Talk:Hyuna/Archive 1

Archive 1

A summary of my last edit

First, I removed {{Main|Wonder Girls}} and {{Main|4minute}} because there was no need for them to be there at all. The section isn't a summary of Wonder Girls or 4minute, it is talking about Hyuna while mentioning the two groups. Second, in the infobox, the birth name in the Korean alphabet is what needs to come first, because that was the name she was given when she was born. "Kim Hyun Ah" is simply the English transliteration. Third, I changed the header "Solo" to "2010–present: Solo career" because it is much more fitting and "Solo" is too generic. Fourth, I removed "===Music Video===" and merged the sections because the section under "Music Video" doesn't only talk about a music video. Please discuss changes here before making them on the article. Sorafune +1 20:13, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

{{Main|Wonder Girls}} and {{Main|4minute}} Has been there for ages. it is talking about Hyuna while mentioning the two groups. Second, in the infobox, the birth name in the Korean alphabet is what needs to come first, I never edited that. "Solo" to "2010–present: Solo career" I never made that edit and yours doesn't seem appropriate because the dates are in the paragraphy and the title should be simple, same for this Fourth, I removed "===Music Video===" and merged the sections because the section under "Music Video" doesn't only talk about a music video.. So the only thing I did was revert your changes because I didn't see how it was helpful. Izsu (talk) 20:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm talking about MY edits here. It's a description of MY edits. Now, who cares if it's been there for ages? It's called an improvement. Saying it's been there for ages is a terrible argument. The section title don't have to be simple. Just look at Ayumi Hamasaki. It's one of Wikipedia's best 1140 articles, being a Featured Article. And don't you see the headers? "Childhood and early endeavors", "2003–2006: Decline in sales", "2007–present: Market beyond Japan", et cetera. Look at the bottom of "Music Video". It talks about a single in general. I do admit that "2010-present" wasn't entirely correct; it should be "2010". Now what's your excuse of your other reverts of my edits? Like changing "2009–present" (with an en dash) to "2009-present" (with a normal dash). Sorafune +1 21:14, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Now, who cares if it's been there for ages? It's called an improvement. They are valuable links that link back to Hyuna's band so I think they are quite valuable. "2009–present" (with an en dash) to "2009-present" (with a normal dash). You can change the dash if you think it is important but a dash is a dash. The Music Video section actually talks about her MV "Change" Izsu (talk) 21:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah. There are links to the two bands in the paragraphs. That's where they can stay. And en dash is the one that's supposed to be used for dates. Yes, the "Music Video" section does talk about Change, but under that, it talks about another single in general. Can't you see that? Sorafune +1 21:28, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Okay so why don't you just section them off. I rearranged it tell me if it is better? Izsu (talk) 21:30, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Because there isn't enough information. We can't have one whole section just talking about a music video, especially when the single the music video is for is mentioned somewhere else. The controversy bit should be included after the general information about "Change". I'll make that change right now. Sorafune +1 22:30, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah okay I agree. Izsu (talk) 22:42, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Do you know hyuna love story! Kim hyuna young (talk) 10:35, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi lock

Please lock this article because there was a vid released on Jul 4, 2011 (Bubble Pop).. and i sense alot of ppl will vandalize her page... T-T — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.142.143.59 (talk) 23:22, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

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Title

Every source calls the subject something a little different, but to give a Korean family name last is most irregular. I came up with zero hits for "Hyuna Kim". Manila Bulletin gives her as "Kim Hyun-a". As far as shortening the name to "Hyuna" goes, see WP:NCP#Single_name: "don't use a first name (even if unambiguous) for an article title if the last name is known and fairly often used." So the article may be correctly titled at the subject's full name even if a majority of sources shorten it. The current format, with the family name first and a hyphen, is a standard one for Korean names: Kim Dae-jung, Hwang Woo-suk, etc. Kauffner (talk) 19:37, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

How did you even find "Kim Hyun-a" being used? I bet it was hard to find, I couldn't. She's always called Hyuna (or HyunA by Billboard: [1]). WP:NCP#Single_name says "the last name is [...] fairly often used", but it's not used "fairly often," it's used rarely, almost never. Moving the article to "Hyuna Kim" seemed like a good temporary measure to get rid of the hyphen. --Moscow Connection (talk) 20:29, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

The article reprinted by the Philippine website (which doesn't look reliable to me) is from The Korea Times. It's understandable that a Korean publication preferred to use her full name. I searched Google News, and all instances of "Kim Hyun-a" seem to come from unreliable or non-English-language sources, or most likely both. Yes, I indeed couldn't find "Hyuna Kim", but her VEVO channel can be viewed as an official source, I think. So, I admit that "Hyuna Kim" is out of the question, let's move the article to "Hyuna". --Moscow Connection (talk) 20:54, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

I see her mentioned in 20 to 25 news stories, with her name stylized in several ways. Manila Bulletin is the Philippines top news site.[2] They give her as "Kim HyunA" here. Chosun Ilbo gives her as "Hyun-a." Even if "HyunA" is more common, it does not conform to WP:CAPS. With a sparcely covered topic such as this, I don't think you talk about "always." We should default to the regular format for Korean names. Kauffner (talk) 22:09, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

This same problem exists with every Korean celebrity band member. The reason for it is the Korean media refers to these people in the format, "4minute's HyunA", "Girl's Generation Yoona", and so forth. These are their true common names, but they are hardly encyclopedic. When they are not working for the band, for example when they act in a movie or TV show, they are generally identified by full name. Kauffner (talk) 22:40, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Look at the Korean Wikipedia article. She's simply Hyuna there, no Kim. Which means that she can be identified as simply Hyuna. (Her Korean Wikipedia has a hatnote pointing to a girl from Nine Muses, that's all.) And I think the hyphen is misleading and confusing, we should get rid of it. --Moscow Connection (talk) 22:51, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to be accused of watching Kauffner's moves, but since I am among those editors keeping an eye on Kauffner's moves that would indeed be fair comment. As far as history there seem to be three different users Hinorisakamachi, Ratizi, Moscowconnection objecting to and trying to WP:BRD User Kauffner's series of 3 moves here:

• (cur | prev) 19:32, 24 October 2012‎ Kauffner (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (6,604 bytes) (0)‎ . . (Kauffner moved page Talk:Hyuna Kim to Talk:Kim Hyun-a over redirect: Per WP:BRD. No RS calls her "Hyuna Kim") (undo)
• (cur | prev) 18:53, 24 October 2012‎ Moscowconnection (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (6,604 bytes) (0)‎ . . (Moscowconnection moved page Talk:Kim Hyun-a to Talk:Hyuna Kim: A temporary decision before someone files a move request (to Hyuna). She's called HYUNA by 4MINUTE's official YT channel and Hyuna Kim by her VEVO channel) (undo)
• (cur | prev) 19:16, 14 September 2012‎ Yobot (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (6,604 bytes) (-1)‎ . . (WPBIO banner fixes + cleanup (Task: 17) using AWB (8413)) (undo)
• (cur | prev) 01:00, 14 July 2012‎ Kauffner (talk | contribs)‎ . . (6,605 bytes) (+6,577)‎ . . (Undid revision 502128632 by Ratizi (talk) No cut and paste move allowed, per WP:How_to_fix_cut-and-paste_moves)) (undo)
• (cur | prev) 20:29, 13 July 2012‎ Ratizi (talk | contribs)‎ . . (28 bytes) (-6,577)‎ . . (←Redirected page to Talk:Kim Hyuna) (undo)
• (cur | prev) 09:04, 13 January 2012‎ Kauffner (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (6,605 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Talk:Hyun-A to Talk:Kim Hyun-a over redirect: Move to full name as it is "fairly often used", per WP:NCP. Reverse recent undiscussed move) (undo)
• (cur | prev) 08:14, 13 January 2012‎ Hinorisakamachi (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (6,605 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Talk:Kim Hyun-a to Talk:Hyun-A) (undo)
• (cur | prev) 13:22, 12 December 2011‎ Kauffner (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (6,605 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Talk:Hyuna to Talk:Kim Hyun-a: Adding family name as it is, "fairly often used," per WP:NCP) (undo)

Sources seem to indicate that the article should have been left where it was created, but more importantly that a WP:RM is required here rather than edit warring. I suggest that the RM should start from default position, prior to first contested move. In which case admin assistance may be needed to restore to default before initiating RM. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:40, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Now I've looked at the article history and strongly support In ictu oculi's proposal to ask an admin to move it to Hyuna and start from there. The article was created at HyunA on January 10, 2010, moved to Hyuna the next day [3], and lived there happily until December 11, 2011, when Kauffner moved it to the current title [4]. He has been defending the title since then alone. The three reversals look like an edit war to me too. --Moscow Connection (talk) 00:58, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I see there's a fifth editor objecting to the move as well: 06:30, 16 December 2011‎ SKS2K6 (talk | contribs)‎. There is a template to restore to status quo "db-g6|rv undiscussed move", but seeing as this has been going on for 7 months now I'm not sure that the template is applicable. Of course if User Kauffner has any confidence in his case he is free to self-revert and put in a WP:RM for his preferred title. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:25, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I think the template is applicable. The move hadn't been discussed, the page was at Hyuna for 1 year and 11 months. --Moscow Connection (talk) 01:34, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I can see what happened [5]. Less then 4 full days after Kauffner moved the page, an IP wanted to move it back, but couldn't and decided to copy-paste the content, thus making it impossible for common users to move the article back over the redirect. --Moscow Connection (talk) 01:47, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I think the template is applicable also, it was applied in a similar case at Talk:Duke of Albret, but removed, then carried by RM anyway. However ideally User Kauffner should apply the template himself. If not then perhaps approach any experienced G6/RM admin to advise. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:55, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

My main point is that she is rarely, rarely, and I mean rarely mentioned by her full name in Korean news media. Even in English media, Billboard refers to her as "Hyuna" only. However, there are some editors who feel very strongly about having Korean pop star articles under full names regardless of convention, so I just gave up. I do support the article being named "Hyuna" especially since it redirects here anyway. SKS (talk) 04:24, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Here's another undiscussed move: [6]. And another: [7]. The latter article later went through a move request where Kauffner was the only person to cast a vote and wasn't moved as a result. I think both moves should be reverted. There are more. --Moscow Connection (talk) 04:29, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I was not aware of any of these moves Kim Hyun-a, Kim Tae-yeon, Kim Hyo-yeon. The only Korean singer article which has been publicly flagged before was IP-puppet attempt to hide a failed RM at Sooyoung which featured among the dozen IP-puppet assisted RMs at User:Kauffner/RM incubator. Anyway that's another long and tedious story.

Though actually Kim Hyo-yeon isn't that bad, it's only 1-move, 1-objection as far as I can see. And Kim Tae-yeon the closing admin supported undiscussed move against 2 votes to restore.

All the same it may be worth asking Kauffner if other Korean singers have been moved by G6.

Anyway, back to this article. It's pretty obvious that the move should not have been forced through 3 times. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:44, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Yoona was moved by Kauffner to Im Yoon-A: [8]. Seohyun and Sooyoung as well ([9], [10]), but they are at their old titles now. (I see you've mentioned Sooyoung already.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 05:09, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

And Gayoon from 4Minute: [11]. There are more. Girls' Generation and 4Minute are "affected". --Moscow Connection (talk) 05:17, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Your choice, put in a G6 or RM for this, or a multiple RM for them all, either way it'll evidently be supported. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:21, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I choose G6, definitely. --Moscow Connection (talk) 05:28, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Okay, well apply the template and it will be picked up by one of the dozen admins on G6 duty. Myself I've never used G6 to revert these sort of moves. Normally you have to go through the rigmarole of a RM starting from the default of the undiscussed-mover.

On the subject of G6, a brief check shows already at least one G6 has been used in this set:

• (cur | prev) 02:28, 24 December 2011‎ Kauffner (talk | contribs)‎ . . (6,598 bytes) (-17)‎ . . (adjust opening to correspond with title) (undo)
• (cur | prev) 02:22, 24 December 2011‎ Thehelpfulone (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (6,615 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Ji Hyun to Nam Ji-hyun: Move to full name as it is "fairly often used," per WP:NCP. This version of the name is from her KBS profile.) (undo)

This is one of half a dozen K-Pop bios where Hinorisakamachi (talk | contribs)‎ tried to restore undiscussed moves by WP:BRD. The problem with G6 undiscussed moves is that unless its obvious (as above) there's no trace that an admin was used. Which is one reason actually why I personally don't use G6, much as in this case it is highly justified. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:35, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Tired

This is ridiculous really, would have been nice to have had a week's peace without this User triple-moving something to force his way. Couldn't he just let one of his undiscussed moves be reverted, just once? In ictu oculi (talk) 05:40, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I was writing a reply about why I prefer to use G6 and about waiting tor Kauffner to comment. But okay, I'll just apply G6 right now and get over with it. The redirect from Gayoon didn't have history, so I've just moved it. --Moscow Connection (talk) 06:13, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

There appear to have been other moves from not-so-good titles, should I revert them too for consistency? --Moscow Connection (talk) 06:17, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I've put in DB-G6 tags for these 4: Yoona, Hyoyeon, Taeyeon, Hyuna. I've found more, but their titles were worse before Kauffner came. --Moscow Connection (talk) 06:53, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I came back to remove the DB-G6 tag from from Hyoyeon, because I recalled that it has since been through an RM: Talk:Kim Hyo-yeon#Requested move, therefore it didn't seem right. I'll file a move request for her later. --Moscow Connection (talk) 07:32, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Again

It's unbelievable: [12], [13], [14]. Kauffner removed the tags. --Moscow Connection (talk) 07:45, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

By the way, Yoona was moved [15] to Yoona as a result of this RM: Talk:Im Yoona#Move discussion in progress 2. So the article must be at Yoona and nowhere else. --Moscow Connection (talk) 07:45, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I believe we should ask at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard to enforce the RM decision about the Yoona article and also to do something about other moved articles. --Moscow Connection (talk) 08:05, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

You might try the admin who closed/moved Yoona first: I'll also add that there have been several moves of these articles so any move is not uncontroversial and needs discussing. I'm tempted to move protect the articles, but for now I'm going to leave protection off. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:41, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

It's hardly the first time User Kauffner has moved articles counter RM decisions. I think you'll need an RM to restore the others. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:16, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I posted to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Talk:Kim Hyun-a#Title. But I will inform the closing admin now. --Moscow Connection (talk) 10:05, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Conclusion

The issue is not receiving administrator attention. The admin who closed the Yoona RM, refused to enforce the decision of Wikipedia editors. To me, it means that no one cares and no one is going to help. I don't want to fight with Kauffner about this issue that he seems to feel very strongly about. It would take too much time. Basically, I think the Hyuna's case is obvious. Just look at the official site — she is called Hyuna except one single time in her profile. This is exactly what I believe this article has to do — to call her Kim Hyun-a once in the opening sentence. The article should start with "Kim Hyun-a is a", but be at Hyuna and refer to her as Hyuna.

Now, I am leaving this discussion and the topic on the Administrators' noticeboard.

P.S. Most admins come to J-pop and K-pop articles only to delete stuff that they don't like, without actually researching the subject. As a result, I believe admins unconsciously (or consciously) vandalize them, and the editors who actually know something about the subjects don't cooperate and quit. If someone doesn't care or even hates something, how can the person contribute positively to an article about it? What if I came to an article about your favorite politician or your favorite 60s band and tagged it as fancruft? I'm sure there's plenty of stuff most people don't care about and don't need in The Beatles article. This is exacly the same. -Moscow Connection (talk) 09:13, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

This is coming from somebody who didn't know whether Korean family names came first or last? Kauffner (talk) 14:18, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Blood type

Do we really need her blood type her? It's not notable. thx1138 (talk) 21:03, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

While I'd normally agree, it's a Korean celebrity... it might be. See this YouTube video describes the personalities associated with blood types. I don't know where the line between notability and cultural differences is. -- Zanimum (talk) 13:55, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

If we're going to include her blood type we need to explain why. I suspect to non-Asians this is a weird thing to include. Even if this is a cultural thing, it may not be encylopedic. I suspect without an explanation this will be removed at some point. BashBrannigan (talk) 04:17, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

I just took a look at the YouTube video referenced above and that explains it, but it's not a justification to include. It is similar to belief that horoscopes determine personality. We don't include a persons astrological sign, and based on that we shouldn't include blood type. I might wait to get more comments first, but I think it should go. BashBrannigan (talk) 04:21, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

It should go unless there is "more to it". Wikipedia is not a collection of facts. --Malerooster (talk) 04:18, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, from a western perspective this is irrelevant. So we need to either (a) remove it or (b) put the fact into a cultural context (much like we acknowledge the astrological signs of Indian celebrities due to the cultural significance). Manning (talk) 00:09, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Update - I found a discussion of the importance of a person's blood type on the official Korean Tourism site, so I've ref'd it. Manning (talk) 00:17, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Gender

if you go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcLNteez3c4 then go to c. 0:56 , and check frame-by-frame until c. 0:58 , you will come across this frame

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2011/vlcsnap2013010716h14m33.png

so... is Kim male or female? as it seems Kim has balls... Divinity76 (talk) 15:45, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately, as per WP:OR, we cannot including information that could be constituted as original research within Wikipedia. You may be able to pass this tip along to credible entertaiment journalists, who would be able to do the research, verify its accuracy, and publish the result. Then, provided the source meets Wikipedia standards, you can cite it and add the information to Miss Hyuna's page. Michaelcomella (talk) 20:37, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 26 March 2013

I'd like to request this change in order to keep the information current, since the article does not mention it at the moment as it is a recent event. Under the "Biography" section of the entry, there is the line:

She has a tattoo on her left shoulder that says, "My mother is the heart that keeps me alive."[4]

Which should be updated to reflect the recent addition:

She has a tattoo on her left shoulder that says, "My mother is the heart that keeps me alive."[4] She also has one on the inside of the top of her right arm that says, "Tempus", meaning "time" in Latin, as well as one on her lower back that says, "Fatum", meaning "fate" in Latin.

An independent source for verification and citation can be found at the following address:

Electranaut (talk) 14:40, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Not done: Source you have given is not reliable. If you can find a reliable source, then this information may be added, but it may add undue wa=eight to something non-important. Mdann52 (talk) 12:24, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

References

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 04:22, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Kim Hyun-a → Hyuna – 'Hyuna' is her stage name, and the common usage. See Ice Cream (Hyuna song), Change (Hyuna song), Hyuna discography, Category:Hyuna albums, Category:Hyuna, and Template:Hyuna. Why do you aggravate a mismatch between Kim Hyun-a and all things associated with her. Relisted. BDD (talk) 16:23, 30 April 2013 (UTC) Sawol (talk) 08:07, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

• Comment See Changmin, Yunho, Jaejoong, Yoochun, Junsu, Daesung, Daehyun, Himchan, Youngjae, Jong Up, Seungho, Taegoon, Wheesung, Juno, Hwayobi, Hyelim, Sohee, Yubin, Sooyoung, Kahi, Jung In, Hyun Young, Insooni, Hwangbo, Shindong, etc. Many entertainers has their stage names over a part of their full names. Hyuna is the same. Sawol (talk) 14:20, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I thought your argument was that "Hyuna" is "common usage." Surely people who have rarely if ever appeared in English-language RS should be given in the standard format for Korean names. Kauffner (talk) 14:15, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Survey

• Oppose. The relevant guideline is: "Don't use a first name (even if unambiguous) for an article title if the last name is known and fairly often used." (WP:NCP). We had RMs to move dozens of Korean performers to their full names on this basis a few months back. The same issue has come up repeatedly with Beyoncé Knowles. The Korean press gives celebrity singers in the format {[band]'s [performer's given name]}, i.e. "4Minute's Hyun-a". But the same celebs may be given by full name when they are acting or doing something else. The K-pop press can have their conventions, and we can have ours. Unless we call her "4Minute's Hyun-a", we are not following K-pop conventions anyway. Googling "Kim Hyun-a" 4Minute -wikipedia gives you over a million results. Her family name is not a secret. The Manila Bulletin also gives her full name. Kauffner (talk) 11:40, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Googling Hyuna 4Minute -wikipedia gives you over and over. User:Kauffner, could you compare with Madonna. Sawol (talk) 12:02, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

You can do that with anybody's name. Check out Barack Obama vs. Obama. Kauffner (talk) 12:19, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Hyuna is an entertainer. An entertainer can have his/her stage name. Why give me Obama? Sawol (talk) 12:33, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

FWIW, GTrends gives 26-2 for Hyuna over Kim Hyuna, compared to 31-0 for Madonna over Madonna Ciccone. Of course, it is RS mentions that count on Wiki. Hyuna has only a few dozen mentions in English-language RS, and they give her name in several formats. So we should default to the conventional format for Korean names, per MOS:FOREIGN. I'm not seeing "Hyuna" as a stagename. Amazon credits "Melting" to "Hyuna Kim". CD Universe does the same for "Bubble Pop" and "Change". Kauffner (talk) 13:02, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - the time gap between the first undiscussed move to Hyuna, and the first revert of that undiscussed move was 30 days. No matter how much ping-ponging of the title has gone on since by WP:BRD this article is at Hyuna now, Hyuna is the starting point.

As for the merits of the restore. [4minute "by kim hyun-a"] vs [4minute "by hyuna"] shows existance of a WP:STAGENAME, as does Amazon.com, album covers etc. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:31, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. In regards to Wikipedia:NCP#Single_name vs WP:STAGENAME I think an encyclopedia should prefer the former. There can be many subjects that share a first name over history, giving the most unambiguous title without being overly burdensome should be a goal. Why not leave it at Kim Hyuna, as the most common redirect to Hyuna can point to there. And at some point, there is another Hyuna that is more preferred or becomes popular, that can be redirect can be changed as appropriate. In specific examples like Madonna, last name is "fairly often used" would apply. Most people interested in Kpop know who Kim Hyuna refers to. I doubt most people know Madonna's last name. You have other examples that do use NCP: Kim Tae-yeon, Kim Hyo-yeon, Kwon Yuri, Im Yoona, Park Gyu-ri, Han Seung-yeon, Goo Ha-ra, Nicole Jung, Evaders99 (Evaders99) 01:08, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

But that is the opposite of what the guideline says. And we do not disambiguate against people who don't exist yet. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:18, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

That's pretty funny. Did you just read the guideline and notice this? After all, I seem to recall someone arguing the opposite on more than one occasion. Kauffner (talk) 14:15, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

WP:SNARK In ictu oculi (talk) 15:55, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

The guideline doesn't say which is used "most often" but rather that is "fairly often used" - google search of 4minute "kim hyuna" shows about 248,000 results. That, to me, meets the threshold here. It doesn't say which is used most often in marketing. Nor does it say which is used in relationship to Psy (which this article existed before Gangnam Style did). The fact that her own official profile includes her full name and all albums are credited under that name imply that this is not a pure pseudonym or penname. And this matches the guidelines used for the rest of the English Wikipedia: Elvis -> Elvis Presley, Oprah -> Oprah Winfrey, Beyonce -> Beyoncé Knowles. There is no special Kpop exception here. Evaders99 (talk) 21:36, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Evaders99, There is a special Kpop exception, it's called unneccessary hyphenation. If you hyphenate El-vis Op-rah, Beyon-ce, you will get less results. Instead of saying what we like, which means nothing, please run a Google search on the old title "Hyuna" and the (undiscussed move) "Kim Hyun-a" and please tell us what results you get. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:55, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I actually care very little whether its hyphenated or not. The use of the last name is completely within Wikipedia guidelines. As to WP:NC-KO, it would imply the hyphenation on each syllable. That seems a separate battle completely that's fought on multiple pages for Korean names. Since you're bringing this up, I would say that HyunA (capital A) is not consistent with English naming conventions, despite what Korean marketing would like. And the relevant policy would be under trademark guidelines WP:MOSTM - "Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules" Evaders99 (talk) 22:29, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

User:Evaders99, you brought the bad examples. Yoona, Taeyeon, and Hyoyeon are moved by User:Kauffner without discussion. Park Gyu-ri, Han Seung-yeon, Goo Ha-ra, and Nicole Jung with surname are the common usage. Sawol (talk) 07:14, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Hey, it's nice to know that this is all about getting back at me. Kauffner (talk) 12:19, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Kauffner, that comment falls into WP:NPA, a pattern you have repeated on RM after RM for at least a year. Other editors on en.wp are allowed to disagree with undiscussed moves, particularly ones counter to WP:COMMONNAME or which have been move-warred without being subject to personal accusations. Your personalisation of these issues has to stop. The sarcasm, unpleasantness and motive-inferring on other editors is becoming more of a problem than the undiscussed moves themselves. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:33, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

So it seems that this RM will be used as yet another forum to air your various grievances against me. You dig up stuff from years ago and forumshop it from one place after another. Do you realize that we are supposed to be discussing the title of this article? Kauffner (talk) 16:52, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Kauffner, please listen. This is not a "forum shop" this is you being asked to be WP:CIVIL to other editors here on this page. Likewise although it's been going on for a long time this is not stuff "dug up" this is now today 4 hours ago in the line above. You have to stop making personal attacks on other editors in RM discussions. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:38, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

If you don't anything to say about the merits of the proposed title, you don't have to post here. These complaints have have now gone on through dozens of RMs and taken up hundreds of kilobytes. Haven't you said whatever you have to say already? If you have a purpose beyond a desire to disrupt one forum after another, you can take it ANI. You routinely demand explanations for edits I did so long ago I don't even remember doing them. Kauffner (talk) 18:05, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Your WP:PA at Sawol above "Hey, it's nice to know that this is all about getting back at me." was 12:19, 22 April 2013 (UTC)" above, not "long ago". In ictu oculi (talk) 01:29, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Someone wrote something about me, and I responded. This is what you are complaining about? It's the way discussion works. Kauffner (talk) 03:58, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

See WP:CIVIL. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:08, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

• Support - An undiscussed and quickly contested move should be restored anyway by WP:BRD but the recent western exposure of the singer due to Gangnam Style shows the following: [Psy + "kim hyuna" 86,800] [Psy + "kim hyun-a" 612,000] [Psy + Hyuna 12,100,000]. 20x more likely to not include "Kim" than include it. That's a massive margin. And anyone searching with Kim will still find it anyway. No brainer. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:18, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I get 18 million results for Psy Hyuna, way more than your 12 million. I went through to the end, and it deghosted to 707 results. When you get enormous and implausible Web hit numbers, it's safe to assume that they mean nothing at all. Kauffner (talk) 14:15, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Exactly, any method also gets 20x more for "Hyuna" than "Kim Hyun-a". The method changes, the proportions don't. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:55, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - I would be careful of using PSY's words as reference. He has said that HyunA is the leader of 4Minute even though that is not reflective of her listed position on the 4Minute Japanese official website, which also spells out her name as "Kim Hyun-a". The Japanese website also gives everyone stage names by first name only on the Diamond album, where she goes by "Hyun A". -AngusWOOF (talk) 16:48, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
• Here is another link roundup: Her Twitter ID is "kim hyun a". Chosun Ilbo, Korea's top paper, has hundreds of articles that give her as "김현아" (Gim Hyeon-a). See "김현아" site:www.chosun.com. Here's one: "김현아 "원더걸스 탈퇴 후 우울증…38kg까지 빠져" (After Kim Hyun-a left Wonder Girls she became depressed...and her weight fell to 38kg). AllMusic gives her as "Hyuna Kim." On her "Japan Official Site" she is given as "ヒョナ(Kim Hyun-A)". The subject's BBC profile gives her "Kim Hyun-a". Kauffner (talk) 03:58, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Again, any method gets 20x more for "Hyuna" than "Kim Hyun-a". The method changes, the proportions don't. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:08, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

• Relisting comment There's been plenty of discussion, but a chance for more users to give their input could be helpful in coming to consensus. --BDD (talk) 16:23, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
• Support: Most articles of entertainers use their stage name rather than birth name. See "Eminem" vs. "Marshall Bruce Mathers III", or "50 Cent" vs. "Curtis James Jackson III". Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 07:24, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

The subject uses her full name professionally as well, so either version could be considered her stagename. "Eminem" is not part of any longer name, so that case hardly analogous. The guideline says to use the full name rather than a single name when it is "known and fairly often used". Kauffner (talk) 12:37, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support. Her full name is very rarely used. And when used, it's mostly non-English-language sources that pop up. By the way, I would prefer "HyunA" per Billboard magazine, but "Hyuna" will do. --Moscow Connection (talk) 00:13, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support. It is commonly used, as she is known in English, hardly ambiguous, and we're only here because Kauffman saw fit to move it unilaterally. -- Ohconfucius ^{ping / poke} 02:28, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
• Oh, not again. I moved this page on 12 December 2011‎. There was no English-language RS about her at that time, so of course I put the title in our standard format for Korean names. Beyonce Knowles and many similar RMs have been decided on the basis of Naming conventions (people). Despite what is stated above, when I google Kim Hyuna -wikipedia I get page after page of relevant results in English. Nine months worth of IIO's personal attacks has apparently made me so notorious that editors can openly base their !votes on resentment of me. Kauffner (talk) 11:15, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Methinks you give IIO's "personal attacks" (your words) far too much credit than deserved – your notoriety stems from your positions and your own catalogue of actions in the sphere of Wikipedia article names. -- Ohconfucius ^{ping / poke} 06:28, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Post-closure note

Be aware that Kauffner has just (practically) asked another editor to request a move back to "Kim Hyun-a". Here. :) --Moscow Connection (talk) 13:02, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I will just explain that what happened is a user named SooRah (talk | contribs) yesterday moved the page to "Kim Hyun-a" and was reverted by me. So, here comes Kauffner and graciously proposes his help in making a new move request. :) By the way, Kauffner started by saying "Please do not move the article yourself", but the advice is not needed cause a bot edited "Kim Hyun-a" yesterday and made it impossible to move this page back there. --Moscow Connection (talk) 13:17, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 27 May 2013

In the "Personal Life" section, the sentence "Hyuna revealed another tattoos one on Hyuna’s right inner arm "Tempus" which actually means ‘time’ in Latino and another tattoo "Fatum" on her abdomen which means fate.[43]" requires some grammatical corrections. It should read "Hyuna later revealed other tattoos, one on her right inner arm reading "Tempus", which means ‘time’ in Latin, and another on her abdomen which reads "Fatum", meaning 'fate'.[43]" Latinator (talk) 09:15, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

"Personal Life" section, you say? That is the "Personal Life" section. All of it. I've corrected the grammar, but I had to fight pretty hard with the part of me that wanted to just delete it as unimportant, unencyclopaedic trivia... Begoon ^talk 10:22, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 26 June 2013

Change:

In 2008, she transferred over to Cube Entertainment. joining Cube Entertainment, Hyuna joined girl group 4Minute.

to:

In 2008, she transferred over to Cube Entertainment. After joining Cube Entertainment, Hyuna joined girl group 4Minute.

restoring the word "After" lost in the previous edit.

67.137.248.201 (talk) 02:48, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Done with this edit. Begoon ^talk 03:13, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

References

Edit request on 08 March 2014

Are HyunAh's tattoos really Wikipedia-worthy?

I think it's OK. Putting a tattoo on your body is a fairly significant act and says something about the person. On that basis it is relevant. BashBrannigan (talk) 07:16, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Removed some awards

Per prior consensus, I have removed fan-run and non-notable awards (eg Soompi, etc). Shinyang-i (talk) 01:36, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Stage name hanja?

I was wondering if anyone has any idea why there are different hanja (金泫雅) listed for her stage name? I don't see a source - any Hyuna fans know of one or what's going on with that? Thanks! Shinyang-i (talk) 07:38, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

An explanation is in the "Early life and education" section. The only source is a radio show, so it can't be easily verified. --Random86 (talk) 07:53, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

I guess I should have read the article, huh. :) Thanks! Shinyang-i (talk) 08:13, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Hanja revisted

I've been thinking further about the issue of Hyuna's name in hanja. I think there is some confusion about what hanja is. It's not the person's name in Chinese. It's the person's name in Korean using Chinese-origin characters - Chinese-origin characters are actually part of the Korean language, just as they are an actual part of the Japanese language. Hanja may or may not match the name the person uses/is called in Chinese. Therefore, Hyuna's name in hanja is 金泫我, and the name by which she promotes/is called in Chinese-language countries is 金泫雅. 金泫雅 is not her name in hanja, though, and should not be included in the infobox as such. Nor should the prose say that her name was "supposed to be" something in hanja. Does that make sense? Feedback? Shinyang-i (talk) 17:41, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

@Shinyang-i: Makes sense. I've made changes to the wording and removed the Chinese name from the infobox. It could be added back using Infobox Chinese but then the Chinese name would be first so I don't think that's the best idea. Random86 (talk) 21:34, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

I removed the Taiwanese stage names from native name as she was originally marketed in Korea first. Otherwise you might as well put in all her translated variants of her name, which is silly. If you want to add it back as an alias (as with TVXQ), you can if it is notable. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 04:31, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Good job, @Random86 and AngusWOOF: - thanks. I think the information is well-represented now. I agree it doesn't need to be in with the aliases. I think it's good info to have in the article and am glad it's there. Many editors are unclear about the difference between hanja and Chinese and I think this info is helpful in that regard, not just in relation to Hyuna but to the larger concept, as well. Shinyang-i (talk) 09:18, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 4 August 2018

Page currently states:

Kim Hyun-ah... rose to fame in the late 2000s as a member of the girl group 4Minute. After leaving the ensemble shortly after their debut in 2007, she subsequently joined the girl group 4Minute in 2009.

The first instance of "4Minute" needs to be changed to "Wonder Girls," otherwise it is factually incorrect. Eadeadead (talk) 04:28, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Done Alexanderlee (talk) 07:37, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Unlock

Please unlock Hyuna's page because she's not important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.17.156.153 (talk) 13 February 2013

Former member

There is now discussion on whether or not HyunA and E'Dawn will be removed from the company, please update it as so. Coffee.io101 (talk) 08:22, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• KIMHYUNA300819.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:52, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Better free image needed

The current picture used in her infobox is from a tabloid article specifically trying to attack her for having plastic surgery done. I know Wikipedia's purpose is not to flatter people, but this isn't even a very good representation of what she normally looks like. They specifically chose a bad photo (possibly doctored, though that of course is subjective) in order to attack her.

There are so many better, freely available images already on Commons:

Are just two I found with a brief search. There are many more. I would like to build consensus on this, but if there are no objections I will likely change the picture in the near-ish future. MrAureliusR_Talk! 14:14, 28 September 2019 (UTC)