Talk:List of Hollows in Bleach/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Expanding the article's introduction section

Following the guidelines laid out in WP:LEAD/the example of various featured lists, I'm trying to expand the lead. Something like this is a possible structure:

• an introductory paragraph on normal hollows, establishing their notability
• a short paragraph on variants of hollow and their significance/appearance in the series.

If anybody has suggestions on what to include/leave out, add them here, or, of course, directly to the article. Suki Dakara 02:04, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

The problem of this article is that it does not pass WP:Notability. It needs reviews like the ones from List of Bleach characters to make a reception section (but focused on these characters).Tintor2 (talk) 02:10, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this is true. I'll have a quick look around and dump some links here for later. There's the Jump poll that Ulquiorra and Grimmjow ranked in for "reception" starters, I suppose. I'm mainly focusing on the lead for now so I probably won't be doing any major restructuring of the article as a whole, but I've created a Reception section anyhow. Suki Dakara 02:29, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Done, for moment. Look below and use as you will. Suki Dakara 05:09, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Reception links?

Some external links I've managed to find that I'll put here: not all of them are that great, but they're a start. Please incorporate into the article + the reception section if possible. And of course, add more if/when you find them.

• Ulquiorra, 3751 votes, 10th place, in the Fourth Bleach Popularity contest, chapter 307, which is in Volume 35 (ISBN 978-4-08-874575-6) but IDK if that volume has the poll, and if so, what page number. Also IDK that chapter's Jump issue ISBN.
• Grimmjow, 4987 votes, 4th place, chapter 307.
• "it's very difficult to take a book seriously when one of its main characters is named "Grimmjow Jeager-Jacques", but damned if this book doesn't pull it off." - IGN [1]
• "the concept of the arrancars and their plan is fairly interesting. - IGN " [2]
• "an appearance at the very end with Yammy and Ulquiorra in a scene that is certainly foreboding, though perhaps a bit too melodramatic." - IGN [3]
• "I get the feeling that Ulquirria's character flaw is hubris." - IGN [4]
• "Yammy is your stereotypical, muscle-bound anime villain, and Ulquiorra looks like L from Death Note, with a bone hat and some emo makeup." - IGN [5]
• "Even Ichigo is put to task against the most psycho of them all – Grimmjow!" - ActiveAnime [6]
• "There is another kind of hollow in this series, which rarely shows itself and is comprised of hundreds of hollows called a Minos Grande, a very powerful opponent if crossed." - ActiveAnime [7]
• "Tite Kubo's grasp of character and storytelling make Bleach stand out: the Hollow that attacks Ichigo's classmate Orihime is not just the average monster of the week, but one with strong emotional ties to its victim." - Anime News Network [8]
• A Nel Tu action figure. (Other media) - Anime News Network [9]
• "Even the showdown between Ichigo and Grimmjow, which should have been the headliner, comes to an abrupt stop." - Anime News Network [10]
• "Even Ichigo vs. Grimmjow is a lumbering, inelegant mess" - Anime News Network [11]
• "All of the hollows that turn up in this first volume look rubbish ... Why fallen souls look so pants is beyond me, as is the reason why one of them can spit exploding leeches, but the idea behind them is relatively interesting even if they are poorly realised." - Animetion [12]
• "Some of the Hollows look like the misshapen fossils of unsuccessful dinosaurs." - Los Angeles Times [13] --Suki Dakara 05:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Went ahead myself and wrote a three-paragraph Reception section integrating the most appropriate of these links. --Suki Dakara 23:12, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Nice work. Still, the citations need to be cite web format.Tintor2 (talk) 23:45, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Yeah, I got lazy with the last lot of citations. Formatted them all now. --Suki Dakara 03:56, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Espada listed according to rank; Yammy = 0

This probably has been brought up but since I can't find any mention of it, I'll set up discussion here. Basically, since the Espada sections are listed in order of rank, shouldn't we move Yammy up above Starrk? Whilst Yammy does say in that chapter (Ch. 354 in Shounen Jump) that his rank changes when he releases, he also says the Espada rankings go from 0 to 9, not 1 to 10. Therefore, it seems fairly clear that Yammy comes first. Is there a reason this change hasn't already been implemented? --Suki Dakara 22:06, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Separating pages once again

Of the reception info linked a few posts above, a lot seems geared towards Grimmjow. Thoughts on reviving the old Grimmjow page and adding this reception stuff to it? 207.80.142.5 (talk) 15:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Tia Harribel's death not confirmed

Yes, she was sliced by Aizan, but so was Ichigo when Aizan betrayed Soul Society, and Koga (the Bount) was sliced by Hitsugaya, AND Ichinose by Zaraki, and they were all presumed dead but survived. Heck, Ichigo survived getting 3/4 of his chest removed by Ulquiorra and Grimmjow's still alive ater being beaten up by Ichigo and Nnoitra, so Tia might not be dead. 142.26.194.190 (talk) 14:57, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Starrk

Some notes on Starrk from corrections made to the entry.

- Starrk and Lylynette are one being. Lylynette is not a fracción.

- Starrk was not a Menos at the time of meeting Aizen.

- Starrk and Lylynette were both Arrancars before meeting Aizen. This is visually clear in chapter 475.

- Starrk and Lylynette do not remember what the hollow they split from was called or which of them (if either) it resembled.

I dont think any of these can seriously be disputed based on 473-475.

174.46.28.58 (talk) 21:13, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Barragan a vasto lorde?

The reason I'm asking is because while describing the vasto lordes Hitsugaya says they're roughly human-sized and far more powerful than an adjuchas. Barragan (and Ichigo's new Hollow form for that matter) both fit that description. Additionally, both their masks (Barragan's "skull" and Hollow Ichigo's mask) cover their entire heads. 142.26.194.190 (talk) 20:16, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Barragan was King of Hueco Mondo and a powerful Hollow, but not a Vasto Lorde. I don't think a Vasto Lorde would be defeated so easily in battle. Evilgidgit (talk) 16:37, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Best to leave it as-is for now. Speculation and conjecture when we're trying to be factual are dangerous. Until Kubo comes out with more explicit information as to Barragan (and, indeed, all the Espada/Arrancar) regarding their status, we should just wait and see. Adam Restling (talk) 04:53, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm actually thinking Barragan was initially an arrancar, and his skull is not his mask, but his actual face. Haachi (The kido-using visord - whatever his name is) said Barragan's decaying ability would've destroyed him were it not for him having a secondary power protecting his bones from it. So the reason he is a skeleton is because his decaying power destroyed his flesh. 142.26.194.190 (talk) 14:46, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Lilynette Gingerback Primera Espada?

Should we included Lilynette as a Separate from Starrk or leave them together, because Starrk says "We are the Primera Espada, Coyote Starrk and Lilynette Gingerback, and this is our power." on page 15 of chapter 373. Which might mean Lilynette is also an Espada.

They should be presented together. They are two pieces of one being that together make up the Primea Espada. The correct way to name the Prima Espada would be Coyote Starrk/Lylynette Gingerback. They are one Espada together. 174.46.28.58 (talk) 21:16, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

They should not be presented together as the Espada primera for a very simple reason: only Starrk has #1 tattooed on him.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.53.10.232 (talk) 19:13, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Yammy Below Starrk?

If the order of the espada is strongest to weakest; why is Yammy, who is the strongest of the espada, below Starrk, the second strongest? 86.138.98.60 (talk) 10:04, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

list of hollows in bleach

this is the list of hollows in bleach, but the way the article is headed, there seems to be a list of arrancars only or arrancars who were once introduced as hollows. I think the other section shouldn't say "The following are those arrancar that have never received a position as an Espada." Bread Ninja (talk) 17:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Also the overview explains a little more on soul reaper than Hollows. Should those tiny trivial pieces be removed?Bread Ninja (talk) 17:27, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Szayel Aporro Granz Vs Grantz

I know it's a little early to be bringing this up, possibly 1-2 volumes early by American/English releases, but with Ilfort's last name being translated as Grantz, and them being identified as brothers. Would it be safe to say it's Szayel Aporro Grantz, or is that a little too WP:OR ? DaisukeVulgar (talk) 18:35, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I would agree with you but I haven't made the edit myself for the same precaution. It might be best to leave it as is, since it shouldn't cause too much confusion when (if) the change is made for just one letter.

Also, it appears his name is hyphenated to be Szayel-Apporo, but that may be due to spacing issues. I doubt that'd be cause to add a hyphen, but I don't want to be accused wrong about it. Spindori (talk) 22:12, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

The January 2010 Shonen Jump does show his name as "Szayelaporro Grantz," so all of it would be one name, right? I'm pretty sure the matter of his surname however is settled now. Spindori (talk) 16:37, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Nel in the espada section

since Nel was shown as a weakling arrancar more than espada number 3, we should put her in "other" rather than "espada" section. right?Bread Ninja (talk) 16:47, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Nel is still the previous Tercera Espada so her position in the rankings seems a given. The 'Other' section explicitly states "The following are those arrancar that have never received a position as an Espada." DaisukeVulgar (talk) 17:07, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Ok, then i guess Nel can be the exception then.Bread Ninja (talk) 18:17, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Also since Nel tu is more commonly known as "nel tu" shouldn't we change her name title?Bread Ninja (talk) 17:36, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Technically, no we shouldn't. Because she was Nelliel Tu Odelschwanck as an Espada, she was just introduced to the series as Nel Tu. Subtle difference. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 01:13, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Agree with Daisuke. Espada is a title not a race so Nel doesn't need to be in such section.Tintor2 (talk) 01:17, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

She has lost the title of Espada though.Bread Ninja (talk) 19:00, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

::::As I've said before, the Other section, as it states is for "those arrancar that have never received a position as an Espada". There is really no reason to argue against her being in the Espada section. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 20:13, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Edit: She was Still Nelliel Tu Odelschwanck as an Espada, that is why she's shown as that within the section. It says she's more commonly known as 'Nel Tu' any way, so I think its fine. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 20:18, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

She was introduced as Nel Tu not Neliel Tu Odelschwanck. it was later revealed that she "was" a former espada (number 3)and her full name. Seeing as how haribel is the new espada number 3 it's not really correct to leave Nel tu as an espada while someone else also has the same title. not only that but it appears that only one can hold the title of espada seeing as there are privaron espadas Bread Ninja (talk) 15:53, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

If you're going to argue against Nelliel being in the Espada section, you should argue at Luppi being in it to. By your logic, they should both go in other. What makes Nelliel special, and Luppi exempt? I'll try to explain to you again, she is in that section because she was given a rank as an Espada, and she is Nelliel in there because she was Nelliel AS an Espada. If she'd never been an Espada, she would be in the 'Others' section. This is needless arguing against it now. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 17:17, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Luppi was introduced as an espada. Nel wasn't. anyways leave it the way you want. but i feel the Other section being far too specific making the article more about "Espadas and Fraccion" rather than hollows in general.Bread Ninja (talk) 16:14, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Spanish translations

I fear some or all Spanish translations is what making the article in an in-universe style due to no sources or because of Original Research. We should try to find sources for the spanish translations and even the Japanese ones for the chapters that ahve yet to be in english.Bread Ninja (talk) 19:00, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Barragan Vs Baraggan

I noticed they had already changed it on the Bleach Wikia, but didn't want to change it without putting it up in the discussion. Afraid I don't know the actual source Its from the 10th official gum card set, so its official, right? [14]. Are we to change it to Baraggan, or not? DaisukeVulgar (talk) 01:36, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Muramasa

The psychotic Zanpakutou from the latest anime filler hollowfied, so that makes him a hollow now, so shouldn't he be mentioned in the "Other" section? And shouldn't Hollow Ichigo be at least mentioned in the article, 'cause he's a Hollow as well. He's a major antagonist of the series, after all. It seems to me that this article may as well be retitled Arrancar, 'cause that's all that's in it. What about Orihime's big brother? That bat-serial killer hollow? Come to think of it, what happened to them? Wouldn't Orihime's brother be in Soul Society? (The gates of Hell gimmick used on the bat hollow was great, but it looks to be a one-time thing.) Anyways, this article needs a few more Hollows, not just Arrancar. 75.157.110.77 (talk) 03:32, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Grimmjow

please show me where it was shown that grimmjow used to be Arrancar 12 before becoming an Espada. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.4.107.52 (talk) 21:12, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

• It was stated in a profile page from volume 38. (Until next time... Anon e Mouse Jr.) Anon e Mouse Jr. (talk) 13:45, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Creation and Conception

Don't Hollows had Creation and Conception? Didn't Title Kubo said anything about them? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cococrash11 (talk • contribs) 19:25, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Move to 'List of Hollows in Bleach'

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:45, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

---

List of hollows in Bleach → List of Hollows in Bleach — Since "Hollow" is capitalized in the context of this article, it would be fitting to capitalize it in the page name. Spindori (talk) 18:02, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I find it strange that "Hollow" and "Arrancar" have their first letters capitalized in this article, whereas said letters are lower-cased in the main Bleach article. I'm not sure why there is inconsistency, but apparently, the 'standardized archive' in the main Bleach article discussion page notes that editors should keep the letters lower-cased. In my opinion, it should be one or the other and consistent throughout Bleach-related articles. Any thoughts?

Kilkia123 (talk) 00:13, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I started that and have been meaning to capitalize them in the other Bleach articles too, but never got around to it. Sorry it caused a problem. Though I have not read the archives regarding capitalization, in Shonen Jump (magazine) and official Bleach sites I visited, "Hollow," "Arrancar," "Soul Reaper" and related words are all capitalized. I would think we follow the publishers' usage, over others. Spindori (talk) 21:26, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. Kilkia123 (talk) 15:43, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Ulquiorra's Helmet

If you look at his helmet/mask, it changes between when he is introduced and his death. On the last page of Chapter 190, his hemelt is covered in cracks, but if you look at it in Chapter 340, it doesn't have any cracks at all. 75.157.115.154 (talk) 04:32, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

He is also a goat. In the anime his eyes are colored and shaped EXACTLY like a goats, he has horns like a goat (though longer) and legs like a goat (though his legs are thinner than human bone). Not to mention the black and white skin in patterns very characteristic of goats. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.178.100.125 (talk) 20:41, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

How is that even relevant to the first post? And, no, he is not a goat, nor is his Resurrección. --173.69.37.230 (talk) 00:38, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

If anything, he is either a bat Hollow or a caricature of an Abrahamic demon. 173.180.64.146 (talk) 09:02, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

His Resurrección, Murcielago, which means bat in Spanish, means that he is a bat. 173.69.37.230 (talk) 22:09, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Yep. He's a bat and he's a demon. (Technically all Hollows are demons, but that's digressing) His ressurection's name, like the names of the other Arrancar's ressurections, has a double meaning. It may mean "bat" in Spanish, but it also means "giant black-winged demon" in Japanese. Therefore, he is both. Case closed. 207.216.208.68 (talk) 02:10, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Aaroniero Arruruerie

The article states that Aaroniero Arruruerie was the last of the originsl Espada. While I agree that it said so in the manga at the time, since then Tite Kubo has revealed that Barragan and (in the anime at least) Harribel were also part of the original Espada. Might I suggest that it be changed from " is the last of the first-generation Espadas" to " is one of the last of the first-generation Espadas". 207.216.208.68 (talk) 02:04, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

This type of change can be done quickly and undramatically if explained properly in the Edit Summary. Next time something similar is noticed, Be bold! and go ahead with the alteration, it will be much appreciated. Thanks for the input to improve the article. Spindori (talk) 01:36, 14 September 2010 (UTC).

This was never stated at all. All that was shown was that Aizen recruited Baraggan and Harribel into the Espada. It was never said that they were a part of the original Espada. Do not make things up--150.212.50.52 (talk) 18:28, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

The Artist Formerly Known As Fornicarás

Has anyone noticed that in the latest BLEACH volume released in English by Viz (I forget which in the 20s it is exactly), they changed the name of Szayel Aporro's Zanpakutou from Fornicarás ("you will fornicate") to La Lujuriosa ("the lecherous" [feminine gender]) ? Apparently, by Viz's wacko-tobacco censorship standards, "lechery" is more wholesome than is "fornication" XD. I've waited since the volume came out to see if anyone noted this localized alteration in this "Hollows" article, but no one has; and I was loath to edit it myself since, whenever I've tried to do so in the past, I've been tarred and feathered and somehow end up destroying the template in use etc etc. So mebbe one of youse guys can make the actual edit :). Adam Restling (talk) 07:41, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Zwehänder?

It was stated on halibell's summary that her sword when resurrected is a zweihänder. Let me stress this: not even once she is shown using the sword with two hands. I already changed it to 'pata' which is a hindu sword pretty much like her weapon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.87.111.100 (talk) 05:22, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Since she is the 3rd Espada, one would assume she could wield a Zwehänder-sized sword with one hand. Ichigo can wield Zangetsu with one hand, if that's any indication that the weapon's size in meaningless. 75.157.110.77 (talk) 22:29, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually, it is said several times that a Zanpakuto is part of the owner's soul and is thus weightless to them, meaning that even if it were a zweihander, it would have no weight to her.--Rockhalla (talk) 05:31, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Precisely my point. 173.180.89.129 (talk) 03:49, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

The Unforgivens

Tite Kubo released a special promo chapter for the Hell Chapter movie showing Shirrin (the movie's villain) fighting Szayelaporro Grantz and Aaroniero Arruruerie after encountering them in Hell after the latter two were killed by the Soul Reapers. Should it be mentioned that (at least some of) the Espada were banished to Hell after being killed rather than entering the cycle of reincarnation? 207.216.200.81 (talk) 03:30, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

That is not canon. it was promotional--150.212.72.23 (talk) 06:54, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

The canon point is invalid as that sounds only important to fans. I guess it could be put that they appear in such places in such parts, but without the comments "it is/ it is not canon" because that is unsourced and thus uncyclopedic.Tintor2 (talk) 13:42, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

How is canon not important. Canon means whether or not it happened in the main story line of bleach. According to Tite Kubo, none of the movies are canon. The unforgivens is not canon. This means that anything that happened in them cannot be considered true. This means that Espada do not actually go to Hell, in fact, that contradicts canon which says that an Espada- being a hollow- killed by a soul reaper would be purified.--Godisme2 (talk) 18:29, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

And there is no reliable source to back up such info. Only claims by fans.Tintor2 (talk) 18:36, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Read kubo's tweets. Here is how you know they are not canon. When in the storyline did they happen. They did not. The reliable source is the manga. It very specifically says that a Hollow who is killed by a shinigami is purified and the soul goes to soul society. A hollow killed by a quincy just dies, it does not go to soul society. This can be found in Ichigos first encounter with Ishida. It says later that a soul eaten by a hollow cannot go to an afterlife. It is just destroyed. --God (Pray) 18:49, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Didn't we see a hollow go to hell in the series' second volume? (the one with the bird, I even remembered the hollow was cut in half by sword from hell) Saying it is not canon with various primary sources would be a synthesis, part of original research.Tintor2 (talk) 19:16, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, Shrieker went to hell. Do you know why? It is because as said in those chapters, a zanpakuto can only cleanse a hollow of the sins they have committed as a Hollow. They cannot cleanse a Hollow of sins they committed during life. Shrieker was a serial killer while he was alive. Thus he was sent to hell upon being defeated as a Hollow. He was just one Hollow though. All the Espada are Menos though meaning they are made of hundreds of Hollows. When a bunch of Hollows all form together and eat each other, they becomes a Gillian, eating more Hollows creates an adjuchas and eating even more creates a vasto lorde. Szayel was an adjuchas and Aaroniero was a gillian, this means they had been eaten by hollows in order to become menos. Therefore their souls cannot go to an afterlife.--God (Pray) 19:43, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Isn't all of that just conjecture? It is never stated whether a Menos can or can not be sent to Hell. I'd say there's a loophole for why they might be sent, but that would also be a fan's assumption. Back on the subject of canon/not, in my opinion, the main Bleach storyline can have precedence in the articles, fine, but all spin-offs and related universe materials should also be considered true even if they may contradict the main. Spindori (talk) 22:08, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

All I am saying is that all information that is not canon should be identified as so so that anyone who looks at the pages understands what is part of the main storyline and what is not. It is a more organized approach than just lumping everything together. Just put a small note before non-canon material saying something like "the following information takes place in material not part of the main bleach storyline". That way people can understand bleach more fully by understanding that some events happen in different bleach universes if you understand what I mean--God (Pray) 22:42, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Stating if something it's canon or not sounds a lot like fancruft as it is not notable for common readers unless it contradicts events from the manga. It would be more suitable in a fansite or the wiki.Tintor2 (talk) 23:45, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Exactly, non canon material contradicts events from the manga. Saying that Espada go to hell contradicts the manga that says that any holllow eaten by another hollow does not go to an afterlife. Saying that the movies are part of bleach canon contradicts the timeline of the manga. Wikipedia should be organized, do you not agree? Throwing movie material in with manga material and anime material is not very organized. The non canon material should be given a distinction or a new section to note that it does contradict canon material. Anime filler arcs are the same way. The bount arc says Ichigo could not initially uses his bankai in the human world. The manga shows that he had no trouble doing this. The amagai arc says that Ichigo could maintain his mask for long periods of time which contradicts the manga that shows that he could only hold it for 11 seconds and has yet to fully master it. The zanpakuto arc says that a zanpakuto spirit can exist without its master which contradicts the manga which says that a zanpakuto spirit is part of the master's soul. It is one and the same, if the soul dies the zanpakuto spirit dies. Things are considered non canon because they contradict manga facts--God (Pray) 00:24, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

And making such long synthesis is part of original research. There is no mention in an article that says something is canon or not. Just saying "he does this in the manga and this in the movie" is enough to write without focusing in telling if something is canon or not.Tintor2 (talk) 00:45, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

There is a difference between original research and comparison. ALL I am saying is that the non canon material contradicts the established facts of the manga and should be given distinction to clarify this. That is all. I don't feel that proving something based on a comparison of two reliable sources of the subject at hand that are verifiable and true should be discounted because it is "original research", it isn't really.--God (Pray) 00:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Not really per WP:Synthesis.Tintor2 (talk) 01:04, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Do you really want me to dig through Kubo's statements on movies in order to prove this. Oh, wait, I forgot Tite Kubo does not exist, or is it that he is not a reliable source. Whatever I will just drop this statement off concerning Hell Chapter and the other movies, it was made by that nonexistant/non reliable source man, "The other movies had the feel of the Bleach series. This new movie has the feel of bleach". Not is Bleach, has the feel of. I will get the source of that if you really want but somehow I doubt you will say anything not published by viz is reliable

Edit: I just remembered the perfect way to explain contradictory material to you.In Bleach:The Third Phantom, Seigen is the captain of the 5th division and the captain of the 12th is Urahara. However we know from the manga that the only captain of the fifth division during Urahara's time was Shinji. Obviously you cannot say they were both captain so you have to say one is not canon to the series, obviously being the game. --God (Pray) 01:19, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

And using various primary sources which are not Kubo's comments, but the manga's characters' is a synthesis. Actually, all the notes you made were comments from the manga, not from Kubo who never said anything about the film.Tintor2 (talk) 01:23, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Now you have lost me. I said I was going to grab Kubo's comments--God (Pray) 01:27, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Which you never used.Tintor2 (talk) 01:31, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Which I never claimed that I did. At least you acknowledge that Kubo exists--God (Pray) 01:35, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

This is really going offtopic... Kubo exists, but he never said anything about the film except that he wrote it, so there is no source.Tintor2 (talk) 01:42, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

He has commented several times about the canon events of Bleach. I am tracking those down for you now so hold your horses, it may take me a few days. I have a friend finding them as she knows all the places kubo has ever said anything.--God (Pray) 01:46, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

The second half of Episode 299 (Theatre Opening Commemoration! The Hell Verse・Prologue) shows the events detailed in Imaginary #1: The Unforgivens. I don't know if that means it's canon in the anime, but there you go. Also, the question of canonicity can be applied to the fillers, which never occured in the manga but do in the anime. The Bount arc was canon in the anime because Ichigo confronted an illusion of Jin Kariya while taming his inner Hollow, but where do all the other fillers (films included) fit into the storyline? If they don't and aren't canon, then by that logic, Tia Halibel's past as a Vasto Lorde, which was revealed through an anime-only filler arc, is therefore not canon and shouldn't be included in her section. If the anime fillers are canon then the 8th and 9th Espadas' exile to Hell should be mentioned briefly at the end of their sections. Also, Godisme2, if a Soul Reaper's zanpakuto dies when its wielder does then Tosen would be weaponless because it's stated in the manga that he took his deceased friend's zanpakuto for himself. Canonicity is a topic that should be addressed, but elsewhere. 173.180.89.129 (talk) 19:53, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Correct Name Spelling

I notice many of the arrancar names are mispelled with the correct spelling in parethesis stating romanized as such in Japan. If I have this straight how the author chooses to spell the name is the correct spelling and viz is actually romanizing. So I am changing it to make it more appropriate. I you wish to discuss by all means post.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.64.104.4 (talk • contribs) 22:55, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

It has been discussed various times to use the official English names like in #Incorrectly Romanized Names.Tintor2 (talk) 23:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

In the recent Bleach manga officially released by Viz Media, volume 34, Nnoitora's full name is given as "Nnoitora Gilga" (page 69) instead of "Nnoitora Jiruga", as used in the article. Also, Zommari's full name is "Zommari Rureaux" (page 65) instead of the incorrect "Zommari Leroux". I believe both should be changed to match the official English release. (Cbrown17 (talk) 03:12, 14 March 2011 (UTC))

Espada rankings

Not that big a deal I just noticed that their rankings all end in o instead of a. Espada is a feminine noun so yeah.

Spanish isn't Kubo's first language, and he has made other grammatical errors in his use of it. Hueco Mundo, for example, should be Mundo Hueco. 207.216.197.154 (talk) 06:10, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Harribel and Baraggan

UNMASKED has their names as Tier Harribel and Baraggan Louisenbairn. I have the scans if you want them. Can we change this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockstar90 (talk • contribs) 22:09, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

It also revealed several other factoids, like the ranking of all the fraccion, what type of Hollow each Espada was (4 and up were Vasto Lorde; 5 to 8 were Adjuctas; 9 was a Gillian), Ulquiorra's past, the locations of the Espadas' Hollow holes, and that out of them only Harribel and her fraccion survived, having been healed by Orihime. Shouldn't the article be updated to include pertinent information like Grimmjow's and Yammy's deaths and the location of the Hollow holes (the article includes some but not all, so either remove them or include them all)? 207.216.197.154 (talk) 15:58, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Grimmjow is Confirmed to be Dead

Kubo confirmed Grimmjow's offpanel death in an interview at Jump Fiesta and in the second character book. 207.216.197.154 (talk) 12:23, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

what about yammy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.143.138 (talk) 20:59, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

No clue. We'll have to wait for the 3rd Character book for conclusive conformation about the Arrancars' fates. 207.102.129.71 (talk) 22:09, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

• EDIT* From what I'veread, Grimmjow and Yammy are both dead and only Tier Harribel and possibly Nel survived. 207.216.197.154 (talk) 15:59, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move and no consensus to override the previous move request. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:22, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

List of Hollows in Bleach → List of Hollow in Bleach – The plural for Hollow is Hollow. This is showcased several times in the manga. Like many spanish words, the plural is the same as the singular. 184.56.245.182 (talk) 02:00, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Fine by me. 207.216.197.154 (talk) 21:12, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose Looking at the VIZ releases, they clearly use Hollows when referring to more than one Hollow. Second, hollow is not a Spanish word, but originated from Middle English. So standard English grammar rules should be followed when it is pluralized. And finally Tite Kubo chose to call them "Hollows" because they have an emptiness inside of them that they try to fill. Wholes are their opposites. —Farix (t | c) 12:05, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.