Talk:Lacto vegetarianism

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Dubious

"Consuming dairy products does not involve killing animals when managed properly." Is this true, or can this be verified? I was under the impression that it is common practise to send bull calves to slaughter, plus of course there is the ethical concern of separating the mother from her calf shortly after birth [1]. nirvana2013 (talk) 11:46, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I imagine that this is the practice in many commercial farms, but it is possible to run dairy farms without this[2]. Traditionally the bulls are used as oxen to help with the other farming, and the calves are allowed time with the mother. A well looked after cow in good health will produce more milk than is required purely to raise her calves. Gouranga(UK) (talk) 10:48, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

God's values are hard to reference

Because all living beings are equally valued by God, vegetarian diet rooted in ahimsa is only one aspect of environmentally conscious living, relating to those beings affected by our need for food. Sharing the same common reason, environmentalism and vegetarianism often walk hand in hand.

The above recent edit by Atmapuri is totally flawed and unreferenced. "all living beings are equally valued by God" would certainly need a reference. Neither environmentalism nor vegetarianism have hands, so claiming that they walk hand-in-hand is bizarre and unreferenced. All this edit may be entirely true, but as it is presented it is simply POV. It could be rephrased and referenced if ahimsa is the rationale for vegetarianism with a reference, and if there is some reference that vegetarianism and environmentalism are related because of ahimsa. Bob98133 (talk) 13:33, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Reference was added per your request. Did not find the actual verse yet, but I think the current reference explains things very much in depth. Atmapuri (talk) 19:22, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Is there concensus that the Hindu Vedas are the word of God? Do editors agree that the reasons for lacto-vegetarianism and environmentalism are the same? Is there a reference that they are practised together? Are all Hindu's environmentalists? Are enough environmentalists to state that these are "often" practiced together? Is there a reference that Jainism is more strict? What does wasteage of food have to do with the subject? Bob98133 (talk) 13:23, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Lacto-vegetarianism comes from Hinduism. The word of God is mentioned in the clear context of Hinduism and not as a general statement. You can find reference that Jainism is more strict in the same reference. About environmentalism, there are references, you can help to find. Wastage of food was originally obesity (but was modified by one editor) and that is in fact considered a sin Hinduism. Atmapuri (talk) 13:48, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

The reference you use to support this entire ph does not support the things you have written. The section on Animals as a Source of Food is clear that meat eating was not forbidden and only mentions not eating animals in the context that Jains tried to encourage other snot to eat animals. Apparently you made the rest of this up. It may be true, but you'll need real references that are specific to the content you are including. Bob98133 (talk) 14:44, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

The reference properly supports the content, if you read through it. You can also do something about references to article which was originally completely unreferenced. Atmapuri (talk) 15:31, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello. I am wondering if lacto-vegetarians can eat cheese containing animal rennet? Thanks! Armyrifle 02:33, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Lacto-vegetarians only eat cheese containing non-animal rennet. In many countries cheese will be stamped as Suitable for vegetarians if this is the case. Regards, Gouranga(UK) 11:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Armyrifle 18:48, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

eggs equels aggressiveness

"Lacto-vegetarians abstain from specifically eating eggs. Eggs are known to spoil quickly, especially in warm climate. They also contain high concentration of animal hormones meant for the development of a chick embryo, especially testosterone, which is known to increase aggressiveness."

This, at least to me, suggests that eating eggs leads directly to aggressiveness, I don't have access to the reference text but this appears to me to be a little bit "weaselly words", can someone confirm or clean up? Thanks Scott A Herbert (talk) 20:14, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Scott A. (Pls start new talk at bottom of page, or just hit New Section tab when starting a new section.) What you suggest may be true but it would fall under Original Research - WP:OR since you are assuming that there are reliable references that testosterone increases aggression as well as research that concludes that eating eggs leads to increased testosterone. I doubt that this particular connection has been thoroughly studied so unless you can find a good study that reaches this conclusion, it wouldn't fit in the article. Bob98133 (talk) 01:15, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Bob, I'm a bit of a newbie (well new to editing, I've long been a user and an evangelist), so thanks for the hint about starting new topics at the bottom. I'm not suggesting either (thro I think their may be research that testosterone increases aggression), in face I was disputing the statement. As I say I don't have access to the text that was quoted, and so I don't feel I should just rip the statement out the page (Should I?), so I was just asking for clarification. Scott A Herbert (talk) 18:01, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Hello Herbert, the text quoted about eggs and aggressiveness is available on the internet. That part of the book can be read from a preview of the book which is cited as source on amazon. The issue of the dispute here is that this links between hormones, testosterone and aggressiveness have only been established for animals. Nobody has received a grant yet for doing such tests on children. (obviously). The research which disputes these claims was done on adult people, not kids. To give you an idea about proportions (see vegetarianism) one egg contains as much hormones as 1kg of (organic) red meat. If you use hormone treated meat (but still legal), this becomes about 200g.Atmapuri (talk) 20:13, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

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Place of plantmilks

The article seems to be largely (but entirely) definitional, but how have practices and rationales changed following the rise of plantmilks (their excellence and availability)?

Eggs?

Hi Jonathansammy. Do you think the statement is inaccurate? It struck me as being relevant, and in-line with my own understanding of how the word is generally used. The cited Harvard source does mention eggs actually (eight times), but I agree that it doesn't quite support the assertion. A quick Google search found this however: vegetarian diets are often lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets (and therefore frequently taken as being synonymous with "vegetarian diets"). Would you consider reinstating the content supported by that source? Best GirthSummit _(blether) 14:27, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

@Girth Summit:, This page is specifically on Lacto-vegetarianism. What you found can be placed in the article Vegetarianism.Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 14:33, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Jonathansammy, indeed, but that doesn't mean that information about other flavours of vegetarianism must be omitted entirely. There is an assertion to the effect that lacto-vegetarianism is understood to be 'standard' vegetarianism in India; explaining what is considered standard elsewhere seems to me to be relevant and useful context. (I do know a bit about writing articles, you know...) GirthSummit _(blether) 14:39, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

@Girth Summit:, Nobody is doubting your abilities to write an article. Why restrict yourself just at ovo-lacto-.....? For the sake of completion, you should include all other varieties of vegetarianism too. Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 14:47, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Jonathansammy, I don't really understand the point you're making here. There is an assertion about what is understood in India by the word vegetarian; an assertion about what is meant elsewhere is obviously appropriate context. That context was there in the article, but you removed it without explaining why. Will you reinstate it, or do you want me to do it? GirthSummit _(blether) 15:24, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

@Girth Summit: I have relocated sentence regarding definition of lacto-vegetarianism in India to the body.I believe that is a better place than the lede for that definition. Please have a look.Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 15:38, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Jonathansammy, the stuff you added to the body looks good to me. Certainly there should be nothing in the lead which isn't also mentioned in the body. The lead is a bit light though - it might be worth expanding it so that it's a summary of the article, rather than just a definition. Best GirthSummit _(blether) 15:49, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

@Girth Summit: Thanks. Please go ahead with expanding the lead. Best regards.Jonathansammy (talk) 15:59, 14 April 2021 (UTC)