Talk:Liber OZ

Arbitrary heading

I've just stated this entry. References will follow shortly - please don't delete! Harbard the Ancient (talk) 19:00, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Took off the "unreferenced" tag - hope that's ok.Harbard the Ancient (talk) 21:16, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Bulked up the page a bit with extra information. FUTURI (talk) 02:10, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 talk 14:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that in 1941 Aleister Crowley issued a manifesto of human rights which included the controversial assertion of the right to commit tyrannicide?

• Source: Crowley, Aleister; et. al. (2004) [1997]. "Editor's note to p. 689 Appendix VIII". In Hymenaeus Beta (ed.). Magick: Liber ABA, Book 4, parts I-IV (2nd. rev. ed.). York Beach, Maine: S. Weiser. p. 788: "[...] but I've got them down to five sections: moral, bodily, mental, sexual freedom, and the safeguard tyrannicide [...]".

Source2: Readdy, K. (2018). One Truth and One Spirit: Aleister Crowley's Spiritual Legacy. United States: Ibis Press, p 46. "The most controversial phrase appears at the end: '...' implying a safeguard against tyranny and oppression, lest these rights not be recognized for all."

• Reviewed:

5x expanded by Skyerise (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Skyerise (talk) 11:23, 15 July 2024 (UTC).

• Comment only – the hook is falling foul of WP:EGG. The link to tyrannicide should point to tyrannicide the way this is written. Schwede66 04:19, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

  Point taken, I revised it. Skyerise (talk) 10:44, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

• @Skyerise: I'm reviewing this. The article seems mostly good but I was concerned if you were relying on Crowley's primary source for the hook fact. However, it is Hymenaeus Beta's note that stated Liber OZ has the "controversial" assertion of the right to commit tyrannicide, right? I was wondering if HB actually used the word controversial in the writing; otherwise we'd probably need to remove the word from the hook. BorgQueen (talk) 01:39, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

  @BorgQueen: oops, I'd meant to have both Readdy and HB. Added the quote from Readdy above. It's Readdy that calls it controversial, and HB that confirms Crowley himself called it a "safeguard", this is not just an interpretation made by his biographers. Skyerise (talk) 02:30, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: I don't know how well the subject matter will be received by those unfamiliar with Crowley or the occult in general, but the nomination meets the DYK requirements. BorgQueen (talk) 02:58, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Safeguard tyrannicide

Someone changed this heading, but this is the author's stated intent. quoted in the last paragraph of the history section. We would need sources that show that he intended it to be applied more generally than he stated, or that his modern-day followers interpret it more broadly, to change the heading. I am open to this change, just so long as the necessary text and citations needed to support the new heading are provided. Skyerise (talk) 08:46, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Article is far too long for subject

The entirety of Liber OZ is shorter than this article's "summary" of it. Mosi Nuru (talk) 17:25, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

@Mosi Nuru: That's your opinion. Most of the length is due to giving the historical context, which is essential. Also, when two editors disagree, policy says the article stays as it was. See WP:BRD. If you make a bold edit, and are reverted, then unless there is a consensus for change, the article is maintained as is was. You are also not permitted to canvass other editors to build a consensus, but typically must wait for editors already watching the article to respond. I get that you apparently don't like the topic, but you are only here to hound me due to a disagreement elsewhere. And as you have been informed, that's prohibited behavior which interfere with the work of other editors. Skyerise (talk) 20:33, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

"you are only here to hound me due to a disagreement elsewhere" - I wish you would stop accusing me of bad faith, it does not help the make the article better.

WP:AGF Mosi Nuru (talk) 20:34, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Headings

The headings follow the categories from Crowley's own description, quoted at the end of the history section: ""five sections: moral, bodily, mental, sexual, and the safeguard tyrannicide...". If you want to change them, you must show a consensus to do so. Thanks. Skyerise (talk) 20:56, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

@Scyrme: @Randy Kryn:: your thoughts on the several ill-considered edits and comments from a relatively new editor above? Skyerise (talk) 00:08, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not aware enough of the topic in order to have an opinion. Thanks for the ping. Randy Kryn (talk) 00:30, 18 July 2024 (UTC)