Talk:List of best-selling music artists/Archive 35

Status quo with 120 million sold albums should be on the list

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Christina Aguilera

So, I did some research and it turns out that Christina Aguilera is also a best-selling artist. According to the definition, best-selling artists have not only sold a certain number of their own albums, but also singles, music videos and compilation songs/ albums. If we include her sales globally, as of 2016, she has actually sold over 100 million records (certified). There are a few discrepancies, but they all seem to claim she has sold at least over 100 million records at this point.

My sources include:

http://fotpforums.com/topic/107139-christina-aguilera-saleschartsstreamsviews/

http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/61591265.html

http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=103758 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aazlave12 (talk • contribs) 08:19, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

We need to have at least 70 million copies certified to put Christina with 100 million copies worldwide... maybe we can get put her with 75 million records (around 57 million certified)... Can we include her collaborations with Maroon5, A Great Big World...?--88marcus (talk) 04:33, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes, those collaborations can be included in the total certified sales, but her total at the moment is 49.7 million. That can support 71.6 million in sales.--Harout72 (talk) 13:04, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

So sad some of her albums and singles were not certified in USA, and Burlesque is not included in the list even though 8 of 10 songs are performed by Christina herself.--88marcus (talk) 16:39, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Actually, after you bringing to my attention that eight songs out of ten on Burlesque are performed by Christina Aguilera, I agree that the all available certifications for that soundtrack should be included in the total. I will work on it over this coming weekend.--Harout72 (talk) 01:52, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Katy Perry is the leader of 100m-records claim

Hi Harout. I'm on mobile phone now, so I can not do some edit until I get on my computer. But I want to inform you what will I do when I reach my computer. I will put Katy Perry in the top of 100m-records claim and I will lower down Lady Gaga's claim sales to only just 100m records not 114m as we already did. Because Perry has the highest certification sales and better than Gaga. So, in the list of 100-119m, Metallica will lead again with 110m claim and then followed by Perry with 100m records. If Gaga's certification pass what Perry has, then Gaga can claim her 114m records back on the list. I think this is good. Need your opinion. Thanks Politsi (talk) 12:46, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

So we have a source for Perry that claims 100 records? As for Lady Gaga, she's listed with 114 million records, and her certified sales are over 94 million. Why would we downgrade her claimed figure?--Harout72 (talk) 13:06, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Harout, just in case if you want to put Perry now to 100m-list since I still far away from my computer until tommorrow. Please search on google, International Business Times two days ago publish Perry's 100m claim. Perry has 117m in certification and Gaga only has 94m. But now they are in the same list. I think it's not good seeing Perry with better certification sales but her claim sales is lower than Gaga. We are know much about streaming issue for those newer artists, and Perry's music is older than Gaga. I think Gaga can be listed with 114m if her certification at least pass 100m, even if Perry's claim still stuck on 100m. Harout, we need the final word about my idea and I need your word. Thanks Politsi (talk) 13:27, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Lady Gaga's US certified sales goes down by only 6,869,000 units when Actual sales and Certified sales are compared. So that takes the overall total to 87.9 million. Whereas Katy Perry's US certified sales shrinks by 17.130 million units due to streams. Which takes her total to 100.6 million. This means that the 100 million in sales that you've found is still low based on Perry's certified sales. But this doesn't mean that we should downgrade Lady Gaga's claim only because we can't find a higher claimed figure for Perry.--Harout72 (talk) 00:52, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Okay then, actually I'm proud I can convince a reliable source to publish 100m-records for Perry, because that's all started from me. And as for Lady Gaga, I follow your opinion. Let's welcoming Perry to the 100m-club. Thanks Politsi (talk) 05:35, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 September 2016

According to this article "Modern Talking" has 120 million in sales. I suggest that you add that in.

J.rodz01 (talk) 21:12, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

This list requires certain amount of certified sales based on the first year of charting. Artists/bands that have begun charting in 1984 are supposed to have their claimed figures supported by 46.1%, that translates into 55.3 million certified units for the 120 million claim. Modern Talking's available certified sales stand at 9.6 million units.--Harout72 (talk) 01:12, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Mariah Carey's Claimed Sales

I would like you to update the number of Mariah Carey's claimed sales, given that references claiming 175 million records are from 2010. Last articles talk about more than 220 million records worldwide and even if you enter to Mariah Carey page in Wikipedia it says more than 200 million records worldwide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariah_Carey).

http://news.sky.com/story/mariah-agrees-showbiz-is-too-white-too-male-10148551 http://mg.co.za/article/2015-12-14-entertainment-news-mary-j-blige-maxwell-at-the-betxafrica http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/global-icon-mariah-carey-announces-final-shows-of-1-to-infinity-her-first-two-year-las-vegas-residency-at-the-colosseum-at-caesars-palace-300329749.html http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/mariahs-world-mariah-carey-series-coming-e-december/ http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifestyle/competitions/closed-win-tickets-see-mariah-7478761 http://www.herald.co.zw/mariah-carey-to-tour-sa/ http://citizen.co.za/907919/mariah-carey-is-coming-to-sa/ http://www.interviewmagazine.com/music/new-again-mariah-carey/ http://theboombox.com/mariah-carey-facts/ http://entertainment.inquirer.net/150805/mariah-carey-is-coming-back-to-manila

Thanks a lot for your attention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alherpo (talk • contribs) 21:15, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

We should leave Carey's claimed figures as is because there hasn't been any significant progress in her certified sales in the recent years.--Harout72 (talk) 00:44, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Maroon 5

Hi Harout, need your help. Any progress from the band's certification sales to hold a 75m-claim?. Thank you. Politsi (talk) 01:31, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

There is 3 million units of progress since our last discussion, but they're still some 9 million certified units short to be listed with 75 million claim. They are standing on 44.6 million certified units at the moment. They need 53.4 million.--Harout72 (talk) 01:48, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Juan Gabriel Country of Origin

Unable to edit his Country of Origin, which is very proudly known to his fans as Mexico and not Spain.

Rihanna

Harout. I've notice that Rihanna's certification sales has pass 200 million. Just to make it clear for us and regarding with the streaming issue within. When we can lift her claim sales up to 230 million?. Need your opinion, since the 230m-claim for her is already available. Thanks. Politsi (talk) 02:06, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Her available US actual sales bring her US certified sales down to 129.040 million from 150.050 million, see [my file. So we're looking at at least 20 million units of over certifications due to streaming. I'd say we're still ok for another 10-15 million more certified units. But once she reaches 215 million units, it'd be wrong of us if we don't upgrade her claimed figure.--Harout72 (talk) 02:34, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Garth Brooks Record Sales

Hello, for Garth Brooks, I have found evidence that proves he has sold 160 million records, not 150 million. If possible, please change it.

GarthBrooks16 (talk) 04:40, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Done KGirlTrucker81 ^{huh? what I'm been doing} 12:19, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

KGirlTrucker81, you can't just update the claimed figures as you've done here, you also need to update the sources that support the figures. I did it this time for you, but bear in mind that claimed figures are upgraded very carefully at this list as there are lot of inflated claimed figures for all artists in circulation. There should be a thorough discussion taken place before we do that. Brooks' 160 million is acceptable as his certified sales are high and close to his previously listed 150 million.--Harout72 (talk) 13:57, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

I found that source and possibly who encourage that source to release Brooks's 160m-claim, it's good to see we finally can use it to increase the credibility of this list. Politsi (talk) 03:18, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Presley vs Jackson

Why would you remove Jackson's 400M claim with 182M certs (considering his non-US sales make up most of his total sales and RIAA has him at ~102M) while inflating Presley's claimed sales higher than the already ludicrous 500M number to 600M with his 211M certs (almost all of which come from RIAA since his commercial power was much more skewed to USA, leaving less room for missing certs in worldwide markets)? Seems biased towards Presley for some reason.

Jackson's album sales alone are in the range of 230-250M, so a lower-estimate total records of 300M is laughable. By comparison, no breakdown of Presley's sales exists that would ballpark anywhere close to 500M records, let alone 600M. Mc8755 (talk) 20:30, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Those album sales you're referring to for Jackson are all individually inflated. Jackson's albums certified sales stand at 137 million, which could never translate to 230-250 million in actual sales. Also, bear in mind that Presley has begun charting in 1950s when no other country with an exception of the US market had Gold and Platinum certification system. Which is the reason why at least half of Presley's records sales went without being certified abroad.--Harout72 (talk) 13:11, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

So you're saying estimates which are wildly inflated for Presley are fine because he's presumably missing lots of certs, but Jackson, whose certs list are missing millions (Thriller alone is millions short in that document), is ineligible for an estimated claim far closer to his certified grand total? Presley's claimed sales (separate to his certs) are US-heavy, not internationally heavy in the same way as Jackson's, largely due to market expansion and how the industry differed in the 1980s post-Presley. If you want to keep claimed estimates realistic, please let's do it for all artist, not just the black one.Mc8755 (talk) 18:44, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

1950s and 1970s (or 1980's: Michael Jackson's peak era) are very different time in certifications and music industry overall. Presley is the oldest artist in the list as the best-selling, so the record sales in reflects with his available certifications are okay with him. argumentum ad antiquitatem is for Michael Jackson or Thriller "missing certs", even 400 million records are inflated (at least in this time....Even some of his certifications post-died includes streaming). Regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 00:02, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

@Mc8755, what are you basing your argument on when you say Jackson is missing millions in certifications for Thriller alone? Are you saying there are additional Gold/Platinum certifications for Thriller or for the other albums/singles that the document I provided isn't including? Also, let me inform you that in the top two sections, all the artists are listed with their lowest available claimed figures which are closest to their available certified sales. You might also want to go over the lead of the list which could help you understand the way the list is operated. All of the artists are treated equally on the list. BTW, you're more than welcome to locate a reliable source that claims anything lower for Presley than the 500 million in sales.--Harout72 (talk) 01:00, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

My argument is that Jackson is missing certs, Presley is missing certs. I'm not even arguing Presley is missing less/more (I genuinely have no idea how many certs he's missing for his albums/songs), though considering his success was more US-centric it would be silly to think he has a lion's share going untracked outside North America. That document lists Jackson's certs. The certs are short millions of its sales (Japan alone has Thriller grossly under-certified by around 2.5 million according to Billboard, UK is missing half a million from what UK Charts Company has tracked, etc.) To pretend Jackson's certs are wholly accurate because he was popular from the late 70s is provably incorrect. His certified sales are much closer to a grand total of 400 million than Presley's are to 500 million or 600 million. I won't bother pushing this any further - it's more than clear Elvis Presley's total will stand despite no breakdown possible to come anywhere close to that inflated figure supported by just over a third certified sales. I presumed the opening section that specified unrealistically high claimed sales won't be used applied to all acts. Apologies.Mc8755 (talk) 19:40, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

What makes you believe that Presley was mainly popular in the US? And please provide the sources for the Japanese sales for "Thriller". Surely, the Thriller sales must have gone without being certified in Japan because Japan didn't have a certification system until 1989, but I don't see how we could be missing so much in certifications, and we're not. The 400 million is just an inflated figure for Jackson with under 200 million in certified sales. As I have already explained, Presley's certifications from outside of the US would naturally be missing as the UK, Germany, France, Canada, Australia and all others didn't have a Gold/Platinum certification program until mid 1970s.--Harout72 (talk) 21:34, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

No Presley albums are among the best-selling in any other major market (in claimed sales). In fact, I can't find one that's among the best-sellers in any market. His charting shows a much heavier lean towards the US than international markets. Thriller sales source (Billboard referencing Sony): http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/268216/michael-jackson-remains-a-global-phenomenon - these sales exclude the posthumous bump so 2.5 million is likely an underestimate to be honest. As I said already, Jackson is missing millions in certs when combining foreign markets because they were either missed from their sales era like with pre-90s Japan, or because they're just not certified to the tracked sales level (Thriller in the UK). He's some millions short in the US (almost 2 X Plat can be added to Number Ones with 5.4M in pure sales, Off The Wall is likely close to moving a Plat level), including where he is missing certs for digital track sales (Beat It must be nearing 2M in digital sales with a Gold cert, Thriller (song) is at Gold too and is nearing 4M in digital sales)... the list goes on. His is very under-certified. Your argument is 400M is inflated for Michael Jackson so it has to go. 500M is inflated for Elvis Presley, so it and the 600M figure can stay. This makes no sense. Mc8755 (talk) 22:52, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Charts just like Certification systems didn't exist in many countries in the 50s and 60s. Therefore, it's impossible to know whether or not Presley was mainly popular in the US. For example, the German official chart starts from 1978, that's over 20 years after Presley began charting in the States. In France, Presley seems to have had significant impact in the 60s based on these charts, but again it's unknown for the 50s releases. Most countries, however, didn't have any official charts in those decades. As for Jackson's Japanese Gold/Platinum count, I can only say what I said above, that most of his pre 1989 records have gone without being certified as Japan's certifying body, the RIAJ, didn't exist back then. Also, bear in mind that Japan has the second largest music market in the world after the US, meaning no other country with no certification program back in those eras is going to produce such uncertified sales figures as Japan. I completely agree that some of his sales have gone without being captured by the certifications, but I think we all can agree that Jackson's not missing over 200 million units in certified sales (considering the 400 million), that one thing is quite clear, I believe.--Harout72 (talk) 01:19, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Certification levels for Jackson's records

Good work in MJ sales, but The Essential and History were certified as multidisc, that means that TE sold 1.5kk and History 3.5kk, just see the soundscan sales...--88marcus (talk) 16:22, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

The sales for Mexican certifications are wrong too. The certifications in Amprofon website, are only for the sales after 2009, there's no data to put certification before 1999 there. So, the certifications for Thriller are Platinum+Diamond+Gold (meaning 450,000), for Bad Platinum+Gold (meaning 90,000) for Dangerous 2× Platinum+Gold (meaning 150,000), Histoy (meaning 30,000) ;)--88marcus

AMPROFON's certification level are here, you need to apply the correct certification levels based on release dates.

• Thriller is released in 1983, therefore, it translates to 1,600,000 units: Diamond (1,000,000 units for all titles released before 2000) + 2x Platinum (250,000 units for all titles released before 1999) + Gold (100,000 units for all titles released before 1999).
• Bad is released in 1987, therefore, it translates to 350,000 units: Platinum (250,000 units) + Gold (100,000).
• Dangerous is released in 1991, it translates to 600,000 units: 2x Platinum (500,000 units) + Gold (100,000 units).
• History is released in 1995, it translates to 100,000 units.

As for the US certification levels for multi disc products, they are here. Each unit in the CD case counts as one by the RIAA, therefore, we need to list them as they appear on their site. --Harout72 (talk) 02:32, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't think so. You need to apply the certification levels based on the certification dates. The Michael Jackson certifications appeared in Amprofon website only after his death, those certs are only about the shippments after 2009, you know, he sold a lot of records out there after that. There's no certifications to artist like Timbiriche, Julio Iglesias and Luis Miguel before 1999, because Amprofon begin to do their work there only in 1999...thank you for answering ;)--88marcus (talk) 03:08, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

The Amprofon database starts from 1999, but Mexico has had a certification system much earlier than that. For example Australia's database starts from 1997, but ARIA has existed since 1988. Applying the certification levels based on the certification dates is a very rare practice. It is only done by SNEP and RIAA, and Music Canada does that for Digital singles. Trust me, I've been doing this since 2008, I've done a lot of research into Gold/Platinum certification levels throughout all these years.--Harout72 (talk) 03:28, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

OK...;)--88marcus (talk) 03:55, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 September 2016

Add Green Day to the list 92.29.153.80 (talk) 22:40, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

According to Green Day's Wikipedia page, they have sold over 75 million records worldwide.

Not done: Seems the source at Green Day is not reliable enough for inclusion here. Please provide a more reliable source such as MTV, VH1, Billboard or Rolling Stone Mlpearc (open channel) 23:04, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Huffington Post

That Article [1] says Madonna has sold 400 million records, Mariah 300 million etc. Can those artists be listed with the claims, and do they have enough certified sales. --Jlo Fan 1999 (Talk) 12:37, 07. Oct. 2016 (CET)

That is a personal blog submission. He makes some very interesting claims, but I do not see any sources? I presume he got them from Billboard, but that is not clear. Karst (talk) 10:43, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

That source was used here by other editors for Lady Gaga and Beyonce, both of which were reverted, not so much because of the reliability of that source but because those are inflated figures. We upgrade the claimed sales only when there is significant progress in certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 13:24, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Madonna's 275m claimed sales

When will Madonna's 275m claimed sales remove? I think 275m claimed sales low for her certified sales, but im not sure —Navyiconer (talk) 02:10, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

It will never remove until her certification sales pass 200 million. Don't you think that at this time, her certification sales only around 170m is even too low for 300 million?. we're not making this list for fans base, but reliability. Politsi (talk) 07:09, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 October 2016

Beyonce has 75.8 million certified units, thus she should be moved to the 100 million section. Here's the source of her claimed 100 million sales - http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-beyonce-album-review-beyonce-self-titled-album-reviewed-20131214-column.html

BeKay.7 (talk) 18:00, 19 October 2016 (UTC):

No. Beyonce's certification sales must reach at least 80 million in order to get 100m-claim.Politsi (talk) 03:32, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Avril Lavigne has sold 85 million records

Worldwide, according to this article, Avril Lavigne has sold 35 million albums and 50 million singles. This was used on her discography article.

Lavigne's certification sales is too low for 85m-records claim. Politsi (talk) 07:09, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Not sure if this counts towards anything but here http://www1.billboard.biz/bbbiz/photos/pdf/2013/TFMm0418.pdf.--EnderAtreides117 (talk) 10:22, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Avril has sold more than 90 million records ww.With more than 40 million albums and 50 million singles. Her first three album alone has sold 40m. Let Go sold 20 m,Under My Skin 12m,The Best Damn Thing sold +/- 8.5 million. So i hope Wikipedia Team would include Avril on the list.Thank you in advance — Preceding unsigned comment added by Godneybjs (talk • contribs) 08:10, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 November 2016

Godneybjs (talk) 08:08, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi Wikipedia,i just wanted to suggest Wikipedia Team to add Avril Lavigne in the list of best selling music artist because Avril Lavigne has sold more than 90 million records worldwide but i dont see her name on the list.So i hope Wikipedia Team would add her name .Thank You in advance.

Someone above told you that Lavigne isn't on the list because her certified sales are low. This list requires certain amount of certified sales based on the first year artists chart. That said, Avril Lavigne has begun charting in 2002, meaning her claimed figures need to be supported by 71.3% certified sales. So in order for Lavigne to be listed with 75 million sales, she needs 53.4 million certified units. Her certified sales currently stand at 33.1 million units.--Harout72 (talk) 13:15, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 November 2016

37.157.179.120 (talk) 16:12, 3 November 2016 (UTC) Enrique Iglesias has sold more than 100 millions albums worldwide37.157.179.120 (talk) 16:12, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — JJMC89 (T·C) 16:28, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Green Day

Someone needs to add Green Day. They have sold over 75 million albums worldwide. At one point they were on this list, but someone must have removed them. 174.125.74.239 (talk) 17:39, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Rod Stewart

In this Article they say, his sales are 150 million. Can Rod be listed with that claim?--Jlo Fan 1999 (Talk) 09:23, 26. Oct. 2016 (CET)

Justin Bieber Origin

It states that his country of origin is both Canada and the United States. He was born and raised in Canada and came to prominence there. It should just say Canada. Junius52 (talk) 02:34, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

The column for "Origin" is meant to indicate the market the artists are from, not the nationality.--Harout72 (talk) 02:45, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

In the absence of any clear policy, we should go with one country. U2 says just Ireland, but they are not popular just in that small country of 5 million. Celine Dion says just Canada. The Beatles exploded internationally after they were on the Ed Sullivan show in the U.S., yet only the United Kingdom is listed. How are we defining which market someone is "from"? Junius52 (talk) 02:58, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

The country the artists reside in, signed in, and the most of the music is produced in, is the country we're listing. Citizenship doesn't determine artists' market. Same goes to Rihanna, Barbados isn't her market, we only include Barbados because she's started singing there.--Harout72 (talk) 03:42, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

You can't say that is true for U2. I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this, but one of the pages for their second-most-recent album says it was recorded in Morocco. They are signed to Island (US & UK), Interscope (US), and Mercury (US). Most of the music is NOT produced in Ireland. So, by your arbitrary criteria, they should be listed as originating in the United States. Same for Celine Dion, she should be listed in the United States. Junius52 (talk) 03:48, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

We're not after the location of the recording studios, our focus is on as to where artist's overall marketing and production is done. Bieber's production is owned by Def Jam and the worldwide marketing and distribution is handled by Def Jam's parent Universal USA.--Harout72 (talk) 04:08, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Right. But can you apply this same standard to any of the other artists I've brought up? Or are you arbitrarily applying this standard? Where is the policy written? Junius52 (talk) 04:11, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

This is not written anywhere, doesn't have to be, it is common sense. Can you provide detailed information as to whether U2 and/or Celine Dion have relocated to US as Bieber, are signed to US record companies as Bieber and most of their music production is owned by US based companies as it is the case with Bieber?--Harout72 (talk) 04:34, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

It is not common sense. You're applying different standards without policies. Origin is defined as the point where something begins. I've given you the example of U2 as merely one example where they are signed to US companies and produce music with non-Irish producers. There are countless more examples. You are the one making up your own standard, please look through the article to see many examples that don't fit your rule. Junius52 (talk) 04:42, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

The current origin of Bieber is US, unless you can prove otherwise. Your examples are not in line with the example we have for Bieber or Rihanna. Having one or two songs produced by US producers doesn't mean U2 have ever been based in the US as Bieber/Rihanna. I provided explanation as to why and when artists meet the criteria.--Harout72 (talk) 04:53, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Caveats

Should the detailed "The claimed figures are upgraded only when there is a significant progress in artists' certified sales..." caveats be buried in footnotes attached to appropriate headings, rather than as a big FAQ in the first section (or, as was, the lede)? These explanations seem aimed more at obscurely curious readers and potential editors of the article, than at the typical reader. --McGeddon (talk) 23:07, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately, having the lead with separate bold headings is the only way, it seems, to prevent editors from fiddling with the list.--Harout72 (talk) 01:57, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

If it's only aimed at the tiny percentage of readers who consider editing the article, why not put it all in the (currently quite bland) WP:EDITNOTICE? --McGeddon (talk) 09:12, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Before the bold headings, we'd have mutiple editors sometimes on the same day replacing the listed claimed figures with much more inflated ones. Trust me, even the EDITNOTICE goes without getting their attention.--Harout72 (talk) 16:27, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

I think the same wall of caveats would work just as well on the edit notice as at the top of the article, and would have the huge advantage of making the article much more readable for everyone else. From the edit notice edit history, we've never tried this. Do you think it might be worth a go for a couple of weeks, to see if it makes any difference to the number of bad edits? --McGeddon (talk) 20:45, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

We can definitely try, but it's obviously going to be one extraordinarily large Edit notice. We'll have to have all of the bold headings/questions along with their answers.--Harout72 (talk) 02:21, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Sure. So: edit request to replace the edit notice with the current FAQ from the lede, and when that's been made, an edit to the article to instead attach each FAQ as a footnote to a corresponding column in every table? Would a large "IMPORTANT: Please read before editing any figures." heading also be a good idea while we're at it? --McGeddon (talk) 09:57, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes, so the edit notice would have to include everything from "What is required to be on this list?" to everything else that follows, we won't need to keep the edit notice that we currently have. On the list we should still have the same but without the questions, just as you have it here. We should skip including anything at the footnote, nobody's going to take even a second to read what's at the footnote, I know this for sure. We currently have some info at the footnote, yet editors ask question the answers of which lie at the footnote section. Also, your suggestion "IMPORTANT: Please read before editing any figures." is a good idea, but it should be in red or pink, so it will catch editors' eyes immediately.--Harout72 (talk) 14:09, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

I've requested that the edit notice be changed. Fair point on footnotes, I think most of this will be fine in a section in the body. Some of the caveats ("if all available sources for an artist/band say "albums", such sources are only used if the certified album units of the said artist meet the required percentage amount...") seem like minutiae that would be better in a footnote, though, and in general the text should be rewritten a little so that it's aimed squarely at readers, rather than would-be editors. We can work on that as we go. --McGeddon (talk) 09:25, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Looks good, thanks. If this doesn't prevent the mess some of the editors sometimes make, I don't know what can.--Harout72 (talk) 14:07, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 November 2016

Please add Shakira on this page. She has sold 125 million copies to date. Source: [2] Nguynkimsn2003 (talk) 01:44, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

This list requires certain amount of certified sales based on the first year artists begin to chart. Shakira has begun charting in 1995, therefore, she needs her claimed figures supported by 67% certified sales. So, for a claim as high as 125 million units, she'd need 83.7 million certified units, but so far her available certified sales are only 40.9 million units. In fact, that is not even enough certified sales to list her with 75 million units, for that she'd need 50 million certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 02:57, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Bruno Mars 130m

Could one of these sources be used when his certs are high enough to support 130m sales? http://www.bet.com/music/2016/11/18/bruno-mars-24k-magic-interview.html http://www.unratedmagazine.com/Bios/_Artists.cfm?Band_ID=2021 http://www.canadiantirecentre.com/news/bruno-mars-announces-new-special-guests-for-his-blockbuster-moonshine-jungle-world-tour/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.15.115 (talk) 16:17, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Metallica's certifications

Hey Harout, Metallica recently released Hardwired... to Self-Destruct, which already scored a few new gold & platinum plaques, so wanted to ask are these certifications updated? Thanks.--Retrohead (talk) 00:08, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Yeap, I've made all of the updates. Here is Metallica's file, everything that on there is also transferred onto the list.--Harout72 (talk) 01:37, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Harout, considering their early music career and their certification will increase with the releasing of their new album. When we can move their sales up to 120 million? Is it possible when their certification pass at least 93 million?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 12:10, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Once their certified sales are between 95 and 100 million, we can consider upgrading their claimed figure.--Harout72 (talk) 17:42, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Sentence does not make sense

Something is wrong with the following sentence:

Markets' order within the table is based on Retail Value: each market generates respectively, the largest market at the top and smallest at the bottom.[3][4]

Even if the structural errors (errant colon?) are fixed, it is still a nasty sentence. Perhaps it should read something like this:

Markets within the table are listed in order of retail value generated, from largest to smallest.

However, it is still confusing. Since most artists have only one market/country listed, coupled with the wording "within the table", it is not at first sight obvious that it applies per-artist (is that right?) rather than table-wide. But why do most artists only have one market/country listed? For example, look at the Beatles. Did they not sell any records in the US? That's how it looks. 86.185.218.48 (talk) 21:15, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 December 2016

The following material is unnecessarily repeated in each subsection:

• To ensure the highest level of fact checking and editorial control, this list sources sales figures to news organizations and highly regarded music industry related organizations such as MTV, VH1, Billboard and Rolling Stone.

• The figures of total certified units within the table below are based on certified units of albums, singles (including digital downloads) and videos.

• Markets' order within the table is based on Retail Value each market generates respectively, the largest market at the top and the smallest at the bottom.[3][4]

• The column for certified sales above includes markets, the databases of which contain certifications representing figures of 100,000 and more.

It only needs to be said once, at the start. 86.185.218.48 (talk) 21:05, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

You're right but only for a small number of editors. Most only read the bottom and the top of the section their favorite artists are in.--Harout72 (talk) 23:32, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Beyoncé

Hi everyone, Beyoncé should be listed with a 90 million claim, but i can´t fins a source, could someone please help?--Jlo Fan 1999 (Talk) 18:07, 28. Nov. 2016 (CET)

Absent artists

I know that some artists's certification units are too low to support their claimed sales but what about finding lower claims? For example, if we can't support Cliff Richard's 250m claim, let's find a source that can be supported by his current certs. What do you think? And socondly, could I see a Bing Crosby's file with certifications? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.30.166 (talk) 18:05, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

What's the lowest figure available for Cliff Richard? I haven't gone over Bing Crosby's certified sales as there isn't much to go over. All there pretty much for Crosby is 6.5 million certified units coming from the RIAA, and 820,000 certified units from the BPI.--Harout72 (talk) 02:23, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

J.Lo

Hey Harout, can she be listed with 75m claim? http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/jennifer-lopez-on-being-jlo-hard-times-made-me-what-i-am-20140702-zsou3.html http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/10/carpool-karaoke-jennifer-lopez-james-corden-cbs-special — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.3.170 (talk) 19:48, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Please don't mix single sales with album sales

For example Rihanna has 110.5 million certified digital single certified units per RIAA, this should not be directly translated to 110.5 million album sales, in fact it should be counted as around 11 million album sales. The same algorithm should be applied to all new artists and their digital single certified units. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:3024:1823:4E00:119A:4954:566D:93F3 (talk) 19:23, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

We already discussed about this. Chrishonduras (Diskussion) 06:26, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Coldplay Update Version 2

Esambuu (talk) 05:01, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — JJMC89 (T·C) 05:39, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Esambuu, you need to provide the specific weekly chart for New Zealand's Gold for "Hymn for the Weekend". Here is the file for Coldplay.--Harout72 (talk) 16:46, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

NZ new source : http://nztop40.co.nz/chart/singles?chart=4301 (Look at Heatseeker singles)

Thanks for file. I just saw few things

1. UK : Ghost Stories Live 2014 - Gold (Source : http://www.bpi.co.uk/certified-awards/search.aspx)
2. Denmark : Hymn for the Weekend - Platinum (Source : http://www.ifpi.dk/?q=certificeringer&page=91)
3. Poland : Hymn for the Weekend - Diamond (Source : http://bestsellery.zpav.pl/wyroznienia/diamentoweplyty/cd.php)
4. Belgium : Hymn for the Weekend - Platinum (Source : http://www.ultratop.be/nl/goud-platina/2016)
5. France : Adventure of A Lifetime - Gold (Source : http://www.snepmusique.com/les-disques-dor/?awards_cat=64&awards_awd=0&awards_year=0&awards_artist=coldplay&awards_title=&awards_edit_distrib=&awards_sort=date_certif-desc&awards_nb=30&submitAdvanced=Rechercher)
6. US : Magic - Platinum (Source : http://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&ar=coldplay)

I added all of those, thanks for bringing them to my attention. I had the UK's Gold for the video Ghost Stories Live, I simply had forgotten to change the title after I copied and pasted from the line above on the file.--Harout72 (talk) 14:29, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 December 2016

Please add the following to the list of best-selling music artists (in between Shania Twain and R.E.M.):

Artist: Green Day

Country/Market: United States

Period active: 1988-present

Release-year of first charted record: 1994

Genre: Rock

Total certified units (from available markets): 51.5 million

-US: 30,500,000 (RIAA)

-Canada: 11,420,000 (MC)

-UK: 6,400,000 (BPI)

-Germany: 2,450,000 (BVMI)

-Australia: 350,000 (ARIA)

-Irish: 270,000 (IRMA)

-Austria: 90,000 (IFPI)

-New Zealand: 22,500 (RIANZ)

Claimed sales: 85 million

Shizeldolphin36 (talk) 05:40, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

References

Your certified sales for Green day are completely off for all of the markets, see this file for their detailed certified sales. Let me inform you that this list requires certified amount of certified sales for all artists based on their first year of charting. That said, Green day have begun charting in 1994, meaning their claimed figures should be supported by 66.4% certified sales. So, for a claim as high as 75 million, Green Day would need 49.8 million certified units. So far they have 47.2 million certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 14:39, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Coldplay Update 3

Mexico : Coldplay - Ghost Stories : 2x Platinum (Source : https://www.facebook.com/CertificacionesAmprofon/photos/a.447728662018417.1073741845.167176543406965/469565823168034/?type=3&theater)

In New Zealand, i think you calculated wrong, New Zealand's single certification unit is gold 15,000, platinum 30,000. But you counted same as album. Official information about certification : http://nztop40.co.nz/chart/albums (Bottom of page)

You need to sign your posts. The 2x Platinum for Mexico is for track Cheerleader from the album Ghost Stories, not for the album itself. Ghost Stories is certified only Gold there. New Zealand raised their Gold/ Platinum levels for singles in June 2016, therefore, "Hymn for the Weekend" isn't affected by the new levels as it was released in January 2016. The levels for singles before June 17, 2016 were Gold=7,500, Platinum=15,000.--Harout72 (talk) 04:42, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Avril Lavigne should be on the list

With all due respect ,why Avril Lavigne isnt on the list?She has sold over 90 million records worldwide(and this is pure sales without streams) .I really hope Wikipedia/Team will add Avril Lavigne to the list.Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Godneybjs (talk • contribs) 14:28, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

You've already been explained here as to why Avril Lavigne isn't on the list. The next time you re-post the same question, it will be removed as it will constitute disruptive.--Harout72 (talk) 01:27, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Modern Talking should be on this list

They have sold 120 Million records easily qualifying them, but they never have registered with billboard. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Talking#Production_and_sales_figures J.rodz01 (talk) 21:34, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

A-ha should be on this list

Acoording to the wikipedia page, A-ha has sold over 100 million records: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-ha Considering this, they should definetly be on this list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Petersten (talk • contribs) 16:43, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

George Michael

period active 1981-2016 :( — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.29.116 (talk) 11:06, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Modern Talking should be on this list update

As an update I was able to find that they have 25.2805 million in certified sales which is within 20% of their 120 million sales claim, as seen with these sources. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_singles (8-9.9 million category) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Talking_discography https://www.ukmix. org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=77487 (paste in search engine with the . & org together) — Preceding unsigned comment added by J.rodz01 (talk • contribs) 15:04, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

The certified sales requirements are not standard 20% for all artists. The required percentage is based on the first charted year. For Modern Talking, it is 1984, which makes it 46% (see the second yellow box from the top on this talk page). Modern Talking have only 9.6 million certified units, and that wouldn't be enough for 75 million claim.--Harout72 (talk) 02:49, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Files

Hey Harout, could I see Katy Perry's, Bruno Mars' and Flo Rida's files with certifications, please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mary1853 (talk • contribs) 15:21, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Here they are:

• Katy Perry
• Bruno Mars
• Flo Rida--Harout72 (talk) 02:21, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Mariah Carey

I would like to update Mariah Carey certified and estimated sales. US sales are from 2011 and she has certified more sales since then (We belong together 3x platinum, beatiful gold). More changes can be found in other countries like spain (All I want For Christmas platinum) and more.. Moreover, articles talking about sales around 175 million records are quite old. Nobody talks about less than 200 millions records worldwide or even more: 200 million records - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-02/mariah-carey-flying-blind-as-technical-problems-interrupt-show/8157472 200 million records - http://www.elle.com/culture/celebrities/news/a41288/5-times-mariah-carey-did-the-most/ 220 million records - http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2016/12/lionel_richie_and_mariah_carey.html 220 million records - http://www.heraldnet.com/life/mariah-carey-gives-her-own-view-on-new-e-reality-show/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alherpo (talk • contribs) 23:10, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

All of those have been updated, yet there hasn't been any significant progress in Carey's total certified sales. So, for the time being we should avoid updating her claim sales.--Harout72 (talk) 03:23, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

I have seen you updated US sales. However, there are certified sales not taken into account. Some of examples could be Denmark: Streaming: http://www.ifpi.dk/?q=content/mariah-carey-all-i-want-christmas-sme http://www.ifpi.dk/?q=content/mariah-carey-all-i-want-christmas Track: http://www.ifpi.dk/?q=content/mariah-carey-all-i-want-christmas-0 http://www.ifpi.dk/?q=content/mariah-carey-beautiful or Ireland: http://www.irishcharts.ie/awards/gold08.htm http://www.irishcharts.ie/awards/platinum.htm and same for so many countries: Netherlands, South Korea, China, Finland. Most data from other countries have not been updated yet (Spain, Italy and so). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.14.206.23 (talk) 20:33, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

See this file for Mariah Carey's detailed certified sales. All music markets having a total of 100,000 and above certified sales are included on the list. A few things you should know:

• 1) Dutch certified sales are not verifiable at the moment as their database isn't available for the time being.
• 2) As far as I know neither China nor South Korea have certification databases, but if they do, let me know.
• 3) Italy's FIMI has two certifications posted for Carey, Platinum for Merry Christmas (100,000 units), 2x Platinum for "All I Want for Christmas Is You" (100,000 units), both of which are included.
• 4) Irish certified sales are way below the 100,000 units mark, therefore, not on the list.
• 5) Denmark's previous award for just Streaming cannot be included as they are not downloads. IFPI Denmark joined Streaming with Downloads in November 2014, those awards are included.--Harout72 (talk) 01:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

It will take some time to me to check all the data. I will answer you in a few days. Thank you so much for your great job on this page! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alherpo (talk • contribs) 11:08, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

For now I found that no certifications from norway have been included and she has more that 100.000 certified sales. Here you can check it https://web.archive.org/web/20120725054452/http://www.ifpi.no/sok/lst_trofeer_sok.asp?type=artist — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.14.206.23 (talk) 20:46, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Norway's changes in certification levels are not yet completely known in detail, therefore, all of Norwegian certifications are excluded from the list.--Harout72 (talk) 02:26, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Rihanna

Hi there,

a source published by Billboard claimes that Rihanna already sold 275 million records: http://www.billboardmusicawards.com/2016/05/rihanna-perform-2016-bbmas/ I know the rules of this list and that she needs her claimed sales supported by 73.3 % certified sales. 73.3 % of 275 million means a total of 201,575 certified units. Rihanna already passed this amount and I can't see any reason of not updating her claimed sales? Has it something to do with the streaming issue or did I just miss something else?

Thanks --Ilikeriri (talk) 18:48, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes, the streaming makes her certified sales go up enormously. Just her US digital singles certified sales are over certified by 21 million units because of Streaming, also her albums shipment makes her albums over certified by another 3.5 million, but we mainly should focus on the streaming issue here. So, the 21 million in just US over certification brings her total down from 209.9 million to 188.9 million. But the next sales upgrade for Rihanna will be a claim standing around 220 or 230. The 275 million will not be used for a long time as that is completely inflated for the time being.--Harout72 (talk) 19:10, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Alright, I get the point and understand it now. Thank you for answering.--Ilikeriri (talk) 19:14, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Kiss record sales

On this page Kiss is said to have sold approximately 75 million records. In the article about Kiss it is stated that the band has sold over 100 million records (which is the correct number). I hereby ask anyone who could change this mistake to do so. Some sources: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiss_(band) - http://www.kissonline.com/history - http://dailymusicbreak.com/rock/kiss-is-no-joke — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjk99 (talk • contribs) 18:40, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Coldplay

Please give me latest Coldplay file, thank you Esambuu (talk) 10:59, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 13:04, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

There you are.--Harout72 (talk) 13:52, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, Harout72

French : A Head Full of Dreams - 3x Platinum Link :http://www.snepmusique.com/les-disques-dor/?awards_cat=65&awards_artist=Coldplay&awards_title=A+Head+Full+of+Dreams — Preceding unsigned comment added by Esambuu (talk • contribs) 05:21, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

New Update

UK : The Scientist - Platinum (BPI) 2. I need updated Coldplay file. Can you give me? Esambuu (talk) 06:07, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 15:56, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Ayumi Hamasaki

Ayumi Hamasaki should be added, since she has sold 83 million records. 53 million physical sales 30 million digital sales (recochoku only!!!) TioTayumi (talk) 20:13, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Do You have a reliable source?--Harout72 (talk) 01:46, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes!

Sources for physical sales (the first states 50 million records sold and the second 53 million): http://www.oricon.co.jp/news/rankmusic/2015631/full/

http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/world/the-15-richest-japanese-pop-artists/

Here the source for the digital sales (recochoku only; states 30 million legal downloads): http://www.oricon.co.jp/pressrelease/98448/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by TioTayumi (talk • contribs) 16:39, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

This source states 53 million records. The term records stands for all records sold both physical and digital. That's useless. I see the 50 million album statement in oricon's source here, I was able to translate it. But this source you provided for the downloads, seems to speak of Exile and GReeen only. Where are you reading anything about Ayumi Hamasaki?--Harout72 (talk) 16:59, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

And this source says 50 million albums and 20 million singles. Am I translating this correctly?--Harout72 (talk) 17:05, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Oricon didn't count digital sales until the end of 2016. So the source of Oricon with 50 million records sold counts physical sales only.

this source here:

なお、累計ダウンロード数は、2位と3位は3,000万ダウンロード以上、4位から7位までの楽曲は2,000万以上ダウンロードされています。

It says that the second and third place sold 30 million digitally (Ayumi is #3).

So, she at least would have sold 80 million records. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TioTayumi (talk • contribs) 17:16, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

OK I was able to translate it, but that section ケータイ アーティストランキング seems to be referring to Mobile Downloads only. I'm kind of hesitant to use that source for her entire singles sales because that figure seems underestimated, while the source for her albums that states 50 million seems overblown in its turn by at least 10 million units. Ayumi's certified sales for albums stand at 33.5 million units, therefore, I don't see how 16.5 million units sold albums could have gone uncertified. Is there a source published by a Japanese news outlet that claims records sales of 75-80 million for Ayumi? I too believe that she deserves to be on the list, but we'll need a better source.--Harout72 (talk) 14:11, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Sadly not but let me add that the source with the 50 million units (published by Oricon) includes albums AND singles. The source for the digital sales doesn't count singles only. As I said, the source by Oricon says that she has sold 50 million records sold. The article was published in 2012 and as I said, Oricon counts physical sales only. I hope we do not misunderstand each other here but the source for the digital sales doesn't state her single sales only. It states legal downloads, so it also includes non-single downloads etc..

Also, since you asked for another news outlet because you need a better source: Oricon actually is the best source and I don't see the problem with combining her physical and digital sales since both were published by Oricon, the number one source for sales in Japan. I hope that my comment doesn't sound rude in any way! — Preceding unsigned comment added by TioTayumi (talk • contribs) 15:35, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

I went over again the source by Oricon that states 50 million, and I believe you're right, the source does say 50 million for albums and singles sales combined. OK, let me work on bringing her onto the list. I should have her on the list within the next couple days.--Harout72 (talk) 02:16, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Thank you very much! I just wanted to ask if you will put a picture of her on the list too, since she's the second japanese artist overall and the first japanese solo- and female artist to make it onto the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TioTayumi (talk • contribs) 05:32, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Fix The Who's certification

Please subtract 500,000 units out of the Who's US certification: 22.150 million which is a false number as the false 500,000 added units was added because of the soundtrack of Tommy being certified Gold, but according to the RIAA website the soundtrack to Tommy is not credited to the Who, but to soundtrack and if you think im not telling the truth the Who's album certifications are 21 million, so if the the Tommy soundtrack was added it would 21.5 million which is false so the real certifications would be 21.6 with the dvd sales and the real total would be 26.2 not 26.7. Clayallen90 (talk) 19:12, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

RIAA also often times doesn't list the names of featured artists, but they are credited and also included here on the list. However, other certifying bodies including BPI do list the name of The Who for Tommy (Soundtrack)".--Harout72 (talk) 00:25, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Beyonce

I believe Beyonce's sales that are listed at 85 million are inaccurate, considering that the main article used is from 2011 and that on her own Wikipedia page there is an article from 2013 saying that shes crossed 100 million. I am calling for someone to make an edit adjusting the numbers to be updated to 2016! also, a website called ATRL has forums which are user run that has pages related to the sales of artists, and they put Beyonce at around 166m and around 195 including streams. The website is down at the time that I am writing this but in the past when I looked at it I believe that they gave valid sources for each claimed sales figure for her albums and singles. Additionally, in November someone named under "Louiereveals" emailed Nielsen Soundscan and requested Beyonce's sales figures from them. I talked with him on his twitter account and he took screenshots of the email conversation he had with one of their reps for me. Can we use his article or should he have included the screenshots/ or would a source directly from a report from Nielsen be the only acceptable source to use? 208.53.111.54 (talk) 07:00, 1 February 2017 (UTC)@vaicyon on twitter

Rihanna

Harout, her certification sales already pass Elvis Presley. I think we should move her records sales up to 230 million and change the information on the list that she is the highest selling selling solo artist based on certification only. Need your opinion. Thanks Politsi (talk) 09:25, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

I believe it's time we considered the 230 million claim. Which source did you have in mind? I'm thinking we can add the 230 and also keep the 200 million claim as well, at least until she reaches some 220 million with her certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 16:22, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

LA Times (50 million albums and 180 million singles) and Vogue (50 million albums and 180 million singles) --Rudeby88 (talk) 19:06, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

LA Times is good but NOT from Vogue. Harout, I think we should erase her 200m-records claim because it's not reliable since her certification already pass 213 million, it's already higher than 200m. Also we should change the information of the list and put Rihanna as the best-selling solo artist in certification sales only. Thanks Politsi (talk) 03:00, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Well, if we deduct the over certified units due to Streaming, the US certified singles total comes down by 19.6 million units. So that takes it below the 200 million. I think we should keep it for now. We should really not ignore the fact that newer artists' certified sales are almost always over certified because of the streaming. By the way, even LA Times these days claim only 200 million records for Rihanna.--Harout72 (talk) 03:32, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Okay then, I will bring back her 200m-records claim and also I make some change in the list. I hope is reliable. ThanksPolitsi (talk) 03:48, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi. What do you mean the US certified singles total comes down by 19.6 million units? That's incorrect. She's the top RIAA certified artist as you can see here: https://twitter.com/RIAA/status/735123748932755456 and https://twitter.com/RIAA/status/697553873431453696 and you can also see it in RIAA's website that she's the top certified singles artist with 117.5 million certified units by now. https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=top_tallies&ttt=TAS#search_section PauloMaciel (talk) 03:36, 10 February 2017 (UTC)PauloMaciel

By the way, please check the other section I made about Rihanna PauloMaciel (talk) 03:43, 10 February 2017 (UTC)PauloMaciel

Including single sales / single downloads

Is it industry STANDARD to include SINGLE SALES in overall sales of an artist? I ask because I don't believe it is. On any Billboard article addressing sales, such as this one http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/267631/ask-billboard-madonna-vs-whitney-vs-mariah , we are only given RIAA sales from ALBUMS/CDs. It is absolutely not standard to tag on single sales to that list, and even less common to tag on a digital download of a single.

I bring this up because, out of all fairness, if digital downloads existed during Elvis', the Beatles', Mariah or Celine's prime, random songs from their albums would have also sold copies and charted, but this simply was not even an option. We aren't comparing apples to apples here when we try to add in Rihanna's digital sales of random songs to her ALBUM sales.

It's simply not standard by industry magazines (and cited by the Billboard article before) to include single sales, physical or digital, when tabulating overall sales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.106.211.123 (talk) 19:06, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Here is another example by Billboard in Dec. of 2016 regarding Madonna: http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/7617649/ask-billboard-madonnas-career-album-sales

They mention her downloaded single figure at the end of the article as a SEPARATE number, and do not add it to her overall number reported earlier. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.106.211.123 (talk) 19:10, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Ayumi Hamasaki; and One Question

Harrot72,

I found some interesting add-up on our article, "Ayumi Hamasaki". Except Japan, it is a little bit ambigious that she has reached over 80 ~ 83 Millions because her information has recognized very slowly. Then, I checked your sources written by Japanese. But becasue of my lack of language fluency, I get a problem to gather total certificated sales as you've shown it '64 Million' although I tried to calcuated Gold, Platinum, Double One, and so on. So, Is there any clips of Certificated Sales explained by English without translation from Japanes into English? Only English. I'm afriad I might told you some rude things.

And here is one more question.

[External Links were given so that I deleted something.]

I understood if we updated 50 Millions the table becomes too big to take it. You has updated these Standards and you once told these are based on Global Market, RIAA and other beliveable source (ex. 90% of 77% in 2015 = 70%, 1990 = 60%). Then, you considered Japanese Market Exception which is known Western Artists hadn't get much sales Until 2000s. But, Year by year our criteria seems very changeable that many readers must notice it regularly. I wonder why 2012~2014 and 2015~2016 are very different. I think mass of ditital sales and album sales do not change very harsh based on past sales. 1970s 1980s 1990s were over and these certificated sales rarely increased. But here is considerable significant alteration on our criteria. Thanks to read it.

220.121.137.135 (talk) 02:38, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

See this file for Ayumi's detailed certified sales. I have specific dates posted next to certifications. In the sources provided at the bottom of the file, navigate through the months and years as desired. You need to copy and paste each viewed month into Google translator in order to see them in English. I'm afraid I can't quite understand the rest of your questions.--Harout72 (talk) 02:49, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for guiding me a simple way to measure Ayumi Hamasaki's music sales. I read it and I understood what you mean. I tried your one and I also got a point. Very Thankful and kind.

Actually I was having my lunch in my Asian Hours, while you were typing an answer. I couldn't edited my whole questions. Sorry for that. Then, I try to make it more readable.

Just an hours ago, I found a new table on your article named "Hamasaki". Eric Clapton was also my curious point because he hasn't got his claimed sales. That made him not be on our list. Thus, I sent you an question when I was searching some clips for Eric and Hamasaki. On this way, I also saw an article that someone put their questions on Archive 32 and Archive 34 by throwing back and back to Archive 1.

Talk:List_of_best-selling_music_artists/Archive_32#The_Criteria_has_changed_again.21

Talk:List_of_best-selling_music_artists/Archive_34#Eric_Clapton

Talk:List_of_best-selling_music_artists/Archive_34#Some_questions_for_certifications

They are based on the generated sales by the music markets whose certified sales we look at. The music markets we use cover the 90% of global sales. That is 90% since 2009 to present, Italy being the recent market making its certifications available online. For the most recent artists, we require only 90% certified sales of the sales that all of the music markets combined generate, which is 80%. For more information about the global portion each market represents, see the bottom portion of the second yellow box on this talk page. By the year 2000, for example, we have 77.9% of the global sales generated by the markets we look at, and the 90% of that is 70%, therefore, our requirement is 70% for the year 2000. The same patters is followed for the year 1990. —Harout 72

In fact, the requirements are based on the 2010, and in 2010 Japan's music market share was 25% of the entire global music sales. But I have applied only 15% of it to 1989, and the rest of the 10% was applied to 2006 as their digital certification system was launched in 2006. I made an exception only because most of the western artists don't do well in the Japanese music market. I have posted all of the details above in the yellow box from the top on this page, each music market's size is specified based on the year 2010. —Harout 72

These were your answer to them.

To be on this list, artists who began charting:

before 1975 are required to have their available claimed figures supported by 20% in certified units.

between 1990 = 64%

between 2000 = 70%

between 2000–present = 70~80%

The global-market-share countries represented in 2010.

USA: RIAA (1958) (22.5%) · Japan: RIAJ (Physical certifications since 1989),RIAJ (Digital certifications) (2006) (25%) · Germany: BVMI (1975) ·

[ellipsis]

Finland (1971) (0.49)% Ireland (2005) (0.48) New Zealand (1978) (0.35)

These are our Standard.

I was also wondering why our criterion usually changes year by year, despite your answer and our reliable sources which already known as accurate data.

By our article, Since 2010 or at least 2014, we long ago recognized that our proper standard is 20% - 64% - 70%.

However, In 2012 it was 15% - 35% - 50%

2013 20% - 40% - 60%

2014 it was 20% - 45% - 70%

2015 20% - 60% - 70%

Talk:List_of_best-selling_music_artists/Archive_17#New_suggestion

Talk:List_of_best-selling_music_artists/Archive_30#Robbie_Williams_with_77_million_albums_and_singles

In sum up, I wondered why 2013~2014 and 2015~2016 are sharply different.

--220.121.137.135 (talk) 04:40, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Dalida

Hi. According to the article she's sold more than 170 million records. I'd like to ask how many certified sales does Dalida have? Jojnee (talk) 22:15, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Katy perry update

Finally a source for katy perry Her company honored her last night for sales of 165 ww 40 mil albums and 125 singles

And 18 billion streams

2A02:8109:B2C0:CA0:3CED:1990:323C:5010 (talk) 09:51, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

I think this link ((source)) which is Yahoo who they took from katy perry's company site and other sites that she was honored for her 10 years and sales.... Ect Is indeed a legit source.

And not to forget that her certificated sales are higher than the claimed and this source can help to put her in the right place.. Since all of you were asking for a source like ""yahoo"" that helps to raise her claimed sales as it must be according to her certificated sales

And soon after the new single and the album she will be higher 👆 in certificated sales again and I hope we find a new source for it... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:B2C0:CA0:F949:E400:38E6:20A7 (talk) 16:15, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

This list doesn't use sources such a yahoo, not to mention that that figure is inflated for promotional purposes. You might also want to read the Definitions on the main page as this list requires certain amount of certified sales based on the first year artists begin to chart. That said, Perry has begun charting in 2008, therefore her claims need to be supported by 75.2% certified sales. So an inflated sales figure such as 165 million, need to be supported by 124 million certified units at least. But even if Perry reaches that mark with her certified sales, much lower sales figures than 165 million will be used here, if at all available.--Harout72 (talk) 02:39, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Aerosmith

Hi Harout72, i´m not seeing Australia in Aeromsith certified sales section. I Don’t Want to Miss a Thing was certified 2x Platinum in 1998 [3] that means thay have at least 140.000 certified units there. I wanna know if Australia is already included and someone just forgot to put in the article or if Australia isn´t included in the certified sales. And by the way i wanna thank you for all your amazing work with the certifications documents.--Jlo Fan 1999 (Talk) 17:37, 19. Feb. 2017 (CET)

Thanks for bringing this up, strangely enough I'd only noticed their Platinum for the video posted in 2009. I added both.--Harout72 (talk) 18:16, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Updating Lady Gaga

Hi! I believe Lady Gaga's sales need to be updated. Here's an article from Billboard that should have all the necessary info to update. http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6836620/lady-gaga-signs-caa — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattporter697 (talk • contribs) 05:28, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 February 2017

Lady Gaga's sales need to be updated. http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6836620/lady-gaga-signs-caa This Billboard article should suffice. Mattporter697 (talk) 05:33, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

 Not done please read the top of the page to understand how the certification and sales are tallied. —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 06:13, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Rihanna

Billboard said that Rihanna has sold 54 million albums and 210 million singles in this article: . This was when she just released ANTI, so it doesn't have ANTI sales. And since then, she has released some singles too. ANTI has sold 1,578,000 pure copies WW and it is certified 2x Multi-Platinum by RIAA (2,000,000). . Work has sold 4,600,000 copies ww and is certified 5x Multi Platinum by RIAA. Kiss it Better has sold 600,000 copies ww and is certified Platinum by RIAA. Needed Me has sold 2,000,000 copies ww and is certified 4x Multi Platinum by RIAA. Love On The Brain has sold 800,000 copies ww and is certified Platinum by RIAA. All these certifications you can check here:

So, before ANTI, Rihanna sold 54 million albums and 210 million singles. Now, with the ANTi album and singles, she has sold 56 million albums and 221 million singles = 277 million records. I don't know if you use only the estimate pure sales or the certified ones, but I added up the certified copies to the Billboard claimed sales. You could put that she sold 275,000,000 records I think. I don't know how this works here lol but you could check these things I said.

There is another section of Rihanna in this talk page, but I didn't know if I should edit that one or create another one, so I created this one.

PauloMaciel (talk) 03:19, 10 February 2017 (UTC)PauloMaciel

By the way, she has 117.5 million certified units (singles) by RIAA https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=top_tallies&ttt=TAS#search_section so only in USA she has sold 117.5 million singles. She's the top certified singles artist by RIAA https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=top_tallies&ttt=TAS#search_section https://twitter.com/RIAA/status/735123748932755456 https://twitter.com/RIAA/status/697553873431453696 PauloMaciel (talk) 03:41, 10 February 2017 (UTC)PauloMaciel

You should familiarize yourself with the way this list is operated. A good starting point for that would be reading the lead and the definitions.--Harout72 (talk) 05:10, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

I did read it. So, are you going to put at least the Billboard claimed sales? 201.37.162.148 (talk) 15:18, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Well, obviously you didn't understand it. We will put that claimed sales once her certified sales are pushed up. (Probably in like a year or so). — Tom^(T2ME) 16:32, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

"the 29-year-old singer has gone on to sell 60 million albums and more than 200 million digital tracks throughout her career." Via LA Times http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-entertainment-news-updates-this-year-s-harvard-humanitarian-of-the-1487870006-htmlstory.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.37.162.148 (talk) 18:58, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

"are expected to have their claimed figures supported by over 75% in certified units" Her certified sales are already over 75% of claimed figures by Billboard and LA Times...201.37.162.148 (talk) 19:04, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Did you read the Definitions in the lead of the list? It clearly states:

• 1) The claimed figures are upgraded only when there is a significant progress in artists' certified sales. In other words, the available certified sales for each artist should get relatively closer to already listed claimed figure in order for higher figures to replace the listed ones
• 2) The certified sales of the newer artists may sometimes be higher than their listed claimed figures. This is because Recording Industry Association of America and almost all other certifying bodies count streaming towards Gold and Platinum thresholds required for Digital Single Award certification.

There is a huge number of streaming involved in Rihanna's and all other newer artists' certified sales which have helped to push their certified sales quite high.--Harout72 (talk) 01:43, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 February 2017

Hi. Since numerous trusted sources (for example, CBS - http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-gradual-success-helped-beyonce-28-01-2010/) claim that Beyonce has sold 118 million records and she currently has 76.3 (which is over the needed 75% for 100 million) million certified units, it would be logical to move her to the 100 million section.

Here's a link from a trusted source stating she has sold over 100 million records - http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-beyonce-album-review-beyonce-self-titled-album-reviewed-20131214-column.html BeKay.7 (talk) 13:25, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Once Beyonce reaches the 80 million mark with her certified sales, we can upgrade her from her 85 million claim to 100 million.--Harout72 (talk) 16:43, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 February 2017

Please add Dolly Parton to the list of artists who have sold 100 million albums. She was recognized for this in 2014. http://www.axs.com/news/dolly-parton-honored-for-100-million-albums-sold-13398 Jessemichaelhix (talk) 09:42, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Dolly Parton cannot be added to the list due to her lack of certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 14:35, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Katy perry 2017

And another source for the sales Her certificated sales are 119 and the claimed as her company says are 40 mil albums 125 singles 18 billion streams

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/katy-perry-honored-for-global-sales-of-40-million-adjusted-albums-and-125-million-tracks-300405963.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:B2C0:CA0:E95F:91FA:EEAF:F66 (talk) 17:41, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Garth Brooks

Harout, when Brooks's certification over 160 million (161m-more). Is it reliable to move him up with 190m-records claim? what do you think?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 08:15, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

We should use the 190 million claim when he's much higher than 160, maybe when he's at 170 million. Because Garth Brooks has 4 multi-disc albums, and each one in the CD case is counted as one unit when certified by the RIAA. His recent The Ultimate Collection has 10 discs, each one of which has been certified Platinum individually by the RIAA.--Harout72 (talk) 13:59, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Pink

Why is Pink not included on this list? Her certified sales sit at around 83.16 million (albums, singles and videos combined), while claimed sales exceed 100 million. Thank you! Iggy Ax (talk) 17:39, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Green Day

Harout, need your help. Green Day just releasing their new album last year, is it their total sales quite enough to bring their back to the list with 75m-records claim? Need your help, Thanks Politsi (talk) 09:18, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Their available certified sales are at 47.4 million, they need 49.8 million for a 75 million claim. They might get to that mark in a matter of months, if there is a single or album in the US that has reached the next certification level but has yet to be re-certified. Otherwise, the rest of the markets are not going to be able to generate 2.4 million in a short amount of time.--Harout72 (talk) 16:22, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Alla Pugacheva

According to the Encyclopedia Britanica, by year 1997 Alla Pugacheva have sold over 250 million records. And she is still active. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Alla-Pugacheva

(PS. Sales of India, China or Spanish records?) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.34.169.133 (talk) 04:13, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 March 2017

182.185.111.103 (talk) 20:03, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Add Depeche Mode to the List of Best Selling Artist of All Times.... They have sold more than 120 Millions records and counting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depeche_Mode#cite_note-50Bands-3

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. - Mlpearc (open channel) 20:08, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 March 2017

In 2010 ABBA gathered in London to recieve an award for selling more than 375 milion albums by Lucian Grainge (Chariman and CEO for Universal Music Group International)

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/959597/abba-members-attend-abbaworld-london-premiere

4 years later, an article from BBC claims the pop group has sold 400 million albums.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-26901044

CHANGE ABBAs claimed record sales to 400 million,

MOVE THEM UP to category "250 million or more records". Inridia (talk) 18:04, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Read the Definitions on the main page.--Harout72 (talk) 00:27, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Request Coldplay file

Please give me latest Coldplay certification file, thank you Sambuu (Sambuu) 09:29, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Here you are.--Harout72 (talk) 08:11, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Status Quo

We not gonna talk about how these guys have sold 118 million albums worldwide despite not having a single Gold album in the US? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.194.66.146 (talk) 19:35, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

David Bowie

I was wondering why is David Bowie stated as having sold 100 million albums, when there are a number of sources stating otherwise i.e. http://fortune.com/2016/01/11/david-bowie-career-sales/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20944291 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/12092955/David-Bowie-The-legendary-singer-in-numbers.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mohamed Ahtash (talk • contribs) 20:05, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

He has only 29kk with certified sales, artists like Barbra Streisand has more than 97kk and are listed as 150kk. Those Bowie' sales seems inflated by his record company.--88marcus (talk) 00:27, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Bruno Mars (124m-records)

Harout, I've seen his certification sales has over 104 million. Today I've decided to move him up with 124m-claim with this source (http://www.kjrh.com/about-us/news-releases/swon-brothers-live-watch-party-at-hard-rock-hotel-casino-for-the-finale-of-the-voice-season-4) from KJRH-TV. I think it's reliable and this is the only source I've found for his 124m-claim. If you think Mars is not ready to use that claim or the source is un-reliable. Just undo it. Thanks. Politsi (talk) 18:31, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

It's fine, I'm sure his certified sales will soon be higher than 104 million.--Harout72 (talk) 02:16, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 April 2017

ABBA was supposed to sell over 375 million records, making them the fourth best-selling music artists in the history of music. 62.198.165.244 (talk) 23:02, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

 Not done: unsourced ProgrammingGeek ^talktome 23:53, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Rhianna is not the highest certified artist

Remove the line that Rhianna is the highest certified artist, in the write up at the beginning. She is not. The list states quite clearly that The Beatles have 270m certified units, some 50m+ more than Rhianna. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tatty73 (talk • contribs) 17:12, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

This line says that Rihanna is the highest-selling INDIVIDUAL artist based on certified units which is true. Nobody said that she is the highest certified artist overall. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mary1853 (talk • contribs) 22:24, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Maroon 5

Harout, need your help?. Are they ready to enter the list with 75m-claim? How many of his certification sales so far?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 16:49, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

They need 53.5 million certified units, they are already at 52.4 million. Still 1 million certified units short, they should be there in a month or so, maybe even sooner if the RIAA issues certifications for them. I'll keep my eye on them.--Harout72 (talk) 02:14, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Harout, it's so close for them. Need your help. Politsi (talk) 17:55, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Katy Perry (165m-claim)

Harout, Perry's certification sales has reach 120 million. We can use this source (http://www.smobserved.com/story/2017/02/22/entertainment/katy-perry-unleashes-new-single-chained-to-the-rhythm/2606.html) for 165m-claim of her, that source is come from The Santa Monica Observer, a free weekly print newspaper of general circulation and interest, founded in Santa Monica, California in 1998. And this is only reliable source I've found so far. When we can move her up with that claim?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 17:00, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Politsi, the 165 million is an inflated figure for Perry. First, she has to have at least 124 million certified units, but even when she reaches that mark, we should not use any claimed figures that's higher than 130-135 million. Currently, her entire US certified sales goes down by 16 million when we bring in her actual sales for her singles, and albums.--Harout72 (talk) 02:34, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Well, at least now we have a new claim for her. Perry just release her new albums and I believe she will reach that claim within several months. I think when Perry has at least 140m in certification sales, we could use that claim. Thanks Politsi (talk) 17:57, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

minor miscalculation

Bruno Mars' US certified sales are actually 74 million not 73. His total units are well summarised, it's just this one little mistake. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mary1853 (talk • contribs) 21:15, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Take a look at this file and tell me what's missing. Because I just added all of the US Gold and Platinum awards, and it's 63 million singles and 10 million albums.--Harout72 (talk) 02:44, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Young, wild & free is actually 4x platinum, not 3x as it's in the file.

And btw, 24K Magic (album) has been certified platinum in UK so far. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mary1853 (talk • contribs) 22:29, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

And second btw, That's what I like has been certified gold in Belgium and Sweden. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mary1853 (talk • contribs) 18:25, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

David Bowie's main article

Hi, everybody. I know that is different article but both are tied. I ask help here to know what sales are more accurate for David Bowie. In the main article, shows that is 140 million record. Personally, I put before 100 million records but was reverted. If somebody can talk in the David Bowie article, please. Chrishonduras (Diskussion) 19:40, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Chris, I've been involve in fight with the editor at Bowie's bio page about his inflated sales figure and try make it match with the claim sales in this list. Same situation like I did at Lady Gaga's, Queen's, and Donna Summer's bio page. The editor in their bio page is a dying hard fans. They refuse the lowest claim sales from this list and insist to use the highest one, perhaps for promotional purpose. So, just let them done that as long as they don't try to screw up this list. Politsi (talk) 07:02, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, Politsi but there is not any permission to be a Ownership of content. Don't be afraid to report this situation (in the future) and reach a consensus by Wikipedia's guidelines and policies. Now, we have more comments from other users. Chrishonduras (Diskussion) 07:22, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

R. Kelly (100m-records)

Harout, need your help to check his current certification sales total. Perhaps there is a re-certification and it adequate to bring him to the list with 100m claim. If his certification make him eligible to get the 100m claim. We should give him a place. Thanks. Politsi (talk) 00:30, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

He's still 11 million certified units short. For a claim as high as 100 million, he needs to have 65.8% or 65.8 million certified units as his first year on the charts is 1993. He's at 54.4 million for now.--Harout72 (talk) 02:02, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

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Backstreet Boys Swiss sales

Millennium was certified platinum twice under two different labels so its sales should be 100,000 not 50,000. Could you update their Swiss sales to 465,000 please? 103.39.15.150 (talk) 22:10, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Lady Gaga 174 million records sold

"Those musical accomplishments include more than 146 million singles and more than 27 million albums sold" http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6836620/lady-gaga-signs-caa Gleekunicorns (talk) 07:33, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — IVORK _Discuss 07:51, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 May 2017

Change Rihanna's total "worldwide record sales from 200 - 230 million to 275 million", Rihanna sold 275 million records "which is 60 million from album sales and 215 million from digital tracks according to Roc Nation music label" which is she signed to. The link is, " http://rocnation.com/rihanna/ " Update the "best selling music artists list which Rihanna is supposed to be below Madonna" and her worldwide sales please, thank you ... Eos Buddy (talk) 10:17, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

@Eos Buddy: Not done. Please read the definitions to include or move an artist. Chrishonduras (Diskussion) 10:23, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Change Lady Gaga's caimed sales from "114 million" to "173 million"

Change Lady Gaga's caimed sales from "114 million" to "173 million", based on Billboard.

"Those musical accomplishments include more than 146 million singles and more than 27 million albums sold" http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6836620/lady-gaga-signs-caa Gleekunicorns (talk) 14:43, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Read the Definitions on the main page.--Harout72 (talk) 19:32, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 May 2017

Hi,

I just wanted to say that Jennifer Lopez is missing from this page. She has sold over 80 million records worldwide and this can be checked on various websites especially her Wikipedia and has also been mentioned on a Wendy Williams show when she introduced her onto the show.

Thanks 2A02:C7F:223C:7700:6870:EA6:77D1:B961 (talk) 19:02, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Those figures for Lopez are just inflated for promotional purposes. This list requires certain amount of certified sales for all artists that are listed based on the first year they chart. So far her certified sales stand at 34.2 million but she needs 55.5 million as she's begun charting in 1999.--Harout72 (talk) 00:52, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

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Chris Brown's record sales

Can I have a link of Chris Brown's certified sales? Billboard said something about him selling over 45 million singles in the U.S alone so I'm assuming by now in addition with his album sales he should be somewhere around 75 million records, that is if his label updates his sales or leaves them in the dust like what Beyonce does.

Thanks in advance(190.80.50.137 (talk) 13:27, 22 May 2017 (UTC))

Please find a reliable source from prestigious news organization for Brown's 75m-records claim.Politsi (talk) 08:01, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is a reliable source and tbh I wasn't even trying to get him on the list. I just wanted to know what his certified sales were and by judging from your response he's probably eligible. Here's a link from an article I found. https://www.golden1center.com/news/detail/chris-brown-announces-the-party-tour — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.80.50.137 (talk) 22:09, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Doubt: Sales of the Denmark's certification of George Michael's Older.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the 7x platinum of George Michael's album Older means 350,000, not 140,000 since it was released in 1996. In countries like Brazil it's that way (Madonna's Ray of Light case there/ Michael Jackson's Thriller in Mexico...), and when I put that the album was certified 7x platinum in the certification table, it automatically shows 350,000, not 140,000...--88marcus (talk) 00:56, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Yeah I thought so too, but it turns out, IFPI Denmark has been applying its most recent certification levels since July 2012 to albums and singles regardless when the records are released. See where it says Certificeringer sker altid efter de gældende kriterier, uanset hvornår udgivelsen er udgivet.. But you're right, most certification bodies apply certification levels based on when records are released, with an exception of SNEP and RIAA. I'm not sure if Denmark began doing this in July 2012 or it's been doing this since the beginning. All I know that statement appears in July 2012, the earlier months don't have that very line. See for example June 2012. So for the time being I'll be following the rule that appears in July 2012 only for that month and onward.--Harout72 (talk) 01:12, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank You! ;)--88marcus (talk) 01:42, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Chris Brown (79m-claim)

Harout, I think we should see his certification sales. Perhaps it could support the 79m-claim. I think this is a reliable source for the sales (http://www.tbnweekly.com/editorial/local_entertainment/concerts/content_articles/041017_leconcert-06.txt) from TBN Weekly. Need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 17:20, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Chris Brown has begun charting in 2005, meaning his 79 million claim must be supported by 73.3% certified sales or 57.9 million certified units. His certified sales currently stand at 39.8 million.--Harout72 (talk) 00:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks.. Now we have Nicky Minaj, Maroon 5, Green Day, and Chris Brown on going to enter the list. Hopefully we can welcoming them sooner. Politsi (talk) 16:08, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Katy perry

It's really getting Annoying that her certificated sales 124 and yet she's still low in her claimed ones !!!! Can't you make something? I'm sure there are some sources to support more higher claims!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:B2C0:CA0:FC9C:FB26:5DE5:7C18 (talk) 17:30, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

elton john

WHY IS THE DIAMOND CERT LION KING NOT INCLUDED IN ELTON JOHN CERT TOTAL THATS A 10 MILLION INCREASE AND WHY DOES GBYR NOT GET UP GRADED TO 16 MILLION WHEN EVERY OTHER DOUBLE ALBUMS BY SUCH ARTISTS AS BILLY JOEL AND LED ZEP GET COUNTED TWICE YET GBYR DOES NOT SO THAT WOULD BE A FURTHER 16 MILLION ON ELTONS TOTAL — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.75.190.85 (talk) 06:19, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

First, avoid typing in caps. Second, why would The Lion King (soundtrack) be included when it has 12 tracks, and only 3 tracks are performed by Elton John? And what is GBYR?--Harout72 (talk) 13:26, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Coldplay

A Head Full of Dreams has been certified Platinum in Portugal
Source : https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx-9l-dnxzImQlNzOVJBY1YtdVU --User:Esambuu (talk) 11:10, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

We don't add the certifications of Portugal. It's unnecessary to include the certifications of such a tiny music market. Plus their earlier certification levels are not known.--Harout72 (talk) 03:49, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Harout, when we can move them up to 100m club?. Their certification has reach 70m and I have a reliable source for their 100m claim. Thanks Politsi (talk) 07:42, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Let them get to 75 million and we will. Do we already have a source for 100 million mark?--Harout72 (talk) 13:07, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Of cource, and here the source (http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/14126481.Coldplay_drummer_s_journey_from_Hampshire_primary_school_to_the_Superbowl/?ref=mr&lp=14) from Southern Daily Echo. They just release a new EP, hopefully we can welcoming them to the 100m-club. Thanks Politsi (talk) 14:39, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Are we not supposed to avoid the use of tabloid newspapers? Hopefully, soon we'll have another source claiming that figure.--Harout72 (talk) 16:45, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Harout, this is the first and only reliable source so far, who's said Coldplay sold 100m-records. Of course this is a tabloid newspaper but the contain is not about gossip or entertaintment but same like another broadsheet newspaper and it is still a news organization. We can use it for temporary, and now we need your help to keep on eye on their certification sales until it adequate to support the 100m-claim. Thanks Politsi (talk) 17:35, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

They already reached 70.5 certified sales. In your methodology, the already reached 100M claim. If their 70.5 certified units are about 75% of total claimed sales. They reached 100.7M sales. User Esambuu — Preceding unsigned comment added by Esambuu (talk • contribs) 13:01, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

There is a streaming issue for a recent artist since 2000s, that's why we should be carefully calculate their real certification sales before update their claim sales. As for coldplay, it will be safe to put them at 100m club when their certification reach at least 75m. Politsi (talk) 12:01, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Okay. But we have 1 big problem. It's Coldplay's US certification issue. Coldplay was contracted with Capitol Records until 2013. After that Coldplay transferred to Atlantic records. So Coldplay's first 5 albums and singles are all by Capitol Records. Unfortunately, they have no interest to certified their former artist sales certification. US is biggest music market. So Coldplay's first 5 albums and singles certifications are outdated. Only Ghost Stories, A Head Full of Dreams era records sales are proof. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Esambuu (talk • contribs) 10:10, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Harout, do you have any comment about this? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 15:29, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm not seeing major problems with Capitol's re-certifications for all albums. Parachutes (album) has last been certified 2x Platinum in December 2003. The previous Platinum was issued in January 2002, almost two years earlier. The Capitol records had another 10 years to re-certify it had it reached higher sales levels. The same with A Rush of Blood to the Head, it's last been certified 4x Platinum in October 2005. The previous 3x Platinum was issued in December 2003, almost two years earlier. Had it reached higher sales levels, Capitol had eight years to re-certify it. While the certification dates are not as far apart for X&Y and Viva La Vida, the Capitol records still had years to re-certify these albums had they also reached higher sales levels. Surely, there could be a 1-2 million units of certified sales missing here and there, but it shouldn't be anything major. Anyways, being aware of all that, the certified sales requirements are set at 90% of sales generated by music market offering their certifications based on the years the artists begin to chart. --Harout72 (talk) 02:17, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 June 2017

I request to be allowed to edit this page, the content about Britney Spears and Rihanna in particular. Trisyorkli (talk) 14:00, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you. DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 19:43, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 June 2017

There's no good or consistent reason why Justin Bieber's nationality is listed as United States as well as Canada. It should just be Canada. 2607:FEA8:871F:FB75:98D6:7308:C7E5:D071 (talk) 04:22, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Nationality? Where did you read anything about his nationality? The music market he's from is the US, and that's what the column Country/Market stands for. In fact, Canada shouldn't be mentioned at all as he's been residing in the US ever since he was signed in the US, which is also the country where most of his music is produced.--Harout72 (talk) 04:49, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Drake

Hello, I would like to point out that Drake is very much passed the required certified sales to make the list. I have compiled a list of his certified sales in Harout's fashion. My biggest problem though is finding an article that states his all-time record sales. If anyone can help me find an article that states that he sold between 75-95 million records, I believe Drake can be put onto the list. --Bobtinin (talk) 23:44, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Nana Mouskouri

Nana Mouskouri is one of the best selling female artists of all time - and yet she's not on the list at all. Clearly a mistake.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nana_Mouskouri — Preceding unsigned comment added by 29design (talk • contribs) 11:39, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Jay-Z and Tupac Shakur

Jay-Z does not have certified sales in the numbers given in the article. His certified sales amount to 26 million against Tupac Shakur's (2PAC) 36.5 million as can be clearly seen here. In addition Tupac Shakur bears claims of over 75 million sales which is why he should be on the list according to the criteria laid out. The erroneous claims about Jay-Z should also be cleared up, both here and on his article where they are replicated. The numbers don't add up anywhere, even when the single sales of 14 million are included. In fact, not even the falsely sourced numbers equal the given total sum of certified sales. I expect a worthy explaination to something this blatantly wrong. Praxis Icosahedron ϡ (TALK) 00:21, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Remain civil with your posts, nothing is corrupt on the list. Jay-Z's US certified sales alone are 76.7 million units, see this file. Shakur's global certified sales are just under 47 million units, see this file. Since Shakur has begun charting in 1991, his claimed figures need to be supported by 64.6% certified sales, or 48.4 million certified units to be listed with 75 million claim, which is not far from what he already has. But as far as the certified sales for both artists go, they are correct.--Harout72 (talk) 02:23, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

The article states "All artists included on this list, which have begun charting on official albums or singles charts have their available claimed figures supported by at least 20% in certified units." Shakur, who began recording in 1991, is required to have 64.6% but the rationale for this is not given anywhere. Apparently there seems to be some arbitrary "equation" in play here? Please enlighten us. The source you've given for Jay-Z is moreover not a reliable one (a makeshift document uploaded to media fire!?). The RIAA website clearly demonstrates that Shakur has more certified album sales than Jay-Z, easily verifiable for anyone to see, whereas Jay-Z has more certified single sales. According to the RIAA website Jay-Z has 16 million certified units as far as singles are concerned, whereas your document claims 47,6 million? I just can't get my head around this discrepancy. What is more, should single sales really trump album sales? Praxis Icosahedron ϡ (TALK) 11:59, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

The detailed requirements for the certified sales based on the year artists begin to chart are in the notes section. The files provided are not meant to pass as reliable sources, the certified sales complied on the files however are all retrieved from RIAA, BPI, Bundeverband Musikindustrie, SNEP and so on. Each market on the file has its source(s), where they've been directly retrieved from, posted at the bottom. As for Jay-Z's RIAA certification, the file contains all certifications posted on here at the RIAA website. Jay-Z has many singles that he's collaborated on with other artists, which are listed under the artist he's collaborated with including "Umbrella" by Rihanna which has gone 6x Platinum just in the US, or "Drunk in Love" by Beyonce which has gone 3x Platinum just in US.--Harout72 (talk) 12:17, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Harout, I think Tupac may actually be able to get onto the list! If you add on his records under his other name "Makaveli", then that gives him 4 million more records just from the United States. If you put him on the list as "Tupac Shakur" rather than just "2Pac", then I think this would be completely legitimate. This is really exciting, the legend Tupac may be able to get onto the list. --Bobtinin (talk) 00:17, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

That should not be added to his total as it's released under a completely different stage name. Either way, I don't think it'll take that long for him to appear on the list as he's only 1.4 million certified units away.--Harout72 (talk) 01:58, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Hello again. If you look at the album I was citing, the credits go to 2Pac/Makaveli. There is no difference between 2Pac or Makaveli, he was just doing a little rebranding in the same way that Sean Combs is credited in his albums as both "Diddy" or "Puff Daddy". And plus I think it would be safe to make an exception here knowing that some of the songs from "The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory" happen to be solely under the name 2Pac for some compilation albums released afterwords. --Bobtinin (talk) 00:43, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

While I see credits also go to other 4-5 artists, I think it's reasonable to add that album to his total. Let me work on this, and I'll put him up on the list in a day or two at the most.--Harout72 (talk) 13:16, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

BIGBANG

BIGBANG sold over 140 MILLION records worldwide. why aren't they on the list ? [4]

✗ Not done: Unfortunately there are virtually no certifications available for sales, be they digital or physical/CD in South Korea. Due to this, BIGBANG cannot be added. Even TVXQ!, who have sold more albums, have had a longer career and have been more successful in Japan, the world's second-biggest music market, only have 5.5 million in certifications.--Mαuri^’96 “everything and nothing always haunts me…” 01:04, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm seeing only 2.150 million certified units in Japan. I'm not sure how they could've sold another some 135 million in the rest of the Asia pacific where music markets are quite tiny.--Harout72 (talk) 02:26, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

What I meant was that the other Korean group, TVXQ!, have 5.5 million in RIAJ certs. Concerning Big Bang, nearly 60% of the 140 million records claim is from uncertified downloads in South Korea, of which only 46.1 million are verifiable sales recorded on Korea's Gaon Chart since 2010. --Mαuri^’96 “everything and nothing always haunts me…” 19:24, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

TVXQ don't seem to have any certifications in Japan, see this database for physicals, and this for digitals, enter the name in the upper right box and hit enter, nothing comes up in either. As for Big Bang, how do you check whether or not your given number (46%) of sales are verifiable?--Harout72 (talk) 20:42, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Whoops. I forgot that they're listed under their Japanese name "東方神起". For Big Bang, I didn't mean 46%, I meant 46 million. I just added the individual sales figures for each post-2010 single and album track as recorded by Gaon, which are listed in their discography page. Gaon, as the official chart of South Korea, provides sales figures similar to those of Nielsen SoundScan or The Official Charts Company.

Since Gaon only started tracking sales in January 2010, any Korean digital sales from before that date are pure speculation. Given the complete lack of certifications in Korea, estimating pre-2010 digital sales there is even more difficult than estimating pre-SoundScan sales in North America.--Mαuri^’96 “everything and nothing always haunts me…” 07:02, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Yeap, TVXQ seem to have a lot of certifications listed in both databases. As for Big Bang, their fame seems to have begun in 2007/2008, and the singles "Lies, "Last Farewell", "Haru Haru" have downloaded figures available as it seems the downloads mainly have become popular there in 2010. All in all, the 140 million in sales is quite high. Perhaps, 75 million. Let's bare in mind that South Korea had a very small music market before 2011. In fact, it was smaller than Poland's market. It's clearly the digital downloads that have helped that market to prosper.--Harout72 (talk) 13:33, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

I checked the forum page included in the initial edit request and it turns out that the 140 million refers exclusively to downloads from all of the group's releases, subgroup releases, and even solo releases by the group's five members all added together. It seems to be a case of people confusing what exactly is meant by the total sales figure, as happens often with older artists, whose sales claims often refer to only albums. --Mαuri^’96 “everything and nothing always haunts me…” 16:18, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Artists that didn't make the list

Is it possible to end the article with a section of artists who didn't make it on the list - because of the rule that "claimed figures [should be] supported by at least 20% in certified units" - but are still considered best-selling artists? This could avoid the names of Shakira, Spice Girls, Cliff Richard, Nana Mousxouri, Charles Aznavour, Vangelis, etc. popping up every now and then on this talk page. I'd love to hear opinions about this suggestion. 217.120.219.67 (talk) 14:36, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

The Doors

Three sources say the band have sold more than 100 million albums (claims) The source that is linked has a mistake in it. While the Washington Post article says:Filmmaker Tom DiCillo's "When You're Strange: A Film About the Doors" cannot lay claim to any new thoughts about (or meaning to) the Doors' 54-month journey together in the late 1960s and early '70s -- a journey that, we are told by narrator Johnny Depp, resulted in 80 million records sold. But in the film itself it is said that they have sold more than 100 million albums.Watch it yourself. Also three other source (including the bands Wikipedia page) state this too. The Doors have also have far more certified units than many other bands with claims of over 100 million (for example The Who,David Bowie...) Please correct this.WEC (talk) 18:56, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

The current source that's supporting the 80 million records is from May 2010, and the source you provided talks about album sales putting the sales at 100 million units. 1) We don't use sources that use the term albums only, we use those sources that use the term records which stands for albums, singles, videos combined. That's also stated in The Definitions section. 2) Had The Doors managed to sell 20 million units between May 2010 and May 2013, we'd see at least 15 million in certified sales, instead all we see is 500,000 (Gold) from US, and some 595,000 certified units from the UK, most of which were released way before may 2010, so those albums, singles, videos that have been certified by the BPI had years to sell and reach those certification levels. All in all, 1 million certified units don't suggest that The Doors could have sold more than 1.5 million in actual sales between that time frame. As for The Who and David Bowie, those are the lowest claimed figures available for them. If in the future lower figures for both become available, the 100 million figures will be replaced with those.--Harout72 (talk) 19:12, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Alright.Thanks for explaing that. WEC (talk) 19:26, 22 July 2017 (UTC)Cheers