Talk:Invasion of Yugoslavia order of battle: Axis

Yugoslav order of battle for the invasion of Yugoslavia

The above list was classed as a Milhist A-class list, but needed a lot of work at WP:FLC. Should anyone wish to take this list further, e.g. to featured candidacy, I suggest they look at the comments raised at the other candidacy. Just a thought. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:17, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Will do! Peacemaker67 (send... over) 03:39, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Just a thought

Shouldn't there be a brief background section to explain why the Axis wished to invaded Yugoslavia in the first place? 23 editor (talk) 15:21, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

G'day 23, I believe there should be a brief explanation of the invasion plan, but an explanation of the reasons for the invasion (if that can be done briefly) isn't really necessary here IMO (and certainly doesn't seem to the be the practice in other FA ORBAT articles (not that there are a lot of them). The Yugoslav one got to FL without it. This is a list that pulls details out of an article Invasion of Yugoslavia, IMO the explanation belongs in the parent article. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 05:28, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

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Command structure

So in order to avoid edit wars in the page. I will clarify it then, Cavallero as Chief of General Staff was to oversaw Italian operations on every front, Vittorio Ambrosio was to lead the Italian invasion of Yugoslavia along with Biroli's 9th Army in Albania . This operation was oversaw by Cavallero since he was Chief of General Staff. This also apply to German command in Yugoslavia. Brauchitsch was to oversaw the invasion of Yugoslavia since he was C-in-C of the Wehrmacht. While Weich's German 2nd Army would lead the invasion. Ciao!! Jheeeeeeteegh (talk) 05:00, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

What is the source for Cavallero being in overall command of this operation? Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:07, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

The Stato Maggiore Generale (Supreme General Staff), despite its exalted name, had only seven employees and was a purely advisory body to Mussolini. It did not have direct communication with the ministries and no authority over the staffs of the army, navy and air force. It was led by the Capo di Stato Maggiore Generale (Chief of the Supreme General Staff), whose deputy chief was in practice often consulted instead..

It means that Italy's military at that time has no unified structural High Command yet. The Supreme General Staff was the only command that exercise control . Although it did not control over the staffs of the army,air force, and navy. It's main functions were only advisory, consultation and overseeing . Ciao!! Jheeeeeeteegh (talk) 08:01, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

That still isn’t a source for Cavallero being in command of this operation. We know von Brauchitsch was in charge of the Germans because there is a reliable source that says so and it is cited in the list. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:21, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Alright I will clear it. Its actually Vittorio Ambrosio who led the Italian invasion of Yugoslavia. But Biroli's 9th Army was in Albania which it is subordinated to Cavallero's High Command in Albania. Sorry but the Italian chain of command from 1940-1941 before the creation of the Comando Supremo (unified Italian High Command) in June 1941 is just confusing, Ciao!! Jheeeeeeteegh (talk) 09:24, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Hey.You've been offline at least 17 hours for now. If you don't replied back I will continue the edit where Ambrosio would lead the invasion while Biroli's 9th Army would be subordinate to Cavallero's command in Albania.Ciao!! Jheeeeeeteegh (talk) 03:08, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

G'day, there is no deadline. You haven't produced a reliable source for any of the Italian command arrangements for the invasion that you have claimed were in place. My understanding is that Cavallero was the commander of the Comando Superiore Forze Armata Albania at the time of the invasion (as you say), but that Biroli was commander 9th Army (the principal formation of the command), only some of which actually invaded Yugoslavia from Albania (ie the Settore Librazhd and 14th and 17th Corps). Other elements of the 9th Army did not attack Yugoslavia (3rd and 26th Corps), so the senior commander responsible for troops who actually attacked Yugoslavia from Albania was Biroli, not Cavallero, who was responsible for the whole command, but did not directly command any of the Italian forces that attacked Yugoslavia. Ambrosio was the commander of the 2nd Army attacking in the west, and had no command responsibility for the 9th Army at all. On top of that, the Zara Corps was a separate command. All this is in the Niehorster orbat reference already used in the article. Any edits you do will need to be referenced to a reliable source for which you will need to add a footnote, otherwise I will delete them. This is Featured List and the referencing needs to be of high quality. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:25, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

I recently saw the Niehoster orbit reference for the Italian forces. Your right. But according in that order of battle, Cavallero was the supreme command of the Italian forces in Albania with Biroli's 9th Army which is also stationed in Albania as (it is obvious) and was subordinated to Cavallero's command. Biroli's 9th Army may led the way for Italian forces in Albania invading Yugoslavia. But he is still subordinated to Cavallero's command in Albania. Jheeeeeeteegh (talk) 11:50, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

I fail to see why we would include Cavallero given not even all of Biroli's army actually invaded Yugoslavia, unless you have a source that said that Cavallero was in overall command of the the Italian Army operations against Yugoslavia. I haven't seen that anywhere though, so I do not consider he should be included unless a reliable source for his overall command of the operation can be located. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:02, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

As I said. I am depending on the Niehoster source you gave. Due to the confusing Italian chain of command. Cavallero was not the overall commander of the Italian invasion of Yugoslavia. But Cavallero was the supreme command of Italian forces invading from Albania with Biroli's 9th Army subordinate to it. Vittorio Ambrosio was the overall commander of the Italian invasion of Yugoslavia attacking from Northeastern Italy. Jheeeeeeteegh (talk) 23:40, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

This issue is being discussed on the talk page of the Invasion of Yugoslavia article. Let’s keep it in one place, thanks. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:35, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

References