Talk:List of Academy Award nominees presented under false names

Pierre Boulle

Pierre Boulle's win for Bridge on the River Kwai should be mentioned as well, since he didn't even speak English. Another cover for blacklisted writers. Girolamo Savonarola 17:20, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Apparently, the Pierre Boulle Academy Award win for Bridge on the River Kwai has already been added to the article ... presumably after you posted your suggestion. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 14:51, 9 July 2008 (UTC))

Rename

The AfD seems to be pointing, for obvious reasons, towards a rename.

I have no idea what to rename the page, but here are the problems as I see them:

• Fictitious nominees could imply fictional characters who have been nominated for an AA.
• The page includes:
  • 1 fictional character that was actually nominated for an award.
  • At least 2 real people who covered for blacklisted writers.
  • Fictional names used by a real person or real people.
• You'd have to cover all of the above without openning the list up to people working under stage names.

Any ideas? Duggy 1138 (talk) 08:14, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

It is somewhat difficult to encapsulate all of the various scenarios outlined in the article (and delineated in the post above). The basic gist of the article (I think) is that the name of the nominee (under which the Academy Award was presented or nominated) was different than the name of the artist who actually performed the nominated work. I believe that statement covers all three of the scenarios outlined above by Duggy. It certainly covers scenario 2 and 3 ... and it arguably covers scenario 1 as well. (Scenario 1 constitutes a weaker argument, but nonetheless a valid argument, I believe.) Thus, the "fictitious" adjective is essentially a description of the name, not the person / nominee (excepting Donald Kaufman, in which case it is both). In renaming the article, then, we need to focus on the name of the nominee and not on the nominee himself. Thinking out loud ... do any of the following work?

• List of Academy Award nominations presented under false names
• List of Academy Award nominations presented under fictitious names
• List of Academy Award nominations presented under pseudonyms

I am not sure if any one of these three suggestions is perfect, but perhaps they can be tweaked. First, is a nomination actually "presented" or is there a better verb? Second, these would all seem to be false names (I think?) ... but are they also fictitious names or pseudonyms? These are my two cents at the moment. Any feedback? Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 14:39, 9 July 2008 (UTC))

"List of Academy Award nominations presented under..." to me implies winners only (although the wording is a little ackward so it could me the present was using a false name.

"false names sounds wrong to me. Sounds like the person gave a false name to a police officer. I can't see anything technically wrong with it, though.

"fictitious names" doesn't cover the real people who got awards on someone else's behalf.

"pseudonyms" I feel is in danger of covering stage names. It may not, but I think that people will make that assumption and visit or edit the page on that basis.

I like the word "real" or "actual" in there. "List of actual Acadmey Award nominees nominated under false names." No, I'm not happy with that, but the actual or real names solves one of the problems.

Duggy 1138 (talk) 12:49, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Sources

Since much (but not all) of the information in this article can be found at oscars.org, that site should be listed as a source or reference or external link. I am not very good with formatting sources, references, and external links. So, if anyone would like to add oscars.org under the appropriate categorization, that would be great. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 14:47, 9 July 2008 (UTC))

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Academy Awards which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 13:19, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 29 May 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to List of Academy Award nominees presented under false names per consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bradv 03:28, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

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List of fictitious Academy Award winners and nominees → List of pseudonymous Academy Award winners and nominees – At AFD Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of fictitious Academy Award winners and nominees, I proposed to move this article. The rationale was "these are real winners who didn't win under their own name", so they are pseudonymous not fictitious. There was some support at the AFD for this idea:

• Before the move was proposed one editor agreed that the current page name is inappropriate, but did not suggest a new name
• Two !voters who weighed in after the move was proposed agreed with the move and the new name.

"Pseudonymous" is a long word and can be difficult to spell or even say. Maybe it would be better to move the article to something else that avoided using it. Nevertheless, until a better alternative title is suggested, I proposed to move this article as indicated above. Vadder (talk) 19:21, 29 May 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. Dekimasuよ! 21:04, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

• Support until a better name emerges. Per nom. Have been thinking about this for several minutes, and re-read the list twice, still can't come up with anything more accurate. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:51, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
• Perhaps List of falsely named Academy Award nominees would be better, as more generic. Donald Kaufman actually is fictitious. Pierre Boulle and Ian McLellan Hunter were both real writers who were fronts for other writers, not strictly pseudonyms. If not, support as nominated as an improvement on the current name. Station1 (talk) 05:17, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

I appreciate your point that "falsely named" covers some ground that "pseudonymous" does not, but I'm worried that it may also suggest that the win or nomination was false, as in the hypothetical statement, "La La Land was falsely named the winner at the 89th Academy Awards before the error was corrected." In the cases covered on this page, the win or nomination really happened but was attributed in some way that was not completely true. Vadder (talk) 19:18, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, it occurred to me too that it is slightly ambiguous in that sense (maybe "falsely-named" should be hyphenated), but I think "incorrectly named" or "mistakenly named" would be more likely used for a case like La La Land. On the flip side, "pseudonymous" could theoretically apply to every actor using a stage name; John Wayne might end up on the list. In a previous section, someone suggested List of Academy Award nominations presented under false names. I can't think of a perfect solution. Station1 (talk) 23:07, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

I prefer the last suggestion since there is less of a possibility for ambiguity.--76.65.41.59 (talk) 22:26, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Agree, List of Academy Award nominations presented under false names, that seems like a good one. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:14, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

List of Academy Award nominations presented under false names is a good idea. I think I now prefer it to my original proposal. Vadder (talk) 16:29, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

• I was about to close this, but I'll add a nitpick instead: it should be List of Academy Award nominees presented under false names; it is nominees who are presented under false names, not nominations. Randy Kryn, Vadder, what do you say? No such user (talk) 10:50, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
  • also pinging Station1 No such user (talk) 10:51, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
    • Agreed because, you, sir, are a wordsmith. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:51, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
    • Agreed. Nominees is better. Thank you for the suggestion! Vadder (talk) 15:43, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
    • I also agree. Good catch! Station1 (talk) 17:42, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
      • I would go with that.--76.65.41.59 (talk) 21:02, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.