Talk:Kiril Simonovski

Name ending

Until 1913 the Slavic-speakers in the area of Vardar Macedonia were predominantly under the jurisdiction of the Bulgarian Exarchate and with Bulgarian self-identification. The male names were written with endings - ov or - ev. Between 1913-1915 the area was under Serbian control and in 1915 - 1919 it was annexed by Bulgaria. This player was born in the territories annexed by the Kingdom of Bulgaria. All names in the annexed areas were again under the jurisdiction of the Bulgarian Exarchate, and were written with endings -ov or -ev. The ending -ski was introduced much later - in Communist Yugoslavia after 1944 to help the locals to differ both: Serbian and Bulgarian names. On the other hand in Kingdom of Serbia, later in Kingdom of Yugoslavia, the ending of the male names was - ic. Probably his original name was written with ending - ov, later changed to - ic, and finally to - ski. However, in the Vardar Banoviana under Serbian control, then called also Southern Serbia, the name Macedonia was vorbiden for public use. About the political decision to change the endings of the male names from - ov, - ev, to - ski after 1944, read in this academic publication on page 87, please. Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 05:02, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

No problem, I made one further edit which adresses both yours and mine concerns. I was never challenging anything you wrote here which I am well aware of, I just tried to make it clear in the article, nothing less. Btw, Bulgarian troops entered Skopje just a short time earlier from when he was born, but that is not a problem, just that usually I don´t see added unrecognised anexations, but I leave it that way, no problem. FkpCascais (talk) 02:34, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

OK! Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 06:04, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

That's not entirely true. Births registered with the Bulgarian Exarchate were done so with officially sanctioned first names and with a "corrected" surname. That's why many Vlachs had Slavic names. For example, if a child was born to the x clan then they would be registered as xov. But during the Serbian administration, their documents would have been [re]issued with the "yet again corrected" surname xović. But in most villages, even to this day, people continue to refer to each other by their traditional family names: where I come from, we use -ski but almost all of us are officially registered as -ov/-ev. My relatives who moved abroad have the same surname but with the ending -ić and my last surviving relative in Greece has a hellenized variant of the very same surname. In Communist Yugoslavia, people were free to choose! That's why in some areas -ski predominates (which is how the names for most соеви are constructed in the south and southwest of the country), yet in others -ov/-ev and a few people even have surnames without suffixes. The Communist Yugoslav government did not force any name on anybody: proof of this is why so many elderly brothers and sisters have differing surnames (e.g. one named after the father, the other after the traditional family name, etc.). --101.112.144.25 (talk) 07:17, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

It is interesting to see that before 1941, most players of Gragjanski Skopje and other clubs from the Vardarska Banovina had their surnames ending with -ić while those same players had their surnames changed to -ski after 1945. You can see this in the page 129 in the book "Fudbal u Kraljevini Jugoslaviji" (Football in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, possible to download here) the squads of Gradjanski during the 1920s and 1930s, having all -ić surnames. There was a Simonović which was probably this player Kiril Simonovski, who later became Kiril Simeonov while playing for Bulgarian national team during WWII (see RSSSF), and afterwords within socialist Yugoslavia as Simonovski.

The entire discussion happend because of this edit where seems that User:Jingiby objected my sentence of

• "...Simonovski played two matches for the Bulgarian national team under the Bulgarianized name of Kiril Simeonov.

I actually didn´t intended to do nothing else but to add the simple information that the "Kiril Simeonov" who played for Bulgarian national team during that period was in fact Kiril Simonovski (in order to eliminate any confusion or missunderstanding as someone uninformed could easily supose that these were two different players), and I supose Jingiby did not felt confortable with me using the expression "Bulgarianised name"... However, I would have used the expression "Serbianised name" in same way if there was a need to adress the fact that he was known in official match reports as "Kiril Simonović" before 1941, however that information was not included in the article for time being as that was not that much important to adress here, although a "Name section" could be worth perhaps including in the article, or at least it would be curious to explore and explain the interesting fact that the player played with 3 surname versions troughout his career. Anyway, I much appreciate your input 101.112.144.25. and all suggestions are welcomed. FkpCascais (talk) 07:45, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

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Birthplace

His birthplace was Skopje, then in that part of Serbia, which was occupied by Bulgaria during WWI. What is the problem to call the facts with their real names. Moreover this fact is sourced and indisputable. Jingiby (talk) 19:07, 20 August 2020 (UTC)