Talk:Ivan Aivazovsky/Archive 1

Archive 1

Comment

I decided to change Aivazovsky's nationality to Russian for the following reasons. First, even though his father was Armenian, Aivazovsky was born, studied, worked and died in Russia. And he was a Russian citizen, to my knowledge. Second, Lenin was of Jewish and Swedish origin, but it doesn't make him a Swedish or Jewish revolutionary leader. The world calls him the Russian revolutionary leader (sorry, if I took Lenin as an example :)). That was my reasoning, maybe I'm wrong. KNewman 02:34, Aug 27, 2004 (UTC)

I agree. He was of Armenian descent, but most sources refer to him as a Russian artist. Milou ge 20:01, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

I would positively disagree with that. Indeed he tried to be Russian; however, in Russia ethnicity was always and is always more important than place of birth. Anyone who was not ethnically Russian never been considered one. I am not sure about Lenin Swedish and Jewish background (I think it is completely incorrect) but "World" calls many people wrong. Lenin had parents who were Russian nobility if anything. Trotsky was also called Russian revolutionary but Russians called him Jewish all the time. Aivazovky tried to look Russian and even modified name but I am sure among his peers he was always considered Armenian. This by no means makes him less of an artist and only proves that real talent can survive even in tough conditions.

Have you any evidence that Armenians were persecuted in Imperial Russia? Perhaps it was Russia who instigated the Armenian Genocide? --Ghirla ^-трёп- 18:29, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm proposing to give link to the article "Simferopol gymnasium №1". It's Aivazovsky's first school Kovbasa 00:03, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

The descendants of Aivazovsky are quite certain of his Armenian heritage and the the role it played in his life. Such was the connection, he was motivated enough to throw a medal into the Black Sea from the beach opposite his home in Feodosia (bestowed on him by the Ottoman Sultan of the time) after hearing of the Armenian Genocide. Additionally his brother, Gabriel Aivazian Aivazovski)(1812-1880) was a very known Armenian philologist, historian, translator and the archbishop, the head of Bessarabian, Novonakhichevanian and later Tiflisian churches.(According to some sources) It is interesting to hear in some circles that the father or grandfather was reputed to be Turkish and in fact, some in Turkey do lay claim to him. When at Dolmabahche or Yildiz Palaces, I had to put forward to quite a number of Turks that it was popularly held that his heritage was Armenian and not Turkish. I don't agree that he 'tried to look Russian' but I think he was mindful of the need to try and establish a relationship with the Czar and Russia, the Sultan and Turkey along with his fellow Armenians. Today it is known as 'marketing' which describes how one identifies an attractive market segment and then creates a value proposition for that segment. We can see the result of this when we hear that Czar Nicholas I declared that he would buy anything the artist painted and the many paintings we see now in the Turkish royal palaces. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nt works (talk • contribs) 10:56, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

External links

The external links on this page were all commercial sites or "information" fronts for commercial sites selling "hand painted" reproductions (allot of them Russian). There was some usable info but it was impossible to decide who was more or less "spammy" and I think leaving any one would lead to a spammers edit war. Maybe links to non-commercial reliable sources would be more appropriate. 70.208.210.191 (talk) 16:22, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Ortography

Maybe the Traditional Armenian ortography can also be added, as it is only using the Soviet Mesrobian system —Preceding unsigned comment added by T Acamapichtli (talk • contribs) 15:26, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

"Ukrainian painter"

Please, don't add any more the allegation that Aivazovsky was a Ukrainian painter. He was ethnically Armenian and lived in Russia. Crimea was transferred to Ukrainian SSR only in 1954 and is not a Ukrainian ethnic territory. Allegation that he is a Ukrainian painter is the same as to claim that Immanuel Kant (born in Königsberg, Prussia, from 1945 in Russia) was a Russian philosopher. And anyway, the vast majority of sources mention him as a Russian. The opinion that he was Ukrainian is insignificant and absurd. — Glebchik (talk) 14:47, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Meanwhile, curators at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York have reclassified three artists as Ukrainian; the artists—Ivan Aivazovsky, Arkhyp Kuindzhi, and Ilya Repin—were previously labelled as Russians, according to a report in ARTnews.

So the opinion of art historians at the Metropolitan Museum of Art is insignificant and absurd, am I understanding you correctly? Cesare Urbino (talk) 01:06, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

That’s how history works. Giuseppe Verdi was born in the French Empire, but is today called Italian. Richard Wagner was born there as well, but todays is called German. 2600:1012:A003:3867:7187:21D2:3435:CE94 (talk) 03:24, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

What are the origins and meanings of surnames Verdi and Wagner? Also what were likely their first languages? 2A02:A020:61:267B:1:0:8923:AA34 (talk) 08:55, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Հովհաննես Այվազյան

I severely doubt Aivazovsky signed his paintings in the reformed Soviet orthography. The correct rendering would have been Յովհաննէս Այվազեան. I'd have to see one of the paintings bearing his signature to be sure, though. JackalLantern (talk) 12:21, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

I agree. He MUST have used the traditional orthography. The current (which you call Soviet) orthography was accepted more than 2 decades after his death. --Երևանցի ^talk 22:30, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

HE WAS ARMENIAN

But the most important reason is that he said.<<Yes, I live in Russia but I am ARMENIAN and so is my nation. Russia is my second homeland. My first homeland is Armenia.>> He is ARMENIAN not russian not ukrainian not turkish etc. He is Armenan sea painter. Please dont change facts! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.162.237.88 (talk) 15:00, 13 December 2013 (UTC)