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July 31
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July 31, 2024 (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
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International relations
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(Posted) RD: Anshuman Gaekwad
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Article: Anshuman Gaekwad (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of India
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of India
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Ktin (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Simplyarnab (talk · give credit) and Vimalkalyan (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Former Indian cricketer and cricket coach. Edits done. Article has shaped up into a decent biography. Rater.js says B-class, but, I think it is atleast a solid C. Appreciate a pair of eyes on this nomination. Ktin (talk) 17:02, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article looks to be of sufficient quality. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 19:55, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Posted – Schwede66 03:02, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
(Attention Required) RD: Paul Bucha
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Article: Paul Bucha (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Task & Purpose
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Task & Purpose
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:A80D:4F7:9392:624C (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Nohomersryan (talk · give credit) and 2601:449:4582:b3c0:f5e8:51c8:d1c2:4290 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Vietnam War veteran and Medal of Honor recipient. 240F:7A:6253:1:A80D:4F7:9392:624C (talk) 18:41, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
- Weak support Article looks mostly fine but the dead links are suboptimal. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 19:52, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Two of the deadlinks have been replaced. --PFHLai (talk) 12:52, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) September 11 prosecutions
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
_-_B6019~11.jpg)
Blurb: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Walid bin Attash, and Mustafa al-Hawsawi agree to plead guilty in connection with planning the September 11 attacks (pictured). (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:
- Nominated by ElijahPepe (talk · give credit)
- Wait significant, but the actual trial will the event that gets coverage. Hold until then. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 22:04, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is no formal trial for these defendants, only a military commission. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 22:07, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sentencing, sorry. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 00:40, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- There is no formal trial for these defendants, only a military commission. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 22:07, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose good story but no significant change for these men. They are already in custody and will remain so. Natg 19 (talk) 22:34, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Article is appropriately orange tagged and appears to need lots of work. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:41, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Conditional support The really notable thing here is their guilty plea removes the possibility of a death penalty (instead they will serve a life sentence) but also removes the possibility of a trial and the risk of the case being overturned due to 'invalid' evidence This has been in flux for years, and its an important development after a decade+ of legal drama. With that said, there could be a possible 'mini trial' and we could post then (likely next year). Or post now, but after improvements to the article (currently only contains a single sentence about the guilty plea and is not nearly ready for ITN). Schwinnspeed (talk) 22:52, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose, the article isn't in good shape and this isn't notable Personisinsterest (talk) 23:45, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, big news. this is the biggest development in this case that has been ongoing for more than 20 years. A guilty plea wasn't expected because there was talk of the government wanting to imprison them for life (or just sentence them to death). President Biden even denied a plea proposal just last September. — That Coptic Guyping me! (talk) (contribs) 01:36, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose This is really nothing, doesn't cap off anything since they've been incarcerated since. Article is also poor quality, far too much proseline and details and not really a narrative approach of a quality article. --Masem (t) 01:40, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose WTF? This event was 20 years ago. The first thing the article needs to explain is why this is happening at all right now. And a quick glance didn't answer that question for me. A simple explanation for us ignorant masses please, before I can support anything being posted. HiLo48 (talk) 01:56, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- @HiLo48 - Various leaders of al-Qaeda and their associates have been imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay since the early days of the Bush administration, on charges that they were the planners behind 9/11 alongside bin Laden. The U.S. government has brought up a criminal case against them and has purposely drawn it out so these terrorists have little to no chance of release. The death penalty or life in prison is what they were seeking, and there were also concerns that exculpatory evidence was being withheld. Today, indeed after 20+ years, a deal seems to have been reached where the terrorists have entered a guilty plea. It is the most significant movement in the case against the 9/11 terrorists in years. — That Coptic Guyping me! (talk) (contribs) 02:39, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- User:That Coptic Guy Thanks for that explanation. I'd suggest that some of what you've written there needs to be right up front in the article this nomination is based on. This is a global encyclopaedia, and a lot of readers will be like me, quite unaware of that background information. HiLo48 (talk) 03:23, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- @HiLo48 - Various leaders of al-Qaeda and their associates have been imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay since the early days of the Bush administration, on charges that they were the planners behind 9/11 alongside bin Laden. The U.S. government has brought up a criminal case against them and has purposely drawn it out so these terrorists have little to no chance of release. The death penalty or life in prison is what they were seeking, and there were also concerns that exculpatory evidence was being withheld. Today, indeed after 20+ years, a deal seems to have been reached where the terrorists have entered a guilty plea. It is the most significant movement in the case against the 9/11 terrorists in years. — That Coptic Guyping me! (talk) (contribs) 02:39, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Comment — The linked article unquestionably needs more work. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 05:05, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Opppose There's a better argument to post when they're actually sentenced. Estreyeria (talk) 13:38, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose The pleas seem unreliable as it seems well established that the accused have been subjected to extensive torture rather like Peine forte et dure. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:17, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Currently, the article does not indicate that they have actually pled guilty. Certainly we would not post people only "agreeing" to plead guilty. And even if they do plead guilty, they would still not have been sentenced. Gödel2200 (talk) 00:17, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Moussa Dadis Camara convicted
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Article: Moussa Dadis Camara (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Former President of Guinea Moussa Dadis Camara is found guilty of crimes against humanity. (Post)
News source(s): [1]
Credits:
Blurb: Former President of Guinea Moussa Dadis Camara is found guilty of crimes against humanity. (Post)
News source(s): [1]
Credits:
- Nominated by Gödel2200 (talk · give credit)
The article looks to be well sourced. It has a outdated tag, though I'm not sure this is really necessary. Gödel2200 (talk) 17:05, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support fairly notable Ion.want.uu (talk) 18:49, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support as per Ion.want.uu, news from Africa rarely reach western audiences, and debatabaly, it is just as significant as highly visible events, such as the recent assassination of Ismail Haniyeh. Article needs some more work, though. Viva Nicolás (talk) 23:21, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, notable Personisinsterest (talk) 23:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality, article still needs plenty of work. Among other issues, there is a tag that has been there for almost 10 years asking for an update on the massacre that the former president is responsible for. — That Coptic Guyping me! (talk) (contribs) 01:55, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality per above. Will switch to support if/when it’s improved, a former head of state being convicted of crimes against humanity is notable enough. The Kip (contribs) 02:27, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on Quality per above. Definitely something that should be posted if/when the page is brought up to scratch. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:18, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle but oppose on quality per above This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 04:31, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability as per above. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 04:53, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Support per notability. Scu ba (talk) 17:42, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle but the few tag issues remaining should be resolved before posting. Yakikaki (talk) 18:01, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) Killing of Ismail Haniyeh
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Blurb: Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of Hamas, is killed in Tehran. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Ismail Haniyeh, the political leader of Hamas, is assassinated in Tehran.
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:
- Nominated by ElijahPepe (talk · give credit)
- Wait Lets get some more detail and flesh out the article. Right now we don't know much at all. It's also worth noting that today/tonight Israel is believed to have killed a senior military commander of Hezbollah in Beirut. Kind of reminds me of the last 10 minutes of The Godfather when all of the family's accounts are settled. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:59, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Zero need for a separate death article, unless the actual operation that took him down is well documented. Save for a couple of tags, the main bio article is ready to go. (And this is pending confirmation that seems up in the air right now. And to add once more, if true, clearly notable and ITN appropriate beyond the current ongoings) --Masem (t) 04:05, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong support Confirmed by Iranian sources, which are likely to be biased more towards Haniyeh and in favor of reporting him alive, but that is not the case. Apart from the legitimacy of this assassination, I strongly disagree with Masem in this regard and believe this should have a standalone article aswell as this marks the highest killing of a Hamas official/leader since the Israel-Hamas war started on October 7 and since the killing of Saleh al Arouri in January. Although it's very early right now to say anything about the killing, I believe as more time passes, more information will eventually be revealed as this is a huge event. Worst case scenario, if the killing is so poorly documented, I still believe it should have a standalone section in some article somewhere. Haniyeh has also held numerous positions other than just leading Hamas. TwistedAxe [contact] 04:27, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Unlike Killing of Osama bin Laden, where there is a great deal of discussion of the specific operation as well as the past attempts to kill him, all that is in the present article is 50% reaction material, 25% background, and the rest speculation as to the actual event. This is not how we write event articles, but we certainly can present the death as part of the biographical article. --Masem (t) 12:00, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Right, but I believe we’re still in the early stages and clearing the fog of war. If the dust settles and the assassination is still poorly documented, I’d say we put it under the Death section definitely. If, however, enough information is presented, I’d say we definitely keep the standalone article. TwistedAxe [contact] 14:17, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's not unreasonable to have kept the details in both the bio article as well as at least one of the overarching ongoing articles about this Gaza conflict, particularly the latter because it provides the necessarily context of the larger picture. And then if extensive details of the actual Assassination emerge later then create the standalone. But this reverse way encourages bad splits as the potential of POV forks, as well as poor quality articles in trying to isolate the event from the larger picture without clearly knowing if that split makes sense. This type of approach is contrary to NOTNEWS and doesn't make for high quality ITN material that we are supposed to feature. Masem (t) 14:27, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Right, but I believe we’re still in the early stages and clearing the fog of war. If the dust settles and the assassination is still poorly documented, I’d say we put it under the Death section definitely. If, however, enough information is presented, I’d say we definitely keep the standalone article. TwistedAxe [contact] 14:17, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Unlike Killing of Osama bin Laden, where there is a great deal of discussion of the specific operation as well as the past attempts to kill him, all that is in the present article is 50% reaction material, 25% background, and the rest speculation as to the actual event. This is not how we write event articles, but we certainly can present the death as part of the biographical article. --Masem (t) 12:00, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality: Article still needs a lot more work in order to qualify for ITN. More information is also needed on the assassination. Support once all these issues have been addressed. Tofusaurus (talk) 04:31, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait - article is still developing/too short, and fog of war is still very much in effect w/ regards to exactly what happened (airstrike vs “raid,” official claims of responsibility, etc). Pretty much all that’s clearly confirmed at this moment is that he was assassinated in the first place. The Kip (contribs) 04:39, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong support, per TwistedAxe. The article should be "Assassination of Ismail Haniyeh".--Dr-Taher (talk) 04:48, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support ITN worthy, but wait until more reporting comes in, then we need to add the cause of death to the blurb because the current one is too short Afif Brika1 (talk) 05:06, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. Assassination of Ismail Haniyeh is just one small section of Ismail Haniyeh that was split out into its own stub for some reason. If this were fixed, then the main article would just need a little proseline clean up before it's ready. It's also developing a list of WP:INDISCRIMINATE trivia in the "responses" section as these articles often do, so that's another barrier. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 05:31, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on the basis of it being a notable event. Kurtis (talk) 05:48, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support per above This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 06:37, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability, huge development. Shadow4dark (talk) 07:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb to specify that Haniyeh was the group's political leader rather than military leader. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 09:03, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, This is an important point to mention. Dr-Taher (talk) 09:13, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. ToadetteEdit! 10:29, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. On notability. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 10:35, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong support on notability Personisinsterest (talk) 10:51, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- By the way, can we get a picture of him in here? Personisinsterest (talk) 11:57, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Support Israel-Palestine is arguably the most notable topic in the world right now , Article is good enough . Altblurb is better as it states that he was political leader AlexBobCharles (talk) 11:17, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 12:00, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Why not note that he was political leader? 3 people (including me) supported this in this discussion AlexBobCharles (talk) 12:22, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, this mention is important. _-_Alsor (talk) 13:09, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed, it's important to specify that Haniyeh ws the political leader. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 13:59, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Why not note that he was political leader? 3 people (including me) supported this in this discussion AlexBobCharles (talk) 12:22, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- FYI, there are NPOV issues with the article[2].VR (Please ping on reply) 13:15, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-Post Support Ion.want.uu (talk) 13:25, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-Post Support - Article well cited and well written, except for the WP:FLAGCRUFT. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 13:36, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Pull NPOV issues. Noah, BSBATalk 14:05, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- That is a dispute about some organization of the page and not substantive. There is no reason for an over reaction from here. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 14:10, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- +1 The NPOV disagreement is small AlexBobCharles (talk) 14:13, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- That is a dispute about some organization of the page and not substantive. There is no reason for an over reaction from here. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 14:10, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-posting conditional support - Disagree that NPOV issues warrant pulling, but agree with the above discussion that any blurb should specify he led the political bureau for clarity and accuracy. He was not the commander of the militant organization. The leader of the military wing, Mohammed Deif, is still alive. The average reader could plausibly assume "leader of Hamas" means the leader of the militant group, which is not accurate. An average reader might also assume that him being "the Hamas leader" meant he was the leader of the Gaza Strip, which is also an inaccurate reading as that person is Yahya Sinwar, who is also still alive. He was the highest ranking Hamas official killed in the war so far, but not important in the ways you might expect just based on his title. I do not support having it posted with the current blurb. Vanilla Wizard 💙 19:48, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-Posting comment As pointed above in detail by Vanilla Wizard and others , blurb should specify he was leader of the political bureau AlexBobCharles (talk) 20:51, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
_(cropped).jpg)
- How come no votes for Oppose as part of ongoing? QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 08:46, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
An armed conflict between Israel and Hamas-led Palestinian militant groups has been taking place chiefly in the Gaza Strip and southern Israel since 7 October 2023.
This outlier took place in Tehran, killing a non-militant. That's the way I see it, anyway. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:02, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Post-posting support and comment Article looks good and I firmly believe (as long the article quality is good) assassinations are blurb worthy. @Stephen: Would it be possible to swap images with a better crop? --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 19:51, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
RD: Robert Fellowes, Baron Fellowes
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Article: Robert Fellowes, Baron Fellowes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [3] [4]
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [3] [4]
Credits:
- Nominated by Walco1 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Private secretary to Elizabeth II in the 1990s and brother-in-law of Diana, Princess of Wales. Walco1 (talk) 15:17, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Could use a few more footnotes. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 16:37, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
- Four {cn} tags remaining. --PFHLai (talk) 16:15, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
- None remaining, obits published in Times, Telegraph and Guardian. Walco1 (talk) 18:37, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Four {cn} tags remaining. --PFHLai (talk) 16:15, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
July 30
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July 30, 2024 (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Sports
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(Posted) RD: Fuad Shukr
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Article: Fuad Shukr (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/31/who-isfuad-shukr
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/31/who-isfuad-shukr
Credits:
- Created by Eladkarmel (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Longhornsg (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Hezbollah commander killed by Israel in Beirut. 2002:8E01:20E3:0:0:0:8E01:20E3 (talk) 19:22, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article looks fine. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 19:41, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- Posted – Schwede66 02:55, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
RD: Onyeka Onwenu
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Article: Onyeka Onwenu (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Businsess Day (Nigeria)
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Businsess Day (Nigeria)
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:D057:E125:D731:507A (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Nenub (talk · give credit) and Cleanupbabe (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nigerian singer-songwriter and actress. 240F:7A:6253:1:D057:E125:D731:507A (talk) 06:56, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Prose could use more footnotes. Place of birth mentioned in the infobox is not sourced nor mentioned in the main prose. Only one item in the Filmography is sourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 15:59, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) 2024 Wayanad landslides
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Article: 2024 Wayanad landslides (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: At least 300 people die as a result of 2024 Wayanad landslides in Wayanad, India. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Landslides in Wayanad, India kill at least 300 people.
Alternative blurb II: The deadliest landslides in Kerala history kill at least 300 in Wayanad.
News source(s): https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2024/8/2/bring-him-back-hope-meets-loss-in-indian-villages-hit-by-landslides
Credits:
Blurb: At least 300 people die as a result of 2024 Wayanad landslides in Wayanad, India. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Landslides in Wayanad, India kill at least 300 people.
Alternative blurb II: The deadliest landslides in Kerala history kill at least 300 in Wayanad.
News source(s): https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2024/8/2/bring-him-back-hope-meets-loss-in-indian-villages-hit-by-landslides
Credits:
- Nominated by Pachu Kannan (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Quake1234 (talk · give credit), Golem469 (talk · give credit), Spworld2 (talk · give credit), Sherenk1 (talk · give credit) and Pachu Kannan (talk · give credit)
These landslides got international media attention. Pachu Kannan (talk) 15:38, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - Notable enough, with multiple international media mentions. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 06:18, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - Deadliest landslide in the region. Article is good enough to post. Sherenk1 (talk) 10:24, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Article structure is good enough to post. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 10:39, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, notable and deadly, and article is finePersonisinsterest (talk) 11:24, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- also, altblurb 2 Personisinsterest (talk) 11:24, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 12:05, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) 2024 Venezuela protests
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: 2024 Venezuelan protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Protests erupt in Venezuela against the Maduro government, after his victory in the 2024 elections that was widely seen as fraudulent. (Post)
Alternative blurb: In Venezuela widespread protests erupt as the official 2024 election results are contested.
Alternative blurb II: Widespread protests erupt after Nicolás Maduro is declared the winner of Venezuela's 2024 presidential election amid allegations of electoral fraud.
Alternative blurb III: At least 19 people are killed during widespread protests in Venezuela after Nicolás Maduro claims to have won the 2024 presidential election amid allegations of electoral fraud.
Alternative blurb IV: Protests erupt after Nicolás Maduro is declared the winner of Venezuela's 2024 presidential election
Credits:
This should probably be combined with the blurb below, but I think the protests are only becoming larger and larger, and are now international news. Article is making good progress. Libertad! PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:37, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
Blurb: Protests erupt in Venezuela against the Maduro government, after his victory in the 2024 elections that was widely seen as fraudulent. (Post)
Alternative blurb: In Venezuela widespread protests erupt as the official 2024 election results are contested.
Alternative blurb II: Widespread protests erupt after Nicolás Maduro is declared the winner of Venezuela's 2024 presidential election amid allegations of electoral fraud.
Alternative blurb III: At least 19 people are killed during widespread protests in Venezuela after Nicolás Maduro claims to have won the 2024 presidential election amid allegations of electoral fraud.
Alternative blurb IV: Protests erupt after Nicolás Maduro is declared the winner of Venezuela's 2024 presidential election
Credits:
- Nominated by PrecariousWorlds (talk · give credit)
- Support: This would obviously be better than a blurb only about Maduro's win. Article is small but is expanding. Prodrummer619 (talk) 10:51, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Perhaps reads more like a chronology, but well updated. And anecdotally, the BBC News report leads with the scale and severity of the protests, only saying "disputed re-election" as context - so I don’t think this needs to be combined with or wait for the election nom (below), it’s sufficiently standalone news. Kingsif (talk) 12:19, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose I know that there are protests going on there, but just listing a bunch of events in a chronological order without anything else that indicates these are all tied together is not a quality article. --Masem (t) 12:24, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Surely we would combine this blurb with the blurb for the election, so this nomination probably can just be replaced by adding an altblurb to the nom for the presidential election. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:07, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I have added an alt blurb. Unfortunately I am not (as of this comment) satisfied with the quality of the main article on the elections. But I do think the situation in Venezuela merits a blurb on the main page. The protest article is adequate for posting. I have included an unbolded link to the article on the elections. Hopefully it will continue to improve. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:47, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Perhaps a combined blurb could be something like "Widespread protests erupt after Nicolas Maduro is declared the winner of Venezuela's contested (or "controversial") 2024 presidential election". PtolemyXV (talk) 15:56, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Added alt3. It can definitely be improved; death toll taken from the article, which could also be improved, especially after another day. Kingsif (talk) 20:54, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support National election results are noteworthy, and I think the quality of the article will continue to improve given the magnitude of the event. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 21:03, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose the blurbs as politically charged, we didn't say it like that for the Rwandan election, even though it is more likely to have had irregularities, judging from the results. Also, wait for the protests to unfold further as they clearly been planned well beforehand, and the article is also largely currently only one-sided. Viva Nicolás (talk) 12:02, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Added alt4. There really is no need to append that the results are disputed - the protests themselves would indicate this. And I'm not sure the usage of "widespread" is needed here. But I do think this is to best, and works as a combined blurb. DarkSide830 (talk) 14:59, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support alt4, as it is more neutral and not politically charged i.e. imply which side the protests are on. Wait on article about the protests, as work needs to be done to ensure the article is not all on the anti-Chavista side. Viva Nicolás (talk) 23:10, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose in general; this article is not being developed, is woefully incomplete, the infobox is mostly OR, and I don't see any chance it is going to improve because of lack of effort. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:59, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- I hope someone who speaks Spanish is checking this article; I don't have time. I checked only the last line on the current page, and found it wrong. In general, the article isn't mainpage ready and it doesn't appear that anyone is working to get it that way. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:45, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I copied my note on the July 29 listing here. These are some comments I would like to restate:
- IMO, I think the only thing in the way of this being posted is the flagrant political bias in both articles. I think I would like to work on this ^ - ^ --Viva Nicolás (talk) 04:46, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Remember when the 2019 Bolivian general election was overturned by protests when the opposition alleged they were rigged, but the 2020 Bolivian general election run under the coup regime definitively showed otherwise. Viva Nicolás (talk) 06:13, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- The election article can be formatted like the 2019 Bolivian general election article, while the protests article can be formatted like the 2019 Bolivian protests article. Viva Nicolás (talk) 06:19, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Support: The protests that have erupted due to the controversial and disputed election results Wilfredor (talk) 23:50, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
(Posted) RD: William Calley
edit
Article: William Calley (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:
- Nominated by Ad Orientem (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Nohomersryan (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American war criminal. Only man convicted in the My Lai Massacre. He died on April 28th but his death was only just reported. Article is in decent shape. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:53, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
Support! He was the only one convicted in this important event. 109.43.48.31 (talk) 13:28, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- We'll post anyone important enough to have a Wikipedia page; we only assess article quality here. Bremps... 15:05, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support One cn tag shouldn't keep hit this otherwise lengthy well sourced article from getting posted. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:59, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- I have added a cite and removed the only CN tag. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:14, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - Article meets ITN standards for posting. Jusdafax (talk) 00:03, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 06:00, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
July 29
edit|
July 29, 2024 (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Sports
|
(Closed) Malarndirri McCarthy
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: appointment as Minister for Indigenous Australians - a significant appointment following last year's failed Indigenous Voice to Parliament referendum - ongoing recent news about her recent appearance at the Garma Festival with the PM (Post)
News source(s): https://humanrights.gov.au/about/news/media-releases/commissioner-katie-kiss-welcomes-malarndirri-mccarthy-new-minister https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/malarndirri-mccarthy-steps-up-as-new-minister-for-indigenous-australians/pjdvtldhy
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Laterthanyouthink (talk · give credit)
Article updated
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
RD: Chino XL
edit
Article: Chino XL (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stone, Variety
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stone, Variety
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:FD24:8B6B:DCD3:55B5 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by TheAstuteObserver (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American rapper and actor. 240F:7A:6253:1:FD24:8B6B:DCD3:55B5 (talk) 21:33, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not ready for the usual reason. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:45, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Discography and Filmography sections lack sourcing. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 12:10, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
RD: Robert Banas
edit
Article: Robert Banas (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:FD24:8B6B:DCD3:55B5 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Tinton5 (talk · give credit) and Jkaharper (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American dancer and actor. 240F:7A:6253:1:FD24:8B6B:DCD3:55B5 (talk) 21:33, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak Support I think the article is adequate (barely) for posting. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:48, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Sources missing for his date and place of birth, and for kissing Marilyn Monroe. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 15:08, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) Deadpool & Wolverine
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Blurb: Deadpool & Wolverine, starring Ryan Reynolds (pictured), breaks box office records for an R-rated movie in its opening weekend (Post)
News source(s): CNN, France24, Hollywood Reporter,LA Times, NYT, Straits Times, Variety
Credits:
- Nominated by Andrew Davidson (talk · give credit)
- Created by Captain Assassin! (talk · give credit)
- Updated by BarntToust (talk · give credit), Favre1fan93 (talk · give credit), KingArti (talk · give credit), Richiekim (talk · give credit) and Trailblazer101 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
This has been a hit with our readers too as the top read article for several straight days now, beating the Olympics, the elections and the rest. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose ITN is not for these types of news. First of all, we do not post News items just because they are the most read one, that goes here. Second, R-rating is just a US specific rating and a large of readers probably do not know about it and therefore this record holds little value to them. Lastly, it is only the 6th largest opening in the US overall and around 12th biggest worldwide opening for any movie, so hardly a groundbreaking record. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:07, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Not the type of business news we post, and to state this yet again, we do not use page views as a metric of whether we should post at ITN in the first place. --Masem (t) 11:57, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per PrinceofPunjab. Estreyeria (talk) 13:08, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per Prince of Punjab. This isn't the overall record, which is inevitably broken due to inflation. This is like saying there is a new tallest building in the world...well, the tallest that Americans under 17 can enter with adult supervision. Unknown Temptation (talk) 13:11, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
(Closed) New UNESCO World Heritage Sites
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: The World Heritage Committee in New Delhi selected 24 new sites for the global List of World Heritage Sites, with the Schwerin Castle in Germany (pictured) among them. (Post)
Alternative blurb: 24 new sites were selected for the global List of World Heritage Sites during the 46th session in New Delhi, India.
Alternative blurb II: The World Heritage Committee designates 24 new UNESCO World Heritage Sites during its 46th session in New Delhi, India (Schwerin Castle in Germany pictured).
News source(s): UNESCO DW EuroNews
Credits:
- Nominated by Horst-schlaemma (talk · give credit)
Article updated
The newly selected UNESCO World Heritage Sites are normally featured in the News here. Example can be left out or swapped, I think it is usually a wonderful addition. -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 09:25, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support After a huge emphasis on sports and politics lately, more cultural news are definitely appreciated! And this is certainly the most relevant of the past few weeks. Venustates (talk) 09:48, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe It's interesting, in the news and encyclopedic but there are over a thousand of these sites now and another 24 seems too many to be headlining particular cases. In the UK, it was the Flow Country which got attention. How do we decide which to feature? Andrew🐉(talk) 10:18, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: I totally get that, that's why I said the example can of course also be left out, though it is nice to have a picturesque example included. But I wouldn't put much emphasis on that. Greetings, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 10:20, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- As I noted below, Ruins of Gedi is a GA and probably the highest-quality article of the sites selected, so it would be a good choice to feature with an image. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:04, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: I totally get that, that's why I said the example can of course also be left out, though it is nice to have a picturesque example included. But I wouldn't put much emphasis on that. Greetings, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 10:20, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support article is in a good shape. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:11, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support with a picture of Ruins of Gedi, which is a GA and has the highest-quality article of the sites selected. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:04, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- The article looks good, no doubt! Though the Good Article batch is from 2017 already and criteria have become quite a bit more strict. Greetings, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 13:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think the Schwerin Castle makes the perfect picture of all new entries! -- Venustates (talk) 13:37, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- The article looks good, no doubt! Though the Good Article batch is from 2017 already and criteria have become quite a bit more strict. Greetings, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 13:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment This happens every year and sometimes more than once per year, and we never post them. This time there are more than 20, and overall more than 1000. What we post are removal of the sites because the countries have managed them badly. This comment coming from someone heavily involved with World Heritage lists ;) --Tone 13:17, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Certainly! At the same time, there are several things that happen every year or multiple times a year, like various sports events, or Oscar recipients (yawn ;) that are *always* posted. It's usually in all national news when a country gets a new World Heritage List entry. -- Venustates (talk) 13:37, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, I'll add that the list is factually inaccurate. For example, the Moravian Church settlements were listed in 2015 in Denmark. In 2024, the site was extended to include sites in the US, UK, and Germany. And yet, in the list, everything is listed as in 2015, which is incorrect. Oppose on quality, and on no prose. (but yes, I am all for posting good news) --Tone 03:54, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ok, if it is just about that very detail, how about just changing it in the article and we're good. :) -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 09:59, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support yeah, why not? I get that it hasn't been posted before but I think doing something different would be interesting. Blythwood (talk) 14:22, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on account more than anything else of not being sure the best way to blurb this. It's a routine event, but unlike an election, prize, or sporting event, there is no "winner". There is no overarching individual story here save the same sort that happens any individual year. Either we're just saying sites are announced (which isn't really news itself because, again, it's a scheduled event), or we're singling out one like in the original blurb, which is putting undue focus on whichever site we select to feature. DarkSide830 (talk) 15:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support It's nice to have positive news instead of the usual assassination, coup, plane crash, or natural disaster. Celjski Grad (talk) 15:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support per above, nice to have something good in itn for once Sharrdx (talk) 15:17, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support A wonderful nomination! With regards to pics, we could feature several ones over the course of the days this stays on top. E.g. start with Gedi, then Schwerin, etc. until something else supersedes this. Should this make it, and be supported also in upcoming years, this could even be a regular feature for ITNR? Khuft (talk) 15:33, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- ITNR would be a lovely idea. However, I don't see how you can vote support when there's so little prose. Bremps... 16:46, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- I really like this idea; could be an excellent way to show off a bunch of our articles! ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:03, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Nice idea! _-_Alsor (talk) 12:57, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on article quality. No stand alone article and in the linked page there is no prose, just tables. I'm not opposed on principle. But we need something with meat on it if we are going to be promoting this on the main page. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:52, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality as there's zero prose. Will support when fixed. The Kip (contribs) 18:05, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle, with no comment on article quality as I haven't looked over any of them yet. I've added a second altblurb for consideration. Kurtis (talk) 18:11, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality I could see us posting this every year, but if the article has no prose, it simply can't be posted. Gödel2200 (talk) 20:16, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose for tabularity and because most sections start with numerals (ending without periods). InedibleHulk (talk) 21:35, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose but suggest transferring to featured list This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 22:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- You've been around long enough to know that "toss to x section" is an extremely poor argument. Curbon7 (talk) 01:06, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose I really want to support given coverage of this has raised my spirits amongst everything else, but per The KIP and Ad Orientem we've declined much more urgent and pressing news in the past due to similar article quality and lack of prose. Schwinnspeed (talk) 02:08, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. This seemingly happens every year and there's nothing particularly remarkable about this one, particularly as we're not highlighting any of them in particular. Incremental statistics are rarely good ITN material. Obviously would need to address the lack of prose too to be even considered. — Amakuru (talk) 05:22, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Would it help to add some prose introduction to the Committee session in the article? Or rather integrate it in the World Heritage Committee article as an individual section that can be updated for every new session when new entries are publicly announced? :) Greetings, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 10:04, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Always cool, but there is no prose update! The section is just a table and that's it. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:02, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Absolutely no article would ever get posted if the only update to it was a table with no prose whatsoever attached, and this should not be an exception. -- Kicking222 (talk) 13:54, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support per principle, as these kinds of news are nice and kind of rare, but I don't know about the articles though. Wish I had the time to polish them up, but I'll be working on the Venezuela articles foreseeably. Viva Nicolás (talk) 12:04, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose I prefer this kind of content for ITN to the usual bleak mirroring of major news outlets' headlines, but the article is quite weak (just a list) and it's essentially something recurring annually by default, so not very strong on the newsworthiness scale, either. Yakikaki (talk) 19:10, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
(Closed) Venezuelan presidential election
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: 2024 Venezuelan presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Nicolás Maduro is announced as the winner of the 2024 Venezuelan presidential election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: In Venezuela, incumbent President Nicolás Maduro is declared the winner of the presidential election.
Alternative blurb II: Incumbent Nicolás Maduro is re-elected President of Venezuela for a third term.
Alternative blurb III: After disputed presidential elections, protests erupt in Venezuela.
Alternative blurb IV: Protests erupt after Nicolás Maduro is declared the winner of Venezuela's 2024 presidential election
News source(s): NY Times BBC News
Credits:
Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Blurb: Nicolás Maduro is announced as the winner of the 2024 Venezuelan presidential election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: In Venezuela, incumbent President Nicolás Maduro is declared the winner of the presidential election.
Alternative blurb II: Incumbent Nicolás Maduro is re-elected President of Venezuela for a third term.
Alternative blurb III: After disputed presidential elections, protests erupt in Venezuela.
Alternative blurb IV: Protests erupt after Nicolás Maduro is declared the winner of Venezuela's 2024 presidential election
News source(s): NY Times BBC News
Credits:
- Nominated by Rockstone35 (talk · give credit)
- Created by Cyfraw (talk · give credit)
- Updated by SandyGeorgia (talk · give credit), Ballers1919 (talk · give credit), PopularGames (talk · give credit), Susmuffin (talk · give credit) and Theasiancowboy (talk · give credit)
Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nicolás Maduro has been announced the winner of the 2024 election. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 04:42, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
Support"Who gets the most votes means nothing. Who counts the votes, means everything" Joseph Stalin -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:50, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not Ready As noted by others, the article has a number of issues that will require some work before this can be posted. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:35, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support ALTBLURB with "declared winner" language used for dubious elections This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 04:59, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support alt disappointing. Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 05:19, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb language used and oppose for citations needed - I caution users to tame their chauvinism. Western media is very obviously biased on this matter. For decades, the West has sought regime change in this nation and election after election we see the West attempt to discredit elections in socialist countries in the Global South. It is frankly disgusting that Wikipedia is joining in this rather than critically assessing our sources for reliability. How many times must we watch as the US manufactures consent for a coup before we realize that we can't trust most US sources on this issue. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 05:32, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Really? The second citation is British.... not American. --RockstoneSend me a message! 05:39, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- You are funny if you think that makes difference. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 05:58, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- With all due respect, it's outrageous to refer to the BBC as a "US source", and it makes you look very bad. Honestly, your entire comment is outrageous and doesn't serve to help the project in any manner. You should consider striking it. --RockstoneSend me a message! 15:30, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Regardless of the authenticity of the election, these discussion pages are not meant to be used to petty bickering. We will use the source deemed most reliable, and whether or not it fits with your stance on the subject, be it politically or as an external perspective/opinion, is not to be taken into consideration. Let's do our best not to become Reddit, thank you. Daneellis114 (talk) 23:26, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah best to close the discussion here PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:31, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- You are funny if you think that makes difference. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 05:58, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- For about the 50th time in the last month to various users, personal commentary doesn’t help this project. The Kip (contribs) 06:39, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- This was objectively a sham election by all reliable accounts apart from the Maduro regime, stop pushing POV. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 11:50, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Do you have any independent sources to back up your entire comment? If not, you yourself are guilty of pushing a pro-Maduro POV. Tube·of·Light 14:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- The BBC is not a reliable source but the Venezuelan regime somehow is PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:56, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Um, hate to be that guy, but countering chauvinism or "chauvinism" with what presents as chauvinism itself isn't helpful. DarkSide830 (talk) 15:05, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Really? The second citation is British.... not American. --RockstoneSend me a message! 05:39, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb with "declared" due to the dispute. Article seems well written and cited. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 05:45, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support the original blurb unless evidence of fraud emerges (which it may, of course) PtolemyXV (talk) 05:48, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb, it’s not just “the west” disputing the results but the opposition themselves. The Kip (contribs) 06:38, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose The proposed blurbs don't adequately convey the phony nature of the process. And the article is in a poor state with a lot of rambling, citations needed and tense errors. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:08, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Repeatedly has been shown tht we're not going to try to call out sham elections or their ilk at ITN. We can use language how we say who won that implies that it was not democratic win, like we have done for the last Russian election, but it becomes a NPOV problem to suggest in the ITN blurb if the election is a sham; that's a topic left for the article in question. — Masem (t) 11:59, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- That's nonsense because numerous editors have supported the alt blurb as a standard signal to the reader that the election was not free and fair. So, we do regularly call out such sham elections in that way but it's too subtle -- we should be more direct rather than dropping hints.
- In any case, there are still the quality issues which are not resolved.
- Andrew🐉(talk) 20:21, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Repeatedly has been shown tht we're not going to try to call out sham elections or their ilk at ITN. We can use language how we say who won that implies that it was not democratic win, like we have done for the last Russian election, but it becomes a NPOV problem to suggest in the ITN blurb if the election is a sham; that's a topic left for the article in question. — Masem (t) 11:59, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose article has two cn tags, two orange tags, one yellow tag and result section is empty. Therefore, it is no way near ready to be posted. I support the Alt Blurb when it is ready to be psoted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality, but support alt when ready. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:25, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose those and any blurb that does not acknowledge the denounces of electoral fraud, which are a relevant news topic in themselves. Cambalachero (talk) 15:26, 29 July 2024 (UTC)- Support ALT3 Cambalachero (talk) 02:20, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support once the article is well ready and meets quality standards. --cyrfaw (talk) 17:59, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Are we sure this is WP:ITN/R? There was no change in administration. Staraction (talk | contribs) 19:50, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- This falls under "The results of general elections in: All states on the list of sovereign states". Howard the Duck (talk) 19:54, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, elections for the executive where there is no change in office are now also ITNR, per this discussion. Gödel2200 (talk) 20:24, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose There are multiple orange tags, and the endorsements section is missing a lot of citations. Will support the alt when ready. Gödel2200 (talk) 20:37, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait The National Electoral Council (Venezuela) has been offline and/or has a DNS problem since at least the last day or so, although some archived snapshots e.g. 28 July are available. As of the 2010s and 2020s, the electoral results coordinated by any national election commission, except for the internet-poorest countries, are normally published in full detail on the commission's website. Whether the reason for the website non-availability is attacks such as DDOS or tech incompetence or a desire to hide the results, the fact is that by the current standards of a national election, the results in the sense of open data are not yet published. There is currently only a "believe-us" XXth century style "result" announced by the CNE so far. The heads of many American states, such as Gabriel Boric, are putting pressure on the CNE to get the full results published. Waiting for a more serious release of the full results would make sense. Boud (talk) 21:05, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait Along the lines of what Boud said, in lay terms, the election result hasn't actually been called, Maduro has just said he's won. The opposition has not conceded, there are no results to show (some apparently have fully gone missing) - the last update from even Maduro's own commission is that vote counts will be coming soon. Kingsif (talk) 21:12, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose For now, as the results themselves are still unavailable in the article. Granted, the results aren't gonna be super shocking. Dyaquna (talk) 22:35, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Reliable sources are essentially unanimous in describing the election as neither free or fair. Therefore, Maduro being declared the winner is about as surprising as "water is wet". KlayCax (talk) 00:03, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait There should be something, however it ought to mention the dispute. This is major news.
- Metallurgist (talk) 01:38, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Update of blurb needed: While waiting for the CNE to announce the full results, the 2024 Venezuelan protests (probably not the best name, since there were probably other protests in Venezuela in 2024) are already 11 kb of source text just 5 hours after being created, so should be integrated into the blurb. Things could change fast depending on if/when the CNE publishes the full results or continues to refuse to publish them, so further updates might be needed. Boud (talk) 01:47, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- I agree, and had actually just come here to suggest much the same. —Cryptic 01:54, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Suggest nominating the protests as their own blurb. If the photo can be confirmed as free, it's also really good to go in the box. Kingsif (talk) 02:20, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose because the election is dispute, protests are ongoing, and there are multiple orange tags. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 02:59, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose unless the blurb states clearly that it was rigged and that it sparked massive protests. Plus, the article has certain problems. If these are solved, take this one as a support. --Bedivere (talk) 06:03, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- We don't write personal opinions in Wikivoice, especially on the front page. Also, see 2024 Rwandan general election. Black Kite (talk) 09:19, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb2. That thing with words like "announced" or "declared" in dubious elections simply doesn't work, and I don't think our readers get the difference that a group of editors here wants to convey. Simply use "re-elected" and let the readers visit the article to find out the details. All winners are "announced" or "declared" no matter if the election was free and fair.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:58, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Most readers don't click through to the article. The main page gets about 5 million views daily but the number of readers that click though ITN links is only about 10K -- a tiny fraction. So, most readers will glance at or skim the main page and will just see the headline and the grinning picture of the tyrant/dictator/president-for-life. So, we should make the headline plain and clear if we run one because that's all most readers will see. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:27, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Why do you think that "announced" or "declared" makes it clear that the winner is a dictator or that the election was not free and fair? Why not extend the blurb to say that "X was re-elected in a dubious election"?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:39, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- The result is disputed; for example, see Venezuelan opposition says it has proof its candidate defeated President Maduro in disputed election. In such circumstances of claim and counter-claim, it's not our job to pick a winner. All we might say currently is that there is unrest following a disputed election. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:18, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- I agree that the protests should be the main story now. My point was that the words "announced" or "declared" wouldn't make any difference. If we post that Maduro was "announced winner", we practically accept the announcement of the National Electoral Council, so we practically side with them and pick Maduro as winner. Note that the opposition rejects outright what the National Electoral Council announced as a result of the election.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:19, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- The result is disputed; for example, see Venezuelan opposition says it has proof its candidate defeated President Maduro in disputed election. In such circumstances of claim and counter-claim, it's not our job to pick a winner. All we might say currently is that there is unrest following a disputed election. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:18, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Why do you think that "announced" or "declared" makes it clear that the winner is a dictator or that the election was not free and fair? Why not extend the blurb to say that "X was re-elected in a dubious election"?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:39, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Most readers don't click through to the article. The main page gets about 5 million views daily but the number of readers that click though ITN links is only about 10K -- a tiny fraction. So, most readers will glance at or skim the main page and will just see the headline and the grinning picture of the tyrant/dictator/president-for-life. So, we should make the headline plain and clear if we run one because that's all most readers will see. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:27, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb2 only when ready. We posted the 2024 Rwandan general election using the "re-elected" wording despite that election being even more dubious than this one. Black Kite (talk) 09:17, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. Since the focus is now on protests, I suggest alternative blurb:
- After disputed presidential elections, protests erupt in Venezuela. BilboBeggins (talk) 12:40, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- This is a good blurb, but the article quality for the protests is not there yet. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:07, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- The sources do not currently show which is more notable: the election or the protests, so putting both in bold would be better justified. Boud (talk) 13:15, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with this, but both articles currently are not of sufficient quality. So if one is improved before the other, we could just make that the target to start out. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:11, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- The sources do not currently show which is more notable: the election or the protests, so putting both in bold would be better justified. Boud (talk) 13:15, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- This is a good blurb, but the article quality for the protests is not there yet. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:07, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Well referenced and article fixed now. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 14:27, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb3 Article infobox makes no claim of a winner, lede claims both are self-proclaimed winners. Peter Njeim (talk) 17:41, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb3 so a NPOV stance is mantained and the disputed nature of the election is highlighted. CVDX (talk) 22:03, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose altblurb3, we didn't say that when Trump claimed fraud, or put that into the same blurb. Wait for the protests to unfold further as they CLEARLY have been planned well before the elections took place. And, the article for the protests largely covers only one side. Viva Nicolás (talk) 12:40, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- ALT3 does not take a side on the fraud controversy, only points that they are disputed presidential elections... which they are, and it doesn't take a POV to say so Cambalachero (talk) 15:37, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- The Carter Center is convincing:
- "Carter Center Statement on Venezuela Election" (Press release). Carter Center. 30 July 2024. Retrieved 31 July 2024.
- and the OAS will speak today. Blurb III is best (but both of the Venezuelan articles are in much worse shape than indicted by the tags still on them -- it's very hard to even document all of the cleanup still needed). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:25, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- And this:
- Applebaum, Anne (31 July 2024). "Venezuela's Dictator Can't Even Lie Well". The Atlantic. Retrieved 31 July 2024.
In the hours after the polls closed, much of the international media had refrained from stating the obvious. 'BREAKING:,' the Associated Press tweeted on Monday. 'Venezuela's President Nicolás Maduro is declared the winner in the presidential election amid opposition claims of irregularities.' But by Tuesday morning, it was absolutely clear that the election was not merely irregular or tainted or disputed: The election had been stolen.
- Applebaum, Anne (31 July 2024). "Venezuela's Dictator Can't Even Lie Well". The Atlantic. Retrieved 31 July 2024.
- SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:41, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- We are in a new cold war, and as per Coffeeandcrumbs, the mainstream media of one side will all portray the conflict in a certain way.
- See these two articles from an left-wing American media organisation:
- Macleod, Alan (30 July 2024). "Venezuela: While US politicians call fraud, American election observers endorse results". Mintpress News. Retrieved 31 July 2024.
I spoke to a person who is voting against Maduro, a professional who studied psychology in San Francisco. She was hopeful for change. But what was very significant was that she thought that the electoral process is free and fair. Overall, our impression of going to the various polling places was that people were very welcoming to us international observers, and were very proud to be out there voting for their country."
"People are happy and welcoming tons of foreigners to look and see what they are doing and explain it patiently, with confidence and real enthusiasm for democracy. Actually, I think that one of the reasons that there is so much cynicism in the United States about democracy is that people don't trust the system. And here, part of their enthusiasm is that they have a lot of confidence in their system, that their voice will be heard".
- Macleod, Alan (30 July 2024). "Solidarity from Palestine to Venezuela: Meet the Palestinians observing Venezuela's elections". Mintpress News. Retrieved 31 July 2024. Viva Nicolás (talk) 03:59, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- You should consider installing the unreliable source detector, as it instantly flagged your links as unreliable because Mintpress News is known to publish fabricated information regularly. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | me | talk to me! 04:54, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Well, Mintpress published two articles on their blacklisting on Wikipedia. They and another major leftist news outlet TeleSUR, were blacklisted in 2019-2020 the context of the 2019 Venezuelan presidential crisis. You can read the article if you are curious:
- Macleod, Alan (30 July 2024). "Venezuela: While US politicians call fraud, American election observers endorse results". Mintpress News. Retrieved 31 July 2024.
- Webb, Whitney (30 July 2019). "How a small group of pro-Israel activists blacklisted Mintpress on Wikipedia". Mintpress News. Retrieved 1 August 2024.
- Macleod, Alan (12 June 2020). "Project Venezuela: Right-wing activists push Wikipedia to blacklist Mintpress, other alternative media". Mintpress News. Retrieved 1 August 2024. Viva Nicolás (talk) 05:05, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- First of all, if anything, Wikipedia has a slight pro-left bias (like much of the internet). Second of all, it does not matter if they are a "leftist" news outlet. It matters if they are reliable or not. And the consensus on Wikipedia is that they are unreliable because they have been shown (with proof) to have routinely published fabricated information. Regardless, that is not even a discussion that needs to be had here - you can review the reasons the community decided it is so unreliable as to deserve deprecation at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 268 § RfC: MintPress News if you so wish. If you continue to act that source needs to be considered for anything, much less an irrelevant policy violating commentary about whether the protests are "legitimate" or not, it is not likely to bode well for your continued participation in the topic area/Wikipedia as a whole. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | me | talk to me! 05:13, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Mintpress stands no chance vs. Guardian (which is also left-leaning). BilboBeggins (talk) 06:09, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- And this:
- May I ask who planned the protests? Because they occured suddenly, opposition figures didn't ask for protests, they asked only for verified ballots to make the result of election transparent, because they know what are consequences for them. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:33, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Here it is:
- @Yvangil (July 29, 2024). "Venezuela strongly condemns the interventionist actions and statements of a group of right-wing governments, subservient to Washington and openly aligned with the most sordid ideological tenets of international fascism. These governments are attempting to revive the failed and defeated Lima Group in an effort to undermine the electoral results of the Presidential Elections held on Sunday, July 28, 2024. These elections resulted in the victory of Nicolás Maduro as President of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela for a new Constitutional Term from 2025 to 2031" (Tweet) – via Twitter.
- The defendant providing this statement is enough to cast doubt on that the protests weren't pre-planned from the outside. Viva Nicolás (talk) 03:11, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- So, in one word... WP:FRINGE. Cambalachero (talk) 04:32, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- But the tweet itself and attached to the tweet is an official communique from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Venezuela. Viva Nicolás (talk) 04:42, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- You mean the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that's run by and subject to the whims of Maduro himself? Of course Maduro is going to try to delegitimize the protests regarding his attempt to falsify election results. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | me | talk to me! 05:15, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- But the tweet itself and attached to the tweet is an official communique from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Venezuela. Viva Nicolás (talk) 04:42, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- So, in one word... WP:FRINGE. Cambalachero (talk) 04:32, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- The defendant providing this statement is enough to cast doubt on that the protests weren't pre-planned from the outside. Viva Nicolás (talk) 03:11, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Comment IMO, I think the only thing in the way of this being posted is the flagrant political bias in both articles. I think I would like to work on this ^ - ^ --Viva Nicolás (talk) 04:46, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe, if this has to be posted within a specified timeframe, I would support altblurb4 on the nomination on July 30. Viva Nicolás (talk) 05:29, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- I've added alt4 from that nomination into this nomination. Viva Nicolás (talk) 05:33, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- And remember when the 2019 Bolivian general election was overturned by protests when the opposition alleged they were rigged, but the 2020 Bolivian general election run under the coup regime definitively showed otherwise. Viva Nicolás (talk) 06:13, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- The election article can be formatted like the 2019 Bolivian general election article, while the protests article can be formatted like the 2019 Bolivian protests article. Viva Nicolás (talk) 06:19, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Give me all of tomorrow (AEST), and both articles should be up to standard. Viva Nicolás (talk) 12:01, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Please stop using this page as a forum: MintPress is a deprecated source and Tweets from government officials are not secondary independent sources. You cannot bring "articles up to standard" with this kind of misunderstanding of Wikipedia policy and guideline. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:52, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Give me all of tomorrow (AEST), and both articles should be up to standard. Viva Nicolás (talk) 12:01, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- The election article can be formatted like the 2019 Bolivian general election article, while the protests article can be formatted like the 2019 Bolivian protests article. Viva Nicolás (talk) 06:19, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe, if this has to be posted within a specified timeframe, I would support altblurb4 on the nomination on July 30. Viva Nicolás (talk) 05:29, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb3 if emphasis is changed. The elections article is mostly cleaned up (one cite check orange tag remains, which I can't fix), while the protests article is quite deficient. Altblurb3 works if the emphasis is changed from the protests article to the main article:
- After disputed presidential elections, protests erupt in Venezuela. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:00, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Many sources use the word contested rather than disputed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:32, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb IV looking like this is devolving into civil conflict, at least 11 dead in protests so far. Scu ba (talk) 17:44, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb3 due to the ongoing controversy and protests following the election. Highlighting the disputed nature of the election and the subsequent civil unrest is important to convey the full context to readers. Wilfredor (talk) 23:48, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
- Support ALT3 or ALT4 - articles seem ready for posting now. The Kip (contribs) 18:20, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Should be posted soon, the deadline ends soon. BilboBeggins (talk) 11:46, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
July 28
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July 28, 2024 (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
International relations
Politics and elections
Sports
|
RD: Alma Powell
edit
Article: Alma Powell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:113:A09D:C0B3:2CBF (talk · give credit)
- Updated by TurboChargedChiliPepper (talk · give credit) and Sunshineisles2 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American audiologist. 240F:7A:6253:1:113:A09D:C0B3:2CBF (talk) 06:39, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Needs more citations. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 11:35, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- This stubby wikibio currently has only 189 words of prose. Anything else to write about her? --PFHLai (talk) 12:07, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
RD: Francine Pascal
edit
Article: Francine Pascal (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): People, New York Times
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): People, New York Times
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:113:A09D:C0B3:2CBF (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Nohomersryan (talk · give credit) and Sunshineisles2 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American author and creator of Sweet Valley High series. 240F:7A:6253:1:113:A09D:C0B3:2CBF (talk) 06:18, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Article is orange tagged for expansion and is a bit short. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 11:34, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I've expanded the article out a bit; I don't think there are any unsourced statements anymore, but it's definitely still on the shorter side. I would add that the "sources" section, which seems to awkwardly combine a bibliography and a reference list, does not seem appropriate for the article in its current form and the bibliography side of it is basically unsourced, as it has no ISBNs or anything of the like.--Sunshineisles2 (talk) 14:23, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Some ISBNs, etc. have started to show up, but the "Sources" section could use more tidying up. --PFHLai (talk) 15:29, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
RD: Doug Creek
edit
Article: Doug Creek (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Americano Sports
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Americano Sports
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:7072:B26A:4473:10DD (talk · give credit)
- Updated by GhostRiver (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American baseball player. 240F:7A:6253:1:7072:B26A:4473:10DD (talk) 06:56, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose article has only three sources, needs more citations. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:16, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Multiple footnote-free paragraphs. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 12:05, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Reyes Moronta
edit
Article: Reyes Moronta (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [5]
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [5]
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Muboshgu (talk · give credit)
- Updated by GhostRiver (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
– Muboshgu (talk) 04:19, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support article is in a good shape. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:17, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article is good enough for RD. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 16:53, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 01:26, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) 2024 All-Ireland Senior Football Championship final
edit
Article: 2024 All-Ireland Senior Football Championship final (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: In Gaelic football, the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship concludes with Armagh defeating Galway in the final. (Post)
News source(s): (The Irish Times)
Credits:
Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Blurb: In Gaelic football, the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship concludes with Armagh defeating Galway in the final. (Post)
News source(s): (The Irish Times)
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Goevenonme (talk · give credit)
- Created by Sheila1988 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Edl-irishboy (talk · give credit), INgIEroC (talk · give credit), Warrioruzi 7 (talk · give credit) and Jacinta Fraser (talk · give credit)
Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Goevenonme (talk) 00:40, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - Well-written and in-depth article, don’t see any issues. The Kip (contribs) 03:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support article looks good enough to be posted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:18, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - good article, significant sporting event. IrishRealistic (talk) 18:34, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support The article has a good amount of prose about the final. Gödel2200 (talk) 20:44, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. Black Kite (talk) 08:08, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: John Anderson
edit
Article: John Anderson (television personality) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by The C of E (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
UK Gladiators referee and British Olympic coach. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 21:32, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support meets bare minimum requirement. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:19, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak support DoB is cn tagged and also the infobox includes his spouses but it isn't anywhere in the prose nor is it sourced, so that info should be added to prose and sourced or excised from the infobox. Otherwise article looks fine. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 16:51, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Cited DOB and birthplace. Curbon7 (talk) 01:15, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- I've also cleared or cited any new CN tags. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 16:27, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 01:26, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
RD: Prince Michael of Greece and Denmark
edit
Article: Prince Michael of Greece and Denmark (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky News, The Independent, and others.
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky News, The Independent, and others.
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Therealscorp1an (talk · give credit)
- Updated by 2a02:587:cc2b:5b00:5043:807d:3ff5:97ca (talk · give credit) and Azarctic (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
He was a member of the former Greek royal family, a writer, a historian, a first cousin of Prince Philip and the last surviving great-grandson of Christian IX. - Therealscorp1an (talk) 22:44, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support I have added a cite for the CN tags so it should be all ready to go now. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 05:51, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait List of works section needs more sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:21, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- The List of works section has remained largely unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 01:12, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- @PrinceofPunjab @PFHLai Fixed. Please, take a look. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:31, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- There are now a few new {cn} tags for the names and birthdates of his kids and grandkids in the Marriage and issue section. --PFHLai (talk) 21:03, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Additionally, the intro mentions that he was "a contributing writer to Architectural Digest." This should be elaborated in the main prose with references. --PFHLai (talk) 21:13, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- @PrinceofPunjab @PFHLai Fixed. Please, take a look. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:31, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
July 27
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July 27, 2024 (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Arts and culture
Disasters and accidents
Health and environment
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Sports
|
(Posted) RD: Murray Costello
edit
Article: Murray Costello (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hockey Canada NHL.com
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hockey Canada NHL.com
Credits:
- Nominated by MonarchOfTerror (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Flibirigit (talk · give credit) and Rford77 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Canadian ice hockey player, executive, and administrator. Article looks fine. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 17:53, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, article is good quality
- Personisinsterest (talk) 15:52, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted—Bagumba (talk) 19:54, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Edna O'Brien
edit.jpg)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Irish Times
Credits:
- Nominated by Mooonswimmer (talk · give credit)
- Updated by JackofOz (talk · give credit), Moscow Mule (talk · give credit) and Laterthanyouthink (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Appears to be well-sourced. Mooonswimmer 18:34, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Looks to be of sufficient quality. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 21:05, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ready it is of great quality, marking it ready. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:23, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support what the others said. I think the quality is at least as as good as all the others currently listed (and better than some actually). It has also more references than all but one of the others - Alexander Waugh (27), John Mayall (54), Jerzy Artysz (8), Eugene Sârbu (18), Randy Kehler (11), Wolfgang Rihm (45) Edna O'Brien (48, at the time of writing). It would be great to post that picture of her too. Sad to think that "the most gifted woman now writing in English" is no longer doing so. --Goevenonme (talk) 13:33, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment All the currently listed deaths are men. There have also been a lot of recent pictures posted of men. This includes here (currently), Biden (who was there for three days apparently), Nguyễn Phú Trọng (here), K. P. Sharma Oli (here), Paul Kagame (here), Trump (here), Masoud Pezeshkian (here), Keir Starmer (here)... that is much, much worse than I thought when I started to write this sentence, so I've stopped looking for any more - systemic bias towards male political leaders at play here? --Goevenonme (talk) 13:36, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Most of the photos that you mentioned were for political leaders where the nomination fell under ITNR (though the ones for Biden and Trump were not), so it is not at all surprising that they were featured. And all of them were for blurbs, so by virtue of them being blurbed, of course their picture will be featured. Unless you can show that female leaders are being deliberately left out of ITN, the claim that this has anything to do with systemic bias is completely unfounded. Gödel2200 (talk) 17:11, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support + photo per WP:BIAS and Goevenonme. ——Serial Number 54129 13:49, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
Majdal Shams attack
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Article: Majdal Shams attack (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: A rocket attack allegedly launched by Hezbollah on the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights kills at least 14 civilians. (Post)
News source(s): BBCTimes of IsraelHindustan TimesPress TV IranReutersRussia TodayAl Jazeera
Credits:
Article updated
Blurb: A rocket attack allegedly launched by Hezbollah on the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights kills at least 14 civilians. (Post)
News source(s): BBCTimes of IsraelHindustan TimesPress TV IranReutersRussia TodayAl Jazeera
Credits:
- Nominated by 104.171.53.110 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Current official death toll is at 12 as of time of writing. Although the scale of this attack is dwarfed daily by IDF bombardments of Gaza, I propose that we cover this particular story because:
- It is the single deadliest attack on Israeli civilians since October 7.[6]
- It is the single deadliest spillover incident of the war since inception.
- The attack was carried out in the context of a conflict with Hezbollah, which would make it separate from the Israel-Gaza war itself.
- Attacks by other regional entities (Iran, the Houthis, and Hezbollah itself) have not previously resulted in this number of casualties during the conflict.
- The article is expanded, well-written, and of a suitable length, with no citation needed tags.
For the above reasons, I hereby nominate this entry.
- Support as nom. 104.171.53.110 (talk) 08:55, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose for now. This is covered by ongoing, or should be, because it’s part of a wave of attacks against Israel by Iranian proxies, and the ensuing counterattacks by Israel. Jehochman Talk 09:44, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose, covered by ongoing as direct spillover of the war. Also, if we specifically post attacks killing Israeli civilians but not those killing Palestinian civilians, we'll be having a pretty big NPOV issue on the main page. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 10:39, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait - Posting this may be a problem as pointed out above, as it naturally invites comparisons to civilian casualties in Gaza (though this could be considered more notable as there are less Israeli civilian deaths, it's still a POV problem). I think it's best to wait to see what the Israeli response is; if this escalates the conflict with Hezbollah it's definitely enough to post, but until then Oppose PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:37, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose This is covered by ongoing unless Israel responds in a major way. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:00, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not really. If it were a strike by the Palestinians, sure, but this was a strike by Hezbollah. This incident falls under the Israel-Hezbollah war, which is not in the Ongoing section. Bremps... 16:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per above (covered in ongoing), but particularly in light of what Chaotic Enby has said about the neutrality here. --Masem (t) 13:08, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose as covered by the war, but also recommend speedy close due to WP:ECR. IPs aren’t allowed to nominate things like this. The Kip (contribs) 16:54, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- @ScottishFinnishRadish, pinging for your opinion re: ECR closing here. The Kip (contribs) 22:56, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, this isn't an edit request, it's a submission to an internal process. At this point we're past closing, though. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:05, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- @ScottishFinnishRadish, pinging for your opinion re: ECR closing here. The Kip (contribs) 22:56, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- In general I would support this, along with routine killings of civilians in Gaza. Both are significant and should be posted whether or not we have the ongoing Israel-Hamas war.VR (Please ping on reply) 20:35, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose covered by ongoing. Also, Victims section is sort of unorthodox on Wikipedia and I think fails WP:MOS. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:25, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Wolfgang Rihm
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Article: Wolfgang Rihm (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Yahoo
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Yahoo
Credits:
- Nominated by Natg 19 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Grimes2 (talk · give credit) and Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Needs work, maybe the "works" section could be split out? Natg 19 (talk) 23:57, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
Done Grimes2 (talk) 08:04, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- No, we don't move content out so that it doesn't have to be referenced. Stephen 11:59, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- But the reference to the publisher of Rihm's works includes the works. Grimes2 (talk) 12:47, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Bibliographies, lists of compositions, albums, etc. are common in biography articles. voorts (talk/contributions) 17:06, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Whoops, I didn't realize that there was a reference at first. But either way, the article looks cleaner with it moved out, as the list of 500 works does make the article unwieldy. Natg 19 (talk) 17:24, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, that's an appropriate WP:WHENSPLIT. Ed [talk] [OMT] 03:44, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Whoops, I didn't realize that there was a reference at first. But either way, the article looks cleaner with it moved out, as the list of 500 works does make the article unwieldy. Natg 19 (talk) 17:24, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article ok and well sourced. Grimes2 (talk) 14:10, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article looks fine. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 16:46, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: I just started updating, and am too tired for more today. Had to work on last-minute violinist who needs attention today, look for Dahn who updated. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:48, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, nice work you two. I'm considering trying to take this article to GA over the next few weeks... although many of the many bios are hard to access, it seems. – Aza24 (talk) 01:21, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 12:38, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
July 26
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July 26, 2024 (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
International relations
Law and crime
Sports
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RD: Lionel Elika Fatupaito
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Article: Lionel Elika Fatupaito (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Post, New Strait Times, CBS News, ESPN, Daily Mail, The New York Times, The Independent, The Times of India
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Post, New Strait Times, CBS News, ESPN, Daily Mail, The New York Times, The Independent, The Times of India
Credits:
- Nominated by KjjjKjjj (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
- Oppose - article created today, and as I cannot find any sourcing on him apart from the reports of his death, I have sent the article to AfD. Black Kite (talk) 14:04, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Most of the 110 words of this stubby wikibio are about his death. Just one sentence on his career. Time is running out soon. This is not a viable candidate for MainPage. --PFHLai (talk) 01:09, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
RD: Janet Andrewartha
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Article: Janet Andrewartha (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [7], [8]
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [7], [8]
Credits:
- Nominated by Happily888 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by HungryReptile (talk · give credit) and Mohamad Darilin (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Happily888 (talk) 07:44, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Filmography is mostly unsourced, and the source for the stage section doesn't cover everything listed there. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 20:52, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose unsourced Filmography. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:26, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Filmography has remained unsourced. Time is running out for this nom. --PFHLai (talk) 01:11, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
2024 France railway arson attacks
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Article: 2024 France railway arson attacks (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: A series of arson attacks damages several lines of the French high-speed railway system. (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:
Blurb: A series of arson attacks damages several lines of the French high-speed railway system. (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:
- Updated by WikiCamael (talk · give credit) and ElijahPepe (talk · give credit)
- Support - I think it's best to have this as a separate blurb as the attacks haven't been linked to the Olympics (though they likely were related). In the news PrecariousWorlds (talk) 21:04, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality - nowhere near long enough, and half the content are reactions that either can be better integrated into a response (eg the transportation head talking about delays) or are just "hopes and prayers"-type nonsense we shouldn't include. --Masem (t) 21:49, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose independently, neutral combined — No fatal consequences, though this is clearly significant. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 22:08, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support notable terrorist (?) attack This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 22:09, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose as these attacks only damaged several lines of the railway system without any casualties or severe disruptions. I'm strongly against combining this with the opening ceremony as it had low impact on that event.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:12, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per Kiril. Article is also quite short. The Kip (contribs) 22:28, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- For those of you, such as @Masem saying "but the article is short"...is it complete though? pbp 23:17, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- If the article is complete in its current state, then it simply isn't enough for the front page. The Kip (contribs) 23:36, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- To me, it looks comparable to the example new article shown at WP:ITNUPDATE, or at worst very close to enough. —Cryptic 00:08, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- That incident also killed almost 20 people, and injured over 70. Not sure if it’d get posted today anyways - keep in mind standards were a bit more lax a decade ago. The Kip (contribs) 02:05, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'd thought it was an article quality argument I was countering. I agree there's a wider difference in significance. —Cryptic 19:19, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- That incident also killed almost 20 people, and injured over 70. Not sure if it’d get posted today anyways - keep in mind standards were a bit more lax a decade ago. The Kip (contribs) 02:05, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- To me, it looks comparable to the example new article shown at WP:ITNUPDATE, or at worst very close to enough. —Cryptic 00:08, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- If the article is complete in its current state, then it simply isn't enough for the front page. The Kip (contribs) 23:36, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- For those of you, such as @Masem saying "but the article is short"...is it complete though? pbp 23:17, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Notable-ish but no one was killed or injured and I don't think it's significant enough to be posted
- Personisinsterest (talk) 22:35, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. There is no reason to be linking to a useless, poorly written article about a few arsons when we have an actual article about the transportation that needs to be expanded. The whole point of Wikipedia is to provide summarized information in context, not to rewrite blow-by-blow accounts of each random thing separately every time you refresh the website of the New York Times. Will switch to support if this is redone as an update to Wikipedia content to reflect current events as ITN posts are supposed to be. And as a side note, it would be great if the closer could disregard any !votes about casualties since that's not a metric of significance on Wikipedia. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 23:03, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- If we're talking disregarding votes, maybe yours should be disregarded because you're using it as a soapbox to complain about the condition of a different article pbp 03:42, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Then you may wish to reread what I said. The only time I mentioned another article was when I suggested a merge target for this one. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 04:19, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- This is not some random accident like a landslide in the boondocks. It's multiple synchronised attacks targeting significant infrastructure of a major nation. It is thus comparable with the attacks on the Nord Stream pipelines or the 9-11 attacks in the US. It seems to have been scheduled for the start of the Olympics but its impact goes beyond that as this is the start of the French holiday season when much of the country plans to travel. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:52, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- If we're talking disregarding votes, maybe yours should be disregarded because you're using it as a soapbox to complain about the condition of a different article pbp 03:42, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
It is thus comparable with the attacks on the Nord Stream pipelines or the 9-11 attacks in the US.
What? An attack with no casualties is comparable to an attack with thousands of casualties that led to the War on terror? Gödel2200 (talk) 12:34, 27 July 2024 (UTC)- If you're referring to Ethiopia when you say "the boondocks", that doesn't make what's happening there insignificant Dyaquna (talk) 15:27, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- The point is that the sabotage was not a "random thing" or Act of God. It was a coordinated attack in multiple locations. As these things go, it's quite unusual for there to be a synchronised attack in so many locations. 9-11 targeted three locations while this attack targeted five. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:24, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support halting services for over 800K people feels quite notable to me. This is quite a large attack, regardless of the lack of casualties. I understand the Crowdstrike incident is on a way grander scale than this will ever be, but as it is still an event that caused a halting on travel systems, we didn't stop that from being posted from a lack of deaths or injuries. CaptainGalaxy 23:04, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose The attack has no casualties, and the article does not indicate that the impact is incredibly severe. In fact, the only 'impact' listed in the impact section was the British PM having to change his plans. Also the article is barely more than a stub. Gödel2200 (talk) 23:52, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support It's a common lead headline today: "Olympics sabotaged ... Hunt for Olympic saboteurs ... Far Left suspected ...". The disruption will continue throughout the weekend and its impact is countrywide -- much greater than some single accident such as the plane crash in Nepal. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:27, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Per Andrew and CaptainGalaxy. Centuries123 (talk) 10:50, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Notable for sure, picked up a lot of coverage initially but doesn't rise to meet many of the secondary principles listed in WP:ITNSIGNIF in my opinion. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:34, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per above. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:27, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per previous comments on article quality Schwinnspeed (talk) 02:11, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
Olympic Opening Ceremony
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Article: 2024 Summer Olympics (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: In Paris, the opening ceremony of the 2024 Summer Olympics begins. (Post)
Alternative blurb: In Paris, the 2024 Summer Olympics open after an arson attack on French railways.
Alternative blurb II: In Paris, the 2024 Summer Olympics open.
Alternative blurb III: In Paris, the 2024 Summer Olympics open.
News source(s): NYT
Credits:
Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Blurb: In Paris, the opening ceremony of the 2024 Summer Olympics begins. (Post)
Alternative blurb: In Paris, the 2024 Summer Olympics open after an arson attack on French railways.
Alternative blurb II: In Paris, the 2024 Summer Olympics open.
Alternative blurb III: In Paris, the 2024 Summer Olympics open.
News source(s): NYT
Credits:
- Nominated by DecafPotato (talk · give credit)
Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Opening ceremony isn't technically done yet, but I figure it's better to get a little ahead now that it's well underway. DecafPotato (talk) 18:16, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support but wait. This is certainly a event to report on, but we should wait until the grammatical errors get resolved. MetaTalks (talk) 20:55, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- its technically "open" after Macron declared it open. MetaTalks (talk) 21:12, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, notable and the articles are fine Personisinsterest (talk) 22:37, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support alternate blurb, if the arson attacks were connected to the Olympics Dyaquna (talk) 23:35, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose I just skimmed a bit of the article and it was nowhere near ready as I immediately noticed several tense and grammatical errors. The article seems to be full of plans which may or may not have actually gone to schedule and it has no reaction or reception section to provide an assessment of what actually happened. Also, as noted below, the news coverage today has focussed on security and sabotage issues such as 2024 France railway arson attack and that seems more interesting. The appalling weather might warrant some attention though. For example,
Unfortunate that the pre filmed parts of this ceremony were done on a bright, clear day. It is making the jumps from live to video sections jarring in person and presumably on TV too. Rain hammering down now. Worried about the athletes! Three hours of this on a roofless boat and some of them are sleeveless. Going to be a shame to cancel the 100m final because the field was decimated by an outbreak of the sniffles.
- I'm still watching and was quite curious about the way they presented "Imagine". I find that we have a remarkably detailed article about piano burning and didn't realise that was a thing. Was that supposed to be the Olympic flame?
- And now there's a ghostly horse rider. Curiouser and curiouser... Andrew🐉(talk) 18:50, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose I agree with Andrew that to post this without noting the arson attack just prior would be a problem. But that can be fixed in the blurb. However, the opening ceremony article is nowhere close for what we've seen in the past. If we are going to post that arson article, that also needs expansion. Finally, should the quality improvements delay posting the opening ceremony for some time, we still try to go ahead and post the Olympics to ongoing, along with Chronological summary of the 2024 Summer Olympics, but that latter article is mostly unsourced at this point, which is not good either. --Masem (t) 18:47, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Masem and @Andrew Davidson, I've added an alt blurb unbolding the opening ceremony article and adding the arson attack, would that be better? DecafPotato (talk) 19:07, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- No, the event isn't over yet, we've yet to get the reactions and full news coverage and so it's too soon to finalise a blurb. And my objection was to the quality of the article not the blurb. The nominator hasn't made a single edit to the nominated article and so should be disqualified for a false start. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:31, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Masem and @Andrew Davidson, I've added an alt blurb unbolding the opening ceremony article and adding the arson attack, would that be better? DecafPotato (talk) 19:07, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm rather neutral on whether or not the arson needs to be included in the blurb- it's not as if this was a terrorist attack that led to deaths- but either way, the article is in pretty bad shape and is nowhere near ready to be posted. -- Kicking222 (talk) 19:14, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose mentioning the arson. The connection to the Games seems dubious at best. DarkSide830 (talk) 19:35, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support and altblurb2 - proposed new blurb without the arson attack, and without bolding the opening ceremony. This post should be about the start of the Paris Olympics. They've started now. Let's post. Main article is fine. The opening ceremony article can be filled up separately, but is not crucial - nobody participates in the Olympics just for the opening ceremony.Khuft (talk) 20:05, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support alt2 Oppose placing the arson attack in the blurb, as it does not seem to have had any effects on the opening ceremony. Currently the article for the opening ceremony has major sourcing issues, but we can instead link to the overall article for the olympics. Gödel2200 (talk) 20:06, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle, but oppose including the arson attacks in the blurb. The opening ceremony took place without any disruptions caused by those attacks (the rain made bigger problems than the attacks). That event should’ve been relevant had it directly affected this one, which is clearly not the case.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:43, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support ALT2 but oppose on quality. I don't personally believe the arson attacks to be overly significant, and their effects on the games has been minimal outside of transportation delays. All of the said, the Opening Ceremony article is in brutal shape - multiple orange tags and nowhere near enough prose on the events. The Kip (contribs) 22:37, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support ALT2 and put it in ongoing when it reaches the bottom. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 02:37, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- There are quite a few sections of tables that lack a single reference. Stephen 03:55, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- I did actually look at this but saw that there are one or more references for those tables in the prose ahead of them (like with the venue section). It would be better if those sources could be repeated in the table header or otherwise some position closer to the tables to be clear where the info is coming from, but the sourcing is there. — Masem (t) 12:51, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Alt3 Opening article has too many problems so let's just not post it. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:49, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality issues (notwithstanding ITNR). Too many CN tags on it. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 12:53, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- support it is hugely IN THE NEWS. not to mention the controversy over the transgender stuff, but that's an aside. then the chronology can be in the ongoing.Sportsnut24 (talk) 20:23, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, we've listed the Olympics and world cup several times in the past and there's plenty of coverage of it. No reason not to list it Desfuria (talk) 23:31, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- I will note that I have already added the Olympics as an ongoing on a temporary basis (as that article is fine, see the ongoing nom below) while there's still debate on the blurb and the quality of the opening ceremonies (which has always been posted in the past, and has always been of high quality, I don't know why this is not at that point by this case). Should we post a blurb, then the ongoing should be temporarily removed then. --Masem (t) 23:46, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Question What needs doing at 2024 Summer Olympics opening ceremony to make it post-able? Kingsif (talk) 03:35, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- The orange tags need to get resolved. Many statements and sections are missing sources. Natg 19 (talk) 03:44, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- It pains me to say but Oppose. It should be ready by now, but surprisingly isn't. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:28, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Altblurb3 - let's not mention the Opening Ceremony then As it seems we won't be able to solve the issues with the opening ceremony article before this gets stale (and, let's face it, it's Monday now - the opening ceremony was on Friday), why not post just the Summer Olympics article itself? That one seems fine, as it's already featured on Ongoing. Khuft (talk) 15:36, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose, this should've been posted but its too late now Personisinsterest (talk) 15:53, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
July 25
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July 25, 2024 (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
Health and environment
International relations
Law and crime
Science and technology
|
RD: Vikramabahu Karunaratne
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Article: Vikramabahu Karunaratne (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
- Nominated by Titanciwiki (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Sri Lankan politician, activist and scientist. Titanciwikitalk/contrib 0:58, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Weak oppose Some statements in the article lacking a source, also the infobox has the name of his father and mother but it isn't anywhere in the prose. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 20:39, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per MonarchOfTerror. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:29, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Martin Indyk
edit
Article: Martin Indyk (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:
- Nominated by Mooonswimmer (talk · give credit)
- Updated by MonarchOfTerror (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Mooonswimmer 22:10, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose three cn tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:30, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
pertinent to the ongoing news stuff. i dunno if you mention that on these things.Sportsnut24 (talk) 20:25, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose I did some work but article still has 3 cn tags that need fixing. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 20:36, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'd be happy to give a few pointers if you clarify what it is you're confused about. Bremps... 16:52, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
July 24
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July 24, 2024 (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Arts and culture
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
International relations
Law and crime
Science and technology
Sports
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RD: Lewis H. Lapham
edit
Article: Lewis H. Lapham (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:
- Nominated by Thriley (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The editor of Harper's Magazine from 1976 until 1981, and from 1983 until 2006. Founder of Lapham's Quarterly. Death announced 24 July. Thriley (talk) 18:24, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment The first paragraph in the Works section is unsourced. The rest of the article looks okay. --Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 19:17, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Two {cn} tags remaining. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 22:35, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Ray Lawler
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Article: Ray Lawler (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.watoday.com.au/national/victoria/summer-of-the-seventeenth-doll-playwright-ray-lawler-dies-aged-103-20240726-p5jwxw.html
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.watoday.com.au/national/victoria/summer-of-the-seventeenth-doll-playwright-ray-lawler-dies-aged-103-20240726-p5jwxw.html
Credits:
- Nominated by HiLo48 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Australian playright, writer of Summer of the Seventeenth Doll HiLo48 (talk) 09:25, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Works section needs sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 11:31, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) Jasper Fire
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: Jasper wildfire (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: A wildfire destroys the town of Jasper, Alberta, in Jasper National Park. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, The Guardian, CBC, Toronto Star
Credits:
So far, it appears no one has died due to proactive evacuations, and as such this might not meet ITN's death threshold for disasters. However, Jasper is a UNESCO World Heritage Site, and Canada's second-most prestigious national park--this is like Yosemite burning, destroying the park's infrastructure. The article still needs work, and officials still do not know the full extent of the damage. NorthernFalcon (talk) 20:38, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
Blurb: A wildfire destroys the town of Jasper, Alberta, in Jasper National Park. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, The Guardian, CBC, Toronto Star
Credits:
- Nominated by NorthernFalcon (talk · give credit)
- Created by Koopatrev (talk · give credit)
- Support but Wait I would agree with the significance, but the Jasper article barely mentions the wildfires, and the Wildfire article itself is just a stub... (And minor note: Jasper National Part is a UNESCO World Heritage site, not the town of Jasper itself). Khuft (talk) 21:17, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Given the number of fires up and down the whole PNW, it would better to have an overarching article on these rather than focusing on one. — Masem (t) 21:34, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. It wasn't the whole town. Footage shows the entire east side intact. It was maybe 20% of the buildings in the town. 104.171.53.110 (talk) 02:04, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose as per Masem. It would be better to link to an overarching article for fires in North America. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 04:07, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose as per MtPenguinMonster. 66.251.117.188 (talk) 06:10, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per all of the above. This is potentially notable as it has caused mass evacuations, but it's borderline and the standalone article is on shaky grounds. Also note that "death threshold" is just a bludgeon sometimes used to gatekeep the area and shouldn't be given any credibility. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 06:16, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Another summer in the northern hemisphere, another summer of wildfires. So far these are not extraordinary nor have they caused anything that is not unfortunately routine. And the town, as stated above, has not been completely destroyed. _-_Alsor (talk) 06:37, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Albertan here. It was very sad and tragic to hear about the destruction caused by the fire in Jasper. Unfortunately, this is pretty local news and wildfires like this occur every year, and only about a third of the buildings were ruined so its not like the entire town was destroyed. If something like this happened again somewhere more well known like Banff, or if the entire town was decimated, I would support it. Hungry403 (talk) 02:17, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Don't know if I would call this "local news" considering it's even reported in Swedish national news. Yakikaki (talk) 04:36, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Wildfires like this do happen every year, and they haven’t even destroyed the whole town. An overarching article for these types of wildfires would be better. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:C5B3:EA0E:CA4:CDBE (talk) 18:56, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
(Posted) RD: Leo Burke
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Article: Leo Burke (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sescoops
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sescoops
Credits:
- Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Kelisi (talk · give credit) and GaryColemanFan (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated and well sourced. It's a GA article too. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 06:51, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - Well referenced, good article, and part of a good topic. (Disclosure: I was a major contributor to the article during its expansion 15 years ago.) GaryColemanFan (talk) 14:54, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak support - I added two CN tags, but they don’t feel like enough to prevent the article from posting, given they’re both fairly minor claims. The Kip (contribs) 15:11, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support per The Kip. Bremps... 16:45, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 02:42, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Randy Kehler
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Article: Randy Kehler (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Greenfield Recorder
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Greenfield Recorder
Credits:
- Nominated by Thriley (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American pacifist, tax resister, and social justice advocate. Death announced 24 July. Thriley (talk) 21:25, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose I have doubts that this article would even hold up if challenged for deletion given notability, though I know that isn't part of the criteria for RD. Either way the article is a really basic and doesn't establish why this person is any more notable than the other thousands of draft evaders from that era... the article should at least articulate that before it is ready for posting.RachelTensions (talk) 04:16, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posting something likely not needing a Wikipedia article at all on the main page is not a good idea and can probably stand as its own oppose rationale. Bremps... 07:39, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Kehler meets GNG with press going back decades. Thriley (talk) 14:52, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- I’m not sure if I agree - the article and its sources seem to indicate his only real special notability was the squabble with the IRS over taxes, which at least to me falls under WP:BLP1E. The Kip (contribs) 15:08, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- There’s been coverage of him for decades. Plenty of source material exists that could be used to improve the article that isn’t currently used. Thriley (talk) 16:14, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- ...well? As it stands right now the article does nothing to convey why he was anything notable as someone who evaded the draft and didn't pay his taxes. And for that reason it isn't suitable yet even for RD. RachelTensions (talk) 16:34, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- There’s been coverage of him for decades. Plenty of source material exists that could be used to improve the article that isn’t currently used. Thriley (talk) 16:14, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- I’m not sure if I agree - the article and its sources seem to indicate his only real special notability was the squabble with the IRS over taxes, which at least to me falls under WP:BLP1E. The Kip (contribs) 15:08, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Kehler meets GNG with press going back decades. Thriley (talk) 14:52, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment The article has been nominated for deletion, so the RD nom will have to be put on hold until that is resolved. Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:02, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- AfD has been WP:SNOW kept, so discussion may proceed unimpeded. Curbon7 (talk) 01:00, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support once the tag is removed. Nominating a 14 year old BLP for AfD on the occasion of the subject's death seems a least a bit in bad faith. Nevertheless, the voting at this point is a unanimous keep and that is unlikely to change, as the nom is completely baseless. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:56, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support article appears suitable. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 10:23, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. This looks clean enough for use on MainPage, but someone may want to beef up the section on his work on the Nuclear Freeze campaign. --PFHLai (talk) 12:13, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-posting support and I agree with Great CeasarsGhost that the timing of the AfD nomination was dubious at best. Jusdafax (talk) 23:54, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) Typhoon Gaemi
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Blurb: Typhoon Gaemi leaves at least 16 people dead in the Philippines and Taiwan. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Typhoon Gaemi leaves at least 76 people dead.
News source(s): CNN, GMA Integrated News,
Credits:
- Nominated by Moraljaya67 (talk · give credit)
Nominator's comments: The typhoon causes flooding across Metro Manila, Philippines, and has garnered widespread news coverage here in the country.
- Wait I suggest waiting for the typhoon to end to justify the death count.
🍗TheNuggeteer🍗12:39, 25 July 2024 (UTC) - Wait for more information. It looks like Taiwan has suffered a lot just like the Philippines, and this typhoon is currently impacting China as of this writing. This is shaping up to be the most significant typhoon since Doksuri – which ironically is a Korean-contributed name like Gaemi – but its impacts are not yet over. Vida0007 (talk) 15:25, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
Wait Article is too unstable.Bremps... 16:16, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support as the article has stabilized and the human cost is clear. Bremps... 16:54, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait per others. Gaemi is currently impacting China, and the article has yet to detail any China impacts. ArkHyena (talk) 20:28, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support The typhoon has now dissipated, and the article appears to be of decent quality. Gödel2200 (talk) 20:30, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support per Bremps --ZZZ'S 20:45, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 03:16, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
Nepal plane crash
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Article: 2024 Saurya Airlines Bombardier CRJ200 crash (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: A Bombardier CRJ-200 crashes during takeoff at Tribhuvan International Airport in Kathmandu, Nepal, killing eighteen on board (Post)
Alternative blurb: An airplane crash in Nepal kills eighteen on board.
News source(s): (Reuters)
Credits:
Blurb: A Bombardier CRJ-200 crashes during takeoff at Tribhuvan International Airport in Kathmandu, Nepal, killing eighteen on board (Post)
Alternative blurb: An airplane crash in Nepal kills eighteen on board.
News source(s): (Reuters)
Credits:
- Nominated by QalasQalas (talk · give credit)
- Weak support Probably notable enough, but article feels a bit too brief. The Kip (contribs) 19:18, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. No one involved is notable, there's nothing to distinguish this from any other plane crash, and as of today there have been no significant ramifications. Not significant or notable. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 19:34, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- How is an airliner crash not notable? Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 00:41, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- "No one notable" was involved in Malaysian Airlines flights 370 (went missing) and 17 (shot down by Russian-backed forces), that part of your reasoning doesn't work. But I am neutral on this since the crash is getting coverage but it also doesn't seem as notable as the usual blurbed crashes. Tube·of·Light 04:39, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle Jet crashes with a significant number of casualties are quite rare nowadays, so I think this meets the significance threshold. Curbon7 (talk) 22:19, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- They're not that rare in Nepal; this is the sixth fatal crash with a double-figure death toll (and there are six more with a lesser toll) in the last ten years. Black Kite (talk) 02:00, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Black Kite Could you provide a well-articulated and cited argument to support your point? Thanks. QalasQalas (talk) 11:08, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Their point is easily found on wikipedia. Celjski Grad (talk) 11:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you, I was not aware of that context. Curbon7 (talk) 11:57, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Black Kite Could you provide a well-articulated and cited argument to support your point? Thanks. QalasQalas (talk) 11:08, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- They're not that rare in Nepal; this is the sixth fatal crash with a double-figure death toll (and there are six more with a lesser toll) in the last ten years. Black Kite (talk) 02:00, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Airliner crash with multiple fatalities, big coverage Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 01:33, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support but wait Good work on obtaining a free image. Let's see if there are any revelations on why the airplane crashed. Bremps... 06:49, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Unless a notable cause of the crash is established, I do not think this is notable enough. Airplane crashes are relatively common in Nepal. For precedent, see the Nepal Airlines Flight 183 (which had the same number of fatalities as this crash) nomination from 2014, which was not posted. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:12, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Somewhat perplexing calls for a wait until the cause is established. That's not how anything has worked ever, not ITN, not plane crashes. Are we going to keep waiting for the full report to come out in 2026? They've already said they don't know what happened. Why not just straightforward oppose since this is going to be stale way before they are going to say more? Usedtobecool ☎️ 14:34, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- To clarify, what I'm saying is that unless a notable cause of the crash is established, I do not think this should be posted. I have updated my comment to specify this. Gödel2200 (talk) 17:24, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Per Usedtobecool, unless a notable cause of the crash is established, I do not think this is notable enough. Airplane crashes are relatively common in Nepal. For precedent, see the Nepal Airlines Flight 183 (which had the same number of fatalities as this crash) nomination from 2014, which was not posted. Integer123 (talk) 19:20, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- You're opposing per a user who never said they oppose this nomination? Usedtobecool is pointing out how Gödel2200's rationale is nonsensical and does not reflect how ITN works. And you copied Gödel2200's reasoning word-for-word, copying other people's arguments verbatim is not how ITN works, you need to phrase it on your own. Tube·of·Light 04:34, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Needs work The NYT explains The Overlooked Reason That Planes Crash So Often in Nepal. The article says nothing of this systemic corruption. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:59, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) Ongoing: 2024 Summer Olympics
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Article: 2024 Summer Olympics (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC News
Credits:
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC News
Credits:
- Nominated by PrinceofPunjab (talk · give credit)
Nominator's comments: While the games formally opens on the 26th, the events have started in the last few hours. I think we should get it posted by the 26th so that people who search for the games will find it on the main page. PrinceofPunjabTALK 14:42, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Agree with nom that we should try to post it early. Currently the list of non-competitive venues appears to be unsourced. Gödel2200 (talk) 15:07, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support ongoing and initial blurb Article quality seems good enough for an initial post; will only expand from here. Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:08, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support per above. Article seems to already be in fine shape, agree with nom re: events already underway. The Kip (contribs) 17:22, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait for the opening ceremony on Friday, which we will blurb per WP:ITNR#Multi-sport_events. Preliminary rounds in a small subset of sports aren't the story here. Modest Genius talk 17:36, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support posting now. I think it's irrelevant that the Opening Ceremony hasn't happened yet - the games are, in fact, ongoing as of now. DarkSide830 (talk) 17:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait none of these pre opening events will give final medals, it's just events that have multiple rounds that take more time to complete. Post the opening ceremonies and then when that rolls off, add to ongoing. Masem (t) 17:58, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Also whole this will get to ongoing eventually, we will have four (effectively seven) items in it and will overflow to a third line. We should consider a removal such as the Sudan conflict at least while the Olympics are on there, and then read it afterwards, only as a maintenance issue, not for permanent removal. Masem (t) 18:26, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait until the opening ceremony, then it can be posted in ongoing alongside the blurb. Estreyeria (talk) 18:05, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support posting even before the opening ceremony. The chronological summary is perhaps a better target article.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:43, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support ITNR doesn't dictate exactly how we post this, and based on comments above I think it would be acceptable to put the chronological summary into ongoing now, wait to nom/post the opening ceremony on the 26th, and then add the main article to ongoing. And FWIW it's not just preliminary rounds, all of the rugby sevens games except the final will be played before the opening ceremony. Kingsif (talk) 20:26, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I'd actually suggest to run a blurb with the opening ceremony, wait until it rolls off the ITN, and then put it to ongoing. The opening ceremony is a big thing on itself. Provided the article is ok and all that. --Tone 20:57, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- That's what we usually do, right? Kingsif (talk) 22:47, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, that's usual. Stephen 22:50, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- That’s basically a very bad practice. In case there are very few blurbs to post in the next two weeks, this may not get posted onto ongoing at all. So, this should appear in ongoing independently from the blurb on the opening ceremony.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:55, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- If we post the opening blurb and no significant number of blurbs come around to knock it out, we can either prematurely send it to ongoing, or change the blurb away from the opening ceremony to just saying they are ongoing. We want a link to the games in the ITN box for the two weeks the games are officially open, it doesn't matter if it's a blurb or ongoing. Masem (t) 23:06, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not convinced by that reasoning at all. The opening ceremony is one thing and the progress of the Olympics is another thing. That's why we should post a link to the games in the blurb on the opening ceremony and a link to the chronological summary in ongoing. Nothing precludes us from doing this. After all, it's the largest recurrent event in the world. Waiting to post onto ongoing is the biggest misservice that we can offer to our readers who wouldn't have a direct link to the event summary on the main page.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:05, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is still no reason that we cannot figure out a blurb for the opening ceremonies that includes a link to the games proper and perhaps even to the event summary. — Masem (t) 13:31, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not convinced by that reasoning at all. The opening ceremony is one thing and the progress of the Olympics is another thing. That's why we should post a link to the games in the blurb on the opening ceremony and a link to the chronological summary in ongoing. Nothing precludes us from doing this. After all, it's the largest recurrent event in the world. Waiting to post onto ongoing is the biggest misservice that we can offer to our readers who wouldn't have a direct link to the event summary on the main page.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:05, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- If we post the opening blurb and no significant number of blurbs come around to knock it out, we can either prematurely send it to ongoing, or change the blurb away from the opening ceremony to just saying they are ongoing. We want a link to the games in the ITN box for the two weeks the games are officially open, it doesn't matter if it's a blurb or ongoing. Masem (t) 23:06, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- That's what we usually do, right? Kingsif (talk) 22:47, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait until the Opening Ceremony, then it'll be a support. I understand that it technically is going on currently, but still, the opening ceremony is the "beginning" of the Summer Olympics, even if it isn't official. TomMasterRealTALK 23:52, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait per above. The Opening Ceremony is scheduled to be on the 26th, I think we should wait for that first (despite some Olympic events starting earlier). Officially, the Olympics will start tomorrow, surely this proposed ongoing item can be deferred for (at least) 24 hours more before it gets posted to that section. Vida0007 (talk) 15:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Just post Not at the moment I am writing this but the admins might be seeing "wait" as the most recent comment by the time the Games actually starts. Bremps... 16:52, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait There should be a blurb for the opening ceremony first, then it should move to Ongoing. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:54, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Security and Sabotage should be the emphasis of the blurb if we have one as these seem to have been the main focus of the news coverage today. See 2024 France railway arson attack, for example. The opening ceremony seems a damp squib as the ships, shows and spectacles seem rather tiny and insignificant in the setting of the Seine. The weather hasn't helped. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:06, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Opening ceremony looks pretty spectacular on TV, to be honest. Disagree that the arson attack should be the focus of the post - seems to be minor in the grand scheme of Olympic things. Khuft (talk) 20:01, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- To quote an external source: "There's never been a show like this! Opening ceremony is spectacular" (Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung) Khuft (talk) 20:22, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- YMMV. The New York Times lead headlines are currently: Opening Ceremony Floats Down Seine; Paris Investigates Rail Sabotage The ceremony is being held under rainy skies. Earlier, coordinated attacks disrupted high-speed train links to Paris, delaying over a million travelers. The rail sabotage was carefully planned to cause maximum disruption on what was supposed to be a day of glory for France. Andrew🐉(talk) 21:07, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Well, I'm looking forward to Los Angeles topping this in 2028 then. Khuft (talk) 21:25, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- YMMV. The New York Times lead headlines are currently: Opening Ceremony Floats Down Seine; Paris Investigates Rail Sabotage The ceremony is being held under rainy skies. Earlier, coordinated attacks disrupted high-speed train links to Paris, delaying over a million travelers. The rail sabotage was carefully planned to cause maximum disruption on what was supposed to be a day of glory for France. Andrew🐉(talk) 21:07, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- To quote an external source: "There's never been a show like this! Opening ceremony is spectacular" (Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung) Khuft (talk) 20:22, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- FWIW for 2020, it was only placed in Ongoing after the opening blurb had rolled off.—Bagumba (talk) 02:52, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- There were quality concerns regarding the article which had to posted onto ongoing. Anyway, it's a bad practice. Nothing precludes us from linking to the chronological summary from ongoing.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:39, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support ongoing, even if concurrent with a news blurb (which may or may not mention the arson). I don't see a reason why it can't have both at the same time. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 10:20, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Immediate Support. The games have opened with competition already in progress. In fact, the first medals have already been awarded. KyuuA4 (Talk:キュウ) 13:59, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Can we get this posted into ongoing? As the above editor said, the games have already started. It seems like the opening ceremony article is in bad shape, so that may not get posted for a while. Natg 19 (talk) 19:10, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- I have added this article to ongoing, though if the opening ceremony one is improved, then it should be temporarily taken off. However, I have not added the Chronology article at this time as it is in far worse state from a sourcing standpoint (I know it will be filled with results, but the planned events should still be sourced before then). --Masem (t) 19:15, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- I took the time to add the six missing refs (for the pre-opening day summaries) and have added the chronological article as the timeline to the ongoing — Masem (t) 23:02, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- I have added this article to ongoing, though if the opening ceremony one is improved, then it should be temporarily taken off. However, I have not added the Chronology article at this time as it is in far worse state from a sourcing standpoint (I know it will be filled with results, but the planned events should still be sourced before then). --Masem (t) 19:15, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Hamzah Haz
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Article: Hamzah Haz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Media Indonesia Bloomberg CGTN
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Media Indonesia Bloomberg CGTN
Credits:
- Nominated by Tensa Februari (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Mmnashrullah (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Former Vice President, article is good enough. Tensa Februari (talk) 04:01, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Suppport: per Bloomberg CGTN QalasQalas (talk) 09:36, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's not about whether the death is widely covered, it's about whether the article is up to par. Bremps... 16:29, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Multiple uncited sentences, including one that accuses him of being an apologist for terrorism (which I've just removed); poorly written in places. Black Kite (talk) 16:23, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
July 23
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July 23, 2024 (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Health and environment
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
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(Closed) Beijing Declaration
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: 2024 Beijing Declaration (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Fourteen Palestinian factions, including Fatah and Hamas, agree to commit to an independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital. (Post)
News source(s): CNN, AP News, DW, NY Times, BBC, Reuters,
Credits:
Ainty Painty (talk) 04:44, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
Blurb: Fourteen Palestinian factions, including Fatah and Hamas, agree to commit to an independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital. (Post)
News source(s): CNN, AP News, DW, NY Times, BBC, Reuters,
Credits:
- Nominated by Ainty Painty (talk · give credit)
- Created by Johnkatz1972 (talk · give credit)
- Oppose, article is in really poor shape. Will switch to support if it's properly cited and the "reactions" section is condensed down into a proper encyclopedic summary of the main points without indiscriminate trivia. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 06:06, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose There have been so many such accords that we have a category for them: Intra-Palestinian peace efforts. This one seems unlikely to be more successful and has no concrete timetable. The long list of factions makes amusing reading though -- see precedent... Andrew🐉(talk) 08:57, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose It is unclear what will make this agreement more than just an agreement, and actually have real effects. Also, the article is basically a big list of reactions, with a bunch of unsourced statements. What we should post is if the envisioned government actually forms. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:13, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per above. Article is mostly reactions at this point, and this isn't the first time there's been an attempt at a unity government. The Kip (contribs) 22:33, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
(Closed) Hottest day in modern history
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: 2024 in climate change (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: July 21, 2024 is declared the hottest day in the modern era by the Copernicus Climate Change Service, with an average surface air temperature of 17.09 degrees Celsius (62.74 degrees Fahrenheit). (Post)
Alternative blurb: July 21, 2024 is declared the hottest day in the modern era by the Copernicus Climate Change Service, with an average surface air temperature of 17.09 degrees Celsius (62.74 degrees Fahrenheit).
Alternative blurb II: The Copernicus Climate Change Service declares July 21 the hottest day in modern history, with an average surface air temperature of 17.09 degrees Celsius (62.74 degrees Fahrenheit).
News source(s): https://www.reuters.com/world/world-registers-hottest-day-ever-recorded-july-21-monitor-says-2024-07-23/
Credits:
GeorgeMemulous (talk) 22:00, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
Blurb: July 21, 2024 is declared the hottest day in the modern era by the Copernicus Climate Change Service, with an average surface air temperature of 17.09 degrees Celsius (62.74 degrees Fahrenheit). (Post)
Alternative blurb: July 21, 2024 is declared the hottest day in the modern era by the Copernicus Climate Change Service, with an average surface air temperature of 17.09 degrees Celsius (62.74 degrees Fahrenheit).
Alternative blurb II: The Copernicus Climate Change Service declares July 21 the hottest day in modern history, with an average surface air temperature of 17.09 degrees Celsius (62.74 degrees Fahrenheit).
News source(s): https://www.reuters.com/world/world-registers-hottest-day-ever-recorded-july-21-monitor-says-2024-07-23/
Credits:
- Nominated by GeorgeMemulous (talk · give credit)
- Support on notability, oppose on quality. The hottest day in modern history so far! Sadly, it's pretty much a yearly occurrence by now, so I wouldn't be surprised if it gets discussed for ITN/R. Last year's record was mostly supported, although it didn't end up being posted mostly because of quality issues. This time, the article hasn't been updated yet (and isn't linked in the blurb), so that should be done first. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 22:11, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- If this is going to be a yearly occurrence, I would oppose posting for that reason. Hottest day ever is merely trivia. Natg 19 (talk) 23:35, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I don't think any of the three linked articles are suitable for bolding. Bremps... 23:31, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Without action, a record likely to broken within the year, and its not appropriate to keep posting that over and over. Obviously critical for trying to promote the need to fight climate change and the like, but its also along the lines of fearmongering; if we are going to post stories like this, I would rather go for anything that qualifies a much longer period of time (like I'm sure there were stories of 2023 being the hottest year on record). --Masem (t) 00:05, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose — Per Masem. I object to including any climate blurbs because it is a continuous record; Earth is warming every single day, month, and year. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 05:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I get the point that it's a continuous record and climate changes every day, but I'm wondering what kind of news related to climate change we should post. There are tons of news in reliable sources on the topic virtually on a daily basis that we don't post. At the end, if it's really a never-ending ongoing story, just post it there and keep it for good. According to the mainstream science, the estimated global losses as a result of the climate change are many times greater than the effects of the military conflicts currently posted onto ongoing combined. Another option is to put a box on the main page like we did for the COVID-19 pandemic, which would include links to relevant articles related to climate change.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:00, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose – The update to the article is insignificant. I'm honestly hoping that at some point we can feature a climate change-related update like this, but we'd need a few paragraphs talking about why the specific date/week/month is so standout. Combined with a deadly heatwave in many regions I can see this work, for example. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 07:41, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per Masem. This record is likely to be broken again within the year. In addition, the update to the article in question is one line. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 08:04, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Monday, July 22, is now the hottest day on record, surpassing Sunday. CBS News Johndavies837 (talk) 08:42, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- The content's obviously not up to scratch, but I reject the notion we shouldn't post this merely because we expect to have to do it again in a year. That doesn't stop us posting the Superbowl, or the Nobel Prizes, or the Academy Awards every year. Shorter-term increases - as we just saw for the 22nd - are likely to be soon enough that they could be handled with a blurb update. —Cryptic 11:46, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- If we were reporting that 2023 was the hottest year on record, and then the same for 2024, and 2025, that would be less an issue. Single day records however could be more frequent (as Johndavies points out, this story is already outdated) and can also reflect spikes in weather patterns. That's why a long-term average, that normalizes out all such spikes, is far better to be a metric we consider. (Also, those recurring stories are because there are extensive articles that are developed for each occurance, while this is just an update to an existing article) — Masem (t) 12:05, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Single-day records tend to be clustered around July at the peak of northern hemisphere summer (something about having more landmasses and less thermal inertia in the northern hemisphere, I believe?), so they won't tend to happen all throughout the year. The last one was also in July 2023, for that matter. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 12:29, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- But you would also have "hottest <specific date> on record" type of news, like hypothetically an average of 100+ degF worldwide on Jan 21st. Which still can be seen as a potential statistical anomaly. If we are going to post these, the more conclusive story is a record annual average temperature which takes out the spikes and dips. Masem (t) 12:39, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Single-day records tend to be clustered around July at the peak of northern hemisphere summer (something about having more landmasses and less thermal inertia in the northern hemisphere, I believe?), so they won't tend to happen all throughout the year. The last one was also in July 2023, for that matter. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 12:29, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per Masem. Estreyeria (talk) 13:50, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- If we were reporting that 2023 was the hottest year on record, and then the same for 2024, and 2025, that would be less an issue. Single day records however could be more frequent (as Johndavies points out, this story is already outdated) and can also reflect spikes in weather patterns. That's why a long-term average, that normalizes out all such spikes, is far better to be a metric we consider. (Also, those recurring stories are because there are extensive articles that are developed for each occurance, while this is just an update to an existing article) — Masem (t) 12:05, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose As others have said, this record will likely not stand for long, and the article does not have a large enough update. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose as the record has already been broken (the very next day). Source: https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/world-breaks-hottest-day-record-second-day-row-2024-07-24/ Jiaminglimjm (talk) 14:52, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose I believe it'd be notable if it ever goes in the other direction (down). Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:05, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. Climate change is an important topic, but the real issue is the trend, not single-day records. We've posted the IPCC reports as important studies of the changing climate, which I agreed with. Record days / weeks / months are by their very nature outliers and with the overall heating trend they'll be repeatedly broken. I don't think ITN should be posting numerous blurbs saying essentially the same thing. There could maybe be a case for hottest year, because that would enforce at least 12 months between blurbs, which is more manageable. But even then, I find it difficult to imagine what the article updates might be. Other than stating the record, what more can be said? Modest Genius talk 15:07, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
July 22
edit|
July 22, 2024 (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Sports |
(Posted) RD: Eugene Sârbu
edit
Article: Eugene Sârbu (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Strad
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Strad
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Dahn (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Romanian violinist who made an international career. We expanded and found sources. Sorry for being late to nominate, but it took some time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:42, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. The article looks OK now. The subject had an international music career, won prizes, premiered new works, and made recordings. Deserves a mention. Storye book (talk) 10:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, with exception to the time limit if necessary, as we should reward the work that went into improving the project. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:59, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support article looks good. It seems difficult to find a reliable source that mentions his date of birth... _-_Alsor (talk) 16:24, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you, all. I couldn't find a ref for the exact date. It's mentioned in WorldCat, but that's probably not a reliable source. I can't see Grove. Commented out until we find a ref. Dahn, what do you see. in sources? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:44, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sourced. Dahn (talk) 20:07, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you, all. I couldn't find a ref for the exact date. It's mentioned in WorldCat, but that's probably not a reliable source. I can't see Grove. Commented out until we find a ref. Dahn, what do you see. in sources? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:44, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 22:31, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Jerzy Artysz
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Article: Jerzy Artysz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Polskie Radio, Polish Radio
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Polskie Radio, Polish Radio
Credits:
- Created and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Polish baritone who performed all the great roles from early to world premieres in Warsaw, and toured the world, and taught in Barcelone and Warsaw, but all this long ago, therefore not much left on the internet. I translated the article from the German Wikipedia and expanded. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:11, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Looks good for RD. --Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 19:15, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 12:52, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
(Re-closed) Kamala Harris nomination
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
.jpg)
Blurb: U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris becomes the new presumptive candidate for the Democratic Party in the 2024 presidential election (Post)
News source(s): ABC news CNN
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Raladic (talk · give credit)
Article updated
- Oppose Biden's resignation from the race was big news... this is not. Noah, BSBATalk 15:40, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose And why Kamala and not Trump? And why Kamala and Trump and not all the candidates making campaigns for the 2024 US election? And why not do the same with all candidates on presidential campaigns elsewhere? Better keep the can of worms closed, and just post the results when the elections are over. Cambalachero (talk) 15:48, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose the posting of Bidens withdrawal was absolutely extraordinary and imo shouldn't have been posted. US bias all over. This is obviously too much. No. Just no. Bedivere (talk) 16:00, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Add to the Biden blurb now that he has endorsed her candidacy and she now inherits their joint ticket. Note also that Harris's article is getting way more readers than Biden, Trump or the Olympics and so it's clear that her candidacy is major news and that readers are keen to find out more about her specifically. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:29, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- No, seriously no. _-_Alsor (talk) 12:57, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose What was notable for ITN was the historic nature of Biden withdrawing, not Harris being endorsed (and, as the proposed blurb says, she is only the presumptive nominee), so this should neither have a blurb nor be combined into the Biden blurb. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:59, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. We should never have posted the Biden story in the first place, which happened in a rush overnight (while the US was awake) and closed before many users had a chance to comment. ITN should post the results of elections, not wrangling over who the candidates will be. I don't think we should compound the error by adding various updates to that blurb. Besides, Harris hasn't even been officially selected yet. Modest Genius talk 13:31, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per everything above. We don't need to post every detail of the US election campaign. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 14:06, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
(Posted) RD: Elena Mauti Nunziata
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Article: Elena Mauti Nunziata (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Forum Opera
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Forum Opera
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Soprano who appeared on the great stages of the world in beloved roles (La traviata, in La bohème ...) and some unknown ones, most active in the 1970s. The article was there but was stubbish and tagged for few references. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:46, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Informative article in good shape. Grimes2 (talk) 13:13, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 17:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: John Mayall
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Article: John Mayall (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP via Billboard
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP via Billboard
Credits:
- Nominated by Rawmustard (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Influential blues musician. Several lines do need citations, but they should be fixable. rawmustard (talk) 01:37, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Uncited statements. Bremps... 16:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Looks fine and he was quite a cult figure in his day. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:55, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Large sections are uncited. Black Kite (talk) 08:06, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support I have added references where I can, the article is now ready to be posted. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 12:11, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 12:18, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Alexander Waugh
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Article: Alexander Waugh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Telegraph obit
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Telegraph obit
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Eric (talk · give credit)
- Created by Awaugh (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Eric talk 23:38, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Does anyone have REFs for Waugh's education? --PFHLai (talk) 17:02, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support I've added refs for his education. --Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 19:14, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 02:36, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) Gofa landslides
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Article: 2024 Gofa landslides (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: At least 257 people die as a result of landslides in Geze Gofa, Ethiopia. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Landslides in Geze Gofa, Ethiopia kill at least 257 people.
Alternative blurb II: The deadliest landslides in Ethiopian history kill at least 257 in Geze Gofa.
News source(s): https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2024/07/23/death-toll-from-ethiopia-landslides-rises-to-229
Credits:
Blurb: At least 257 people die as a result of landslides in Geze Gofa, Ethiopia. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Landslides in Geze Gofa, Ethiopia kill at least 257 people.
Alternative blurb II: The deadliest landslides in Ethiopian history kill at least 257 in Geze Gofa.
News source(s): https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2024/07/23/death-toll-from-ethiopia-landslides-rises-to-229
Credits:
- Nominated by Bremps (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Quake1234 (talk · give credit) and Borgenland (talk · give credit)
Article is a bit barebones, but I have no doubt that the deadliest landslide in Ethiopian history (with over 200 dead) is notable. I'd say post after improvements are made to the article. Bremps... 19:18, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose on quality - article is still virtually a stub.The Kip (contribs) 19:50, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - Article's been expanded just enough for the front page. Two CNs should be easy enough to clean up. The Kip (contribs) 19:15, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability, oppose on quality. Disastrous event and certainly notable, but article should be expanded before posting. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 22:12, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Article has been improved since, quality is definitely enough. Should be ready to post. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 23:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Unfortunately, this is unlikely to see much possible expansion - an unexpected landslide happened, hundreds die but it happened in a third-world country that media tend to ignore (it suffers from the "if a tree falls in a forest" syndrome). Even the Reuters article is about as short as I've ever seen one. Clearly notable if expanded. --Masem (t) 00:09, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability. Article has since been expanded and is notable enough to be on the front page, with this being the deadliest landslide in modern Ethiopian history. User:Sailingsmooth5 (talk · contribs) 7:23, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability
The article has two cn's,but appears to be just long enough to get posted. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:07, 24 July 2024 (UTC) - Support. Major effect as record-setting landslides in the country with two villages essentially removed from the map. Article is expanded and well-cited enough to be somewhat useful. Would be even better if someone were to remove the pointless "response" section. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 19:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm agnostic; I added it there to pad length to get it posted when it was a stub. Information on rescue efforts is definitely needed, but maybe expressions of sorrow can be removed. Bremps... 19:40, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support It’s notable enough & the article’s quality is good enough now. Alt1 is probably the best blurb. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 22:39, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Admins willing to post ITN: I think we can post this now. Bremps... 04:46, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Why hasn't this been posted?Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 12:43, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 14:52, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Mark Carnevale
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Article: Mark Carnevale (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC Sports, CBS News
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC Sports, CBS News
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:469:7779:58A7:91C5 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by DarkStarHarry (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American professional golfer and broadcaster. 240F:7A:6253:1:469:7779:58A7:91C5 (talk) 15:47, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose A bit short of an article. Bremps... 20:39, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- With only 184 words of prose, this wikibio is too stubby for ITN. Please beef it up to at least Start-class. --PFHLai (talk) 15:05, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Duke Fakir
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Article: Duke Fakir (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:
- Nominated by Staraction (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Member of the Four Tops, an American voice quartet from the '60s. Staraction (talk | contribs) 02:32, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Page looks alright for RD. R.I.P. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 10:34, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support – Article looks fine, everything is properly cited. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:17, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Ok. Grimes2 (talk) 14:36, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support article quality is fine. Let's just post. Bremps... 07:36, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Kenneth Grange
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Article: Kenneth Grange (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times, Rail Advent, Telegraph
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times, Rail Advent, Telegraph
Credits:
- Nominated by Yorkshiresky (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Whizz40 (talk · give credit) and DoctorWhoEditor2 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
. British industrial designer. yorkshiresky (talk) 20:15, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not Ready. Several parts in the "Life and career" section are unsourced. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 02:35, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support looks well referenced now.yorkshiresky (talk) 06:23, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Blurb Quite transformational, lacks name recognition and so an RD entry will not suffice. Andrew🐉(talk) 20:40, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support article looks good now. RD is sufficient. _-_Alsor (talk) 06:39, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. I removed one small sentence with a cn tag which I struggled to find a source for - it was not an important one. Black Kite (talk) 08:02, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: James C. Scott
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Article: James C. Scott (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ArtReview
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ArtReview
Credits:
- Nominated by Thriley (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Death announced 22 July. Thriley (talk) 18:45, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support article looks good to me. PrinceofPunjabTALK 18:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, as it's a well-sourced article about a notable anthropologist. He was one of my favorite authors, particularly Against the Grain: A Deep History of the Earliest States, and I'm sad to learn he died. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 23:28, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Article structure looks good enough. Seems ready to go. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 02:31, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted – Schwede66 05:48, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
July 21
edit(Posted) RD: Henry J. Nowak
edit
Article: Henry J. Nowak (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC News
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC News
Credits:
- Nominated by Curbon7 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Yoshi876 (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Former congressman from western NY. Quite short. Curbon7 (talk) 22:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support His career in the Congress could be expanded, though the article itself looks okay. --Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 13:14, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not ready I placed three
citation neededtags. Schwede66 05:43, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support CN tags seem to be removed. Bremps... 16:17, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 00:01, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) 2024 anti-tourism protests in Spain
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: 2024 anti-tourism protests in Spain (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: In Palma de Mallorca, more than 20,000 people protest against overtourism. (Post)
News source(s): France 24, Reuters
Credits:
Article updated
240F:7A:6253:1:4815:37F9:365D:115D (talk) 05:03, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
Blurb: In Palma de Mallorca, more than 20,000 people protest against overtourism. (Post)
News source(s): France 24, Reuters
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:4815:37F9:365D:115D (talk · give credit)
- Created by Kingsif (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Kingsif (talk · give credit) and Ltbdl (talk · give credit)
Article updated
- Note that the 21 July protests are currently still described in the future-tense. I see potential here, however. Overall the article looks good and would be a fine feature. This is probably a natural peak for the protests this year? ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:24, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - Interesting item, In The News, article is relatively good. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:47, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Leaning support if we agree to include purely domestic news, let's be congruent and always do so. For this reason, this news is ITN-worthy, as these are protests that have taken place in large Spanish cities, in relation to a basic economic sector of the Spanish economy and with international repercussions (and even concern: cruise companies that want to avoid boarding in Barcelona or Mallorca, etc.). Article may need some work. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support notability nice article but could really do with an infobox. Abcmaxx (talk)
- Oppose the larger archipelago protests were in April and May, and this is late July. The recent protest of 20,000 out of a population of about 1 million in a nation of 50 million is just... not particularly major? A sense check in Reuters does not give me any news articles in the main page - the only one about Spain in there is about the corruption investigation. Juxlos (talk) 10:35, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not saying you didn't do that search, and I don't have an opinion on if this gets posted (though I nominated it for DYK before it was put here, to give you an indication), but Reuters posted this two hours before your !vote. A search for "Palma protests" should bring up today's coverage. Kingsif (talk) 11:20, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Currently, there are only two paragraphs in the article about protests occuring in July. The first one only says "In July 2024", so it may be that that protest is stale. The second paragraph describes a protest happening on 21 July, but the only effects of the protests seem to be "plans to raise the tourist tax on cruise ship visitors to the city staying less than 12 hours," which hardly seems significant enough for ITN. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:26, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- The first protests were the first week of July, they're stale. Of course, the article's 10 paragraphs total, how much more would you have written about one protest without going into NOTNEWS territory? Kingsif (talk) 13:17, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- What I'm saying is that if the protests were significant enough for ITN, then there would simply be more to write about them, particularly in regards to the effects of the protests. Currently the effects do not seem that significant. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:36, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh yeah, totally agree. In terms of any article expansion suggestions, though, please make them Kingsif (talk) 20:40, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- What I'm saying is that if the protests were significant enough for ITN, then there would simply be more to write about them, particularly in regards to the effects of the protests. Currently the effects do not seem that significant. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:36, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. Not a particularly large or impactful protest. Just last week there were more substantial protests in protests in Bangladesh, and last month protestors stormed Kenya's parliament. Both have caused numerous deaths and changes in government policy, while attracting substantial international coverage. In contrast, the protests in the Canary Islands have been small, peaceful, and generally local news. Also, the Reuters article linked to above says there were about 10,000 protestors, not the 'more than 20,000' claimed in the blurb. Modest Genius talk 13:59, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose whilst there have been some interesting articles about the protests e.g. BBC, the impact of these protest isn't enough to meet WP:ITNSIGNIF. Right now there are a few thousand protesters and the impact of the protests looks to be low i.e. it's not currently causing a substantial change to anything. If the scale or impact changes in future, then and only then might this meet ITNSIGNIF threshold. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:03, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per WP:ITNSIGNIF as it's Unclear on what the significance of this is other than a few protest rallies and some tourists being assaulted with squirt guns. Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:58, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose there seems to be no long term effects of this protest. PrinceofPunjabTALK 18:46, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per others. ArkHyena (talk) 19:25, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
(Posted) 2024 Tour de France
edit.jpg)
Blurb: In cycling, Tadej Pogačar wins the Tour de France. (Post)
Alternative blurb: In the Tour de France, Tadej Pogačar wins the General Classification and Mark Cavendish breaks the record for stage wins.
News source(s): CNN
Credits:
- Nominated by Gödel2200 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Paul W (talk · give credit) and SashiRolls (talk · give credit)
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
The article will need a significant amount of more prose before posting. Gödel2200 (talk) 19:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability, wait on quality. BilledMammal (talk) 19:59, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Added altblurb. There was support when Cavendish broke the record that it was more suitable to be included at the race conclusion rather as a standalone entry.yorkshiresky (talk) 20:09, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Alt blurb per previous discussion INTC. Kcmastrpc (talk) 20:11, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose literally no text about the race in the race article. Needs a thorough rewrite and a lot of race summary added. Joseph2302 (talk) 20:52, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I left a message about missing prose on the article's talk page some five hours ago but all that's been expanded thus far is the lead... Schwede66 05:44, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. The race win is ITN/R, so post when quality is ready... but absolutely oppose mention of Cavendish. There was no consensus for it when it happened last week and there's no justification for posting it now. If it were to he posted, it should have been when it was in the news, and I and many others opposed it at that time. Certain nobody is talking about that now and while impressive, it's just one of many records that can be set. — Amakuru (talk) 21:26, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. Nothing about the race except tables. --Bcp67 (talk) 21:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- old comment, no longer accurate -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 18:48, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. I think someone should make a full summary of the race before we can post this to ITN. WL Pro for life (talk) 04:16, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Altblurb. Breaking a 49-year record is worthy of mention. Paul W (talk) 10:06, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Paul W, you’ve added so much unsourced text to the lead that I placed an orange maintenance tag on the article. You haven’t placed a single word of prose in the body. For someone who has written GAs, I really have to wonder how you could possibly vote “support” here. Just in case it needs spelling out, your work on the article is putting it further away from it being ready. Schwede66 20:14, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- I was hoping to stimulate others to expand the article. Work pressures mean I currently have little time to expand it myself. Paul W (talk) 09:27, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- I have now expanded the prose section in the main body to complete its summary coverage all the Tour stages. It now has a similar level of coverage to the 2023 article (I have removed the orange maintenance tag). Paul W (talk) 18:12, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Great work! Schwede66 15:13, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- I have now expanded the prose section in the main body to complete its summary coverage all the Tour stages. It now has a similar level of coverage to the 2023 article (I have removed the orange maintenance tag). Paul W (talk) 18:12, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- I was hoping to stimulate others to expand the article. Work pressures mean I currently have little time to expand it myself. Paul W (talk) 09:27, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Paul W, you’ve added so much unsourced text to the lead that I placed an orange maintenance tag on the article. You haven’t placed a single word of prose in the body. For someone who has written GAs, I really have to wonder how you could possibly vote “support” here. Just in case it needs spelling out, your work on the article is putting it further away from it being ready. Schwede66 20:14, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
Not ready. The article has no prose whatsoever about the course of the race i.e. what actually happened. Tables are not sufficient - there needs to be referenced prose.FWIW, if/when this is brought up to standard, I prefer the original blurb that specifies the race winner only. Modest Genius talk 11:13, 22 July 2024 (UTC)- There is now prose summarising up to stage 13, of a 21 stage race.
That's progress but still not postable.Modest Genius talk 15:09, 24 July 2024 (UTC)- Support The prose has been expanded and now covers the whole race. It looks good to post now, striking out my previous concerns. Modest Genius talk 18:36, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is now prose summarising up to stage 13, of a 21 stage race.
- Support. Widely considered the most important event in bicycle racing. Ready for posting: a summary of the race is given, together with detailed data on the participating teams, stages, and classifications. Ajgorhoe (talk) 13:24, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
I don't see any prose summary of the race in the article. There's just four unreferenced sentences in the lead (not verified in the body) and data tables.Modest Genius talk 13:37, 22 July 2024 (UTC)- (edit conflict) Ajgorhoe there isn't a summary of the race on 2024 Tour de France, there is 0 prose text summarising the race outcomes. Tables for classifications are not substitutes for a proper prose text summary, and is required by WP:ITNQUALITY . Joseph2302 (talk) 13:39, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- It needs something like 2023 Tour de France#Race overview which had 10 paragraphs of text summarising each stage (this one did get posted), not a few lines of mostly unsourced text in the lead section. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose there is an orange tag and there is very little prose. There is no race/event summary. PrinceofPunjabTALK 18:43, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- old comment, no longer accurate -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 18:48, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not ready Of course this is a notable event, but as others have pointed out the article needs work. Compare the 2024 article to the 2023 one for instance. Ludicrous (talk)
- Comment:
not quite 10% done, now... Who's next? :)-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 22:58, 22 July 2024 (UTC) - Ready, so support. Thanks to Paul W. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 18:44, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, in good shape now. Natg 19 (talk) 18:46, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Admins willing to post ITN: this appears to be ready to post. Prose updates were added to the article yesterday and everyone who has commented since then has supported. Modest Genius talk 11:00, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Started with first blurb; discussion still open re: Cavendish. SpencerT•C 17:05, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) 2024 Open Championship
edit
Blurb: In golf, Xander Schauffele wins the Open Championship. (Post)
Alternative blurb: In golf, Xander Schauffele wins the Open Championship.
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:
- Nominated by Natg 19 (talk · give credit)
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Needs a little bit more prose before posting. Natg 19 (talk) 19:26, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I believe a photo of Xander is around. TheCorriynial (talk) 19:29, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, I think it's sufficient ATM. BilledMammal (talk) 19:58, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose There are currently two unsourced paragraphs, and the Final round section doesn't have prose yet. Gödel2200 (talk) 20:06, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Weaksupport. The prose summaries of each day's play are brief but present and do meet our minimum requirements. Referencing seems fine and this is on ITNR. As seems to be common in golf articles, there is excessive detail on the qualifying process, which I've tagged. I would prefer if that was shortened or split to a sub-article, but that's not vital. Otherwise this seems good to go. Modest Genius talk 11:20, 22 July 2024 (UTC)- I've just noticed that the 'venue' section is unreferenced, which should be easy to fix. Modest Genius talk 11:26, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- I've fixed the venue issues, they weren't hard to find. It should be good enough now to post. TheCorriynial (talk) 14:39, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- I split the section to 2024 Open Championship field like I did for last year's article. Ed [talk] [OMT] 15:05, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you both, that looks good to me. Modest Genius talk 15:36, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- I've just noticed that the 'venue' section is unreferenced, which should be easy to fix. Modest Genius talk 11:26, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support there is one cn tag but otherwise article is in a good shape. PrinceofPunjabTALK 18:41, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 02:58, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) Joe Biden withdraws from US Presidential race
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
.jpg)
Blurb:
Alternative blurb: Incumbent President and Democratic nominee Joe Biden suspends his campaign for the 2024 United States presidential election.
Alternative blurb II: Incumbent President and Democratic presumptive nominee Joe Biden suspends his campaign for the 2024 United States presidential election.
Alternative blurb III: Incumbent President and Democratic presumptive nominee Joe Biden ends his campaign for the 2024 United States presidential election.
Alternative blurb IV: Incumbent President and presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden ends his campaign for the 2024 United States presidential election.
Alternative blurb V: Joe Biden, the incumbent president and the presumptive Democratic nominee, ends his campaign in the 2024 United States presidential election.
Alternative blurb VI: Incumbent U.S. President Joe Biden ends his campaign for the Democratic Party's nomination in the 2024 presidential election.
News source(s): https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-81-pulls-out-presidential-race-2024-07-21/
Credits:
- Nominated by BilledMammal (talk · give credit)
- Oppose would be a bad precedent to set. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:11, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- The last time a US president didn't run for a second term was 1968, and a major party presidential candidate has never withdrawn so close to the election date. I doubt this will happen again in our lifetimes, so I'm not worried about setting a precedent. BilledMammal (talk) 18:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Alt Blurb II Given that this news around Biden's withdrawal is entirely unprecedented (closest to 1968), and has huge implications in global politics, I support posting Alt Blurb II on account of its simplicity and least biased statement. HamiltonthesixXmusic (talk) 18:22, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- @AirshipJungleman29 Please elaborate on what precedent this would set? Alexysun (talk) 00:18, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Exactly. How would putting something like this in ITN set a bad precedent excatly? Luke0821 (talk) 00:26, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- The last time a US president didn't run for a second term was 1968, and a major party presidential candidate has never withdrawn so close to the election date. I doubt this will happen again in our lifetimes, so I'm not worried about setting a precedent. BilledMammal (talk) 18:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose While heavily in the news, this isn't quite on the same standard for ITN. Very rarely are non-ITN/R political stories posted, as the "real story" goes towards the ultimate result of the election. (which is already ITN/R regardless of outcome)(retracted) Nottheking (talk) 18:12, 21 July 2024 (UTC)- Support a rare event and highly consequential. 2A02:908:676:E640:85EF:EB52:F945:7238 (talk) 18:12, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support an extremely unique occurrence in our time. Polyamorph (talk) 18:18, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support The last time a president chose not to run for a second term was in 1968, this event has potential to change the outcome of this election cycle, for better or worse.
- CallMeVbuck (talk) 18:17, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Johnson only pulled out when he almost lost the NH primary... Biden won all primaries except for AS, this might be the first time ever when a candidate for a major party had the delegates to be named the nominee... and then drop out. Scu ba (talk) 18:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Good point. So basically this has NEVER happened before. Alexysun (talk) 06:23, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Johnson only pulled out when he almost lost the NH primary... Biden won all primaries except for AS, this might be the first time ever when a candidate for a major party had the delegates to be named the nominee... and then drop out. Scu ba (talk) 18:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose As he had yet to be selected as the Democratic candidate (it was only presumptive), this is not really that significant of a story in terms of how we treat elections. --Masem (t) 18:18, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- There were no other candidates against him. This is historically unprecedented. 331dot (talk) 21:27, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support First time in generations, maybe even ever, where the incumbent president drops out of their re-election bid after winning almost all the primaries and having enough delegates to be named the nominee.Scu ba (talk) 18:19, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Alt II, it is the most accurate and does the least editorializing. This is pretty huge, and has massive implications. Lunsel (talk) 18:20, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Alt II as well; better than the initial blurb I threw together. BilledMammal (talk) 18:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, support Alt IV; "ends" is clearer than "suspends". BilledMammal (talk) 18:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I've moved that wording over my alt3; I pasted from alt1 instead of alt2 accidentally amidst edit conflicts, and accidentally left out "presumptive". —Cryptic 18:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I see there is now a new Alt IV; I support either Alt IV or Alt III. BilledMammal (talk) 18:49, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I would now also support alt IV Lunsel (talk) 18:59, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I see there is now a new Alt IV; I support either Alt IV or Alt III. BilledMammal (talk) 18:49, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I've moved that wording over my alt3; I pasted from alt1 instead of alt2 accidentally amidst edit conflicts, and accidentally left out "presumptive". —Cryptic 18:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, support Alt IV; "ends" is clearer than "suspends". BilledMammal (talk) 18:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Alt II as well; better than the initial blurb I threw together. BilledMammal (talk) 18:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support very notable twist in the election cycle. We're reporting on the president not seeking re-election only four months before it, not some minor candidate dropping out of the race, so there's no worry of "precedent" here. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 18:20, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Alt II - Clearly an ITN-worthy blurb. Jusdafax (talk) 18:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Support This is huge. Not just in American terms but also global terms. Very consequential and will definitely change the entire outcome of the election, as most Democrats were opposed to Biden to begin with. TwistedAxe [contact] 18:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support noteworthy development in 2024 US politics backed up by a well-sourced article. –Vuccala (talk) 18:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support: Notable, and rare, event. This is Paul (talk) 18:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support: Historical event. TheInevitables (talk) 18:25, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support per BilledMammal. It's not about Biden not running - it's the timing. This all comes down one month from the DNC's nominating convention and very likely will throw a real wrench in things as far as the larger election goes. DarkSide830 (talk) 18:25, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm also partial to Alt II. DarkSide830 (talk) 18:39, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Navel-gazing about who is and isn't running for office is a particular country is not ITN-worthy. We will post the result of the upcoming election - a post about a candidate not running in the election is not necessary, and presumably it would never be seriously considered for any other country. Chrisclear (talk) 18:31, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- What's the proof that we wouldn't post such a story from another country under the same circumstances? DarkSide830 (talk) 18:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- how is this navel-gazing TheLoyalOrder (talk) 21:41, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support It has been more than 50 years since the last time an eligible incumbent president didn't ran for the office so it is an pretty historic event. PrinceofPunjabTALK 18:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Agree with DarkSide. New York Times says that "No sitting president has dropped out of a race so late in the election cycle in American history". Lazman321 (talk) 18:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support: It's news, It's important (means 100% chance new President on January 20), it's sourced. That's all we need pbp 18:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support This is in the news. Boom. That is all. Lukt64 (talk) 18:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - was going to nominate, though I could also see waiting until the convention being viable (even though it's certain that Kamala will be the nominee). — Knightoftheswords 18:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - it's ridiculous that there would be any debate on this - as this is going to be the top news story on every major global newspaper tomorrow, English language or not. It's already the top headline right now on nearly every news site that regularly updates its content. Colipon+(Talk) 18:41, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per above. --Bedivere (talk) 18:41, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- +Alt3. "Suspends" is misleading jargon here; its plain meaning is to halt something temporarily, and there isn't any question whether he'll do an about-face and resume his campaign. Let's just use "ends" like Joe Biden 2024 presidential campaign does. —Cryptic 18:42, 21 July 2024 (UTC) (The later alt4 is also acceptable. —Cryptic 18:56, 21 July 2024 (UTC))
- Strong Oppose Internal American politics. We would never post anything like this for any other country. We have enough systemic bias on the project. We post elections results, not ongoing developments in campaigns. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:43, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- If Macron, for example, had withdrawn from the 2022 French Presidential elections at a similar point I think we would have posted him - and other countries, like Britain, would see us posting by default, as a PM withdrawing during an election would result in a new PM. BilledMammal (talk) 18:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I disagree and seriously doubt we would have posted Macron dropping out. We did not post Angela Merckle's decision to retire, When the election results are in, we can post them. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:51, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Merkel decided to retire three years prior to the next election - if her decision was as last minute as this one, I think we would have posted it. BilledMammal (talk) 18:57, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Merkel was never in the running for the CDU's leadership election in 2021. If you like, you could say she had dropped out in 2018. I'd say over two years is substantialy more notice than one month. DarkSide830 (talk) 19:01, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I disagree and seriously doubt we would have posted Macron dropping out. We did not post Angela Merckle's decision to retire, When the election results are in, we can post them. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:51, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- If Macron, for example, had withdrawn from the 2022 French Presidential elections at a similar point I think we would have posted him - and other countries, like Britain, would see us posting by default, as a PM withdrawing during an election would result in a new PM. BilledMammal (talk) 18:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Support. The last time this happened with an Incumbent president was in the 1960s. I don't see this not making headlines around the world. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support alt4 This is a historic event which will have a major impact on the election. The fact that this is a national event in no way lessens its significance. Gödel2200 (talk) 18:45, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong support, presumptive Dem nominee and incumbent president withdraws very late into the election year Personisinsterest (talk) 18:45, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose — U.S.-centric news. This nomination should be the second withdrawn today. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 18:50, 21 July 2024 (UTC
- This hasn't happened in 60+ years. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:53, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- With the exception of Pope Benedict XVI, name a single country where we blurbed a head of state/government's decision to stand down. We didn't do it with Angela Merckle, and we didn't do it with the former PM of New Zealand. This is a glaring example of the very strong systemic bias that exists on Wikipedia. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:57, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- the world is systemically biased towards America. That's just the reality of hegemonic politics. There's a reason this is instant headline news everywhere in the world. LocoTacoFever (talk) 19:01, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- So start doing it? This sounds like an editor bias, not a news bias. I would totally support something that hasn't happened in 50+ years with politics. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:02, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, Shinzo Abe (It was four years ago, so I wouldn't expect you to remember, but you actually nominated this one!) BilledMammal (talk) 19:03, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- With the exception of Pope Benedict XVI, name a single country where we blurbed a head of state/government's decision to stand down. We didn't do it with Angela Merckle, and we didn't do it with the former PM of New Zealand. This is a glaring example of the very strong systemic bias that exists on Wikipedia. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:57, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- This hasn't happened in 60+ years. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:53, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- These are resignations, not campaign suspensions. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:18, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Joe Biden has not resigned as president. If he were to do so, I would support that nomination. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:25, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- You did ask for resignations It's also very difficult to find circumstances equivalent to this, where a leader withdrew their candidacy in the middle of an election but did remained in office until their term concluded. Vaguely similar might be Tony Blair, whose announcement that he would step down in a year we posted. BilledMammal (talk) 19:58, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ardern’s resignation in 2023 was posted. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 22:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong support, Incumbent leader of the free world calls it quits.Not sure if his endorsed VP is presidential material but that's another tale. CoatCheck (talk) 18:52, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- He's not the 'leader of the free world'. Nobody elected the US to be overlord of other nations. It's a ridiculous bit of cold-war posturing that makes a mockery of the freedom of other nations. GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:12, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- The phrase [still acknowledged due to the U.S. role leading Western countries militarily, culturally and economically.] Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 19:59, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- If other nations aren't free to choose this mythic 'leader of the free world', in what sense are they free? How the hell do you have an unelected leader of world democracy? It's piffle. It's about as real a title as 'king of pop', and we oughtn't to indulge it. GenevieveDEon (talk) 20:31, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- You are free to think what you wish about the use of this phrase, but that doesn't change the fact that many RS use it. 331dot (talk) 21:29, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- My point is that it's a jingoistic peacock term with no basis in fact, and CoatCheck's use of it in their 'support' argument shouldn't count for anything. We can all use fancy terms of unsupported praise for the subjects of nominated articles, if we really want to, but it shouldn't have any bearing on whether the story gets posted. GenevieveDEon (talk) 21:47, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- You are free to think what you wish about the use of this phrase, but that doesn't change the fact that many RS use it. 331dot (talk) 21:29, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- If other nations aren't free to choose this mythic 'leader of the free world', in what sense are they free? How the hell do you have an unelected leader of world democracy? It's piffle. It's about as real a title as 'king of pop', and we oughtn't to indulge it. GenevieveDEon (talk) 20:31, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- The phrase [still acknowledged due to the U.S. role leading Western countries militarily, culturally and economically.] Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 19:59, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- He's not the 'leader of the free world'. Nobody elected the US to be overlord of other nations. It's a ridiculous bit of cold-war posturing that makes a mockery of the freedom of other nations. GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:12, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose, consider a comparative headline in another country and most wouldn't consider blurbing. Ornithoptera (talk) 18:52, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose the assassination attempt wasn't up on ITN even 3 days and now this? It's politics inside a single political party. R or D primaries don't get featured on ITN. Political assassinations do, and the last one didn't even last 3 days. 2A02:2F05:1000:6700:5A9:2759:BC9A:5403 (talk) 18:55, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- We do not control the news cycle, so cannot guarantee how long something will be posted. Curbon7 (talk) 20:49, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support but wait until we've sourced everything. This has made worldwide headlines, and is likely the latest withdrawal in U.S. history. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 18:54, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Absolutely monumental impact This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 18:55, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Support: It is centered around American politics, yes, but it is a huge development that inherently recontextualizes the entire election & geopolitical landscape. Likewise, nothing like it has ever happened in this country's history before. BOTTO (T•C) 18:56, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support: it's the first item on the front page of Le Monde diplomatique, The Times of London, Der Spiegel, The South China Morning Post, and The Times of India. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 19:00, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Also the Toronto Star, El Pais, Al Jazeera, the BBC... theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 19:05, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is no publication called 'The Times of London'. GenevieveDEon (talk) 20:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Jeez louise, they posted the link. No reason to be so pedantic. Kicking222 (talk) 21:16, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is no publication called 'The Times of London'. GenevieveDEon (talk) 20:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support ITN wouldn't normally include incumbents not contesting an election, but this story clearly is extremely notable and will be something the average reader may be looking for. Worth noting that one of the purposes of ITN is "To help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news." With that being said, we should perhaps wait a little bit to settle on a blurb and polish the target article. Gust Justice (talk) 19:00, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support This is similar to the announcement of the resignation of Boris Johnson, which we posted. Biden is now a lame duck and that's significant. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:01, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- If Biden resigned, that would be a different situation. Withdrawing a nomination is not the same as resigning. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Johnson stayed in post as PM for months after the announcement but the intent to step down was significant, as it has been in other such cases. See lame duck (politics) which explains the effect of such announcements. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:12, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- If Biden resigned, that would be a different situation. Withdrawing a nomination is not the same as resigning. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support: theleekycauldron gave good reasons, it's obviously the #1 news story everywhere else. No good reason to not cover it here. Blurb should say "ends" not "suspends" per NYT website top headline "BIDEN DROPS OUT OF 2024 RACE". ☆ Bri (talk) 19:03, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Support - This moment has a significant impact on world politics, and it unprecedented for an American president to drop out of the race this soon before an election. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 19:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose He’s not resigning as president but just announcing his intent not to run for a second term in an election in which he would be a clear underdog according to most opinion polls in the swing states. Similar things regularly happen around the globe, so we really don’t need to set a precedent.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:11, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I see you've brought back your pyschic knowledge of what is going to happen (or would have been going to happen) later in the campaign once again. Can we stick to the facts, please? GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, the facts clearly tell that he’s faring bad in the swing states, and that’s even well documented in this article. If your “facts” are different, you’re invited to correct the mistakes in the article.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:34, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I see you've brought back your pyschic knowledge of what is going to happen (or would have been going to happen) later in the campaign once again. Can we stick to the facts, please? GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - He's not stepping down as president, so this is about the internal workings of a single political party. We didn't announce when Keir Starmer became Leader of the Opposition, but only when he became Prime Minister. While not exactly parallel, this is a similar situation. GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- + Blurb V: Joe Biden is the subject of the sentence so his name should appear at the start of the sentence, rather than with a wordy explanation of his position. –Vuccala (talk) 19:16, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Its bolded article Withdrawal of Joe Biden from the 2024 United States presidential election is at afd, so can't be posted here until that's resolved. —Cryptic 19:18, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Stronger Support Of course! A major turning point in the race, a race which some consider to be one of the most important, if not the most important in American History! As user @AirshipJungleman29 pointed out, this has not happened since 1968. An incumbent president not even seeking re-election! Of course, a major event happening today in which the most powerful political office in the world has had a major shakeup. How is this not WAY more notable than that Vietnamese politician dying (R.I.P)? I say it must be included, no doubt about it. Jayson (talk) 19:13, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- But we would normally only post the outcome of that race. ITN is not generally concerned with the internal mechanisms of political races. We didn't post the calling of the French snap election, nor the formation of the NFP alliance to contest it, nor the outcome of the first round. GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:29, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- For context,
that Vietnamese politician
was the current de facto leader of Vietnam, so his death had much more direct implications. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 20:17, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support alt5, and if the bolded article gets deleted support alt2. Historic event, clearly unprecedented. mwwv converse∫edits 19:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- How is this unprecedented? What about Johnson, most recently. Nfitz (talk) 19:29, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - you have to be frigging kidding me. Just because it happened in the USA, doesn't make it ITN. And if it was ITN, why didn't we nominate when this happened in ANY other country. Nfitz (talk) 19:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- If Biden doesn't complete his term (that still lasts into 2025) then that would be ITN. Nfitz (talk) 19:26, 21 July 2024 (UTC)!
- Slightly Oppose I sort of understand the reason to post, since there has already been a lot about Biden running to continue his term (including a presidential debate), however, since he didn’t accept the nomination already, he technically wasn’t the party’s candidate yet. Plus, as mentioned, he’s not resigning, he’s just not continuing. If it was a resignation or a removal from power, it would be important. This isn’t a major change on the world stage, it’s only a change for the US. Kybrion (talk) 19:22, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose: Internal American politics. Not appropriate for ITN. If any other country's leader chose to not run for re-election, and somebody made this nomination, it would have been WP:SNOW.Melmann 19:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. Sets a bad precedent by having too much domestic politics be featured. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 19:26, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose "Potential candidate steps away from standing for election", really not that important in general. We wouldn't do the same if the British PM opted not to stand, so no sense in doing it for Sleepy Joe. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 19:27, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I strongly agree. And we should not have posted when Boris Johnson announced his resignation (but only when he actually went), and I have no desire to repeat that error here. GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:31, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Exactly. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Joe Biden wasn't just a "Potential candidate". He already won the primary elections and was the presumptive nominee. --Pithon314 (talk) 19:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- But we don't post the outcomes of the primaries. We don't post the outcomes of the party conventions. We post the outcome of the election, and this isn't that. This is an internal party matter. GenevieveDEon (talk) 20:34, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I strongly agree. And we should not have posted when Boris Johnson announced his resignation (but only when he actually went), and I have no desire to repeat that error here. GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:31, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose seriously not. Domestic politics and another political drama. Per milionth time, this is not a news ticket, this is not a NYT headlines, and this us not USApedia. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- This has made headlines across the globe. Kcmastrpc (talk) 20:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- And? This is not a Breaking News ticket. _-_Alsor (talk) 20:33, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- This has made headlines across the globe. Kcmastrpc (talk) 20:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
SupportOppose By itself, being domestic politics doesn't automatically mean it shouldn't be featured at ITN (see WP:ITNCDONT,Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one
). However, if it happened in another country, it would very much not have been blurbed, as it is one more campaign development rather than a definitive result, so posting it would risk reinforcing the Euro-American bias already present on ITN. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 19:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)- @Chaotic Enby: I'm struggling to think of any other country this - a leader withdrawing their candidacy during the election campaign, but remaining in power until the end of their term - has happened in. The closest I can think of is John Howard announcing at the start of the 2007 Australian election that if he won he would immediately step down and make Peter Costello prime minister, but even that isn't quite the same thing, as he was still running from Prime Minister.
- I genuinely think that we would post this for any country in the G20, at the very least.
- (Also, it's clearly snowing, so while it might seem I'm debating the merits of this proposal, I'm actually using this as an excuse to try to find similar events) BilledMammal (talk) 20:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- François Hollande announcing in December 2016 (less than five months before the 2017 French presidential election) that he would not run for his own reelection. That came as a massive surprise, even though Hollande was already polling very low at the time. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 20:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I considered that (we didn't post it - it wasn't even nominated), but it wasn't quite as last minute as this, with the Socialists having time to hold a primary. BilledMammal (talk) 20:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- François Hollande announcing in December 2016 (less than five months before the 2017 French presidential election) that he would not run for his own reelection. That came as a massive surprise, even though Hollande was already polling very low at the time. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 20:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Support The political equivalent of Michael Jordan stepping back from basketball at the peak of his career. We are truly on the most interesting timeline. Schierbecker (talk) 19:39, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- We don't post sports retirements in the first place. — Masem (t) 19:41, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- We posted several, to be honest. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:37, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- We have. Alex Ferguson and Sachin Tendulkar. 331dot (talk) 21:34, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- We don't post sports retirements in the first place. — Masem (t) 19:41, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Event is clearly "In the News". BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Per User:Theleekycauldron this is front page breaking news worldwide. --Pithon314 (talk) 19:48, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. This important development is clearly going to be the most significant event reported worldwide today, by a wide margin. Frankly, the idea that we might even consider omitting it from our "in the news" section would be met with confusion, disbelief, and scorn if it were suggested anywhere else than on this page. Newyorkbrad (talk) 19:53, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support per WP:IAR. Yes it's pre-election news, yes it's to do with candidacy, but it's undoubtedly the biggest news and it's what people are looking for. BBC News on television is frozen on this story ever since it broke, so it's hardly a parochial US story (I don't know on what planet the US president is a local-only story). Don't tell me that people are also looking for Taylor Swift or the latest Netflix releases, this is undoubtedly not the same tihng. This involves the incumbent president, it is extremely late in the electoral cycle, making it unprecedented as to what happens next. To my knowledge, the last time the incumbent pulled out was LBJ, who did so very early in the primaries, thus allowing the Democrats to elect their candidate the standard way. Unknown Temptation (talk) 20:08, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. Not remotely ITN material, this would set a terrible precedent for posting news ticker material. I was unsure if this would be nominated or not, I thought someone might try it and it would be SNOW closed quickly, so genuinely gobsmacked to see this with support. We'll post the US election when the winner is known in November, but other than that we do not post details of the primaries and candidate selection and other minutiae. Do not post. — Amakuru (talk) 20:17, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I wouldn’t qualify this as minutiae. Kcmastrpc (talk) 20:20, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Well, it's rendered more newsworthy because of the last-minute decision and the will-he-won't-he speculation of the last few weeks. Everyone's talking about the story now. But ultimately, objectively it's just a detail in the candidate selection process for the election. If Biden had chosen not to run back in January, would we have posted that? If Trump were to unexpectedly pull out now, would we post that? He's not standing down as president. I just think anything about the internals of an election is, from the point of view of ITN, minutiae.
- I wouldn’t qualify this as minutiae. Kcmastrpc (talk) 20:20, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support though strongly suggest alt blurb that includes the endorsement of Harris. Kcmastrpc (talk) 20:19, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Support This is a significant event that's not happened in modern history.
Alt blurb II is the most accurate.TheSavageNorwegian 20:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oops. The reporting is about "ending" his campaign, not suspending it. I'm sure technically it will be suspended for campaign finance rules, but if everyone and everywhere is saying "ended" than we should say it too. TheSavageNorwegian 20:29, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Support This is the biggest news of the week by far globally, will be talked about for decades to come in historical and political circles, and there has never been an incumbent, eligible American president declining to run for reelection in the age of the internet. RPH (talk) 20:27, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - In ten years, today will be noted as merely an important-ish moment during the 2024 US presidency, of which there were several, but Biden is still the president, that isn't changing anytime soon (hopefully). ITN should be reserved for hugely significant moments. And I don't think what happened today qualifies. For the US, certainly, but Wikipedia is Wikipedia for everyone. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- WP:Notcrystallball. How can you say it won't be considered important?
- Maybe it will be considered very important for history of US. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:37, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak support If he'd just decided not to run for a second term, this would not be ITN-worthy. It would just be tired old man do as he said and don't run again. But this late in the race, with all the mess and waves this makes, it will affect not just the US. Most of the world is watching too. Cart (talk) 20:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability. Unprecedented situation in State regarding circumstances and very very rare. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Very important news not only for the United States, but for the international community. It radically changes the course of the world's most important election. Notorious enough to be in 'In the News'.
- Hume42 (talk) 20:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Support The last incumbent to drop out was Lyndon B. Johnson, more than 50 years ago. This has the potential to really shake up US politics in the long term. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MaximumMangoCloset (talk • contribs)
- Weak oppose While major internal US politics, it's still fundamentally internal US politics that would not be covered if this were any other country. Windfarmer — talk 20:41, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Windfarmer1799 I think you have the opinion that all countries need to be treated equally on Wikipedia, but I vehemently disagree. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:27, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh and let me just add that the United States is the 2nd largest democracy in the world. I arrived at this conclusion because it is the 3rd largest country by population in the world, with China and India above it in population and China is not a democracy and does not run direct elections. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:33, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Windfarmer1799 I think you have the opinion that all countries need to be treated equally on Wikipedia, but I vehemently disagree. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:27, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support top news story globally. As noted above, ITN has posted when Prime Ministers announce they are stepping down but remaining a caretaker until their replacement is determined. Walsh90210 (talk) 20:47, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I to IV; this should not link to the withdrawal article, which should be merged to the main campaign page. Reywas92Talk 20:49, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - US-centric internal politics. If this was happening in any other country, "incumbent who has been in power for only 4 years declines to run again due to health concerns" is just an event in an election cycle. This event is very important to one country, one that just happens to be over represented on this website. Those who are saying "this has never happened before" or "last time this happened was in the 1960s" are assuming the reader implicitly agrees that elections in other countries don't count. BugGhost🦗👻 20:56, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Bugghost I think you have the opinion that all countries need to be treated equally on Wikipedia, but I vehemently disagree. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh and let me just add that the United States is the 2nd largest democracy in the world. I arrived at this conclusion because it is the 3rd largest country by population in the world, with China and India above it in population and China is not a democracy and does not run direct elections. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Bugghost I think you have the opinion that all countries need to be treated equally on Wikipedia, but I vehemently disagree. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support This is very clearly "in the news". Additionally, the last time this occurred was with Lyndon B. Johnson, 56 years ago. It is clearly a very rare thing and sets a precedent not only for the USA but also for the international community. IncompA 21:03, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak oppose I'm not really convinced of the significance of this. If he were resigning as president I would surely support, but withdrawing from an election isn't really any more significant than the results of primaries or other internal party matters which aren't ever posted, only the result of the actual election. I don't think there's much reason to believe the course of the election will radically change with a Trump victory still most likely. Out of 195 countries in the world I'm sure there's frequent "never happened before/rarely happens in this country's politics" moments. Being "in the news" isn't enough for ITN - otherwise it would end up a celebrity news ticker --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 21:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Absoutely NOT - We post the result of the election, not the processes or incidents that get us there. -- KTC (talk) 21:11, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Exactly. We wouldn't post when he was formally selected as nominee by the DNC, so we equally shouldn't post that he won't be. GenevieveDEon (talk) 21:26, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- We posted such an incident just a week ago – the shooting at a Trump election rally. The claim that we only post election results is clearly false. Andrew🐉(talk) 21:33, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Candidates being shot at is not part of the electoral process! It was an assassination attempt, and we (rightly) posted the attempted assassination if Robert Fico earlier this year. Its newsworthiness was only tangentially related to the fact that it happened at a rally. GenevieveDEon (talk) 21:49, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- No, the shooting story was big because of its effect on the campaign. It's one of the reasons that Biden has now withdrawn --it highlighted the apparent difference in the candidates' vigour. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:08, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I see your point but the assassination attempt was featured because of the nature of the event being an assassination attempt on a major political figure as opposed to its effect on the campaign. No doubt it helped Trump but it was not the subject of the event. Joecompan (talk) 22:50, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Trump is a major political figure because he's campaigning to be President again. This is not a coincidental detail; it's a fundamental part of the story. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:02, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- I see your point but the assassination attempt was featured because of the nature of the event being an assassination attempt on a major political figure as opposed to its effect on the campaign. No doubt it helped Trump but it was not the subject of the event. Joecompan (talk) 22:50, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- No, the shooting story was big because of its effect on the campaign. It's one of the reasons that Biden has now withdrawn --it highlighted the apparent difference in the candidates' vigour. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:08, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Candidates being shot at is not part of the electoral process! It was an assassination attempt, and we (rightly) posted the attempted assassination if Robert Fico earlier this year. Its newsworthiness was only tangentially related to the fact that it happened at a rally. GenevieveDEon (talk) 21:49, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Says who? There is no policy. Seems like your opinion. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:36, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - ITN is not normally for internal workings of political campaigns. We shouldn't make an exception in this case either. --Mika1h (talk) 21:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- This is not an "internal working" of a campaign. 331dot (talk) 21:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- It absolutely is. The presumptive nominee doesn't let his name go forward to the national convention. That's entirely the internal workings of a party's campaign. GenevieveDEon (talk) 21:34, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, it is. More than evident. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Understating this event to be an "internal workings of political campaigns" is an extremely rigid worldview. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:39, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. This is either ITN or it isn't. This is in the news and is historically rare. 331dot (talk) 21:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Biden’s withdrawal is internal party politics. Including this should also then warrant inclusion of DNC candidate next month, which we obviously shouldn't do. — hako9 (talk) 21:43, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- People trying to gauge what's important by analyzing this directly miss the whole point of Wikipedia. We're supposed to look at reliable sources for guidance wherever possible. This isn't newsworthy or not newsworthy because it's an internal political event or a major U.S. story – it's newsworthy because it's in the news. All over the world. Right now. That's the only metric that really matters. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 21:55, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Except we do not base postings primarily how many sites have a story on their front page, see WP:ITNATA. -Mika1h (talk) 22:09, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- you could pretty easily eliminate the "internal politics" objection as an
argument that deals with the appropriateness of topics in general but also ignores the specific story being discussed
, so ITNATA would disqualify most of the arguments in this thread. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 22:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- you could pretty easily eliminate the "internal politics" objection as an
- Announcement to withdraw a few months back would also have the same world ramifications and the same amount of headlines, but wouldn't have the overwhelming ITN inclusion concensus. Since it's closer to the dnc now, the significance is limited to higher likelihood of Trump winning as Andrew points below. And if that's the only factor, we shouldn't include this. — hako9 (talk) 22:11, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Except we do not base postings primarily how many sites have a story on their front page, see WP:ITNATA. -Mika1h (talk) 22:09, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- This is not just an internal matter because Biden is the incumbent. His lame duck status now reduces his clout when dealing with other countries. And the announcement also affects the likelihood of Trump becoming president again which also influences international relations. That's why the rest of the world is taking such an interest in this (unlike Nepal or Rwanda). Andrew🐉(talk) 21:59, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Do Nepal or Rwanda not have international relations? BugGhost🦗👻 22:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Considering that Rwanda's GDP is a measly 13.31 billion USD and Nepal's GDP is also a measly 40.83 billion USD, I would say they don't have much say in international relations. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:48, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Also, I would fully support events in Rwandan or Nepali politics being posted, if news media gave those events similar levels of coverage. A bunch of people here are commenting about what they personally feel is Important vs. Not Important, an inherently subjective matter of opinion, and something with no relation to ITN's purpose—to highlight content for the public WP audience that is related to "current news"—and that is not intended to be a criterion for judging what should go on ITN.
- How do people know all those anonymous people out there reading Wikipedia aren't interested in a topic? Or, is it being implicitly asserted that they oughtn't, and by gum, if WP readers care about the wrong stuff, then our job is to give those foolish readers a stiff cropping about the ears and make sure we get across to them what it is they should care about, things such as *glances* Syria's dictatorship "winning" their latest sham election. (Hey if we're doing, "ITN items should be posted on what I, myself personally, find important" how 'bout some computing and "tech" news? Can we do updates on C++23 implementation progress?) Slowking Man (talk) 03:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Considering that Rwanda's GDP is a measly 13.31 billion USD and Nepal's GDP is also a measly 40.83 billion USD, I would say they don't have much say in international relations. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:48, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Do Nepal or Rwanda not have international relations? BugGhost🦗👻 22:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Joe Biden is the incumbent US president who already won the nomination after the primaries. The DNC (and RNC) are just ceremonial events . NamelessLameless (talk) 00:45, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- People trying to gauge what's important by analyzing this directly miss the whole point of Wikipedia. We're supposed to look at reliable sources for guidance wherever possible. This isn't newsworthy or not newsworthy because it's an internal political event or a major U.S. story – it's newsworthy because it's in the news. All over the world. Right now. That's the only metric that really matters. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 21:55, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support The president of the United States is in the middle of a re-election campaign, about 3 and half months before election, when he stops this campaign and announces he will not seek re-election. It is a significant event in world politics, because the U.S. president is an important figure in world politics. Would not be that significant if it concerned a country with lesser military and political influence. Periwinklewrinkles (talk) 21:53, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Even though I am coming to more philosophical views on ITN's purpose and what non-regular-user readers are quickly looking for, there isn't much to say about this except it happened. In more conventional !vote argument territory, we do not post when the parties select their candidates, and this is effectively just one part of that process and inherently less notable within the whole election. It could also create precedent for posting whenever an incumbent leader says they will not be seeking re-election, an often nothingburger of a story. Kingsif (talk) 21:56, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support A U.S. president stepping down from the election just months away from when it’s going to occur is a very rare event and deserves coverage. Hungry403 (talk) 22:00, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support with Alternative blurb IV. This is the first of such an occurrence since 1968. Just as Trump's assassination made ITN, so too should Biden's withdrawal from the race. — That Coptic Guyping me! (talk) (contribs) 22:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Very clearly high in the news everywhere and to me that is what is important. Rhino131 (talk) 22:10, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose This is an intra-party issue and internal American politics. There has been no election and no resignation. As others have noted, we would never post anything like this for any other country. It's time to put out money where our mouth is on systemic bias. (Arguments like "It has been more than 50 years since..." or "notable, and rare, event" or "an extremely unique occurrence in our time" alone seem pretty weak.) — AjaxSmack 22:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Unprecedented in modern times. A clearly notable current event with potentially massive ramifications. GWA88 (talk) 22:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not "unprecedented in modern times", it happened in France in 2017 (which did not receive a ITN then either) BugGhost🦗👻 22:41, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Clearly it is unprecedented in the United States. Ludicrous (talk) 22:56, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Fillon and Macron where on completely different parties. This analogy makes no sense. Scu ba (talk) 23:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I was referring to to
Incumbent president François Hollande of the Socialist Party (PS) was eligible to run for a second term, but declared on 1 December 2016 that he would not seek reelection in light of low approval ratings, making him the first incumbent head of state of the Fifth Republic not to seek reelection
, which happened five months before the election. BugGhost🦗👻 23:13, 21 July 2024 (UTC)- yeah but Hollande didn't campaign for months and drop out just days before his parties convention. Scu ba (talk) 23:18, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I was referring to to
- Not "unprecedented in modern times", it happened in France in 2017 (which did not receive a ITN then either) BugGhost🦗👻 22:41, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose Gigantic news for sure, but I really don’t think we’d be posting this if it wasn’t the USA, and that’s not good enough for me.The Kip (contribs) 22:52, 21 July 2024 (UTC)- The global coverage, later arguments, and the firsthand experience of visiting the White House literally six hours after the news broke only to witness Australian, British, Indian, and Turkish news crews on site, not even just Americans, has made me realize how ridiculous this sentiment was. Change to post-posting support. The Kip (contribs) 03:44, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
Gigantic news for sure, but I really don’t think we’d be posting this if it wasn’t the most powerful country on the planet
yeah okay dude Scu ba (talk) 23:03, 21 July 2024 (UTC)- US politics have wide-ranging repercussions on the rest of geopolitics as a whole. It is hardly surprising that this is world news. This isn't a US-centric, favored news story by any means. — That Coptic Guyping me! (talk) (contribs) 23:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think we're here to post "Gigantic news for sure". Bremps... 00:12, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Whether or not there is precedent, one must acknowledge the global political influence of this event. This one is a no-brainer. Ludicrous (talk)
- Weak support I get the argument that it was an event in the lead up to the election which is why I am not fully supportive of it, however I believe that it is notable due to the nature of this election cycle being so widely covered internationally. News outlets everywhere have been talking about how Biden has stepped down and even in the lead up to it most major international news outlets were publishing articles about his current state. Joecompan (talk) 22:55, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support It's a significant event which has global implications. Blurb IV reads well. --Voyager 1 Low Battery Alert (talk) 22:57, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Neutral Yes it has significant global implications, but so did other events that fail to get posted. This also happened 56 years ago, or 14 election cycles ago. I’m not going to oppose it but this is a bit UScentric.108.58.27.76 (talk) 23:05, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose as per KTC and Mika1. Sharrdx (talk) 23:08, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support It’s the 1st time that an American presidential candidate has withdrawn after securing enough delegates to win their party’s nomination, so it’s a unique event. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Many if not most national news organizations around the world will mention this event, as it is an impactful. This fits "in the news" criteria. -- IlyaHaykinson (talk) 23:37, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong support alt2 or alt3 To anyone who thinks this does not have an effect beyond US borders, consider this: this may result with Donald Trump being re-elected. Do you think that won't have world-wide repercussions? -- llywrch (talk) 23:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support some blurb, and this is not being posted as an electoral result, it is being posted as news. The literal top story across the entire god damn world lol. Israel is at war and it’s the top story at Haaretz (Hebrew and English) and Times of Israel for example. Top story at Le Monde (English and French). Top story at Corriere della Sera (Italian). This is very obviously in the news, the article is well developed. This is a no brainer. nableezy - 00:10, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support per this comment. Bremps... 00:12, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. Seems like a case of systemic bias. Someone who was hoping to become his party's nominee is no longer running for the nomination; this is a couple steps removed from the election itself. It's hard to imagine we would be considering this for ITN if it happened in any other country. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 00:14, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Mx. Granger "hoping to become his party's nominee is no longer running for the nomination". This is an extreme understatement. He had no one against him, he is the incumbent. The fact he would have became the party's nominee was a forgone conclusion. Until he was pressured to drop out that is, but if he wanted to continue he would have got the nomination. NamelessLameless (talk) 00:29, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support (slight preference for Alternative blurb VI, but all are acceptable) for what I'd hope would be obvious reasons. This is a not-quite-but-almost unique event in American politics. Incumbent presidents generally don't drop out at the 11th hour. Joe (talk) 00:21, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Big news world wide. That should be the only criterion for ITN. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:19, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, this is a very unusual development in a political race of international importance, and is receiving wide coverage both inside and outside the US. I would support either blurb V or VI, there should be a link to Withdrawal of Joe Biden from the 2024 United States presidential election. Tisnec (talk) 00:29, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'll second that we should include a link to the Withdrawal of Joe Biden from the 2024 United States presidential election page. Joe (talk) 00:41, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- The Afd has ended, so we can link it now. Gödel2200 (talk) 01:40, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
That page currently is at Afd. Until that ends, we cannot link it in the blurb. Gödel2200 (talk) 00:48, 22 July 2024 (UTC)- @Gödel2200: AFD has been closed as “no consensus possible”. The article is now eligible for ITN. DrewieStewie (talk) 01:33, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- The Afd has ended, so we can link it now. Gödel2200 (talk) 01:40, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak Support due to media coverage. ITN/R doesn't cover this, but well, this isn’t exactly common occurrence. Juxlos (talk) 00:43, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose As a matter of principle, I do not think we should be posting ITN matters on the basis of American exceptionalism/chauvinism. At the end of the day, this is a matter of intra-party political campaigning. Curbon7 (talk) 01:05, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose as per previous commenters. In my opinion American internal politics are generally given undue weight on the front page and this is just another example.David Palmer//cloventt (talk) 01:10, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Whether people like it or not this has never happened in American history. Presidents have had their heads blown off. Presidents have died in office. Presidents have lost re-elections. Presidents have chosen not to seek re-election when their term ends… but never suspended their campaign 4 months before the election completely changing the entire election itself. Yes this is ITN. Trillfendi (talk) 01:13, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- The contents of the "Purpose" section at WP:ITN, reproduced for convenient reference (emphasis is mine):
To help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news.
To showcase quality Wikipedia content on current events.
To point readers to subjects they might not have been looking for but nonetheless may interest them.
To emphasize Wikipedia as a dynamic resource.
- I note that this appears to me to lack such objectives as, "Taking some kind of stand that, people on the English-language Internet focus on US politics and current events too much (a perhaps relevant observation here is that the US is by far the most-populous country where English is the dominant first language) and therefore, to Send A Message we pointedly are going to refuse taking note of those things at times. However we're not going to tell you, the general public who has no idea about the 'back rooms and hallways' of the project where decisions get made, that this is in fact what we are doing. Thus any of you showing up at the main page, might scratch your heads briefly thinking it's a bit curious that one section there doesn't mention that, but hey whatever there's probably some issue with the site or something", before hitting your favorite search engine to seek more information on the topic.
- I also note a lack of such purposes as, "Not mentioning the 'internal processes' and events which lead up to a general election in a country, but solely noting the ultimate outcome, to convey some sort of message that the final outcome is the only thing people ought to focus on". Or, that, "Domestic political events are not a matter of concern to ITN and its readers". I confess I find this reasoning especially perplexing: are not all elections and changes of government within a single country, definitionally, "domestic political events"? About the only political occurences ITN would note under this standard would be international ones, such as elections to the European Parliament and those within transnational bodies such as the United Nations and African Union. A consistent application of this principle seems to me to extend well beyond things like elections; if a civil war broke out in the US tomorrow, the same principle, to me, would seem to logically imply ITN making no mention of that as well, it being purely a domestic political squabble. (The lead sentence of civil war:
A civil war[a] is a war between organized groups within the same state (or country).
) --Slowking Man (talk) 01:28, 22 July 2024 (UTC) - Support: This is clearly a unique event, and we shouldn't bind ourselves to conventions. I can understand why we don't want to document every campaign event, but this isn't just some candidate dropping out. The incumbent US president and presumptive Democratic nominee dropped out after the primary process, later than any presidential nominee in history. This is a monumental shift in US politics. Use common sense. BappleBusiness[talk] 01:43, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose: In Argentina we have seen even weirder things happen, such as the likely candidate Cristina Fernández de Kirchner (basically, the local Trump) refusing to run in 2019 at the last minute and appointing instead a candidate with a tweeter post... a candidate that, up to that point, was a vocal critic of her. And in 2023, the president refused to run for reelection (just like Biden now) and the candidate was instead Sergio Massa... the minister of economy of a country just about to fall to hyperinflation, running for president (and he even had chances). And none of that circus was featured ITN. I doubt either was even proposed, because it would be a SNOW close. In comparison, what Biden is doing here is trivial. Cambalachero (talk) 01:52, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- ^^^^^ This... -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong support Let's not kid ourselves. This is NOT a run-of-the-mill campaign event. This is an unprecedented development that will shake the news cycle in the U.S. and around the world for the next week at least. I am honestly surprised that people are willing to let it slip because of a mere technicality. Zelkia1101 (talk) 01:58, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong support: Very notable event that the president of the United States decides midway through the campaign to drop out of the election. The last time this happened was in 1968. --A.S. Brown (talk) 02:06, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Per most of the supports above. Top news at the moment, and very unusual for an incumbent U.S president to not run for reelection. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 02:10, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose proposed blurbs for now. Reading the above comments, it seems that a majority of supporters and American Wikipedians have to explain the timing, context, and detailed procedures of the US presidential election system in order to argue why this is significant for ITN. Because reading the proposed blurbs at face value, that significance is not really clear to those who currenty oppose or who are non-American Wikipedians. That is a bad sign. A more lengthy blurb would thus be required to include this level of detail--much longer than what would normally be on ITN I'm afraid. Zzyzx11 (talk) 02:13, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- As someone who, not to toot own horn but, would judge myself pretty knowledgeable regarding US politics and government (hey ask me what I got on the AP US History exam
), a simple "Joe Biden, the incumbent president, withdraws from the 2024 election" is completely fine and accurately descriptive. Omit needless words: one important property of a blurb is it's supposed to be brief. Folks he is not going to now mount a new third party campaign (and if he actually does, we can blurb that as well if it gets sufficient news attention). If readers want more details that's why the links in the blurb are there, for said readers to follow to articles containing details. The links aren't there to just break up the monotony by splashing a little color around the text. - Unfortunately as generally occurs with any Potentially Controversial Topic where people have differing views (such as, what to write in sn ITN item), "consensus decision-making" fails here to bikeshedding: people express fifty different irreconcilable wishes of their own—there can only be one single blurb text and it's not going to be, every desired blurb all mashed together so everyone is happy—and thus without one or more people given power to make a binding decision, no one does anything and so status quo inertia "wins" by default. (And thus, all the people favoring that; "we should not do X and should do nothing" is a position just as much as "let's do X" is!) That is why every admin is cowering in a hole right now, because they all know if they post any blurb they will promptly have the anger of dozens of people displeased with their action trained upon them. Suggestion: perhaps a panel of three or so admins ought to take on making a decision on this ITM candidate, and all providing their rationale somewhere in public. Slowking Man (talk) 02:54, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Well, not every admin (he writes after posting the article and reading the comments that came in after he started writing the rationale). But normalizing panels may not be a bad idea. Ed [talk] [OMT] 03:22, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Timing is a key factor in a vast majority of news, is it not? The reason for notability is time. Comparing to 1968, as mentioned previously, LBJ dropped out months before the Democratic Party's nominating convention. That's news, but is the sort of "interparty politics" that we wouldn't post here. But it's really not interparty politics when we can reasonably conclude that whoever is nominated by the Democrats was/is going to finish at least 2nd, possibly 1st in the election. This has the potential to be a massive shake-up, and at minimum is not something that has happened before. DarkSide830 (talk) 03:00, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- As someone who, not to toot own horn but, would judge myself pretty knowledgeable regarding US politics and government (hey ask me what I got on the AP US History exam
- Strong support This is front-page news for Le Monde, The Guardian, the Sydney Morning Herald, the BBC and El Pais, and those are the only ones I bothered to check. All of them are running this as their main story. People saying that this is internal party politics in one country are missing the point. This is a momentous occasion in world politics, not just American politics. MAINEiac4434 (talk) 02:15, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support The section is called In The News, and not just is this in the news, it IS the news, period. Everyone saying "internal US politics" is ignoring the fact that it's the top story everywhere else on Earth, too. -- Kicking222 (talk) 02:17, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose In the end what matters is who wins the election. Call the scenario where Biden does not withdraw and Trump wins "Scenario A". Biden withdraws now, and (presumably) Harris becomes nominee. Trump wins anyway. Would the result be different from Scenario A? If not, then I don't see why this is worth posting. Banedon (talk) 02:30, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support A very unusual and important event that is front page news almost everywhere. Noah, BSBATalk 02:40, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted a shortened alt6: In my view, the arguments that support posting this news have made much stronger points than those in opposition. I was particularly swayed by those who pointed out that Biden's decision has had truly substantial global coverage in some of the world's largest news outlets thanks to its ability to impact a large number of countries, all of which speak to WP:ITNSIGNIF. I would also highlight Slowking Man's ruminations about WP:ITNPURPOSE and how it relates to this story. Conversely, I did not see as many strong arguments in opposition—especially from those who opposed this based on it relating to a single country, which contravenes a very explicit bullet point in WP:ITNDONT. In addition to all that, while this is a consensus-gathering discussion, the pure numbers approach 2:1 in support (I counted 73 supports, including the nominator, vs. 34 opposes; please forgive me if I'm off by one or two.) Finally, the article currently has a single clarification needed tag, which is not major enough to prevent posting. Ed [talk] [OMT] 03:16, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- To the blurb itself: I shortened it to focus on Biden withdrawing from the entire campaign, as that got the news across without what I saw as unnecessary complexity. It could also be rephrased along the lines of our article and say that he "withdraws from the 2024 presidential election" rather than ending his campaign. I have no objection to any modification proposals here if soon, or please send them to WP:ERRORS if later. Ed [talk] [OMT] 03:16, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Admin comment – I've cast my eye over the discussion a couple of hours back but work pulled me back from looking at WP. I had come to the same conclusion as you, The ed17. Schwede66 03:54, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Schwede66: Wondered about that. Thanks for adding the image to WP:CMP while casting! Ed [talk] [OMT] 03:56, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, I posted the image within half an hour of the announcement. It seemed rather probable to me that this would gain support. Schwede66 04:04, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, sorry and my bad. I'd only looked at the username when curious about who added the image and figured this was the other half of the story! Ed [talk] [OMT] 04:13, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, I posted the image within half an hour of the announcement. It seemed rather probable to me that this would gain support. Schwede66 04:04, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Schwede66: Wondered about that. Thanks for adding the image to WP:CMP while casting! Ed [talk] [OMT] 03:56, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Given the number of people that are not regulars on ITN boards (in other words, drawn here by popularity of the topic), voting counting is the last thing we should be doing. We also (as being discussed on the talk page) do not use the weight or breadth of coverage to make decisions of what ITN should post, in part being we are not newspapers and have a different emphasis on what is encyclopedically important, not what is important on the spot moment as the news media does.
This whole situation is part of how broken WP is when it comes to NOTNEWS. We are meant to summarize, not detail, the news, and the fact that these articles have so much excessive on-the-spot detail, and the wide push to support this with claims that it is likely going to be important, is not how we should be writing the encyclopedia, nor the type of topics we should be featuring at ITN. It's why its stressed that ITN is not a news ticker, and that we have to keep fighting against systematic bias, of which this situation is a clear case that that was flat out ignored by most !voters. (several of the opposes are in this direction). — Masem (t) 04:09, 22 July 2024 (UTC)- @Masem: WP:ITNSIGNIF has four bullet points under "other principles may be helpful" that influenced my read of the support !votes. I'd also note that there's no rule around who can participate at ITN, as this isn't Esperanza. Ed [talk] [OMT] 04:47, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- If we don't count votes and we don't use width or breadth of coverage, then what else we could use as criteria? BilboBeggins (talk) 07:43, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- "in part being we are not newspapers and have a different emphasis on what is encyclopedically important, not what is important on the spot moment as the news media does" — but isn't decision on who will be running that most likely changes the outcome of president election in the most influential country in the world encyclopedically important? BilboBeggins (talk) 07:46, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- To the blurb itself: I shortened it to focus on Biden withdrawing from the entire campaign, as that got the news across without what I saw as unnecessary complexity. It could also be rephrased along the lines of our article and say that he "withdraws from the 2024 presidential election" rather than ending his campaign. I have no objection to any modification proposals here if soon, or please send them to WP:ERRORS if later. Ed [talk] [OMT] 03:16, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Pull – "Incumbent does not seek reelection" who cares? This happens all the time in all parts of the world. Not remotely ITN worthy. 5225C (talk • contributions) 03:26, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- To consider that:
- Most incumbents that does not seek reelection does not start by seeking reelection and then withdrawing 3 months before the due date,
- That actually doesn't happen as often as one might think. I don't recall any of the G20 member states having a similar thing in recent memory, at least those with Presidential systems.
- Let's be real, the President of the United States is just more influential and significant than almost any other state. If Xi Jinping suddenly declares he won't seek a fourth term a few months before the CPC Congress or if Narendra Modi suddenly announces he won't be running for reelection in his seat, that will also be posted.
- Juxlos (talk) 03:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- To consider that:
- Pull The impact of Biden not running for the presidency is the same as him not being elected. We should post only when someone is being elected into the office. – robertsky (talk) 03:27, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Why? Honest query. Is it a principle of ITN, apparently unstated, that, "ITN does not post any events relating to heads of govt other than the (re)election of an occupant, no matter how many readers might care"? (I presume it's implied that the death, resignation, or removal of a current occupant would also qualify.) Could you elaborate on how that relates to the purpose of ITN, which is things such as,
To help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news
? Thank you ahead of time for responding; I appreciate hearing others share their views, even if we may not agree entirely. Slowking Man (talk) 05:33, 22 July 2024 (UTC)- When it comes to elections, what ITN cares is who is occupying the office next. Him pulling out is as good as not the person going to be occupying the office in the next four years. Other than the announcement are there any impact in the next 4 months before the next person takes over from this that we know of at the moment? No. – robertsky (talk) 05:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Okay again, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to ask, where is this statement of principle found, exactly:
what ITN cares is who is occupying the office next
? A text search of WP:ITN for "election", "politic", and "office" finds (excluding the current ITN blurbs) two occurences of "election", both in this paragraph:Opposing a specific story merely because one opposes all stories of that type (such as elections, or sports, or disasters) do not often generate agreement from the community. This also holds true for arguments based on similar stories which have coincidentally appeared recently, such as multiple elections on the same day, etc. Please assess and comment on the merits of each story on its own accord, not in relation to other similar stories.
I'm afraid I don't find where that ITN principle is stated. Could you help me here? (Also, this is in fact relevant towho is occupying the office next
, is it not? This means it is all-but-certain to be someone other than Biden.) Slowking Man (talk) 07:16, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Okay again, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to ask, where is this statement of principle found, exactly:
- When it comes to elections, what ITN cares is who is occupying the office next. Him pulling out is as good as not the person going to be occupying the office in the next four years. Other than the announcement are there any impact in the next 4 months before the next person takes over from this that we know of at the moment? No. – robertsky (talk) 05:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Why? Honest query. Is it a principle of ITN, apparently unstated, that, "ITN does not post any events relating to heads of govt other than the (re)election of an occupant, no matter how many readers might care"? (I presume it's implied that the death, resignation, or removal of a current occupant would also qualify.) Could you elaborate on how that relates to the purpose of ITN, which is things such as,
- Post-posting support Clear consensus to post. Worldwide front-page news. Pats2017(talk) — Preceding undated comment added 03:30, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-posting support per IAR. I would like the blurb to be reworded though; you campaign for president (more accurately, for election as president), not for the presidential election. Davey2116 (talk) 03:44, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Does the wording "... withdraws from the 2024 presidential election" work, Davey2116? (It aligns with our withdrawal article, at least.) Ed [talk] [OMT] 03:55, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yep, that works. Sorry to be pedantic like this! Davey2116 (talk) 03:58, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Davey2116: No apologies needed. Wikipedia is literally built on incremental and often pedantic improvements. :-) Ed [talk] [OMT] 04:13, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yep, that works. Sorry to be pedantic like this! Davey2116 (talk) 03:58, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-posting support While I understand some may be concerned about bias towards U.S. news, the outcome of the U.S. election has a clear and significant international effect, unlike elections in nearly every other country. An incumbent U.S. president pulling out of the race, at this point, is historic and deserves a blurb. Biden's health has dominated the news for weeks, resulting in today's announcement, which is of course the top story around the world. Johndavies837 (talk) 04:01, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-posting support. As I said earlier this has not happened since 1968 with Johnson (50 YEARS). Politics is what shapes the world and it dictates laws and alliances. If we can post a blurb about a guy from Vietnam who most people under 30 haven't heard about, then we can post about Joe. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 05:08, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-posting support, very rare, very consequential, very in the news. starship.paint (RUN) 05:59, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-posting support. This changes course of presidential campaign, and most likely the outcome, which in iftrslf influences world politics. This is the top news now. To arguments about Argentina and other countries not getting blurb — if you had proposed it then, maybe it would have been considered. And USA presidential campaign is unlike others, it basically lasts two years and withdrawing as soon before formal announcement of being nominated, and indeed before election is very notable. BilboBeggins (talk) 06:05, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Pull – There is no way an equivalent event in any other country would be posted here. HiLo48 (talk) 07:29, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- What would be the equivalent event in other country though? Would it generate reaction from world leaders? [9] BilboBeggins (talk) 07:39, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-posting support. Agree with the argument for posting this. It is difficult to apply the 'normal' rules in this sort of election cycle and these sorts of times. Carcharoth (talk) 07:41, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
July 20
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July 20, 2024 (Saturday)
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Article: Jill Schary Robinson (talk · history · tag)
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Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter, Deadline Hollywood
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:3420:4068:EDB2:C7B8 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Yudit26 (talk · give credit), MusicFan05 (talk · give credit) and Jkaharper (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American author and journalist. 240F:7A:6253:1:3420:4068:EDB2:C7B8 (talk) 04:34, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Uncited statements and works section. Bremps... 16:27, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- No improvements over the past couple of days. Time is running out for this nom. --PFHLai (talk) 15:08, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Jerry Miller
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Article: Jerry Miller (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NME
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NME
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:FD3A:405B:E09:AEC3 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by That Article Editing Guy (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Founding member of Moby Grape. 240F:7A:6253:1:FD3A:405B:E09:AEC3 (talk) 14:36, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose there are some paragraphs ending without a footnote, there is one orange tag and discography section needs sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 18:49, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- No improvements over the past few days. Time is running out for this nom. --PFHLai (talk) 15:06, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) 2024 Israeli strikes on Yemen
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: 2024 Israeli strikes on Yemen (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Israel conducts airstrikes on military sites of the Houthi movement near Hudaydah Port in Yemen. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Military sites of the Houthi movement are struck by Israeli airstrikes in response to an attack the day prior.
News source(s): NYTimes CNN Al Jazeera
Credits:
Notable escalation of the Red Sea crisis. Article is fairly well developed and well sourced. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 18:01, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
Blurb: Israel conducts airstrikes on military sites of the Houthi movement near Hudaydah Port in Yemen. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Military sites of the Houthi movement are struck by Israeli airstrikes in response to an attack the day prior.
News source(s): NYTimes CNN Al Jazeera
Credits:
- Nominated by Flemmish Nietzsche (talk · give credit)
- Created by Galamore (talk · give credit)
- Wait to see if it leads to any further escalation - if not, this doesn’t seem too different than the Israeli retaliation after the Iranian drone attack, which ended up being the end of things with that, and that wasn’t posted either. The Kip (contribs) 18:22, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- The Houthis did escalate it by striking back, just not in a major way, and the one missile they shot got struck down. [10] Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 16:25, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support: in terms of WP:NEWSORG. QalasQalas (talk) 19:10, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- ??? NEWSORG relates to if a source is reliable, not if an event is notable. The Kip (contribs) 19:51, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- @The Kip, Reuters Associated Press cited. QalasQalas (talk) 21:37, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- I’m not sure if I follow - just because a news source reports on something doesn’t make it ITN-worthy. The Kip (contribs) 21:43, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- @The Kip, Reuters Associated Press cited. QalasQalas (talk) 21:37, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- ??? NEWSORG relates to if a source is reliable, not if an event is notable. The Kip (contribs) 19:51, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait for further developments. ArkHyena (talk) 20:31, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Major, immoral and an illegal act of aggression. Kasperquickly (talk) 23:58, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- For the third time in the last few weeks, the personal commentary is entirely unnecessary. The Kip (contribs) 00:04, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait, leaning oppose We should wait to see how things pan out but unless something major happens, I would be opposing this nomination. PrinceofPunjabTALK 06:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait Unless the Houthis respond in a major way, this is covered by ongoing. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - Major escalation and a first-time event. Jusdafax (talk) 18:24, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support since spillover of the Israel-Hamas War is not currently covered by ongoing. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 06:03, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- strong oppose already covered with 2 pages including timeline not need to add more pages for one conflict. Shadow4dark (talk) 07:08, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Leaning Oppose as per Gödel2200's point. Khuft (talk) 19:33, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
July 19
edit|
July 19, 2024 (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Science and technology
|
(Posted) RD: Ray Reardon
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Article: Ray Reardon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky News
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky News
Credits:
- Nominated by Fats40boy11 (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Welsh professional snooker player and six time world champion. Fats40boy11 (talk) 11:45, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support an FA, so there should be no prose/sourcing concerns. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:58, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support FA quality, no issues. Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:03, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support with a heavy heart. Absolute icon of mine. Quality is great, might take some time to get over. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 12:31, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ready it is an FA, ready to be posted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:05, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. Thryduulf (talk) 16:06, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Kevan Gosper
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Article: Kevan Gosper (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): 7News
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): 7News
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:B4E6:BF25:CCA1:9374 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Bryan Krippner (talk · give credit) and Normantas Bataitis (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Australian sprinter and IOC administrator. 240F:7A:6253:1:B4E6:BF25:CCA1:9374 (talk) 09:03, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose IOC section needs more sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:06, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Sheila Jackson Lee
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Article: Sheila Jackson Lee (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Announcement via her official Twitter, CNN
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Announcement via her official Twitter, CNN
Credits:
- Nominated by The Kip (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Spencer (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American congressional representative from Houston. Will update with a proper news source once available - CNN reported it live just minutes ago. The Kip (contribs) 03:01, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support: A remarkable woman who dedicated her life to public service. Article is also updated with sufficient quality. Tofusaurus (talk) 03:47, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support an impactful and long-serving member of the United States congress. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:29, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Supporrt Blurb, shes an incumbent congresswomen Lukt64 (talk) 06:32, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- With all due respect, barring maybe the sitting House Speaker, a single congressperson doesn’t come particularly close to the level of a blurb. The Kip (contribs) 07:09, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article looks good. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Assignments and memberships need references. Stephen 09:13, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait Assignments and Caucus memberships need references and Eulogies section needs to be sorted out. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:12, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Have added more refs. SpencerT•C 03:46, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Referencing now adequate. SpencerT•C 03:47, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Unreferenced date of birth. Schwede66 05:37, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ref added. SpencerT•C 14:03, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 23:50, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Iryna Farion
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Article: Iryna Farion (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Kyiv Independent
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Kyiv Independent
Credits:
- Nominated by Gödel2200 (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Ukrainian politician who was assassinated in Lviv. Gödel2200 (talk) 02:19, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
Comment 1 statement needs citations; once that statement is either sourced or removed, then this can be posted. Jaguarnik (talk) 02:42, 20 July 2024 (UTC)Support all statements have been provided with a statement. The article should be good to go.Jaguarnik (talk) 05:33, 20 July 2024 (UTC)- Support Article looks good. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:16, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 09:15, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Toumani Diabaté
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Article: Toumani Diabaté (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Point
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Point
Credits:
- Nominated by Mooonswimmer (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Mooonswimmer 22:46, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
OpposeSupportA few unsourced statements and typical of musicians, the discography is uncited.Citations added. yorkshiresky (talk) 07:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose few cn tags needs to be sorted out. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:13, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- I've sorted out two, just one left in the discography section. Mooonswimmer 20:44, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Several {cn} tags remaining, including one for his DoB. --PFHLai (talk) 19:44, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- I've sourced that and took care of another missing citation as well. Mooonswimmer 20:41, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, probably the most famous Malian musician in the world. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 06:01, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 00:36, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) ICJ case on Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories
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Article: ICJ case on Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: The International Court of Justice finds the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories to be a violation of international law. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian Reuters Haaretz
Credits:
Article updated
Blurb: The International Court of Justice finds the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories to be a violation of international law. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian Reuters Haaretz
Credits:
- Nominated by Boud (talk · give credit)
- Created by Sakiv (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Nishidani (talk · give credit), Boud (talk · give credit) and Buidhe (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Boud (talk) 22:32, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support as the court noted, this ruling has significance beyond Israel and Palestine (t · c) buidhe 23:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article looks good. Very notable indeed. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability, notable and far beyond the scope of the ongoing war (the request for the case was registered by the ICJ in January 2023). I'm afraid the "Reactions" section might be a bit too unbalanced, as the vast majority of the people quoted are Israeli politicians. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 01:41, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support for notability and international significance. ArkHyena (talk) 01:51, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability particularly because the ruling says Israel
"should put an end to its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, desist from creating new settlements, and evacuate those already established."
Currently, the formatting of the reactions section is suboptimal, and should be broken into subsections; for example, see the South Africa's genocide case against Israel article. Gödel2200 (talk) 01:57, 20 July 2024 (UTC) - Support per above. BilledMammal (talk) 02:03, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability and quality. --NoonIcarus (talk) 02:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Somewhat oppose on quality only - the "Oral Presentation" and "Reactions" sections, as typical, are just lists of any thrown reaction to this ruling and should be neither trying to be complete nor simply presented as a list. The Oral Presentations should likely be made into a narrative to describe the major points made by the countries as a group, for example, not how each country presented. Also, if we can indicate that this is a non-binding verdict (because Israel, nor the US for that matter have signed onto the ICJ recognition) in the blurb, that would be helpful. --Masem (t) 02:44, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support per all above. The Kip (contribs) 02:57, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support And for once I have no concern with the list-y sections. The first is a part of the court proceedings, right? And it's well-written even if it looks like flag soup from a glance. The reactions is not the best, but it's less "X from Country said thoughts and prayers" and more relevant people reflecting on material consequences. Do I like the bullet layout for the reactions? Not particularly, but (even considering the page protection) it seems like a valid way to stop that section becoming a repository for unsubstantial responses. Kingsif (talk) 03:24, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- the problem with the court proceedings is that we don't normally document cases to that level. When and where they happened, sure, and the broad scope of the arguments, but just listing what each country said without further context is not really helpful. — Masem (t) 04:15, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Nominal support: Significant ruling from the ICJ, but as we did not post previous ICJ rulings on the conflict, I am not sure whether there is a precedent for posting this either. Tofusaurus (talk) 03:54, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- The most recent ICJ case proposed for posting was the South Africa v Israel genocide case in January, but iirc that was a preliminary ruling and was also considerably more weak in content (basically politely asked Israel to not commit genocidal acts, and politely asked Hamas to release the hostages), so it ultimately didn't develop consensus to post. By comparison, this is a far more concrete ruling, and this case has been running since long before the war broke out anyways. The Kip (contribs) 05:06, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support per all above MAL MALDIVE (talk) 06:56, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose As Israel
isn'tis part of this system and the court has no way to enforce its rulings, the impact should be as minimal as when anotheruninvolvedparty declares as much. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:15, 20 July 2024 (UTC)- Israel is in fact part of the United Nations system. Neljack (talk) 02:12, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, I got it confused with the ICC. Sorry. On paper, all UN members are encouraged to obey this court. InedibleHulk (talk) 14:01, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Israel is in fact part of the United Nations system. Neljack (talk) 02:12, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 09:19, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Jag1762010 (talk) 22:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted blurb) RD/Blurb: Nguyen Phu Trong
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Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: General Secretary and former President of Vietnam Nguyễn Phú Trọng dies at the age of 80. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:
- Nominated by Mooonswimmer (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Inclusion Activist (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mooonswimmer (talk • contribs) 12:06, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Blurb
Support RD, he had been General Secretary of the Vietnamese Communist Party since 2011. World leaders are definitely notable enough 5.57.241.186 (talk) 12:18, 19 July 2024 (UTC) - Support RD While one unsourced statement remains, that shouldn't hold up the article going to RD. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:59, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose The China section is unsourced. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:35, 19 July 2024 (UTC)- I've edited that section and added the sources. Inclusion Activist (talk) 13:13, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Blurb
Support RD, he was the most powerful leader in Vietnam, and argubaly one of the most influential since the country's reunification. He was also the only leader to have hosted Biden, Putin and Xi this year. --Inclusion Activist (talk) 12:53, 19 July 2024 (UTC) - Blurb due to his notability as (former Vietnamese president until 2021 and as) General Secretary until today, being the highest-ranking leader and basically holding the power in the country. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 13:11, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Nothing in the article suggests why he would be a major figure. Just simply holding a major political position is not sufficient for this determination. We need details of how he was influential and the like. — Masem (t) 14:36, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- "During his tenure, Trọng pursued a wide anti-corruption campaign, implicating numerous senior officials to a degree unprecedented in Vietnamese political history. His foreign policy, known as "bamboo diplomacy", sought to balance Vietnam's relations with both the United States and China. Trọng is considered one of the most influential Vietnamese leaders since Hồ Chí Minh." Directly from the article's lead. Have you read it, per chance? 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 14:38, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- If that is truly that significant (and it could be, I don't know), there should be far more commentary around this topic, typically in a type of Legacy or Impact section though it doesn't necessarily need to be there. It cannot be just a demonstration of a factual account of his role in the government. — Masem (t) 16:56, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
"Just simply holding a major political position is not sufficient for this determination."
Haven't we always blurbed world leaders, though? Trong led his country of over 100 million people for 13 years, and his governance was evidently consequential. Kurtis (talk) 00:37, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- "During his tenure, Trọng pursued a wide anti-corruption campaign, implicating numerous senior officials to a degree unprecedented in Vietnamese political history. His foreign policy, known as "bamboo diplomacy", sought to balance Vietnam's relations with both the United States and China. Trọng is considered one of the most influential Vietnamese leaders since Hồ Chí Minh." Directly from the article's lead. Have you read it, per chance? 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 14:38, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Nothing in the article suggests why he would be a major figure. Just simply holding a major political position is not sufficient for this determination. We need details of how he was influential and the like. — Masem (t) 14:36, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD Considering the position of General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam is the powerful leadership position in Vietnam and under his tenure witnessed the increase of international standing of Vietnam when it comes to diplomacy such as the country's relations between superpowers like China, Russia and the United States. Toadboy123 (talk) 16:22, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb Not every world leader should receive one. Not ready for RD as it needs some sources and MOS:SANDWICH issues to be resolved. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:52, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- CN's have been resolved. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 18:15, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb I think any incumbent world leader that dies in office should be blurbed. Article looks good and IMO two cn tags shouldn't prevent it from getting posted. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:56, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Succession What matters most is the person that is in charge now. According to the Reuters report, President Tô Lâm has now assumed those duties in an acting capacity, pending a party decision on what to do next. We should blurb both the death and handover together. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:08, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Fair point, the Sec. General in Vietnam is the position of power per List of current heads of state and government, and thus the position change is ITNR. — Masem (t) 18:11, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait I'm confused. The page lists general secretary as head of government, but Prime Minister of Vietnam says it is head of government? – Muboshgu (talk) 18:37, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- The PM of Vietnam article says that the PM is the head of govt. & the President of Vietnam article says that the President is the head of state, but neither of those positions is considered the most powerful official in Vietnam. The General Secretary article says that the General Secretary is the most powerful official in Vietnam (& that person is sometimes the President as well). Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:00, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- In communist countries, as communist party is the sole ruling party, the general secretary is in charge of running the party structures across the country while prime minister in general is responsible for running the cabinet and governmental ministries of the country - Toadboy123 (talk) 18:48, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait I'm confused. The page lists general secretary as head of government, but Prime Minister of Vietnam says it is head of government? – Muboshgu (talk) 18:37, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Fair point, the Sec. General in Vietnam is the position of power per List of current heads of state and government, and thus the position change is ITNR. — Masem (t) 18:11, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb As per above, also support posting his successor when the time comes, or adding to the blurb that Tô Lâm succeeds him as acting GS Sharrdx (talk) 19:21, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability Incumbent world leaders dying in office are pretty blurb-worthy. Bremps... 19:31, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb He was the most powerful leader in the country with a long tenure, serving from 2011 to 2024. He died in office which is pretty notable since he was serving a record-breaking third term. Vnsg304 (talk) 23:12, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb rare death that qualifies for blurb IMO. Death of de facto state leader has immediate political impacts. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 00:31, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb as de facto state leader dying in office. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 01:47, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted as blurb Stephen 02:05, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) July 2024 global cyber outages
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Article: July 2024 global cyber outages (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: A faulty software update causes global cyber outages. (Post)
News source(s): skynews
Credits:
Article updated
Blurb: A faulty software update causes global cyber outages. (Post)
News source(s): skynews
Credits:
- Nominated by Osunpokeh (talk · give credit)
- Created by Panamitsu (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Article hasn't been updated but if reporting accurate then this is definitely notable enough. Impacts include flight groundings and emergency phone services. [osunpokeh/talk/contributions] 07:35, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe worth creating a 2024 CrowdStrike outages article? [osunpokeh/talk/contributions] 07:36, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Looks to be at July 2024 global IT outages currently. Ionmars10 (talk) 07:37, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Alright we ball. Draft:2024 CrowdStrike outages [osunpokeh/talk/contributions] 07:41, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle, one of the largest IT outages in a long time (ever?) and causing clear issues all across the globe - the July 2024 global IT outages article however is not ready for posting. --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 07:44, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I think July 2024 global IT outages or 2024 CrowdStrike outages would be the appropriate target article. Plus, the CrowdStrike article is tagged and has some issues. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:49, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle Worthy of ITN for sure, but only issues on quality, as the article is short. Then again, at the time this comment is written, July 2024 global cyber outages article contains pretty much everything that is know about the issue, so... Melmann 08:46, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support a blurb for July 2024 global cyber outages - I suggested a simple one above, edits welcome. Sam Walton (talk) 08:58, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle per above comments. Mellk (talk) 09:03, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on significance, oppose on article quality The subject is definitely ITN-worthy, but the articles is not, being essentially just a poorly-curated list of specific individual impacts. Thryduulf (talk) 09:13, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support With airlines grounded and medical services restricted, this is huge. I've been expecting global dependence on the internet and such software to become an existential risk comparable with the pandemic and here we are. Picking up the pieces will take some time, the impact outweighs the uncertainty. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:30, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- left-pad taught us nothing, apparently. Bremps... 22:56, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, serious disruption covering a variety of industries worldwide and over 1,000 flights have been cancelled thus far. ―Panamitsu (talk) 09:44, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 10:06, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-post comment: Just so you know, I've added a few live-blogs on the article's talk page, so you can use them to help expand the page and make it less patchy than it currently looks. Oltrepier (talk) 10:22, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Article is not of great quality. Yes, it ticks the long-enough box, but its just listing events and has no real structure or narrative to it. This is not representive of how we normally write articles on news coverage for an encyclopedia. --Masem (t) 11:58, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment As pointed out above, the article is not of sufficient quality and mostly presents a list of individual impacts. This was another bad posting.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:27, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Pull Article quality is really bad. Can we revisit this in 12h+? Kcmastrpc (talk) 13:02, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Pull until article quality is improved. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 17:27, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-posting support Unsurprisingly the article has improved with lots of eyes on it and there is no need to pull now. Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:11, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- It still has the problem that it just making a list of incidents, now grouped by field than by country. These articles should be written far more narratively, not trying to describe each singular incident since this was a clear global problem. — Masem (t) 02:57, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Of course the article can be improved, but it is plainly not so bad that it has to be yanked immediately from the Main Page. Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:11, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- At this point I am not asking for a pull, but I think the way this article started and even presently is is a systemic problem of how we are not writing about current events in an encyclopedic style but instead just compiling every case without thought of a cohesive article that would be how we would have written about the same event if we were doing this ten years after the fact. This has become far too common and widespread and we need to be demanding a bit more editorial considerations rather just listifying parts of an event. Masem (t) 12:33, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Of course the article can be improved, but it is plainly not so bad that it has to be yanked immediately from the Main Page. Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:11, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- It still has the problem that it just making a list of incidents, now grouped by field than by country. These articles should be written far more narratively, not trying to describe each singular incident since this was a clear global problem. — Masem (t) 02:57, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: M. S. Valiathan
edit
Article: M. S. Valiathan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Eminent cardiac surgeon and MAHE's first Vice-Chancellor Dr M S Valiathan passes away
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Eminent cardiac surgeon and MAHE's first Vice-Chancellor Dr M S Valiathan passes away
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Pachu Kannan (talk · give credit)
- Updated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Added some references. Still there is manual of style tag in the article. Pachu Kannan (talk) 09:24, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article looks very much improved. Great work. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 19:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support article is in a good shape. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:15, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 14:27, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
July 18
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July 18, 2024 (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Arts and culture
Business and economy
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
|
(Posted) RD: Sarah Gibson (composer)
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Article: Sarah Gibson (composer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): pianospheres.org
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): pianospheres.org
Credits:
- Created and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American pianist and composer, one of her orchestral pieces was supposed to be played at the BBC Proms. 38. I tried to collect what I could find. Washington Post article is paywalled. First obit was dated 18 Jul, that's why I put her here. Help appreciated. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:26, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 01:07, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) Ursula von der Leyen is re-elected
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Ursula von der Leyen (pictured) is re-elected President of the European Commission (Post)
Alternative blurb: Ursula von der Leyen (pictured) is reelected President of the European Commission
News source(s): Politico BBC
Credits:
- Nominated by Alsoriano97 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
- Support on notability While not ITNR, the president of the European commission heads the executive branch of the EU, which I think is significant enough. The article currently has two cn's and an outdated tag. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Question While bold article is in a good shape, but have we ever posted the election of the President of the EU before, let alone re-election? PrinceofPunjabTALK 14:20, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, we posted her election in 2019. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- So, there is a precedent, therefore changing my vote to Support. Thank you @Gödel2200 for answering my query. PrinceofPunjabTALK 14:52, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, we posted her election in 2019. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Per Precedent In 2019, this was new news. New is "exciting", in theory ("unprecedented", if you're theoretically nasty). Diminishing returns, though, as "the beat goes on". InedibleHulk (talk) 16:00, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose ITN is not a newsticker. 2A02:908:676:E640:85EF:EB52:F945:7238 (talk) 19:39, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Theoretically support, but oppose for now b/c the “Controversy over COVID-19 vaccine deal” section has an orange tag.Support It’s important enough for a blurb & von der Leyen‘s article looks great now. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 00:42, 22 July 2024 (UTC)- @Blaylockjam10 I have hidden that section because it may violate the WP:BLP, inasmuch as she is not directly involved in the case and is not a direct party to the judicial process. Please, take a look at the article. Thanks. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:11, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Obviously more significant than the recently posted news from Nepal, Rwanda and Syria. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- The portrait would definitely make more sense, in context, than the currently posted smiley from Scranton. That's other stuff, though, and it exists. Not the best argument, historically. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support The most prominent direct outcome of the recent European elections. Khuft (talk) 19:38, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Stale This item has gone stale as the oldest item on the main page is from 19 July. But I've somehow lost my "close discussion" link so can't close this properly. Schwede66 02:42, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
(Closed) 2024 Nigerian general strike
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: 2024 Nigerian general strike (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: The Nigerian government and trade unions agree to a national minimum wage increase, concluding weeks of negotiations after a nationwide general strike. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters; Bloomberg; This Day
Credits:
Grnrchst (talk) 12:54, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
Blurb: The Nigerian government and trade unions agree to a national minimum wage increase, concluding weeks of negotiations after a nationwide general strike. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters; Bloomberg; This Day
Credits:
- Created and nominated by Grnrchst (talk · give credit)
- Oppose The article says that
"The country's national grid and its airports were shut down on 3 June 2024, as were banks, hospitals and schools...The following day, the NLC and TUC suspended the strike, pending talks with the government over raising the minimum wage."
, but it does not indicate that a situation like that was occurring at the time the deal was agreed upon. I think that this would only warrant a blurb if something at the scale of what was happening on 3 June was also happening at the time of the resolution. Gödel2200 (talk) 02:06, 20 July 2024 (UTC) - Oppose Strikes are rarely posted, and not sure what makes this one stand out. Besides, it's resolved now. Khuft (talk) 19:42, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
RD: Cheng Pei-pei
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Article: Cheng Pei-pei (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:D4D8:CC5F:57E2:43F2 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Dmhll (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Chinese actress. 240F:7A:6253:1:D4D8:CC5F:57E2:43F2 (talk) 02:39, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Filmography seems to be a common stumbling block. Bremps... 19:33, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose filmography is entirely unsourced. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:16, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Abner Haynes
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Article: Abner Haynes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC Sports
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC Sports
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:D4D8:CC5F:57E2:43F2 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Nohomersryan (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Member of the Chiefs Hall of Fame. 240F:7A:6253:1:D4D8:CC5F:57E2:43F2 (talk) 01:56, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Article needs ref work. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:15, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Professional career section's orange tag needs to be resolved. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:16, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Lou Dobbs
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Article: Lou Dobbs (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Newsweek
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Newsweek
Credits:
- Nominated by Natg 19 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Relatively good shape. Natg 19 (talk) 20:33, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
Weak oppose While article is in relatively good shape, there's ten cn tags.Support I've fixed the issues at hand. Article looks ready. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:15, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support I hated this man but his article is in a good shape. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not ready. There are two CN tags, the one about raising four children definitely needs addressing before it can be posted. Thryduulf (talk) 16:08, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Added reference for his 4 children. Natg 19 (talk) 16:22, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 00:52, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Bob Newhart
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Article: Bob Newhart (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter
Credits:
- Nominated by Natg 19 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Needs work, but a big name in entertainment.Natg 19 (talk) 20:03, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Regrettable oppose On quality. Article needs ref work. I would support a blurb once issues are fixed, but I feel that the article needs a legacy section or something to reflect the impact he had on the comedy world. Obits are calling him a legend and the "dean" of deadpan comedy. I'm sure something reflecting how he influenced a generation of comedians/had a massive impact on the comedy world would be beneficial. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:09, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not Ready Referencing is quite poor. This is going to need some work. [Side note: GOD DAMN IT!] -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:26, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support when Refs Updated A hair shy of a blurb. CoatCheck (talk) 20:41, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support I know him mainly from his original monologues which were often played on BBC Radio. It's easy to imagine a similar incredulous skit about Wikipedia – "and you let anyone edit it!?" The article is fine - mostly the usual busywork remains but that's not significant. I have clarified that his famous stammer was natural, not affected, and that's the sort of detail that actually matters. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:59, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not ready. This is still orange tagged with many explicit inline CN tags and unmarked unsourced paragraphs. Thryduulf (talk)
- I'm open to a blurb (if the article is improved) as someone who reached the pinnacle of their profession. Per the NYT, Newhart "basically invented the stand-up special" and had a eponymous comedy TV show whose finale is still "viewed as one of the greatest finales in television history", so much so that the NYT ran an separate article about it after Newhart's death. Ed [talk] [OMT] 18:22, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, although somebody citeneeded-bombed the page. Randy Kryn (talk) 05:31, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose outstanding number of cn tags needs to be resolved, Although, I would have been okay with a blurb but article's quality won't allow it. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:20, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality. Will only support an RD once it's in good shape. - SchroCat (talk) 19:51, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Fresia Saavedra
edit
Article: Fresia Saavedra (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): El Universo
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): El Universo
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:08, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support It's a bit on the short end, but there are no issues with the content in the article. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:06, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support article looks ready indeed. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:19, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 14:26, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
July 17
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July 17, 2024 (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Arts and culture
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
Health and environment
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Science and technology
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RD: Pat Williams (basketball)
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Article: Pat Williams (basketball) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS Sports
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS Sports
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:D4D8:CC5F:57E2:43F2 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by HopalongCasualty (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
NBA executive and co-founder of the Orlando Magic. 240F:7A:6253:1:D4D8:CC5F:57E2:43F2 (talk) 01:56, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- not ready There are several outstanding citation needed tags. Thryduulf (talk) 09:19, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose several cn tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:22, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Bernice Johnson Reagon
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Article: Bernice Johnson Reagon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NPR
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NPR
Credits:
- Nominated by Thriley (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Thriley (talk) 01:50, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not ready, numerous citation needed tags. Staraction (talk | contribs) 01:56, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not ready same issues remain. Bremps... 19:34, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose several cn tags and lede needs to be rewritten. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:22, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
2024 Bangladesh quota reform movement
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Article: 2024 Bangladesh quota reform movement (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: In Bangladesh, protests against the reinstatement of the Quota system of Bangladesh Civil Service leave six people dead. (Post)
News source(s): Gulf News
Credits:
Blurb: In Bangladesh, protests against the reinstatement of the Quota system of Bangladesh Civil Service leave six people dead. (Post)
News source(s): Gulf News
Credits:
- Nominated by Gödel2200 (talk · give credit)
Ongoing protests in Bangladesh. The article needs some copyediting, and currently has an empty section. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:57, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Despite a frowned-upon gallery section, the article seem alright for mainpage posting. Seems major. Bremps... 19:04, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. I agree with you on both points. 64.114 etc 19:18, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, the protests seem to be growing in both size and violence. Article looks solid enough. The Kip (contribs) 19:49, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. The Kip has a point to this. Solid article, growing protests. 209.121.102.221 (talk) 20:29, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak oppose Article is tagged with a copy editing tag. Will support once it's addressed. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:31, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose for now until something substantial happens. Protests are commonplace in every corner of the world and are not automatically ITN-worthy. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- I mean, six people died. Hundreds are wounded. Bremps... 21:45, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose for now Not the best prose and poorly formatted. Of dubious notability for ITN Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 02:53, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support – The copyedit tag is a bit of a problem, but I think the article is in a good state overall. I think the correct date for this is probably July 16, when the Chhatra League fired on university students. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 07:27, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support clearly important to a lot of people Kasperquickly (talk) 09:21, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Important and well-cited article. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 09:59, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality. Apart from a lot of poor prose, there are uncited statements (some contentious) together with a lot of "he said, she said" material which doesn't appear to match the sources. For example, the sentence
In light of these events, the Prime Minister questioned the education of the protesters and described their behaviour as "very regrettable"
is sourced to this, so the first part of the sentence is synthesis from the source, and the words "very regrettable" don't appear at all. Or this sectionIn the early hours of 16 July, at around 12:15 am, members of the Chhatra League attacked Jahangirnagar University students using firearms
is sourced to this in which firearms aren't mentioned. And this is just a couple of the English sources I've looked at, not being able to read Bengali which makes up at least half of the sources. Black Kite (talk) 10:19, 18 July 2024 (UTC) - Over 100 deaths[2], total mobile internet shutdown, 7.5 million Bangladeshi diaspora can’t communicate with their relatives, they have no connection with their family and beloved one, don’t know even if they are death or alive, [3] military curfew imposed [4] [5]!! We guys can wait and carry on other best/important things!! Pathetic world!! 2A0A:A546:7913:0:A5AA:AB38:D931:A81D (talk) 05:41, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Obviously these events are important, but we only post articles that are also in good shape. Please see WP:ITN. Staraction (talk | contribs) 20:16, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality while it is no doubt newsworthy due to it's impact and massive death toll, the article is a mess. It has multiple orange tags, timeline section needs to be rewritten and Gallery section needs captions. PrinceofPunjabTALK 14:56, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: David Morrow (commentator)
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Article: David Morrow (commentator) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): 9News
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): 9News
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:A573:E493:327E:FFAE (talk · give credit)
- Created by Aussiesportlibrarian (talk · give credit)
- Updated by RayneBlox (talk · give credit) and LibStar (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Australian sports commentator. 240F:7A:6253:1:A573:E493:327E:FFAE (talk) 13:02, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support article is in good shape with no CN tags. Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 05:54, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- I suggest that his death should appear in the body of the article and once that's done, this is good to go. Schwede66 02:06, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 02:19, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) Muscat mosque shooting
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: 2024 Muscat mosque shooting (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: A mass shooting at a mosque in Muscat, Oman, leaves nine people dead and more than thirty others injured. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Al Jazeera, Reuters, AP News, France 24
Credits:
Ainty Painty (talk) 04:32, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
Blurb: A mass shooting at a mosque in Muscat, Oman, leaves nine people dead and more than thirty others injured. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Al Jazeera, Reuters, AP News, France 24
Credits:
- Nominated by Ainty Painty (talk · give credit)
- Created by TheLibyanGuy (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Borgenland (talk · give credit)
- Support on notability such incidents are rare occurrence in Oman and majority of deaths are of foreign citizens therefore it is notable but article currently needs a bit expansion. PrinceofPunjabTALK 05:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability I agree with the Prince of Punjab. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:1441:FA7C:FF75:8B58 (talk) 06:01, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
Support; it is sure agreeable that rare occurrences are notable for being rare.2605:8D80:325:ABB8:9C9B:AB1E:5AFC:DE95 (talk) 06:03, 17 July 2024 (UTC)Incoherent rationale. Struck through. Bremps... 19:07, 17 July 2024 (UTC)- What’s with the sudden increase in these oddly-worded/near-nonsensical votes popping up on ITN/C lately? This is at least the fourth or fifth vote I’ve seen from an IP in the last few weeks that could’ve conceivably been AI-generated. The Kip (contribs) 07:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's... weird. I don't think it's AI, but I'm far from certain. Kicking222 (talk) 13:41, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- What’s with the sudden increase in these oddly-worded/near-nonsensical votes popping up on ITN/C lately? This is at least the fourth or fifth vote I’ve seen from an IP in the last few weeks that could’ve conceivably been AI-generated. The Kip (contribs) 07:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support even though the article does need a bit of an expansion. 64.114 etc 06:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality as target article’s barely longer than a stub. Weak support on notability, given the rarity of such attacks in Oman. The Kip (contribs) 07:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality due to the length of the article. Also, the article should make it clear that these events are rare in Oman. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:59, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- I have attempted to make that clear on the article. Bte3000 (talk) 16:18, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Should mention in the blurb that this is the first instance of ISIS launching an attack in Oman. Bremps... 19:32, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality 15:56, 17 July 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bte3000 (talk • contribs)
- Support on notability, with no comment on quality (haven't read the article yet). Oman is arguably the most peaceful country in the Middle East, so a massacre there—especially if it was done by ISIS or any other terrorist organization—is highly notable. Kurtis (talk) 02:08, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Who, what, where, when, why and how are answered. It'd be best if we mention that Oman has never suffered an ISIS attack before. Bremps... 02:52, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. The mosque is not notable. None of the people involved are notable. There have yet to be any demonstrated widespread societal effects. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 06:41, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose The article does not do a good job of explaining this in context. The fact that the attack took place in Oman does not seem significant as this is not a secular political issue. It seems to be a traditional expression of religious sectarian violence which goes back centuries. See Terrorist attacks during Ashura. Insofar as ISIS was involved, this makes it common rather than rare. See List of terrorist incidents in 2024 in which the count for ISIS seems to be about 11 for the year so far. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:18, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
(Posted) 2024 Rwandan general election
edit.jpg)
Blurb: Paul Kagame (pictured) is re-elected to a fourth term in the 2024 Rwandan general election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: In an election criticized for being unfair, Paul Kagame (pictured) is re-elected to a fourth term as president and the Rwanda Patriotic Front and allied parties win a majority in the parliament.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
- Nominated by Staraction (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Borgenland (talk · give credit), HapHaxion (talk · give credit) and Number 57 (talk · give credit)
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Staraction (talk | contribs) 00:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support if ready; generally, news items about general elections always go on the main page. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:54AB:165D:9F95:AB8B (talk) 00:41, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support The article appears to be of decent quality. Gödel2200 (talk) 00:52, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. It is of decent quality. 2605:8D80:325:ABB8:3CC8:AC81:81CB:8A (talk) 03:18, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. I agree with all of you. 64.114 etc 03:19, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article is of sufficient quality. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 03:25, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- This election is of... dubious, shall we say, fairness and the article does not fully reflect that reality. Bremps... 04:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- TLDR only two of the eight candidates who wanted to run against Kagame were allowed to run, and Kagame allegedly won 99% of the vote. Bremps... 04:37, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose This was a sham election and the article does not show that. Also, WP:ITNELECTIONS mentions
Changes in the holder of the office which administers the executive of their respective state/government
but he has been in his office for almost two and a half decades now. PrinceofPunjabTALK 04:49, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think this was marked as ITNR because it was a general election, not because it was a change in the executive. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:57, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- But the blurb have no mention of the parliamentary elections and mentions only the presidential one. PrinceofPunjabTALK 16:51, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- The current blurb mentions the general election as a whole, which includes both the parliamentary and presidential ones. It explicitly mentions the reelection of Kagame as he is the executive, but it certainly could also mention the results in the parliament. Gödel2200 (talk) 17:24, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- But the blurb have no mention of the parliamentary elections and mentions only the presidential one. PrinceofPunjabTALK 16:51, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think this was marked as ITNR because it was a general election, not because it was a change in the executive. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:57, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per PrinceofPunjab. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:45, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak oppose per PrinceOfPunjab. If it does end up posted, I’d support using the “announced as the winner of the election” wording we’ve had for previous elections of dubious fairness. The Kip (contribs) 07:07, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose, the article is still ITN/R as a general election, but the article does not mention the parliament's election results at all. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 07:53, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. While probably not "free and fair", the election did actually take place and the people did vote for Kagame, so this election is covered by ITN/R and we've generally always posted it in the past. It might be good for the "aftermath" section to mention any international organisations saying it wasn't free and fair, but I'm not sure there are any yet. No doubt when that happens, we can update the article but for now I think it's good to go. I've also updated the results to show the provisional figures for parliament. — Amakuru (talk) 08:40, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose we don't know how many people actually voted for Kagame. Significant election fraud is not out of the question. It would require sources to claim this election is different from the many sham elections held in Rwanda since 1994. (t · c) buidhe 23:43, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per PrinceofPunjab. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 09:43, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Article sort of explains why the election was not free and fair - i.e. real opponents of Kagame are barred from even standing in the first place, the other "candidates" are Government-approved ones to ensure the appearance of democracy - but it should be (and needs to be) a lot clearer. Currently a casual reader would assume that Kagame is enthusiastically backed by nearly 100% of the Rwandan population, whereas in reality the claim that turnout was 98% is ... fanciful. Black Kite (talk) 11:44, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support per Amakuru. Wikipedia gives cited facts so readers can draw their own conclusions. This article meets NPOV adequately already, and when more refs regarding its lack of fairness should come, those would be welcome too. Jiaminglimjm (talk) 15:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support per Amakuru, although I do believe the election was unfair it's still a election which was voted for. We should add sources saying if the election was fair or not when they come Sharrdx (talk) 15:45, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose -- unfair and unfree election is not ITNR. --RockstoneSend me a message! 20:17, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not presumed notable, but not necessarily non-notable. Bremps... 21:46, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Blaylockjam10 @Chaotic Enby @Andrew Davidson @PrinceofPunjab @Black Kite I've added more to the article hopefully demonstrating more critically the way the election was not free and fair. Let me know if the article still needs more work in that department. I've also updated the altblurb with more details & with slightly different wording (including the results of the parliamentary election). Let me know if that needs more work as well (in particular - is it too long for ITN standards?) Staraction (talk | contribs) 22:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Much better now. Bremps... 00:59, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's the blurb that's the issue rather than the article. Presenting this in a formulaic way is a false equivalence which misleads the reader. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:33, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Per norm, it's a national election. Scu ba (talk) 23:41, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb Although notable and the article is looking better, I oppose the current blurb per PrinceofPunjab and The Kip. The current blurb is misleading by omission. It misleads the reader into a sense of equivalency by using the same terminology we have used for actual free and fair elections. I do support altblurb. FlipandFlopped ツ 01:26, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability—A glorified referendum on Kagame's continued dictatorship it is, and the blurb should make this clear, but it's an actual election in a de jure "democracy". It merits a mention on the main page. Kurtis (talk) 02:04, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted, there's no section in the article on how it was not free or fair, Stephen 02:14, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-posting straw poll on changing it to "declared winner" This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 03:09, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- As stated above, I support this as the default when the election isn’t considered free/fair by RSes. The Kip (contribs) 03:25, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- As long as the article is updated to align to any wording that you want here. Stephen 03:51, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support "declared winner" I think the following is enough:
Bremps... 06:48, 18 July 2024 (UTC)The only three presidential candidates allowed to run were the same as from 2017, where Kagame won with more than 98% of the vote. DW described the election as a "re-run of the non-contest in 2017."[27] Amnesty International criticized the censorship of opposition in the race as having "a chilling effect and limits the space for debate for people of Rwanda". The Independent described the election as "widely criticised as unfair."[4]
- It's fine as is I would think. I'm not a fan of editorialising in blurbs, and while this argument comes up time and time again here for Russian, Rwandan and other elections I don't think we've ever deviated from the simple statement of who won and leaving the detail to the article. And therefore it would be wrong to carve out an exception for this specific case. If there's a prior precedent then please point it out to me. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 07:44, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- comment here's an easy solution, just mention the percentage of the vote (99%) that he got, that should tell everyone with an iq of above like 3 what that election was like Kasperquickly (talk) 09:21, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Won't work, since reporting isn't done. Well, "reporting". Bremps... 15:36, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
that should tell everyone with an iq of above like 3 what that election was like
- As you've been told before, quit it with the personalized commentary. The Kip (contribs) 19:25, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- For the Russian election, the blurb was
That’s still too weak for my taste & I’d write it as “announced as” instead of “announced to be”, but it’s better than the current blurb for the Rwandan election. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 00:02, 19 July 2024 (UTC)Vladimir Putin is announced to be the winner of the Russian presidential election, securing a fifth term.
- comment here's an easy solution, just mention the percentage of the vote (99%) that he got, that should tell everyone with an iq of above like 3 what that election was like Kasperquickly (talk) 09:21, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support "declared winner" I think the following is enough:
July 16
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July 16, 2024 (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Health and environment
International relations
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Politics and elections
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(Posted) RD: April Cantelo
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Article: April Cantelo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Telegraph
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Telegraph
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
English soprano who created many roles in new operas. The article was there, but referencing took time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:08, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Photo RD (second choice the usual) To opera fans, she may reasonably be more famous by face than name, like Shelley Duvall was to Hollywood musical fans. To everyone else, the photo conveys the rudimentary essence of an English soprano, now recently deceased (which is more than I can say for some portraits). Article looks fine, in the textual sense. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:27, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 23:45, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Peter Courtney
edit
Article: Peter Courtney (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Oregonian
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Oregonian
Credits:
- Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Connormah (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, article in good shape. Staraction (talk | contribs) 00:19, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support article is ready to be posted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 05:01, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted—Bagumba (talk) 22:09, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Joe Bryant
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Article: Joe Bryant (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Natg 19 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Kobe's father and professional player and coach. Needs some work. Natg 19 (talk) 16:52, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Article needs ref work, has some cn tags. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:08, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose at least three cn tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 04:52, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Added more refs, needs one for international coaching record, though perhaps that section could just be removed. Natg 19 (talk) 17:32, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Natg 19: I found a source for when he coached various Japanese teams & it mentions playoff results, but it doesn’t talk about his regular season record. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:00, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Jacques Boudet
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Article: Jacques Boudet (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Figaro
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Figaro
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:64A3:5EA7:A3BF:F045 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
French actor. 240F:7A:6253:1:64A3:5EA7:A3BF:F045 (talk) 09:30, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose the entire article has one source and that too of death, has very little prose and mostly a Listicle. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Article needs major work such as expansion and sourcing. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:05, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Still a stub with 130 words of prose, followed by huge tables of unsourced materials. Please expand the text and add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 19:47, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
July 15
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July 15, 2024 (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
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Sports
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(Posted) 2024 Syrian parliamentary election
edit.jpg)
Blurb: In Syria, Bashar al-Assad's (pictured) Ba'ath Party wins the 2024 Syrian parliamentary election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: In Syria, the Ba'ath Party (leader Bashar al-Assad pictured) is declared the winner of the parliamentary election
News source(s): AP/ABC Al Arabiya
Credits:
- Nominated by Scu ba (talk · give credit)
Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Was it a free and fair election, no, but it was still a national election and deserves a spot in the news per ITNR Scu ba (talk) 03:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support ALT with "declared winner" language as is consensus for dubious elections This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 04:13, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support alt per above. The Kip (contribs) 04:59, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose the picture of Assad who was not standing for election. If ITN/R requires some compulsory record of this rubber stamp process, then we only need the rubber stamp. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:12, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article is of sufficient quality for ITN. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 08:38, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Moved nomination to 15 July, which is when the election actually happened. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:32, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 00:45, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Peter Buxtun
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Article: Peter Buxtun (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): PBS NewsHour
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): PBS NewsHour
Credits:
- Nominated by Legoktm (talk · give credit)
- Updated by 2600:1700:1592:E5B0:948E:C789:FC6D:3850 (talk · give credit) and Connormah (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Whistleblower who revealed the Tuskegee syphilis experiment. He died back in May, but from what I can tell, it was reported in reliable sources on July 15. Legoktm (talk) 16:14, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support looks alright to me. PrinceofPunjabTALK 04:50, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 02:04, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Norm Hewitt
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Article: Norm Hewitt (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New Zealand Herald
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New Zealand Herald
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:3588:1738:72A2:F85A (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit), Perreonz (talk · give credit) and ToddyOC (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
New Zealand All Blacks rugby union player. 240F:7A:6253:1:3588:1738:72A2:F85A (talk) 07:12, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose there is an cn tag and Career highlights list needs more more sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:47, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- The problems remain; this isn't ready. Schwede66 04:06, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) Chinese cooking oil scandal
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: Food safety incidents in China (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Chinese cooking oil scandal (Post)
News source(s): DW
Credits:
Article updated
"The investigative report into the latest scandal revealed that two tanker trucks had been loaded with cooking oil for delivery immediately after carrying chemical products, a cost-saving measure that the media said had become an "open secret" in the supply chain." Count Iblis (talk) 17:12, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Blurb: Chinese cooking oil scandal (Post)
News source(s): DW
Credits:
- Nominated by Count Iblis (talk · give credit)
Article updated
- Oppose One sentence update is not sufficient for a posting.
- Noah, BSBATalk 17:43, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Two dirty tanker trucks is relatively insignificant.
- Celjski Grad (talk) 17:54, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Count, it seems unbelievable that by now you don't know how ITNR works. Please add a blurb and explain why this enjoys special notability. _-_Alsor (talk) 17:58, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose the nomination comment is longer than the update in the article. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:01, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
(Posted) 2024 Copa América final
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Article: 2024 Copa América final (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: In association football, Argentina defeat Colombia to win the 2024 Copa América. (Post)
Alternative blurb: In association football, Argentina defeats Colombia to win the 2024 Copa América.
Alternative blurb II: In association football, the 2024 Copa América final ends 1-0, Argentina over Colombia.
News source(s): The Athletic
Credits:
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Blurb: In association football, Argentina defeat Colombia to win the 2024 Copa América. (Post)
Alternative blurb: In association football, Argentina defeats Colombia to win the 2024 Copa América.
Alternative blurb II: In association football, the 2024 Copa América final ends 1-0, Argentina over Colombia.
News source(s): The Athletic
Credits:
- Nominated by MarkH21 (talk · give credit)
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Article is well-referenced as of nomination, with a few updates being added. — MarkH21talk 04:10, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose due to missing prose summary, rest-of-tournament sections, and description of the pre-match ticket fiasco that pushed the match back by an hour. Will try to make improvements tomorrow. SounderBruce 04:11, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- The sumamry & pre-match sections have now been started with a few paragraphs each. — MarkH21talk 05:01, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per above, article's simply not ready. Do want to note for anyone that may raise it - this is correctly placed on the 15th, as due to the delay/extra time the Final ended after midnight eastern. The Kip (contribs) 04:31, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- I thought it goes by UTC? Otherwise Super Bowl would always end hours after the bot adds the day after the local day. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:33, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support when ready. Seems to be more than enough text about the Miami security issues. Nfitz (talk) 05:01, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support when ready, big win for a great team in a big tournament. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:E1C5:79C8:157A:391E (talk) 05:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Notability is not an issue as the event is listed on ITNR (presumed to be notable). Focus solely on article quality. Bremps... 05:21, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- ’’’Procedural support’” guess we can’t have only real news on ITN forever :/ This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:12, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- We get it, you don’t like sportsball. Doesn’t mean you have to insert your personalized commentary/complaints every time a sporting event comes up at ITNC - this isn’t the first time in recent memory. The Kip (contribs) 09:51, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, like "Old Man Dies" it's getting very wearisome now. Black Kite (talk) 15:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Except "old man dies" has an argument to be made for it; complaining about ITN/R sports stories has none. Kicking222 (talk) 21:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- I suppose so.
- Both are tiring, but OMD is rooted in a legitimate criticism of ITNC (albeit one I disagree with), while the “sports bad” comments amount to contrarianism - these are easily notable enough by our standards. The Kip (contribs) 01:29, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Why and how does it always come back to death blurbs? It's the black hole of all ITN discussion, sucking everything towards it. Bremps... 05:48, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Except "old man dies" has an argument to be made for it; complaining about ITN/R sports stories has none. Kicking222 (talk) 21:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, like "Old Man Dies" it's getting very wearisome now. Black Kite (talk) 15:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- We get it, you don’t like sportsball. Doesn’t mean you have to insert your personalized commentary/complaints every time a sporting event comes up at ITNC - this isn’t the first time in recent memory. The Kip (contribs) 09:51, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment If both this blurb and the previous Euro one are posted, they could be merged into one blurb to avoid repetition (e.g: In association football, Spain defeat England to win UEFA Euro 2024, and Argentina defeat Colombia to win the 2024 Copa América.) Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 09:52, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Considering they’ll be run back to back, can’t say I’d be opposed to this proposal. The Kip (contribs) 09:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- I endorse this proposal. GenevieveDEon (talk) 14:31, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Like -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:04, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- I endorse this proposal. GenevieveDEon (talk) 14:31, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- They are separate events. Would we merge any other type of news event together because they happened one day after the other? ("In disaster news, earthquakes in Anyville and Randomtown kill 21 and 34 people respectively"). Black Kite (talk) 15:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, if only to not have two very similar events take up two bullet points. Wqwt (talk) 16:34, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- We have. Bremps... 02:50, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Two separate events clash. Unnamelessness (talk) 15:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- I feel that two events in the same sport can be put on the same line (many of the two winning teams are probably teammates at club level); that's not the same as merging either of these with Wimbledon. As with disasters, I feel like if earthquakes hit California and Texas on the same day, that would be posted on the same line because the response would probably be co-ordinated - different to posting an earthquake in the USA and one in China on the same line. I swear I've seen joint posting for when different European leagues have ended on the same day, or in the same week as the Champions League. Unknown Temptation (talk) 16:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- This does make a good bit of sense. They're both continental championship finals in the exact same sport. We don't post a separate blurb for two separate finals from Wimbledon, for instance. Of course, that does hinge on this getting posted in a timely manner anyway; right now this article suffers from the all-too-common problem for championship finals of being just a table dumb with little to no prose. Nottheking (talk) 17:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- The article has a dozen paragraphs of prose and one table. — MarkH21talk 18:48, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Considering they’ll be run back to back, can’t say I’d be opposed to this proposal. The Kip (contribs) 09:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on principle. I've got a question though, shouldn't the blurb for this and the UEFA final ITN say that "... (Spain / Argentina) defeats (England / Colombia) ..." instead of the singular defeat since the blurbs are in present tense and the subject nations are singular nouns? SpacePod9 (talk) 23:54, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Each side of the Pond seems to have a different opinion on which is broken English (defeat or defeats). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:07, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- If it's an ENGVAR issue, since this Copa America involved North America, maybe "defeats" is the way to go. But IDK, it seems like it's more to do with certain countries referring to their national teams as "they", and some referring to their national teams as "it", and the subsequent verb agreement (they defeat, it defeats). In that case, we should probably look to the WP articles of the relevant national teams to see which pronoun seems to be in use, and make the blurb agree. Kingsif (talk) 04:17, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- See the current Euro 2024 blurb for the standard method of avoiding this issue. Black Kite (talk) 05:00, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, also on principle. 2605:8D80:325:ABB8:4CDA:C019:1E39:3DB (talk) 02:21, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. I was going to be the one to nominate this article, but thanks for doing so. 64.114 etc 03:29, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted combined blurb. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:53, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- I like it They're close in form, time and (questionable) prose quality. Nobody urgently needs to learn the score. The important thing is the finals (each one final) are featured, rather than divisive words about winning or losing. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:12, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you - that's a well-handled combined blurb. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:39, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-posting SupportAppreciate the varied opinions but there was clear consensus to post. This was the right call. Pats2017 (talk)
July 14
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July 14, 2024 (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Sports
|
(Posted) UEFA Euro 2024 final
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Article: UEFA Euro 2024 final (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: In association football, Spain defeat England to win UEFA Euro 2024. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Spain wins the UEFA Euro 2024, defeating England.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Blurb: In association football, Spain defeat England to win UEFA Euro 2024. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Spain wins the UEFA Euro 2024, defeating England.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
- Nominated by Gödel2200 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by MarkH21 (talk · give credit), Kingsif (talk · give credit) and MAL MALDIVE (talk · give credit)
Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
The article for the final may need some sourcing work. Gödel2200 (talk) 20:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose until there is a prose recap of the match. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 20:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle. Congratulations to Spain for the fully deserved victory.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- You're well aware that "support in principle" is meaningless for an ITN/R article. Either say that you think it's ready or say why you don't think it's ready. Kicking222 (talk) 21:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Per answer above; in principle. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:4DE:B079:824F:421A (talk) 21:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- This is also a big win for a major world country in one of the major international tournaments that conclude today. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:4DE:B079:824F:421A (talk) 21:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Jeez in the 21st century any team that wins the Euros is a big/important country... yes, I'm even talking about Portugal and Greece. Howard the Duck (talk) 23:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- This is also a big win for a major world country in one of the major international tournaments that conclude today. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:4DE:B079:824F:421A (talk) 21:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose the final as the primary article as it seems quite perfunctory, doesn't provide any narrative for the game and needs work for issues like tense. The UEFA Euro 2024 article would be better as the primary article as it covers the entire event but that needs work too. Andrew🐉(talk) 21:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Those oppose votes that the article on the final lacks a prose recap of the match only 20 minutes after its end are very unproductive and may delay posting this because the majority of admins here blindly count votes. We all know that this won’t be posted in the next two hours, at least.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support: The prose summary has been started and is well-referenced. No preference for primary-linked article or wording in the blurb. — MarkH21talk 21:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- SUPPORT! Apparently, it’s agreeable that the summary is well authentically referenced with good citations. 207.194.85.134 (talk) 23:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Well this is clearly an AI chatbot re-writing of the !vote directly above... Kingsif (talk) 02:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support article looks good to go. Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 02:06, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Prose summary is brief but adequate, and the rest looks ready. The Kip (contribs) 03:17, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. As it stands, the prose summary is far too short for a major match. SounderBruce 03:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment defeats* Jiaminglimjm (talk) 05:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Nope WP:ENGVAR- defeat is correct in British English. Joseph2302 (talk) 06:47, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment If both this blurb and the next Copa América one are posted, they could be merged into one blurb to avoid repetition (e.g: In association football, Spain defeat England to win UEFA Euro 2024, and Argentina defeat Colombia to win the 2024 Copa América.) Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 09:52, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think it's wise to merge them as it may delude people that it's a single event or two closely related events, especially when we have a combined blurb on the Wimbledon Championships already on the main page.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- No, they are completely separate events. Every year we get a glut of sporting ITN/Rs around this time, it's just one of those things. Black Kite (talk) 11:34, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- But it would avoid the tiff of which one gets posted on top and in turn lasts longer. I get they are different events, but still "continent level championship for national teams in the same sport at the same time" is close enough that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. But no strong opinion either way, just seems like it would avoid some drama. nableezy - 17:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
*Oppose on quality (and unmarked as Ready). Four sentences of prose on the entire final match is not sufficient. Black Kite (talk) 11:33, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, that's good. Marked Ready again. Black Kite (talk) 15:10, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support there really is nothing more you can write about the match, the quality is good enough Reme77 (talk) 12:53, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support I've made the summary four paragraphs now, two for each half. Kingsif (talk) 14:44, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Admins willing to post ITN: anyone available to post this? Natg 19 (talk) 00:58, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted the ALT blurb. Schwede66 01:58, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- I updated the blurb due to the usual ENGVAR issues (especially as the one used was the NA "wins"). Black Kite (talk) 04:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Evan Wright
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Article: Evan Wright (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Baltimore Sun
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Baltimore Sun
Credits:
- Nominated by CrazyMagicPickle (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Author of Generation Kill. Article could use some reorganizing (I'm new to this so lmk if I'm doing this wrong). CrazyMagicPickle (talk) 18:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait good is in a good shape, only thing holding it back is that the Published works section needs sourcing. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:49, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak support Overall good shape. Two cn tags shouldn't keep it from posting IMO. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:01, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Several {cn} remaining, including one for his DoB. --PFHLai (talk) 13:48, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- PFHLai, CN tags have been fixed by UndercoverClassicist; I also archived a dead link, and a spot-check seems to check out the rest. @Admins willing to post ITN, does this seem sufficient now? Curbon7 (talk) 21:13, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for fixing this. Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 21:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) Wimbledon 2024
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Blurb: In tennis, Barbora Krejčíková and Carlos Alcaraz (pictured) win the women's and men's singles respectively at the Wimbledon Championships. (Post)
News source(s): NYT - The Washington Post
Credits:
- Nominated by PrinceofPunjab (talk · give credit)
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
I think the article is in a good enough shape to be posted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 16:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support We should get this done quickly because there will be the UEFA result to post soon. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support unlike most tennis articles nominated here, this one actually has some decent tournament summaries and so meets WP:ITNQUALITY. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - Seems to be in a good enough state. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 18:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article is well sourced and has a good amount of prose about the matches. Gödel2200 (talk) 18:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note I'm going to post this when the image is protected. Black Kite (talk) 19:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
(Reviewers' attention needed) RD: Jacoby Jones
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Article: Jacoby Jones (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Baltimore Sun
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Baltimore Sun
Credits:
- Nominated by The Kip (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Hey man im josh (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American football wide receiver. Article needs a decent bit of work. The Kip (contribs) 16:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Noting that I did a significant amount of work on the article to clean it up, including adding about 20 references. I've added myself as an updater, hope that's ok @The Kip. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:36, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Just a further detail, the only tag on the article now is to expand the Houston Texans section. Hey man im josh (talk) 21:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Can that section realistically be expanded much, though? It seems he didn't do a whole lot during his time in Houston. The Kip (contribs) 17:17, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Stephen, as the guy who often handles posting - do you think this is good to go? The Kip (contribs) 18:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Can that section realistically be expanded much, though? It seems he didn't do a whole lot during his time in Houston. The Kip (contribs) 17:17, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Just a further detail, the only tag on the article now is to expand the Houston Texans section. Hey man im josh (talk) 21:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait Houston Texans orange tag needs to be resolved otherwise good to go. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:50, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Jacoby Jones#Houston Texans carries an orange {expand} tag and two {cn} tags. --PFHLai (talk) 02:51, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
- That section has now been rewritten. Orange {expand} tag and {cn} tags now gone. Time for a re-review, please? --PFHLai (talk) 22:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Shannen Doherty
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Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:
- Nominated by Jolicnikola (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
- Oppose There are CN tags. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 15:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. The article is in good shape, no remaining tags. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 02:40, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Scheridon (talk) 12:17, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support – Article is in good shape indeed. No such thing as an image RD of course, but I'm glad you included the image here as it drew my attention. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 13:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Too many Cn tags.—Bagumba (talk) 15:15, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Tagging several non-exceptional claims (some covered in the obituaries), without further contribution, and then opposing an RD based on your own tags? The article had 80 citations too. I don't really have the words, but I'm disappointed. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 21:41, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Bearas (talk) 05:36, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak support Two cn tags shouldn't keep this from posting...I think. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:50, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 09:05, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) Suspension of Alice Guo
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Bamban, Tarlac mayor Alice Guo is suspended after her actual identity is revealed to be Chinese. (Post)
News source(s): Rappler Inquirer Philstar
Credits:
- Nominated by TheNuggeteer (talk · give credit)
- Created by JL 09 (talk · give credit)
Really big incident in the Philippines, a lot of news sources talking about it, I might as well try to put it on the main page.🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 11:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Subnational incident that doesn't rise to the level of impact required for a main page posting.
- Noah, BSBATalk 11:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose This seems to be stale; Guo was suspended from office on 3 June, and the NBI investigation confirmed her identity on 27 June ([11]). An arrest warrant was issued on 13 July, but this seems to have been for the Philippine equivalent of Contempt of Congress rather than any other malfeasance ([12]), and besides that arrests themselves are very rarely posted here. Curbon7 (talk) 12:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose The suspension itself is stale, and the story is a subnational incident. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per the above. The wording of the proposed blurb is weird as well, and this definitely doesn't rise even to a national level of significance. (If Andy Burnham lost his job, would we post it here? When Nicola Sturgeon or Ron De Santis were in trouble, did we post it?) But also, this was rightly closed as a no-hoper, and it's been reopened by an IP user. GenevieveDEon (talk) 18:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose and re-close, not going to get posted as per the above, so this should be re-closed (and IP editor re-opened it previously). Joseph2302 (talk) 20:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
July 13
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July 13, 2024 (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
International relations
Law and crime
Sports
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RD: Ron E Sparks
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Article: Ron E Sparks (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): 9News
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): 9News
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:A573:E493:327E:FFAE (talk · give credit)
- Updated by 220 of Borg (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Australian radio presenter. 240F:7A:6253:1:A573:E493:327E:FFAE (talk) 13:33, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Quite a few citation needed tags. Schwede66 01:57, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Several {cn} remaining, including one for his DoB. --PFHLai (talk) 13:42, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Ruth Hesse
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Article: Ruth Hesse (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Violin Channel
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Violin Channel
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
- Created by LouisAlain (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
German mezzo-soprano who made an international career starting at the Vienna State Opera in big roles in 1965. The article was basically there, translated from de. I had to find references for recordings, and some that disappeared over the five years since it was DYK. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:23, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article looks good. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:38, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 01:58, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Naomi Pomeroy
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Article: Naomi Pomeroy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Oregon Live
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Oregon Live
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:5:1EE6:C9D5:AA47 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Another Believer (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American chef. 240F:7A:6253:1:5:1EE6:C9D5:AA47 (talk) 03:11, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support meets the Bare minimum requirement. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article looks good enough. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:38, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support I've updated and fixed the banner. Valereee (talk) 18:14, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted—Bagumba (talk) 22:10, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: P. Buckley Moss
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Article: P. Buckley Moss (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The News Virginian
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The News Virginian
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:5:1EE6:C9D5:AA47 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American artist and philanthropist. 240F:7A:6253:1:5:1EE6:C9D5:AA47 (talk) 03:11, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait article needs a bit work. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:53, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Last section is unsourced and lead could be expanded to reflect her notability. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:39, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: James B. Sikking
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Article: James B. Sikking (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline Hollywood, The Hollywood Reporter, Variety
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline Hollywood, The Hollywood Reporter, Variety
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:B0BC:D35C:F470:BF2D (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Nohomersryan (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American actor. 240F:7A:6253:1:B0BC:D35C:F470:BF2D (talk) 05:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose uncited filmography/discography. But aside from that, there's a massive uncited list of movies in paragraph form that needs to be fixed. Bremps... 22:36, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose same as what Bremps said. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not much improvement since the two reviews above. Time is running out soon. --PFHLai (talk) 13:27, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) 2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally
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Blurb: Former President of the United States Donald Trump survives an assassination attempt after being shot during a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Donald Trump was injured after being shot during a rally held in Butler, Pennsylvania with the perpetrator being shot dead.
Alternative blurb II: One person is killed and two others are injured, including former U.S. president Donald Trump, in a shooting at a political rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.
Alternative blurb III: Former U.S. president Donald Trump survives an assassination attempt at a political rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.
News source(s): The New York Times, AP
Credits:
- Nominated by Midori No Sora (talk · give credit)
Probably the most serious security incident involving Donald Trump. Trump survived the assassination attempt. 2 people were injured, and the perpetrator and an audience was killed. Currently reported live by major news sites worldwide. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 23:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait until it is confirmed it was an assassination attempt. If it is then I will change my vote to support. Jbvann05 23:06, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait Information is scarce right now. Vanilla Wizard 💙 23:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait - People are rushing to get this story to the front page before we even know what the story is. Calm down, everyone. GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:10, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - And why do we have a stock photo of him? We know what Trump looks like, and the picture has nothing more specific to do with the story than that. GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's only a temporary image as there's no free / non-copyrighted image of the shooting at the moment. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 23:55, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - And why do we have a stock photo of him? We know what Trump looks like, and the picture has nothing more specific to do with the story than that. GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait We have very few details as of now, so we need to wait. Gödel2200 (talk) 23:12, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait Wait inception. This happened 30 minutes ago. Await more details. qw3rty 23:14, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - Confirmed assassination attempt that injured a former US president and current presidential candidate. No matter what details come out, this is a 100% newsworthy event. Poxy4 (talk) 23:27, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait Wikipedia isn't for breaking news. There is very little useful information that could be added to the article that could be properly sourced.142.163.137.123 (talk) 23:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, now a shooting has been confirmed. Trump is injured. The perpetrator and an audience member died. This country is going to suffer extreme political violence in the coming weeks, so it was nice knowing you. Personisinsterest (talk) 23:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Do you have sources for any of that? None of it is on the BBC live feed. GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Here is one: 1 Gödel2200 (talk) 23:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. That message was labelled '4 min ago' as I saw it. Could we perhaps all slow down a little and not try to push this story onto the home page while it's still developing? GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:34, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- The original source appears to be local DA speaking to various media. Different media have different threshold for single/double/triple confirmation before reporting something big. Which is why there's some reporting of dead shooter in some media but not others. Wait until it's reported across major media before referencing such if it's considered to be included with a blurb. -- KTC (talk) 23:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. That message was labelled '4 min ago' as I saw it. Could we perhaps all slow down a little and not try to push this story onto the home page while it's still developing? GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:34, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Here is one: 1 Gödel2200 (talk) 23:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Injured? Trump's people are saying he's fine. Nfitz (talk) 23:36, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's not unreasonable to say injured when there's literally video of him with blood coming out of his ear, whether through being shot, hit his head on something during the whole incident or a USSS agent accidentally whacking him in the head as they cover him with their bodies. -- KTC (talk) 23:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- They’re saying he’s alive. Personisinsterest (talk) 23:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Do you have sources for any of that? None of it is on the BBC live feed. GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Skyshiftertalk 23:27, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait Maybe some news sources are just catching up, but the latest updates I see are "suspected shooting" and "audience member reportedly shot". Kingsif (talk) 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait until more information comes out, then Support. Absolutely a notable and newsworthy event, but the article should be given the time it needs to develop. ArkHyena (talk) 23:37, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Confirmed shooting with multiple casualties. It looks like Trump was grazed by a bullet. This is massive news and the article is of adequate quality for posting. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hit with glass shrapnel from the teleprompter, apparently. So there was a shooting at a Trump rally, but it didn't involve Trump. Kingsif (talk) 23:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Do you have a source for this? ꧁Zanahary꧂ 23:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Axios via Guardian, hasn't been removed or corrected as of now. Kingsif (talk) 00:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Seems unlikely given the teleprompter would have had to be behind him. Jevansen (talk) 00:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Axios via Guardian, hasn't been removed or corrected as of now. Kingsif (talk) 00:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Insanely bad take. I can't fathom the levels of bias necessary to suggest "there was a shooting ... but it didn't involve Trump." The Guardian citation doesn't support your interpretation. Dr Fell (talk) 00:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's best not to worry about what's going on in other editors' brains, and to instead focus your attention to the editorial decisions they make and influence. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 00:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Dr Fell and Zanahary: You both need to remember WP:NPA, remember this is not Twitter, and remember that there were many developments in reporting in the half hour between my and your comments. Kingsif (talk) 01:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Kingsif respectfully, I have not even grazed a personal attack. I told Dr Fell not to worry about any editor’s apparent bias, in favor of concerning themselves with the editorial decisions we have to make about this ITN item. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 01:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- In light of this, retracted. Kingsif (talk) 01:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Kingsif respectfully, I have not even grazed a personal attack. I told Dr Fell not to worry about any editor’s apparent bias, in favor of concerning themselves with the editorial decisions we have to make about this ITN item. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 01:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Dr Fell and Zanahary: You both need to remember WP:NPA, remember this is not Twitter, and remember that there were many developments in reporting in the half hour between my and your comments. Kingsif (talk) 01:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's best not to worry about what's going on in other editors' brains, and to instead focus your attention to the editorial decisions they make and influence. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 00:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Do you have a source for this? ꧁Zanahary꧂ 23:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hit with glass shrapnel from the teleprompter, apparently. So there was a shooting at a Trump rally, but it didn't involve Trump. Kingsif (talk) 23:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait for more details to filter in and populate the article (besides rection kudzu). Its clearly an event to be posted but we aren't here to do breaking news, and instead should wait until we have a reasonable quality article. There is zero reason to rush to post. --Masem (t) 23:47, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support but wait for more details like how was the weapon smuggled into the rally? Also an audience member died, why isn’t that casualty in the alt blurb?
- Wafflefrites (talk) 23:53, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not re: your vote Wafflefrites, but just so you know: it seems that the shooter was on a rooftop outside the rally. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 00:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Casualties are already reported and this is major news, while the article is in good shape. Ppt91talk 23:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support I think we’ve gotten enough information to put this on the front page now. Estreyeria (talk) 23:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Holy shit. Bremps... 00:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - this is a significant and recent news story Enoryt nwased lamaj (talk) 00:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note He was injured as a result of the shooting, there is (I haven't seen) as yet no confirmation that he was shot, so neither of the proposed blurb is okay as it stand. -- KTC (talk) 00:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support posting but Strong Oppose current blurb and alternative. Former President of the United States Donald Trump injured in assassination attempt at campaign rally in Butler, Pennsylvania. Dr Fell (talk) 00:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Not sure how else you can interpret this as anything other than an assassination attempt. Scu ba (talk) 00:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's not up to Wikipedia editors to "interpret" an event. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is a tertiary source, and luckily we are not saddled with the task of interpreting events—only repeating the reports of reliable secondary sources. It'll become clear in the next few hours how sources are treating this (and I'll be surprised if it's not as an assassination attempt, considering the report I read about the local police investigating it as an attempt on DJT's life). ꧁Zanahary꧂ 00:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb3 This was an assassination attempt. "was injured" is ambiguous. — hako9 (talk) 00:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Assassination attempt or not, there's no question that one person was shot dead at an event involving a former U.S. president. As I write this the story at NY Times' website says "Trump ‘Safe’ After Shooting at Rally; Suspect Is Killed". This is a no brainer for main page. ☆ Bri (talk) 00:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support There’s no ambiguity around this shooting happening and being notable. CNN has already reported this is being investigated as an assassination attempt. Delay this further is absurd. Kcmastrpc (talk) 00:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - No need to wait as article is cited and will grow as we speak. Morogris (✉ • ✎) 00:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Further international coverage, [13] from the ABC, who had a reporter on site, and who describes one of the dead as "the person who fired shots in the former president's direction". Elsewhere, the same page says "Associated Press is reporting that the shooting is being investigated as an assassination attempt", "Washington Post reporter Meryl Kornfield says authorities told her Mr Trump was grazed by gunfire", and our ambassador and former PM Kevin Rudd has released a statement regarding "the attack on former President Trump". Nyttend (talk) 00:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - Incident itself has been confirmed. --DannyC55 (Talk) 00:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Posted. El_C 00:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait. Per @Masem. Also consider using File:Shooting of Donald Trump.webp. LuxembourgLover (talk) 00:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- This image cannot be used, as it is likely a copyrighted image, and not fair use. Natg 19 (talk) 00:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait for reasons stated above. We certainly cannot mention numbers at the moment, as they will quickly get outdated. Ornov Ganguly (talk) 00:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- We routinely post major events involving casualties, and then update the blurb as the facts warrant. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Blurb should be re-written to stick to the known facts. No investigative body has concluded that it's an assassination attempt, but they are investigating it as such. So the confirmed information: 2 dead, there was a shooting, Trump was injured, they're inestigating it as an assassination attempt. Harizotoh9 (talk) 01:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: I think outright labelling it as an assassination attempt is projection on Wikipedia's part. I don't think any reliable sources have labelled it as such. Even the article itself just says it is being "investigated as an assassination attempt" but doesn't outright label it an assassination attempt. At the very least the blurb should reflect what is written in the article it is relating to. RahelTensions (talk) 01:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Change blurb to ALT2 per @Harizotoh9. Even though it is fairly obvious that it was an assassination attempt this has not been confirmed and RS have only said it's being investigated as an assassination attempt, not that it was. ALT2 reflects the current facts of the situation. Jbvann05 01:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh and there were two confirmed deaths so the Alt2 blurb is out of date already. One rally attendee and the shooter. Harizotoh9 (talk) 01:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- I've softened to possible assassination attempt, for now. El_C 01:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- FBI confirms assassination attempt. Was gonna omit
possible, but it looks like Ad Orientem beat me to it. El_C 05:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- FBI confirms assassination attempt. Was gonna omit
- I've softened to possible assassination attempt, for now. El_C 01:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh and there were two confirmed deaths so the Alt2 blurb is out of date already. One rally attendee and the shooter. Harizotoh9 (talk) 01:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb2 As per Jbvann then swap back to altblurb3 when confirmed. Sharrdx (talk) 03:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Change blurb to Alt2 Mentioning that someone was killed makes it the best description of what happened. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 02:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Change blurb to Alt3 Associated Press says shooting being investigated as assassination attempt. [6] CoatCheck (talk) 02:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Change to Altblurb2 "investigated as an assassination attempt" =/= "confirmed assassination attempt." Goal and motive still not know, so we should avoid assuming on what it is. Unless we get a RS stating that it's not just being "investigated as an assassination attempt" but outright declared as one, the ITN should not claim it as such. Nottheking (talk) 05:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- The FBI specifically called it an assassination attempt. RahelTensions (talk) 05:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose The incident is obviously interesting and in the news but it doesn't seem sufficiently certain, settled and stable to be suitable for presentation as an encyclopedia article. Issues include:
- Biden and Trump are both continually in the news as the presidential campaign progresses. For example, Biden's gaffes and the pressure on him to retire have been all over the news lately. It seems difficult to cherry-pick particular incidents in a balanced way and so the whole thing better belongs in Ongoing.
- The article about the incident is still a work-in-progress. For example, it currently uses a powerful image as fair use but the validity of this copyright issue is contested and unresolved.
- The incident is a crime but investigations are not yet complete. For example, the BBC reports that the shooter was spotted crawling into position minutes ahead of the shooting but nothing was done. The article does not yet explain this.
- There's already a big cloud of social media speculation, disinformation and misinformation out there which muddies the waters.
- We really don't need Donald Trump's smiling picture on the main page once again.
- Andrew🐉(talk) 06:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- If 'In the news' covered everyday campaign news, concern about cherry-picking events in a balanced way would be justified. Certain events within the presidential campaign are independently newsworthy. An assassination attempt on a former president and current presidential candidate is a significant (and likely historical) event.
- Featuring relevant and timely news often means linking to articles that are neither settled nor stable. The article is unambiguously flagged as a current event.
- You've repeated your concern about developing stories featuring in 'In the news.' The utility of 'In the news' is reduced for users if articles are only featured once they have matured.
- On the contrary, featuring this story helps combat social media speculation, disinformation, and misinformation by offering readers a fact-based resource.
- Your last point significantly weakens the preceding four.
- Dr Fell (talk) 17:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- ITN has moved on and so these points are mostly moot now. But the red link for Dr Fell is a nice puzzle and I fancy I have a solution. Now that's encyclopædic – well done! Andrew🐉(talk) 20:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support We recently posted Robert Fico’s assassination attempt, so it’s sensible to post a similar event involving a former US president and a clear front-runner in this year’s election. Yes, it seems like we post a lot of news about him, but we’re closely approaching the election and the next news to post should be his victory.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Slightly jumping ahead of the electoral process there, aren't you? GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- The user did jump the gun a bit, but I have a gut feeling that Trump's face is going to get on ITN at least six more times before he dies (win or lose this election) then again after he does. Bremps... 12:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, I now support the posting (although I don't think we need the picture - it's still not related to the story). It was the 'should be his victory' part that seems wildly premature! GenevieveDEon (talk) 13:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- The user did jump the gun a bit, but I have a gut feeling that Trump's face is going to get on ITN at least six more times before he dies (win or lose this election) then again after he does. Bremps... 12:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Slightly jumping ahead of the electoral process there, aren't you? GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) KP Sharma Oli becomes PM of Nepal
edit
Article: KP Sharma Oli (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: KP Sharma Oli (pictured) is appointed Prime Minister of Nepal following the ouster of incumbent Pushpa Kamal Dahal in a no confidence motion. (Post)
News source(s): Bloomberg
Credits:
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Blurb: KP Sharma Oli (pictured) is appointed Prime Minister of Nepal following the ouster of incumbent Pushpa Kamal Dahal in a no confidence motion. (Post)
News source(s): Bloomberg
Credits:
- Nominated by Rushtheeditor (talk · give credit)
- Updated by MAL MALDIVE (talk · give credit)
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
-. Rushtheedtior (talk) 16:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle but oppose inasmuch as it doesn't have any mention of the change in the article This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 22:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Currently, the article for the new PM doesn't actually mention him becoming the PM (for the current term), so this needs to be updated. Gödel2200 (talk) 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support as the above concerns have been addressed ꧁Zanahary꧂ 23:35, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article is well-sourced and of sufficient quality for ITN --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 01:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Many very reliable authentic citations and sources in an article of sufficient quality, like above. 64.251.82.42 (talk) 02:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Notable enough Scu ba (talk) 02:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Notable and of passable quality. Deprecated controversy section, but oh well, nothing's perfect. Bremps... 04:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Admins willing to post ITN: I believe that this is ready for posting. Bremps... 12:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment The target article still does not have any prose about him becoming prime minister. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Has anyone actually looked at the bolded article before requesting this is posted. Not a mention of 2024 activities leading to his 4th term. Stephen 12:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose article needs more info on 2024 as per Stephen. Also violates WP:Controversy section. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support An article about a notable event, with well-sourced citations, and which is a good quality article. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:4DE:B079:824F:421A (talk) 20:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article updated with information leading to current premiership. Nepalaya001 (talk) 01:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Since Stephen's assessment some 1.5 days ago, the article has been updated. As oppose votes focussed on a lack of updates, there's thus consensus for this to go to the main page. Schwede66 10:16, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Richard Simmons
editTemplate:ITN candidate Mooonswimmer 20:50, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - American notable celebrity. Harizotoh9 (talk) 20:57, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Notability isn't a requirement for RD, only death blurbs (though I won't touch that third rail any further...) Only article quality matters for RD. Bremps... 04:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- RIP Richard Simmons. As for the RD nomination, the article needs a few more citations before it's ready to be on the main page. Kurtis (talk) 21:15, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- There are over a hundred citations now. How many is enough? Kire1975 (talk) 02:42, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on article quality alone. It needs a great deal of work. Simmons is certainly notable enough. Challenger l (talk) 23:11, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- RD doesn't discriminate by notability, much like the Grim Reaper himself. Unless, of course, the subject is so non-notable that they shouldn't have a page, but that's neither here nor there. Bremps... 04:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. Richard Simmons: "Please don’t rain on my parade." 🤣🤣🤣Count Iblis (talk) 23:36, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support when ready Randy Kryn (talk) 23:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose RIP to such an amazing person. But, the article still has various cn and other tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:57, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- No tags now. Kire1975 (talk) 02:44, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- I count five citation needed tags. Schwede66 01:55, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- How about now? Kire1975 (talk) 04:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- I count five citation needed tags. Schwede66 01:55, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- No tags now. Kire1975 (talk) 02:44, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Major American pop culture icon in the 1980s and 1990s who popularized home workout videos, and enjoyed household name status within North America until the end of his life. ChristofferItzakah (talk) 03:20, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Quite a few unsourced bullet-points under Richard Simmons#Print and other media. There are also several {cn} tags in the prose. Please add more REFs and/or remove claims with no sources. --PFHLai (talk) 13:24, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
July 12
editTemplate:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 12 Template:Cob
RD: Tonke Dragt
editTemplate:ITN candidate Dutch children's author and illustrator. 240F:7A:6253:1:8C6E:5302:D3E9:4A7A (talk) 01:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Only a few uncited statements holding this back. Bremps... 06:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support no more uncited statements, this can be promoted now. Jaguarnik (talk) 04:17, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose three cn tags still remain and bibliography is also unsourced. PrinceofPunjabTALK 16:01, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Bill Viola
editTemplate:ITN candidate American contemporary video artist. 240F:7A:6253:1:8C6E:5302:D3E9:4A7A (talk) 01:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Several uncited statements. Bremps... 06:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support have referenced the uncited statements. yorkshiresky (talk) 19:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support looks good to go. PrinceofPunjabTALK 16:02, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 05:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Ruth Westheimer
editTemplate:ITN candidate Support, but some issues remain, but close She's pretty close, but likely there's missing sources or some other issues. However, she should be ready soon. TheCorriynial (talk) 18:44, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Picture/blurb I'm in the UK and just heard a BBC news bulletin announce her death. I was already familiar with her large reputation and feel that she's a good example of the celebrity for which an RD picture is appropriate. A blurb would be good too, to explain to unfamiliar readers how and why she was so influential. Note also that the article is substantial, has a high quality rating, 175 inline citations and a huge bibliography.
- Also, we should run this as Dr. Ruth per WP:COMMONNAME.
- Andrew🐉(talk) 19:16, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
Strong support Death was very newsworthy in numerous international sources. With respect to the listing name, I agree commonname applies, but would propose Dr. Ruth Westheimer which would provide more adequate detail and clarification. I'll also propose the following as a blurb to further that discussion, however I am not sure if a blurb is necessarily called for here:
- "Radio and television celebrity sex therapist, Dr. Ruth Westheimer, dies at age 96 in Manhattan."
With or without blurb, definitely a strong candidate for inclusion.Bgv. (talk) 19:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - No blurb - "American celebrity dies" should go to RD. Harizotoh9 (talk) 22:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support for RD - article looks thoroughly sourced. Challenger l (talk) 23:11, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Photo RD More known by name than face, but the photo seems to be the whole point of an otherwise superfluous blurb for some (and the currently posted smiley makes little sense in its context). InedibleHulk (talk) 04:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:S
- It'd seem these flaws don't affect "article quality" here. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:38, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted—Bagumba (talk) 15:48, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Billy Ibadulla
editTemplate:ITN candidate Death announced on 12 July. Article will need further updates to make it ready. Schwede66 23:54, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Sourcing looks good, but the article seems short to me. Challenger l (talk) 23:11, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- There are currently 600+ words of prose in this wikibio. More than long enough to not be considered a stub. --PFHLai (talk) 01:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Uncited statements. Bremps... 22:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
July 11
editTemplate:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 11 Template:Cob
(Posted) RD: Thomas Hoepker
editTemplate:ITN candidate Influential photojournalist who explored - over 60 years - the human condition in East Germany and the United States and worldwide, taking iconic shots of Mohammad Ali and the World Trade Towers. Article was basically there but most of the references were missing. One good obit appeared today. Someone with time may find references for films and exhibitions, and use that obit for more detail - I go to a concert. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:10, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
Weak oppose A section needs sourcing.Support --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:21, 18 July 2024 (UTC)- The section is now referenced. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:49, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Looks good now, everything appears to be sourced. --Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 11:30, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. I added two more obits. I wasn't aware that one of his works has an article, View from Williamsburg, Brooklyn, on Manhattan, 9/11. I wonder if it could appear in his article. There would still be exhibitions to be added but I'm out for the rest of the day. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:49, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted DanCherek (talk) 22:31, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Monte Kiffin
editTemplate:ITN candidate NFL coach. Needs some work. Natg 19 (talk) 00:41, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not Ready. Several citations are still required. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 03:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose There's some WP:PEACOCK which has been disputed on the talk page without resolution for fifteen years. And the article is just rated Start class. A reasonable picture though. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:00, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Aparna (television presenter)
editTemplate:ITN candidate Indian anchor and actress. mwwv converse∫edits 18:14, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not ready; many citations are missing. Schwede66 21:32, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Filmography section needs sourcing. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 01:38, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support I've added missing references, should be good now. --Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 11:26, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted – Schwede66 21:31, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Shelley Duvall
edit- Support, notable actor with major role in The Shining, no issues with article. 5.57.241.186 (talk) 16:34, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose there are a lot of unsourced lines. _-_Alsor (talk) 17:36, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support once typical missing refs are fixed. Kcmastrpc (talk) 18:17, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Notable enough, good article quality. --NoonIcarus (talk) 20:08, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:U, please note that notability is NOT one of the criteria for a recent death posting. All that matters is article quality. Schwede66 21:13, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Conditional support -- still a few uncited film credits / one "unreliable source" tag to fix; support once those are good.~Malvoliox (talk | contribs) 21:23, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support now -- no more citation needed tags. There is that one "unreliable source?" tag but it seems reasonably good. ~Malvoliox (talk | contribs) 16:43, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support once fixed. Spotted a few more paragraphs that need citations. Apart from that, no issues found. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 03:49, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Picture Just the name didn't do it for me as initially I was confusing it with other Shelleys like Winters and Long. We have a PD picture which is quite recognisable and so we should use it. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:32, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- We don't do picture RDs, but go ahead and propose it if you want. Natg 19 (talk) 06:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- We've posted a picture RD more than once. For example, see Kirk Douglas. And it's good to do this because otherwise we keep running the same picture day after day. For example, we're 12 days into the month but we've only posted 4 different pictures. Changing the picture every day like the other main page sections ought to be our goal and using RD pics is an easy way of achieving this. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:01, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- This was four years ago, and I don't think we need to open another front of endless debate. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:13, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- We've posted a picture RD more than once. For example, see Kirk Douglas. And it's good to do this because otherwise we keep running the same picture day after day. For example, we're 12 days into the month but we've only posted 4 different pictures. Changing the picture every day like the other main page sections ought to be our goal and using RD pics is an easy way of achieving this. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:01, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is already a discussion about this on the talk page, and unless there is a consensus to do picture RDs, there is no point asking for this. Natg 19 (talk) 16:17, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- The general consensus of the talk page discussion seems to be that picture RDs are a good idea and should be posted when appropriate. So let's get on with it – nothing ventured, nothing gained. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:40, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed. Kcmastrpc (talk) 18:46, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- The general consensus of the talk page discussion seems to be that picture RDs are a good idea and should be posted when appropriate. So let's get on with it – nothing ventured, nothing gained. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:40, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is already a discussion about this on the talk page, and unless there is a consensus to do picture RDs, there is no point asking for this. Natg 19 (talk) 16:17, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- We don't do picture RDs, but go ahead and propose it if you want. Natg 19 (talk) 06:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Article appears to be in a good shape now. Kcmastrpc (talk) 18:47, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Nope, the article has several unsourced paragraphs. Nowhere close to being ready. Masem (t) 23:16, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - She was big in the 70's and 80's, and starred in several very well known films. Harizotoh9 (talk) 19:56, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Photo RD (in due time) As Andrew notes, there are other famous acting Shelleys, but none with that face; could also possibly appease those who don't think Pezeshkian earned his spot freely and/or fairly. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:47, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- What happened to the time-tested "Old Man/Woman Died" argument? Seems not to apply to pictures, I guess... Khuft (talk) 15:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Given that there are no normal blurbs in the queue that are likely to be posted and/or lack a photo themselves, this seems like a reasonable case to include a photo for the RD. However, I stress the article is nowhere close to being ready for posting due to lack of sourcing on several paragraphs. --Masem (t) 23:29, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD only Not sure why she is more deserving of a picture than others currently on the RD docket. Her fame rests basically on one movie, and the cult following it has attracted. Article looks fine for me. Khuft (talk) 15:49, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support picture rd Since we don't seem to have a picture for the French Election, this should be fine until the euros final tomorrow (because we will certainly have a picture for that). Sharrdx (talk) 16:35, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Citations have now been added, so the article is ready to go. Gödel2200 (talk) 01:41, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose Quite a few sentences in the 1980s section are unsourced, so it is still not ready. Gödel2200 (talk) 17:40, 13 July 2024 (UTC) - Support Upon making my own assessment, I respectfully disagree with Gödel2200. Where sentences are not footnoted, it is because there is a footnote at the end of the paragraph which is the base citation for all of the sentences in that paragraph. This article is ready and should be posted to RD - she is a well known actress and public figure; it would be a shame if not. FlipandFlopped ツ 01:35, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article looks good. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 01:38, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 01:51, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: David Liederman
editTemplate:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 06:11, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - lots of cn tags and redlinks. Also the RD occurred on July 4, and per WP:ITN, we generally go by the date of the event. ~Malvoliox (talk | contribs) 21:00, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment – it seems his death has only been announced within the last 24 hours. The nominator should comment on that when that happens, though. Schwede66 21:18, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Got it -- still oppose for missing citations, but take this as a support once those have been fixed. ~Malvoliox (talk | contribs) 21:22, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Apologies for the confusion @Malvoliox @Schwede66, I normally nominate on the death date but this time the source gave a vague "on Thursday"; since the NYT article was last updated on Thursday, July 11, I assumed it was July 11th and nominated it there. Staraction (talk | contribs) 03:32, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment – it seems his death has only been announced within the last 24 hours. The nominator should comment on that when that happens, though. Schwede66 21:18, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - lots of cn tags and redlinks. Also the RD occurred on July 4, and per WP:ITN, we generally go by the date of the event. ~Malvoliox (talk | contribs) 21:00, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Three {cn} tags remaining. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 01:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Nana Nuriana
editTemplate:ITN candidate Former governor in Indonesia. Juxlos (talk) 03:06, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, with AGF for the offline Indonesian source backing up what it claims to back up. Schwede66 21:25, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 00:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
July 10
editTemplate:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 10 Template:Cob
RD: Thomas Hoepker
editTemplate:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 03:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Needs references. SpencerT•C 08:39, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
[Reviewers needed] RD: Peter Steedman
editTemplate:ITN candidateStudent activist from the 1960s and ratbag Australian politician from the 1980s, known for wearing jeans and a leather jacket into Parliament. HiLo48 (talk) 11:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Is there anything else that can be said about his political career in the House of Representatives other than his attire and a sentence about accusing other politicians of being neo-Nazis? SpencerT•C 08:39, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Dave Loggins
editTemplate:ITN candidate American singer-songwriter. 240F:7A:6253:1:D121:B15C:C03A:6F95 (talk) 04:00, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Good to go. Let's roll. Bremps... 04:53, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- The career section needs more sources for all the namedropping. The third table in the Discography section is also completely unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 01:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Joe Engle
editTemplate:ITN candidate NASA astronaut. 240F:7A:6253:1:D121:B15C:C03A:6F95 (talk) 03:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, for RD, of course. Engle was the last of the 12 X-15 pilots (a big deal) and the astronaut who was scheduled to walk on the Moon on Apollo 17 but was replaced by a geologist (after Apollo 18 was canceled). Among the two Space Shuttle missions he commanded was the project's second flight. Engle is one of spaceflight's pioneers. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:44, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- It might be a big deal, but what does " last of the 12 X-15 pilots" mean? HiLo48 (talk) 05:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- It indicates that Joe Engle was one of the earliest pioneers of spaceflight, and was the last surviving member of the first group in this list of all astronauts/cosmonauts. (to be honest, that article tells the entire answer/story well enough on its own; the rest of my reply is just more historical context)
- Worth noting that the X-15 pilots were selected before those of either Mercury or Vostok, thus making the X-15 program the earliest astronaut program to put anyone in space. (even if said spaceflights did not occur until a year or so after the other two programs) On top of that, the X-15 was the world's first hypersonic fixed-wing aircraft.
- This placed Engle in a very exclusive club; while the FAI does not recognize him as having flown in space in the X-15, both NASA & the US Air Force do recognize him as having flown due to having passed an altitude of 50 miles (80,467.2 meters or 264,000 feet) on three occasions. (also worth noting that the Air Force selection for X-15 pilots would include a far more well-known member in Neil Armstrong, first person to set foot on the Moon)
- With Engle's passing, there are no longer any surviving members of the first group of pilots seriously selected to go to space. This leaves Boris Volynov as the earliest-surviving astronaut/cosmonaut, as the sole surviving member of the USSR's first cosmonaut selection. Nottheking (talk) 17:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, but can you translate "12 X-15" to English please? HiLo48 (talk) 23:34, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- The X-15 was a specific type of aircraft. It was only ever flown by 12 pilots. Engle was the last living of those twelve. —Cryptic 23:49, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. HiLo48 (talk) 23:51, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- It might be a big deal, but what does " last of the 12 X-15 pilots" mean? HiLo48 (talk) 05:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support for RD. Article is generally in good shape. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 07:39, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD. well written and cited. Good citation on death ~Malvoliox (talk | contribs) 19:08, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Article is in great shape; easily meriting its B-class rating. (and probably not far off from GA) Kind of a shocker this hasn't been posted yet. It's pretty clearly ready for it, and it's nice to have more decent-quality articles in RD. Nottheking (talk) 08:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support There was an effort (Wikipedia:WikiProject Spaceflight/Adopt an astronaut) a few years back to get the astronaut articles up to GA or better, but we only got as far as the 1963 class. We got groups 1 thru 7 to B class though. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support as per Nottheking, how has this not been posted yet? Sharrdx (talk) 16:38, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Benji Gregory
editTemplate:ITN candidate American actor. He was found dead on June 13, but his death was announced on this day. 240F:7A:6253:1:A864:DA97:9C83:9E71 (talk) 03:13, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not ready with regards to referencing. Schwede66 06:07, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Played the boy in ALF. I know some people know and others would find out. But some don't or won't. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:27, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - orange-tagged with the usual problem. Staraction (talk | contribs) 22:38, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Maxine Singer
editTemplate:ITN candidate Article updated and well sourced. Death announced on this day. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:42, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Don't see any issues, solid B-class (or maybe even GA) article in my opinion. Bremps... 23:51, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Other than an unreferenced date of birth, that looks solid. Schwede66 06:05, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Now fixed; support since article looks good. Staraction (talk | contribs) 06:14, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Looks good! Estreyeria (talk) 13:37, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted – Schwede66 23:06, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
July 9
editTemplate:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 9 Template:Cob
RD: Dan Collins (journalist)
editTemplate:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 03:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not Ready. The article is a stub and needs a lot of expansion. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 03:52, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Can't see any issues. Bremps... 08:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Currently 1498 B (264 words) of readable prose.—Bagumba (talk) 14:55, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Diana Hill
editTemplate:ITN candidate New Zealand academic, and a full professor at the University of Otago. Article looks ok. Schwede66 04:49, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article is sufficiently well-sourced. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 10:16, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I was trying to polish up the page for main-page posting, but couldn't find any images of her, let alone free-use ones. Anyone more skilled want to try and take a whack at it? Bremps... 23:52, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- I came to the same conclusion; must have been a very camera-shy person. Schwede66 03:57, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Check the article. I fashion myself an OSINT expert now. Bremps... 22:15, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Good one, Bremps! Schwede66 00:35, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Check the article. I fashion myself an OSINT expert now. Bremps... 22:15, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- I came to the same conclusion; must have been a very camera-shy person. Schwede66 03:57, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Looks ready. Thriley (talk) 22:02, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 03:55, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
Ariane 6
editTemplate:ITN candidate The launch was initially planned for 2020, but was postponed until today. Gödel2200 (talk) 21:43, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Note that the flight was only mostly successful, with the upper-stage re-entry burn not taking place as scheduled. --Carnildo (talk) 22:04, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. The article doesn't include any details on the launch except to say that it occurred. In more than one instance the tense hasn't even been updated to show that the launch is now in the past. If we're going to blurb this we need to include at least some prose on the details of the maiden launch, what succeeded, what failed, etc. Otherwise I believe the maiden launch of a space vehicle (especially a major one from a government agency like ESA) is ITNR so support once the article is fixed. 142.163.137.123 (talk) 00:02, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Maiden launches of rockets are not ITN/R, only the first launch by a country is. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 02:45, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, upper stage appears to have failed a relight per ESA livestream. Worth mentioning in blurb? [osunpokeh/talk/contributions] 02:30, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Lean oppose on notability I can't recall any precedent on "new type of rocket is launched", and could see this right on the borderline of trivia. I could well be wrong though. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 02:39, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- It was ITNR until last year. -- KTC (talk) 19:51, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- That it was removed suggests consensus against posting such things going forward This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 22:56, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's a consensus that we'll judge each posting on its notability merit rather than assume merit and post every time (so long as quality of article). Removal from ITNR is not a "we'll never post it again". Your initial comment appears to suggest that you think new rocket type launch isn't something we post at all and that it's "borderline of trivia". The support for removal from ITNR are based on the increasing number of new rockets types launches with the advent of commercial space exploration/launches. Ariane isn't one of those commercial development/launch. It's a replacement of the workhorse launch system for the 22-member intergovernmental European Space Agency. -- KTC (talk) 08:08, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- That it was removed suggests consensus against posting such things going forward This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 22:56, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- It was ITNR until last year. -- KTC (talk) 19:51, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose for now, the flight itself (Ariane flight VA262) doesn't have its own article yet, which is a bit suboptimal. It did successfully send its payload to orbit, so it should be notable enough as a maiden flight (better than the perennial Starship test flights). Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 02:40, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- I agree, having an article about the flight would be nice. I don't want us to end up with the same result as the German Wikipedia, who currently have the same blurb in their version of "in the news", with a link to the article about de:Ariane 6 that barely mentions the maiden launch with a single sentence. I don't want to mock the German Wikipedia, but this rocket was largely developed in Germany, and if not even de:Liste der Ariane-6-Raketenstarts has anything to say about how the flight went, I find that quite sad. Renerpho (talk) 03:24, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose as nominated, since the launch wasn't really a "success", but would support with modifications. It did send its payload to orbit, it just failed to then de-orbit the second stage, which really is the main new innovation of the Da Vinci upper stage compared to what Ariane 5 did. I have no concerns about notability, just about how to put it into a neutral blurb. Renerpho (talk) 03:16, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- ESA put a lot of weight on their "zero debris" policy, and on how Vinci was a big step in that direction. Even if the problem with this launch doesn't affect plans for the future (which remains to be seen), putting 600 kg of debris into an orbit that will need decades to decay doesn't look like a success to me. With how the news cycle is working, I'd wait until it is day again in Europe and in the US, to see if the news actually lean towards success, or failure. Renerpho (talk) 03:46, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- My local paper's article (mostly a reprint of one in the Orlando Sentinel) managed to avoid calling it either a "success" or a "failure". --Carnildo (talk) 06:40, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Cowards. Renerpho (talk) 10:40, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- My local paper's article (mostly a reprint of one in the Orlando Sentinel) managed to avoid calling it either a "success" or a "failure". --Carnildo (talk) 06:40, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- ESA put a lot of weight on their "zero debris" policy, and on how Vinci was a big step in that direction. Even if the problem with this launch doesn't affect plans for the future (which remains to be seen), putting 600 kg of debris into an orbit that will need decades to decay doesn't look like a success to me. With how the news cycle is working, I'd wait until it is day again in Europe and in the US, to see if the news actually lean towards success, or failure. Renerpho (talk) 03:46, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - this would be more supportable if the article linked on the target page for the "maiden flight" existed - Ariane flight VA262. Nfitz (talk) 12:41, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- I am not convinced by the current state of the article that this merits posting, as it does not look ready. Almost more text is devoted to this launchdate being delayed, than to a description of the flight itself. Said description is completely limited to a table entry. Needs work. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 13:00, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle - I would fully support this if the article was up to par, but the launch itself doesn't have it's own article, and the main A6 article only has a small exerpt in launch history regarding it. This is exciting though; Arianespace is a major player in launch vehicles. qw3rty 14:10, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose nothing notable or significant about this launch. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:21, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Joe Bonsall
editTemplate:ITN candidate Tenor of the Oak Ridge Boys. rawmustard (talk) 17:40, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Article is nowhere near ready. Schwede66 05:27, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Some improvements but still tagged for uncited statements. Bremps... 23:58, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comments: Description of his career as a musician seems thin for someone in the Country Music Hall of Fame. --PFHLai (talk) 11:45, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Jim Inhofe
editTemplate:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 16:13, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, given Inhofe was notable for both representing Oklahoma for decades and climate change denial. I would wait until the article has been finished being edited, given Inhofe recently died, but Inhofe merits inclusion in RD. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 16:28, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Heaps of orange maintenance tags. Schwede66 05:28, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not ready: Page has a lot of orange maintenance tags. Once does are gone I'll support it. Duke of New Gwynedd (talk | contrib.) 19:23, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - At least a half dozen orange tags need to be dealt with. Jusdafax (talk) 00:13, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
July 8
editTemplate:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 8 Template:Cob
RD: Andrejs Plakans
editTemplate:ITN candidate Latvian American historian. Thriley (talk) 14:47, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Career section is mostly a list of positions, but does not have much detail about the subject's research career. SpencerT•C 02:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Marina Kondratyeva
editTemplate:ITN candidate Russian ballerina. Thriley (talk) 18:36, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Leading ballerina of the Bolshoi Ballet, famous as the "airy" Giselle, who received gala events from the company on her birthdays. I'll give her more refs but not right now, also asked a speaker of Russian for help. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:41, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: 1 sentence that needs a ref but otherwise appropriate depth, essentially ready. SpencerT•C 21:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- With 500+ words of prose, this wikibio is more than long enough to qualify. Footnotes can be found at expected spots (except one spot about her 2013 appointment to the artistic council of the Bolshoi Ballet troupe). Formatting looks fine. Earwig has no complaints. This wikibio looks READY FOR RD (once the lone {cn} tag is addressed). --PFHLai (talk) 21:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. It looks good to me. I suggest that if a citation cannot be found quickly for "In 2013, Kondratyeva was appointed a member of the artistic council of the Bolshoi Ballet troupe" - that the sentence be removed to the article's talk page until a citation can be found. I do not recommend deletion (temporary or otherwise) because it may then be forgotten, even though it is still there in the history. This is an attractive article for a link on the main page. Storye book (talk) 07:52, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- I followed your advice, moving to the talk page. I believe that he post was more or less honorary anyway, and doesn't change her biography much. On my search to find a reference I found two others for other facts that I added. I see that it would need someone knowing Russian to find a ref for the fact in question because English sources seem not to mention it, nor translations of the Russian sources we already have. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 11:24, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Women's high-jump WR
editTemplate:ITN candidate One of the longest-standing records in athletics, from 1987. Women's high jump world record progression 81.196.30.56 (talk) 01:56, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose provincial sports trivia This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 02:36, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- You don't seem to understand what "world" means. HiLo48 (talk) 02:55, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- A world record is the exact opposite of a provincial story. Stephen 02:40, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support This is a notable world record which has been unbroken for 37 years. I've added an altblurb to reduce ambiguity. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 04:19, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb1 article is in good condition, and it's notable because of how long the record stood; the altblurb reduces ambiguity, so that's why I prefer it over the original blurb. Unknown-Tree🌲? (talk) 05:29, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Altblurb article is in a good shape and breaking decades old record is blurbworthy. PrinceofPunjabTALK 06:07, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle. Article is also in good shape.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 06:56, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Issues There are several issues with this:
- The target article doesn't have much of an update and has lots of uncited facts.
- Another athletics world record was broken at the same event – see Guardian
- This was a warm-up for the Olympics which we're about to run. I suppose more world records will be broken at that.
- The record has not been ratified and there can be technical objections.
- There are so many sports with so many stats that records are broken all the time. For example, Lewis Hamilton won the British Grand Prix on Sunday which extended his record of wins and was the first time a driver had won a race for the ninth time. At Wimbledon, there's an new amazing record. There was a recent record at the Tour de France which we didn't run. And so on...
- Andrew🐉(talk) 07:30, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- From above "This is a notable world record which has been unbroken for 37 years." HiLo48 (talk) 07:42, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Jumping as high as possible is probably a much more mainstream world record than having the most Template:Tq. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 08:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- The cycling record had lasted for 55 years but we still didn't post it. These numbers seem fairly arbitrary and there will tend to be a natural plateau as sports are established and become mature. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:06, 9 July 2024 (UTC) Template:Ec
- If more people here understood Le Tour, we would have posted that cycling record, but comments made it obvious too many didn't and weren't interested in learning. HiLo48 (talk) 09:21, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- This is clearly less notable than Cavendish's record, as high jump has less news coverage than Le Tour. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:21, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- If more people here understood Le Tour, we would have posted that cycling record, but comments made it obvious too many didn't and weren't interested in learning. HiLo48 (talk) 09:21, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- The cycling record had lasted for 55 years but we still didn't post it. These numbers seem fairly arbitrary and there will tend to be a natural plateau as sports are established and become mature. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:06, 9 July 2024 (UTC) Template:Ec
- Comment The article needs a couple of references, especially in the awards sections (the awards articles are cited so this is easy to fix), and some sentences in the prose also need sources. Other than that, all fine. If I remember correctly, we post breaking of long-standing records in athletics, as well as breaking of 100m and marathon whenever they happen (been a while since Usain Bolt but marathon got broken a couple of times in the past decade). --Tone 08:26, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- I would be happy to support featuring this if the update was more extensive. I'd expect more details than Template:Tq I imagine she didn't use a particularly different technique or anything, but surely we can write something about the five-second moment in which she made history? Perhaps even just an interview quote about how she felt about it? ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 09:25, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- I used to write extensive updates on world records in athletics but got fully disparaged after an unfortunate discussion last year, so I decided to give up on it indefinitely because there's simply no point to produce content that some people don't value.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:58, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- That discussion last year was a very similar case – two world records being broken at the Meeting de Paris. We have a full article for this event – 2024 Meeting de Paris – which is more substantial and would make a better target than just one of the athletes. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:20, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- I am very sad to hear this. This was exactly what I was worried about. I have been active on this front-page feature because I hoped it would inspire people to write more detailed articles, but instead it only demotivates people who put the work in... ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 11:13, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- I used to write extensive updates on world records in athletics but got fully disparaged after an unfortunate discussion last year, so I decided to give up on it indefinitely because there's simply no point to produce content that some people don't value.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:58, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose both on WP:ITNSIGNIF and WP:ITNQUALITY. Many world records get broken frequently and don't very often meet the significance to get posted- this has way less media coverage than Mark Cavendish breaking the Tour de France record last week, which didn't get consensus to post. And Mahuchikh's article and 2024 Meeting de Paris each have 2 sentences about it, which is not enough to meet the quality threshold. Picking this world record over any others (including the other one broken at the same event) would be arbitrary as it hasn't demonstrated enough coverage. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:24, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, "Many world records get broken frequently", but this one hasn't been. That sort of comment suggests you haven't read the previous discussion. It's quite unhelpful, AND irrelevant! 10:31, 9 July 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by HiLo48 (talk • contribs)
- Over its complete history of 102 years, the average time between changes to this particular record seems to be about two years. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:19, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- But this time it was 37 years!!!!!!!!!!!! You have, in fact, just highlighted why this record SHOULD be posted HiLo48 (talk) 23:38, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Unsigned user comment- you have clearly ignored the fact that I pointed out this has not gained significant news coverage as needed for WP:ITNSIGNIF. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:36, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Over its complete history of 102 years, the average time between changes to this particular record seems to be about two years. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:19, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, "Many world records get broken frequently", but this one hasn't been. That sort of comment suggests you haven't read the previous discussion. It's quite unhelpful, AND irrelevant! 10:31, 9 July 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by HiLo48 (talk • contribs)
- Weak oppose I don't really have much of a stance on the notability of this event, though only two sentences of an update seems too little to get a blurb. Gödel2200 (talk) 11:20, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment In 2014 we posted breaking of 20-years old record in men's pole vault. Now the record was unbeaten for almost twice as long. --Jona☎ 13:36, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per Andrew and Joseph; this doesn't have nearly enough coverage or significance to warrant posting on ITN. Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:25, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose how many sports disciplines are there? a few hundreds at least, right? And each presumably keeps track of more than 1 record. so what makes this any special? "one of the longest standing in athletics" doesnt cut it for me, esp given that it was achieved not that logn ago. I'd presume most records would have stopped around late 80-s if it wasnt for doping Kasperquickly (talk) 16:31, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose as not sufficiently significant. JoseJan89 (talk) 18:06, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Altblurb For those saying the target articles need more updating, one is just an index of the previous records, and the other about the actual athlete contains several mentions of this new achievement. Not sure where else we'd need to add more in order to post. Schwinnspeed (talk) 22:55, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, a major legacy track and field record, no woman has ever jumped this high in open competition. Notable per time between record holders. Randy Kryn (talk) 23:48, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose I'm generally biased against sports-related blurbs but I don't think this is important enough. The coverage seems pretty routine. Johndavies837 (talk) 01:29, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support if the blurb targets Women's high jump world record progression, which is what the story is about. Banedon (talk) 03:25, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- There's no prose there at all, just data. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 06:47, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle - I think comparisons with the Tour de France stages record are unfair. In the high jump, you jump high. That's the objective. If you jump higher than anyone else in the competition, you win, and if you jump higher than anyone before, that's unambiguously the record. In the Tour de France, you're aiming for the lowest cumulative time, not the number of individual stages won. That's not to say the stages record isn't interesting (it is) or a great achievement (it is), but it's not raising the worldwide standard for the thing the contest actually measures, and this high jump record is. We also don't often post high jump and other athletics, relative to other sports, so it's a welcome bit of focus. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:56, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yet another support vote that completely ignores WP:ITNQUALITY- there is no article with a good enough update on this, because this WR only warrants 2 sentences in articles. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:28, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- My apologies. I have updated my !vote to be clearer. GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:38, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment all these support votes are missing WP:ITNQUALITY: Yaroslava Mahuchikh has orange tagged sections, Women's high jump world record progression is just tables and uses one source (I have orange tagged it for that), 2024 Meeting de Paris has half a sentence on this world record. Regardless of the questionable WP:ITNSIGNIF, nobody has suggested a valid target article that meets ITNQUALITY by having a large update on this event and the article being good enough. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:32, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment This is only an improvement on the previous record by 1 cm (2.10 vs 2.09 m). Yes, its technically a new world's record, but it seems such a trivial gain in the larger picture. I also tend to agree that with as many track and field events and their individual records, its probably better to focus on the event and records broken rather than a singular one, unless that clearly smashed the previous record. --Masem (t) 12:07, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak oppose I would support this if we weren't about to have the Olympics. I'm basically neutral, though, because there is a decent chance this will have rolled off in two weeks when we do post that. Kingsif (talk) 22:39, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Admin comment As long as the article has an orange maintenance tag, it's not going to hit the main page. Beyond that, I don't see consensus to post at this point anyway. Schwede66 05:58, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Question: As an Admin ddo you judge quality of comments? Some of the opposing arguments here are simply appalling and illogical HiLo48 (talk) 01:15, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Absolutely I do, Template:U. Schwede66 04:18, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- I can't speak for Schwede, nor am I an administrator, but I believe administrators are bound to honoring community consensus regardless of their personal opinion on the merits of the prevailing argument. For instance, administrator XYZ could find it ridiculous that people are arguing against the notability of a new record in the high jump (as you evidently do, and I personally agree that it is a notable record and worthy of a blurb), but if the overall consensus ultimately disagrees with XYZ's perspective, then XYZ has to accept and respect that. To do otherwise is to supervote, which goes against the decision-making process of the Wikipedia community and can be grounds for censure or even sanction.
Having said that, there are exceptions to this rule—for instance, when the consensus among participants in a discussion goes against widely-accepted Wikipedia policy. Say, for instance, a musician has an article listing each of their unreleased songs. The article is nominated for deletion for being "cruft" and people cite things like "WP:NOTINDISCRIMINATE" as a rationale for deletion. The consensus among participants is to delete, but the problem is that their rationales do not align with Wikipedia's inclusion policy; besides, the list itself is both well-written and adequately sourced, and was actually designated as a featured article at the time of the nomination. On that basis, the closing administrator determined that there was no consensus to delete the article despite the preponderance of votes against its inclusion, and his decision was upheld at WP:DRV. This is not a hypothetical situation, by the way—this was exactly what happened at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of unreleased Britney Spears songs. Yes, that discussion happened nearly 12 full years ago, but the principles adhered to at the time of its closure remain applicable today. Kurtis (talk) 05:13, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Bur what we have here is a record that hadn't been broken for 37 years with somebody arguing against it because on average such records are broken every two years. That simply not logical, and must be ignored. HiLo48 (talk) 05:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC) HiLo48 (talk) 05:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- At this time of year, the breaking of sporting records seems to be a daily occurrence. I gave a few examples above and, in my own casual viewing since then, I've noticed youngest-ever goalscorer in men’s major tournament history and Wimbledon's longest women's semifinal. And public interest in those records seems significantly greater than the high jump one. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:59, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Given that this one hadn't been broken for 37 years, surely you can see how irrelevant that comment is. HiLo48 (talk) 07:22, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- The previous youngest goal scorer was Pelé in 1958, so that's 66 years ago. Is the number of years significant? What's the magic number? Andrew🐉(talk) 08:34, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:Ping I'm going to disagree on the notion expressed above that admins should "judge the quality of comments" when assessing ITN consensus. Unlike other areas such as AFD and RM, where there are clearly-defined policies and guidelines at play, and closing admins use those as a lens through which to view the discussion, ITN has basically no rules. Other than quality requirements and those labelled as WP:ITN/R, and I suppose a basic requirement that a topic must be "in the news" there are no guidelines as to what is and isn't posted, and each story is judged by participants on its own merits. Ultimately, if editors aren't supporting this by giving it a clear majority of support votes then it won't be posted, regardless of how important you personally think it is. — Amakuru (talk) 08:45, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- I do disregard votes likes "provincial sports trivia"; stuff that is without any basis of fact. Why would I give any weight to that? Schwede66 10:22, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:Tquote Well, that explains a lot. Kurtis (talk) 10:37, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:Ping I'm going to disagree on the notion expressed above that admins should "judge the quality of comments" when assessing ITN consensus. Unlike other areas such as AFD and RM, where there are clearly-defined policies and guidelines at play, and closing admins use those as a lens through which to view the discussion, ITN has basically no rules. Other than quality requirements and those labelled as WP:ITN/R, and I suppose a basic requirement that a topic must be "in the news" there are no guidelines as to what is and isn't posted, and each story is judged by participants on its own merits. Ultimately, if editors aren't supporting this by giving it a clear majority of support votes then it won't be posted, regardless of how important you personally think it is. — Amakuru (talk) 08:45, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- The previous youngest goal scorer was Pelé in 1958, so that's 66 years ago. Is the number of years significant? What's the magic number? Andrew🐉(talk) 08:34, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Bur what we have here is a record that hadn't been broken for 37 years with somebody arguing against it because on average such records are broken every two years. That simply not logical, and must be ignored. HiLo48 (talk) 05:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC) HiLo48 (talk) 05:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Question: As an Admin ddo you judge quality of comments? Some of the opposing arguments here are simply appalling and illogical HiLo48 (talk) 01:15, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability. A particularly long-standing world record in women's track and field, in one of the original Olympic disciplines. Nsk92 (talk) 13:15, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
July 7
editTemplate:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 7 Template:Cob
RD: Bengt I. Samuelsson
editTemplate:ITN candidate Swedish biochemist and Nobel laureate. 240F:7A:6253:1:95E7:6EC1:9755:1E3E (talk) 13:13, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose article is orange-tagged. The Kip (contribs) 17:33, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose two orange tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 06:10, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Most of the wikibio is unsourced. After the intro, all remaining footnotes can be found at the end of the sentence on his death. Please add REFs to the rest of the wikibio. --PFHLai (talk) 00:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Jane McAlevey
editTemplate:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 02:25, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Unreferenced date and place of birth. Schwede66 10:37, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support That has been rectified. Bremps... 13:31, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Looks ready. Thriley (talk) 20:01, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 01:59, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) 2024 French legislative election
editTemplate:ITN candidate Unexpected result, as the National Rally and their allies were originally predicted to get the most seats, but only came in third place after the NPF and Ensemble. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 20:08, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait. We still need a clearer idea of what the results were; this is a much murkier situation than last week's UK vote. (where Labour clearly won a decisive majority that lined up with expectations; contrast here where we have a surprise result) Also, given that even the article linked for "relative majority" itself is called Plurality, I would recommend the blurb actually use that to avoid confusion. Nottheking (talk) 21:57, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
Wait the results sections is missing information once filled support Shadow4dark (talk) 20:22, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Is there a result yet? I was literally just looking at a couple of news sites, that says the far-right and fascists weren't doing as well as expected, but I didn't see any breakdowns. But hang on - I'm no expert on France politics - but the New Popular Front is alliance of over 50 political parties - including the Pirate Party and the Guadeloupe Communist Party? I'm not sure I get this one, compared to most countries where there's only up to a half-dozen viable parties. Nfitz (talk) 21:36, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- There are indeed many parties under the NPF, although only four of them (La France Insoumise, the Socialist Party, The Greens and the French Communist Party) have a substantial presence in the National Assembly. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 21:51, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, I'm the primary contributor to this article. There isn't an officially aggregated national result yet, but it will be published by the Ministry of the Interior later here and added once that happens. The NFP is a broad electoral alliance of the main parties of the left as well as numerous smaller formations which had their candidates nominated in a small number of districts, as depicted here. It's an unusual situation, but with such a short timeline this was agreed upon quickly to allow the parties of the left to have the best chance of getting candidates elected rather than splitting the vote in the two-round electoral system. 73.169.176.209 (talk) 22:00, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- How long does it take for the vote to be finalized by the government? Here it can take weeks, even if the incumbent conceded within an hour of the polls closing. Surely in the interim, putting in preliminary results from a reliable source suffices in many other places. Should be the same, unless the Pirates steal some poll boxes. Nfitz (talk) 00:57, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I missed this reply, but results are mostly set here (calculated for the alliances as noted in footnotes B and C, using the Ministry of Interior reference). 73.169.176.209 (talk) 01:58, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- How long does it take for the vote to be finalized by the government? Here it can take weeks, even if the incumbent conceded within an hour of the polls closing. Surely in the interim, putting in preliminary results from a reliable source suffices in many other places. Should be the same, unless the Pirates steal some poll boxes. Nfitz (talk) 00:57, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I've added alt1, which to me is just the best non-confusing way to explain this result. I do wish to wait for results to be updates to a certain degree we shouldn't post a blurb saying "x coalition won" or similar when most results are not confirmed to prove this yet on our end. DarkSide830 (talk) 22:07, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait According to the table in the National results section, 501 seats in the national assembly have yet to be announced, so it is too early to post. Gödel2200 (talk) 22:57, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- The table should be updated, all but three seats have been called right now (according to Le Monde). Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 23:07, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- They're not aggregated by the Ministry of the Interior just yet (various news outlets create their own classifications of candidates, so the counts of votes and seats won tend to differ between them); we've always used the Ministry of the Interior ones because they're official classifications and the others are unofficial classifications. Also added alt3 but not official until tomorrow 73.169.176.209 (talk) 23:13, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- The table should be updated, all but three seats have been called right now (according to Le Monde). Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 23:07, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support once final results are put forward This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 00:27, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Provisional results have been posted and only slight shifts should be expected at this point. 73.169.176.209 (talk) 01:32, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Alt II pending the appointment of the new prime minister. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:40, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
.svg){kind=link}
- I struck alt3 (after proposing it) because it might not happen anytime soon. 73.169.176.209 (talk) 03:31, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Propose ALTV unless a government is somehow formed. The Kip (contribs) 02:45, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'd go with this if it becomes clear in the next few days that they are not going to be able to form a new government. For now I'd stick to Alt II until the dust settles. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:04, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support any of the proposed blurbs, with alt2 or 5 as my preference. Would support blurbing again if/when a new PM is chosen, since even though Attal resigned (and is continuing as caretaker) it doesn't seem like this will be resolved anytime soon. Davey2116 (talk) 03:00, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support alt2 or alt4 once it’s ready Those seem like the best blurbs. However, the “Potential outcomes and pre-election comments” subsection in the “Aftermath” section seems like it’s awkward now that the election has happened. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I took a stab at addressing those issues here, feel free to trim or reorganise further. 73.169.176.209 (talk) 05:38, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Deadlock is the word preferred by headlines such as "French Election Yields Deadlock..." and "France Faces Deadlock...". What's going to happen now seems quite unclear. Will France have to resort to a civil servant as PM like the Netherlands or what? One detail of language which is interesting is the word insoumise which appears in the name of one of the many parties. This seems to mean "unruly" and "insubordinate" and the result seems to confirm France's reputation for being ungovernable. We should avoid a blurb which gives the impression that someone has won and perhaps wait until the outcome is clearer. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:07, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:Lang means "unbowed", not "unruly" or "insubordinate". 2001:BB6:47ED:FA58:C4C2:46FA:6F20:8082 (talk) 08:54, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- It literally means not soumise or not submissive. The exact meaning depends on the context but it indicates that they won't be compliant or obedient, i.e. ungovernable. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:14, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:Lang means "unbowed", not "unruly" or "insubordinate". 2001:BB6:47ED:FA58:C4C2:46FA:6F20:8082 (talk) 08:54, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- That's not my understanding of this at all, and appears to be a fringe interpretation. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- My understanding comes from the Collins-Robert French Dictionary which is not fringe. It gives the meanings as refractory, rebellious, insubordinate, undefeated, unsubdued. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:53, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- That's not my understanding of this at all, and appears to be a fringe interpretation. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think the name of one of the parties should be taken as evidence that France has become ungovernable... Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 07:13, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- The NYT report says "France looked near ungovernable ... The result was that ... no governing coalition appeared immediately conceivable..." while the FT headline is "France heads back to its postwar era of ungovernability". Andrew🐉(talk) 11:15, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think the name of one of the parties should be taken as evidence that France has become ungovernable... Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 07:13, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted - I've gone with a bit of a hybrid of some of the alts above. It's been discussed before that we don't use the term plurality at ITN, as it's not widely understood globally, and I thought worth noting that the NPR also didn't achieve a majority in addition to saying they won the most seats. — Amakuru (talk) 08:56, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think that's a good solution. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:01, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Good hybrid, thanks! Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 07:13, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- 2024 French legislative election currently has Lua-related template errors (likely due to having too many templates), which prevents most references from displaying correctly. Felt like this was important to note here given that the article is currently linked from the Main Page. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 11:41, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
July 6
editTemplate:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 6 Template:Cob
RD: André Drege
editTemplate:ITN candidate Norwegian cyclist. --Engineerchange (talk) 04:18, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose It's a stub with a list of races and most of the prose is about his death. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:24, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
(Attention needed) RD: Joe Egan (musician)
editTemplate:ITN candidate Scottish musician and co-founder of Stealers Wheel. 240F:7A:6253:1:38AB:9905:A2DA:8D62 (talk) 01:15, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose not ready, article needs expansion. PrinceofPunjabTALK 06:13, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - I agree with previous comment. Little more than a stub in substance. Ref (chew)(do) 06:59, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support article is now fully sourced. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 20:27, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Khyree Jackson
editTemplate:ITN candidate NFL cornerback recent death. --Engineerchange (talk) 18:26, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support RIP, a tragic death. Article is in a good enough shape. PrinceofPunjabTALK 14:59, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support nothing holding back this article about an NFL player. Bremps... 21:07, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support and André Drege too. Both sportsmen of the same age who had their lives tragically cut short on the same day. Both articles seem good, though Jackson's is more detailed. 1779Days (talk) 23:11, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- We can nominate that one independently. Bremps... 01:41, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Date and place of birth are both unreferenced. Schwede66 10:35, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:Reply Fixed. Typically on NFL player articles that information is pulled from the ESPN or NFL biography and not appropriately cited. --Engineerchange (talk) 16:02, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 03:02, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Mirta Díaz-Balart
editTemplate:ITN candidate First wife of Fidel Castro. Gödel2200 (talk) 18:11, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose given the lack of detail in her article, which is rated Start class. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 03:51, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait there are some more references needed otherwise article is okay. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:00, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait More citations needed. Bremps... 22:27, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) Masoud Pezeshkian elected President of Iran
editTemplate:ITN candidate He is elected president of Iran. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 06:02, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- comment blurb should mention that this "election" was held by a totalitarian government headed by the dictatorial ayatollahs. Else we risk presenting it as a genuine expression of the will of the people and not a fake election no different from those under the regimes of dprk, china or soviet union which wikipedia AFAIK previously did NOT post Kasperquickly (talk) 06:07, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- All Iranian presidential elections since 2009 have been posted to ITN. Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 07:11, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- As far as you know wikipedia didn't post any Soviet elections to ITN? That's a bold claim. --2001:8003:1C20:8C00:F211:A254:7DA9:FB24 (talk) 08:47, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Issue is not very notable , anyone can read the whole article if they want to know election legitimacy AlexBobCharles (talk) 13:53, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:Tq
- ...you are aware Wikipedia was founded some years after the USSR ceased to exist, right?
- Your personalized commentary is becoming indicative of an attitude unfit for ITN/C, this isn't the first time it's happened. The Kip (contribs) 15:54, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- nods* Concur with The Kip... This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 03:35, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- We did post Xi Jinping's securing of a third term. Bremps... 21:09, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support It seems that there was a significant choice between Pezeshkian and his main hardline opponent. The article is short but seems adequate in providing basic info for our readers. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:41, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality article has three orange tags. Will change to support once quality issues are fixed. Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 07:14, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose bold article has three orange tags and Masoud Pezeshkian's article have some paragraphs without footnotes. PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:54, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support I want to note that Pezeshkian is the first reformist candidate for quite some time (I've seen The AtlanticTemplate:'s Arash Azizi place that date at 2005, which was the end of Khatami's term), and noting the state that the reformist parties have been as of the 2020s. Might be a potentially good idea to note that he is the reformist candidate in the blurb. Ornithoptera (talk) 08:04, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Should note that Pezeshkian is a reformist .I will note that some of the bold articles sources dont seem to very reliable and are close to the Iran government. AlexBobCharles (talk) 13:09, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose due to three orange tags on the article. Also, there is no need to mention that Pezeshkian is a reformist in the blurb. All we should say is the result of the election. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:34, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait because Pezeshkian's article is incomplete and needs further detail. 2601:280:5C01:B7E0:E19C:E87A:9597:AE72 (talk) 14:52, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality as target article is orange-tagged. The Kip (contribs) 16:27, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support; proposed altblurb to use the "declared winner" language we tend to use for dubious elections This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 03:32, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support; on notability --GodNey (talk) 08:56, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support with current wording; elections in Iran aren't free, but they are fair. No need to use "declared" or similar phrases. AryKun (talk) 19:46, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- There's serious doubts about the fairness of elections as well, they possibly manipulated numbers in the first round, there is valid sources supporting this idea. 3000MAX (talk) 21:06, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support for its notability. Although the article is currently orange-tagged, this is related to the lack of attention from enough fluent Persian speakers (or people able to use auto-translators sufficiently well). The benefit of the extra attention of ITN may help improve the quality of the article sufficiently to justify the removing the tags, so an exception to the general rule may be acceptable in this case. Boud (talk) 20:04, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality this election is WP:ITNR, so only consideration is article quality (thus all the "support on notability" votes are irrelevant). And there are 3 valid orange tags that need fixing. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:50, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - by which criterion is this WP:ITN/R? The government bit says Template:Xt, but our article President of Iran notes that Template:Xt. Thus this role is somewhat more of a figurehead and should be judged on its own merits rather than being given an automatic pass. — Amakuru (talk) 09:22, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I would imagine it was marked as ITNR because it was thought to be a general election. Looking at the three different elections that took place in Iran this year, it is not at all clear to me which one was the general election, so this might not be ITNR. Gödel2200 (talk) 11:34, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- The president of Iran does not hold the highest political authority, but does have many of the powers of an executive president, and is not just a figurehead. Among the Reformist presidents, Khatami was generally seen as having a big influence; Rouhani's reformist actions were generally seen as less successful; Ahmedinejad's role as a hardliner president was generally seen as him being mostly in control of executive power. Relations between the West and Iran have changed significantly between Reformist and hardliner Iranian presidents. This does satisfy ITN/R in any reasonable interpretation of real political power and both national and international effects. Boud (talk) 19:03, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think there is any question of whether this election should be posted. But ITNR specifically says changes in the people who administer the executive of their country qualify, and according to the List of current heads of state and government article, that position is the supreme leader, not the president, so the election would technically not qualify for ITNR under that clause. Gödel2200 (talk) 21:23, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- In Iran, the president is the head of government. See President of Iran. He chooses all ministers and cabinet members. The supreme leader is the head of state, but not the head of government. 175.159.120.175 (talk) 09:01, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- The issue with ITN/R is that it assumes that only one position (in this case, the supreme leader) wields all of the executive power; it neglects to consider the fact that there can be other positions with some form of executive power (in this case, the president) that the main position itself lacks. The ITN/R status of "2023 Singaporean presidential election", which had a similar context, was debated under the same rationale (and later removed), though it was still ultimately posted. =JaventheAldericky= (Would you like to talk to me?) 14:25, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think there is any question of whether this election should be posted. But ITNR specifically says changes in the people who administer the executive of their country qualify, and according to the List of current heads of state and government article, that position is the supreme leader, not the president, so the election would technically not qualify for ITNR under that clause. Gödel2200 (talk) 21:23, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- The president of Iran does not hold the highest political authority, but does have many of the powers of an executive president, and is not just a figurehead. Among the Reformist presidents, Khatami was generally seen as having a big influence; Rouhani's reformist actions were generally seen as less successful; Ahmedinejad's role as a hardliner president was generally seen as him being mostly in control of executive power. Relations between the West and Iran have changed significantly between Reformist and hardliner Iranian presidents. This does satisfy ITN/R in any reasonable interpretation of real political power and both national and international effects. Boud (talk) 19:03, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I would imagine it was marked as ITNR because it was thought to be a general election. Looking at the three different elections that took place in Iran this year, it is not at all clear to me which one was the general election, so this might not be ITNR. Gödel2200 (talk) 11:34, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb 2 as the orange tags have been addressed. =JaventheAldericky= (Would you like to talk to me?) 14:02, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb 2 Article looks good now. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:42, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb 2 per supports on notability and INT/R both. Tags are now gone; it’s ready to post. Jusdafax (talk) 08:35, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb 2 per above.VR (Please ping on reply) 15:54, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. SpencerT•C 02:59, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
July 5
editTemplate:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 5 Template:Cob
(Posted) RD: Liana Isakadze
editTemplate:ITN candidate Prominent Georgian violinist, child prodigy, all over Europe early, then also conductor and artistic director of the Chamber Orchestra of Georgia, festival creator internationally. The article was practically a mirror of her website, which is no longer live but there in an archived copy in German. Much better since we got a Strad obit today. The long lists of conductors and colleagues are not referenced other than her site, but are credible I think. Help by someone knowing Georgian wanted. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:56, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Slight oppose The stuff about Facebook is uncited. Listing a paragraph of names isn't the best way to present info to a reader. Otherwise, the article is alright. Bremps... 12:15, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- The facebook thing can only be cited to her website, which I try to avoid. We could do it, or drop it, or find another ref. - I hate these lists, I really do, but - as I said above - I have no time to look for more detailed records of her music making. Repeating: help wanted. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:22, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I added the cite to her website. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:38, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- ... and also another, and began recordings. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:44, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- We have now several recordings, with a few reviews, Bremps. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:03, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Great work on that, I'll Support. The name-dropping paragraph is still not ideal but I don't think it's bad enough to prevent it from being posted. Bremps... 23:47, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted to RD. Good depth of coverage, fully referenced. SpencerT•C 02:54, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Stanley Moss
editTemplate:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 16:45, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Question Are the books in his bibliography fine if they aren't cited (as they are effectively their own citation)? Anyway, the Amazon links certainly need to be removed so Oppose for now. Bremps... 04:03, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- They are their own citation, but they require ISBNs. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:14, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose The even more fundamental problem is that the article is a stub, and we don't post those. Schwede66 05:53, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Vic Seixas
editTemplate:ITN candidate American tennis player. 240F:7A:6253:1:64C5:9819:81E5:D319 (talk) 23:43, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support article is in a good shape. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:04, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- The stats tables after the prose could use some sources, please. Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 01:11, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Jon Landau (film producer)
editTemplate:ITN candidate American film producer. 240F:7A:6253:1:64C5:9819:81E5:D319 (talk) 23:16, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Awards and Filmography section needs sourcing and Career section needs a lot of expansion. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:05, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
July 4
editTemplate:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 4 Template:Cob
(Posted) United Kingdom general election
editTemplate:ITN candidate Putting this out in front so we can get it ready as and when results come in overnight This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 22:34, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Clearly, we're going to need sources to use the second blurb re being a landslide, though I know the exit polls suggest it will be that way. --Masem (t) 22:46, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- BBC says "Labour landslide predicted", as do most other sources This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 22:50, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not just the BBC. Sky News, the Telegraph, the Guardian ... in fact most UK news sources ... are already using it on their front pages (although at the moment it of course says "predicted" or "expected"). But yes, stick with the original blurb, we can always change it later. Black Kite (talk) 22:51, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Meh. I'm not going to get worked up over it, but FWIW I don't recall the word "landslide" ever being used in an election blurb before. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:03, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- No, we rarely use such terms on the Main Page in my experience. Granted, I have been away for a while. If anything, we may choose to use a less bombastic phrasing such as "significant gain in seats", or something more British. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 00:34, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not just the BBC. Sky News, the Telegraph, the Guardian ... in fact most UK news sources ... are already using it on their front pages (although at the moment it of course says "predicted" or "expected"). But yes, stick with the original blurb, we can always change it later. Black Kite (talk) 22:51, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- BBC says "Labour landslide predicted", as do most other sources This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 22:50, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support original blurb. It's factual and to the point. We can update tomorrow after Sir Kier becomes PM. The votes are still being counted but there is no doubt who won. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:49, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support either original Blurb or AltBlurb II. (later purely among the implication that's part of ITN/R: that this will mean Keir Starmer becomes PM) Obviously, we'll be waiting for the official results (rather than just the exit polls) and such to make it official. Article appears to be in great shape; hopefully this quality will be maintained through all the official results being added. I'm somewhat neutral (mildly opposed) on whether we should bother describing the margin of the election. However, if there's an applicable superlative, (e.g, it break's Labour's old record for most seats won) then that would have a much more convincing argument to be mentioned on the front page. Nottheking (talk) 01:22, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support original blurb as it is the most concise. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 02:01, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support original blurb but wait until the full results come out. I don't really see much of a need for the blurb to indicate that the result was a landslide; the reader will see that immediately after going to the page. The blurb only needs to state who won the election. Gödel2200 (talk) 02:33, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support original blurb and wait Good article, important event. Results are pretty clear but post after the votes are fully done being counted Hungry403 (talk) 03:16, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think its fair to call it a landslide now Hungry403 (talk) 04:27, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Sunak just conceded, effectively. Toss-up between original blurb and alt-1. Moscow Mule (talk) 03:46, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support original blurb unless the ultimate seat count surpasses Labour's old record for most seats won, in which case support alt-1 or alt-2 and add the superlative, per Nottheking. FlipandFlopped ツ 04:08, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support original blurb as it's now official. Oppose alt blurbs until sources use the phrase "landslide" — Czello (music) 04:10, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support, with "landslide" wording; they're on course to 400, which is Blair numbers. Sceptre (talk) 04:16, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted As Labour has already got more than 50 per cent of the electorate seats (362 right now, with 326 needed for a majority), it's probably safe to post ALT0 at this point. I don't think it'll be long before "landslide" can be added to the blurb. Schwede66 04:26, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- There have been other "landslide" elections. Have we ever used that term in an election blurb? -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:35, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not at all. I don't think we've ever done such a thing, and the Conservatives arguably won a landslide last time. I'm a little baffled as to why Schwede66 has suggested this and strongly recommend that no admin should change this. — Amakuru (talk) 07:09, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- There have been other "landslide" elections. Have we ever used that term in an election blurb? -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:35, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support ALT or ALT2 blurb as Labour has now won 400 seats, I think we're now ready to add "landslide" now. 92.27.253.187 (talk) 05:34, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support landslide. Davey2116 (talk) 06:18, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support alt-1 as it is more condense. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 06:48, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Majority would be a better word than "landslide". ITN should save the word "landslide" for the actual landslides that kill lots of people (they seem to have stopped counting in New Guinea). For elections, we should stick to words that more accurately describe the result such as supermajority. Simply winning a majority is a significant achievement when so many countries have systems that require complex coalitions such as we see in the current Netherlands blurb. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:53, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- We don't generally use the term supermajority for this, in the UK. Secretlondon (talk) 07:25, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- That doesn't matter because Labour don't seem to have quite that many seats (433 is two thirds of 650). The point is to use appropriate technical terms rather than colourful journalistic metaphors. In the Westminster system, the key thing is to get a "working majority". Andrew🐉(talk) 07:46, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- We don't generally use the term supermajority for this, in the UK. Secretlondon (talk) 07:25, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong oppose landslide or majority or anything else. Longstanding precedent is that we don't attempt to add "nuance" or editorialisation to election results, even those that are "disputed" or "near-unanimous" or whatever, and there's no reason to deviate from that here. The current simple blurb that they won is completely sufficient and should not be changed. — Amakuru (talk) 07:07, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- The convention in Britain is that a 100-seat majority is a landslide; Labour have won a 170-seat majority. If anything qualifies, this does. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:18, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- What convention? See Landslides in the United Kingdom. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:59, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- That seems a bit disingenuous, Andrew Davidson. See United Kingdom general election records#Most seats won by party (1945–present). The current result is just barely below the all-time post-war record. (though I don't see a need to change the blurb). Nfitz (talk) 21:57, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- What convention? See Landslides in the United Kingdom. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:59, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- The convention in Britain is that a 100-seat majority is a landslide; Labour have won a 170-seat majority. If anything qualifies, this does. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:18, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose landslide as an editorialising term. "Supermajority" isn't great either as the Parliament does not operate with a supermajority system as far as I know (no equivalent of, say, the 60-vote filibuster in the US Senate). Stating that Labour won a majority by themselves (and, when confirmed, that Starmer becomes PM) is the most objective thing to do. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 07:39, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- In the Westminster system, a substantial majority is significant because it means that the PM can force through legislation without having to appease rebels and rivals in his own party. See the US House of Representatives for the difficulty of getting things done with a narrow majority. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:53, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - I find it funny this was nominated before any seat was even called. It might be good to mention just how historic this win is, the worst result for the Conservative Party I believe in its entire 200 year existence. This is a pretty crazy result as the dominant party in UK politics is going extinct. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 08:30, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- The popular vote for the Conservatives was still quite substantial while the vote for Labour was little changed. The result in seats was a typical quirk of the first-past-the-post system. The main novelty is the advent of Reform UK which got the next largest popular vote and so split the centre-right vote.
- What helped Labour is that their leader looks and sounds like a conservative -- a safe pair of hands, rather than a radical like Corbyn, a wild child like Boris or a city slicker like Rishi. It's interesting that our blurb calls him "Sir Keir Starmer", like a "knight of the shires". Andrew🐉(talk) 08:53, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- I see that the title has been removed now as admins tussle over the blurb. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:58, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Pull. While obviously this is notable, 2024_United_Kingdom_general_election#Results is not updated. 12:03, 5 July 2024 (UTC) ~~ Jessintime (talk) 12:08, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Those look like numerical results once the full complete tally is known. The results that Labour won was based on factors like sufficient tallies from the various locals as well as candidates conceding that they lost, all reported in RSes. — Masem (t) 12:19, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:U There's currently 2 seats to go (out of 650), until those are declared, these "results" figures don't exist. But that doesn't change the outcome that Labour have won, a fact that was confirmed in reliable sources before this was posted. And the article has been updated with this information and aftermath, and so WP:ITNQUALITY is met. We have posted other countries in a similar state i.e. where 95+% of results are known and the election result is assured. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:35, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Standard practice for ITN has been to post once the general outcome has been confirmed, since it's rare to instantly get total figures for every single constituent election from any country. There will always be stragglers, so yes, there will be some small gaps in the data as everyone in the world waits for those stragglers. However, it remains that all the RSes have reported that Labour has won a majority of seats, and that won't change. And Keir Starmer has already been appointed Prime Minister. Nottheking (talk) 20:29, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'll just reply here since this is pretty much moot. My concern is that we posted an article on an election with an entire results table left blank. Did we really need to wait until all 650 seats were called before updating it? I've seen other stories held up for far less. ~~ Jessintime (talk) 21:04, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Those look like numerical results once the full complete tally is known. The results that Labour won was based on factors like sufficient tallies from the various locals as well as candidates conceding that they lost, all reported in RSes. — Masem (t) 12:19, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
July 3
editTemplate:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 3 Template:Cob
RD: Jack Rowell
edit- Oppose There are CN tags. User:MAL MALDIVE (talk) 11:31, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose multiple cn tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:55, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose issue persists. Bremps... 22:30, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) Mark Cavendish
editTemplate:Atop Template:ITN candidate Paul W (talk) 20:19, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Cool sports trivia, but not what is typically posted at ITN. Natg 19 (talk) 20:22, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose The result of the Tour de France is ITN/R, but individual achievements are way under the bar for notability. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 20:28, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Aficionados regard the result of the Tour de France as much more then the first person to crosss the finish line, but the non-cycling world is generally ignorant of such detail. So sadly, I agree. HiLo48 (talk) 07:30, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Neutral Probably under the bar as a stand-alone entry. However, given it’s broken a 49 year old record would suggest it’s mentioned at race summary e.g. “In the 2024 Tour de France, Joe Bloggs wins the General Classification, while Mark Cavendish breaks the record for stage wins” 92.17.186.116 (talk) 22:18, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Agree The tour isn't over and he could win a 36th or 37th, and at the conclusion of the race that number can be announced as part of the blurb. Kcmastrpc (talk) 22:41, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Also agree, solid suggestion. Kingsif (talk) 11:45, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support It's a monumental achievement that has taken 50 years to break. It's not trivia. There's often major records on ITN, sports or otherwise (longest person in space etc) Torqueing (talk) 23:02, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. Trivia, Better suited to DYK. — Amakuru (talk) 23:16, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- It can't go on DYK, the article is already a GA and is too long to be expanded fivefold. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 23:46, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose While an impressive achievement, the fact there are only a few sentences of an update on each of the linked articles means that this is not suitable for ITN. Gödel2200 (talk) 00:06, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Per above. While its impressive that he broke a near 50 year old record, these kinds of personal achievements aren't notable enough for the ITN. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 02:57, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. This is a huge 49 years old record, and yes it's newsworthy. Eddy Merckx should be mention in the blurb too. Mark Cavendish breaks Eddy Merckx’s 49-years-old record for most career Tour de France stage wins with 35th victory. - Eugen Simion 14 (talk) 06:37, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose, while impressive, this still counts as sports trivia in view of ITN. For TDF, we post the winner. --Tone 07:12, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support a record that has stood for a long time being broken, and a target article Mark Cavendish that's a GA. This is more in the news than the eventual TdF winners usually are (because it's a record that has stood for nearly 50 years that was thought unbreakable for most of that time), and that article is nowhere near the quality of Cavendish's article either. Monumental achievement with worldwide coverage, which is higher enough to meet the threshold of WP:ITNSIGNIF. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:01, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong oppose Winning a stage in a multiple-day cycling race has absolutely no meaning. One may not win a single stage but eventually win the race. I don't see a reason to post a meaningless record. If it were a record set at one-day classics, it'd be a much stronger argument for posting, but it's clearly not. Note also that he's not finished half of the Tour de France editions he entered and was ranked well below 100th place in all editions he finished, so it's completely worthless to talk about any notable record here.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:24, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- He's a sprinter, and they often don't complete all three weeks, different physiology. Where he finishes in the general classification is a complete irrelevance. Ericoides (talk) 12:15, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- That's why one-day classics exist – to make sprinters more competitive. A sprinter breaking a record in a race that he can barely finish is completely irrelevant.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:55, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- To claim "Winning a stage in a multiple-day cycling race has absolutely no meaning" suggests you have absolutely no understanding of cycling. See today's L'Equipe, which only devotes seven pages to the Cavendish record. Ericoides (talk) 13:21, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Indeed. I'm not personally supporting this item as of sufficient encyclopaedic interest for ITN, but the achievement itself certainly isn't insignificant. Stage wins on the Tour de France are a big deal and treated as such in reliable sources. Wikipedians' opinions on their relevance is what's "meaningless" here. — Amakuru (talk) 16:22, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:Reply I’ve been avidly following cycling about 18 years now, and that’s why I know that this record isn’t significant at all. In multiple-day cycling races, time is what counts, not the number of stage wins. You may say whatever you want about my understanding of cycling and cite zillion sources stating that this is a big achievement, but that won’t change the established fact that these stage victories won’t help Cavendish ever win Tour de France. This record is trivial as Ronnie O’Sullivan’s 1,000 century breaks achieved in 2019 or LeBron James breaking Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s long-standing record for most points in the NBA.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:45, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- He's not trying to win the Tour; it's an event within an event. As David Millar said in his ITV commentary this afternoon, "the Tour de France is the world championships for sprinters." Ericoides (talk) 19:10, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- To claim "Winning a stage in a multiple-day cycling race has absolutely no meaning" suggests you have absolutely no understanding of cycling. See today's L'Equipe, which only devotes seven pages to the Cavendish record. Ericoides (talk) 13:21, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- That's why one-day classics exist – to make sprinters more competitive. A sprinter breaking a record in a race that he can barely finish is completely irrelevant.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:55, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- He's a sprinter, and they often don't complete all three weeks, different physiology. Where he finishes in the general classification is a complete irrelevance. Ericoides (talk) 12:15, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - This is trivia. Winning a record number of tours would be worth mentioning in the tour result post (which is, as noted, ITNR), but this is a mere footnote. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:02, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Per all above. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 11:47, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose minor sports trivia. An impressive personal achievement but we can't post every similar record in every sport. When the race concludes, the winner can be posted per WP:ITNR. I recommend you work on improving the 2024 Tour de France article so that will be ready to go e.g. by adding prose summaries of each stage. Modest Genius talk 11:49, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support An amazing achievement, transcending the sport. Ericoides (talk) 12:18, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Dismissing this as trivia is absolute rubbish. The most notable cycling sporting event in the world has had a longstanding record broken that will go unchallenged for a very long time. The closest competitor to challenge his record is Tadej Pogačar who only has 12 stage wins at the moment. Kcmastrpc (talk) 13:02, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Final note, after searching the archives I found numerous examples of prior posting of notable sports records being broken, so I don't see how there isn't precedence for posting this in some form or another. Kcmastrpc (talk) 13:10, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Records based on competing and winning (or whatever the aspect) a number of times, which the chances of improving simply increase with the person participating in more events, are records that are ripe to be broken and not really fair. More approach records that would make sense are breaking race times or other measurable factors in a competitive sport, or achieving a certain type of scoring record within a single game and/or season. But as others have said, when the race is done and we post the result (per ITNR), it makes sense to possibly include this record too. — Masem (t) 16:31, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Final note, after searching the archives I found numerous examples of prior posting of notable sports records being broken, so I don't see how there isn't precedence for posting this in some form or another. Kcmastrpc (talk) 13:10, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Strong oppose I guess you had to be there. Call back when someone actually wins the race. CoatCheck (talk) 21:55, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) 2024 Ukrainian coup attempt allegations
editTemplate:Atop Template:ITN candidate I noticed that nobody was talking about a foiled coup yesterday in Ukraine that major news outlets are talking about so I decided to make a page for it, I feel that this is just as notable as any other coup and should be included in the news. Scu ba (talk) 00:46, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Huh. A quite worrying development of the ongoing war, but the (alleged) coup wasn't actually attempted, so oppose on notability. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 00:48, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sadly oppose per above. poor zelenskyy Ion.want.uu (talk) 14:49, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose There have been a few assassination plots targeting the president as well over the past 2 years. And I believe there was a coup plot foiled shortly before the war. So unless something is at least attempted, like in Bolivia, I don't think it's worth posting. Scaramouche33 (talk) 05:05, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose respectfully. It seems like this was simply the arrest of four alleged Russophilic activists who were discussing a coup plot via instant messages. An actual attempted coup that could pose a real threat to Zelenskyy would definitely be notable, but an alleged coup plot that had already failed before anything could have even been attempted is not big enough to warrant a separate blurb for an event already covered in Ongoing. Vanilla Wizard 💙 12:01, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose This would only not be covered by ongoing if the coup had actually happened. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:21, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per Vanilla Wizard. I'm not convinced this is notable enough for a stand-alone article, let alone ITN. Modest Genius talk 14:59, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
July 2
editTemplate:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 2 Template:Cob
(Posted) RD: Rick Cluff
editTemplate:ITN candidate Canadian Radio host and journalist. Ktin (talk) 14:54, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article quality seems alright. Bremps... 20:46, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 02:47, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Jean Daubigny
editTemplate:ITN candidate French civil servant and criminal convicted of tax evasion. Jmanlucas (talk) 05:35, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support meets bare minimum requirement. PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:57, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- It has a deprecated controversy section. Probably not postable as is. Bremps... 20:46, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Aydos Sadykov
editTemplate:ITN candidate Kazakh opposition figure who died after an assassination attempt in Kyiv. Article will need some sourcing work. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:33, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose One of the sections does not cite any sources. Needs ref improve. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 17:06, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support I've fixed the last of the CN tags and it appears the page is very well sourced now. I'll ping @MAL MALDIVE to see if they would like to change their opinion. Jmanlucas (talk) 01:59, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Yes, after the fix, i would support. Looks like the article is in a good standard. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 04:36, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose biography section have some unsourced statements. PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:58, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) BB(5) discovery
editTemplate:Atop Template:ITN candidate I guess the article needs work to be understandable to non-experts and should highlight more about the new discovery, but I think this is a big deal for computer science and mathematics. It's been 41 years since progress was made on this problem, it closely relates to the limits of mathematical knowledge and mathematical proof, it was a big online volunteer collaboration over several years, and it's one of the first new mathematical results to be formalized in a proof assistant contemporaneously with its announcement (which helped other mathematicians be more confident more quickly that the result was correct). It's also very likely the largest Busy Beaver number that humanity will ever be able to discover. So this is potentially the only progress on this problem that Wikipedia will ever be able to announce! Schoen (talk) 23:25, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support just beat me too it! Big thing in computer science tho Ion.want.uu (talk) 23:28, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Wow! Didn't follow it too closely, I'm surprised it was actually discovered. Science at ITN is always great, and, as Schoen says, this is likely the largest Busy Beaver number we'll be able to discover (for two-state Turing machines at least). Not only does the state space grow very fast, but these numbers are inherently uncomputable, meaning you can't just throw more computing power to find them, you need to go through mathematical proofs for each Turing machine. By the way, for anyone curious, the number is 47 176 870. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 23:46, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- A lower bound on the sixth Busy Beaver number is 10⇈15, or 1010...15 times...10. Needless to say, we don't have enough space in this universe to even write it down. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 23:49, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose primary because the target article is terribly undersourced and is the symptom of being far too technical for an encyclopedia. Besides that, I'd like to see at least either a peer-review article or a more mainstream news source covering this, because as the Quantum article points out, this is more a curiosity than a breakthrough in mathematics. --Masem (t) 02:00, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose This does not seem to be in the news. For comparison, I can easily show you more mainstream coverage of real beavers in my area of London (a project that I helped with myself). Andrew🐉(talk) 07:46, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Target article is extremely poorly sourced (indeed, the main paragraph explaining it has precisely zero sources) and is not written in anything like an accessible manner; we do not expect technical articles to be dumbed down but even the introduction to this article makes assumptions that the reader knows what a halting Turing machine, its "states", or transition tables are. It is unfortunate that a lot of computer science articles are like this. Black Kite (talk) 09:02, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle, but unfortunately the article is nearly fully unsourced, and is nowhere near being ready for the main page. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:30, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. While I'm open to posting mathematical advances, there are multiple problems with this: a) The topic is extremely esoteric and doesn't seem to have any application - the 'applications' section of the article speculates about uses in principle but indicates they are all impossible in practice. b) The fifth BB number has been known since 1990, but was only conjectured not proven [14]. While proving it now is useful, it's hardly a surprise. c) There is no formal publication of this result. The team's own website announcement [15] states "we are currently working on a human-readable paper" i.e. it hasn't been written up yet, let alone peer reviewed. A peer-reviewed publication is a requirement for posting scientific news. d) There's little to no coverage in mainstream media, I couldn't find anything beyond that Quanta article. e) The article is incomprehensible to most of our readers, who would not learn anything from clicking on that bold link. So while I commend the nomination, I don't think this is suitable for ITN. Modest Genius talk 19:17, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability. There should be more news like this in encyclopedia on the front page. BilboBeggins (talk) 19:29, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Except that it's notability is questionable as the only independent source I've seen is the linked quantum magazine article. That fails the actual "ITN" part. — Masem (t) 22:44, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per all above. Poorly-sourced article that doesn't explain why these numbers matter (certainly not to an extent remotely close to establishing main page notability), and if my bachelor's in mathematics is not nearly enough to comprehend the article, main page readers don't have a chance. -- Kicking222 (talk) 21:31, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's not hard: I'm in the middle of an infinite coin row (all heads up). I read card 1 of 5. The heads up side says "1. leave tails up" "2. look to its immediate right" "3. do card 2 to it". Card 2-Heads is the same except 3. is "do card 3". Card 3-Heads is the same except 3. is "do card 4". Card 4-Heads says "1. leave tails up" "2. immediate left" "3. card 1". Card 5-Heads says tails/right/END. 1-Tails says tails/left/3 2-Tails says tails/right/2. 3-Tails is heads/left/5. 4-Tails is tails/left/4 5-Tails is heads/left/1. They just proved that you need ≥6 cards to end @ over 4,098 tails or after step 47,176,870 and these are the best possible cards. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 05:51, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- I agree that it's pretty easy to describe how to emulate the five-state Beaver. But in order for someone to care a lot about the behavior of these "cards", we might also want to connect this to "this is one of the purest ways to model and reason about what computers do, and what computers can potentially do". And indeed "the cards can do math, potentially as well as any other system can do math". Or maybe "computer programs' behavior is complex and hard to predict, in a very fundamental mathematical sense; people have now managed to fully analyze the behavior of some small computer programs, which was extremely difficult, and there's good reason to think humanity will never make it to the next step of fully analyzing the behavior of very slightly larger computer programs". Schoen (talk) 06:12, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's not hard: I'm in the middle of an infinite coin row (all heads up). I read card 1 of 5. The heads up side says "1. leave tails up" "2. look to its immediate right" "3. do card 2 to it". Card 2-Heads is the same except 3. is "do card 3". Card 3-Heads is the same except 3. is "do card 4". Card 4-Heads says "1. leave tails up" "2. immediate left" "3. card 1". Card 5-Heads says tails/right/END. 1-Tails says tails/left/3 2-Tails says tails/right/2. 3-Tails is heads/left/5. 4-Tails is tails/left/4 5-Tails is heads/left/1. They just proved that you need ≥6 cards to end @ over 4,098 tails or after step 47,176,870 and these are the best possible cards. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 05:51, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose I apologize if my reasons are short sighted, I know next to nothing about computer science. The article is very hard to understand for the average reader, and I fail to see how this discovery is used outside of the problem itself. Also missing citations Hungry403 (talk) 03:21, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - While the Busy Beaver problem is important in computability theory, and the discovery of a new member in a short and hard-to-determine sequence is very interesting, the combination of the two does not have any wider consequences. The discovery of BB(5) doesn't actually advance computability theory at all, and the number itself has no immediate wider applications. I also think the target article lacks a clear explanation for non-specialists, and is overall not ready for the home page. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:04, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Legendary sports competitor breaks a nearly 50 year longstanding record is largely opposed as trivia, but this isn't? Absurd. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:46, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not saying that this is the way things should be, but I don't think it should be a surprise that Wikipedia is more nerd than jock. Bremps... 19:36, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) Dick Schoof (Netherlands PM)
editTemplate:ITN candidate One interesting thing about this succession is that Schoof is not part of the coalition party. Mark Rutte was PM for 13+ years, will serve as the next SG of NATO (1 October), which was just made official on 26 June. --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 19:45, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support It's interesting that he's not just not a member of the coalition parties but that he's not an elected politician. Instead, he's a civil servant and previously in charge of the security service. Deep state needs a section for the Netherlands... Andrew🐉(talk) 21:42, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support change of head of government is ITN/R This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 21:53, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support because he succeeded 13-year incumbent Mark Rutte, and this concludes government appointment from the November 2023 Dutch election. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 23:39, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- support blurb II article seems okay and new prime minister after 14 years.. Shadow4dark (talk) 03:55, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Link it to the election. Doesn't have to be bold, but it's obviously correlated. Not with rutte at nato too.49.205.145.3 (talk) 09:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support alt2 and the article seems to be of decent quality. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:34, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted ALT2. Schwede66 00:33, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) 2024 Uttar Pradesh stampede
editTemplate:ITN candidate Article will need some work before it's ready. Estreyeria (talk) 13:33, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Agree once the article is expanded. Sheila1988 (talk) 14:12, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support but wait until the event is over and all information has been reported on. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 14:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support when ready death toll is quite high but article needs a lot of expansion before it is ready to be posted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. This could have some form of widespread significance, but we don't know that right now, so we can't support based on that. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:31, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose The article needs work to be as clear as the NYT report. That says that such events are "relatively common" and so WP:NEWSEVENT applies. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:52, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Large number of causalities, and injured. A significant event, not a common occurrencee. Now reached to 121 deaths. TheHindu report. Numancia (talk) 08:59, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Significant event, with very high number of casualties. Similar to Hajj incident recently. Samuelled (talk) 14:25, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - Big news, article is decent quality Poxy4 (talk) 17:18, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Tragic accident with a high number of deaths. Article structure looks good enough. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 22:42, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- What evidence do you have that it was accidental? RS are calling it a disaster and some have been arrested already. We've got to be careful with that word. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 20:59, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose While this event has a high number of casualties, the article gives no indication of lasting significance. Gödel2200 (talk) 00:02, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 00:43, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-posting support how often do we update the death toll of disasters? The main page still says 110, while RS says it has risen to 121. Bremps... 17:13, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- ITN is still technically correct, as it says at least 110. Admins do update death tolls, but I do not expect them to keep track of daily changes. Natg 19 (talk) 17:52, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-posting support how often do we update the death toll of disasters? The main page still says 110, while RS says it has risen to 121. Bremps... 17:13, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
July 1
editTemplate:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 July 1 Template:Cob
(Closed) 2024 Seoul car crash
editTemplate:Atop Template:ITN candidate --117.53.77.84 (talk) 05:07, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Traffic accidents involving private vehicles are not the type of thing that should even be covered in WP per NEVENT, much less ITN. --Masem (t) 05:09, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Not even sure if it is notable, let alone blurbworthy. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 05:31, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose This is a case of sudden unintended acceleration. These are quite common and forensic investigation and statistics are required to establish the cause and any systematic problem. A single incident is just a WP:NEWSEVENT. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:57, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: Robert Towne
editTemplate:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 02:45, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: The more extensive the credits, the more pain in sourcing. Needs more citations all over. Just watched Chinatown too. -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 02:54, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose various unsourced statements, cn tags and largely unsourced Filmography. PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:59, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
RD: June Leaf
editTemplate:ITN candidate Staraction (talk | contribs) 13:19, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not ready entire work section have only two sources. PrinceofPunjabTALK 16:01, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Tone issues, including usage of "we". Bremps... 20:30, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) José Raúl Mulino becomes President of Panama
editTemplate:ITN candidate --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 21:36, 1 July 2024 (UTC) Updated image. --04:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
Oppose- This is just the swearing-in. The election was two months ago; we discussed it, but didn't manage to get it posted. GenevieveDEon (talk) 21:55, 1 July 2024 (UTC)- @GenevieveDEon, thats why I nominated. 2024 Panamanian general election was not posted. Doesn't this meet the WP:ITN/R qualification of: Template:Tq? Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 22:00, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- You're both right. This is just as recurrent as the election item and just as subject to not getting posted after a discussion. It all depends who discusses what and how from here out. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:06, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- @GenevieveDEon, thats why I nominated. 2024 Panamanian general election was not posted. Doesn't this meet the WP:ITN/R qualification of: Template:Tq? Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 22:00, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support given that we didn't post the election This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 04:56, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Alt2 Article is of decent quality, and we should post this as the election itself didn't get posted. I would suggest posting alt2, as the first two blurbs don't actually say how he became the president, only that he is now the president. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:20, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability. BilboBeggins (talk) 16:30, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 00:24, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Post-posting support - The arguments above are reasonable, and it's good to have a relevant political story to post. Thanks, everyone. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:06, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) Hurricane Beryl
editTemplate:ITN candidate Category 4 hurricane which is still active. Gödel2200 (talk) 21:12, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: it is now a category 5. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 17:21, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: I thought about nominating this article. One notable aspect about this hurricane is that it is the earliest
Category 4Category 5 on record in the Atlantic Ocean. If this gets posted, this information might be worth mentioning in the blurb. I have proposed an alt (which might need some tweaks). --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 21:21, 1 July 2024 (UTC) Updated alt. --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 16:53, 2 July 2024 (UTC) - Wait/Oppose. Full impacts aren't known yet, however the article body does not yet substantiate the "extensive damage" claim at the moment. The record, while interesting, is very much trivia, and a record for being category 4 is obscure. Cat 5 maybe we can talk, but not a category 4 record. DarkSide830 (talk) 21:36, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- It is a category 5. It got up to 165 mph. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 17:19, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait for the hurricane's impact to see the full extent of the damage. The hurricane is ongoing. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 21:40, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
Waituntil we know more about the human impact of the storm. It's early in the season, and both this storm and other storms may yet cause more damage. As it stands, I'd oppose, but I don't want to pre-empt things as the situation develops. GenevieveDEon (talk) 21:59, 1 July 2024 (UTC)- Wait For the most part, breaking specific intensity records don't warrant inclusion here. It might merit inclusion depending on impacts/ TornadoLGS (talk) 02:32, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
Wait: Per others. At time of writing this, further land impacts are likely to occur in the coming week per the NHC forecast and model guidance. The full extent of this storm's impact has yet to be seen.Comment: Additionally, Beryl has recently attained category 5 intensity, breaking Hurricane Emily's record for earliest cat 5 storm in basin, though it is not expected to impact any land as a cat 5 storm. Changing to Support per others; this storm's impact is clearly notable, especially for the time of year and locations impacted. ArkHyena (talk) 07:41, 2 July 2024 (UTC)- Comment: a high end category 3 would still cause severe impacts on Jamaica; to which it is headed towards them in the next day or so. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 17:22, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait for impacts to be known, and for potential subsequent landfalls. While it is true that this storm is remarkable from a meteorological perspective, ITN posts based on the real world effects a storm has on populated areas. It is still very possible it could warrant posting in the future, but not right now. Vanilla Wizard 💙 12:32, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Blurb probably needs updating as its now Cat5 (and the earliest one at that) --Masem (t) 12:35, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Masem @DarkSide830. I have updated the alt. -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 16:54, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait/Oppose A large hurricane in the middle of the ocean that isn't forecasted to make another landfall until it weakens substantially due to a significant amount of sheer in its path isn't quite notable enough for blurbing. Let's see what develops over the next few days. Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:02, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- I agree on waiting, but just want to clarify that this isn't accurate according to current forecasts. It's expected to slam into Jamaica at major hurricane intensity tomorrow. Vanilla Wizard 💙 14:18, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:Strikethrough I think once Beryl passes Jamaica, I’ll be inclined to support inclusion in the “In the News” section. But let’s wait until then. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 17:19, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Changing vote to strong support given verified impacts in Jamaica as well as the Windward Islands. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 04:05, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:Strikethrough I think once Beryl passes Jamaica, I’ll be inclined to support inclusion in the “In the News” section. But let’s wait until then. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 17:19, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- I agree on waiting, but just want to clarify that this isn't accurate according to current forecasts. It's expected to slam into Jamaica at major hurricane intensity tomorrow. Vanilla Wizard 💙 14:18, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support – I think the Windward Islands impacts and record status are already enough before it hits Jamaica; no need to wait in my mind. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 08:37, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support alt version: (There has never been an earlier Cat 4 either; perhaps the blurb should say "Category 4 or Category 5" rather than just "Category 5".) It has broken multiple records, has killed at least 16 people so far, and is bearing down on Jamaica. After that it will move on toward Mexico. We should highlight it before it's all in the past tense. — BarrelProof (talk) 18:42, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep in mind that we summarize news, even current news. We aren't hear to be a weather warning system, and may be more appropriate to figure extent of damage after more time has passed. — Masem (t) 19:14, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Wait/Support. Although the hurricane is still active and the damage it will cause later on are still unknown, the damage it caused so far might be reasonable enough for the ITN. Also, I would like to propose a new blub: "Hurricane Beryl leaves at least 16 people dead across the Windward Islands and Venezuela." 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 22:20, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support "Armageddon." Bremps... 03:53, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- "Complete devastation and destruction of agriculture. Complete and total destruction of the natural environment. There is literally no vegetation left anywhere on the island of Carriacou," says Grenada Prime Minister Dickon Mitchell. Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 03:55, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support - I have just proposed Alt2, combining Alt1 with Midori no Sora's suggestion. This is now front-page news on the BBC, with extensive destruction reported, and still going. We should also keep the blurb updated as the situation progresses. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:12, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support An unprecedented hurricane that also caused 20 deaths. 100.33.244.26 (talk) 14:31, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:@ITNA I think there is consensus enough to post, given that most of the the Wait votes come from before the hurricane had made landfall and caused extensive damage. Bremps... 17:15, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted ALT3, which I've developed from ALT2, as Jamaica (where there are two fatalities) isn't part of the Windward Islands. Schwede66 23:38, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - Just came here to say I find the current blurb very confusing. What is meant by "earliest-recorded"? e.b. (talk) 01:29, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Earliest in the Gregorian calendar (Jan 1 earliest, Dec 31 latest). It became category 5 half month before any other cat 5 in history. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:51, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- And in this scenario, "recorded" is to acknowledge that this is the earliest verified category 5 storm, acknowledging that the vast portion of hurricanes in history, obviously, were not documented. DarkSide830 (talk) 05:03, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - Given the deaths and damage in the U.S., the blurb needs an update. Jusdafax (talk) 18:18, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
[Attention needed: Blurb ready?] / (Posted as RD) RD/Blurb: Ismail Kadare
edit
Template:ITN candidate Internationally renowned Albanian novelist. gobonobo + c 09:15, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb A true literary giant with famous and influential works translated into many languages.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:20, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Blurb truly a transformative figure and one of the greatest writer of our time and thank god, it has an legacy section that helps understand his impact. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:58, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb Can’t say I’m familiar with him, but the legacy section defines his elevated significance quite well, and we did blurb Milan Kundera not that long ago. The Kip (contribs) 15:32, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Blurb on notability Murnane, Munro, McCarthy, Byatt, Oe, Auster, Amis, Kundera, Barth ... Out of all the notable literary deaths of the past two years, Kadare was one of the greatest. There's a bibliography, so you know what that means. Sincerely, Dilettante 16:51, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- So many passing recently, you’re right. I could argue (unsuccessfully of course) that all those you mentioned, except for A. S. Byatt and Martin Amis, should’ve gotten blurbs. Along with Louise Glück, who died last year and should‘ve gotten a blurb. Gerald Murnane (who you mentioned) is still alive I think, but I think he may deserve a blurb, too. I haven’t read anything by him yet. I think only Kundera got a blurb. And Paul Auster didn’t even get his RD posted, though it was ready to go on the last day of the deadline. Trauma Novitiate (talk) 04:10, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Murnane was a slip on my part. I think I meant Maryse Condé, another blurb-worthy figure IMO. There was a similar burst of deaths just under a decade ago, with Umberto Eco, Marquez, Le Guin, Toni Morrison, etc all within a few years. For my part, I'd support Amis as a prominent public intellectual if not for the fact that it would SNOW. There was a push for an Auster blurb, but it was shut down. Even I opposed that because in the US he's a fairly well-known and unique but, in Europe (especially France), he's just a particularly skilled author of Nouveau romans. His influence was low relative to his popularity.
- Murnane is IMO the second most skilled living novelist, behind Krasznahorkai,so I'd highly recommend him. Sincerely, Dilettante 15:14, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for the Maryse Condé mention. Never heard of her, but I need to check her out. I need to read Murnane, too. I’m not so sure about Paul Auster and his popularity vs. influence. When I lived in Germany, every train station had a couple paperback Auster titles available, but we’re talking 15 years ago. If you “google” Paul Auster Rockstar you’ll get a half-dozen hits from European sources (ie., https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/arts24/20240501-the-rock-star-status-of-us-writer-paul-auster-in-france). But this doesn’t necessarily contradict what you said, because admittedly this “rockstar” status is kind of a publicity stunt that applied to Auster’s status in the 80s and 90s. He’s not really read or known by Americans today. Everything I’ve read by him kind of blows me away, so I’m biased. Trauma Novitiate (talk) 11:28, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- So many passing recently, you’re right. I could argue (unsuccessfully of course) that all those you mentioned, except for A. S. Byatt and Martin Amis, should’ve gotten blurbs. Along with Louise Glück, who died last year and should‘ve gotten a blurb. Gerald Murnane (who you mentioned) is still alive I think, but I think he may deserve a blurb, too. I haven’t read anything by him yet. I think only Kundera got a blurb. And Paul Auster didn’t even get his RD posted, though it was ready to go on the last day of the deadline. Trauma Novitiate (talk) 04:10, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb after fixing quality issues this is exactly what we should expect for a blurb able RD, an extensive discussion in the article about how they are a great figure. And this is a person I have not heard of but the type of person we should be highlighting at RD. Obviously there's an orange tag and a few smaller quality problems to be fixed before posting. Masem (t) 17:26, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb Major, transformative literary figure. Khuft (talk) 19:43, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: I tried to address the outstanding CN tags in the article. Sourced or put an ISBN for the English translations, but I do not have the time to source the complete works in Albanian. -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 20:19, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Old Man Dies One sentence update about a Tirana hospital, years of ill health and reaching 88. Mundane obituary stuff. Big deal in the literary life, sure, but his death doesn't affect that in any way Template:S worth adding to his Career section. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:45, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- 'Old Man Dies' is an obnoxious response to proposed stories of this kind. You're saying more about yourself than about the news by your repeated use of it. GenevieveDEon (talk) 22:00, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Old Man Dies is simply shorthand for the repeatedly shot-down sorts of obituaries that keep popping up around here, as if they're legitimate media events. There's no state funeral, no plausible sidebar potential and generally no reason to stay posted for a week or more alongside earthquakes, sporting celebrations and scientific breakthroughs. Especially where dozens of other notable recent dead cycle along underneath in the meanwhile, for doing the exact same thing. If you want to try and psychoanalyze an author of my depths from a mere quip, "be my guest", but you're going to get a lot wrong. I suppose I should say I was wrong about an RD not affecting literary life, because several non-readers here seem to suddenly think Kadare's someone worth thinking about reading. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:22, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- How do you know whether or not someone's a non-reader? Most don't have a glaring userbox saying This user does not read books. Sincerely, Dilettante 16:28, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- I mean people who haven't read a book by Kadare. Several of us said here we hadn't even heard of him, implying what that does. I certainly didn't lump you into that crowd, given your vote. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:07, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- My bad. I misinterpreted what you meant by non-reader. Sincerely, Dilettante 20:19, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- No worries. When I read you write "Byatt", part of me thought you meant Bray Wyatt by it. That's much worse. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:35, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- My bad. I misinterpreted what you meant by non-reader. Sincerely, Dilettante 20:19, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- I mean people who haven't read a book by Kadare. Several of us said here we hadn't even heard of him, implying what that does. I certainly didn't lump you into that crowd, given your vote. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:07, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- How do you know whether or not someone's a non-reader? Most don't have a glaring userbox saying This user does not read books. Sincerely, Dilettante 16:28, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Old Man Dies is simply shorthand for the repeatedly shot-down sorts of obituaries that keep popping up around here, as if they're legitimate media events. There's no state funeral, no plausible sidebar potential and generally no reason to stay posted for a week or more alongside earthquakes, sporting celebrations and scientific breakthroughs. Especially where dozens of other notable recent dead cycle along underneath in the meanwhile, for doing the exact same thing. If you want to try and psychoanalyze an author of my depths from a mere quip, "be my guest", but you're going to get a lot wrong. I suppose I should say I was wrong about an RD not affecting literary life, because several non-readers here seem to suddenly think Kadare's someone worth thinking about reading. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:22, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- 'Old Man Dies' is an obnoxious response to proposed stories of this kind. You're saying more about yourself than about the news by your repeated use of it. GenevieveDEon (talk) 22:00, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb Influential in his field (kinda think Munro should’ve been blurbed too but oh well). Article could be updated a bit better to reflect his death / reactions. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:22, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Weak Support Blurb - I'm not an expert, but the article seems to support well, with citations, the proposition that he was a genuinely outstanding figure in the literary world. GenevieveDEon (talk) 22:00, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb Don't know about this guy (maybe I should?) but apparently he was "one of the greatest writers and intellectuals of the 20th and 21st centuries." I guess that's pretty solid. Bremps... 23:51, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb. Surprised to learn that he was the author of The Ghost Rider, which, of course was later made into a major motion picture starring Nicolas Cage. Hyperbolick (talk) 01:37, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- No, I don’t believe that’s correct. The movie is based on the comic book by that name, which was inspired by the song “Riders In The Sky (song) that Johnny Cash (and many other singers, too) made famous. You know the one: “yippee i-oh, yippee i-yay, ghost riders in the sky” — Trauma Novitiate (talk) 03:53, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb – I agree that this article is very impressive. Very well-written, inclusive, and clearly establishing that Kadare is a great story-teller deserving of his acclaim and international readership. I had not even an inkling about any of this until just now, after I read the Wikipedia article which is close to being ready to be posted as an RD. A few minor issues such as the ISBN’s that Classicwiki mentioned already. - Trauma Novitiate (talk) 03:38, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb old man dies. Manner of death not notable. Not a serving political head. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 04:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb. His article explains well why he is blurb-worthy, though I don't think the update is sufficient to post just yet. ~~ Jessintime (talk) 15:29, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb. I find it dubious that a person whom not many know is blurbed just because his peers praised him, while many people whom everyone knows, like Donald Sutherland, Christopher Plummer, Kirk Douglas and Olivia de Havilland, Cormac Maccarthy, Vangelis, to a lesser extent William Hurt, Angela Lanesbury, Harry Bellafonte.
- He hasn't even got a Nobel Prize, we didn't blurb a great many guys who had one.
- I don't think he is that transformative, I don't know his books, they weren't adapted to the screen notably.
- I also wouldn't say his influence in Europe is large. BilboBeggins (talk) 16:36, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Your list is mostly celebrities. Secretlondon (talk) 19:10, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- I would regard Vangelis as top musician, Cormac Maccarthy as accomplished writer, Donald Sutherland and Christopher Plummer as character actors, William Hurt as powerful dramatic actor. Lanesbury was first nominated for Oscar 80 years ago. Bellafonte was devoted activist. And Havilland and Douglas were just legends. Still are. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:54, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- How influential are those actors? I've never heard an actor say "I saw William Hurt in Lost in Space and it was revelatory—it completely changed the way I act." At most actors are inspired by each other; it's rare their styles shift much. On the other hand, it's common for popular authors to cause significant shifts in the literary style du jour or the themes most covered.
- With Kadare, you can also make an argument for political influence as a dissenter and activist. Sincerely, Dilettante 21:49, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- To be fair, Lost in Space isn't even in top 20 Hurt's performances.
- Let's see
- [16]
- [17]
- [18]
- I put dozens of Sutherland references last month. BilboBeggins (talk) 22:33, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Havilland literally changed studio system and the ways actors were treated [19]. BilboBeggins (talk) 22:38, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- I would regard Vangelis as top musician, Cormac Maccarthy as accomplished writer, Donald Sutherland and Christopher Plummer as character actors, William Hurt as powerful dramatic actor. Lanesbury was first nominated for Oscar 80 years ago. Bellafonte was devoted activist. And Havilland and Douglas were just legends. Still are. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:54, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- notability does not always go hand in hand with popularity. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:40, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Whether a death is still in the news by the time it's posted depends on popularity, though. That's the more important thing, blurbwise. Notability just determines whether the biography exists. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:48, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- But enduring popularity across globe is notability.
- I regard as the problem that in a competitive field top or upper tier representatives won't be considered, only top top top ones, while in a sport the best known player will be considered good enough for blurb.
- 81 wiki page for Sutherland, 30 for Willie Mays, 30 for Shane Warne, around 40 for Jim Brown at the time of death.
- This all hardly makes sense.
- I would assume blurb deaths are for cases where a person is so well known that it is news that they died, and everyone should know about it, and Wikipedia spreads this information. As in cases of Pele, Queen Elizabeth II, Sidney Poitier, Pope Benedickt XVI. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:50, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- If we're going to use "popularity across the globe" as the new criteria for death blurbs, why stop there? Let's apply popularity across the board at ITN! New PM in the Netherlands? Who cares! Taylor Swift's outfit malfunctioned during a concert in Ireland! Kim Kardashian just renovated her luxury villa! Let's please focus on the really popular news. Khuft (talk) 21:36, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- WP does not consider fame or popularity as part of notability, because that feeds into the systematic bias of English and Western topics. We are an encyclopedia, the main page meant to displace high quality encyclopedic articles, and in this case, a person that has a thoroughly established legacy and impact on literature, an ideal encyclopedic topic, even if one hasn't heard of them before. Absolutely meets what we want the main page to reflect. Masem (t) 22:55, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- More specifically, we're an English encyclopedia. Most English readers and writers exist in or know of this "Western world" of internettable common knowledge; these have always been the sort of people we work with and for. Anyway, I'm pretty sure I've reminded you of this recently and it had no effect, so I'll just suggest "globularity" for this newfangled metric (assuming Khuft isn't kidding about that topless news in Ireland). InedibleHulk (talk) 04:48, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- The key of what I'm saying is that just because the majority of readers and editors of en.wiki likely have not heard of this author because of being outside the normal English/Western sphere of influence (and I'm in that boat of having no idea who he was), should absolutely not be a valid point of opposition becasue that runs against the fact we cover all topics globally. The same argument, in reverse, came up with the Willie Mays blurb, in that he was a figure likely known to most American readers and editors but not to other parts of the world - but still demonstrated why he was a great figure in the field of baseball. Masem (t) 04:58, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Now you're getting en.wiki (the thing that covers all topics globally) mixed up with "us" (WP:ITN, a tiny speck within the whole, where Western news comes first). This is hopeless. You win! InedibleHulk (talk) 05:24, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- The key of what I'm saying is that just because the majority of readers and editors of en.wiki likely have not heard of this author because of being outside the normal English/Western sphere of influence (and I'm in that boat of having no idea who he was), should absolutely not be a valid point of opposition becasue that runs against the fact we cover all topics globally. The same argument, in reverse, came up with the Willie Mays blurb, in that he was a figure likely known to most American readers and editors but not to other parts of the world - but still demonstrated why he was a great figure in the field of baseball. Masem (t) 04:58, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- More specifically, we're an English encyclopedia. Most English readers and writers exist in or know of this "Western world" of internettable common knowledge; these have always been the sort of people we work with and for. Anyway, I'm pretty sure I've reminded you of this recently and it had no effect, so I'll just suggest "globularity" for this newfangled metric (assuming Khuft isn't kidding about that topless news in Ireland). InedibleHulk (talk) 04:48, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Your list is mostly celebrities. Secretlondon (talk) 19:10, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb. Come on, really? Blurbs are not for this kind of person, no offence to him, he led a noteworthy and accomplished life. But RD exists for us to list deaths. — Amakuru (talk) 22:41, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb. His life was significant, which is why he has an article. But what's significant about his death? Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:32, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Orange tag is now gone. Should be ready to post. gobonobo + c 00:51, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Blurb? Is he famous for dying? HiLo48 (talk) 01:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- He's much more famous than he was two days ago. Sincerely, Dilettante 01:05, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Blurb? Is he famous for dying? HiLo48 (talk) 01:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb, blurbs should be reserved for cases where the sourcing could support a stand-alone article on their death and funeral. Abductive (reasoning) 06:50, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb, support RD only This is what RD is for. While Kadare may have been somewhat transformative in a field, he wasn't transformative on a world stage like many state leaders or even top-tier sports stars. And even in literature, he doesn't reach the notability of, say, Stephen King. 1779Days (talk) 07:34, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb not only a legendary writer, but also his death and funeral are notable, given that Albania and Kosovo declared national days of mourning. 2A02:908:676:E640:1529:50D8:AC9D:7F61 (talk) 19:18, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posted as RD Stephen 23:13, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:Reply Your decision to post as RD only when there’s a strong consensus for a blurb is somewhat confusing. Furthermore, there’s an ongoing discussion on the talk page regarding the validity of the old-man-dies argument, which is prevalent among those opposing a blurb. Could you please elaborate your decision?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:02, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Posting as RD doesn't preclude further discussion on a blurb. I wasn't making that call. Stephen 00:31, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - Hey now, is there any intention to post this as a blurb? From the get-go the consensus is to post as blurb. And it’s not a weak consensus. It’s pretty substantial. So why hasn’t it been posted as a blurb? Let’s face it: RD’s seldom attain the status of an ITN posting. Once again, RD’s need their own section separate from ITN. And that’s just the bottom line. That’s why I posted this on the Talk page a few weeks ago Wikipedia talk:In the news#Should RD’s have their own section separate from the In the News section?: also scroll down to Andrew’s comment on the talk page: “Here are the top 10 reasons why this is a good idea”: Superb! Trauma Novitiate (talk) 16:05, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Template:Reply Your decision to post as RD only when there’s a strong consensus for a blurb is somewhat confusing. Furthermore, there’s an ongoing discussion on the talk page regarding the validity of the old-man-dies argument, which is prevalent among those opposing a blurb. Could you please elaborate your decision?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:02, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) New Indian Criminal Code comes into effect
editTemplate:Atop Template:ITN candidate
- Oppose I wondered what "Bharatiya Nyaya Sanhita" meant as I don't speak Hindi. The nominated article doesn't tell me so I have to go to Google Translate to find that it means "Indian Judicial Code". My impression is that this is much the same as before with the usual offences of theft, murder, etc. It's just that everything has been rewritten in Hindi rather than English, right? But this is the English language Wikipedia and so the topic is more suitable for हिन्दी विकिपीडिया. Andrew🐉(talk) 13:23, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose I am an Indian and I would say that this is not something worth mentioning in the ITN. Almost all the rules and laws are same expect for few notable exceptions. This is not something that is changing India drastically. Also, picture of the constitution has got nothing to do with it. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:36, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose The article does not make it seem like much has changed through the new code. It does have a criticism section, but the criticism about new changes the code has seems to be limited to ambiguous phrases it introduces. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:23, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per all above. Totally irrelevant for ITN. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:59, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per all above. The Kip (contribs) 15:34, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) Sam Mostyn as new Governor-General of Australia
editTemplate:Atop Template:ITN candidate Businesswoman, climate change and gender equality activist and former AFL commissioner who has a medal named after her nominated to the highest office held by an Australian. Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 02:53, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Governor-Generals are just ceremonial roles. PrinceofPunjabTALK 13:38, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
Non-oppose but I will note that we didn't post previous changes of viceroy/reine in Commonwealth realms This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 03:54, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose good faith nom. Kind of a ceremonial stand in for the head of state. The prime minister holds the power and technically King Charles III is the head of state. So I'm not seeing any real significance here. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:08, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose The governor-general is mainly a ceremonial role, as mentioned by Ad Orientem --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 04:46, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article is in great shape. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:10, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per the reasons above, mainly ceremonial and they have not been posted previously. Ornithoptera (talk) 05:54, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose as the governor-general is mostly a ceremonial role. As the lead of the article says: "In almost all instances the governor-general only exercises de jure power..." Gödel2200 (talk) 14:52, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) United States President granted criminal immunity
editTemplate:Atop Template:ITN candidate
- Oppose — This is a standard and expected ruling that has no personal significance to the country, unlike Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 14:39, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per above. Totally irrelevant for ITN. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:58, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose not suitable for the ITN and the main page. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:36, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose because it's an ongoing event as part of a larger legal process (Trump indictments) and wasn't a conviction or acquittal like the New York trial. It's not suitable for ITN. JohnAdams1800TALK 15:36, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support because of the immense significance of this decision. ITN has had an anti-US bias that prevents most posters on here from recognizing the obvious importance of extremely significant news stories for far too long, and the opposition expressed above to one of the most noteworthy Supreme Court decisions in the lifetime of anyone reading this is an exceptionally good illustration of that. IntoThinAir (talk) 16:32, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose both the topic and the blurb. The decision is more nuanced than described in the blurb. And ElijahPepe is correct that this is not a "major upset" (to use sports jargon). EvergreenFir (talk) 16:41, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose since this goes back to lower courts to rule what actions are or aren't immune now, which most pundits I've seen will still leave some of the table. If anything, the three decisions to nuke the administrative state (Jarsky, Loper Bright, and corner Post) are actually far more impactful but even then not ITN worthy material. Masem (t) 17:30, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- ^ Template:Broken ref
- ^ https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20240719-student-protesters-storm-prison-bangladesh-death-toll-tops-100-dhaka
- ^ https://variety.com/2024/politics/news/bangladesh-internet-shutdown-student-protests-deaths-1236078025/
- ^ https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/19/bangladesh-imposes-communications-blackout-as-protest-violence-continues
- ^ https://apnews.com/article/bangladesh-student-protests-violence-internet-shutdown-622c6c464c47860afee293e80550c051
- ^ https://apnews.com/article/trump-vp-vance-rubio-7c7ba6b99b5f38d2d840ed95b2fdc3e5