Talk:List of MythBusters episodes

Special episodes

What is the purpose of distinguishing "special episodes"? The current system makes little sense. Why have arbitrary criteria, even when it has not been consistently applied throughout the show's entirety? And currently, there are three "special" episode distinctions: episodes numbered with "SP", episodes noted as special, and episodes listed at List of MythBusters special episodes. All of this seems excessive, confusing, and arbitrary, not following any specific reliable source. We should report on facts, not develop some complex, nonsensical system of categorising episodes based on original research. S.A. Julio (talk) 10:48, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure we've discussed this previously, and I really wish you'd waited for a reply before you went through all of the episode lists. Because of the complex and inconsistent way that Discovery Channel advertised, listed and aired episodes, it was necessary to find some way to list them here that didn't result in original research. "SPx" is used to designate most episodes aired as special episodes outside the normal numbering system. For example "Viewers-Choice/Christmas Special" was not listed in the Discovery Channel official episode guide but was aired as a separate, special episode so it gets the "SP" designation. There were also a number of episodes that were either advertised as a special episode or stated to be a special episode in the episode opening but that were listed in the episode guide. "Pirates Special" is such a case. Because it was listed it the official episode guide, it got a normal episode number. All of these episodes aired within the normal season airings. Then there were the episodes that aired completely outside the normal airings, completely separate to the rest of the episodes. These are the episodes listed at List of MythBusters special episodes being the "Best of" specials, "Busters Cut" episodes (which were just re-cuts of previously aired episodes, the "Young Scientist" special that aired on a different channel but was presented as a MythBusters episode, and "Car Conundrum", which was like the Busters Cut episode but wasn't a Busters Cut episode. Because they didn't belong in any season they were placed in a different article. For consistency, all of the special episodes not in the obviously named article were noted as special episodes". This was certainly not an arbitrary decision, it was made after much careful thought and examination. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:26, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

@AussieLegend: What difference does it make if an episode is advertised as "special"? The word "special" has often been used very loosely by the show. How does an unexplained system of classification created by Wikipedians aid readers' understanding? Especially since recent seasons have not continued this system of classification. This system seems like WP:OR, why not keep it simple and only have one type of "special"? S.A. Julio (talk) 12:15, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Quite to the contrary, it would be OR to implement a numbering system that ignored the numbering allocated by the producers of the program. The "SPx" designation was included to cater for episodes not listed in the official episode guide and which didn't have episode numbers but the producers identified other episodes as special episodes so we decided to note all of the special episodes to avoid arbitrarily deciding what is or is not a special. Whether you think "special" has been used loosely by the producers is irrelevant. The producers are authoritative so we follow what they decide is a special. This is the same principle we follow with WP:TVCAST where the producers determine who is or is not a starring character. It's not possible to simply have one type of special because the producers released different types of special. There is very little we can do about that. --AussieLegend (✉) 05:06, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Do you have any sources which indicate the "numbering allocated by the producers of the program"? As for the "SPx" designation, almost all episodes are now listed on the episode guide (only Viewer Special Threequel is missing), this no longer seems necessary to include. The whole system seems outdated, it seems like WP:OR to assign episodes as "specials" based on Wikipedia-specific system. S.A. Julio (talk) 07:30, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

The older episode lists are no longer available. The ones that are available only date back to 2009 or so. Those don't include numbering but they do show how only certain episodes were listed. Yes, the old system no longer seems to be used but that doesn't change anything. We don't retroactively change things. See American Dad for an example of this.

it seems like WP:OR to assign episodes as "specials" based on Wikipedia-specific system. - It wasn't assigned based on a "Wikipedia-specific system", it was based on how the episodes were advertised, listed and aired, as already explained. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:53, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Again, is there evidence that this is the "numbering allocated by the producers of the program"? Are there any sources which list these as "specials"? Unless there is proof this is how the episodes are numbered, this complicated system should be removed. S.A. Julio (talk) 20:36, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Again, all of this was sourced, which is why the numbering system was used and I refer you to my last post. Overall, the producers did not follow a consistent numbering system for the whole series but we need one for these episode lists. Nor were episode names and air dates consistent with at least one episode aired years apart in different markets. For example, "Plane Boarding/Bite the Bullet", called "Plane Boarding" in the US, was aired in Australia two years before it was aired in the US and it wasn't the last episode to show the build team here. If you want to list the episodes in the "special episodes" section as normal episodes you'd need to find sources that indicate that they were normal episodes and the authoritative reference, the official episode guides, don't support that. As for the others that mention they were special episodes, the episodes themselves support that. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:47, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

The information "was sourced"? Do you have an example which verifies this? I understand the inconsistency in numbering by the producers, but right now Wikipedia seems just as inconsistent. From earlier: a number of episodes that were either advertised as a special episode or stated to be a special episode in the episode opening but that were listed in the episode guide. Why is this designation needed? This seems too caught up in wording, not every themed episode needs to be noted. This hardly has any real world meaning. I have yet to see any source match the numbering of specials used on Wikipedia. S.A. Julio (talk) 18:25, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

You've been on Wikipedia long enough to know that a lot of references disappear over time. MSN, which was a major guide at the time I started editing these articles, has gone completely. I've been editing these articles since at least 2009 so it's a big ask to expect somebody to go back through nearly 9 years of edits and internet history. However, if you look at the 2009 revision of the article (special episodes are here) you'll see what an unreferenced mess it was. If you then look at the historical versions of the official episode guide you'll see how the episodes were listed by the original network. (As I write, archive.org is not working properly, I'll have to add links later) Episodes not in these lists can't be considered to be official episodes, so they can't be given official episode numbers. Even some of the more recent lists support this. See, for example, the 2004 official guide which doesn't show the "Best of" episodes.

Why is this designation needed? - Since the producers felt it was notable enough to mention it seems prudent for us to mention it. It forms part of the plot summary and is therefore supported by MOS:TV.

I have yet to see any source match the numbering of specials used on Wikipedia. The numbering of TV episodes has never actually needed to follow a specific numbering system used by producers. Most producers use production codes that rarely match the airing order, while TV networks just list episodes as they air. The episode numbers that we use in episode lists are always generated by Wikipedia editors. |EpisodeNumber1= has to be unique to allow proper linking while |EpisodeNumber2= normally reflects the order in which they are aired during a season but they don't have to. If you look at the episode numbering for American Dad! you see that it matches the order before it moved to TBS. After TBS started airing it the episodes were renumbered so, while Wikipedia lists 15 seasons, TBS thinks there are 14. Numbering here suffers a far worse problem because of the inconsistencies. At most articles we list by the order in which they aired in the primary market, but this program has two main markets, Australia and the US, as well as other markets so we've settled with listing by US air date but mentioning the date that the episode first aired in the world. It doesn't matter what numbering system you use, this program is always going to be inconsistent somewhere and you're looking for a world of trouble by trying to fix it. I've learned that over the past (almost) 9 years. --AussieLegend (✉) 12:57, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Opening the can of worms concerning the out of order episode guide once more since the current resolve of simply ignoring the issue is unsatisfying. The "official" episode guide is an unreliable mess! In episode 2004-6 "Myths Revisited" Earl, the Mythbusters' black Chevy, is used for a test, while the Mythbusters only come into possession of that car in the following episode. Chronologically and production-wise, that puts episode 7 before episode 6.
In Episode 2007-15 "Viewer Special" Jamie says "Since the beginning of season five or the Hindenburg episode..." and in the after credits addressing the audience Grant says "We'll be back in another twelve episodes..." Curiously, at the time of that statement, the 2007 season, according to the "official" count, consisted of 15 episodes. For no apparent reason, the "Pirate Special", "Snow Special" and the then current "Viewer Special" were all counted as regular episodes. Official episode guide? My #@*! There is a "Shark Week Special 2" without a "Shark Week Special 1". Episode 2007-18 is titled "Myth Revolution" even though on screen it is, more than once, titled "Myth Evolution" a title later used for the second installment (2009-18) on screen officially titled "Mythbusters Evolution II". Discovery Channel lists Episode 2009-02 as "Alaska Special" while it was the second Alaska Special and was listed as such by other sources, still Discovery's mistake is quoted here. As is the erroneous spelling of "Hindenburg". Such sightings are of no encyclopedic value!
Lastly, it makes no sense to exluded some special episodes from both the elusive "no. in series" and the "no. in season" count, especially when they have been aired in the regular weekly schedule and certainly are part of the series. Some "special" episodes do not even differ from regular episodes in the 3-myths-per-show setup. While others, not counted as special episodes, do.84.164.194.3 (talk) 18:04, 29 September 2021 (UTC) An afterthought: The production approach tasken by Beyond Productions was evident from the get go: The company first shot several segments (myths) and from that stock arranged the individual episodes. In the first pilot (episode 2003-P1) the wire mesh cage, being built in episode 2003-04 "Penny Drop", already is seen in the background. Source: Pilot Episode 1.84.164.194.3 (talk) 18:08, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

One last afterthought and then I shut up, promised! Copying nonsense just because it is published in written form and even defending it does not a good encyclopedia make. Good night and good luck!84.164.194.3 (talk) 18:27, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Season Groupings

I think going by the DVD seasons (which is similar to the Discovery.com seasons, shifted back by one and without the pilots), is more correct than going by years. The DVD seasons go over multiple years, but between them is multiple month-long breaks. For example, DVD season 1 starts at "Exploding Toilet", aired on September 23, 2003, and ends at "Buried in Concrete", aired on February 25, 2004, with regular episodes throughout. DVD season 2 starts on June 8, 2004. While this system isn't as consistent throughout the whole show, and I cannot find a list of the DVD season episodes, I fell it is better than the year groupings. Perhaps a second article grouped by DVD season could be made. MrHappyGuyChum (talk) 12:52, 6 January 2024 (UTC)