Talk:List of Palestinian suicide attacks

Name

For brevity's sake, I'd like to move this article to List of Palestinian suicide attacks. Comments? Jalapenos do exist (talk) 14:38, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was page moved.  Skomorokh, barbarian  19:00, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

---

List of Palestinian terrorists groups suicide attacks → List of Palestinian suicide attacks — - [The target is more concise; more recognizable (for example, "Palestinian suicide attacks" beats "Palestinian terrorists suicide attacks" on google by over 5:1); and, because of these reasons, it is easier to find. The target is a simple redirect to the current title, but the move can't be made by a non-admin, apparently because the target used to be a redirect, for no clear reason, to Lists of Palestinian suicide attacks (note the plural).] --Jalapenos do exist (talk) 16:55, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

• Support. Keep title simple. M0RD00R (talk) 15:53, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
• Support. --Gilabrand (talk) 16:05, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Number of suicide bombings

I don't understand. According to this page, the suicide attacks' mortal victims are similar to the first reference, but in such reference the number of suicide bombings in 2002 ascend to 60, while I only could find 45. This matter is confusing.

References

Attacks that are not suicide attacks

The 'Frank Sinatra' bombing of 31 July 2002 (aka the Hebrew University massacre, etc.) was not a suicide bombing; it was carried out with a concealed bomb laid on a cafeteria table and detonated remotely. There may be many other attacks on this list that don't belong here. Jalapenos do exist (talk) 23:52, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

The criteria used for this list: successful deliberate attacks committed by Palestinian terrorist groups against civilians and against security forces members using suicide bombers or other similar kind of bombing attacks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.16.232.216 (talk) 11:34, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

That's fine, but then it seems that the title should be changed. Jalapenos do exist (talk) 20:08, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Merge proposal

Since this article lists all suicide attacks, surely we don't need separate lists for each group?
I propose the following pages be merged into this one:

• List of Hamas suicide attacks
• List of Palestinian Islamic Jihad suicide attacks
• List of al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades suicide attacks
• List of Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine suicide attacks

Thoughts? ~Asarlaí 21:49, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, dear god this is absurd. Plus all 4 articles are incomplete. I say we just start from scratch and build an article called List of Palestinian suicide bombings or History of suicide bombings in Israel, maybe both - I don't know. But what we have now is totally absurd. Wikifan12345 (talk) 07:18, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Types of Attacks

This list is very confusing as it does not generally distinguish between attacks on civilian targets and attacks on military targets such as checkpoints or army bases. It is important that such a distinction be made for the page to be useful as a research tool. Furthermore, whereas some locations are explicitly stated to be in the West Bank or Gaza, not all locations in those two territories are labeled as such (for example some say Ariel, West Bank, others just Ariel). I will attempt to correct that latter point, but only partially. Finally, it would be nice to separate the killed and injured into two columns, so as to have the data on how many people were injured when someone was also killed. The current format is really confusing. Readlotsof books (talk) 07:21, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

After your comment, I'm still expecting you to improve this article, which of course is not finished. Carry on with your editions!

However, I'm afraid the exact amount of wounded is hard to find in every attack (few references say something precise about the number of injured).--AndresHerutJaim (talk) 21:44, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Mehola not Mechola

I searched for "Mechola" and haven't found anything with that name, I asked in hebrew wikipedia and someone replied confirming that whoever typed that word made a typo. --Escalader (talk) 16:52, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Not a typo. It is a different transliteration. Mekhola, Mekola, Mehola, Mechola are all the same name. You could also use different vowels. Geofferic ^T•_C✡ 12:24, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Suicide bombing near bus - one killed - 18 August 2011 - (The 2011 attack in south israel)

Suicide bombing near bus - one killed - 18 August 2011 - (The 2011 attack in south israel) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shimond111 (talk • contribs) 13:16, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Bombing Jerusalem - two killed 39 injured- 23 August 2011

2011_Jerusalem_bus_stop_bombing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.226.6.181 (talk) 09:18, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Discrepancies between itemized fatalities and fatalities by year

I noticed several discrepancies between the total number of deaths listed in the itemized sections and the summary, "Total number of fatalities, by year". Is this bad arithmetic or are there other factors not mentioned--e.g., injured parties receiving a fatal wound, thereby not dying in the attack itself, but later contributing to the number of fatalities. If the former is the case, this article needs editorial work (which I will do if no one explains why these numbers are different); if the later is the case, a new section explaining the gap in numbers would be helpful, which I would encourage the authors on this article to generate.

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Name doesn't mirror content

MANY of the bombings listed are NOT suicide attacks. Not acceptable, misleading, and not necessary. "Palestinian bomb attacks (1980s-today)" much more accurate and about the same length. Arminden (talk) 18:29, 1 January 2016 (UTC)ArmindenArminden (talk) 18:29, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Mess in the table, RESTRUCTURE!

The column headings were OFTEN not respected, lots of "injured" under "Death toll", some in the comments column. Suggest two columns, "Dead" and "Injured". Also, not immediately visible if the terrorist is included among the casualties; this should be made very clear, i.e. in the lead, linked by asterisk to all the "Dead" column headings (I guess none of them was just injured).Arminden (talk) 18:29, 1 January 2016 (UTC)ArmindenArminden (talk) 18:29, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Needs updating

Its a useful reference, but why isnt it up to date? Excalibur (talk) 00:10, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Ended in 2008?

The article says that it ends in 2008, but the title/criteria do not mention that these are specifically *bombing* attacks (as opposed to knifing attacks). Should the criteria / title be clarified so as to make the scope more clear? Or should the article be expanded to also include other types of attacks that were likewise intended to be suicidal? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.98.201.144 (talk) 05:54, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

What happened to cause the bombings to go way up in 2001?

What happened to cause the bombings to go way up in 2001? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.45.17.104 (talk) 03:39, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Edit request

Please change [[2002 Jaffa Street bombing|Jaffa Street bombing]] to [[Jaffa Street bombing]] per recent page move. Thanks. 81.141.43.132 (talk) 01:49, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Done DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 06:06, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. 81.141.43.132 (talk) 08:20, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Is it kept locked from editing so as to spread jewish propaganda of half truth? Saifullah.vguj (talk) 18:10, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 August 2018

• Adding the injury count to attacks where the injury count is missing in the table (e.g. in the "2002" section, the injury count for the Passover massacre is missing. In fact, most attacks that cause deaths are missing the injury count)
• If needed, update the "Total number of injuries and fatalities, by year" section with the injuries that have been added to the table. Prism55 (talk) 16:00, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: A general request like this cannot be completed via edit request. Please mention detailed and specific changes (what was the injury count for the Passover massacre?) and provide reliable sources as appropriate. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 19:32, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Link is dead

This link is dead:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/terrorists_spies/terrorists/palestinians/index.html

TheNewGenerationOfOlds (talk) 10:30, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

war crime cat

The Simon Wiesenthal Center advocating for classifying to be a war crime very much does not make it a war crime. The category is still unsupported, and claiming otherwise is dishonest. nableezy - 00:09, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Supported in spades - SWC, HRW, Amnesty. Beyond this being a targeted attack on civilian targets. Icewhiz (talk) 00:21, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Except none of them say that it is a war crime, rather that they would like it to be classified as such. Which would only be a thing if it werent already classified as a war crime, wouldnt it? nableezy - 00:22, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

No, as a matter of fact. Per the UN (https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, Article 8, "War Crimes", "2. For the purpose of this Statute, ‘war crimes’ means: [...] b. Other serious violations of the laws and customs applicable in international armed conflict, within the established framework of international law, namely, any of the following acts:

i. Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population as such or against individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities" 67.189.199.27 (talk) 09:03, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

@Nableezy: the source given in the article quotes Amnesty saying Palestinian attacks against civilians are a war crime (which is of course true), but not that suicide attacks are a war crime. In fact, suicide attacks can and have been directed towards military targets by Palestinians. For example, this attack is given as an example by Chery Rubenberg as one that was directed towards Israeli soldiers.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 04:29, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 April 2022

Erase the words: and the attacks stopped in 2008 Explanation: It is contradicted in the page since latter attacks are described. Alon Nevet (talk) 03:21, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

 Partly done: I made a copyedit to that section. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:58, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 October 2022

Please add the Cafe Rimon suicide bombing to the list. This is from the Cafe Rimon Wikipedia page. "On 1 December 2001 at 23:30,[11] two suicide bombers positioned themselves at either side of Café Rimon and blew themselves up simultaneously, killing 10 and injuring 170.[12] Palestinian President Yasser Arafat immediately condemned the attack.[13] Additionally he called for an end to all suicide bombings and acts of terror against Israel." Source is; https://web.archive.org/web/20101228132933/http://nyjtimes.com/Heritage/News/Sept0902.htm 46.19.85.52 (talk) 05:07, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the origin of the attack – this list is only for attacks committed by Palestinian terrorist groups; from what I can tell no group claimed responsibility. The source you linked to is for the 2002 poisoning plot. TGHL ↗ 🍁 03:21, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Commencing an article cleanup/refresh

Starting a cleanup/refresh today. Will update progress on the talk page.

1. Removed red links pending refresh of citations and identification of notable attack pages for independent article creation.

2. Recommending the removal of the bolding system to indicate scale of attack. Seems too editorial and the numbers speak for themselves.

Mistamystery (talk) 20:10, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Stylistic bolding for emphasis is also not sanctioned by MOS:BOLD. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:57, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

@Mistamystery:, honestly I can see this article getting deleted at this AfD, so I wouldn't waste your time. Probably a better use of your energy to cross-reference any RS-covered events listed on this page with the respective Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict annual page and add where relevant and properly reported on. Longhornsg (talk) 06:05, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree with the assertion that suicide bombing during the intifada, which is a unique and notable category of action that has warranted significant news coverage and academic research, should fade into the background of a general conflict timeline. The contentions for deletion are facile at best, if not disingenuous, and I do not believe the motion will prevail. Mistamystery (talk) Mistamystery (talk) 06:21, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

It is a page that abjectly fails WP:V by want of the sheer absence of any sourcing for most of the entries, and it was created by a now notorious sock puppeteer, so the reasons for deleting it are not facile - we do not reward sockpuppetry, and we do not tolerate material that falls short of verifiability. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:38, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

These are well established and well covered events in media and academia. Sourcing is not an issue. This can be easily remedied and is not grounds for deletion.

And the sockpuppeteer’s work here is 14 years old and this page has persisted well beyond their initial edits (their last edit on the page was in August of 2009). I think the statute of limitation has well expired on making the argument that this article has persisted merely because of one person. Mistamystery (talk) 06:52, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Being largely unverified is absolutely grounds for deletion. WP:V is a core content policy as unverifiable content is not reliable. Bad content does not improve with age. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:12, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Sockpuppeteer or not, the info on the page is fundamentally sound (I’ve already been running enough cross checking with sources) and I have no problem running the citations myself. (As well I’m sure others will chip in)

The citation template has only been on the page since April, what is the rush to delete? Mistamystery (talk) 07:16, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

As you note, it's been sitting here unverified for 14 years. If there was a will to verify, someone would obviously have found a way to do it by now. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:19, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

It has not been sitting here unverified (there are links on the page to full recap lists of suicide attacks during the conflict), merely not fully cited through (and it must be pointed out that most individual pages that link out are all reasonably cited).

I’ve only been aware of this page (and the citation request template) for a week, and was (and still am) planning on doing the due diligence. There is a will. But there are also 171 incidents, so it’s not like it will happen overnight.

Mistamystery (talk) 07:27, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 December 2023

November 23, 2022 - Two explosions at a bus station near the entrance to Jerusalem killed two and injured 22. Hamas praised the attacks as a “heroic operation” but did not claim responsibility. ZanderMart (talk) 09:58, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Not a suicide attack. Mooonswimmer 13:22, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 January 2024

December 25, 1994 - A suicide bomber wounded 13 people but managed to kill only himself when he mistimed the detonation of a satchel of explosives near a bus full of Israeli airmen. Hundreds of soldiers had gathered near the Jerusalem Convention Center on Zalman Shazar Avenue

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 17:05, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Done: The requested changes were both clear and made. I also added one additional reference for the attribution to Hamas and cleaned up the citation. // Cachedio (talk) 01:24, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

References

List vs regular article

Is there a reason why this article is a List article as opposed to a regular article? A regular article would allow for a more encyclopedic discussion of the topic.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 04:25, 6 July 2024 (UTC)