Talk:Konjiki no Gash Bell!!

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The Japanese fans deserve to have their own Gash Bell wiki pages (after the drastic changes they did to the original, which make me for one want to puke), and there's nothing wrong with having two versions of the site, with one for the original fans, and one for the fans of the English dub. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Buh6173 (talk • contribs)

This is ridiculous. I was under the impression that this issue was settled a long time ago. English Wikipedia, English names, period. I was fixing what looked like spurious redirects when I found this, so I'm going to stay out of it, but I'm letting you know this. 71.110.2.111 05:37, 17 August 2007 (UTC) (artist formerly known as JuJube)

The thing is, if you look across the web site, you'll find many cases of which the Japanese names are used on English pages (especially One Piece and Death Note), so naturally Gash Bell should be in Jap. But instead, I'm doing both fans a favor by making two different sets of pages for fans of the different versions. Oh, and not to sound too judgemental, but did you ever sit down and watch the original show? Because the dub is an atrocity. It ruins EVERYTHING. The original is an amazing show, whereas the dub destroys everthing the original created.

The dub is fine, but that is neither here nor there. The convention with manga/anime articles is to use the most commonly used English names in printed form, which is why Yu-Gi-Oh character articles use the Japanese names (the English versions of the manga use those). In the case of Zatch Bell, VIZ's English manga uses the names "Zatch", "Tia", "mamodo", etc. All the edits in the dub are based on Standards and Practices concerns considering it's aimed for a children's audience. Read WP:POINT, please. 71.110.2.111 21:11, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd love to go into how awful the dub is, but that's not the point right now. What do you suppose happend when names written in English as Zolo and Siddoh are written on Wiki as Zoro and Shidoh? Not all of Wiki has been "Americanized" as you please. Besides, what's wrong with having a set of pages with original names and whatnot as long as we don't screw with your precious English version? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Buh6173 (talk • contribs) 03:27, August 21, 2007 (UTC).

What happened? Try reading the talk page to find out what happened. "Zatch Bell" gets 550K Google hits compared to "Gash Bell"'s 384K. Since you have obviously gotten emotional anyway, this discussion is over. 71.110.2.111 16:59, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Look, I'm not a user or anything but I just want to offer my idea. I think that you should merge the two pages, but keep the original spellings in the new page, just redirect people from Zatch Bell to Konjiki no Gash Bell. To make this fair all you'd have to do is add a part about changes in the english version, like how Gash becomes Zatch and other things like that. I'm sure I've seen this with other articles here, and I see no reason why this on should be so contradictory when the One Piece page, as stated above, manages to get along in peace despite being even more popular then Gash Bell. I say take a leaf outta their book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.173.107.52 (talk) 22:10, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

:-D I agree with this guy here.

Small problem with that is that having this page as the primary on would be a clear violation of WP:UE. There may be some valid reason to use a japanse title as an article title but hating the dub is not one of them. --67.68.152.197 07:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Fine, here's a valid reason: NONE OF THE NAMES ARE THE SAME. THEY CHANGED ALL THE NAMES. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Buh6173 (talk • contribs) 05:22, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

While that is true there is no wikipedia guildine that supports that line of reasoning. Existing criteria such as WP:UE as well as WP:COMMONNAME support using Zatch Bell! over the original title since its english and the average user is more likely to know the series under that name. Besides the Zatch Bell article has the Japanese names listed already meaning that argument is without any merit. --70.48.108.244 01:42, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

That's not for any one person to say; one could say there's just as many fans of the Jap version as the Eng version (especially considering that in Japan it's an extremely popular show while here it's just "OK"). But that's besides the point. This article does NOT use the Japanese names (well it does, but beneath the English names). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Buh6173 (talk • contribs) 03:48, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, I don't follow the English dub, but to my knowledge there is a precedent: Card Captor Sakura and Cardcaptors have different Wikipedia entries. I'm sure if the fact that there is a large difference between both versions is highlighted in both entries, then there's probably a fair case for having them separate. -- Skoban 17:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with that guy. Though, for the moment, I would like to announce everything wrong with your dub that you hold so high:

• Billions upon billions of horrendous name changes
• Ridiculous violence edits (such as a big flash of light when Kiyomaro BONKS GASH ON THE FXCKING HEAD)
• Removal of blood
• Turning Big Boing into "Lady Susan"
• Completely ruining Folgore
• Removing all of the BGM
• Removing the amazing opening and closing themes and replacing them with shxtastic techno bullcrxp
• Removing any sources of nudity (badly, by the way)
• Removing any Japanese sung songs
• Giving all the characters stereotypical accents
• Stupid language
• Making all of the voices sound completely non-serious
• Casting Jimmy Neutron as Gash —Preceding unsigned comment added by Buh6173 (talk • contribs) 01:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that these are stong enough reasons not to use the english title especially if you are trying to use Card Captors as an example. Card "capotors" removed multiple episodes as well as removed entire subplots such as remoance etc. Not to mention that DVD's under the original title has also been released. Judgeing by your list I assume that there are not changes on that level or they would have been mentioned by now. Can you offer any significant storyline differences becasue that is the only way I can see this argument being successful. To finish I am not aware of any amime having seperate articles for music voice or content edits. There need to be someting more siginifcant than that. --69.156.207.13 19:37, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, lets see...in the original, Sherry was going to commit suicide. In the dub, she "SLIPS".

In the original, Folgore is a pervert. In the dub, he says "HEY GIMME A KISS."

Wonlei is supposed to be imapaled, causing him to die, but is saved in the nick of time by Tio and Megumi. In the dub, he gets "POKED" by Demoruto (OOPS I MEAN DEMOLT).

Those enough plot differences for you?

Konjiki no Gash Bell!! and Zatch Bell! do not require seperate pages. The only page that should exist is Zatch Bell!, with somewhere on the page making note of the edits, as is done with other anime which have been "slaughtered" in localisation. The Digimon Tamers, One Piece, and Naruto pages each show how such changes can be noted. Name changing and the toning down or removal of potentially "hard hitting" events is hardly new to anime when localised for a young audience, but does not significantly alter the plot. An example of a plot change would be Robotech.--Thepinksuicidallemming 04:13, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually with One Piece, it uses ALL Jap names (with notes of English names). The same should be done with Gash. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Buh6173 (talk • contribs) 00:27, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

...you know, I don't even know why we're having this argument. It is a known fact that the dub is an unredeemable piece of horseshxt that could never be viewed as remotely watchable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Buh6173 (talk • contribs) 00:04, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

That's your opinion. The reason (from my point of view) that everything is in dubbed version is because not everyone out there is "anime-savvy" so to speak. If some 12 year old comes on wikipedia to look at some stuff about Zatch Bell, and then it comes up with Gash Berru, then there will obviously be some sort of confusion. -XxKibaxX Talk 16:15, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Well the thing is, he wouldn't be looking for "Zatch" Bell, because, like I said, it is an unredeemable pile of horseshit. Instead, he might be looking it up to see how awful it is, come across Gash Bell, and realize just how beautiful the show really was before it was completely destroyed by America. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Buh6173 (talk • contribs) 18:10, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

See, that is YOUR opinion, and, judging by this talk page, not the general consensus at all. There are many people out there that really couldn't care less that it was dubbed badly, and you severely brought this discussion off the topic. I think it's been agreed on that this page has no reason to exist, and should redirect/merge with Zatch Bell!. Also, I am not interested in starting any sort of heated debate with you, I'm simply throwing my opinion in. -XxKibaxX Talk 18:33, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

If anything, it should be the other way around. And I'm not giving my opinion. It's a god damn fact. If you can give me ANYTHING in which the dub is not completely awful, then maybe I'll listen. But it's not. It's the worst dub ever. Well...maybe not as bad as One Piece, but it's up there. Oh, and the reason I deleted the Z page was because YOU DELETED THE GASH PAGE. In other words, you pretty much declared war. All I did was respond in the same immature way as you did. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Buh6173 (talk • contribs) 19:27, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

WP:NPOV anyone? Your unilateral changes will no longer be accepted. I'm reverting all this nonsense right now. You're the only person who agrees with you in this issue. You should also be aware that you stopped being civil a long time ago and you've been reported to the incidents noticeboard. Behave. JuJube 20:07, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Well let's see...209.173.107.52 agreed with me, and Skoban agreed with me. Oh, and you just proved my previous point of immaturingly going off and deleting pages unnneccessarily. I'll leave the Z page alone, just leave the Gash page alone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Buh6173 (talk • contribs) 20:47, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

An anonymous user who may or may not be you agreed, and Skoban did not agree, merely said there was precedent. Cardcaptors and Zatch Bell don't even compare. Zatch Bell does not have changed characters, altered storyline or skipped episodes. You're in violation of a few policies, most prominently WP:OWN, by telling other editors to leave "your" pages alone, plus you resort to namecalling when you don't get your way. Stop. If you want to state your case, do so in the incidents page. Until then, I'm still reverting, as I see your changes as vandalism. JuJube 21:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Dub vs. original

Fix RFCxxx template - remove "!" character from reason. DMcMPO11AAUK/Talk/Contribs 04:09, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Debate over whether the differences between Zatch Bell! and the Japanese original are sufficient to warrant separate pages for each series.

There seems to be an impasse here that requires intervention. JuJube 21:40, 8 October 2007 (UTC)