Talk:List of English flags/Archive 1

Archive 1

Dorset flag

This is disputed. It is not the flag of Dorset, it is an invention by one person. The commerically available flag does not look like this. See Flag of Dorset White43 (talk) 11:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Layout Problems?

Is there something wrong with the coding of this page? The regional flags appear under the Historical section, though in the edit page, they are displayed under the correct heading. Dancingwombatsrule (talk) 17:36, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Looks like a - where there should have been a }. Sorted now. Martocticvs (talk) 17:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! That really confused me why it was doing it when I read the edit page. Dancingwombatsrule (talk) 18:41, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Lancashire Flag:

There are moves afoot to change the Lancashire flag to have a Yellow background because the rose on white is too similar to The Scottish town of Montrose flag (already a registered flag). Just mentioning this so someone looking after these pages might want to keep abreast of the change. See http://www.flaginstitute.org/index.php?location=10&flagtype=county&flagid=108 Cadstar_User (talk) 10:34, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

pre-Tudor flags & banners of arms

I'm looking for them, especially for the navy. Have you any resource to look upon? Thanks! Sceptik (talk) 05:18, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

More flags

I have uploaded (albeit a while ago) some more English county flags, the majority of which I'd hazard are unofficial. If anyone would care to check them out, just to save the hassle of me adding them to the list without any sort of go-ahead and just having them removed, you can find them on my user page here (icon form).
Thanks,
Ը२ձւե๓ձռ¹⁷ 22:54, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Official?

Can someone explain the use of the word official in regard to some of the flags? To me this implies some sort of recognition in law. I do not believe the Flag Institute has been given this authority by either the monarch or her government. EnglishFlags (talk) 14:17, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Seconded - registry at the Flag Institute does not deem a flag 'official'. They are simply an organisation and a flag registry and have no authority to make a flag official. I suggest removal of these 'official' tags, but it would be worth pointing out the entries which are registered at the FI - as some are not. Those that are, have usually been selected as a county flag by a public vote, competition or they are ancient in design - with the lack of a Flag Act - registry at the FI is about as close as officialdom as you will get. 80.195.146.94 (talk) 12:45, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

I have removed the official tags from these except for three - Herts, Middlesex and Northumberland - which where all designed by the College of Arms - deeming them official. I have added asterisks to those which are registered at the Flag Institute. This then falls in line with the opening paragraphs. White43 (talk) 11:39, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Standard of England

This flag is a banner of arms comprising of the shield of the Royal Arms of England; such banners displays the basic coat of arms only. A banner is not independent of the coat of arms. To say this banner was consigned to history is to say the coat of arms was too. And yet we see the Royal Arms of England in use today on the pound coin for example. In addition, the monarch’s own website states it is an Royal emblem of England: “the shield shows the various Royal emblems of different parts of the United Kingdom: the three lions of England”. [1]

Further, it has been suggested that the Coat of Arms of England quartered with the Royal Standard of France somehow supplanted this banner. This too is false. Both flags were carried in funeral processions of Queens Mary [2] and Elizabeth I. Pmsmythe (talk) 21:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

I have found the reference to Elizabeth I funeral: "flags borne at the obsequies of Queen Elizabeth I — the great embroidered banner of England", Flags of the world, Harold Gresham Carr, Frederick Edward Hulme. The banner was in use 2 centuries later that the article claimed! Pmsmythe (talk) 17:03, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have a reference stating the banner (and hence the Arms) is no longer a Royal emblem? Pmsmythe (talk) 17:34, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Just had a look at my copy of Boutell's, admitably old 1863, which states: "Since the time of Henry II the three golden lions upon a red field have always been held to be the Royal Arms of England ... [they] have been, as they still are, the "three lions of England." ". I doubt anyone would agree with Boutell's not being regarded as a reliable source. Pmsmythe (talk) 19:11, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

That is a long was from saying that a flag of those three lions was official. This article is about flags. Gules three lions passant regardant in pale represents the former Kingdom of England, as Boutell says. He never mentions a flag. The three lions can be said to symbolise England and Wales.

The use of historical banners at a monarch's funeral is known (as in the example you found from the funeral of Queen Mary II). At the funeral of Queen Elizabeth I, of which a picture exists, a long series of banners was borne of the queen's ancestors. The three lions appear, impaled with the arms of Angoulême, to represent King John.

If nevertheless we accept the use of the banner at Queen Mary's funeral as an official acknowledgement, it was done away with eleven years later when the Kingdom of England came to an end, replaced by the Kingdom of Great Britain. You will not find any offical use thereafter, unless in a purely historical parade.

There will be nineteenth / early twentieth century books referring to the "Royal Standard of England"; it was then commonplace to say "England" to mean "the United Kingdom".

I suspect that this anxiety to assert some phantom official status for the three-lions banner is a reaction to the actual official status of the Lion Banner in Scotland. If the Lion is in official use, why not England's and Wales's equivalent? The answer is that the law of arms in Scotland is different from the law of arms elsewhere in the kingdom. In Scotland a servant may bear his lord's arms, which would seem shocking to an English herald. Thus in Scotland certain high officials may bear a royal banner (the Lion in that case, preserved for that purpose only). In England only the Queen herself may bear royal arms, and the Queen does not in any circumstance fly a mere quartering of her arms.

Howard Alexander (talk) 21:25, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Flag of Bucks

The flag of Bucks here is not that which is flown in Aylesbury outside the county offices. The county flag does not have the Whiteleaf cross on it which only appears on the shield in the coat of arms. The flag has only the swan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.202.72 (talk) 01:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Buckinghamshire County Council has a private flag, which appears to be what you are referring to. It is a banner of the Council's arms. It is not a county flag as no one but the Council may use it - the right to display it is private property. No county flag has yet been accepted locally, let alone registered with the Flag Institute. Howard Alexander (talk) 19:55, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

This is a county flag. Registering with the FI does not 'legitimise' a flag. A CC or UA does not have the authority to approve a county flag. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.78.11.154 (talk) 21:32, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Flag of Northamptonshire

Following a discussion at Talk:Northamptonshire, I'm pretty sure that File:County Flag of Northamptonshire.png and File:Northamptonshire.gif are inaccurate as the county flags. That design doesn't seem to appear in reliable sources, and the website that it was sourced from is a very fringe nationalist (pro-BNP) website. That isn't proof their design is incorrect, but it does make them a questionable source. I will probably nominate the images for deletion at Commons if no RS is forthcoming. As the image's use on this page is unreferenced, I am withdrawing it here too. But if it can be supported by reliable sources, that would be good too! TheGrappler (talk) 23:26, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

The DCLG is currently flying a different county flag outside its main HQ each week, norfolk is due next week and northamptonshire the following week. This should provide a reliable source for the flag when it is actually flown. Also it appears to be a banner of the county council coat of arms. we should leave it on commons for the next few weeks to give time foo more RSs to be found. http://www.flickr.com/photos/communitiesuk Dn9ahx (talk) 00:47, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

The flag used at DCLG was this one, and it's clearly a "county council" flag, not a council flag. It's easy to see how the purported flag relates to the arms used by the county council, but that doesn't mean the purported flag is correct. When I used a google image search the only times I found the purported flag being used, was when people were just copying Wikipedia. Neither the Flag Institute nor Flags of The World list a Northamptonshire flag. As it stands, the purported flag is "feasible" (which probably explains why it's been used for so long, despite readers commenting at Talk:Northamptonshire that they'd never seen it before) but clearly the source it's based on is not reliable. TheGrappler (talk) 13:53, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Summary

This article needs to be converted to summary style using templates {{Begin flag gallery}}, {{Flag entry}} and {{End flag gallery}} as has been done in Flags of the U.S. states. MRSC (talk) 04:57, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

yorkshire flags

you have the flag of my county south yorkshire here aswell as the old flags of the former ridings and the flag of the entire ceremonial county itself but its curious that you dont the flags from the north, west, and east riding (current)

any reason for this cos if not i think they should be added, they were chosen by their countys and registered at the flag institute and like the south yorkshire flag is are occasionally used

Tony Spike (talk) 22:04, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

BBC article on county flags

May be of interest -- BBC News - Flying the county flag: The preservation of an identity 20 April 2014 ... -- AnonMoos (talk) 15:29, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

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