Talk:Isaac L. Rice Mansion

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton talk 20:23, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

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The Isaac L. Rice Mansion

• ... that the Isaac L. Rice Mansion was occupied by the Rices for less than a decade? Source: Gray, Christopher (August 24, 1997). "A Fading Reminder of Turn-of-the-Century Elegance".
  • ALT1: ... that the Isaac L. Rice Mansion was occupied by the Rices for four years? Source: Gray, Christopher (August 24, 1997). "A Fading Reminder of Turn-of-the-Century Elegance".
  • ALT2: ... that an attempt to protect the Isaac L. Rice Mansion was marked by "suggestions of antisemitism"? Source: Haberman, Clyde (May 30, 1980). "Yeshiva Tries to Void Status as Landmark; Landmark Designation Pits Yeshiva Against Neighbors Mansion Built in 1901 Statements Labeled as Unfair Viewed as Test of Law". The New York Times
  • ALT3: ... that the New York City government sought to demolish a wall around the Isaac L. Rice Mansion for five years? Source: "Encroach on Sidewalks: City Authorities to Press Cases of Unlawful Construction". New-York Tribune. May 27, 1906. p. A3; "To Clear Greeley Square: Court Orders Park Commissioner to Remove Show Cases". New-York Tribune. June 17, 1911. p. 7.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/WEDU
  • Comment: More hooks later

Created by Epicgenius (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 651 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

Epicgenius (talk) 16:15, 22 April 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: ALT2 is not really suitable in this form, since it's not clear who it's accusing of antisemitism, but any other hook would be fine. Smurrayinchester 11:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. For what it's worth, I initially didn't really think the tugboat thing was that interesting (it has to do more with people protesting Julia Rice, who just so happened to live in the house). I might consider a hook about it later, though. Epicgenius (talk) 12:46, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Actually what about this?

• ALT4: ... that tugboat operators protested outside the Isaac L. Rice Mansion after Julia Barnett Rice formed a committee to protest unnecessary noise? Epicgenius (talk) 12:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

I'll mark this as ready, and let the admin decide which hook to use. Thanks for the quick reply! Smurrayinchester 14:46, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Isaac L. Rice Mansion/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Epicgenius (talk · contribs) 14:51, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 07:03, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Will pick up this review in due time.--ZKang123 (talk) 07:03, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Sourcing and spot checks

• Earwig highlights some phrases which are place names and so on. Though there's one of main concern:
  • Source says: "the house was completed in 1903. Isaac Rice called it Villa Julia, after his wife." which is too similar to: "When the house was completed in 1903, Rice called it "Villa Julia" after his wife."

Spot checks were done during the copyedits.--ZKang123 (talk) 07:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Images

All photos are under CC-BY or BY-SA licensed, some of which are taken by the nominator.

Copy changes

Lead

• is a mansion at 346 West 89th Street and Riverside Drive on the Upper West Side of Manhattan in New York City. – This part is a bit wordy. I suggest is a mansion on the Upper West Side of Manhattan in New York City. then move the part about its exact location somewhere else, like in another sentence.
• yeshiva, or Jewish school, – I think it's not needed to explain what a yeshiva is here given you wikilinked it
• The facade is made of brick and marble and is four stories high, with an attic and basement – The brick and marble facade is four stories high with an attic and basement.
• was intentionally designed – remove "intentionally"
• Although various subsequent tenants – remove "various"
• hired Herts and Tallant to design a house there – hired Herts and Tallant as the house's architects
• The Rice family decided to move to the Ansonia Hotel in 1907 and sold it to the tobacconist Solomon Schinasi, whose family modified the house in 1908, 1912, and 1927. – When the Rice family moved to the Ansonia Hotel in 1907, they sold it to the tobacconist Solomon Schinasi...
• There has been architectural commentary of the house over the years. – positive or negative?

More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 04:48, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for taking up the review. I've addressed all of the above so far. – Epicgenius (talk) 22:59, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Site

• The Isaac L. Rice Mansion is at 346 West 89th Street, at the southeast corner with Riverside Drive, on the Upper West Side of Manhattan in New York City. – ...at the southeast corner of Riverside Driver
  • I also note Ref 4 supports on the address, but not exactly on the general location in NYC. I guess Ref 3 mentions the general location?
    • Ref 3 does mention that it's on the Upper West Side, and many other sources refer to the building's neighborhood, but only in passing. I've changed it to "the southeast corner of Riverside Drive and 89th Street". Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• the rest of the grounds were originally composed of terraced gardens. – something about this clause is a bit odd. I understand the terraced gardens used to surround the mansion?
  • Yes, that is correct. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• designed by Herts & Tallant, who had also designed the rest of the mansion. – designed by Herts & Tallant, who was the overall architect of the mansion.
  • Done, with slightly different wording. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• The wall was described as a solid masonry structure – Remove "described as". I don't think this is really controversial information unless it has been contradicted by other sources.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• is designed in a similar style to the monument's balustrades. – is designed similarly...
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• For ref 10, the LPC 1980 report supports the statement of the style of the parameter wall, but not the other source exactly.
  • I have changed it so this sentence only references the LPC report. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• Optional: For refs 6, 9, 11, 41 they link to newspapers.com. Might add the via parameter and check for other similar instances, but this is an issue more at FAC stage than here.
• The Rice Mansion is also near the Normandy apartment building, which is two blocks to the south. – I'm unsure of the relevance of this sentence unless the other apartment is another prominent landmark.
  • The Normandy is indeed a landmark (both in a literal sense, as it was also designated by the LPC, and in a figurative sense, as it's 20 stories high). Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• Ref 2 supports on freestanding.
• could not be more than four stories high. – could not be taller than four stories.
  • Also ref 7 states "not less than four stories". I wonder if it's a slip of a tongue mistake on the source.
    • Oops, I misread the source. I've fixed this. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Architecture

• Swap [18][3]
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• designed in a mixture of the – designed in a mix of...
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• described the house as being patterned... – I might just say the house has been compared (by local news sources of the early-20th-century) to an Italian villa or Swiss chalet.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• All of these additions were designed in a similar style to Herts & Tallant's original mansion. – Might say All of these additions were designed to match the original architectural style of the mansion.
  • I suppose The aesthetic and structural/integrity of the original exterior is not affected by these later additions of 1927. supports the above statement.
• The facade is made of brick and marble and is four stories high, with an attic and basement. – The brick and marble facade is four stories tall. Also I'm not sure of adding about the attic and basement because does the facade cover underground?
  • I've moved that bit to the paragraph above. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• The use of brick in the facade is common... of the time – was common
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• A source from the house's construction described the stairway as measuring 40 feet (12 m) wide. – Would just merge with the previous statement , measuring 40 feet (12 m) wide.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• The original plans called for twenty granite steps, with a stone balustrade and electric lamps on either side,[27] but the staircase as built has ten steps. – While the original plans called for twenty granite steps, the present staircase only has ten steps. Also does the stone balustrade and lamps still exist
  • The balustrade and lamps do not exist. (There is a metal railing, but this isn't in the source). Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• depicting six children, who might represent the Rices' sons and daughters. – I note ref 24 is also a bit uncertain about what they exactly depict.
  • Yep. That uncertainty is why the article says that the children might represent the Rices' sons and daughters. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• with Spanish tile – with Spanish tiles
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• The southern arch is topped by a keystone, and there are three windows above the arch. – ...topped by a keystone, with three windows above the arch
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• Isaac Rice and his wife Julia Barnett Rice had wanted the house to be soundproof because their six children (Muriel, Dorothy, Isaac Leopold Jr., Marion, Marjorie, and Julian) made much noise. – This sentence here is rather chunky. Especially "made much noise" don't seem rather encyclopedic here.
  • I changed that last bit to "were loud". Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• also remain in place – remove "in place"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• and a second elevator – second mention of "elevator" isn't necessary
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• The main hall measures 35 by 35 feet (11 by 11 m). – So basically a square with length of 35 ft?
  • Ues. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• In the basement, there was a chess room where Isaac Rice often arranged matches with overseas competitors. – In the basement was a chess room where Issac Rice played with overseas competitors. Or reworded something similar.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• decorated their respective room with machinery – respective rooms
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

History

• paying $125,000 for that site in June 1899. – add inflation values.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• Ref 41 checks out.
• Ref 7 checks out about the "allowing a grand entrance on Riverside Drive", though it might be a bit too close to the source wording. Original: allows for a grand facade on Riverside Drive.
  • Fixed. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• to buy the neighboring plot to the north. at 89th Street – I think there's an additional stray full-stop here.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• Its final cost was estimated at $750,000, not including furniture. – ...,excluding furniture
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• Initially, the house was named in honor of Rice's wife, being referred to as "Villa Julia". – Why initially though?
  • Basically, the Rices were the first family to live in the house, and they just named it after Julia for reasons that I couldn't ascertain. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• Ref 13 supports on the name
• Julia Rice had become annoyed that tugboats on the Hudson River (near the house) made frequent noises, – Julia Rice was annoyed at the frequent noises made by the tugboats on the Hudson River near the house, claiming that the noise...
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• including that year's financial crisis, – including the financial crisis (during) that year
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• and Julia Rice's fight against tugboat noise.[60][61] Julia herself cited noise from the tugboats – information here is a little repetitive.
  • I've trimmed the repetition. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• He paid cash for the home – don't you mean "paid in cash"?
  • For the time, yeah, that would be correct. However, in the modern day, "paid cash" simply indicates that someone didn't take out a loan to pay for the house, rather than that they paid in literal dollar bills. (You could "pay cash" for a house but pay with a check, for example.) Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• so it asked the local preservation group Landmark West for assistance. – so it requested assistance from the local preservation group Landmark West
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
• repairs to the roof – roof repairs
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

That's all for me. Putting on hold.--ZKang123 (talk) 07:28, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

• Thanks for the review ZKang123. I've now addressed all the issues you brought up. Epicgenius (talk) 14:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
  • Satisfied with all the changes made. Passed.--ZKang123 (talk) 01:09, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.