Talk:Kaniyar Panicker

Reference books

Padmanabha Menon, K.P. T K Krishna :History of Kerala, 4 Vols. --Ernakulam: Cochin Government Press, 1924-37.

Panikkar, Gopal, T K Malabar and Its Folk -- New Delhi: AES, 1900. 

Panikkar, K K Community Development Administration in Kerala -- New Delhi: S Chand & Co, 1974. Panikkar, K M History of Kerala 1498-1801 --: Annamalai University, 1959. Anantha Krishna Iyer, L K Tribes and Castes of Cochin Vol. II, Vol. III.-- New Delhi: Cosmo, 1981. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kesavan Dhivakaran (talk • contribs) 08:22, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Reference books

Padmanabha Menon, K.P. T K Krishna :History of Kerala, 4 Vols. --Ernakulam: Cochin Government Press, 1924-37.

Panikar, Gopal, T K Malabar and Its Folk -- New Delhi: AES, 1900. 

Panikkar, K K Community Development Administration in Kerala -- New Delhi: S Chand & Co, 1974. Panikkar, K M History of Kerala 1498-1801 --: Annamalai University, 1959. Anantha Krishna Iyer, L K Tribes and Castes of Cochin Vol. II, Vol. III.-- New Delhi: Cosmo, 1981. --Kesavan Dhivakaran (talk) 08:27, 25 September 2010 (UTC)Kesavan Dhivakaran, Kunnanoor, Palghat- Sulur, Coimbatore

It is well known and appreciated fact that People of the dominating caste( by way of number or power) in each era, may distort or suppress the intolerable informations for taking advantage of it OR modify it in such way as to make them favorable to their side.

The errors of govt commissions remain uncorrected ,if it is not challenged and requested by powerful lobby. so such records are also not considerable as flawless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.254.135.33 (talk) 11:56, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Iam afraid that using the term "very" low caste may trigger a cognitive conflict.Over all evaluation of notes about Kaniyar people in kerala from Barbosa's assumption or description from Turstons book , logially appears that their social status were different in each sub regions of kerala .

It seems that while they were recognised as teachers of socially higher rank people such as Nairs, the other lower caste people also received some services of their traditional practices at another end.

Over all evaluation of those writings infers that most of them(kaniyar) were letter learned people ( probably for the sake of astrology), despite having a pevalence of lower literacy among higher caste people such as Nairs. More over, it points that whatever be their sir names or sub titles in different regions , they all have practiced traditional astrology in general.

it is heard that most of them(kaniyar) had a practice of keeping records as palm leaf writings and none of them could find light in the new era. By digitising their records may help us to know more about them

Mean while Let us find more evidences and reliable sources to supplement the article

                                                               117.254.141.92 (talk) 15:24, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, we need more reliable sources and they need to be modern ones. Unfortunately, we cannot change what is said by the sources that are currently used because to do so would be to undermine the integrity of the article & would breach one or more of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the caste is notable then it will have been documented in a useful way within the last 10 years or so.

An aside, can someone please explain the difference between Kaniyar Panicker and Kaniyar. They appear to be from two different areas but this article is a mess in part because of the confusion. In particular, the suffix "Panicker" does not usually refer to a caste but to an occupation. And that occupation is not the same an Asan, so either we need a separate article for "Kaniyar Asan" or (more likely) this article should be merged with Kaniyar and a note of the regional differences added to it. There is a real problem here. - Sitush (talk) 16:04, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

well! That is a good point.

It is well evident from the records that all these sub sects are belong to one class of people Kaniyans or Kanisans , who traditionally practiced astrology, but other vocations such as primary teaching (Nilethezhuthu kalari=malayalam term )of letters for reading and writing in local village , martial teaching (Ayodhana kalari=malayalam term), herbal medicine practice , sorcery and palm leaf umbrella making are also taken up,by some of them,as inherited professions . The other names Ganaka,Kaniyar, kanisu,kanigal etc are also referred to them in different locations of kerala

Panicker,Kurup,Asan,Nambikurup,Gurukkal,Jyotsian,kalari kurup,kaniyar kurup, kalari panicker, Kaniyar panicker are sir names conferred to Kaniyan people by local ruling royal families in honour of their traditional practices. Subsequently these specific titles are duly maintained by those families and followed in inheritance.

Definitely people and families from other castes were also have been conferred with titles of panicker and kurup (Nair, Ezhava etc).But still the titles Panicker and Kalari panicker/ kalari kurup are widely and specifically used to refer kaniyans of northern kerala.

So Kaniyans or kaniyars of kerala would be a more apropriate heading and would make a sense.

                                       117.254.141.92 (talk) 16:41, 4 May 2011 (UTC)