Talk:Jennie Finch

Biography assessment rating comment

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Discussion

Jennie Finch is quite a well-known name that I'm sure she's going to continue to use for name recognition, but she did just get married and makes a comment on her website that her name is now Jennie Daigle - Wondering if anyone has any idea how to incorporate this into an article that should probably remain under the public-name which most people would continue to recognize. --ABQCat 23:45, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

1. Redir from Jennie Daigle
2. Name in lead 'graph as altern
3. Lk from List of people by name: Daa-Dam#Dah-Dai:

   *[[Jennie Finch|Daigle,Jennie]], (born 1980), American softball pitcher

4. Lk from any other lists someone knows she's on

--Jerzy(t) 05:43, 2005 Feb 6 (UTC)

Image use

Do we really need all three images on this page? Excessive use of fair use images is a copyright violation. Kelly Martin 00:12, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Most famous softball player of all time?

1) isn't that like being the best ice skater in Ecuador? 2) It's an encyclopedia, not a fan page. Can we tone it down just a bit? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.207.2.2 (talk) 17:41, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

• I don't get your analogy, but yes, it should be toned down. That sounds a bit too fangirl/boy to me. Also, ya know. Cat Osterman is clearly the best softball player of all time ;p —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.161.159 (talk) 08:57, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Sources to possibly work into the article

• Personal biography - Update: This is now in the article
• ESPN Article
• Olympic stats
• More Olympic coverage
• Women’s Sports Foundation - Update: This is now in the article

A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 22:01, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that I've introduced this reference into the article yet, but here's the cite template filled out: <ref name="Reuters">{{cite web|url=http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKL24554520080725|title=Jennie Finch -- pinup, mother, crusader|author=Steve Keating|date=2008-07-25|publisher=[[Reuters]]|accessdate=2010-07-12}}</ref> A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 11:58, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Jennie Finch Search Engine

I've created a custom Google search engine. It still searches (almost all of) the Internet but emphasizes the cites already referenced in the article along with Finch's official web sites and blog. It also omits Wikipedia since Wikipedia is not a reliable source. I created this search engine so it can help us add cites to the remaining unsourced statements in the article. For some reason I don't understand, Google search engines are automatically blocked by Wikipedia, so I cannot link to it directly here. Instead, I have to introduce a typo into the URL. Here's the URL with a blank space in the middle of google: http://www.go ogle.com/cse/home?cx=010426977372765398405:q7un95ppwnq&hl=en I will update this search engine as we go. Depending on how much free time I have, I might eventually submit this article for WP:Good article status. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 11:50, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

"Although she is listed on the roster as a pitcher, Finch sometimes plays first base."

I have moved the following statement out of the article to this talk page: "Although she is listed on the roster as a pitcher, Finch sometimes plays first base." It seems true, but I have not found a source which directly says this. If anyone can find a source that says this, please let me know and we can add it back to the article. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 12:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Ali Fronzen?

I've removed the following from the article, "Ali Fronzen was her first pitching coach, who taught her 8 different pitches: fastball, changeup, dropball, screwball, curveball, riseball, offspeed, and four seam. Finch still uses the same pitches today." I cannot find any mention of "Ali Fronzen" so I'm wondering if this is vandalism that nobody caught. It's also false as her father was her first pitching coach. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 13:26, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm...I think that this probably was vandalism. I digged a little through the page history and it used to say "Ernie Parker was her first pitching coach." Earnie Parker appears to be a real person.[1] A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:25, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Did Finch have 109 or 119 wins in college?

The New York Times article says 109.[2] This edit says that it's 119 according to Finch's official web site,[3] but I can't find a page on her site about this. Can anyone help? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 01:18, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, I found a source, USA Today, that says 119.[4] So, who's right, the New York Times or USA Today? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 23:22, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I just sent a message to Finch via her web site asking which number is correct. Hopefully, I'll get an answer. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 08:34, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

This Week in Baseball

These seem to be the two best sources I can find about her work on TWIB.[5][6] I'll be expanding this bit later tonight or tomorrow. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 18:24, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Done. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 01:55, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Retirement sources

I'm planning on adding a section about her retirement announcement. I use these as sources. [7][8] [9][10][11] A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Done. Also added a Legacy section using the above sources. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 20:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Here's annother potential source for the retirement or legacy sections.Jennie Finch ready for final tourney

Here are a few more, although I'm not sure they meet Wikipedia's standards for reliability:

• What's next for the Retiring Jennie Finch? Ownership? ESPN Show?
• Jennie Finch's Final Home stand: and her Legacy in Softball
• She's 29, but not too young to retire
• Jennie Finch: Being A Mom “Is Way More Fun Than I Ever Imagined” A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 04:44, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
• Making a pitch for softball A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 15:57, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

2008 Olympics sources

I plan on expanding the section on the 2008 Olympics. I will start listing the sources here. I also plan on including the decision to drop the sport from the 2012 Olympics so some of that is in here as well.[12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28] A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

National FastPitch sources

I plan on expanding this section. I'm adding potential sources to user here:

• Bandits playing for NPF title A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:43, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

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File:JfinchOK.jpg nominated for deletion

An image used in this article, File:JfinchOK.jpg, has been nominated for deletion on Wikimedia Commons. The deletion discussion can be found at Commons:Deletion requests/File:JfinchOK.jpg. Thank you!  Rebbing  04:41, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

1st female manager for men's professional baseball team

I was going to add information about this, but it doesn't seem to fit well into any of the current sections, especially since it comes chronologically after "retirement" : http://espn.go.com/espnw/culture/the-buzz/article/15809795/guest-manager-jennie-finch-leads-bridgeport-bluefish-win?sf27235938=1

If nobody else adds it within a couple days then perhaps I'll just add a sentence in the lead section. Gmporr (talk) 17:54, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Baseball assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Jennie Finch/Comments (baseball), and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

well Jennie Finch is my IDOL! i love her and shes a great insperation for girls playing softball everywhere! im a pitcher myself and shes definetly who i look up to and would like to be like when im older :]]] 67.162.170.129 (talk) 23:45, 24 February 2008 (UTC)mehhh.

Last edited at 23:45, 24 February 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 14:20, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

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Height inconsistency

Jenny's height is accurately listed as 6'1" on the Wikipedia article. However, when Googled, the abbreviated Wikipedia listing inaccurately lists her height as 6'0". Why the discrepancy and how can it be corrected?

Be it known that Jennie stated that her height is 6'1" in a radio interview on 1310 The Ticket in Dallas on September 20, 2018. WindeMH (talk) 22:45, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Jennie Finch/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Larry Hockett (talk · contribs) 02:55, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

I'll be glad to review this one. I hope to get going on it this weekend. At first glance, I notice that there is a failed verification tag in the Legacy section that has been there for about four years, and the second sentence in the early life section needs some grammar attention. Thanks! Larry Hockett (Talk) 02:55, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

I've done an initial readthrough of the article, and I am going to leave section-by-section comments here. I may make some minor edits along the way or at the end. There is a lot of good work here. A lot of the feedback is going to be related to making the sentences a little more clear for the reader who is not a huge softball fan and not as familiar with Finch. Larry Hockett (Talk) 23:22, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Lead

• Per MOS:FIRST, we should not overload the first sentence of the lead. We have American there, so it's probably not necessary to specify the city/state of birth. Along the same line, there are redundant words like former and retired. Try this: "Jennie Finch (born __________) is an American sports commentator and former professional softball pitcher." Then you can go on to say that she played college softball at _______, was a member of Team USA from _____ to _____, played professional softball for the ___________ from ____ to ____ etc. The way it's written now, Arizona Wildcats and Chicago Bandits kind of run together without explanation, like those are two teams at the same level of play.

• On the DOB, per WP:BLPPRIMARY, we should not use primary sources like state records (California Birth Index) to support the information in a BLP.

• Per MOS:LEADCITE, with statements that are unlikely to be challenged, it's okay to just add the citations in the body of the article. Finch's appearances with her different teams are unlikely to be challenged, and removing those citations will help to declutter the lead.

• Add the year to the Time most famous player sentence; it is worth mentioning, but 12 years is a long time in the relatively short history of organized softball.

• Give us a year range for how long she was with ESPN as a commentator, or if it's ongoing. (I don't see anything about this in the body of the entry. It should definitely be covered in the body.)

• The sentence about being ranked is not very clear. Who was doing the ranking? If I understand correctly, these were NCAA rankings of the best overall players in history, and then there were some other lists categorized by certain skills and by athletic conference. It might be better if you just said "In 2017, the NCAA named Finch the second-best player in Division I softball history." Then, in the body of the article, you can specify the categories where she is highly ranked.

Early life and education

• Take out "finch they are all born in California". It's not grammatical and not in the cited source.

• Finch's first name is misspelled (Jenny) in the reference to her website.

Arizona

• Do we know if she got a communications degree? It seems likely if she went for four years.

• A wikilink to explain run-rule games may help the non-fan. Run rule redirects to Mercy rule#Baseball and softball.

• "Though they made the World Series" - why not "The Wildcats made the World Series, and they were eliminated on ______"?

• I'm noticing a lot of overlinking in this section. Links generally appear once (or maybe once in the lead and again on the first mention in the body). Examples: no-hitter, UCLA Bruins, Oregon Ducks.

• First sentence in Sophomore - just use Finch, not Jennie Finch. See WP:LASTNAME.

• Just say "21-game winning streak", as the games in a streak are consecutive by definition. Link winning streak.

• "only losses in back-to-back games": Are you saying she only lost two games that year (and they were back-to-back) or that there was only one time that year that she lost two in a row?

• "she shutout the team..." - as a verb, it's two words. Shut out an opponent, throw a shutout. This error is repeated at least a couple of times.

• There is some odd wording at the beginning of Junior. Ex: hoist an award, "were and still do rank top 10"

• "Along with a no-hitter...": I think this sentence should be broken into 3-4 sentences - one about a no-hitter, one about career highs, one about the scoreless inning streak, and (if you think it's important) one about it being snapped. A career-high streak is still a career high even after being snapped though.

• I'm unclear as to what the NCAA record was. Are you meaning to say that she was the first NCAA pitcher to finish with both a perfect record and a national championship?

• "For a final season" is unnecessary.

• This section would read better overall if you moved the info from the legacy subsection into the relevant seasons. For example, by the time you get to the 15 strikeouts on March 24, it is difficult to determine which season you're talking about. By the end of her time at Arizona, Finch's legacy, while impressive, was very incomplete. She won two Olympic medals and had a pro career after college, so if there is any legacy heading, it should come after that. For collegiate career records, you could just put them at the end of the Senior section.

• "chants of 'Jennie' echoed..." - This part sounds non-neutral, like it's from a PR agency.

• "she remains top-10" - it would be good to use an "as of" date here, as these things can become outdated. Same for all uses of "currently".

• Clean up the last sentence of the Legacy section to reflect what is in the source. The date of her parents' first date can probably be omitted.

I'll come back soon and comment on the remaining sections. Thanks for the work on this article! Larry Hockett (Talk) 23:22, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Olympics sections

• Since 2004 is so short, consider combining 2004 and 2008 into one section, maybe called Olympic Games.

• "making 2008 possibly the last time the sport is played in the Olympics, before it will be reinstated in 2020." - I'm not sure exactly what this means. It sounds like they decided to take softball out for 2012 and 2016 but they decided at the same time to bring it back for 2020. That doesn't sound right to me. Can we update this? IIRC, they did not play softball in 2016.

NPF

• "whiffing" - an appropriate term for a sports blog but not for an encyclopedia.

• On the 15 consecutive wins, are you talking about the streak she had going from 2006 before losing the 2007 opener? Or are you saying she had a winning streak, lost the opener, and then won 15 more in a row?

• If I understand correctly, Finch didn't combine with Cat Osterman for 41 strikeouts because they were on opposing teams. Still worth mentioning, just not in a way that makes it sound like they were working together on the same team.

• There is more overlinking in second paragraph.

• There is another use of "currently" in the last paragraph.

• All three paragraphs end with unsourced statements.

Manager

• Is there another section where we could include this? Maybe combine it with wherever you are going to talk about her ESPN commentator stuff. It was a neat event, but it's one game, so it's probably not worth a whole level 2 heading.

• "The team played and won one game." How about "The Bluefish beat the Southern Maryland Blue Crabs by a score of 3-1." In that first sentence, you could say guest manager for one game instead of guest manager for the day.

Media

• This section needs significant cleanup because it reads like a collection of random TV appearances and minor magazine mentions. Try to group some of the very short paragraphs together if there is a common theme, like all the stuff about being beautiful and well-dressed. I'm not sure the quote about People Magazine helps us. Same thing for the quotes about how hard her pitches are to hit. (In general, we are not interested in what subjects think about their own skills or attributes.)

• We may not need to mention every show she's made an appearance on. Focus on the stuff that has independent coverage, like her time on Dancing with the Stars. If it's one episode of a show and the only coverage is written by Finch, USA Softball, or the show, it's probably not notable enough to mention. Take the stuff with independent coverage and think about how to organize it together.

• The DWTS info reads as outdated ("who will compete" - competed two years ago). DWTS is mentioned in two different sections (avoid doing this), but even still, it doesn't tell us what her results were.

• I don't think the marathon is media-related.

Personal life

• No need for the direct quote about Daigle's proposal.

• "welcomed her daughter" - A ton of WP editors like this phrase, but the tone is not really encyclopedic. Had a daughter, gave birth to a daughter.

• The source says she grew up as a Dodgers fan, but I don't think it comments on whether she is still a fan.

Retirement

• I'm not sure if we need this section; very little of it has to do with her retirement. We should mention her retirement in the NPF section and move all the NPF stuff from here to the NPF section. The last part with quotes from other players/coaches might be good in a Legacy section (but right now our Legacy section is just college stuff). Right now we read about NPF stuff, then four sections later, more NPF - too disjointed.

• The first direct quote from Finch in this section is probably unnecessary and the second quote ("This whole career...") is definitely unnecessary.

References

• The reference titles for periodicals are usually written in sentence case (how you would use caps for a normal sentence, not capitalizing the first letter of each word). Since there is a lot of work to do above, I can take care of this so you can focus on the other stuff.

There is a significant amount of work to do to address all of the feedback above. If it is too much work, we could close this nomination and you could work on it at your leisure then re-nominate it. If you want to try to address all of this, I will take another look at the article once you have a chance to go over all of these bullet points. Thanks for your work! Larry Hockett (Talk) 02:37, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

I am closing this nomination as unsuccessful. Only one edit (which did not address the review feedback) has been made to the entry since the review on 5/23. Though actively editing, the nominator has not returned to acknowledge the GA review feedback and has not responded to a general inquiry on his user talk page regarding his GA nominations. Larry Hockett (Talk) 07:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)