Talk:January 2016 United States blizzard

Dubbed "Jonas" by TWC

Just a heads up but the storm has been dubbed "Jonas" by the Weather Channel and its NBCUniversal parent media company. We run into this problem every year, I think a redirect would do but a mention in the article's body for NPOV sake wouldn't hurt either although we should try not to give into promotion. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:14, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

I do think the name Jonas should be mentioned in the lede, a lot of international media is using this name, Le Monde, Independent, Guardian, Telegraph, Spainish TV, Australia BBC etc...Lacunae (talk) 14:51, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

The problem is it lends WP:UNDUE weight on this particular name, I guarantee that this winter storm has been dubbed other names here in the United States for example. This combined with the fact that the naming by The Weather Channel which gets its revenue through these kinds of things is controversial with the weather community. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:04, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Please do elaborate on how WP:UNDUE is applicable. I've done it in as neutral a way I can think of, though I'm not sure why the corporate ownership link of the weather channel is relevant here. I don't think a name which I can find reference to in 3 languages in 4 countries in 10 minutes or so is being unduly weighted to whatever other names are being used.Lacunae (talk) 15:31, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

• I think the current way the TWC's name has been mentioned in the article is sufficient, and it shouldn't be mentioned in the lead. Let TWC use it for their own purposes(to sensationalize the storm to get viewers and money), we don't need to. 331dot (talk) 17:57, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

• Now I see the WP:UNDUE issue, multiple international media organisations are equal in weight to light-hearted mockery voting names and localised radio stations. By your logic you might want to consider doing something about Big Mac as I hear McDonalds gets a lot of customers and makes a lot of money out of them.Lacunae (talk) 18:30, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

• It's typically refereed to as "a winter storm" or "a blizzard" and doesn't really have a common name outside of the Weather Channel. Incidentally when I check most news sources, they don't use the term Jonas to refer to it. I think the naming section adequately covers it. I don't think we should label Snowstorm Jonas as a common name. Jolly Ω Janner 18:40, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

• I understand Americans have a deep seated reservation about TWC names, but from an international perspective, the name Jonas is being widely used. http://www.svt.se/vader/fragor_och_svar/vinterstormen-jonas-drabbar-usa http://www.spiegel.de/reise/aktuell/usa-schneesturm-jonas-legt-flugverkehr-in-den-usa-lahm-a-1073384.html as a favour to your non-american friends, please consider referring to this name in the lede for easy confirmation that this page is the one being looked for.Lacunae (talk) 18:48, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

• I've gone ahead and added it to the lede in a similar fashion to February 2013 nor'easter (which was our first blockbuster storm with a TWC name). Lacunae has clearly shown it meets WP:COMMONNAME so there's no issue from a Wikipedia standpoint for including it (Winter Storm Jonas redirects to this article already), but since it's a commercial move it's been decided that we won't title articles with their names. If other names (such as "Snowzilla") become commonly used, they can be added accordingly in the future. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 18:58, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Okay, as I have said I am fine with the name in the article as it is notable. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:43, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

I've re-added it to the lede, as I've tried to make a reasoned argument for inclusion, without a counter-argument it appears a touch WP:JDLI, I get the fact the name is commercial, however it is more notable than others, and has been used in a plethora of international publications and languages, and for the sake of non-American wikipedia users the inclusion in the lede, provides a validation that the page is relevant to the Jonas storm without the need to read to the end of the article. I welcome any reasoned points of view which can demonstrate that this inclusion is detrimental to the article and/or warning effectiveness at this point.Lacunae (talk) 21:31, 22 January 2016 (UTC) I'm unconvinced adding "Snowzilla" makes the lede balanced, as it appears in my searches to be a name from the Washington Post (somewhat in irony regarding naming by TWC) and is only used by them and some blogs, the Jonas name has been used by BBC, Many British newspapers, German Spiegel, the Swedish public broadcaster, Le Monde in France.Lacunae (talk) 22:00, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Not sure if this counts but news from Bangkok Thailand is using "Snowzilla", I am also seeing Russian sources as well. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:12, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Trivia

"Hollywood Life reported that the storm name Jonas has received memes from social media including a reference to the Jonas Brothers." @Knowledgekid87: This is trivia and has no place on an encyclopedia. Jolly Ω Janner 21:32, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Went ahead and removed the bit in question. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 22:22, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

I have no problem with its removal, a mention on my talk-page rather than here would have also done as well though. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:37, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Its specific to the article, so definitely needed to be noted on the article's talk page. Jolly Ω Janner 23:50, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

2015–16 North American winter § Late January storm complex

Editors of this article, if you would not only contribute to this article about the storm but also to the storm's summary here, I would highly appreciate it. Thanks. Dustin (talk) 21:37, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Storm Jonas

I don't follow: why is the name "Storm Jonas" problematic or controversial? It's certainly in the RS's. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:18, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

#Dubbed "Jonas" by TWC should cover your question. Jolly Ω Janner 03:46, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

I have heard that winter storms unlike tropical systems/windstorms are not the same. If you would like some further reading on the matter there is this: [1], [2] and [3]. There is also a statement from the NWS "The National Weather Service does not name winter storms because a winter storm's impact can vary from one location to another, and storms can weaken and redevelop, making it difficult to define where one ends and another begins." Like the name or don't like the name using them here in the United States is controversial. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 04:04, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

OK, but don't RS's "trump" whether or not it's controversial? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:49, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

We're taking the neutral route, and following NOAA, by not giving any unofficial name the title. They redirect to the page, but that's about it. Same practice was upheld with the February 2013 nor'easter which received the name "Nemo" from TWC. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 05:00, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

It is mentioned in the lead of the article as well as its own section, to me that is enough as it is definitely notable enough for inclusion. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:33, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

In the news

Where is the proper venue to suggest that some of this should be included in the "in the news" section on the main page? CatcherStorm ^talk 16:50, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates#U.S. Blizzard (redux). Jolly Ω Janner 16:54, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Roof collapse

• Roof collapses on historic Donk's Theater, known as "Virginia's Lil Ole Opry" http://www.richmond.com/weather/article_0c94ce8f-a916-597a-99fd-fa98b4a3d910.html
• Partial Roof Collapse Reported at Westfield Trader Joe’s During Storm https://www.tapinto.net/towns/scotch-plains-slash-fanwood/categories/news/articles/partial-roof-collapse-reported-at-westfield-trade-3
• Roof Collapses at Bel Air Store: County Executive http://patch.com/maryland/belair/roof-collapsed-bel-air-store-county-executive
• HORSES TRAPPED AFTER PARTIAL ROOF COLLAPSE AT BARN IN POOLESVILLE http://www.mymcmedia.org/horses-trapped-after-partial-roof-collapse-at-barn-in-poolesville/
• In Montgomery County, the roof of an apartment complex’s utility building partially collapsed under heavy snow https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/double-digit-snowfall-blankets-the-dc-region-with-more-to-come/2016/01/23/30b7a46e-c1bb-11e5-bcda-62a36b394160_story.html prokaryotes (talk) 21:24, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Snow Death in Ohio

Unfortunate this happened. 18 year old killed by a truck while sledding. http://portsmouth-dailytimes.com/news/5247/sledding-teen-killed-by-truck Spongefan (talk) 22:35, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

GA?

The article was upgraded to GA status, but was there a GA review? I don't see one. 173.167.48.177 (talk) 09:27, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

There was no GA review, so I have removed it. The article is close to GA-status at first glance, but the event only happened a few days ago, so it will be a while before a formal review is requested. Jolly Ω Janner 09:33, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

It needs a lot more work before GA. The meteorological history in particular is lacking and there's virtually no coverage of the storm's aftermath. These huge events tend to be quite overwhelming to cover in their entirety, so I don't really expect this behemoth to be ready for a GAN for several months. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 17:31, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Images of coastal flooding

There are plenty of pictures of the snow, but not much of the coastal flooding, which could warrant a disaster declaration. Here are some I took. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:18, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

• 
  File:January 2016 blizzard in Ocean City - flooding.JPG
• 
  File:January 2016 blizzard in Ocean City - 9th Street (2).JPG
• 
  File:January 2016 blizzard in Ocean City - boardwalk.JPG
• 
  File:January 2016 blizzard in Ocean City - 5th Street.JPG
• 
  File:January 2016 blizzard in Ocean City - 11th Street.JPG
• 

Storm naming section

I tagged the section for an overreliance on WP:PRIMARY sources: specifically, various articles using various names. This is kind of getting into WP:OR territory. I think it would be better to find secondary sources discussing the naming of the storm and base the section on those. I think the New York Times article already cited is a good start. RJaguar3 | u | t 21:09, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

I don't really see any issues with this section. "Jonas" is cited with four non-primary sources, including two international, and "Snowzilla" has one non-primary. "Anna" is a station-specific name that doesn't get wide coverage, but warrants mention. I've added another source for the generic names for good measure. The practice of naming is covered in the "see also" article, and going any more in-depth in this article is tangential. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 21:49, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

@Cyclonebiskit: I think there's a misunderstanding about what constitutes a primary source. As used in the article, the four "Jonas" sources are just sources that happen to use the "Jonas" name without discussing the name itself, hence, a primary source. I agree the added source is an improvement. RJaguar3 | u | t 22:41, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

@RJaguar3: The usage of "Jonas" originates from The Weather Channel, no one else, so they're the only one that can be considered a primary source. All sources not affiliated with TWC are independent sources, but don't constitute as primary sources. The existence of the names are not controversial in and of themselves—i.e. usage of primary sources, regardless of interpretation of what a primary source is, has no bearing on the subject's inclusion—it's the implementation that's the source of controversy and that aspect is covered separately from this article. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 22:57, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Rename to "January 2016 North American blizzard"?

Since the article states that the storm has affected Newfoundland and Nova Scotia, which are obviously not part of the United States, should the title be changed from "United States" to "North American"? --L1A1 FAL (talk) 22:31, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Effects in Atlantic Canada are immensely less notable and the primary focus of the article is on the United States. Changing the title would give undue weight to those arguably negligible effects. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 22:40, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

I agree with the current name. This article is almost entirely about the effects in the United States. Jolly Ω Janner 22:51, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Category and RSI Updated

[4]

Storm was updated to a Cat 5 and RSI 20.128 for the Northeast. Southeast RSI was also updated. Changed in-line have been made, but images need to be edited/updated.

Article name

User:Jdcomix just moved this article to "Storm complex" because there were several tornadoes involved. While this was undoubtedly true, I think that

1 - This move was not discussed and should have been discussed beforehand.

2 - The primary, most widespread impact of the storm (and its primary fame) was the blizzard, not the severe weather.

Several storms currently named "blizzards" on Wikipedia have had a severe weather element, but are known primarily for their snowfall impact. Here are some examples:

January 2000 North American blizzard featured 1 tornado: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/listevents.jsp?eventType=%28C%29+Tornado&beginDate_mm=01&beginDate_dd=22&beginDate_yyyy=2000&endDate_mm=01&endDate_dd=26&endDate_yyyy=2000&hailfilter=0.00&tornfilter=0&windfilter=000&sort=DT&submitbutton=Search&statefips=-999%2CALL

North American blizzard of 2003 featured 11 tornadoes: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/listevents.jsp?eventType=%28C%29+Tornado&beginDate_mm=02&beginDate_dd=15&beginDate_yyyy=2003&endDate_mm=02&endDate_dd=17&endDate_yyyy=2003&hailfilter=0.00&tornfilter=0&windfilter=000&sort=DT&submitbutton=Search&statefips=-999%2CALL

North American blizzard of 2009 featured 4 tornadoes: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/listevents.jsp?eventType=%28C%29+Tornado&beginDate_mm=12&beginDate_dd=16&beginDate_yyyy=2009&endDate_mm=12&endDate_dd=20&endDate_yyyy=2009&hailfilter=0.00&tornfilter=0&windfilter=000&sort=DT&submitbutton=Search&statefips=-999%2CALL

Anyway, lets discuss this before moving away from the "blizzard" moniker.Famartin (talk) 22:05, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Restored it to the original title as the even took place almost entirely within the United States. Jdcomix please discuss things like this with established articles beforehand. It's alright in the beginning when we're figuring things out, but this article has been linked across dozen and dozens of pages and haphazardly moving it creates a disgusting mess of redirects. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 23:11, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

My bad. Didn't realize this would create such a mess. Jdcomix (talk) 00:42, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Incorrect dates

I had edited the article to display the correct dates in the "Meteorological history" section, but it was reverted by Cyclonebiskit (talk · contribs) for "Not matching the sources". The dates in the source are actually the incorrect ones, rather then what I put. I want to revert this but I don't want to do edit warring. Opinions? --MarioProtIV (talk) 18:26, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

@MarioProtIV: everything needs to be backed up with sources. If you have reliable sources—preferably NOAA or another official weather agency, since this is regarding the meteorological history—then feel free to change it back with the newer citation(s). Otherwise it breaches WP:Original Research and can't be used. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 05:37, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

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Really?

For me, this happened. Gigantic blizzard dumps snow everywhere, and when it gets to my home, I get 1 inch. School isn't even cancelled. And I would prefer to study at home. 32ieww (talk) 03:44, 23 January 2017 (UTC) 32ieww (talk) 03:44, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

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See Also Section

Should North American blizzard of 2003 be included in the "see also" section? It could fit better than the 2017 blizzard because it dumped over 2 feet of snow in many of same cities.˜˜˜˜

Sure. But there are already a lot of links there, and all of them are duplicated by the "major snow and ice events" navbar at the bottom of the page. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 17:07, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

New England Section

I have added additional statistics on the extent of wind and snow in Southern New England during the storm 18:22, 01 August 2021 (EST)