Talk:Kim Jong Il/Archive 7

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110501025038/http://www.independent.com.mt/news2.asp?artid=101298 to http://www.independent.com.mt/news2.asp?artid=101298
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.startribune.com/nation/28048604.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080910201948/http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j2zReXndGtxbEQ9gsY3SWxImKHHw to http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j2zReXndGtxbEQ9gsY3SWxImKHHw
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0%2C8599%2C1840419%2C00.html
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://tf1.lci.fr/infos/monde/asie/0%2C%2C4141229%2C00-le-chirurgien-francais-dement-tout-visite-a-kim-jong-ii-.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081216143354/http://afp.google.com/media/ALeqM5ikrDW2BrCj5Y3MTang70ZE_smGwQ?size=s to http://afp.google.com/media/ALeqM5ikrDW2BrCj5Y3MTang70ZE_smGwQ?size=s
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091228010936/http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gBLJIU2BX0waPQyOREz9HYBInH8g to http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gBLJIU2BX0waPQyOREz9HYBInH8g
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C205287%2C00.html
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2006/200608/news08/11.htm
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2001/200106/news06/18.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160430004204/http://www.north-korea-books.com/index.php?route=product%2Fcategory&path=1_18_46 to http://www.north-korea-books.com/index.php?route=product%2Fcategory&path=1_18_46
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160513233841/http://www.rodong.rep.kp/en/index.php?strPageID=SF01_02_01&newsID=2016-05-05-0014 to http://www.rodong.rep.kp/en/index.php?strPageID=SF01_02_01&newsID=2016-05-05-0014
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050213081159/http://www.east-asia-intel.com/eai/Sample/2.html to http://www.east-asia-intel.com/eai/Sample/2.html

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External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070311153844/http://nk.chosun.com/english/news/news.html?ACT=detail&res_id=7283 to http://nk.chosun.com/english/news/news.html?ACT=detail&res_id=7283

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Semi-protected edit request on 10 September 2017

In the second paragraph, North has been spelled as "Nort". 2605:A000:161A:4230:29D3:7F82:4F39:7EA3 (talk) 07:51, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Done Gulumeemee (talk) 08:12, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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I have just modified 4 external links on Kim Jong-il. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090216130206/http://www.cfr.org/publication/10858/ to http://www.cfr.org/publication/10858/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090311071223/http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/05/content_10310320.htm to http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/05/content_10310320.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120811005825/http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2957573 to http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2957573
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20170908202907/http://kcna.co.jp/item/2015/201502/news18/20150218-14ee.html to http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2015/201502/news18/20150218-14ee.html

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External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 01 May 2018

This image features twice in this article, and in sections that are quite close together, namely 'personality' section and the 'death' section. I would remove it from 'personality' as that section already has one image. Cheers, --― Jjm596 ✉ 19:49, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Fixed.--Jack Upland (talk) 20:51, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Name

@Jack Upland: Hi, there is a convention at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean). We should follow the convention regardless of all the sources. Hddty. (talk) 02:43, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

I am aware of the convention; in fact, you can see that I have registered my objection to it. However, there is nothing wrong with noting variants of spellings, as does the article on Mao Zedong.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:11, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

That's just different punctuation in which both would be spelled the same. All Korean biographies, including Kim Jong-un, doesn't have this (note that there are many source called him "Kim Jong Un" as well). Hddty. (talk) 21:58, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Yuri

I think it is misleading to say he was born Yuri Irsenovich Kim. This was his Russian name, and he was registered with that name in the USSR. Irsenovich means "son of Irsen", Irsen being a Russian version of "Il Sung". The article implies that he adopted the name Kim Jong Il later, but I don't think we have a source which says that.--Jack Upland (talk) 19:48, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

assuming supreme leadership

It is written in the infobox that Kim became Supreme Leader in April 2009, yet he clearly succeeded his father in July 1994. What is the reason for this?. 78.108.56.35 (talk) 17:29, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

The lead states, "In April 2009, North Korea's constitution was amended to refer to him and his successors as the 'supreme leader of the DPRK'". The source says, "For the first time, the constitution refers to him implicitly as 'supreme leader'." The 2009 constitution said, "Article 100. The chairman of the DPRK National Defense Commission [NDC] is the supreme leader [ch'oego ryo'ngdoja] of the DPRK". (Note supreme leader is in lower case.) I don't think all that is strong enough to support what is in the article.--Jack Upland (talk) 20:00, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2019

I suggesting adding at the end of the 2nd Cult of Personality paragraph:

"It also was reported by North Korean officials that Kim was one of the world's best golfers, reportedly shooting 38 under par and 11 holes in one during his first game of golf in 1994 when Kim was 52 years old. This claim has been widely disputed. source: http://www.espn.com/espn/page2/index/_/id/7369649 " Daedalus1960 (talk) 18:54, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: The claim that North Korean state media reported that Kim was one of the worlds best golfers is mentioned--but not cited by--the Gallo source. Where Gallo heard this from is unknown.  Spintendo  13:34, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

See [1]. A North Korean golf pro told this to an Australian journalist, but it has never been part of official propaganda and was never repeated in the North Korean media.--Jack Upland (talk) 07:33, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2019

This is misleading information please change as follows and remove the link to University of Malta: Kim is also said to have received English language education in Malta in the early 1970s[20] on his infrequent holidays there as a guest of Prime Minister Dom Mintoff. Mario Cassar1401 (talk) 11:52, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

​The source mentions University of Malta. What do you feel is misleading about the statement? Please reopen this edit request if you have reliable sources mentioning something else. – Þjarkur (talk) 12:29, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

This source is not reliable. He was taught English in Malta by a University professor but had nothing to do with University of Malta. He was taught on a one to one basis and never got an accreditation from UM - See here - https://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20111220/local/The-Dear-Leader-s-secret-stay-in-Malta.399242 taught by Professor Massa but not at the University Premises. Please remove any mention of University of Malta — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mario Cassar1401 (talk • contribs) 13:05, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Further proof - Taught bu a University of Malta professor but no ties with the institution - https://www.nknews.org/2014/06/kim-jong-ils-unlikely-maltese-mentor-a-secret-military-agreement/ Please amend as this is very misleading

Please remove Kim Jong-il from the University of Malta alumnus category. This is not correct information. He never graduated from University of Malta Mario Cassar1401 (talk) 12:56, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

​ Thanks for noticing and thanks for the sources! I'll fix this immediately. – Þjarkur (talk) 13:14, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Official titles

What to do with the mostly unsourced "Official titles" section? It seems to mix actual political offices with epithets without any context. Both types of titles should be (and already are) discussed in prose. Those that are, are also rightly duplicated in the infobox and the succession boxes. I'd prefer if we removed the section and moved the link to List of Kim Jong-il's titles to the "See also" section. Thoughts? – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:41, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Remove.--Jack Upland (talk) 20:21, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 January 2020

"Kim Jong-il recieved numerous titles during his rule."

Change 'recieved' to 'received' BlackPointSeaview (talk) 20:16, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

 Done Thanks! RudolfRed (talk) 20:24, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 February 2020

kim jong il is a north korean politician 107.1.219.57 (talk) 16:53, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

If you're talking about the lead, I think the current one makes more sense when it says he was the leader of North Korea. If you're talking about categories, a few of them are subcategories of Category:North Korean politicians so that is covered as well. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:29, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Discussion on how to handle "eternal" office status in infoboxes

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Kim_Il-sung#How_to_handle_presidency_status. Sdkb (talk) 07:16, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Birth name in first line

It is not normal to include birth names of famous people in the first line of an article? Frankly I trust Soviet records after Soviet collapse over North Korea's claims if there is any doubt there. Kylesenior (talk) 04:17, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 April 2020

Kim Jong-il (officially transcribed Kim Jong Il; Korean: 김정일; Korean pronunciation: [kim.dzɔŋ.il];[a] 16 February 1941 or 1942 – 17 December 2011) was the second leader of North Korea. He ruled from the death of his father, Kim Il-sung, the first leader of North Korea. His son begun his rule in 1994 until his own death in 2011. Kimjontom (talk) 02:04, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. That appears to be what is already the lede sentence in the article. Please be specific about what changes you are suggesting. RudolfRed (talk) 03:51, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

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Birth place

The Korean wikipedia as well as Namu Wiki state that Kim was born in Camp Voroshilov near Nikolsk. They further mention that his father Kim Il-sung came to Vyatskoye only in July 1942. Moreover, Namu Wiki mentions that the widespread belief of Kim being born in Vyatskoye stems from a guerilla fighter named Ri Jae-dok (리재덕) without any further reference given. Anyways, there is also the book Change and Continuity in North Korean Politics, where it says on page 121, that Kim was born in either Voroshilov or Vyatskoye. Moreover, there is Kim Jong-il's Leadership of North Korea, where Lim claims on pages 9-10, that Kim cannot have been born in Vyatskoye and that his birth place should be Voroshilov, because that is where Kim Il-sung was until July 1942. --Christian140 (talk) 18:00, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 February 2021

In the first paragraph, change "He led North Korea from the 1994 death of his father Kim Il-sung, the first Supreme Leader until his own death in 2011, when he was succeeded by his son, Kim Jong-un. " to "He led North Korea from the 1994 death of his father — Kim Il-sung, the first Supreme Leader — until his own death in 2011, when he was succeeded by his son, Kim Jong-un."

This would fix the ambiguity of the sentence. Ariannacheveldave (talk) 06:15, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Volteer1 (talk) 08:38, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

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Shigemura theory of Kim's 2003 death

Why is it even included? The guy clearly didn't have a clue. 73.71.251.64 (talk) 05:53, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

If it had "baffled foreign intelligence agencies for years" it sounds like a highly relevant issue, even if it turned out to be false. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 07:24, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

If there is a record of their "bafflement" aside from Shigemura's own self-promotion, maybe a more representative set of examples can be mentioned. 73.71.251.64 (talk) 04:12, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Kim Jong Il date of death

Kim Jong Il died either late Dec. 2012 or early Jan 2013. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:701:380:95C0:90A7:CC5:B450:5DE6 (talk) 13:48, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

"Jin Zhengri" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Jin Zhengri and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 January 25#Jin Zhengri until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 15:29, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Irsenovich

Of the three sources cited for this alleged name, the Chosun Ilbo is (for once!) the most substantial, presenting an interview with a resident of the Russian city where KIS was stationed. There is no mention of "Soviet records" nor "Irsenovich," and even if the Soviets recorded his name that way for cultural reasons, it wouldn't prove that he was not originally named KJI. The Life source, retrieved from the Internet Archive, comments only in passing and also without mentioning records. The CNN citation is useless because it provides no date. 67.180.143.89 (talk) 03:00, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

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bruh PreserveOurHistory (talk) 06:25, 4 May 2022 (UTC)