Talk:Hyperthymesia

Could be better written

This article could probably be much better written. Sorry for that. Feel free to edit it; i just wanted to get something down as there was nothing here on the condition. I'll try to get some journal refrences and see if the researchers who are working on this have come up with a definition that I can adapt to put up here. -- Emesis 14:39, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Emesis doesn't understand wikitype, so I helped... CheshireKatz 20:21, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

So only one case of hyperthymesia has been confirmed. How many more have been anecdotally reported? -Toptomcat 01:52, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Unforgettable

I suck at writing wiki stuff. Could someone please put in an entry for Popular Culture that the main character of the show Unforgettable has this condition? Valeriya (talk) 02:51, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

The 2009 Cortex paper?

http://www.cortexjournal.net/article/S0010-9452(09)00221-4/abstract —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.67.57 (talk) 15:32, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Flo and Kaye/Kay (?) Lyman "The Rain Man twins" obviously possible cases

Let's stop pretending this condition isn't a variant of autistic savantism or "Savant Syndrome". I watched an episode of a documentary about these female identical twins from the US who have been diagnosed as autistic savants and have been studied by Darrold Treffert who is I believe a world authority on savantism, and it was obvious that these women have a very extraordinary autobiographical memory in addition to the types of skills and abilities that are often found in autistic savants. They are calendar calculators (confirmed in the documentary) and they also have extraordianry memories for dates, and many times during the documentary people would test their savant skills by asking them about specific dates of events, and more than once the twins would give information about past dates, in addition to factual information, that was autobiographical information. One example: they remembered some date when asked about an event and they also recalled what individual family members ate at a restaurant on that date, which is an autobiographical memory. I don't see any reason why being a savant or a calendar calculator or autistic should be incompatible with having hyperthymestic syndrome. An indication of the autobiographical nature of the twins' memory is given in this reveiw of the documentary: http://demand.five.tv/Episode.aspx?episodeBaseName=C5134200001 Ample evidence is in the documentary itself. It is an episode of the "Extraordinary People" series http://demand.five.tv/Series.aspx?seriesBaseName=ExtraordinaryPeople which is broadcast on free-to-air TV in Australia as the "Amazing Medical Stories" series on the 9 network.

One thing that isn't clear from the documentary is whether the twins have the official second defining characteristic of Hyperthymestic syndrome: "spends an abnormally large amount of time thinking about his or her personal past". I would be surprised if they didn't meet this criterion.

The Lyman twins also display two characteristics that seem to be defining features of hyperthymestic syndrome; they have an obsessive interest in popular culture and they have an urge to record and/or collect mementos of their obsessive interests. Jill Price's autobiography documents her obsession with TV shows and her unusual collection of recordings of radio and TV content. I believe the two other documented cases of hyperthymestic syndrome are also collectors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.91.235 (talk) 01:15, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Brad Williams

Here is an article from the Wisconsin State Journal about a man in La Crosse with hyperthymestic syndrome. According to this article the definition here on Wikipedia is inaccurate. He apparently has no obsessions or troubles similar to "A.J." He is also apparently now the third confirmed individual in the U.S. The condition has nothing to do with being a savant either as this subject is not handicapped in any way. http://www.madison.com/wsj/mad/top/index.php?ntid=266817 HotOne121 (talk) 01:20, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Signpost reports that Mr. Williams is the brother of User:Greg Williams, the artist/writer of the WikiWorld cartoon. His rendering of this article appears to use his brother's likeness. --Dhartung | Talk 08:20, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Some more info on CNN from this guy http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/05/07/miraculous.memory/index.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.91.129.150 (talk) 23:54, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

This wikipedia article needs some editing and has at least 2 errors. 60 minutes reported brad among the initial 6 people who have this ability. 60 minutes also announced that there are 3 addition, making 9 total, people identified with this syndrome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.187.32.71 (talk) 22:26, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Neurocase

I could only read the article because my university had an electronic subscription, but I've added some supporting info from Neurocase. It's cited in harvard reference format. --Our Bold Hero 07:24, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Capabilities

I changed the first sentence slightly based on the word 'autobiographical' in the opening section AND on the comments that Mr. Baron made during his Today show interview. He was very clear in that the events need to be experienced in person; either physically or visually (eg, the weather or a published news event). The original sentence had a little flavor of clairvoyance to it IMHO. Hopefully the re-write is better. If not ... JimScott (talk) 14:39, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Etymology of Hyperthymesia

The article claims that the word hyperthymesia is derived from the Greek for extraordinary memory. I don't see any evidence for that. The most common word for memory in Greek is mnêma from which the words mnemonic and amnesia in English are derived. Thumos, from which the word appears to be derived, is a fairly common word in Greek meaning courage, spirit, anger amongst many other things. I fail to see any connection between that meaning and the significance of hyperthymesia as extraordinary memory. I am not sure who coined the term or what there intention was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Killercrossover (talk • contribs) 16:53, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Now it says derives from Ancient Greek: hyper- ("excessive") and thymesis ("remembering"). I haven't been able to find this Ancient Greek etymon "thymesis" anywhere, except as a part of words such as ὀξυθύμησις "passionateness", παρενθύμησις "disregard", προενθύμησις "previous thought", ἐνθύμησις "inward thought, reflection". There is a Modern Greek word θύμηση "memory", apparently derived from ἐνθύμησις. --31.46.249.180 (talk) 18:19, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

60 Minutes

The television show 60 Minutes on December 19, 2010 profiled the 5 individuals with hyperthymesia. It also determined that actress Marilu Henner is the 6th subject with hyperthymesia. 76.186.232.8 (talk) 01:24, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

I tried to add that with a ref but somehow messed things up. FX (talk) 06:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

• • I saw the program but do not recall where Henner was clinically verified as having this condition. Did I miss something or is she 'self-diagnosed?' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.137.9.205 (talk) 17:16, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, 60 minutes has a video essay about her and they announced she was verified and official. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.187.32.71 (talk) 22:27, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Eidetic memory

How is this different from eidetic memory? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.142.240.36 (talk) 11:57, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

They seem to remember their own lives, divided up by days, rather than volumes of information. 02:20, 17 January 2011 FX (talk)

I think this should be placed under Eidetic Memory. These people have perfect recall of everything that happens to them, exactly as what is described as photographic memory. Recommend the articles be merged — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.2.254.48 (talk) 06:29, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source for your assertion that "These people have perfect recall of everything that happens to them, exactly as what is described as photographic memory?" Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:33, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Vague and Inaccurate

(This is not meant as a criticism: much stuff that many people, including I, write begins as vague and inaccurate.) This phenomoenon is something that cries out to be investigated and described more quantitatively: How much do such people recall? For some reason both parts of this article, and much of the press reporting of these people, makes unsubstantiated assertions using absolute terms such as "remembers everything". Has anyone checked the accuracy of for example: "recall the vast majority of personal experiences and events"? And what is a "personal experience" or event? What is the granularity? (For example does glancing momentarily to the left and noticing a particular leaf on a hedge qualify? Does raising you had to scratch an itch qualify?) Until this is described a bit more accurately then assertions that those with hyperthymesia recall the "vast majority" are silly because they are meaningless. It would be better to just say they recall an unusually large number of ....

Even worse is: "Individuals with hyperthymesia can recall almost every day of their lives in near perfect detail." What on earth does that mean? --What would be "perfect detail" and are they really "near" that level?

So to sum up, I think there is much room for improvement of the accuracy and precision of statements here about who qualifies under this heading, and what is the true extent of the unusual ability.

Personally, I don't know the answers to above, so cannot contribute myself; just making a plea for someone in the know to describe what actually is the extent of this ability in practice, of the individuals mentioned. As written at present this article tells me very little with any clarity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.217.170.175 (talk) 17:33, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Steps towards some of the answers, or perhaps yet more questions, might be found in the published work of James McGaugh and colleagues, although reference to such material seems currently sadly lacking at his article. I quite agree that this article is currently full of sweeping generalisations and unquantified claims. Whether the such claims are in fact unquantifiable is, I agree, a more pertinent question. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:31, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Confusing

This article mentions a person named "Price" without ever identifying them or describing who they are until the first mention, which is as "Price", no introduction, no first name, as if we already know who they are from preceding sentences. We don't. Just search teh article for the word "Price" and you'll see that the first occurrence is as I say.69.86.65.12 (talk) 17:24, 8 October 2013 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson

A.J. = American school administrator Jill Price. Have now tried to clarify. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:23, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

1st person vs 2nd person memories

re: HK "Ninety percent of his memories are in the first person, compared with an average of 66 percent in the general population."

What does this mean? Do people really have memories of seeing themselves doing things? That's not possible. If their memories are in the 2nd person, they are confabulations or they got them from watching home movies. No one else noticed how odd this is? 68.195.91.15 (talk) 03:22, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

This is just my opinion, but a first-person memory would be remembering something you personally did or saw or heard or smelled, etc. You would be recalling it as if you were there again. A memory that is not first person would be something like remembering important dates in history, knowing that three times three is nine, knowing how to spell, knowing how to drive, etc. The difference may be subtle, but makes sense for this condition. Etamni (talk) 04:34, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Selective Memories

Do hyperthymesiacs remember specific parts of their memory of which, at the time of the memory (in reality), they hadn't payed attention to? For example, what I mean is: suppose a hyperthymesiac is in a room with multiple audible conversations going on around the room, could the person no pay attention to the conversations at the time, go back and observe the memory, and listen to specific conversations that were going on around them and hear them despite having not payed attention to them when they occured?

Psychological studies would suggest yes, this may be possible. According to some studies, people actually subconsciously remember things when they are distracted, such as tv commercials.

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Lead

"It is a disorder that makes people smarter"

How is that a disorder? 2001:AC8:29:12:0:0:0:2 (talk) 02:02, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Section on AJ appears to have unsourced direct quotes.

In the section about AJ, it seems like the sections are copy-pasted directly from the underlying source material without quotation marks. I can't access the original source to verify. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.151.151.7 (talk) 15:18, 30 October 2018‎ (UTC)

If you have no access how do you know? But there are several sources. Which section exactly has caught your attention? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:03, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Biased POV

This article is written from a heavily biased and negative pov of purely Western (namely American) psychological pov. It does not fairly consider that this may be a sign of an advanced brain development, rather than a mental illness. To be fair and meet Wiki standards, this article must be written in a balanced point of view considering the actual life experiences of the people who are mentioned in the article. Also keep in mind that defaming these people and labeling them mentally ill without actual proof is also a violation of wiki policies. This article must also consider other views from countries and religions outside of the US. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.196.137.1 (talk) 22:57, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Mental illness? Where is that mentioned? How are these people "defamed" exactly? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:59, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

OCD is considered a mental illness. When the article speaks about diagnosing them and symptoms and in any other way uses medical jargon to point to this as a mental illness then the subjects of this article are being slandered and defamed. They are people and have the right not to be diagnosed by arm chair therapists who have never met them. Whether you agree with me or not, this article violates wiki's standards for not defaming living people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.196.137.1 (talk) 23:10, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.196.137.1 (talk) 23:11, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

What has this article got to do with Obsessive–compulsive disorder? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:15, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

There are sufficient citations given in the article to support hyperthymesia as a syndrome. If there are reliable and independent sources to support it as an "advanced brain development", we can include a section about that notion. From a quick google search, I don't see any such sources. Datapass (talk) 20:27, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Abraham Lincoln as hyperthymesiac?

I came to this page looking for some information regarding an article on Lincoln I am working on and read the question concerning other possible cases of hyperthymesia. It appears there are several pertaining to Abraham Lincoln. The source is the Lincoln biography of the much maligned William H. Herndon, which has must be radically re-evaluated after the epochal publication of "Herndon's Informants". Herndon personally and through relatives was aquainted with Lincoln from his arrival in New Salem until he left for Washington in 1861. He was Lincoln's law partner for over a decade. His biography includes much material ommitted by virtually every other biographer until the publication of "Informants", the material reproduced below included.

I am not adept at writing for Wikipedia, and do not contemplate attempting to do so in this case, so I am hoping another editor will delete what is excess in the quotations, add what seems to be on point for this article (with possible cross reference to Lincoln), and post it. Ignoring spell check, I refuse to change anything in Herndon's work. I can most easily be reached at jamie@taxwerks.us for any questions. Good luck.

CHAPTER X. "Immediately following the adjournment of Congress in August, 1848, Mr. Lincoln set out for Massachusetts to take part in the presidential campaign. Being the only Whig in the delegation in Congress from Illinois, he was expected to do gallant work for his chief, General Taylor. As this chapter in his career seems to have escaped the notice of former biographers, the writers have thought best to insert here extracts from the various descriptions which they have been able to obtain of the tour and its incidents. One of the most interesting accounts is from the pen of Hon. Edward L. Pierce, of Milton, Mass., whose memory is not less tenacious than is his style happy and entertaining. He says:

"It is not known at whose instance Mr. Lincoln made his visits to Massachusetts in 1848. The Whigs of the State were hard pressed at the time by a formidable secession growing out of General Taylor's nomination, and led by Henry Wilson, Charles Francis Adams, Charles Allen, Charles Sumner, Stephen C. Phillips, John G. Palfrey, E. Rockwood Hoar, Richard H. Dana, Jr., Anson Burlingame, John A. Andrew, and other leaders who had great weight with the people and were all effective public speakers. Generally the State had had a sufficient supply of orators of its own, but in that emergency some outside aid was sought. Gen. Leslie Coombs was invited from Kentucky, and Mr. Lincoln was induced to come also, on his way home from Washington at the end of the session......

Ex-Governor Gardner, after a brief history of the Whig Convention at Worcester, Mass., contributes this pleasing reminiscence: "Gov. Levi Lincoln, the oldest living Ex-Governor of Massachusetts, resided in Worcester. He was a man of culture and wealth; lived in one of the finest houses in that town, and was a fine specimen of a gentleman of the old school.

It was his custom to give a dinner party when any distinguished assemblage took place in Worcester, and to invite its prominent participants. He invited to dine, on this occasion, a company of gentlemen, among them myself, who was a delegate from Boston. The dining-room and table arrangements were superb, the dinner exquisite, the wines abundant, rare, and of the first quality.

"I well remember the jokes between Governor Lincoln and Abraham Lincoln as to their presumed relationship. At last the latter said: 'I hope we both belong, as the Scotch say, to the same clan; but I know one thing, and that is, that we are both good Whigs.'....

"In 1861 business called me to Washington, and I paid my respects to the President at the White House. He came forward smiling and with extended hand, saying: 'You and I are no strangers; we dined together at Governor Lincoln's in 1848.' When one remembers the increased burden on the President's mind at this trying time, the anxieties of the war, the army, the currency, and the rehabilitating the civil officers of the country, it seemed astonishing to me to hear him continue: 'Sit down. Yes, I had been chosen to Congress then from the wild West, and with hayseed in my hair I went to Massachusetts, the most cultured State in the Union, to take a few lessons in deportment. That was a grand dinner—a superb dinner; by far the finest I ever saw in my life. And the great men who were there, too! Why, I can tell you just how they were arranged at table. He began at one end, and mentioned the names in order, and, I verily believe, without the omission of a single one."

The following is from Chapter XI. It relates a trip of Lincoln's a few weeks later from Springfield back to Washington to explore opportunities for office such as Commissioner of the General Land Office and Governor of Oregon.

"During this same journey occurred an incident for which Thomas H. Nelson, of Terre Haute, Indiana, who was appointed Minister to Chili by Lincoln, when he was President, is authority."

" Resuming our journey after dinner, conversation drifted into a discussion of the comet, a subject that was then agitating the scientific world, in which the stranger took the deepest interest. He made many startling suggestions and asked many questions. We amazed him with words of learned length and thundering sound. After an astounding display of wordy pyrotechnics the dazed and bewildered stranger asked: 'What is going to be the upshot of this comet business?' I replied that I was not certain, in fact I differed from most scientists and philosophers, and was inclined to the opinion that the world would follow the darned thing off! Late in the evening we reached Indianapolis, and hurried to Browning's hotel, losing sight of the stranger altogether. We retired to our room to brush and wash away the dust of the journey. In a few minutes I descended to the portico, and there descried our long, gloomy fellow-traveller in the center of an admiring group of lawyers, among whom were Judges McLean and Huntington, Edward Hannigan, Albert S. White, and Richard W. Thompson, who seemed to be amused and interested in a story he was telling. I enquired of Browning, the landlord, who he was. "Abraham Lincoln, of Illinois, a member of Congress," was the response. I was thunderstruck at the announcement. I hastened upstairs and told Hammond the startling news, and together we emerged from the hotel by a back door and went down an alley to another house, thus avoiding further contact with our now distinguished fellow-traveller. Curiously enough, years after this, Hammond had vacated the office of Governor of Indiana a few days before Lincoln arrived in Indianapolis, on his way to Washington to be inaugurated President. I had many opportunities after the stage ride to cultivate Mr. Lincoln's acquaintance, and was a zealous advocate of his nomination and election to the Presidency. Before leaving his home for Washington, Mr. Lincoln caused John P. Usher and myself to be invited to accompany him. We agreed to join him in Indianapolis. On reaching that city the Presidential party had already arrived, and upon inquiry we were informed that the President-elect was in the dining-room of the hotel, at supper. Passing through, we saw that every seat at the numerous tables was occupied, but failed to find Mr. Lincoln. As we were nearing the door to the office of the hotel, a long arm reached to my shoulder and a shrill voice exclaimed, exclaimed, 'Hello, Nelson! do you think, after all, the world is going to follow the darned thing off?' It was Mr. Lincoln."

A further chapter on Herndon speaks from his own personal experience.

"Beyond a limited acquaintance with Shakespeare, Byron, and Burns, Mr. Lincoln, comparatively speaking, had no knowledge of literature. He was familiar with the Bible, and now and then evinced a fancy for some poem or short sketch to which his attention was called by some one else, or which he happened to run across in his cursory reading of books or newspapers. He never in his life sat down and read a book through, and yet he could readily quote any number of passages from the few volumes whose pages he had hastily scanned."

Herndon, William H. Abraham Lincoln: The True Story of a Great Life Volumes 1 and 2 by William H. Herndon And Jesse W. Weik (Illustrated) . Unknown. Kindle Edition.

I find no evidence that Lincoln evidenced either eidetic memory or "photographic" memory, but the above selections seem to me to be classic examples of hyperthymesia. Jmarsh48 (talk) 00:12, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Human Cognition SP23

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 January 2023 and 15 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Smithzorah (article contribs).

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