Talk:Islam in the Arctic

Removal of text

I have removed two pieces of text. The first referred to Tatarstan, which is not in the Arctic Circle so off-topic. The second is about Irkutsk, also not in the Arctic, with the completely false statement that it has the largest mosque in the Arctic. Mccapra (talk) 08:22, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

The statement that it was the largest mosque (holding 3000 as I recall offhand?) was sourced to the paper that said such; and Tatarstan was defined as a different region a thousand years ago (check the article on Tatarstan) and since it's made clear that the explorers noted the Midnight Sun in the region, they were most definitely speaking of the Arctic. Irkutsk is Siberia, which is included in the Krainii Sever which is the Russian term for "Arctic" as they define the Far North by different latitudal measurements than the United States does, see Far North (Russia). Have restored the versions pending any further detail. YourUsernameWillBePublic (talk) 13:32, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

I have removed this text and rference. I see it as adding nothing

 A [[donair]] restaurant named Zillman's is walking distance from the mosque, and owned by local Muslims.<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.zabihah.com/|title=Zillman's in Whitehorse, YT - Zabihah - Find halal restaurants near you with the original Halal restaurant guide|website=www.zabihah.com}}</ref>

The reference is to an advert Fiddle Faddle 18:53, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

It's not a big deal to me, but like the halal reindeer-meat farm, it just seems interesting to note the very few busineses operated by Muslims in the Arctic; private businesses are more interesting than just "works for a local grocer/oilCompany/transportRig". YourUsernameWillBePublic (talk) 22:47, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

YourUsernameWillBePublic, we just cannot use adverts as references. Fiddle Faddle 23:00, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Moving article

Reading on I see the content is about Yellowknife, Anchorage and Iqaluit, none if which is in the Arctic circle. If I take all of this out there won’t really be an encyclopaedic topic to write about. I’ve therefore change the title of the article to include the subarctic, which, being generous, kind of includes most of the content in the article as it stands. Mccapra (talk) 08:31, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

The intro says "and Krainii Sever" which is the term for the "Far North"; but I don't hugely object other than I'd ask to nix the strange "History of" in the title to make it shorter and more applicable. YourUsernameWillBePublic (talk) 13:29, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 12:29, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Midnight Sun Mosque in Inuvik

• ... that despite an extensive history of Islam in the Arctic, there is only one known Muslim living in Greenland? Source: https://www.icenews.is/2013/08/11/greenlands-sole-muslim-resident-fasts-21-hours/ - "Greenland’s sole Muslim resident fasts 21 hours...Azaqeer, who lives in the Greenland capital Nuuk, is the only Muslim residing in the country, where the sun goes down for just a few hours a day at this time of year."
  • ALT1:... that a single charity has helped construct the first mosques in three Canadian territories since 2010, to advance the presence of Islam in the Arctic? Source: Three separate statements in the article, each sourced to a different story.

• Comment: First DYK, feel free to show me what I've done wrong or help out :-)

Created by YourUsernameWillBePublic (talk). Self-nominated at 01:18, 30 July 2020 (UTC).

• YourUsernameWillBePublic, this is very interesting. Pity you didn't have this ready a week or two ago so we could have had it on the front page in time for the start of the hajj. Anyway, the article needs a good scrubbing. The opening sentence already has some issues, and I see problems with the references also--repeated references need to be consolidated, some are just bare URLs while others are fully cited, etc. So that's the first thing that needs to be taken care of. Timtrent, you helped move this--can you help get it ready for the front page? Drmies (talk) 01:25, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

• Drmies, I will look at some of the technical aspects, but the topic is entirely foreign to me. I was simply the reviewer at WP:AFC who accepted the draft. Fiddle Faddle 07:55, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

• Drmies,  Done All disambig links I could find now point to correct targets. One for YourUsernameWillBePublic to check is Alta.

All redlinks I could target to articles are targeted. There are three left. I am not sure on DYK's needs, but two seem sensible to leave in order to seek to spawn new articles. The third is debatable.

All references filled and consolidated using reFill. One had to be done manually Fiddle Faddle 08:39, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

• YourUsernameWillBePublic Is the Toronto welfare Center the Dawah center? Fiddle Faddle 08:56, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

• I think the "Alta" points to the correct place (I assume someone fixed it and I did not have it pointing there?), I am not sure what the ReFill consolidation/ manual talk means, and looking on Google it seems like the "Muslim Welfare Centre" is in Toronto East on McLevin Street and the Toronto Dawah Centre is in Toronto West on Bloor Street...so I would assume they are not related to each other, but I do not know for certain. FYI, Eid starts tonight. YourUsernameWillBePublic (talk) 12:59, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

• YourUsernameWillBePublic, Thank you for correcting the Nenets issue. I did my best to remove all disambiguation links. I have tried hard to find targets for all redlinks, too. I am not sure if reFill is a gadget (preferences pane) or not, I have it in my tools segment of my left hand margin and use it to fill in and consolidate citations and references. I implemented it years ago and have forgotten how. Fiddle Faddle 13:17, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

• User:Timtrent, I pinged you because you and I are old hands at this, and YourUsernameWillBePublic is not. I appreciate all your help. This article, and again I'll say it's very interesting, needs some more work to get on the front page. I did some copy edits and cleaned up some citations, but there's plenty more. YourUsernameWillBePublic, look at notes 2 and 5, for instance--they are incomplete (as are 16 through 20, and probably more). Also, I think there should be a bit of historical background in the Russia section (see my edit summary on that Tatarstan paragraph), just a bit, also with a bit more on the CDUMES, since it matters who controls what. So let's see what we can do. Drmies (talk) 16:30, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

• Drmies, I'm tempted to suggest we might look for several more ALT hooks. Meanwhile I'm trying to get reFILL to do some more work. Arcane stuff I enjoy. I must be odd. Fiddle Faddle 16:39, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

• Further hooks for consideration prior to forming into formal ALT hooks:

• The first mass immigration of Muslims into the Northwest Territories were following the 1970s boom in Arctic petroleum exploration.
• The Islamic Community Center of Anchorage Alaska was the first purpose-built mosque in the US state
• At the outset of the 20th century, Finland was the only country in Northern Europe to have a native Muslim population
• Norway's largest Arctic mosque is in Tromso, built in 2006

These are four that I can find that may be worth pursuing. I have not formed them into full hooks. They have varying merits Fiddle Faddle 16:52, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

• @Drmies and YourUsernameWillBePublic: I've tried very hard to look at all the references and filled them out to the best of my now cross eyed ability. I have done all of them (probably). Please check that my work looks useful. One, plus its text, I have removed and migrated to the talk page in case it becomes useful later Fiddle Faddle 18:59, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

• @Drmies and YourUsernameWillBePublic: I've just been through the references again and fleshed out those with less complete parameters. Author names had slipped in a couple of cases, and one incorrect cite template had been used. Who knew there was a {{cite conference}}? Very useful! Fiddle Faddle 07:34, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

• Sorry, a few of the changes, like Nenets to Yamal, are really confusing to me and seem incorrect (though I appreciate the help, the references look much better now especially) - but like this edit that says ARE is United Arab Emirates, ARE is Arab Republic of Egypt, UAE is United Arab Emirates - I believe I had correct the first time but now it is incorrect. Similarly the paragraph about Irkutsky was removed entirely, even though you'll notice it is indeed Far North (Russia) (and listed in that article as such). The title of the article really should just be "Islam in the Arctic" and only got to its current state because of an erroneous belief that "Arctic=Arctic Circle" but the Arctic Circle is a more restrictive area - whereas everything in the article is considered "Arctic" by either Western or Russian definitions of the term. I have no idea why it has "History of" as the title, Islam in Canada, Islam in Russia, Islam in Norway, etc do not have "History of". I would certainly recommend moving it to a shorter title. YourUsernameWillBePublic (talk) 22:51, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

• YourUsernameWillBePublic, no-one expects you to stand back. If things are incorrect please correct them. Fiddle Faddle 22:56, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
• YourUsernameWillBePublic, I'm not sure what you mean with "paragraph about Irkutsky". Irkutsk was mentioned, but that was incorrect: the 1914 mosque was planned to be built in Yakutsk, according to the source. I changed UAE back to Egypt; please see my edit summary. As for the title, I believe you are correct: Bkissin, I think we should move it back--thanks. Drmies (talk) 23:20, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

You're right, wow, I can't believe I confused Irkutsk and Yakustk in the ten seconds between reading the article and then typing the sentence...that's embarrassing for me :) Nevertheless my point stands, since Yakustk is also Arctic/FarNorth by Russian definition - so the detail on the pre-war mosque should still be included rather than removed. YourUsernameWillBePublic (talk) 02:08, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

No worries, but the pre-war mosque wasn't removed. Drmies (talk) 13:36, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Is there anything else I need to do that I am able to do, or is this ready to go? YourUsernameWillBePublic (talk) 17:24, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

• YourUsernameWillBePublic, please look at the Russian table with percentages--the reference doesn't work (see edit summary in history). I like the first hook, and I am not sure about ALT1--the ZTF, according to the text, built two mosques; the third one is, I suppose, the warehouse in Whitehorse, but the text does not say it was done by ZTF. Plz check if you want to run with ALT1. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 21:42, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
  • I am fine running Alt1 or any of the hooks, no difference to me. The third mosque was the warehouse purchased by the private donor to be torn down and a custom-built mosque put in its place by ZTF is my reading of the sources. I see you moved the reference to cover all of the locations with a single footnote which seems wise/better - the table just got copied over only-the-northern-parts from Islam in Russia. an Islamic charity, the Zubaidah Tallab Foundation, will make a substantial contribution to the cost of the [whitehorse] mosque YourUsernameWillBePublic (talk) 23:58, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
    • YourUsernameWillBePublic, That last link is fine for ALT 1, but by now I have made so many edits to the article (and I tweaked your hook a bit) that I cannot possibly be the one to pass it. User:BlueMoonset, can you ask someone to look at this DYK nomination? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 20:38, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

• Full review needed by new reviewer. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:28, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

•  Reviewing... Flibirigit (talk) 03:45, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing:
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - ?

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - ?
• Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Article moved to mainspace on July 24, and nomination within seven days. Length is adequate. Article is neutral in tone, and meets DYK sourcing requirements. All images used in the article are free licenses on the Commons. The first two images would be very suitable to the DYK image slot if incorporated into a hook. Nominator has less than five DYK credits, therefore QPQ is not required. Several concerns have been flagged for possible plagiarism. Please see here The first sentence from the opening paragraph appears verbatim from the web site listed, as does the final sentence in the European Arctic section. Also, it is not necessary to mention the Lebanese citizen by name. ALT0 is misleading, since the statement in the article says "as of 2013", whereas the proposed hook makes it seem current in the year 2020. ALT1 seems to focus more about the charity, rather than a focus on Islam in the Arctic. I suggest reorganizing ALT1. Also, please consider using the first two photos and their captions as potential hooks. I think both would draw a lot of readers to this article with those great images. So far this is a good effort for a first DYK! Flibirigit (talk) 04:09, 13 August 2020 (UTC) Flibirigit (talk) 04:09, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

I am confused by pretty much everything you said, but clicking that "CopyVio Detector" I see it indicates that this page is a copyvio of a garbage dump page that just copied the Wiki article, not vice versa. (it also copies verbatim from Islam in Iceland and elsewhere ending up with garbled nonsensical sentences). I don't object to removing the name of the Greenlander. No idea what you mean by hooks, images and alts so I think I am done with Wikipedia I have done everything I can do and spent ages trying to finetune this to make it "good enough" to compete against far less sourced, less neutral and less free articles that appear in the DYK. Just feels like a failure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by YourUsernameWillBePublic (talk • contribs)

This nomination is not a failure. It is a work in progress with a lot of potential. I am sorry to hear you are frustrated. I find that reviewing the information at Wikipedia:Did you know often helps newer contributors. I am happy to answer any specific questions. I hope you do want to continue. Flibirigit (talk) 16:58, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Flibirigit, Am I correct in understanding that citing the hook itself instead of saying that it has references within the article will allow this nomination to move forward (assuming the cite to be acceptable)? Please ping me in any reply Fiddle Faddle 18:34, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Flibirigit,If I'm correct, I have references for the three:

• Inuvik
• Nunavut
• Whitehorse

All by the Zubaidah Tallab Foundation

What else is required, please? Fiddle Faddle 18:55, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Flibirigit, let's start by putting the copyvio thing to rest: it's a ruse. I wrote that sentence, and it's a summary from the article by Laruelle and Hohmann. Surely you agree that this is some kind of dump. Timtrent, YourUsernameWillBePublic, let's see if we can't figure out a new hook. Drmies (talk) 20:02, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Drmies, I have referenced the existing hook? Also suggested some possibles way ^^^^^ up there Fiddle Faddle 20:05, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

I know, Timtrent, but the nominator suggested something else. Oh, I see your suggestions now--sorry I neglected to look up. This nomination is getting a bit long and I hope we can get it on the way. I have one:

• ALT2 ...that in Canada a movement of Muslims toward the Arctic started in the early 1900s, and that Muslims in remote northern regions tend toward pluralism, disregarding Sunni vs. Shia differences? Drmies (talk) 20:09, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

@Drmies: If we have a hook already that is liked, and we have three refrences for it (bulleted just above) then, while I like your ALT2 well enough, why not go with the one that can be referenced easily (I did the heavy lifting on that, and it was heavy) and get this moved forward? I am not sure that the original nom is playing any more. I can be of no use from tonorrow on for a week. I'm away. I'm pretty much done for the day here, too. Fiddle Faddle 20:20, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

OK, Timtrent--let's leave that for the reviewer then--Flibirigit, the initial hook, is it well-sourced enough now? Drmies (talk) 20:22, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

I am aware of the comments above. I will finish the review later today or tomorrow. Cheers. Flibirigit (talk) 17:48, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Flibirigit The photos used in this article are beautiful and I am so impressed that we got them on Wikipedia. May I recommend using the caption for the first image as a hook? It should also be noted that the quote of Amier Suliman is unsourced and just mentioned in the caption. That should probably be mentioned in the body as well. Anyways, here's a hook... HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 02:05, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

• ALT3: ...that despite an extensive history of Islam in the Arctic, the first mosque (pictured) in the Canadian Arctic was built in 2010? [1]

• If the general consensus is that this site has copied from Wikipedia, I feel that is sufficient discussion to alleviate the concerns here at Earwig. @Timtrent:, please do ensure each of those three sources you found are put into the article with the corresponding mentions of the charity. Also, if you want to reorganise ALT1 slightly to focus more on Islam than the charity, please do. @Drmies:, ALT2 seems interesting, but it seemed to say that only the Canadian Arctic muslims practiced pluralism, as opposed to all Arctic muslims. Also, if you can make use of the photo of the Midnight Sun Mosque in the hook, please do. ALT3 seems like a simple and catchy hook. It would be best if mentioned in the corresponding section for the Canadian Arctic. @HickoryOughtShirt?4:, do you mind adding it into the body? Overall this nomination looks promising. I had added DYK credits for both Timtrent and Drmies for their ample contributions. Flibirigit (talk) 04:58, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

• ALT3 is approved. It is verified with the source, mentioned inline and properly cited. The corresponding photo is properly licensed, clear at a low resolution and greatly enhances the hook. Article adheres to all other DYK criteria. I am willing to revisit the review if updates are made to suppport the other hooks proposed. Cheers. Flibirigit (talk) 18:28, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

• @Flibirigit: I am content with ALT3. I am away and cannot play right now. Fiddle Faddle 18:31, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The new article Islamic views on fasting in the polar regions is thin on sources and could usefully be trimmed and turned into a section of this article. Mccapra (talk) 12:28, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your opinion. But that article is separated from Fasting in Islam because that article may contain more information about the "In polar regions" section of the article Fasting in Islam. So, I think that article should not merge to this article. Wiki N Islam (talk) 13:33, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Specifically, it's from Fasting in Islam#In polar regions. If it stays separate, you need to provide attribution, see Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Pelagic ( messages ) – (07:30 Mon 26, AEDT) 20:30, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

I'm neutral on whether it's likely to develop into a larger stand-alone piece. Are you planning to expand it, Wiki N Islam? A summary section could be added here, at Islam in the Arctic. I do wonder whether it's beneficial to separate coverage of fasting from that of prayer, when both are affected by the same length-of-day issue. Pelagic ( messages ) – (07:41 Mon 26, AEDT) 20:41, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Actually, the current structure of Islam in the Arctic is mostly focused on history and sociology. Perhaps a paragraph under General Issues? Pelagic ( messages ) – (07:55 Mon 26, AEDT) 20:55, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Good question. But while reading, I noticed that nothing is mentioned about Islamic practices or fasting in the Arctic in the section "General issues". Moreover I think the section should rename according to the contents mentioned in the section "General issues". What's your opinion about this? Wiki N Islam (talk) 04:11, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Good proposal. I see how the subject of prayer can be linked to that article. Thanks for your opinion. Wiki N Islam (talk) 04:17, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

I’ve added a new subsection to this article that uses some of the sources in the other article though it ended up not really being a merger. Mccapra (talk) 11:35, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Wintertime darkness

The "General Arctic issues" section discusses only the problem of daily prayers and Ramadan in the summertime, when the sun never sets, but surely the same problem occurs in the wintertime, when the sun never rises. —Mahāgaja · talk 12:51, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

 Fixed Daniel Case (talk) 06:14, 18 December 2021 (UTC)