Talk:Kolkata Suburban Railway

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 18:30, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

File:Old and New EMU at Howrah Station .jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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suggestions/issues

• it seems like that article still needs lots of sources to begin with. expand the lead section, and consider whether a list of incidents and achievements is needed at all.  Done
• because it reads like a list of trivia and bullet points, which is not what many GA's are allowed to have  Done
• The lede needs an expansion. One para really doesn't cover it  Done
• acronym (such as EMU), you need to say it in full.  Done
• citations in the lede and Infobox. Does that info not appear in the main prose.  Done
• At the very least, every para needs a citation. Usually, it's every sentence, especially if it is a contentious statement, or a quote.
• lot of WP:OR

(provided by User:Lee Vilenski and User:Epicgenius) ❯❯❯ S A H A 17:49, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

ArnabSaha, the history really needs to be expanded as well. That's one of the major things I noticed. Also, as we talked about with the Kolkata Metro article, avoid using region-specific terms like "lakh" or "crore".

As for commuter railroads that are GANs, take a look at Wikipedia:Good_articles/Engineering_and_technology#Transport. Some of these are about commuter railroads, but they seem to be mostly Norwegian railroads. epicgenius (talk) 18:22, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Epicgenius, ok. thanks a lot. ❯❯❯ S A H A 05:06, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Kolkata Suburban Railway/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Pentagon 2057 (talk · contribs) 11:27, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi, I will be taking up this review. Do leave me a message if you have any queries. Thanks Pentagon 2057 (T/C) 11:27, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Comments

The article is well covered and largely refrenced with suitable illustration, but there are some issues with prose, grammar, and structure. Below are some Issues that would need to be resolved before I can pass the article. Will put it on hold for now. Pentagon 2057 (T/C) 10:31, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

• "part of the passenger railway begun in British India next to Mumbai in the mid-19th century." I think the sentence needs to be fixed, I cannot decipher what it is trying to say.
  • passenger railway 1st started in Mumbai, then Kolkata. This happened during British Raj.
    • I would suggest changing it to "The Kolkata Suburban Railway is part of the second passenger railway constructed in British India during the mid-19th century." as it makes the point clearer
      •  Done @Pentagon 2057: ❯❯❯   S A H A 14:20, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
• "After hundred years of the initial run" I think you mean after?
  • Specifically EMU servicess started after 100 years
• There should be links to Kolkata Metro and the various stations mentioned in the lead.
  •  Done ❯❯❯   S A H A
• The gauge of the track should be mentioned in the lead, alongside construction details.
  •  Done. There arent enough construction details. And construction is not specific for suburban railway. Indian railway does as a whole, not specifically for a system. ❯❯❯   S A H A
• There should be also some mention of India in the first paragraph of the lead as not everyone may know that kolkata is in India.
  •  Done ❯❯❯   S A H A
• Reference needed for second oldest in Asia claim.
  • Removed it. Couldnt find WP:RS.
• "Previously, the Sealdah division was part of the Eastern Bengal Railway before the recategorisation." There is no need to mention both 'Previously' and 'Before the recategorisation'. I would suggest removing 'previously'.
  •  Done ❯❯❯   S A H A
• Is there any recent history? everything here seems to be from ages ago.
  • nothing notable or well documented history. ❯❯❯   S A H A
• "On the other side of the river..." What river?
  • Hooghly river is mentioned in the 1st para in the section. ❯❯❯   S A H A
• Change 'line with a length of xxx km' to 'xxx km line' wherever possible. for example " The 108 km (67 mi) main line starts at Sealdah terminating at Namkhana railway station" "The second expansion is a 5 km (3.1 mi) extension from Kakdwip railway station to Sagar Island"
  •  Done
• Many subsections in the Operations section is written like a guide (Services, Travel classes, availability). Please write it in prose (Tōkaidō Shinkansen can be used as an example). Please also remove the cruft in this section.
  •  Done ❯❯❯   S A H A
• how is 539 million a slight increase from 112 million?
  •  Done ❯❯❯   S A H A
• Smaller sections in the operations sections can be combined together to form a larger section.
  •  Done ❯❯❯   S A H A
• Do mention the number of each type of rolling stock in prose.
  •  Done @Pentagon 2057: ❯❯❯   S A H A 18:42, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
• for the Electrification and gauge subsection, please put the citations at the end of their respective sentences instead of lumping them together at the end of the paragraph.
  •  Done ❯❯❯   S A H A
• What is an Omnibus circuit and a 'reisskilometer'?
  •  Done ❯❯❯   S A H A
• Links in the see also section should not be found in the main article, so in this case remove kolkata metro and List of Kolkata Suburban Railway Stations. I would also suggest moving the see also and further information links in the history section to this section.
  •  Done ❯❯❯   S A H A

@ArnabSaha: second look through the article seems good, but i would need you to clarify when the '25 kV AC traction was found more economical' as it currently just says later, and i cannot find a citation for the track gauge (correct me if i had overlooked it). Besides that the article looks fine and ready for passing. Pentagon 2057 (T/C) 14:55, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

@Pentagon 2057:, citation [9] backs this. ❯❯❯   S A H A 15:08, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

((reply|ArnabSaha}} I think you misunderstood me, the track gauge needs a citation, and i need a specific year for when the 25 kV AC traction was found more economical.

@Pentagon 2057:, sorry my bad. Added the year and added reference for gauge. Broad gauge in India is like universal truth. No other gauge is used (except some tourist railways). ❯❯❯   S A H A 07:32, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Major issues with the article has been cleared up, will be passing the article. Pentagon 2057 (T/C) 08:40, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Amkgp (talk) 15:40, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

EMU rakes of Kolkata Suburban Railway

• ... that Kolkata Suburban Railway (electric multiple units of the system pictured) is the largest suburban railway network in India by track length and number of stations? Source: 10 Suburban Rail Service of India’s Major Cities

• Reviewed: [[]]
• Comment: This is my 4th dyk nomination. So, I didn't do qpq.

Improved to Good Article status by ArnabSaha (talk). Self-nominated at 11:24, 6 September 2020 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting:
• Other problems: - The image needs to be referenced in the hook [e.g. "... that Kolkata Suburban Railway (EMU rakes at Hasnabad station pictured) ..."] or left out

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: - exempt
Overall: Good to go once the hook is amended. IceWelder [✉] 17:01, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

• Customary ping @ArnabSaha, in case they are not watching this page. IceWelder [✉] 11:41, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
  • IceWelder what if the location, Hasnabad is omitted? ❯❯❯   S A H A 11:46, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
    • Sure! My suggestion is just an example to show where the reference would go. IceWelder [✉] 11:50, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
      • IceWelder, If the location is omitted, still citation required?? ❯❯❯   S A H A 11:59, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
        • ArnabSaha, yes. If a picture is present, it needs to be mentioned in the hook. There is always only one picture at a time (compare with the current DYK section on the Main Page).
          • IceWelder. oh. actually i misunderstood. I thought totally different thing. added it now. ❯❯❯   S A H A 12:47, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Good to go now. Cheers, IceWelder [✉] 12:57, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

IceWelder, thanks a lot ❯❯❯   S A H A 13:10, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

• Hi, I came by to promote this, but I find the hook self-promotional and probably not of interest to a global audience. Isn't Kolkata a large city, which would obviously have a large railway system? You have a GA here. Could you select a more colorful fact for the hook? Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 22:04, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

• Yoninah if we compare the tier-1 city sizes, Kolkata has the smallest area. But, the Kolkata suburban railway is 3 times larger than Mumbai suburban rly (which is the oldest, busiest and most popular one). ❯❯❯   S A H A 09:24, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

• That is not clear from the hook. Yoninah (talk) 14:48, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

• Yoninah, so how to clarify that? otherwise, I will try for ALT... ❯❯❯   S A H A 16:30, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

• ALT1: ... that Kolkata, despite being the smallest by area of India's nine A-1 cities, has the country's largest suburban rail system?

• ALT2: ... that Kolkata, despite being the smallest by area of India's nine A-1 cities, has the country's largest suburban rail system (electric multiple units pictured) by track length and number of stations? Source: 10 Suburban Rail Service of India’s Major Cities, Suburban rail systems in India: Can Bengaluru take a leaf from their books?
• Yoninah (the compiled form was suggested by Ovinus Real) ❯❯❯   S A H A 15:37, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

• @ArnabSaha: yes, ALT1 is a good hook. Now you have to add the hook facts to the article, and cite them with reliable sources. BTW the article has a huge tag on it calling for redaction of copyright violations, so it cannot be promoted until that's taken care of. Yoninah (talk) 18:12, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

• @ArnabSaha: A few housekeeping notes: Please don't overwrite existing hooks; it makes it impossible for reviewers and promoters to follow the discussion. If you have a new alt or additions to an old one, please post them at the bottom with a new alt number, like ALT1, ALT2, ALT3, etc. Also, it's not necessary to update the source for a hook in the middle of the review on this template. The refs I asked for should be added to the article. I have restored the thread and posted your new alt as ALT2.
• I saw you added a source to this sentence in the article: Kolkata is the smallest city among the six A-1 cities in terms of area,[13] but the Kolkata Suburban Railway is the largest suburban railway network in India by track length and number of stations. But there is no cite for the fact in the second clause of the sentence, and frankly, putting these facts together without a source that says these facts together looks like WP:SYNTH. I suggest making each clause a separate sentence. Yoninah (talk) 11:03, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Yoninah, Thanks a lot for the information. I have added a single source [14] in the article. Although the source is old. And this is what I could find. ❯❯❯   S A H A 13:06, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you. I separated the facts in the article, but it's fine to combine them in the hook. The new source is from 2018; that seems fine. I can't imagine Mumbai would have added hundreds of stations to meet Kolkata's total since then. Hook refs verified and cited inline. The article speaks of 6 A-1 cities, not 9, so I'm changing that in the hook. I don't recommend using the image, as it is not clear at thumbnail size. Here is the approved hook:
• ALT3: ... that Kolkata, despite being the smallest by area of India's six A-1 cities, has the country's largest suburban rail system by track length and number of stations?
• Rest of review per IceWelder. ALT3 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 14:20, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

• Yoninah Thank you very much. Also the cv revdel is also done. 1 more thing, can we add the image? ❯❯❯   S A H A 18:12, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

• The current image is simply too dark in many places. But you have a very colorful image here:

Howrah railway station

• Yoninah (talk) 18:33, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

• Or maybe this? Because I dont feel Howrah Station will be suitable here. Howrah also caters other long distance/express trains. ❯❯❯   S A H A 19:06, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

electric multiple units of the system

• Again too dark. And it only shows a train, not a station. Yoninah (talk) 19:11, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

• Yoninah, ok then, let's keep howrah station one (or sealdah station one, whichever you feel better).

• The Sealdah station image is colorful but not as interesting as the Howrah station. I would like to update the hook. Can the Howrah station be described as one of the stations of the Kolkata Suburban Railway? Yoninah (talk) 19:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

• Yes, Howrah station is one of the major station in KSR. ❯❯❯   S A H A 08:20, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

* OK, here is the approved hook and image (freely licensed):

Howrah railway station

• ALT3: ... that Kolkata, despite being the smallest by area of India's six A-1 cities, has the country's largest suburban rail system by track length and number of stations (station pictured)? Yoninah (talk) 13:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

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Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

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