Talk:Leni Riefenstahl/GA2
Latest comment: 9 years ago by Dr. Blofeld in topic GA Review
GA Review
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Reviewer: Dr. Blofeld (talk · contribs) 20:44, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Will review this tomorrow.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:19, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
- Lede
- "Riefenstahl grew up alongside her brother Heinz," -where was this?
- In Germany. I don't know what specific part of Germany, but I'll add in Germany. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 13:54, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- Early life
- "Helene Bertha Amalie Riefenstahl was born on 22 August 1902." -where?
- Again, I'll add in Germany. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 13:54, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- " at the age of twelve joined a gymnastic and swim club." -where?
- I don't know, sorry! Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 13:54, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- Propaganda films
- "This material became Olympia, a hugely successful film which has since been widely noted for its technical and aesthetic achievements.", "Riefenstahl's work on Olympia has been cited as a major influence in modern sports photography", "Olympia was very successful in Germany after it premiered for Hitler's 49th birthday in 1938.". Do we really need to keep saying that it was successful? I think its success should be discussed once, you can easily merge the first two parts.
- I tweaked the sentences in question. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 13:54, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- World War II
- "Her relationship with Hitler severely declined in 1944 when her brother died on the Russian Front." -can you elaborate on what happened?
- As far as I understand, her brother was, like every other able body male, conscripted to serve in the war and was killed. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 13:54, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- Thwarted film projects
- Delink Nazi Germany
- Well spotted, done. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 13:54, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- Death
- " struggling with cancer" -suffering from?
- Views of critics
- I don't think much of this section. It reads like a tribute or quote farm. I'd prefer to see constructive prose discussing her techniques and film making using such quotes to support the writing. There definitely needs to be something discussing her techniques.
- To be honest, I think the section is pretty neutral; there is a lot of criticism and her admiration for Hitler is frequently mentioned as having hampered her career and/or reputation. I'm not sure what kind of changes you want me to do. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 13:54, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- I wasn't questioning the neutrality. I just thought that you can better use the quote material within constructive prose rather than just giving quote examples.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:08, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- @Jonas Vinther: What the good doctor means to say is that he wants you to explain the opinions of the critics (at least some of them) in your own words rather than just copy-paste quotes of what they say. — Ssven2 Speak 2 me 11:36, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- It's OK to use some full quotes but they need to be in some sort of context to provide a coherent encyclopedic overview. There should be a section discussing her filmmaking techniques and acclaim, and in such a context you can then use such quotes to back up the prose. See the Acting style section of Rod Steiger for instance. It provides an argument using quotes but isn't just a random collection of quotes.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:40, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- Ahh, okay, I understand now. I will allow myself to be inspired by Rod Steiger's article and make some changes accordingly as best I can. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 11:59, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- It's OK to use some full quotes but they need to be in some sort of context to provide a coherent encyclopedic overview. There should be a section discussing her filmmaking techniques and acclaim, and in such a context you can then use such quotes to back up the prose. See the Acting style section of Rod Steiger for instance. It provides an argument using quotes but isn't just a random collection of quotes.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:40, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- @Jonas Vinther: What the good doctor means to say is that he wants you to explain the opinions of the critics (at least some of them) in your own words rather than just copy-paste quotes of what they say. — Ssven2 Speak 2 me 11:36, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- I wasn't questioning the neutrality. I just thought that you can better use the quote material within constructive prose rather than just giving quote examples.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:08, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- Film biographies
- You can't really use a copyrighted DVD cover in a biography article.
Good effort User:Jonas Vinther but feels a little rough around the edges. The prose isn't great, in many places it doesn't quite flow as well as it could. It could really use a decent copyedit I think but I think it will be passable once some changes are made.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:37, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks Dr. Blofeld, I will get right onto this once I get back from the gym. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 17:55, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
- Okay Dr. Blofeld, I've responded and made edits according your comments. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 10:12, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Jonas. @We hope: or @Nikkimaria:, can either of you do a quick scan for images. I suspect there's some ones in the article which can't really be used.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:50, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- My 2 cents worth-All seems to be well with the licenses of everything except the infobox photo. I'm not certain it's in the public domain. The photos from the Bundesarchiv were donated to Commons by the archives some time ago and they're in the public domain. The childhood photo is licensed as non free, as is the film poster. We hope (talk) 13:00, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- The childhood photo with her brother was handled by an administrator so I'm confident everything's on the up-and-up regarding the images. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 13:12, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- The questions are about whether or not the licenses the photos have are correct. This looks to be a "family album" type of photo where it was not made public for many years after it was taken. However, I have questions about the infobox photo. It's from the "Iceberg" film of 1933 but it's licensed as being PD because the photographer died more than 70 years ago and we don't seem to have information about that. We hope (talk) 13:19, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- File:WP Leni Riefenstahl by Alexander Binder.jpg The photo by Binder from Commons has information about when Binder died and 1929 is within the 80 years after death stated on the license. We hope (talk) 13:28, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- The questions are about whether or not the licenses the photos have are correct. This looks to be a "family album" type of photo where it was not made public for many years after it was taken. However, I have questions about the infobox photo. It's from the "Iceberg" film of 1933 but it's licensed as being PD because the photographer died more than 70 years ago and we don't seem to have information about that. We hope (talk) 13:19, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- The childhood photo with her brother was handled by an administrator so I'm confident everything's on the up-and-up regarding the images. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 13:12, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
@We hope: Are you really OK with File:Impressionenposter.jpg?♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:28, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- Now I've put on the NFCC hat. ;) I'd say it's not necessary in this article because people are able to understand that she did this film without seeing the poster here. There's an article on the film which has a poster and that article is linked in this article's text. BTW--many, many years ago Time magazine didn't renew some of their earlier copies, so the cover is PD through their failure to do that. I'd suggest switching the infobox photo to the Binder one as I expect at some point this will be on the front page as a new GA if it passes. We hope (talk) 14:33, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
- Is it reasonably well written?
- A. Prose quality:
- B. MoS compliance:
- A. Prose quality:
- Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
- A. References to sources:
- B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
- C. No original research:
- A. References to sources:
- Is it broad in its coverage?
- A. Major aspects:
- B. Focused:
- A. Major aspects:
- Is it neutral?
- Fair representation without bias:
- Fair representation without bias:
- Is it stable?
- No edit wars, etc:
- No edit wars, etc:
- Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
- A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
- B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
- A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
- Overall:
- Pass or Fail:
- Pass or Fail:
Tim riley and myself are in agreement that there's little stopping this being listed as a GA. It's a good article overall Jonas, but I think it would benefit from a good copyedit from somebody and some improvement of the acclaim section to include directing technique analysis and to read more like an encyclopedia. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:45, 21 September 2015 (UTC)