Talk:Kamal Adwan Hospital sieges
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 | On 19 December 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Kamal Adwan Hospital to Kamal Adwan Hospital siege. The result of the discussion was moved. |
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Families deny
editWhy is a family denying a family member of theirs is not a terrorist worth including, with as much if not more authority than Israel’s claims? According to Hamas Israel has killed only noncombatants. Why elevate such a claim for them? Paradox Seeker (talk) 13:47, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, WP:MANDY on any Hamas denial IMO. Andre🚐 19:59, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
- Israel hasn't provided evidence the arrested men and boys were militants, so they remain allegations/accusations. If RS cover the denials, we should include them. CarmenEsparzaAmoux (talk) 17:03, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
- I think a more neutral way to handle it would be to say they were arrested on allegations of terrorism, which in itself shows it’s unverified. Family denying does fall under Mandy. Paradox Seeker (talk) 17:22, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
- MANDY is an essay of zero relevance to NPOV. nableezy - 23:40, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
- This article as written is garbage, no one wants to fix it then do whatever. None of this is good faith balanced reporting. Paradox Seeker (talk) 23:42, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
- Your personal feelings don't cancel out Wikipedia's content policies or constitute new ones. Please make an actual argument and be constructive instead of whining about how this article is biased against Israel. Salmoonlight (talk) 13:02, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- It’s 100% relevant if one motivates the other. Paradox Seeker (talk) 00:34, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- It’s the belief of a few random wikipedians, it has no force whatsoever and calls to follow it while ignoring core policy will be chuckled at and ignored. nableezy - 12:41, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- This article as written is garbage, no one wants to fix it then do whatever. None of this is good faith balanced reporting. Paradox Seeker (talk) 23:42, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
- MANDY is an essay of zero relevance to NPOV. nableezy - 23:40, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
- I think a more neutral way to handle it would be to say they were arrested on allegations of terrorism, which in itself shows it’s unverified. Family denying does fall under Mandy. Paradox Seeker (talk) 17:22, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
- Israel hasn't provided evidence the arrested men and boys were militants, so they remain allegations/accusations. If RS cover the denials, we should include them. CarmenEsparzaAmoux (talk) 17:03, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
Veracity.
editthis page is based on unconfirmed sources. This page is anti Israel propaganda Greerda (talk) 16:21, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
- Agreed. All assumptions are based on Hamas statements, including the reasons for Oct 7 in the first place. I see talk of adding Saudi Arabia to the article. This needs to be fleshed out. Much analysis in the media that Hamas, as an Iranian proxy, struck to undermine Saudi-Israel normalization. Hamas doesn’t represent, fight for, or protect Palestinians. It fights for Iran out of Palestinian territory. Huge miss if geopolitics are skipped over to address human issues solely. Paradox Seeker (talk) 17:29, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
UN confirmation
editUnder "Background" it states that "The UN confirmed the killings" in the maternity ward, but the source only states that the deaths were "reported." That isn't confirming what the director said, it's reiterating it. The sentence should be removed, which the earlier statement from the director standing on its own.ItsRainingCatsAndDogsAndMen (talk) 06:15, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for noticing it. I've quoted the source verbatim. Alaexis¿question? 07:44, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
Infobox "nonoperational"
editIn the infobox, what does status=nonoperational mean? Is this in reference to the hospital? If so, it's probably misplaced as the article is about a military operation, but notwithstanding that, is that supported by the article, which says that there is an operational neo-natal ICU (as of August). ☆ Bri (talk) 16:17, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
Over-use of Al Jazeera
editWP:RSP states Most editors seem to agree that Al Jazeera English and especially Al Jazeera Arabic are biased sources on the Arab–Israeli conflict and on topics for which the Qatari government has a conflict of interest.
Given this, should Al Jazeera be used at all, let alone for more than a third of the article's citations (currently 15 out of 43)? ☆ Bri (talk) 16:49, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
- They are on the ground and Israel has banned other reputable newsorgs from Gaza. Bias does not mean unreliable, the recent RFCs for AJ were snow closed reliable. At worst, for something contentious, inline attribution might be appropriate. Selfstudier (talk) 17:44, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- I would argue that for anything contentious being sourced to this, inline attribution would be necessary. Al-Jazeera isn't an uninterest party here. Hog Farm Talk 04:01, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- This is a problem in many articles about this war. Attributing them definitely makes sense given their bias, especially for contentious content.
- Being the only media source in the area does not mean we should automatically take everything they say at face value. By way of comparison, foreign media generally don't have access to the the Ukrainian territories controlled by Russia but we still don't base our coverage on state Russian media outlets. Alaexis¿question? 22:52, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- Invalid comparison. Selfstudier (talk) 22:54, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
Degree of functionality
editIt should be a priority to follow the degree of functionality and how the siege affects hospital operations. In the October 2024 section, the following text or paraphrasing of it describing the degree to which the hospital was partially operational might be added:
On October 21, 2024, the World Health Organization released a statement describing the degree to which the already damaged and under-supplied hospital was on the brink of non-functionality:
Kamal Adwan Hospital remains partially functional but is struggling to meet growing needs due to intensified hostilities in the north and a shortage of medical supplies and fuel... Currently, there are 95 patients in the hospital, including 15 in intensive care (including four requiring continuous life support) seven of whom are children. Over the last two days, at least 200 severely injured people and 53 dead bodies have been brought to the already overwhelmed hospital. Damaged roads, combined with ongoing hostilities, are severely disrupting safe access to the hospital. If patients, ambulances, and health workers are unable to reach the facility, and partners cannot resupply it, the hospital may soon become non-functional.
The WHO stated that despite receiving prior military approval, the resupply component of their mission to Kamal Adwan was suddenly denied by the army hours before they were set to begin delivering critical medical supplies on Oct 20. A similar mission received approval for both evacuation and resupply components, and was carried out by a WHO-led joint operation with partners including the Palestinian Red Cross Society on October 24. Even with those supplies, the World Health Organization said that Kamal Adwan's functionality could only be described as "at an absolute minimum" at an October 25th UN Geneva press briefing, describing overwhelmed staff with over 200 patients seeking care. The report mentions hundreds of internally placed persons seeking shelter near or at the hospital.
The section describing the siege should also include a statement about the effects of the siege on the operations of the hospital:
Of the 70 total medical staff present at Kamal Adwan at the time of the siege, 44 were detained and 30 were taken into military custody, per OCHA situation update. According to the Ministry of Health, cited in OCHA's report, "only the hospital’s director and one pediatrician" remain at the hospital as of October 29th, with no ICU, surgical, or anesthesia teams. At the time there were an estimated 150 injured in need of treatment at Kamal Adwan hospital.
Curlsstars (talk) 23:52, 30 October 2024 (UTC)