Talk:Kate Greenaway Medal

Winners of multiple awards

first of four new sections 2012-05-08, after second draft of major revision; parallel comments at Talk:Carnegie Medal in Literature may be useful

As i leave the article after major revision, this section shows no references. I have relied entirely on inspection of our tables of winners (and finalists for the Caldecott). Although the tables are sortable, that work is errorprone, so may benefit from another editor or two. --P64 (talk) 19:28, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

distinct Author

As i leave the article after major revision in the last few days, there is a four-column sortable wikitable (my design and markup, but nearly the same as the Carnegie table) with incomplete fourth column "distinct Author".
em-dash (—) indicates i have confirmed a single author-illustrator.
blank indicates i have not checked. --P64 (talk) 19:28, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Publication year

As i leave the article after major revision in the last few days, there are some mentions of the "school year" in relation to the publication year that defines award eligibility, September to August.

I wonder how long the Sep to Aug publication year has been in effect. It's a great misfit for casual references to the "preceding year" or the "year following publication" (by me, previous editors, and CILIP).

The "50th Anniversary Top Ten" relies on such casual reference, in effect, if i recall correctly. Some parenthetical dates may not be publication dates, but off by one, if a publication year different from the calendar year was used before 2006. --P64 (talk) 19:28, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Shortlists

fourth of four new sections 2012-05-08, after second draft of major revision; parallel comments at Talk:Carnegie Medal in Literature may be useful

Are the winners consistently excluded from the shortlists here? My spot check shows winners excluded for Greenaway, included for Carnegie Medal in Literature#Shortlists, which is not best and needs explanation in the shortlist preface anyway.

2012-06-09 Oops, working at Guardian Medal a month ago, I mistakenly compared lists for different years (because the longlist ends at 2007). All three articles Carnegie, Greenaway, Guardian need to be checked for whether we have published exclusive or inclusive lists. -P64

At the top i have marked this section {{incomplete list}} and {{citation needed}}. We need a source for shortlists back to 2000. Perhaps there was (and is at Internet Archive) a single online source for 2000 to 200x, used without reference when the page was created. At CILIP i quickly find only the current 2012 and Recent 2011 shortlists.

later, 2010 and 2009, thanks to references at Carnegie Medal -P64, 2012-06-09

If 1995 was the first public shortlist, we should explain that --both in the lead and at 1995 in the list, I think.

Winners may deserve some highlight in the shortlists, if/when they are included.

Perhaps the shortlists should be used to provide more information at least for winners, as a start? For 1995 to 1998 we show {Illustrator, Title (Publisher)}, not only Illustrator, Title. At least the Writer should be consistently identified where distinct from the illustrator. --P64 (talk) 19:28, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Shortlist data we now provide, 2012-06-09

Illustrator, Title 1995-98, 2000-2012

References 1995-98, 2009-2012 (eight distinct annual refs)

Author of text 2011-12 only, plus two 2010 winners marked "(illustrator)"

Publisher 1995-98 only

--P64 (talk) 20:58, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Code

In the code (visible only in edit mode) for all annual listings --shortlists or Medalist plus commendations-- the string <!----> indicates that data entry {Illustrator, Title (Publisher), Author} is complete and wikilinks have been checked. At the moment, "Author" may be the displayed symbol '@', which means written by the illustrator.

When I finish this stint (late June), absence of the code will signify missing data or conflicting data about the publisher or author (because I have entered every Illustrator, Title, and checked every wikilink).

(to be corrected confirmed or clarified after this stint) --P64 (talk) 21:39, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Runners up

This week I have added listings (1955 to 1994) or annotations (1995 to 2002) for all commendations known to me. Except one 1988 special commendation the source is CCSU library [ref name=ccsu]. There were precisely 100 such commendations, iicc: the one special, 31 Highly Commended (1974 to 2002), and 68 Commended (1959 to 2002). The latter include "Honor" rather than "Commended" designations from 1968 to 1969 or 1970, where two sources differ.

Annually 1959-2002 there were as few as zero and as many as six commendations of all kinds, but either two or three in 32 of those 44 years. Because four illustrators won Medals for two works (from 1959 to 1982), it is not clear precisely how many genuine Medal candidates the 100 commendations represent. Yet it seems reasonable to consider them all "runners up" for the Medal. In a few biographies I have already called the commended illustrators runners up; eg, someone was four times a runner up, twice Commended and twice Highly Commended. I would say the same about a book it its own article.

As of 2012-06-28 we have 16 complete shortlists for 1995-1998, 2000-2005, and 2007-2012 (where 1999 is missing and 2006 marks a gap in the official award dates). There are six to eight books on every shortlist, so they identify 5 to 7 "losing finalists", so to speak.

There were 31 Highly Commended illustrators or books (no person with two books in one year, no work with two illustrators) in 29 years from 1974 to 2002. Helen Oxenbury was a four-time HC runner up, which I have covered in her biography. (Michael Foreman (illustrator) was a five-time runner up, including one HC, which I have covered in his biography.) --P64 (talk) 20:42, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Backlinks done

updated once

Brief report, without description of said Greenaway coverage.

Illustrators

• For all illustrators with two Greenaway Medals (14) and all named to the Anniversary Top Ten (10), I have covered the Greenaway in their biographies.

They are 17 distinct illustrators, all of whom have biographies here. They account for 31 of the 55 Medals and 59 winning works through 2012.

• Among the 27 illustrators who have won one Medal, I have covered the Greenaway in one or two of biographies. I don't plan to serve this group systematically.

Books

I have also covered the Greenaway for those books in the Anniversary Top Ten that have independent book or series articles here (4).

--2012-07-01; P64 (talk) 20:55, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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Renaming the article

The Kate Greenaway Medal was renamed the Yoto Carnegie Medal for Illustration in 2022, I think the article title should be updated to reflect this : https://yotocarnegies.co.uk/about-the-awards/history-of-the-medals/. Mattlibrarian (talk) 19:58, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I think this would be premature. The Press page of the yotocarnegies site states that there is a three-year partnership with Yoto, so we could be looking at another change in a couple of years. It seems more like a sponsorship deal, which wouldn't generally affect the article name. The Press page also refers to the Yoto Carnegie Greenaway Awards, while the page cited calls it just the Carnegie Medal for Illustration. At best, still a bit up in the air to change the article name, through redirects might be advisable. ---- Robina Fox (talk) 21:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Also worth noting is that we never used CILIP in the article titles, so a more consistent change would be to Carnegie Medal for Illustration. Robina Fox (talk) 18:01, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

I would certainly argue that we should move to Carnegie Medal for Illustration (without Yoto). It seems like this is a more permanent change, unrelated to sponsorship. Significa liberdade (talk) 14:39, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree Carnegie Medal for Illustration is probably the best fit. Rhagfyr (talk) 14:46, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

On the other hand, Wikipedia's policy on article titles gives first place to recognizability and naturalness, and this award has been known as the Kate Greenaway Medal for nearly 70 years. Is it going to be commonly referred to now as the Carnegie Medal for Illustration or is that just its official name? I have been wondering if the opening sentence shouldn't read "The Kate Greenaway Medal (since 2022 officially the Carnegie Medal for Illustration)...." I'm concerned that Wikipedia might influence usage if the article name is changed, which shouldn't happen. Robina Fox (talk) 13:57, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree the article should be moved, and I would say: Kate Greenaway Medal → Carnegie Medal for Illustration. We've got other problems, though; with the renaming it appears that a large number of our reference citations now point to nothingness (even ignoring the first five cites, which are done incorrectly). We probably need to locate shortlists and winners lists and process pages in some new location at carnegiegreenaway.org.uk or some other source. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 23:54, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Renaming the award

There's nothing in the article about renaming the award, a commercial move which was controversial and which is currently subject to a petition drive seeking to have the deal reversed. --Orange Mike | Talk 01:56, 20 July 2023 (UTC)