Talk:Joe West (umpire)/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: TBrandley (talk · contribs) 15:13, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

• Lede doesn't meet WP:LEDE, which needs have a little mention of each section of the actual article's section, please summarize all sections; for example, absolutely no mention of "Major League Baseball" despite the top note --Note: I have done work on the lead and I believe it currently gives an adequate summary of the article's contents. Go Phightins! 18:48, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
• WP:DASH concerns in the infobox with "22 - Joe West". Since it is in a template, I would suggest editing the template to meet the guideline  Done
• "the president of the" remove first "the" for a better prose  Done
• "World Umpires Association" place the shorter name in brackets (), as per WP:ACRO  Done
• "but he was" remove "he" as it is repetitive with the rest of the sentence  Done
• "Cowboy Joe" should not be in bold per MOS:BOLD and WP:ACCESS  Done
• "singer/songwriter" WP:SLASH and MOS:HYPHEN suggest using a hypten instead of a slash  Done
• "He grew up in Greenville" no link, no clarifiation or state it is in, needs to be fixed  Done
• Linking problems, why is "Major League Baseball" not linked at start of umpiring career, but then it is later in section. Lots of further inconsistency that needs fixing, please check the whole article  Done
• Also, after first mention, refer to names by shorter version (eg: MLB), not full name version  Done
• Unlink "2012" per WP:OVERLINK  Done
• Avoid short one-line and sentence paragraphs  Done
• "in the 1988 comedy" clarify please, that it is a film or television show, something like that  Done
• Add "United States portal"  Done
• As the portals go into references, move down below external links, and therefore use {{portal bar}}  Done
• Numerous reference problems; WP:DASH concerns; missing parameters like accessdate on lots, as well as authors if they are included in source, please check for all parameters, including dates; link "MLB.com" in reference per WP:REPEATLINK, and check for consistency; check for consistency with publisher and works name; a big concern, IMDb is not a reliable source, and therefore needs to be replaced; inconsistency with date formats throughout the article; check for dead links, there are some at Checklinks, see article; I have some scripts you may use to help with some of these, though not all  Done
• Remove "MajorLeagueUmpires.com" link per WP:ELNO (Please note that the inclusion of these two links is SOP for umpire pages) AutomaticStrikeout (Evidence) 23:18, 27 November 2012 (UTC) - but  Done
• Same goes for the "Retrosheet" link (Please note that the inclusion of these two links is SOP for umpire pages) AutomaticStrikeout (Evidence) 23:18, 27 November 2012 (UTC) - but  Done
• Categories should be sorted in alphabetical order in this case  Done

As of right now, this article fails short of the good article criteria. However, I'm sure you'll be able to fix my above concerns, which is generally consistently, reference errors, missing parameters and such, reliable sources in question, dead links, and many WP:REPEATLINK concerns. In any case, you have seven days to fix concerns per the WP:RGA guideline, I'll take another look after this happens. Thus, I am placing the article on hold. TBrandley 03:00, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

When are all of these concerns going to be addressed? If they aren't, I'll have to fail this article. TBrandley 17:00, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

I believe that more work has been done, it just hasn't been checked off here. Lemme ask Eric and Phightins! AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 18:31, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

A couple of points to raise: The Retrosheet and MLB.com bio links are standard practice on umpire pages and I'm not sure how they violate the policy mentioned. Also, I don't believe there is an overlinking problem as the links are not going to the article about the year 2012, but to articles about the playoff series held that year. I may not be able to further help out here for today, as I have some other things to do in RL first. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 19:08, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

• So I've just taken a quick glance and I see a few issues. First, Cowboy Joe is mentioned in the lead, but the article doesn't give anything about when/how he got the nickname. I don't think it's a big enough issue to fail per the comprehensive requirement for a GA, but it does need a source and does need to be in the lead and the body. It should also appear as an also known as rather than halfway into the lead. There are a number of other sourcing issues in the Outside of Baseball section which is mostly unsourced. I'll try to correct some of these issues when I get a chance. Ryan Vesey 00:47, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Great points, Ryan. I've incorporated your feedback into the article. I trimmed down the list of people West has performed with (no disrespect to Skunk Baxter or Les Dudek) and removed a couple of other items that were questionably notable. I think that helped the flow of the Outside of Baseball section in particular. Everything should be sourced now, but I may come back and take another peek in a bit. Thanks a lot! EricEnfermero ^Howdy! 18:42, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

• "Cowboy Joe", quotation marks should not be in bold  Done
• "who works for", I'm not really sure "works" is the best word to use, how about "plays for", or something

He doesn't play, he umpires and saying "who umpires for" might be redundant. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 01:57, 19 December 2012 (UTC)  Done (Left out the verb altogether. EricEnfermero ^Howdy! 03:27, 19 December 2012 (UTC))

• "West entered the National League (NL) as an umpire in 1976; he" would suggest merging and changing the semi-colon into an "and" or something  Done
• In the lead, I would merge two sentence short paragraphs into larger ones, or maybe bring some more information down from the first paragraph into the second one  Done (I think it now works anyway EricEnfermero ^Howdy! 03:27, 19 December 2012 (UTC))
• "He has worked five", again, not sure about "worked"  Done
• "West was born in Asheville, North Carolina in 1952." after the lead, upon first mention the person should be referred to by first name, and then last name again from then on, per WP:MOS  Done
• Why is "East Carolina University" abbreviated in the early life section, but not the lead?  Done
• Why does it state "Elon University" in the lede, and "Elon College" in the early life section, would change to "college" in lead, as that is what it was then, keep it the same in the sections  Done
• "He was MVP" check your style, try "He was named Most Valuable Player (MVB)"  Done
• "After arbitration and appeals, he was rehired by the MLB in 2002." how can he be rehired? It doesn't mention that he was hired at all past the lede, and it needs to per WP:LEDE, so you may be missing something  Done (clarified EricEnfermero ^Howdy! 03:27, 19 December 2012 (UTC))
• "his 4000th game" do not use "th" per WP:MOS, not Wikipedia-style
• "2%" write out fully as "2 percent"; check whole article for this concern  Done
• "The Hardball Times" italics?  Done
• "In a 2011 players poll, Joe West was", change to just "West" – see WP:MOS  Done
• "$500" clarify which dollar you are referring to, I assume it is the US dollar -- Fixed Go Phightins! 02:06, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
• "On his check" how about "upon"

Frankly, I think "On his check" sounds better. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 01:57, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

• Don't "shout" in reference titles
• Ref. 31 is missing publication date -- Fixed Go Phightins! 02:06, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

TBrandley 01:37, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

• Comment: Between three of us, I think we've addressed almost all of the issues. Could you clarify your concerns about the use of "th" and the percent signs? The way I read the MOS, four thousandth could be expressed as either a word or a number since it is a two-word expression. I may be misunderstanding what you meant there though. On the percent issue, we're left with a section that has several single-digit numbers expressed as numerals ("6 percent" instead of "6%" or "six percent") and I wasn't sure if that was your intent. I just get some mixed messages after reading different sections of the MOS. I appreciate your work, Tate. EricEnfermero ^Howdy! 03:22, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
  • No worries, it's the holidays now! I just have one final comment: the fact that he plays for MLB should be noted at least once after the lead, because right now it jumps right to: "In 1999, West was among 22 MLB", around there. Cheers, TBrandley 18:27, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
    • There is one problem with that, he doesn't play, he umpires. Does that make any difference or do you still want something to be added? AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 19:14, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
      • I have passed this article. TBrandley 20:12, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.