Talk:Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán/Archive 1

Archive 1

Extradition proceedings

"Also, a critical requirement for extradition is that he US must guarantee they will not use the death penalty against Guzmán if found guilty of homicide charges.[237][238]" There's a type on this statement under the Extradition proceedings paragraph. "extradition is that the US must" The word 'the' is missing the 't'.Finitewiki (talk) 00:06, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Mode of Operation

This section seems like it was written by a 10 year old. "Corpus Christi streets LFC1" is a poorly written segment, that hardly makes sense. Who the hell writes this crap? 58.160.74.151 (talk) 05:57, 19 December 2007 (UTC) Chapo Guzman Is in Italy Rome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.172.103.3 (talk) 19:41, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Insufficient facts?

I personally find this article of Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman very specifically detailed, but the matter of fact is that there's insufficient amount of links, and/or sites that can determine these 'facts'.--Andres Flores 00:03, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Height Discrepancy

Not a big deal, just something I noticed while trying to change 'inches' to 'inch' in the intro paragraph - he is listed at 5'6" in that paragraph, but the infobox has him listed at 5'8". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.194.191 (talk) 01:50, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Good catch! His is listed as 5'6" in the official DEA website. Here it is: http://www.justice.gov/dea/fugitives/sandiego/guzman-loera.html I'll leave you the honor to edit it yourself. Thanks. ComputerJA (talk) 18:12, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

He's 5'4" according to his phony California drivers license http://www.hispanicallyspeakingnews.com/uploads/images/amigo-o-enemigo/ChapolicenseCA.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.38.155.177 (talk) 17:42, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

• What? haha. This guy keeps getting shorter... Thanks for the pointing this out. Maybe this can be added as a footnote. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 17:47, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Well average height in Mexico is 5'7" I believe, so you have to be well below that to be called "Shorty" lol — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.38.155.177 (talk) 18:03, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

• Very true, haha. Isn't the height for people in Sinaloa a bit above the average? I think I read that somewhere but I don't remember where or if it's even true. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 18:07, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
• Yes I believe the northern Mexican states are taller than their southern counterparts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.38.155.177 (talk) 18:23, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

More sources

• Stephey, M.J. "Joaquin Guzman Loera: Billionaire Drug Lord." TIME. Friday March 13, 2009.

WhisperToMe (talk) 16:36, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

The 'almost' capture of El Chapo.

Turns out that El Chapo was almost captured about a month ago at Los Cabos. When the police found out that he was in one of his mansions, Guzmán had already left. Everyone in the mansion where El Chapo was were arrested. But I found really weird (and hilarious) is that El Chapo flew all the way to Baja California Sur to have sex with a prostitute. Once he got there, the prostitute said she was in "her period," and El Chapo left her for later. If it weren't for that, Joaquín Guzmán Loera, Mexico's most wanted drug lord, would have been caught and arrested in the act. Lucky eh?

Here's the alleged story at Blog del Narco: [3] ComputerJA (talk) 17:25, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Alfredo Guzman Salazar

Apparently, he wasn't the guy. I'll wait for more media outlets to confirm this so I can make the move. [4] ComputerJA (talk) 00:34, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Public enemy no. 1

Declared the new "Public enemy no. 1" by the Chicago Crime Commission: [5] -- AnonMoos (talk) 20:13, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Arrest in Feb 2014

Two sections were added on Feb 22, 2014 - one entitled "Captured" located above the "Family" section, and another entitled "Arrest" located just beneath the "Family" section. Both have similar information, and different refs. I've taken the liberty of consolidating these two sections into one: entitled "Arrest in 2014", located above the "Family" section. I've also edited the content about the arrest, fixed the ref tags, and added more refs. HiTrish (talk) 17:12, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Structure

I apologize if some information is repeated twice but worded differently in the article. I am currently working to improve the page and make it flow chronologically. Thank you. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 09:52, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

It is to be expected when so many people contribute at once. In a couple days it will be easier for you to review the entire page. I suggest you post the template {{inuse}} at the top of the page while you work on it. It will avoid simultaneous edit conflicts with other editors. You are doing great, as usual. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 14:44, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Pronunciation

As indicated in the article, the correct pronunciation is "el ˈtʃapo" (or "el ch-ah-po"). It's embarrassing that even mainstream American news anchors have been mispronouncing it "el chap-o". (Score one for Wikipedia. :) ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.52.192.26 (talk) 23:08, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

El Chapo's private Navy?

..."Guzmán ordered his men to traffic most of the drugs via land, along with a few aircraft carriers..." I think you meant via plane, but what do I know?

While we're at it, ..."Calle Treinta kidnapped six of Guzmán’s men in Tijuana, tortured them to attain information, and then shot them execution-style in the back of their head..."

Either they shared one collective head (unlikely), or the sentence should read: "shot them in the backs of their heads" or "shot them in the back of the head". 67.176.178.10 (talk) 17:24, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

• Thank you. I believe I have addressed your concerns. Let me know if you find other mistakes. Cheers, ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 17:44, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

I am sure he did not operate "a few aircraft carriers". Maybe cargo aircraft. I left it at aircraft. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 20:25, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

My mistake. I confused aircraft carrier with aircraft, in an attempt to not have close-paraphrasing problems. This is what the source says: "Like the other capos, he was mainly utilizing land routes to get his drugs across the border, coupled with some light plane flights." Thanks. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 20:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Links

]>> Business as usual for Mexico's drug trade>> Mexico fails to stop protest for drug lord (Lihaas (talk) 16:53, 8 March 2014 (UTC)).

Reward for his arrest.

Is there a reward for his arrest?Bobbyshabangu _talk 23:59, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is up-to-date: http://www.state.gov/j/inl/narc/rewards/115366.htm —  WikiWinters ☯ 韦安智   00:17, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

• @User:Bobbyshabangu and User:WikiWinters: That source was up-to-date until he was arrested in February 2014. There have not been any official changes on the bounty now that he's on the run again, so I assume that the amount is the same right now. If there is a change in the bounty, I am sure we will find out. A lot of the DEA, FBI, and U.S. Dept. of State pages are not updated until criminals are arrested and convicted. That was never the case with Guzmán. In addition, the Chicago Crime Commission reinstated the "Public Enemy No. 1" title again after he escaped. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 13:29, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Manhunt?

Isn't it Wikipedia policy to avoid sexist language? Perhaps "personhunt" would be more gender-neutral. Kerry (talk) 01:10, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

1: That language is in no way sexist. Why do you consider it sexist? 2: He is a man, after all. 3: Where in the dictionary is the word "personhunt"?

All these reasons aside, this is a rather trivial issue. Dustin (talk) 01:41, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

1. "That language is in no way sexist. Why do you consider it sexist?" Your bald denial is not a rationale, it's just a difference of opinion.

2. "Where in the dictionary is the word "personhunt"?" There are lots of examples of new words that were introduced for the express purpose of gender neutrality; spokesperson, chairperson, etc. Your objection that the word "personhunt" isn't currently in the dictionary is feeble. Kerry (talk) 16:17, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

RS call it a manhunt, thus wiki calls it a manhunt. We don't determine what is true/moral/ethical/etc. We determine what is verifiable based on RS. This is a larger discussion than one thread, I'd recommend you take your recommendations on word usage to the Village Pump or other applicable Wiki forum.Jbower47 (talk) 19:49, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 July 2015

"El Chapo Guzmán" ("The Shorty Guzmán", pronounced: [el ˈtʃapo ɡuzˈman]) for his 1.68 m (5 ft 6 in) stature

Please note that your explanation for the alias is in my opinion incorrect:

A PERSON OF low stature in Spanish is not CHAPO it is CHATO. Chapo in Spanish is related to CHAPAR which means ENCERRAR, nothing to do with stature. I would suggest you review well your information as it is incorrect.

WORD REFERENCE:

chapo Definición | Sinónimos | Conjugator | in context | images

Del verbo chapar: (conjugar) chapo es: 1ª persona singular (yo) presente indicativo chapó es: 3ª persona singular (él/ella/usted) pretérito indicativo WordReference Collins WordReference English-Spanish Dictionary © 2015: Principal Translations chapar⇒ vtr (revestir, cubrir) overlay, veneer vtr

	 	tile vtr
	 (metal)	plate vtr
	Chaparon el baño pequeño con azulejos nuevos y cambiaron la ducha.

chapar vtr coloquial (establecimiento: cerrar) close, shut vtr

	Vámonos que van a chapar.
	Let's go; they're closing.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.65.66.106 (talk) 02:42, 14 July 2015 (UTC)≈

In Mexico 'chapo' does mean short. A lot of regional slang like this does not appear in dictionaries.

Secondly, the definition you have is only verbs, but not adjectives or nouns. You would not say "El + a conjugated verb" in Spanish. By this logic, "El Chapo" would mean "The I close," which wouldn't make sense in Spanish or English.98.169.179.227 (talk) 03:10, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Taken from the same source you used, it's derived from the term chaparro ("short"):

Inflexiones de 'chaparro' (n): f: chaparra, mpl: chaparros, fpl: chaparras

Inflexiones de 'chaparro' (adj): f: chaparra, mpl: chaparros, fpl: chaparras

WordReference

Collins

WordReference English-Spanish Dictionary © 2015:

Principal Translations

chaparro nm ES (Quercus coccifera) shrub oak, dwarf oak n

(southern Europe) kermes oak n

El chaparro es un arbusto que podría convertirse en árbol.

chaparro adj (de baja estatura) short adj

squat adj

Sancho Panza era un tipo chaparro.

Additional Translations

chaparro nm AmL (Curatella americana) sandpaper tree, chaparro tree n

Curatella americana n

Preparó un remedio con hojas de chaparro.

98.169.179.227 (talk) 03:14, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, indeed Chapo means short in México. You only have to check DRAE (Diccionario de la Real Academia de la Lengua), which is THE authoritative dictionary in Spanish:

chapo, pa.

1. m. y f. coloq. Méx. Persona de baja estatura. (that is, masculine and feminine, colloquial, México. Short person)

http://buscon.rae.es/drae/srv/search?id=dajMrA7vEDXX2gArFXXv

"Chato" does not mean "short". "Chato" means "flat". When applied to a person it means "snub nose".

Also, "chapar" indeed is a verb but it does not mean "encerrar" ("enclose") but "overlay" or "veneer". It comes from "chapa" ("plate").

"Chaparro", related to "chapo", is a tree, usually short (more like a bush) and, also, a short person.

"Chaparral" (which entered English vocabulary) is a forest made of this trees or of any kind of twiggy, short trees, usually in the desert or dry lands, where they grow.

--Ciroa (talk) 21:06, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

File:Joaquín Guzmán Loera mugshot.JPG listed for deletion

File:Joaquín Guzmán Loera mugshot.JPG has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Calliopejen1 (talk) 05:21, 14 July 2015 (UTC) Calliopejen1 (talk) 05:21, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Requested move July 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Speedily as a reversal of previously undiscussed move. Please open a new request for a move to a title including the nickname "El Chapo", as this runs into interpretations of the WP:NICKNAME guideline.(non-admin closure) Wbm1058 (talk) 14:19, 19 July 2015 (UTC) Regarding the reason for including his second last name, see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people) § Multiple and changed surnames – patronymics and matronymics. There is a hatnote explaining that. Wbm1058 (talk) 15:14, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

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Joaquín Guzmán Loera → Joaquín Guzmán – per WP:COMMONNAMES in WP:RELIABLESOURCES as a perusal of these Google News articles shows. The article was moved from Joaquín Guzmán to its current title in 2009 without formal discussion. —  AjaxSmack  01:33, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

• Support and quickly. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:54, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
• Support mainly based on news searches:

"Joaquín Guzmán" OR "Joaquin Guzmán" OR "Joaquín Guzman" OR "Joaquin Guzman" getting "About 965,000 (raw) results" and with

"Joaquín Guzmán Loera" OR "Joaquin Guzmán Loera" OR "Joaquín Guzman Loera" OR "Joaquin Guzman Loera" getting "About 96,900 (raw) results"

However it can also be noted that a general websearch on his name indicates the longer name in use by prestigious organisations and that his twitter account presents "Joaquín Guzmán Loera" as Official name. GregKaye 06:39, 16 July 2015 (UTC) edited GregKaye 03:48, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

• @Greg: That Twitter page is not his. It has been posting since he was in prison and before that. It's just someone trying to be funny. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 03:38, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Opps , ty GregKaye 03:48, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

• Support--JumpLike23 (talk) 08:52, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

• Support, I don't even know why his second last name is used. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 21:49, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

• Comment: I know that consensus was reached, but has anyone considered the name Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán as the title? All of the Mexican sources I have read have that in their titles and refer to him by his alias. More people refer to him as "El Chapo" than as Joaquín Guzmán. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 03:38, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
  • "El Chapo" does appear to be not all too uncommon (and that's what I've always called him). This is worth further investigation... Dustin (talk) 03:48, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

• Comment. It is more common than Joaquín Guzmán. I got way more results on Google by putting "El Chapo" and Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 14:31, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

• I agree with your conclusion and am OK with a move to a title including "El Chapo". I didn't mention those options in the nomination due to the WP:NICKNAME guideline ("avoid...adding a nickname...in quotes between first and last name.") —  AjaxSmack  20:08, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

• Thank you for bringing that to my attention. The thing is that Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán is very common, unlike William "Bill" Clinton, for example. I think we can make an exception for this guy. What should be our next plan of action from here? ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 20:20, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

• If you want to formally propose this alternative, you can just mention it at the bottom of this discussion and notify all previous participants or close this discussion and open a new one and also notify all previous participants. —  AjaxSmack  02:42, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

• Comment – I agree with the proposal, but I disagree with it being carried out after only letting one day of discussion occur. This is the first time I've even gotten a chance to take a look at this requested move. Dustin (talk) 03:46, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
  • I agree with waiting for the discussion to unfold. —  AjaxSmack  20:08, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
• Comment. The page has already been moved to Joaquín Guzmán. Shouldn't this RM's intro be adjusted to the new proposal? © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 11:24, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Irving Andre

In the family section I found this statement (bold mine): "Guzmán's sons would follow him into the drug business. Only one of his children, Irving Andre, is not involved." Is Irving one of his sons, or it is sneaky vandalism as nothing else about him is mentioned. Also, the infobox lists "Shamar McCullough" as another son. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 11:19, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Photo Needed

Article needs a photo of El Chapo. I can't believe that there's no public domain images. Not even a mugshot photo? 97.126.235.119 (talk) 00:28, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Found one on commons. 97.126.235.119 (talk) 00:46, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Date of October raid

BatteryIncluded, thank you for all your conscientious and detailed work. I'm still puzzling through what various unnamed gov't officials are willing to say about how the failed October raid precisely related to Guzmán exposing himself through his Hollywood contacts (it looks like they were closely monitoring Guzmán's own lawyers, who were del Castillo's intermediaries; at least one lawyer was present for the Penn interview). But the hiccup here is that they haven't yet said, to my knowledge, when exactly the failed raid took place, although it was first reported in some detail, with Guzmán said to be injured, on Oct 17th. NBC News had reported on Oct 14 that a raid had taken place the week before, but no details in that article. I'm going to remove the "15 days" (after Oct 2) phrase until we get better reporting. Thanks again — Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 19:00, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Hello and thank you for the note. The reference in question in CNN: [6]: Guzman timeline:

• 2 October 2015: Interviewed by US actor Sean Penn in Durango state jungle hideout and then by phone and video
• 17 October: Mexican officials announce narrow escape as police try to recapture him in neighbouring Sinaloa state

That makes 15 days in between the interview and the raid. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk)

No no, BBC source says 17 October is when they announced the raid, but per NBC News reporting on 14 Oct (link), the raid had taken place the week before the 14th. Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 19:25, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

I see the difference between "reported on" and "raided on". Thank you. BatteryIncluded (talk) 19:31, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

New Photos

There are more recent photos, specifically mugshots and arrest photos, that we could try to get by with under fair use. These would give readers a better image of El Chapo.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/13/world/mexico-el-chapo-escape/ | 2015 less than a fourth of the way down, direct link

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/01/08/joaquin-el-chapo-guzman-arrested-in-mexico-wolf-live-wolf.cnn | 2016 front and center video, but thumbnail[video still, portrays El Chapo] can be found here http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150714121221-el-chapo-mug-shot-t1-exlarge-169.png

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/08/opinions/winslow-el-chapo-capture/ | 2016 front and center, high res. I did not check the resolutions, so this (http://image.vanguardia.com.mx/sites/default/files/field/image/el_chapo001.jpg) may be higher res.

--Mr. Man (talk) 19:36, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Commons Wikimedia does not accept mug-shots as fair use, even if produced by the police. BatteryIncluded (talk) 19:58, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 January 2016

Father of Mayra Mercedes Ramirez and Carolina Marlen Ramirez

2602:306:3B93:4EE0:C80A:D568:A8A:9EB6 (talk) 01:58, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

• Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --Majora (talk) 02:34, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Guzman Appeal of Extradition

MEXICO CITY (AP) — Mexican drug lord Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman's fight to stave off extradition to the United States has led to a schism between his own lawyers. After two of Guzman's attorneys filed an appeal against the extradition request, a third lawyer is quickly disavowing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.70.213.246 (talk) 20:42, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman's lawyers announced Friday that they presented an appeal to the drug lord's extradition to the United States on the grounds that it is unconstitutional. Attorneys Juan Pablo Badillo Soto and Jose Luis Gonzalez said in a press conference that the appeal was presented on Thursday before a federal court against the authorization granted on May 6 by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to hand over El Chapo to U.S. authorities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.70.213.246 (talk) 20:44, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Law in Mexico is always behind closed doors, where backroom dealings (corruption) are part of the culture. I am against recording play-by-play developments in this article. Specially when El Chapo says many of those lawyers are not even working for him but for their own fame. Lets limit data to the outcome. Thanks, BatteryIncluded (talk) 23:32, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

References

Article is Severely Outdated and missing Key Information

The article says that he is currently in a prison near Texas awaiting extradition. This ABC article indicates otherwise http://abcnews.com.co/drug-kingpin-el-chapo-escapes-mexican-prison-once-again/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.183.66.174 (talk) 03:52, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 July 2016

Please change the section that says he is currently awaiting extradition to state that he is once again on the run, based on this very recent ABC article.

http://abcnews.com.co/drug-kingpin-el-chapo-escapes-mexican-prison-once-again/

Not done: It appears the news story was wrong: [7] Stickee (talk) 04:10, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Requested move: Using "El Chapo"

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) SkyWarrior 19:52, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

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Joaquín Guzmán → Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán – I want to propose a new title for this article. Joaquín Guzmán is best known as Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán. This has way more results in Google than the title we are currently using. In fact, all the sources that say "Joaquin Guzman" mention "El Chapo" too. This means that WP:COMMONNAMES and WP:RELIABLESOURCES apply. If you look into WP:NICKNAME, you'll find WP:TITLESPECIALCHARACTERS, which would allow such a move (for example: "Weird Al" Yankovic and "A" Is for Alibi). ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 15:24, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

• This move probably would improve recognizability. But seems to be the wrong template? In ictu oculi (talk) 15:33, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

• Wrong template for requesting a move? Probably... ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 15:35, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

In ictu oculi: Template has been fixed. If you'd like to make a decision, let us know. Cheers! ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 16:03, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

I fixed it. Use {{subst:Requested move}} next time. Follow the instructions at WP:RM. Thanks, wbm1058 (talk) 15:49, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

• Support for reasons stated. --JumpLike23 (talk) 06:32, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
• Support per nomination. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 01:00, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
• Support per nomination.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 13:49, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

WP:COMMONNAME-driven move consideration

I stumbled upon this article just know, and wanted to ask if this article should be moved to El Chapo, since it is by far the most common name for the topic. The current solution is likely not the best, as it mixes real name with nickname. The guideline WP:COMMONNAME prefers the usage of a topic's most common referenment, as lined out above, but since this is not my WikiProject, I'm not sure what's the general public preference. (As of March 2017, "El Chapo" redirects to the article related to this talk page). Lordtobi (✉) 23:22, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

• @Lordtobi: – Hi, that's a great question. Thank you for consulting the talkpage. I'm not sure if you saw the title move discussion above, but exceptions can be made through WP:TITLESPECIALCHARACTERS if the person's name or "title" use quotation marks (ex: "Weird Al" Yankovic and "A" Is for Alibi). There are more Google results for "El Chapo" than Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán. From what I've noticed, that is because the newspaper headlines use "El Chapo" because its shorter, and then in the article they refer to his full title: Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán. I'm not entirely sure if the search includes other "Chapo" uses, however. Let me know what you think. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 13:02, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

  Hi, yes I am aware of the above discussion, which seemed a logical approach towards COMMONNAME, as the title Joaquín Guzmán was for one ambigous with the former El Salvadoran president, but extremely unrecognizable (In case you wish for my POV, I had never heard his real name before coming across this page, only "El Chapo" on the news and around the web). Nothing against WP:TITLESPECIALCHARACTERS, where "A" Is for Alibi is the correctly scanned book title, but the difference between El Chapo and Weird Al Yankovic is that Yankovic's nickname replaces his first name (and the combination makes his stage name), Guzmán is entirely known as "El Chapo" and not "El Chapo Guzmán" or similar (despite the article having stated that, it was not in the source provided, and not a common term either, wherefore I changed it). Hence, the current title name is lacking recognizability (as a whole, not per-part), wherefore I think that moving the page to El Chapo would be the best idea. Lordtobi (✉) 14:18, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

@Lordtobi: Makes sense. Would you mind opening another article title move discussion/vote? That way other editors can give their input too. Feel free to ping previous voters. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 14:42, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

 Done, see below. Lordtobi (✉) 15:07, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 23 March 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved consensus is that the proposed move should not be implemented. There is not a consensus against potential moves to other titles, but no rough consensus formed for them here either. The topic has been discussed in-depth in this RM, and I do not believe relisting would neccesarily lead to a consensus for an alternative proposal. Because of all of these factors, I am closing this RM with a consensus against moving to El Chapo. (non-admin closure) TonyBallioni (talk) 05:36, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

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Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán → El Chapo – WP:COMMONNAME, as the nickname appears most commonly in reliable sources. Pinging original contiributors: @ComputerJA, AjaxSmack, In ictu oculi, GregKaye, Jumplike23, Tbhotch, Master of Time, Wbm1058, Roman Spinner, and Maunus: (in case of confusion, Master of Time was formerly Dustin V. S.). Please also see my previous discussion start. Lordtobi (✉) 15:07, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose not the only and not sure agree with it being primary redirect either, would be better to redirect to El Chapo (disambiguation) In ictu oculi (talk) 15:13, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose many other notable "El Chapo"s - I particularly am fond of El Chapo de Sinaloa. It is fine where it is. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 15:32, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
• I see that the Spanish Wikipedia (his native language) titles this Joaquín Guzmán Loera and shows his nickname as "el Chapo Guzmán". Chapo is a disambiguation page in Spanish, and Google translate tells me that Chapo is "French for 'hat'... a generic expression used as appreciation or respect in France and elsewhere in Europe, it means to take off your hat to honor someone". wikt:chapo says it's first-person singular (yo) present indicative form of chapar, which means to veneer or to plate (as with metal). So where does "shorty" come from? It strikes me that there is some "WP:recentism" here, and the tabloid press may favor more sensational nicknames. We should take a longer-term view to consider whether "el Chapo" will still universally mean this guy 100 years from now. With that in mind, consider the case of Al Capone. Note that the "other names" listed in the infobox (Scarface, Big Al, Big Boy, Public Enemy No. 1) are all disambiguation pages, while Scarface Capone and Scarface (American gangster) redirect to "Primary Topic No. 1". I'm content with the status quo. – wbm1058 (talk) 16:02, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

In Mexican Spanish "Chapo" means "shorty" nothing to do with French Chapeaux. And no, we should take the view from the sources, not from the WP:CRYSTALBALL. Spanish wiki has its own naming policy and we have ours.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 16:17, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

My point was that the "shorty" meaning of "Chapo" is missing from Wiktionary. That should be fixed. Shorty is a disambiguation, and there are many people with Shorty (nickname).

Regarding "not a crystal ball", see Future years- how far is too far? Observe the predicted events of 2050. ha! wbm1058 (talk) 16:55, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

@Wbm1058: - Chapo means shorty and stocky in Sinaloan slang. It is not a "recent" nickname. Here is a source from 2001 (the year he escaped from prison the first time), and he is referred to as Chapo. Let me know if you have any questions. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 17:53, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

My point with "recentism" isn't the length of time that Guzmán has had the "El Chapo" nickname, but rather, I suppose, that he was not the first person to have this nickname, and setting crystal balls aside, is unlikely to be the last. Unless his association with the nickname makes it so toxic that nobody wants to be known by this name in the future. wbm1058 (talk) 18:21, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

In addition, I don't think we should use Spanish Wikipedia as a reference. Most of the Mexican Drug War articles are filled with original research and are unsourced. I retired from editing there because I could not keep up with editors adding unsourced material. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 17:54, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Unsourced material is of course a problem in any language Wikipedia, including English. I wasn't considering the detailed content of the Spanish-language articles, just how the same topics are titled. Useful when taking a worldwide view. wbm1058 (talk) 18:21, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

• It does make sense to keep the nickname in the title, as the primary topic for Joaquín Guzmán in Spanish is a Spanish radio announcer. I guess that's why they add "Loera"... for disambiguation. wbm1058 (talk) 17:06, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
  • I don't think we need to disambiguate against topics that aren't on the English Wikipedia. Joaquín Guzmán seems to be available for this topic. It already redirects here, and a month ago, it was the title of this article. —BarrelProof (talk) 03:00, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
• If "El Chapo" is the more common name vs. Joaquín, a proposal to move this to El Chapo Guzmán might get more traction. – wbm1058 (talk) 17:23, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

• Or "El Chapo" Guzmán? That would follow the guidance of WP:NICKNAME, which says to "avoid ... adding a nickname ... in quotes between first and last name." We seem to especially not do that for criminals (although there are a couple of cases: See Talk:Raymond "Shrimp Boy" Chow and Talk:Steve "Clem" Grogan). —BarrelProof (talk) 03:00, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Cyrus the Penner (talk) 10:34, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose – per above. There are various other Chapo's, including Mexican soccer player Luis Montes (popularly known as El Chapo), El Chapo Isidro, El Chapo Trini, among others. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 14:01, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Birth date and age....

What exactly is "encyclopedic" about an article that lists two dates of birth and two resulting ages while citing a single source? The source referenced is also YouTube video on the TIME Magazine channel with a single individual's name listed as the producer of the video. This kind of crap being given a complete pass by hyperactive and delete-happy dictator/editors while other edits and articles are lit up immediately for having no citations or references is one of the reason Wikipedia is not considered a reliable source itself. Two separate dates and ages cited and they're both apparently meeting the "verifiable" standard? Hilarious. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.234.100.60 (talk) 10:31, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

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Height

His height is not 168 cm, but 163, it can be seen in the photo that he is no more than 166, besides, he is photographed with shoes in the police, and she adds at least 3 cm. Please correct it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.24.126.123 (talk) 10:21, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Factual error in section "Extradition sought"

The article reads: "Mexico formally launched a renewed process of extradition to the United States two days after Guzmán was recaptured from his third escape from custody.[226][237][238]" This is wrong. He was captured from his second(!) escape. The whole article explains how he escaped two times and then suddenly it says something about a "third escape". The sources given even contradict that statement; the very first sentence of the CNN source ends with "who has twice escaped prison in Mexico.". This should be corrected.

You are correct; he escaped twice before extradition.  Done. -BatteryIncluded (talk) 13:03, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Plagiarism from Wikipedia

This book, published in August 2014, has close-paraphrasing issues with this article. But the updates made here were done BEFORE the book was published. [8] ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:56, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

GA plans

Hi, everyone. I want to promote this article to GA sometime this calendar year, but there is some serious attention that this article needs before we can move towards that. His manhunt sections need to be trimmed down since most of the info is already found at Manhunt of Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán (2001–2014). The intro needs to be cleaned a lot too (less or no citations, and providing a summary per WP:LEAD). I have a sandbox here with the structure I had in mind. I'm thinking we will have to create seperate articles at some point to reduce the size of the article (i.e. Family of Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán, Arrest of Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán (1993); Escape of Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán (2001); Arrest of Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán (2014); Escape of Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán (2015); Arrest of Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán (2016); Criminal charges against Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán; Extradition of Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán, etc). I'm not saying we absolutely need each and every one of these, but it's an idea. There is A LOT of material for each of these topics. Ideally, my plan is to get Manhunt of Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán (2001–2014) and all these promoted to GA at some point too. I have a library card from the University of Texas system so I plan to do offline researching. Please see the Source section of my sandbox with what I have in mind. Thanks! ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 01:38, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Good Article status for an article that lists two dates of birth and two resulting ages in an "Online Encyclopedia" where its always sources, references and citations and "encyclopedic" content or NOTHING? You have to be joking. Especially when the article is a BLP and is going to require extensive editing every time there's some change in his legal status, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.234.100.60 (talk) 10:34, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

• Yeah, I might wait until he is convicted or something. His trial is set for 2018, so it might take a while. As far as the two DOBs, a lot of suspected Mexican drug lords have various "official" DOBs and POBs (see this guy's for example). My guess is because in rural Mexico a lot of people were born in their houses and did not have their birth days officially recorded until much later. They also may have had different DOBs to register as a different person and had have another CURPS (this can help them buy more properties, have different names, get certain benefits from the government, etc.) Like I said, the article needs to be almost entirely re-written, but I think we can make it happen. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 18:14, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 December 2017

Legal proceedings On 20 January 2017, Guzman pled not guilty to a 17-count indictment in the United States District Court in New York.[255] Guzman was charged in six separate U.S. indictments. The charges include money laundering, drug trafficking, kidnapping and murder in Chicago, Miami, New York and other cities.[256] Then-U.S. Attorney General Sally Yates called him the "alleged leader of a multi-billion dollar, multi-national criminal enterprise that funneled drugs onto our streets and violence and misery into our communities".[257] Guzman, during his court appearance in the Eastern District of New York, pled not guilty to all of the charges and waived his right for all of them to be read aloud in court. Guzman, who does not speak English, used a translator at the hearing. He was represented by two federal public defenders at his arraignment hearing.[258][259] Guzmán subsequently replaced his public defenders with Jeffrey Lichtman, Marc Fernich, William Purpura and Eduardo Balarezo.[260][261] Guzmán's attorney, Lichtman, previously helped John Gotti Jr beat murder and conspiracy charges in 2005.[262]

THE LAST LINE IS INCORRECT: It should read: "In September 2017, Guzmán replaced his public defenders with A. Eduardo Balarezo, a prominent criminal defense attorney from Washington, DC. William B. Purpura of Baltimore, MD, later joined Balarezo as co-counsel."

Mr. Guzmán has not hired and/or paid Lichtman or Fernich, and neither of them has entered their appearance in the case. Balarezo and Purpura have entered their appearance and are Guzmán's only attorneys of record. Malaka2012 (talk) 23:18, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 00:00, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 June 2018

please change (450,000 kg) to (500,000 kg) because 500 tons is 500,000 kg and not 450,000 kg Dtalpk (talk) 13:10, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

 Done L293D (☎ • ✎) 13:19, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Long tons, short tons, metric tons. Wikipedia uses the international system, which is metric, so yes, 500 tons = 500,000 kg. Cheers, Rowan Forest (talk) 14:54, 12 June 2018 (UTC)