Talk:Jagdgeschwader 1 (World War II)

Recent edit

Please justify these restorations to July diff on the Talk page -- the article has been stable and has been edited by others. The issues that were noted in the maintenance tags that the edit removed have not been addressed either. K.e.coffman (talk) 20:10, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

I don't need to justify it. You need to justify the tags. Dapi89 (talk)

@Dapi89: Please see threads above: "Unreliable sources tag" & "Excessive intricate detail".

In addition to the fan page listed above, there are about 15 citations to Schuelke which is http://www.ordersofbattle.darkscape.net/site/sturmvogel/FGnorm.html -- a most likely non RS link. K.e.coffman (talk) 22:58, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

The link doesn't work anyway.

Leave it with me. This article can be covered so easily by published sources because it's one of the best known and covered units in the Luftwaffe. Dapi89 (talk) 18:18, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Does the editor acknowledge the sourcing and the prose to be problematic? K.e.coffman (talk) 19:10, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Prose not really, some of the sourcing (a handful of citations). I don't like the use of Americanisms like "kill". The German term was Luftsieg. I'll comb through the article later. Dapi89 (talk) 13:14, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Sources

@K.e.coffman and Dapi89: Are we happy with this article now? AIRcorn (talk) 21:55, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

@Aircorn: The article still contains a number of questionable sources, such as these dubious and / or personal websites:

• http://www.jg1.org/oesau/History/RealJG1/History.aspx
• http://www.vectorsite.net/avhe162.html
• http://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg1.htm
• http://www.luftwaffe.be/miajg1.html
• https://web.archive.org/web/20080206215827/http://www.michael-reimer.com/CFS2/CFS2_Profiles/ETO_AXIS_Luftwaffe_JG1.html

This appears to be a Lanser-Hefte booklet of dubious provenance: http://www.fliegerhorst-störmede.de. Have not looked at others in detail, but this does not look promising. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:57, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Jagdgeschwader 1 (World War II)/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

I'm nominating this page for a GAR because it does not meet GA criteria 2.b (Verifiable with no original research: all inline citations are from reliable sources) and Neutral: 4 (it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias). The article contains multiple non-RS websites as sources and is written from a fan's POV. It has been tagged for RS and NPOV since 2016. --K.e.coffman (talk) 02:14, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

RM dupe wikilinks; fn 25 cited to Weal 2007 but there isn't a 2007 publication in the References; typo?Keith-264 (talk) 09:44, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

As a slightly drive-by comment, this para is not good:

"The Luftwaffe units committed to battle after the D-Day landings suffered further catastrophic losses against the overwhelming numbers of allied fighters present. In the ten weeks of action following D-Day, II./JG 1 lost 106 aircraft (41 in air combat) and 30 pilots, for just 32 air claims. Many experienced and irreplaceable Experte were killed during this time. Weber, Gruppenkommandeur of III./JG 1 (136 claims) was killed in action against Polish Wing Mustangs on 7 June 1944, north of Paris, while on 17 June 1944, Leutnant 'Toni' Piffer (35 claims) was shot down and killed in aerial combat with USAAF fighters over La Cordonnerie."

Attributing the heavy losses to the Luftwaffe being outnumbered repeats a bunch of myths - most importantly, while the Allied air forces were much larger than the Luftwaffe, they were also equipped with much better aircraft flown by much better trained pilots. The Luftwaffe did quite well early in the war when it was often outnumbered but had better aircraft, pilots and tactics than its opponents. By mid-1944 most of the Luftwaffe was a third-rate force which was rapidly collapsing. This also mixes up actual losses, which can be assumed to be accurate, with "claims" which were usually made in much greater number than actual "kills" - hence why the Luftwaffe had a process in place to confirm kills. The use of the jargon term 'Experte' is also unsatisfactory. Nick-D (talk) 11:13, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

please hold off on acting on this GAR until the original editor returns...auntieruth (talk) 15:23, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

The GA nominator has not edited since June 2018. In any event, I left a msg on their Talk page. --K.e.coffman (talk) 01:20, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

The sourcing issue aside, I think this article isn't up to our present standards for GA or A-Class (in this case, the assessments took place back in late 2008). There are several uncited paragraphs, the prose doesn't flow well in places (I find the operation history hard going with repeated "On X Month 194X...", which could imply the wing wasn't flying in between recited dates) and some points seem trivial for this article, being about the wing; naming of non-notable pilots when they are killed and the list of group commanders are some examples. Zawed (talk) 22:19, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

The prose in this article is messy, and includes trivial details. There is way too much German jargon here, text that needs to be better consolidated into full paragraphs, and statements like "JG 1 experimented with several official and unofficial ways of downing the heavy bombers" (how does one use an "unofficial" method to destroy a plane in war?) and "some of the downed JG 1 pilots faced the wrath of Belgium civilians" show a lack of polish. This text does not make it clear if the relevant unit was involved in the described action: Another Allied pilot crash-landed after downing a German aircraft. Pilot Officer Andrzej Dromlewicz was credited for downing another German aircraft and Flight Lieutenant Mach shot down another German aircraft after a chase at ground level. Another German Fw 190 was shot down by his wing man, Warrant Officer Stanisław Bednarczyk. There might be a OR issue here. As it stands, this article should be delisted, as it is not up to snuff with GA standards. -Indy beetle (talk) 05:35, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Photos

Most of the photos here need to be removed. The aircraft did not belong with JG1 despite claims that they do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ianatheling (talk • contribs) 15:35, 25 December 2021 (UTC)