Talk:Inklings

Something to add to Legacy section

The Inklings club is referenced in Lord of the Rings Online; the club members (with slightly changed names) can be found in The Bird and Baby Inn in the Shire. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.27.171.125 (talk) 19:41, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Saint Ignatius

I am removing the St Ignatius related entry; It appears fallacious and can't be backed up by an internet search.

How can I prove the Saint Ignatius Inklings to you? Could I take a picture of all of us posing next to a chalk board with "INKLINGS" written on it? Would that be enough or not?

It's not a question of proving that the group exists; we believe you—but wikipedia is only for encyclopedic subjects, and literary societies aren't inherently notable enough (even if they share a name with a famous one). Is there something that makes the Saint Ignatius Inklings famous? — brighterorange (talk) 20:34, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Carpenter

Carpenter's book THE INKLINGS is well worth reading on this subject, imo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.206.164.99 (talk • contribs)

Well, it sounds very interesting to me. But where can one find this book? -—Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.118.79.9 (talk • contribs)

I've added a link to the book to the article. Click the ISBN and then click 'find this book' on the book sources page. Angela

Dorothy L. Sayers

Dorothy L. Sayers was not a member of the group. Really. She knew and respected some of the members, particularly Lewis, but did not live anywhere near Oxford and did not meet with them. Dandrake 08:02, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)

Chesterton?

I've seen (ubsubstantiated) reference elsewhere to an association of the Inklings with Chesterton. Does anyone know whether this is the case, and if so, should it be included? - FZ

The Inklings were certainly Chesterton fans, but of course much younger: GKC was never a member, and in fact died shortly after the group was founded.--Solicitr (talk) 22:39, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Eagle and Child

The entry for The Eagle and the Child states that the Inklings met between 1939 and 1962, whereas this article states they met between the 30's and the 50's. Which is it? Suppafly 21:22, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The image caption says they met Thursday nights at the Eagle & Child, which conflicts with both the Eagle & Child article, which says Tuesday mornings, and the body of this article, which says Thursday nights at Magdalen College. Which is right? --Jcreed 22:37, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Inklings meetings, properly so-called, took place in CS Lewis' rooms at Magdalen on Thursday evenings during term. They began at some time in the Thirties, and came to an end in 1949.

As mentioned elsewhere, the morning pub sessions were not technically Inklings, but a regular gathering of Lewis' friends for drinks. These get-togethers lasted longer than the Inklings proper, indeed continuing for some time after Lewis' death. The 1962 date in the Eagle and Child entry merely reflects when they stopped meeting there (they moved across St Giles). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Solicitr (talk • contribs) 03:37, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Clubs named after the inklings

Clubs named after the Inklings that are not otherwise noteworthy do not belong on this page, in my opinion. I plan to delete these, but would like to solicit opinions before I do so. Brighterorange 15:59, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Rmhermen 00:07, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

As do I...unless St. Ignatius Prep is very prominent indeed (and even then, the paragraph asserts that much of the school is unaware of the club). Jwrosenzweig 04:49, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The only club you have deleted is the one at St. Ignatius Prep, wouldn't it be a wise idea to delete all three of them until they can all provide accurate citations? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.76.120.122 (talk • contribs)

I'm open to this, but I don't think the other two are "clubs." The Inklings from Aachen have published scholarly works for 23 years, which makes them minimally notable (more information on this, including a citation, would be welcome!). The Wade Center is a 41 year old international study and research center with 11,000 volumes by members of the original Inklings (and memorabilia like Tolkien's actual desk). They provide a verifiable link. My personal standards for notability are lower than average, I think, but a high school club not even known within its own walls is definitely below them. — brighterorange (talk) 04:30, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

While the anonymous editor who keeps inserting [1] the paragraph about St. Ignatius has not participated in the discussion here, you may be interested in reading or participating at User_talk:Brighterorange#inklings. As he has admitted that the information is unverifiable, that he is a former member of the group, and the paragraph itself notes that the group is not known even within the St. Ignatius community, I even more strongly recommend its removal. — brighterorange (talk) 00:39, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Christians

Which ones were not Christians? Just wondering, a citation would be helpful. (User:Jaysonwhelpley

Locations

Tiny point, and sorry if there is a stylesheet somewhere, but why is the University of Oxford 'England' whereas Wheaton College is 'Illinois'. Either make it Oxford, Oxfordshire (to match Illinois) or Wheaton, USA (to match England). Do delete this quibble if you feel that England/UK is justly equivalent to Illinois/USA! 81.154.180.147 20:54, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Christians and Anthroposophists

The statement that the Inklings were mostly Christians, though some were "Atheists and Anthroposophists", is quite misleading. Anthroposophy is not a religion or religious position, although as an attempt at scientific exploration of all human questions including spiritual ones it does explore religious questions. Barfield, who would be the leading person in question, was an anthroposophist but that certainly cannot be stated in contrast to his being a Christian. I won't go into what anthroposophical researches assert about religious questions, but it won't do to state it as it is now. --jb 00:19, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

WHO WERE INKLINGS?

In the current list Percy Bates is not an Inkling, and Roger Lancerlyn Green is an Inkling only in one sense. The list of members at the back of Humphrey Carpenter's _The Inklings_ is basic. The problem with Green is that both W. H. Lewis in his diary and Carpenter in his book apply the name "Inklings" to the evening meetings at which manuscripts were read. The Tuesday (and later Monday) meetings in a pub were not Inklings meetings in their view, just by and large the same group of friends meeting for talk and drinks. But a number of people who did not attend the evening meetings have referred to the Tuesday meetings as Inklings meetings. (The pub meetings continued long after the writers' group died.) The write-up needs to distinguish the two meanings, not necessarily say one is the only right way to use the name. Green was an Inkling in the sense that he attended a number of the Tuesday pub meetings, but not in the W. H. Lewis and Carpenter sense. Joe R. Christopher, 17 April 200770.246.102.110

Agreed- especially since Thursady evenings at Magdelen were members-and-guests-only: not a rule you could readily enforce in a pub!--Solicitr (talk) 22:41, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Bird and Baby

I call it that, and it is noted in the Wiki entry for the pub itself as a standard student nickname for it. Myopic Bookworm 15:16, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't call it that; unfortunately, you need a reference for inclusion which isn't just anecdotal and demonstrates that the nickname is notable enough to be included on a completely separate article. --163.1.165.116 16:39, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I have now reverted this yet again. I also altered the sentence which refers to the pub as "Bird and Baby" in the main text of the article, added a reference, and created a ref. list as the end of the article. I have never created a reference list before, so someone with more experience should alter and improve it. Thanks. ---Cathal 17:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

red links?

why are all the links dark red? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.68.0.94 (talk • contribs)

This has happened in the past, and to the best of my knowledge, no one has come up with a good explanation. If you are interested, you can see the discussion that took place at the Village Pump [[2]]. ---Cathal 21:27, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Pub Interior Photo

The existing caption is really rather misleading- Lewis and friends did not meet in a corner of the public bar! The area depicted was in their day a separate room, actually the publican Charlie Blagrove's private parlour, which he allowed Lewis and friends to use on Tuesday mornings. The door was kept firmly shut, and one Inkling remembers that the air became "quite blue with tobacco-smoke."

When the pub changed ownership in 1962 the partition wall was torn down; this was one of the principal reasons the Inklings moved across the street to the Lamb and Flag.Solicitr 03:29, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Do we have that mentioned in the article? that seems really notable as far as this group is concerned, do we have a WP:RS? Lets get it in there if we do!EliteArcher88 (talk) 20:41, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

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Meeting place

Two photos of the B&B pub, which was not actually an Inklings site, but no pictures of Lewis' rooms at Magdalen where the Inklings' actual meetings were held on Thursday nights? (Lewis was a B&B regular on Tuesday mornings and his friends would catch up with him there, in such numbers that Charlie Blagrove the publican would lend them his private sitting-room (at that time a separate room, with a door); while these friends certainly could include Tolkien, Warnie and other Inklings, these were never considered "meetings" and no readings took place there. The article needs a Magdalen pic, and it should appear first. Solicitr (talk) 20:41, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

I've added one, although not really the best since it's just a general shot of the building. Solicitr (talk) 20:55, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Still a great addition tho, thanks Solicitr!EliteArcher88 (talk) 20:25, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Inkling which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 13:33, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Dorothy L. Sayers and Tolkien

Just to clarify the relationship between Dorothy L. Sayers and Tolkien (or lack thereof):

While she is known to have corresponded frequently with C.S. Lewis and Charles Williams, there is no such evidence for Tolkien. The only mention of Sayers in Tolkien's published letters (Carpenter, Humphrey (1981), The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, London: George Allen & Unwin, p. 82) is in a 1944 letter to Christopher Tolkien where he states he loathes her. Lewis believed that the two had never met (Lewis, W.H. (1988), Letters of C.S. Lewis, London: Collins, p. 481), which is backed up by the 1966 letter from Tolkien to Roger Verhulst discussing a planned American edition of Essays Presented to Charles Williams (Prokhorova, Natalia (2012), The Almost Unpublished Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, retrieved 16 May 2022):

"Many different people, attracted by the central magnet of Lewis, paid occasional visits, and sometimes even read things they had written: E. R. Edison, for instance, and Roy Campbell. But that did not constitute membership. I never met Dorothy L. Sayers and do not think she can be included, although an essay of hers (as a friend of Charles Williams) was printed in the above-mentioned Essays."

The reference cited as evidence that Dorothy L. Sayers was a frequent correspondent of Lewis and Tolkien states rather that she was a correspondent of Lewis and Williams (Doughan, David (1996), "Tolkien, Sayers, Sex and Gender", Mythlore, vol. 21, pp. 356–359). Catfish Jim and the soapdish 22:48, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

It's time we put the Dorothy L. Sayers question to bed:

Dorothy Sayers was also impressed by Lewis's writings on Christianity, and she wrote to him to say so. "She was the first person of importance who ever wrote me a fan-letter," he recalled, and he added, "I liked her, originally, because she liked me; later, for the extraordinary zest and edge of her conversation - as I like a high wind." She did not, however, come to any meetings of the Inklings. No woman ever did. "She never met our own club," Lewis said, "and probably never knew of its existence." Carpenter, Humphrey (1978), The Inklings: C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkien, Charles Williams, and their friends, London: George Allen and Unwin Catfish Jim and the soapdish 13:18, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

E.R. Eddison and his wife Molly Eddison

The above quote from Carpenter's book (The Inklings) raised a question about this entry. Carpenter talks in detail of Eddison's visit but unsurprisingly does not mention the presence of his wife. Eddison's article mentions that his wife's name was Winifred... It looks like this was a result of a drive by prank by an IP editor in February 2019 [3]. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 13:41, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Camille Smith and J.H. Grant III

Neither appear in Carpenter's book about the Inklings. I can find no reference to Camille Smith being a cousin of Lewis (perhaps I haven't looked hard enough) outside of pieces that are clearly based on this WP article. Another drive-by prank, possibly, added by IP editor in September 2019 [4]. It had previously been added (and correctly reverted) in a clear act of vandalism in February 2019 [5]. J.H. Grant III seems to have been added in similar circumstances [6]. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 14:41, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

I've temporarily protected this page due to persistent vandalism, with the repeated re-addition of JH Grant III, whoever that is. He is not mentioned in any books about the Inklings and online references are all traceable to earlier versions of this article. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 17:44, 1 July 2022 (UTC)