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Talk:Immaculate Heart Academy

Latest comment: 8 months ago by GuardianH in topic Unjustified mass removal of sourced content with baseless claims of COI and Promotion
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{{Suggested Edit: I am being paid to request these changes by Immaculate Heart Academy, all information was given to me by Immaculate Heart Academy and can be found on their website, ihanj.com : In the Consultative Board section please add the following: With the expansion of the board to four committees (as of 2018)—Strategic Planning, Building and Grounds/Technology, Institutional Advancement/Development, and Finance—wide-ranging advice and counsel is available to the president. Members of the 2020-21 Consultative Board are: Valerie Gradel Keenan '76, Chair; Lesley Renee Adams'84; Elizabeth Colombo '00; Cathy Corbett; John Corcoran; Dan Daniello; Michael Devaney; Denyse Coyle Galda '71; Laura Coti Garrett '75; Patrice McDonough; Patricia Molloy; John O'Neil; Kerry Finnegan Reasoner'97; Christine Marzullo Rock'90; Chris Sperber; and Richard Spohn.}}

Request edit on 12 July 2021

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Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

In the section Consultative Board, what I think should be changed are the members. The school has recently welcomed new board members so the list needs to be updated. Please add the following to the section-With the expansion of the board to four committees (as of 2018)—Strategic Planning, Building and Grounds/Technology, Institutional Advancement/Development, and Finance—wide-ranging advice and counsel is available to the president. Members of the 2020-21 Consultative Board are: Valerie Gradel Keenan '76, Chair; Lesley Renee Adams'84; Elizabeth Colombo '00; Cathy Corbett; John Corcoran; Dan Daniello; Michael Devaney; Denyse Coyle Galda '71; Laura Coti Garrett '75; Patrice McDonough; Patricia Molloy; John O'Neil; Kerry Finnegan Reasoner'97; Christine Marzullo Rock'90; Chris Sperber; and Richard Spohn. }}

All information was found on their website www.ihanj.com under consultative board members section.


  • What I think should be changed:
  • Why it should be changed:
  • References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):


Ryan at caruso (talk) 18:41, 12 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

References

  Not done: Wikipedia does not list everyone who is on the board of an organisation. Z1720 (talk) 01:10, 15 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

Addition to the Consultative Board Section on Immaculate Heart Academy

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Latest comment: 3 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion
  • Can you please add the following to the Consultative Board section: Members of the 2020-21 Consultative Board are: Valerie Gradel Keenan '76, Chair; Lesley Renee Adams'84; Elizabeth Colombo '00; Cathy Corbett; John Corcoran; Dan Daniello; Michael Devaney; Denyse Coyle Galda '71; Laura Coti Garrett '75; Patrice McDonough; Patricia Molloy; John O'Neil; Kerry Finnegan Reasoner'97; Christine Marzullo Rock'90; Chris Sperber; and Richard Spohn.
  • We care not changing only adding content per the client's request:

"Immaculate Heart Academy has hired me to update their Wikipedia article" Kalarue (talk) 16:55, 30 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

References

  Not done for now: Could you provide a source for this addition? Thanks! Ben ❯❯❯ Talk 00:52, 31 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hello - I have been attempting to make the following changes to the wiki page for Immaculate Heart: /*Consultative Board/ looking to add the following to the end of the current paragraph. "Members of the 2020-21 Consultative Board are: Valerie Gradel Keenan '76, Chair; Lesley Renee Adams'84; Elizabeth Colombo '00; Cathy Corbett; John Corcoran; Dan Daniello; Michael Devaney; Denyse Coyle Galda '71; Laura Coti Garrett '75; Patrice McDonough; Patricia Molloy; John O'Neil; Kerry Finnegan Reasoner'97; Christine Marzullo Rock'90; Chris Sperber; and Richard Spohn." /*sports/ looking to remove outdated information on programs no longer offered "SOFTBALL down to the end of that section, including the ShopRite Cup" /*Notable Alumnae/ can you please add: Lesley Renee Adams, Attorney at Law, Bergen County's first black female municipal court judge "Immaculate Heart Academy has hired me to update their Wikipedia article"Kalarue (talk) 21:00, 9 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

  • Kalarue, to start, you are violating Wikipedia policy regarding conflicts of interest and paid editing in making these edits. There are details of the consultative board included in the article, but it's not clear that the list of board members is encyclopedic. There may well be room to restructure details about athletics, but the edits that have been made largely remove massive chunks of the article. Lesley Renee Adams has a potential claim of notability, but has no Wikipedia article; notice that all of the other notables have both Wikipedia articles *AND* reliable / verifiable sources to establish their attendance at the school. All of these issues need to be addressed, but the fundamental issues of conflict and the paid editing need to be addressed. Alansohn (talk) 13:59, 12 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hello - thank you for the information. I apologize if there was a violation of policy. This is not my intent. Can you please guide me on the best practice to get relative information on the page? I also need to suggest the information change. The current principal and President are outdated. The new information is: President Mr. Jason Schlereth Principal: Miss Kerry Carroll’04Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).https://www.immaculateheartnj.com/apps/news/article/1365709Kalarue (talk) 14:31, 16 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

Unjustified mass removal of sourced content with baseless claims of COI and Promotion

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Latest comment: 8 months ago10 comments3 people in discussion

GuardianH has repeatedly (see here and elsewhere) deleted massive portions of articles with the claim that extensive portions of sourced content based on the claims that what was being removed were "minor championships, WP:COI additions, WP:PROMOTION".

It's not clear why winning a state championship at the highest level of competition would be a "minor championship". Nor is it clear why the presence of multiple championships across multiple sports justifies the deletion of the near entirety of the section. Nor is it clear why the editor in question has repeatedly failed to observe the fundamental WP:PRSERVE policy and retained content where possible or justified.

It appears that the claims of COI and Promotion have no basis in fact and were just thrown in to give the mass deletion a greater air of false credibility. Who has the conflict of interest? Who is promoting what and how is the school being promoted by including neutral factual information?

Per WP:BRD, I will revert the changes to the article for Immaculate Heart Academy. I look forward to a presentation of a case to justify the mass deletion and provide some evidence to back up the baseless and unsupported allegations that state championships are "minor" and that there is conflict of interest and promotion. I am particularly interested in hearing details of the claims of who has the conflict of interest and who is promoting anything. Alansohn (talk) 15:31, 1 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

It's just unreadable, endlessly repetetive listing of (literally) "parochial" information which could only be of interest to people with exceptional thirst for statistics. This is not what an encyclopedia does, this is trivia, perhaps relevant on some lists but not in a general article. Besides, there is virtually nothing on the page except for athletics. I want to thank @GuardianH for leaping into the fray. -- Melchior2006 (talk) 18:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

It appears that the claims of COI and Promotion have no basis in fact and were just thrown in to give the mass deletion a greater air of false credibility.

I don't know if you've taken a look at some of the previous history of this page Alansohn, but there's ample evidence of recurrent COI involvements regarding material. The athletics draws info from additions from multiple WP:SPAs (i.e., [1] [2]), and the actually explicit COI editing on the page as a whole is even more egregious:
Just the athletics section alone is so clearly a soapbox of one huge WP:LAUNDRYLIST that there is literally nothing substantive about any of the athletics teams – not a single thing but miscellaneous lists of championships. State championships are important for the school's gym teacher but not for us — for our purposes of description such info is not due for inclusion. It's pretty obvious MOS:MISCELLANY that should be removed and replaced with an actual description of any of the teams. Listing how many innumerable state championship wins for this high school lacks weight and just edges WP:PROMOTION. I wouldn't oppose getting an RfC to remove the trivia. GuardianH (talk) 23:14, 1 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Added neutrality tag to reflect this. GuardianH (talk) 23:17, 1 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
I would really welcome an RfC because Alansohn has filled innumerable New Jersey school articles with these inappropriate explosions of trivial details. They just drag the articles into irrelevance and reading them is exhausting. The heavily disproportionate accent on athletics is a problem, too. To make it worse, Alansohn is really stubborn and allows almost no improvements on the articles. We're dealing with lots of wp:ownership issues here. -- Melchior2006 (talk) 19:19, 2 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Any news on the RfC front? I keep findind NJ school article with lots of the same problems as the ones we are discussing here. -- Melchior2006 (talk) 08:09, 6 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
It's very hard to take any of this as anything more than an effort to conjure up reasons to delete content. WP:LAUNDRYLIST is an essay that has no relevance as a policy-based argument for deleting anything. MOS:MISCELLANY talks about trivia sections, and there isn't anything like that in the article. WP:DUE "requires that mainspace articles and pages fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in those sources" and it's unclear what other viewpoints are missing from the article about the school. WP:PROMOTION mentions five different categories, but no evidence has been offered that there is any specific content that would serve as "promotion" of the school, and editing is the best way to deal with that. User talk:Ryan Caruso at Caruso Digital edited six years ago, User:Immaculate Heart Academy was around eight years ago, while User:74.105.126.81 was around more than a decade ago. The most recent was User:Igwo, who had the absolute gall to add material about notable alumna Chrissy Costanza. I'm not sure what their involvement has to do with anything currently in the article. Melchior2006 has offered even more crackpot ideas about using the Wikipedia article false balance as a justification for editing articles. At least GuardianH is grasping at concepts that have some vague connection to reality, just has failed to offer any evidence to back them up. Alansohn (talk) 13:17, 6 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
The length of how long ago a COI was doesn't change the fact that it is a COI. The authored text of multiple of the single-purpose accounts still remain, which makes a COI more relevant, rather than less. You conveniently ignore the main point of MOS:MISCELLANY, which doesn't apply to just trivia — to avoid creating lists of miscellaneous information, which the section is absolutely a textbook violation of. Not to mention WP:DUE — not every single state championship (which nearly every high school has, by the way) is due for inclusion, and certainly many (if not all) of the ones listed here fail that criteria.

It's very hard to take any of this as anything more than an effort to conjure up reasons to delete content.

That's because there's material that shouldn't even be here in the first place. WP:VNOT. Sports lists shouldn't be full of minor state championships, and they should not stretch from here to infinity. This is the exact same problem at the Pingry School; there is literally nothing substantive about the team at all, just lists and lists of how many championships they've won, which should be removed and replaced with an actual description of the team. GuardianH (talk) 21:47, 6 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
GuardianH is right on, here. Let me follow up on the question of minor state championships vs. "an actual description of the team." I am wondering what such an "actual description" would look like. Are there any good examples you could point me toward? -- Melchior2006 (talk) 01:13, 7 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Melchior2006 See Amador Valley High School and Stuyvesant High School, which are both ideal. GuardianH (talk) 02:09, 7 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
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