Talk:Jenna Ellis

It's pleaded, not pled

From AP Stylebook, for example, "plead, pleaded, pleading."148.75.173.19 (talk) 15:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Parts of this read like a tabloid

Parts of this article seem to be reading like a WP:TABLOID, I don't know if a good portion of these snippets are note worthy. Like for instances their is mention of Ellis making a jest that somebody has a micro penis? Do we really need that in an Encyclopedic entry? Can I get some consensus? What is everybody else thoughts?PrecociousPeach (talk) 11:10, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Undecided about the joke that Ellis made. If enough sources report on it, it would be notable, as she's a representative of the President. Overall, though, this article needs a couple more sources (and an infobox) Turtleey (talk) 04:03, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

@Gamaliel: - would you like to respond to the above, as the editor who inserted the micropenis into this article? starship.paint (talk) 15:11, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

I think it's self-evidently newsworthy and notable when someone purporting to be a lawyer representing the president of the United States conducts themselves in this manner. Gamaliel (talk) 15:19, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

• Jenna Ellis and Rudy Giuliani.png (discussion)
• Jenna Ellis.png (discussion)

Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:37, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 December 2020

Hello I wanted to have access to edit this page since there are several inaccuracies and opinions in the text, Greetings Rhaekkar (talk) 14:35, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

@Rhaekkar: It appears that this edit put you over the threshold to WP:AUTOCONFIRMED status, so you should have the ability to edit this article (and other semi-protected articles) now. Please make sure to cite your sources and maintain a neutral, encyclopedic tone when editing! ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 14:56, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

We go by what WP:Reliable sources say. A list is at WP:RSP. starship.paint (talk) 15:12, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Note on article creation date (Dec 3, 2020)

Just reading up on Ellis today, as her name seeps into all these post-election discussions of US Presidential election "challenges," and I see this article was only created on December 3. Last month, in a profile on Ellis on "Hollywoodmask.com" (not a source I would readily cite in an article, I suspect), they amusingly noted that she didn't have a wikipedia article. See [1]. It might serve as a source for tracking down additional biographical information in more respected sources. E.g., her undergrad graduation year is not in the article yet, but it appears to be 2007.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 18:01, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Marriage/Personal life

Normally a BLP like this might say something about the subject's personal life. I can't find reliable sources on that yet. Based on her social media postings, it appears she married David Rives, a Christian minister, in May 2019, but may be separated now.[2]. She also has stated in writing that she is a sexual assault survivor[3] and was the victim of a violent crime at age 16.[4], so certainly we should be careful in any coverage of this in the article.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 18:26, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

• Rives tweeted on December 3, 2020: "No comment (other than clarifying that contrary to popular opinion, that woman is not my wife.)" (https://twitter.com/TheDavidRives/status/1334661368256090112)--Milowent • ^hasspoken 19:35, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Source about her personal life (and DOB on 11/1/84 in Colorado: https://www.thefocus.news/business/jenna-ellis-husband/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.149.168.52 (talk) 22:12, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Amkgp (talk) 12:57, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Jenna Ellis was a stern critic of Donald Trump before she became his legal adviser? Source: CNN

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ruth Williams Cupp‎

Created by Fuzheado (talk) and Starship.paint (talk). Nominated by Starship.paint (talk) at 08:30, 9 December 2020 (UTC).

• This article is new enough and long enough. The hook facts are cited inline, the article is neutral and I detected no copyright issues. We just need a QPQ. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:20, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

• @Cwmhiraeth: - thank you, QPQ is completed ^ starship.paint (talk) 06:56, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you. This is good to go. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:07, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

.

What is up with the second paragraph?

In the second paragraph, the following parenthetical has been left in: "(Under the US Constitution, Biden is NOT the President Elect until Congress meets on January 6th, 2021 and confirms him as such, based on the votes of the Electoral College)."

This does not conform with the rest of the style on this page. Those interested in the formalities of the title 'president-elect' could easily go to the "President-elect of the United States" wiki page which should be hyperlinked to the title of "President-elect Joe Biden" in the previous sentence.

Can someone fix this or else unlock it so I can fix it? Thanks.

JLeeKrohn (talk) 20:43, 18 December 2020 (UTC)JLeeKrohn

•  Done -- thanks... Nomoskedasticity (talk) 21:04, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2021

Jenna Ellis is also known as Jenna Lynn Rives, and is an attorney licensed in the State of Colorado since 10/24/2011, attorney number 44026. Arjaydee3 (talk) 19:07, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 22:13, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Eastcoasteditor11, please observe BRD

Eastcoasteditor11, I reverted your edit, take to Talk rather than edit war. This should not be the 2nd sentence. soibangla (talk) 18:51, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Colorado Supreme Court

Despite the CBS headline, she wasn't censured by the Colorado Supreme Court, but rather by one judge on the court who handles disciplinary matters. soibangla (talk) 19:46, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Added, thank you. starship.paint (exalt) 00:39, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Lying or reckless

Starship.paint, rather than interpret what a primary source says, I think we should rely on a secondary to do that for us.[5] soibangla (talk) 00:00, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

@Soibangla: - the NYTimes is mistaken. Several other secondary sources disagree. starship.paint (exalt) 00:34, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

1. 1. WaPo: [6] Perhaps most notably, as part of a deal that apparently helped Ellis avoid potentially stiffer penalties (some have sought the disbarment of lawyers who promoted such claims), the document says she also agreed that she acted “with at least a reckless state of mind.” … In response to the news, Ellis has sought to emphasize that she didn’t agree that she lied. Rather, she says, she was merely admitting that her claims were unintentionally false. … It was certainly a heck of a thing to be careless about, to the extent that’s what happened.

1. 2. WSJ: [7] Ms. Ellis admitted to making these 10 misstatements “with at least a reckless state of mind,” according to the judge’s order … She said she never lied about the election.

1. 3. Colorado Politics: [8] Ellis acknowledged in the agreement released on Wednesday that she violated a professional rule that prohibits attorneys from making "reckless, knowing, or intentional misrepresentations." Large wrote in his opinion that she did so "with a mental state that was 'at least reckless,'" describing a legal standard for assessing disciplinary options.

1. 4: Forbes: [9] the attorney admitted in court she had made “misrepresentations” while representing Trump after the election that were “reckless” and had a “selfish motive,”

1. 5: Law360: [10] ... duty of candor and that her mental state was "at least reckless.

1. 6. Patch: [11] In an opinion accepting a censure agreement between Yates and Ellis, Large noted that Ellis has agreed that her statements about the election being stolen were misrepresentations, which he said were made “with at least a reckless state of mind.”

   starship.paint (exalt) 00:34, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

I find your selective excerpts from these sources are not persuasively incisive. Other parts of the sources are more aligned with the NYT. soibangla (talk) 00:58, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

… and how about you quote them? I’ve provided both primary sourcing ([12], page 3 footnote for knowingly) The parties stipulate that Respondent acted with a mental state that was “at least reckless.” Stip. ¶ 13(b). For disciplinary purposes, recklessness is treated as equivalent to a knowing state of mind, with a limited exception not applicable here. and secondary sourcing. starship.paint (exalt) 09:51, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Well I was hoping this wouldn't be so difficult, but alright then:

WaPo: "Ellis actually admitted to 10 specific “misrepresentations.”"

WSJ: "admitting to falsely claiming" [NB: "She said she never lied about the election" was not in the agreement, it was on Twitter the next day]

Colorado Politics: "Ellis agreed that she made numerous "misrepresentations""

Forbes: "she admitted in court her claims about the election being “stolen” weren’t true"

Law360: "admitted to lying"

Patch (Colorado Newsline): "Ellis admits that multiple statements she made in late 2020 about the presidential election being stolen were “misrepresentations.”"

Note the judge said at least a reckless state of mind, not at most, and the ruling said "For disciplinary purposes, recklessness is treated as equivalent to a knowing state of mind..." (italics mine) soibangla (talk) 15:14, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

@Soibangla: - misrepresentations are false claims, but not all false claims are lies. As Ellis said, lying involves intentionality, and it is possible to gave a false statement without intending to. Therefore, in what you have cited above, only Law360 supports your case. Nevertheless, as a compromise, I have now written into the article what the various outlets have reported, including NYTimes and Law360. starship.paint (exalt) 01:16, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

I fully understand not all false claims are lies, of course, but I still find your interpretation incorrect. What do others think? soibangla (talk) 01:25, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

@Soibangla: - just want to clarify again, you quoted WaPo and Colorado Politics above as supporting your stance. Both mention “misrepresentations”. Are you claiming that misrepresentations = lies? starship.paint (exalt) 16:25, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

WP:SYNTH and WP:BLP

I just removed a pile of assertions sourced directly to social media as pure original research and synthesis. This is not acceptable content for a BLP - please don't do this. Please stick to sourcing from independent third-party RSes - David Gerard (talk) 01:14, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Legal Advisor for Trump Campaign

Following the sentence "After Trump became the Republican nominee for president, Ellis abandoned her earlier opposition towards him and would later express support for him in the 2016 presidential election." I suggest adding a sentence that says: "This led many to question whether Jenna Ellis is a hypocrite, an opportunist, or both." https://www.mediaite.com/election-2024/chronically-unemployable-losers-former-trump-advisor-says-trump-2024-is-run-by-lying-hypocrites-from-swamp/ ; https://coloradosun.com/2023/03/12/jenna-ellis-trump-opinion-nicolais/ HelperHelper1 (talk) 15:12, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

That’s not something that should be stated in Wikivoice, or at all. Acroterion (talk) 15:22, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Why not. Are you saying it is not true? HelperHelper1 (talk) 23:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

There was no fine levied in her GA case.

The maximum fine allowed under GA law for the charge to which she pleaded guilty is only $1000. The $5000 was stated as being restitution only, with zero monetary fine. 38.53.166.241 (talk) 17:48, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

"convicted felon" in first sentence?

There is currently a dispute on whether or not the first sentence should have the phrase "convicted felon" in it. I'm setting up this section of the talk page for further discussion to reach consensus. Nowa (talk) 13:44, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Just as it's not seen to be defining in terms of categorisation (there's no Category:People by criminal conviction), I really don't see it as having a place in the first sentence of the lede. There's more than sufficient coverage further down in the lede. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 14:32, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

This was discussed last year at WP:BLPN. See Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard/Archive350#Including_"convicted_felon"_in_the_opening_sentence_of_a_BLP. Editors laid out the reasons why it is not good form for us to do this and is better to instead detail the conviction in the lead. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:41, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

There is not a dispute, it was inserted and reverted to comply with broad consensus and the standing consensus on this article. Per BLP policy, biographical articles should not be means of shaming people. Acroterion (talk) 00:25, 8 February 2024 (UTC)