to skirmishes and not a full-scale conflict. If we must post this I say we include a spillover link in the ongoing item PrecariousWorlds (talk) 16:08, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above - thus far it's just been exchanges of rocket fire and airstrikes, which is pretty much what it's been for a long time - just that they've gotten more frequent that normal. The Kip (contribs) 16:37, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

(Posted) RD: Henny Moan

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Template:ITN candidate

Per MOS:FILMCAST, a citation isn't required (though there's nothing stopping us providing one) as long as the role is credited. UndercoverClassicist T·C 10:30, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
FILMCAST applies to pages about films, not to BLP, which have higher standards for sourcing. Masem (t) 15:08, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They do, but FILMCAST applies to Template:Tq, not exclusively articles about films (an article on a film actor qualifies as "film-related", in my view, under any reasonable reading). The BLP sourcing standards in question are that Template:Tq must be sourced. Putting those together, a citation would of course be welcome in any case, and required if there was a reasonable chance that someone would dispute whether she held a particular role. UndercoverClassicist T·C 16:39, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see where it says a citation is not required. Can you quote the excerpt? —Bagumba (talk) 06:47, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Green This is a case where the exception proves the rule -- by specifying that uncredited roles need a citation, it follows that credited roles do not (necessarily) require one. It's also covered by WP:PRIMARY, which has Template:Green: if a credit to the person is visible when watching the film, the film itself is a sufficient citation for the statement that they held a credited role, unless there is good reason to require further (dis)proof. UndercoverClassicist T·C 10:41, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So, the essence in what you are saying, is that citing the film itself (say, a dvd, or an online version) is sufficient for a credited role. But if there are no citations at all, we can not know whether the information is just taken from an «unreliable» source, such as another wiki or imdb. Oceanh (talk) 11:16, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I suppose that would be a good way to do it, and within the spirit of WP:PRIMARY. Not required doesn't mean that it's required not to be included. UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article looks alright to me. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:09, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Typhoon Yagi

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Template:ITN candidate The storm made historic landfall, the death toll continued to rise, and the article is in good shape. HurricaneEdgar 00:43, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Its a current weather event, so it should be recent. Sources are reliable and the context is notable. NikolaiVektovich (talk) 16:50, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as Yagi is absolutely notable enough to be in ITN. Shouldn't this be closed now? OhHaiMark (talk) 17:29, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 7

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 September 7 Template:Cob

(Posted) 2024 Algerian presidential election

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Template:ITN candidate

There was a very long discussion as to not try and accidentally convey that the Russian election was anything more than a sham from what I remember. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:15, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: I think "which the opposition boycotted" is sufficient for the reader to join the necessary dots, and is nicely factual and verifiable, whereas "the election was fraudulent" is much trickier. UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:14, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree, fraud is a crime and labelling something fraudulent requires a legal process usually (as would e.g. murder or theft); given this is a de facto dictatorship we may never get any closure ever even if the regime falls as to how fraudulent or not this election is. At the same time I have long argued not to mislead by suggesting equivalency between fair and sham elections. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:13, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping I expanded the lead. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:25, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Template:@ITNA It looks like the article’s good enough now. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:30, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Diondre Overton

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Template:ITN candidate Former Clemson wide receiver. 240F:7A:6253:1:6C2D:D568:97D0:2125 (talk) 03:40, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support the article seems fine to me. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:30, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support It looks like the article has enough details & references. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 07:41, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Dan Morgenstern

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Template:ITN candidate Thriley (talk) 02:02, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 6

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(Posted) RD: Rebecca Horn

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Template:ITN candidate German visual artist. Grimes2 (talk) 10:40, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ron Yeats

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Template:ITN candidate Scottish footballer. 240F:7A:6253:1:6C2D:D568:97D0:2125 (talk) 03:40, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Cathy Merrick

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Template:ITN candidate Indigenous leader in Canada and Grand Chief of the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs. Ornithoptera (talk) 06:04, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Paul Goldsmith

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Template:ITN candidate RegalZ8790 (talk) 01:33, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing: Brazilian investigation into Elon Musk

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Template:Close top Template:ITN candidate ArionStar (talk) 23:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Close bottom

RD: Sérgio Mendes

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Template:ITN candidate Brazilian musician. 240F:7A:6253:1:E121:3DD7:6095:EC33 (talk) 16:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose orange tag, unsourced awards section and only 8 references for a bit long article. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:37, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) San Marino national football team

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate Holapaco77 (talk) 11:50, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose While interesting, it's more suited for DYK than ITN, as per Pats2017 and Nfitz. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 07:57, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

September 5

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(Ready) RD: Herbie Flowers

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Template:ITN candidate English bass guitarist and member of T. Rex. 240F:7A:6253:1:7989:33F2:8DF6:8310 (talk) 16:23, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: played bass on Lou Reed's "Walk on the Wild Side" and on David Essex's "Rock On". By the end of the 1970s, Flowers had played bass on an estimated 500 hit recordings. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:57, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Radha Charan Gupta

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Template:ITN candidate One of the most prolific and celebrated Indian historians of mathematics. –jacobolus (t) 05:28, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Laurent Tirard

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Template:ITN candidate French film director and screenwriter. 240F:7A:6253:1:E121:3DD7:6095:EC33 (talk) 15:37, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Looks good. Cognitivism (talk) 16:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose most of the info on the article is unsourced. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:40, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Rich Homie Quan

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Template:ITN candidate Heatrave (talk) 19:05, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Michel Barnier appointed Prime Minister of France

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Template:ITN candidate UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:31, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, not ITN/R but still very relevant as the conclusion of two months of political uncertainty. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 13:44, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support looks good, politically relevant and a major event especially following the stalling of rejection of a leftist government. Scu ba (talk) 14:46, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, there doesn't seem to be anything significant written about him between the 2022 election and now. Sourcing all of the awards unfortunately would be difficult (though I see some were removed, which is perfectly fine by me). Gödel2200 (talk) 18:03, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's unfortunate -- my hope is that good sources for them exist, but I can't find anything (even in the awarding nations' languages) other than Wikipedias or Wiki-mirrors. The German Wikipedia has a very suspicious citation to "Federal Government" (in plain text) for the German award. All removed for now -- we now have no CN tags and I think the article's referencing should be up to the standard we need. UndercoverClassicist T·C 18:39, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support The article is much better cited now, with only one uncited award left. It would be good to have more detail about this years French legislative election on his page (it only is mentioned in the lede right now). Gödel2200 (talk) 19:11, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oops -- I missed that one -- another dubious case; removed. UndercoverClassicist T·C 20:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as it's been over 2 months since the French parliamentary elections, and this is a notable change in head of government. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 16:00, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The prime minister is indeed the head of the executive branch in France. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 14:54, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ITNR uses List of current heads of state and government to determine who administers the executive of each country and for France it is the President of France. This reply can also be my Oppose !vote I guess.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 04:47, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia is not a reliable source, especially a page that does not cite any sources, such as the one you mention. As is well known, executive power is shared between the President and the Prime Minister according to the French Constitution. The Prime Minister heads the government, which "determines and conducts government policy". This is particularly evident in periods of cohabitation, such as the current period. Cf. [33]. The error on the page you mention has been fixed based on Article 21 of the French constitution. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 07:13, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The status of the current period as a cohabitation is still being discussed by reliable sources, as it is pretty much a unique situation between an entirely presidential regime and a "full" cohabitation. While the Prime Minister himself calls it "coexistence" rather than "cohabitation", political analysts describe it as "a new form of cohabitation", with the portmanteau "coalitation" being especially popular as the power shifts from the President to the National Assembly. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 23:11, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Leaving aside forumy discussions about whether a PM from a party holding fewer than 40 seats in the National Assembly represents a true transfer of power reflective of the results of the legislative election, the fact remains that the PM is (at the very least the nominative) co-leader of the executive branch and therefore his appointment is newsworthy. Article 21: Template:Tq The correction of the error mentioned above makes the appointment of a French PM automatic by virtue of Wikipedia:ITNELECTIONS.-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 01:16, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support The appointment of a head of government after months of chaos is notable. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 13:00, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It appears you have made 200 edits to mainspace. Feel free to get some experience by fixing whatever you see as problematic. As for whether the Prime Minister of a country whose government is run by the prime minister is a notable position, we'll have to agree to disagree. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 14:51, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not literate in French so it'd be hard for me to improve that article by finding sources without relying on Google Translate (which seems unreliable). But your point is taken, I should spend more time in mainspace. :) Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We only require the targeted article to be of sufficient quality - if we required all articles linked from the blurb to be of good quality, nothing would ever be posted. Gödel2200 (talk) 16:16, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Those opposing are doing so largely based on faulty arguments: firstly, executive power is "bicephalous" (two-headed) in France. While the power of the prime minister is largely nominal when the President and PM are from the same party, this is not the case during divided government. Secondly, whether the nomination process is democratic or not does not determine whether something is newsworthy. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 08:32, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And what exactly makes this appointment newsworthy/extraordinary compared to any other appointment? 31.44.224.222 (talk) 10:07, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:ITNELECTIONS, good IP with 20 contribs.-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 12:19, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I still struggle to see any extraordinary reasons for this to be posted and as kcmastrpc pointed out, prime minister of France is still orange tagged.
Furthermore, please refrain from continuing attempting to poison the well, as the amount of contributions anyone have has little to do with the validity of their arguments and doesn't help your case. 31.44.224.222 (talk) 14:15, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The mention of your lack of experience is an attempt to explain your lack of understanding of the appropriate guideline that has been provided. Nothing extraordinary is required to post the appointment of a new head of government after 8 weeks of delay. That is not to say that this appointment is not extraordinary, given the extraordinary circumstances, but that is not relevant to a decision here. Moreover, after adding five standard references and a book review, I've removed the orange tag on prime minister of France. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 16:42, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My IP is not static. Let's end our discussion on this page here since we're going dangerously off-topic.31.44.224.222 (talk) 10:23, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Why not just add a bit to the current blurb?
ALT 1: Michel Barnier (pictured) is appointed Prime Minister of France by President Emmanuel Macron leading La France Insoumise to organize protests.-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 02:22, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Might be wise to cut the "organised by", since my understanding is that other left-wing groups have had a role in organising some of the events -- could I suggest ALT2: "...by President Emmanuel Macron, leading to nationwide anti-government protests." UndercoverClassicist T·C 09:14, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fine with me... -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 18:24, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Important country, important event. People will be turning to the Wikipedia article for information. Like the role of president and prime minister, which differs from every other country I can think of. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 15:18, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Independent of the actual power of the PM, it's worth noting the situation here. French politics have increasingly heated lately, new elections were called, and Macron's recently appointed PM resigned within a year. Meanwhile, he goes with a different sort of pick here, but not without some backlash by the public. Again, this is discounting the actual power of the French PM, which seems to be understated in this discussion. DarkSide830 (talk) 23:53, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose His predecessor's item was pulled from the ITN section, so I don't see why this should be posted. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:44, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
His predecessor's item was posted. It was later pulled due to a lack of consensus over the blurb language (inclusion or not of his status as the first openly gay PM). The case was different too, of course, because it was not a situation of cohabitation (in which the President's primacy over the executive is lost to the PM). Template:Diff2, but do not support posting Barnier. I'm confused as to why when the PM is exercising executive power you oppose, but when the PM was only administering the President's will you supported. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 15:34, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@SashiRolls, when I posted the support vote at the item, it was my only 15th edit to ITN/C page and was still learning the entire process. Since that time I've made more than 600 edits and I would have opposed that nomination now. Now, why I supported that nomination was because of his sexuality (shouldn't have). My Opposition now has more to do to with the power of the PM. Also, considering the political atmosphere right now, we may see such nominee in the near future again. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:50, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per SashiRolls. FlipandFlopped ツ 22:08, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Rebecca Cheptegei

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Template:ITN candidate

September 4

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(Posted) RD: Hans-Ulrich Schmincke

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Template:ITN candidate

Support Looks good to me. Hungry403 (talk) 03:58, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support looks ready to be posted. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:45, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not ready Nowhere in the prose does it say that he's died. Schwede66 00:16, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed, thank you! Chaiten1 (talk) 10:01, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support This article has enough details & references. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 09:14, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Noel Parmentel

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Template:ITN candidate

(Closed) Apalachee High School shooting

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

Template:Abot

RD: Luis Ayala

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Template:ITN candidate

Oppose outstanding number of cn tags and a performance timeline would look nice. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:50, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Bora Đorđević

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Template:ITN candidate

Oppose majority of this article is unsourced. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:51, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 3

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RD: Wayne Graham

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Template:ITN candidate Former coach for the Rice Owls. 240F:7A:6253:1:DDC5:B4B4:9ABF:9780 (talk) 22:23, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Vladimir Bure

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Template:ITN candidate Four Olympic medals, two Stanley Cups. 21:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

RD: Charley Johnson

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Template:ITN candidate Former quarterback for the Denver Broncos. 240F:7A:6253:1:2D26:E48C:3EF9:D097 (talk) 19:11, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose orange tag in the Professional career section needs to be resolved. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:54, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jacqueline Winsor

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Template:ITN candidate Canadian-born American sculptor and contributor to the feminist movement. Article in good shape. Jmanlucas (talk) 23:12, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support I don’t see any glaring issues with the article. 27.96.223.192 (talk) 06:32, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support good quality article. Chaiten1 (talk) 06:53, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait three cn tags are still there. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:55, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Template:@ITNA This has enough details & references now. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:40, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 2

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(Posted) 2024 Makala prison jailbreak attempt

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Template:ITN candidate

The article is no longer a stub now, and looks long enough. Gödel2200 (talk) 11:44, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Mahara prison riot and Tuluá prison riot noms were not posted only due to quality issues (meaning there was not consensus against notability). For the other two mentioned examples (the February 2021 Ecuadorian prison riots and September 2021 Guayaquil prison riot), it does not seem that they were even nominated, which means there was not consensus against posting. In fact, prison riots do get featured on ITN. See for example this one, which was from June 2023. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:32, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Rodolfo Hernández Suárez

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Template:ITN candidate Article updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:27, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is in a good shape. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:06, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: James Darren

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Template:ITN candidate

Needs work entire lead section is uncited. 27.96.223.192 (talk) 03:34, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose a orange tag, multiple cn tags, unsourced discography and filmography. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:07, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: John Schultz (footballer, born 1938)

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Template:ITN candidate

Oppose orange tag needs to be resolved. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:08, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed, newer entry available) Typhoon Yagi (2024)

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

Template:Abot

September 1

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(Posted) RD: Pete Wade

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Template:ITN candidate

Weak Support while I would love to see an expansion, I think the article is just about alright. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:40, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Azerbaijani parliamentary election

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Template:ITN candidate

Doesn't change the fact all national elections are ITNR. Scu ba (talk) 17:33, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Shocking election result, never saw it coming. Jokes aside it's ITNR and article is improving PrecariousWorlds (talk) 16:26, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support ALT 2 Reliable sources, and many presidential elections have previously been on MP. NikolaiVektovich (talk) 16:48, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tim Bowden

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Template:ITN candidate

Oppose article is a stub, needs more expansion. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:11, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Linda Deutsch

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Template:ITN candidate 240F:7A:6253:1:7969:2ABE:E6E3:A515 (talk) 02:58, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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