Talk:Kingdom of Marwar

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Jodhpur palace.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:52, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Map

Hi @PadFoot2008 Can you discuss your problem with my map Rawn3012 (talk) 12:52, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

The map doesn't make much sense. Why is it nearly the same as the map of Mewar you had made, and that too within the same time period (1521 and 1531)? Would you mind explaining it? Also you shouldn't have removed the other maps. PadFoot (talk) 14:10, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

The time period is same because Rao Maldeo Rathore of Marwar who was the son of Rao Ganga of Marwar(One of the vassals of Mewar) after the death of Maharana Sanga captialized his position in Marwar and after taking the full controll of latter started attacking all the other Rajput Kingdoms and Mewar itself after 1527 and as Mewar was weak due the death of it's King(Maharana Sanga) and other Rajput Kings who could pose no opposition, hence within four years his territories as described by Rima Hooja in A History of Rajasthan, Page no 520-522 says "Maldeo's western territory at this time extended up to Sindh-Cholistan in the west and parts of Gujarat in the south-west. He had direct control over 40 districts in and around present day Rajasthan including Ajmer, Barmer, Didwana, Bikaner, Sanchore, Jalore, Jaislmer, Sojat and Merta. In 1539 Maldeo took advantage of the war between the Mughals and the Sur Empire to conquer Bayana, Tonk and Toda. Alongside this, he posted Marwari Gariison at Jaunpur in Mewar and annexed the territories of Sambhar, Kalsi, Fatehpur, Rewasa, Chhota Udaipur(Udaipur- Shekhawati), Chatsu, lawan and Malarana" Rawn3012 (talk) 15:47, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

@PadFoot2008 Any replies Rawn3012 (talk) 07:32, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I had been a bit preoccupied. The concerns are the same as it had been at Mewar, vassals should be shown separately. PadFoot (talk) 11:40, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

If you will mind reading the source which I have provided, you will get to know that there were no vassals of Marwar, all the territories which I have shaded or included are directly controlled.

Regards

Rawn3012 (talk) 14:43, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

If that is indeed the case, then you have certainly exaggerated the map. Your map doesn't align with the source. The source does list one vassal, i.e, Mewar, which the source doesn't say was annexed by Marwar, and rather that was garrisoned by Marwar. The directly controlled territories of Marwar as per the source provided, doesn't include southern, southeastern and far northern Rajasthan. I would also advice you to find a source that does list vassals of Marwar, as the remaining parts of Rajputana might have been vassals. PadFoot (talk) 15:02, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

As a side note, I am currently conducting a research on the topic and trying to find more sources on the detailed conquests of Rao Maldeo and the kingdoms he had annexed. PadFoot (talk) 15:45, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I have not included Mewar in my map which counts for southern Rajasthan and also districts of Bhilwara, Bundi, Kota, Baran & Jhalawar which form the part of southeast Rajasthan and as far as northern Rajasthan is concerned It consists of Bikaner at that time which was in direct control of Rao Maldeo Rathore. Aside from that, Shekhawati was also under Maldeo's direct control. Rawn3012 (talk) 15:52, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Your map includes far northern Rajasthan, southern Rajasthan, the greater part of Mewar, and parts of Madhya Pradesh and Gujarat. It is clearly exaggerated, and includes territories not mentioned in the source. I think we should see more sources. PadFoot (talk) 17:47, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Also, I just checked the quotation you have provided and searched for it on Google and was disappointed to see that you have changed the quote. From next time onwards, please provide the exact unchanged quotation from a source when you quote something, and do not make you own changes. PadFoot (talk) 18:08, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I've managed to retrieve the entire unchanged quote by Hooja (2006):

stretching between present-day Sindh/Cholistan desert (in Pakistan) in the west and north- west, up to Gujarat in the south-west. In fact, Maldeo added to his hereditary dominion of Jodhpur some forty parganas, or districts, including Ajmer , Barmer , Didwana , Bikaner , Sanchore , Jalore , Jaisalmer Sojat and Merta . Besides bringing large tracts of western and northern Rajasthan under his domination , Maldeo also took advantage of the on - going contest for imperial power between the Mughal emperor Humayun and Sher Shah Sur to further expand his territories . In 1539 , Maldeo extended his domination up to Bayana and its surrounding environs. He also defeated a branch of the Solanki Rajputs who ruled the region around modern - day Tonk and Toda , and established his suzerainty over the area . Alongside this , he also posted Marwari garrisons at Jaunpur in Mewar , and annexed the territories of Sambhar , Kalsi , Fatehpur , Rewasa , Chhota Udaipur ( Udaipur - Shekhawati ) , Chatsu ( now called Chaksu ) , Lawan and Malarana .

You appear to have changed large parts of the quote according to your own will when you initially quoted it, and removed keywords such as "suzerainty" and "domination" which indicates vassal states, as well lots of other crucial information. You also added false information such as "direct rule" which the source does not mention. I certainly do not approve of this. PadFoot (talk) 18:15, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Performing an analysis of the full quote now, we see that the Kingdom of Mewar included the region around Jodhpur, Jaipur, Bikaner, Nagaur, and Sikar. Under its suzerainty, was "Tonk and Toda" and presumably Mewar, with northern and western Rajasthan under Rao Maldeo's domination. PadFoot (talk) 18:33, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

@PadFoot2008 Well, you are putting a false charge on me for changing the quotation. The book I quoted was from the library and had some words that were not clear and there people(with a pen) have written above on it(which I have wrongly assumed as the missing words). Also, The quote is the same. The only major change that I seem to see is for Bayana, Tonk and Toda for which there is difference of word "conquer" to "suzzeranity". If I would be changing the quoted words I would have went for whole of Mewar or something else. Rawn3012 (talk) 00:58, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

I will also advise you to re-read your quote itself "In fact, Maldeo added to his hereditary dominion of Jodhpur some forty parganas, or districts, including Ajmer, Barmer, Didwana, Bikaner, Sanchore, Jalore, Jaisalmer Sojat and Merta. Besides bringing large tracts of western and northern Rajasthan under his domination" Here the area of Bikaner formed the northern Rajasthan at that time and western Rajasthan itself counted for Marwar and Jaislmer and Jaislmer has already been incluled by Hooja. So here Rima Hooja tries to say the territories he had captured Ajmer, Barmer, Didwana, Bikaner, Sanchore, Jalore, Jaisalmer Sojat and Merta which at that time formed Western and Northern Rajasthan had helped him to establish his domination over that area, as all western and northern Rajasthan was under his controllonly.

Regards

Rawn3012 (talk) 01:14, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

@PadFoot2008 Why you have added your map to the infobox without giving me the chance to correct my map? This is not fair. Whenever you have asked me to come into the discussion I came and when it was your turn, you added your map without consensus. First give me the chance to correct my map. Aside of that why you have added Jaislmer in vassal shade? can't you read the source that it was in Rao's heredeitary dominion of Jodhpur and why you have not included Bikaner? Rawn3012 (talk) 02:13, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

She clearly says that northern and western Rajasthan were under the 'domination' of the Rao, she doesn't use the word 'annexed', thus we shall need one more source to clarify that situation. Besides, I have included the Bikaner city, while other parts of the kingdom were not annexed as mentioned by Hooja in page 543:

Early in 1542, Rao Ganga's successor, the famous warrior-king Maldeo, besieged Bikaner. Jaitsi was killed at Suwa, near Bikaner, after a gallant resistance, and Maldeo annexed his capital, along with a sizeable part of the kingdom of Bikaner

And Hooja only mentions Jodhpur as a hereditary dominion, while the parganas were added by Maldeo, notice that she doesn't use the word 'annexed' which she clearly uses for the territories below. PadFoot (talk) 03:24, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

@PadFoot2008 I will revert back to you after updating my map.

Regards Rawn3012 (talk) 04:33, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi @PadFoot2008 Please see the updated map, I have shaded Amber, Jaislmer and Mewar as vassal Kingdoms with some parts of cholistan desert and for directly controlled areas I have taken Ajmer , Barmer , Didwana , Bikaner(city only) , Sanchore , Jalore , Sojat and Merta along with Sambhar , Kalsi , Fatehpur , Rewasa , Chhota Udaipur ( Udaipur - Shekhawati ) , Chatsu ( now called Chaksu ) , Lawan and Malarana. I have included Jaislmer as vassal because some pages after, Rima told us that Jaislmer was a vassal and the fort has been restrored to Bhatis after having a matrimonial alliance with Rao Maldeo. Also, as you will be seeing it from it's name that it is a demo file, Hence final will be created after a proper consensus.

Regards

Rawn3012 (talk) 02:48, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Agree The map seems good. A correction is needed to made however, Tonk was a vassal. PadFoot (talk) 11:36, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Will upload the proper version after correcting Tonk as a vassal.

Regards

Rawn3012 (talk) 11:38, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Also, please don't add the legend as well. It looks better that way. It is not required and most other maps don't use it either. PadFoot (talk) 11:42, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Noted Rawn3012 (talk) 11:45, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

@Rawn3012, I asked you to not add the legend. It is unnecessary. PadFoot (talk) 13:52, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi@PadFoot2008 Extremely Sorry! I had forgot to not to add the legend

Regards

Rawn3012 (talk) 13:53, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

@Rawn3012, thanks. Also please correct the location of Tonk as well, you've shown it very close to the Madhya Pradesh border. It is actually situated nearer to Ajmer than the border (nearly half but closer to Ajmer). PadFoot (talk) 14:00, 20 August 2024 (UTC)