Talk:Josette Simon

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Josette Simon/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 17:01, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:01, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

The image is appropriately tagged. Twitter is used as a source, but from an official channel self-reporting an uncontroversial fact. Other sources are reliable. Earwig flags nothing but the quotes.

• Do we not even have an approximate year of birth? E.g. if she auditioned for Joseph at age 14 that might give us a range of a year or so.
  • Soem time back, I removed an uncited date in 1960 that had been added without a source. I later added "circa 1960" (with a source), which was removed by an IP editor. Gale's Contemporary theatre, film and television Volume 75(2007) has 1965, which must be wrong based on Simon's career details. I've restored "circa 1960" and included the supporting text in the citation. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:37, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

    OK -- I think you might make it "circa 1959, since if she's 16 on 6 February 1976 it's much more likely to be 1959 than 1960, but I'll strike this since it's not wrong. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:23, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

• "Bob Peck who played the lead": not a sentence, but is it relevant anyway?
  • It was meant to be "Bob Peck played the lead" but as he has no other mention in the article, I've removed this. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:37, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
• "and starring as Dorcas Ableman in Golden Girls as Dorcas Ableman, written by Louise Page." Aside from the repetition, is it relevant who wrote this?
  • Removed repetition. As Page has no other mention in the article, I've removed the mention. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:37, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:39, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Many thank, Mike Christie. Let me know if anything else is required. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:37, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Fixes look good; one suggestion above. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:23, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Spotchecks:

• FN 34 cites 'In 2017, Simon took the role of Cleopatra in Antony and Cleopatra for the RSC. Michael Billington wrote for The Guardian that "Simon seems born to play Cleopatra and she gives us a hypnotically mercurial figure whose eroticism is expressed through a permanent restlessness", although he felt that Simon employed too many voices in the role.' Verified.
• FN 9 & 10 cite "Simon won the part of Dayna Mellanby in the BBC 1 television sci-fi series Blake's 7 after being talent-spotted while still at the Central School of Speech and Drama." I only have access to one of these sources, but it verifies almost all of this, so I'm going to say that's verified.

Spotcheck is good; passing. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:23, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by CSJJ104 (talk) 17:29, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that a reviewer called Josette Simon the sexiest Titania of recent years? Source: Taylor, Paul (29 March 1999). "Theatre: Laugh if you believe in fairies – A Midsummer Night's Dream RSC Stratford". The Independent
  • ALT1: ... that a reviewer called Josette Simon the "sexiest, most commanding" Titania of recent years? Source: same
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Platigliole Glacier
  • Comment: Open to other hooks (and not sure if "recent years" should be changed since it is referring to 1999); pinging BennyOnTheLoose just so they know I nominated this.

Improved to Good Article status by BennyOnTheLoose (talk). Nominated by LordPeterII (talk) at 18:05, 12 September 2022 (UTC).

Interesting life, GA on plenty of sources, offline sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. - Sorry, I dislike the original hook enough to strike it. Here we have a woman with unique accomplishments - first black at the RSC in leading roles - and all we want to say is "sexiest", with "recent years" dating back to the last century? The other isn't much better. Please try harder to please women ;) - and please say something that can't be said about another. - In the article, I find the Monroe image a bit misleading. I think the lead should say "black" or whatever is acceptable much sooner than a hint in a bracket about "colour-blind". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:31, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Fair enough. I was in a bit of a Shakespeare mood recently, and so this was the first thing I noticed for a hook. I kinda already realized it wasn't too great after I nominated, and will take the criticism. A little short on time for Wiki-work atm, but will think about it and ping you when I have a better hook. –LordPeterII (talk) 16:29, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: I've amended the lede as per your suggestion, and I agree that the first-black-at-RSC thing is a much better hook. How about

• ALT2: ... that Josette Simon was the first black woman to appear in a Royal Shakespeare Company production, and also the first to play a lead role, as Rosaline in Love's Labour's Lost?

(I've struck ALT1 as well) I am still quite busy, so please be patient if I don't answer quickly :) –LordPeterII (talk) 17:08, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, and I think one of the two "firsts" would be enough to raise interesting:

ALT2a: ... that when Josette Simon appeared as Rosaline in Love's Labour's Lost at the Royal Shakespeare Company, she was the first black woman in a lead role?

but open for other suggestions. Just curious: was there a black man in a lead role before that? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:12, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes, ALT2a would be great as well. Acorrding to the source, apparently two (but only two) black men had played lead roles before 1984, the year Simon played Rosaline. Still, she was the first black woman. –LordPeterII (talk) 12:01, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Date of Birth

Free BMD has a Josette P Simon born in Leicester in the 2nd quarter of 1959. Is that the subject of this article ? RGCorris (talk) 12:56, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Even if it is we should not be using primary sources. I'm not clear what the problem was with the source for her date of birth that was just removed -- it was a reliable source that said she was 16 in February 1976, so she was born in about 1959. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:42, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

JeffUK, I see you have a source for 1960 as the year of birth, but it would be a remarkable coincidence if the above BMD record is wrong. That record is the only Josette Simon to come up in FreeBMD, and it is from Leicester. Perhaps we should go back to just "c. 1959", which doesn't contradict your source directly? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:18, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

There are two books, one published by the RSC (who employed Josette) stating 1960 as the birth year. She may have been born with another name (i.e. Josette may be a middle name, or stage name.) Also note that the entry on FreeBMD does not correctly link back to a source document. ("The page number is not within the range expected for the district. Note that there a number of possible reasons for this, including an error in the district, the page, the volume, the date or the type of entry. Further information may also be available") as theres doubt as to the accuracy of the transposition (and freebmd is transposed by volunteers) I'm minded to discard it for now. JeffUK 13:42, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

OK, that's reasonable. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:01, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Personal life

"Simon visits patients, with her dog Milo, through the charity Pets As Therapy, and supports the Kaos Signing Choir for Deaf and Hearing Children. She is a patron of Action Deafness, the Life and Deaf Association, the Deaf Ethnic Women's Association, and Safety Curtain."

References

Sources with more independence would be a good thing here, as-is, it comes across a a bit promo-ish. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:49, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

The article has been amended. Regards,BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:48, 30 May 2023 (UTC)