Talk:Kokopelli

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Comment

An important purpose for dictionaries and/or encyclopedias is to show the pronunciation of the word that the user has looked up. This is not done here.

How do you pronounce Kokopelli? A person from Colorado told me that it is pronounced Cocoa pelly. Locally there is a jewellery store called "Kokopilau" and it is pronounced Cocoa'pill-law. I have always pronounced Kokopelli as Cocoa'pell-eye.

Who is right, how do the natives pronounce it?

Pronouncing Kokopelli

Locally in Arizona, names ending in the long I sound most often end in "ai". Examples would include the Hualapai & Havasupai tribes and the rivers that are named after them. Names ending in an "I", like Hopi, end with the long E sound.

I am operating under the assumption that Kokopelli has the same intonation pattern as Hav'-a-su'-pie, but it would be good to have some confirmation of this (or a reasonable refutation).

In northern Arizona, an area loaded with kokopelli figures, it is pronounced "cocoa pelli." Carptrash 23:18, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Coco-PAY-LAY or Kanacha-PAY-LAY. It depends tribe to tribe. Tredcloud (talk) 16:04, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Ancient astronaut theories

A User:Iantresman added an ancient astronaut theory linking Kokopelli to paintings from Australia[1]. I don't know whether this has any real provenance or is entirely original (it's bunk either way), but I've made its background explicit. If anyone wants to remove it entirely, I won't object. —E. Underwood 17:55, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It seems to me that when the words "might" and "perhaps" are BOTH used in the same sentence that a pretty strong argument can be made that the whole sentence should go. I'll second Underwood's emotion, but am willing to hang in here a bit and allow the original author a chance to rebutt. Carptrash 21:18, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

You know, I wouldn't take the theories out, if there was a posted reference to someone publishing this theory of 'ancient astronauts' and comparing the Australian images with Kokopelli. As I understand it, it's Wikipedia's place to report (without much bias) this kind of stuff. If there is a published proof that SOMEONE has theorized this, I thinkw e ought to report the reference. 11:49, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

well . . .. waiting is fine, but notice that we have been waiting since March for more information and none has come forth. Might just be time for a quick Google and if nothing shows - Nurse, hand me the scalple. Carptrash 17:13, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Ho-Chunk?

The article as it stands right now asserts that Kokopelli is a figure in Ho-Chunk mythology. That seems rather incongruous, given that the Ho-Chunk are from Wisconsin and not the southwest. I have heard about this particular (penis = boat) trickster figure in Native Wisconsinite tradition, so I don't doubt that part, but I suspect that this is an erroneous conflation of two similar characters. I don't know enough to go editing this article, though, so I'm just leaving this comment. 15:13, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Kokopelli:which is ancient word transliterated means penis-squash wanders. Koko is a type of indigenous squash that is known amungst many tribes as a phallic symbol. pelli means to wander. So the name means literally wandering penis.

Migration Legend

If memory serves, isn't one of the legends involving mankind's "migration" to the earth from another place among the Hopi concerned with two creatures petitioning Eagle for permission to bring humanity to earth, with the two creatures playing flutes to heal their wounds...and Eagle calling them Kokopelli? I've heard this several times, but as I am not Hopi, I can't attest to whether it is authentic or just Internet crap-fountain... 04:47, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

External links

I'm not sure how this goes..but on Sunday I did some minor editing to the kokopelli page. I added 3 or 4 more names that kokopelli has also been known as, plus I added 2 links to info on kokopelli. Today all edits were deleted......is there anyway to find out why?Kokopelli's Kitchen 04:26, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I deleted the links because it seemed they were to commercial websites. Per Wikipedia:External links, this is permissible only in very specific circumstances. The names seem useful, but they need a source citation per our policy on Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Sorry to spout policy speak at you, but I hope this helps. :) — Amcaja (talk) 05:35, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Brian: Thanks for the quick response. You're right about the external links - I had forgotten about the Amazon stuff for sale at the bottom of the pages. Regarding the other names that kokopelli was known by, they came from 2 sources. One was a book called Kokopelli, Casanova of the Cliff Dwellers by John V. Young. The other was a website dedicated to kokopelli (I don't know why it just occured to me that this could be listed as a fun link) called Koko Kave at http://kokopelli.melhaven.com/Kokopelli's Kitchen 03:19, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

OK, great. Feel free to put those names in the article. You'll notice that Casanova is already listed as a reference. As for the other source, as a self-published website, it doesn't seem to meet our standards of reliable sources, unfortunately. — Amcaja (talk) 04:27, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Another two sources

This might be a good source for this article: http://www.tucsonweekly.com/gbase/Currents/Content?oid=oid%3A41847

Also, in there is the name of a book tracing Kokopelli's origins and flourishing throughout the southwest as an icon. -- 08:58, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

someone is looking for a citation

but I decided to just move it here for now.

Since Kokopelli is the god of fertility (esp. males), it is highly probable that what he is playing is not a flute, but rather a penis. (citation needed)

The words "highly probably" to me suggests the dreaded original research, and/or opinion. To me this sounds like a post-Freudian analysis and it was Sigmund himself who once said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." Likewise, sometimes blowing a flute is just that. Carptrash (talk) 19:21, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

dating - AD vs CE

There is a potential edit war starting about how dates should be used, AD or CE. I found a compromise about the subject that stated "BCE/CE for non-Christian religious topics: " which is what we have here. It also helps if the editors involved in this discussion are registered editors. Carptrash (talk) 17:09, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

or water-loving animals like lizards and insects.

??

frogs and insects ??

lizards sound weird in that line as they ar edry land animals and 'love' water about the same as most of the other dry land animals — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.137.71 (talk) 11:45, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

I am moving this theory

"There is also a theory, which says, that Kokopelli maybe somehow related to hindu god Krishna, becouse there are many similarities, such as the flute, sexual afaires, belonging to the trading cast ect. ."

pending such time as it is referenced and re-written with propper grammar, spelling etc. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 23:42, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

you are not wrong to assume this elder is synonymous with Hindi and Greek culture. His description is very much the same as Pan. This does give some credence although not 100% verified that my culture had trade relations with several, Africa, Greek, Roman, and China. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tredcloud (talk • contribs) 16:21, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• BigKokoCV.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:19, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Influence in Pokemon

As it turns out from the Pokemon Gold/Silver SpaceWorld prototypes, Gamefreak had a scrapped sprite design of Kokopelli that was ultimately reworked into Celebi:

https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver/Sprites/980506#Sprites_300-448 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:41:4301:A0B0:996C:F925:4B3F:323A (talk) 19:04, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Racist White Settler POV

A problem with the majority of pages on this subject, way too eurocentric, imposes artificial commensurability on Indigenous life in a very insensitive and outdated way — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.95.196.44 (talk) 01:00, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Forms in various languages with IPA pronunciation

This article needs some forms of this name given in specific languages, with the IPA pronunciation provided, rather than just a list of 'other names' and an English pronunciation at the top. The lack of such clear provable connection with actual indigenous cultures makes it difficult to discern how trustworthy this article is; it seems like it's at risk of being mostly European folk understanding rather than real info about indigenous beliefs. 67.198.30.42 (talk) 03:14, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes. Etymology of such a name is much needed, as well as IPA representation of the name in a few major local languages. Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 06:17, 10 January 2024 (UTC)