Talk:Isaac C. Parker

What this article shouldn't be:

Isaac Parker (1838-1896 was an important figure of the American frontier in the post Civil War period. As a judge he presided over the Western District of Arkansas where he earned the sobrioquet, the 'Hanging Judge.'

Parker was born in a log cabin in rural Ohio on October 15, 1838. He passed the bar in 1859 and moved to St. Joseph, Missouri where he gained a reputation as an honest lawyer and a leader in local politics. In 1868 he was elected a judge of the twelfth Missouri circut. He resigned his judgeship in 1870 to run for the U.S. Senate on the Republican ticket. He was electec and held this position until 1874 when the politics of Missouri shifted away from the republicans.

Parker sought and received the judgeship of the Western District of Arkansas which also gave him jurisdiction over the vast and lawless Indian Territory (modern Oklahoma). The territory was a notorious haven for bandits and other outlaws, and the district had been marred by corruption. From his seat in Fort Smith, Arkansas Parker had the daunting job of supervising the policing of the area.

Parker's term as judge was marked by a reputation for incorruptability and by a strict, even harsh, zeal for law enforcement. In his term he sentenced 75 men and 4 women to execution by hanging. This made him a controversial figure, especially when he had a special gallows built that could hang six people at once. The gallows was first used on September 3, 1875, earning Parker his nickname. George Maledon, the hangman during Parker's long tenure, became known as the "Prince of Hangmen."

Judge Parker continued on as judge over the territory until his death on 1896. He is a powerful symbol of the imposition of law on the "Wild West." He has been portrayed in fiction several times, notably in the film True Grit {1969}with James Westerfield playing Parker. The character played by Pat Hingle in Hang 'em High has a different name, but is clearly meant to be Parker.

Sources: http://www.legendsofamerica.com/AR-IsaacParker.html

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Above text does not add anything significant to biography, is not bias free, and contains many errors. The wiki article itself is currently far better in content and substance.E leonard 02:31, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Merge from Issac Parker

There was a separate article on this same judge at Issac Parker. I have merged content from that article into this one, and converted that one to a redirect to this article. I merged only content that seemed to me to possibly add soemthing to the current article, but it may need further editing. The history of the article I merged from can be found here. DES ^(talk) 17:38, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the Three Guardsmen

Of the vaunted "Three Guardsmen" of Oklahoma:Chris Madsen, Bill Tilghman and Heck Thomas, only Heck Thomas actually worked for the Fort Smith court during the Parker era. A little light reading proves this conclusively; don't trust the excellent fiction of Elmer Kelton and others as fact. Adding Tilghman and Madsen's names to this page is incorrect. E leonard 22:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Bot-created subpage

A temporary subpage at User:Polbot/fjc/Isaac Charles Parker was automatically created by a perl script, based on this article at the Biographical Directory of Federal Judges. The subpage should either be merged into this article, or moved and disambiguated. Polbot (talk) 18:02, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Added link to the Federal Judicial Center biography and will redirect the bot page to this wiki entry. E leonard (talk) 18:27, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Parker and the Supreme Court (Justice Harlan)

There's a decent article by Professor Kopel discussing Parker's cases, their regular appeal, and changes in the law of self-defense towards the end of the 19th century: https://davekopel.org/2A/LawRev/Self-Defense-Cases.htm . It's probably worth referencing in this article, especially in regards to Judge Parker's reversal rate.98.206.218.218 (talk) 23:15, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Dates of service & successor

I corrected Judge Parker's dates of service in the infobox to be consistent with his FJC bio -- begin March 19, 1875 (confirmed and received commission), end November 17, 1896 (his death); I also added his successor per the United States District Court for the Western District of Arkansas article. Whoever previously dated the article, and noted no successor, apparently confused his seat as judge with the Western District's jurisdiction. Judge Parker's judicial seat was never specifically over Indian Territory; he was the sole district judge for the Western District, whose jurisdiction included all or part of Indian Territory until September 1, 1896. Congress terminated the Western District's jurisdiction over Indian Territory on that date; but as Federal judges are lifetime appointees, Judge Parker continued as Western District judge until his death, and was succeeded in that seat by John Henry Rogers. (The seat continues in the Western District to this day, and is presently held by Paul K. Holmes III.) --RBBrittain (talk) 07:14, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

I should add that Judge Parker probably did not conduct court in the final months of his life; numerous historical sources confirm he was too ill to attend court when his Indian Territory jurisdiction ended. Nonetheless, since he was appointed as district judge for the Western District (not Indian Territory specifically) and did not resign (senior status was not available then), he remained a judge until his death. --RBBrittain (talk) 07:23, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Date when Parker left his office of the Presiding Judge in the Western Arkansas District

The infobox claims that he left his office of the Presiding Judge on November 25, 1896. However, Parker died on November 17, 1896, due to complications related to Bright's disease/nephritis. Parker was succeeded by John Henry Rogers, who received the recess appointment from President Grover Cleveland on November 27. But Parker probably left his office upon the announcement of his death, not 8 days thereafter.--89.173.227.64 (talk) 06:03, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Fixed, thank you! Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 12:22, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Planning to make change soon

Hello fellow Wikipedians, While doing some research at work (I am curator for the United States Marshals Museum, opening September 24, 2019, in Fort Smith, Arkansas), I noticed an incorrect claim on the page that is derived from Parker folklore. He was not the youngest judge in the West. His two predecessors in this seat were younger than him at the time they were each appointed. Their ages are shown on their wiki pages (with appropriate sourcing). I removed this claim accordingly.

Separately, re: the Three Guardsmen comment above - All three worked in the Western District of Arkansas at one point as shown by their Oaths of Office held in our collection.

Thanks! Montanakennedy (talk) 22:30, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

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Cherokee bills hanging

it was told too me as a child, that Bill was sentenced to be hanged twice, one for the by stander killed in the general store robbery, and once fore killing a Guard while trying too excape. Up holding with the law, judge parker ordered him hung twice,by commuting the word in the first case, to be hung,( cut out the words (until dead). So the day of the hanging bill was placed on a three legged milking stool, and it was pulled out from under from him he was allowed too dangle and be hung for about 2 mins.he was then replaced back on the stool, given a min too get a few breaths, and hung again until dead. Satisfying both family's seeking justice..and Satisfying the letter of the law. 107.147.163.153 (talk) 03:35, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

That paragraph is badly written and likely not true; there is no citation, and a quick search reflects that it doesn't appear to be anywhere else. It should be modified, if not removed altogether. 72.193.85.115 (talk) 22:28, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 1 June 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus to use middle initials. Favonian (talk) 16:57, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

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• Isaac Charles Parker → Isaac C. Parker
• Isaac Thomas Parker → Isaac T. Parker

– These articles were both moved to their current location back in August 2020, from "Isaac Parker" (which has since become a dab page) and "Isaac T. Parker" respectively (the latter move probably for consistency), by the same user (Hhfjbaker, hereby notified).

In many of the articles linking to these two Isaac Parkers, the links are piped like [[Isaac Charles Parker|Isaac Parker]] and [[Isaac Thomas Parker|Isaac Parker]] respectively, which leads me to believe that both men went by just "Isaac Parker".

Now, per WP:MIDDLENAME ("Adding given names, or their abbreviations, merely for disambiguation purposes (if that format of the name is not commonly used to refer to the person) is not advised."), we're not supposed to use middle names/initials to disambiguate unless the middle name(s)/initial(s) is part of the WP:COMMONNAME.

So, what is their WP:COMMONNAME? Given the piping pattern above, I'm inclined to believe that it's "Isaac Parker" for both men. I'm open to the idea that former (the "Hanging Judge") is the WP:PRIMARY, but I'll go for disambiguators for both articles for now.

Note: Older sources often refer to people using their full name, but that was their way of disambiguating people. Should we follow that, or should we treat each on a case-by-case basis? HandsomeFella (talk) 23:08, 1 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 16:09, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Update: the proposed move targets of these articles are now changed according to Curbon7's research. HandsomeFella (talk) 08:49, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

• The "Hanging Judge" is overwhelmingly the primary topic by both pageviews and long-term significance, so at a minimum Isaac Parker needs to redirect here. A quick search suggests that Isaac C. Parker is actually quite a bit more common in sources than the shorter version, so I'd probably support that as a first choice, but I wouldn't be bothered by the WP:CONCISE Isaac Parker. I oppose using Charles (which is very uncommon) or parenthetical disambiguation (per WP:NATURAL). No opinion on the Delaware politician at this point. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 07:29, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

If the consensus is to use middle initial instead of middle name, I do not think it is fine. Boo Boo (talk) 12:42, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Gack!!!! I meant I do think it is fine. Sorry. Boo Boo (talk) 19:37, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:11, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Arkansas, WikiProject Biography, WikiProject American Old West, WikiProject Ohio, WikiProject U.S. Congress, WikiProject United States courts and judges, WikiProject Biography/Politics and government, WikiProject United States, and WikiProject Missouri have been notified of this discussion. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 16:10, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

• Isaac C. Parker seems to be used frequently in many books ([1][2]), journal articles ([3][4]), and by government institutions ([5][6]) so I would support a move to that name. I have not looked into the Delaware politician, so have no opinion with that one. Curbon7 (talk) 21:23, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

  Per his newspaper obituary ([7]) and contemporary legislative records ([8] pages 8, 16, and 22), the Delaware politician also seems to be commonly known with his middle initial as Isaac T. Parker. So for both cases, I think they should be moved to their initialized middle names. Curbon7 (talk) 21:28, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

  Great research. Thanks. HandsomeFella (talk) 08:43, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

• Support moving to the middle initial, as well. I think the editor above me makes a good point. King keudo (talk) 23:49, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 13:40, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Hiring" of James Fagan

Removed reference to the hiring of U.S. Marshal James Fagan by Isaac Parker (and ensuing hiring of 200 deputies).

United States Marshals are appointed by the President and are confirmed by the U.S. Senate (in the same manner as federal court judges). Additionally, Fagan was appointed on February 10, 1875, a full month before the nomination of Parker as judge. (US Marshals Service listing of Marshals for Arkansas)

The '200 deputies' story is fiction. It first showed up in the 1930s in newspapers and is not supported by any records of the court. There were occasions in the 1870s-1900s of districts hiring "200 deputies" to serve for several days during national elections, labor disputes, etc. but few long term matters required it. The district court for the Territory of Oklahoma (located in Guthrie) may have hired as many as 200 deputies and posse while chasing down the Doolins, Daltons, and others in the mid-1890s but that lasted only a couple of years and was not related to actions taken by Parker. Montanakennedy (talk) 20:26, 6 October 2024 (UTC)