Wikipedia

Talk:List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication/Archive 1

< Talk:List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication
Latest comment: 1 year ago by Damien Linnane in topic Image caption
Archive 1

Removed due to notability or incorrect listing

Latest comment: 16 years ago4 comments4 people in discussion

Nitin Ziole

Who is Nitin Ziole and why is he on this list? A quick Google shows no hits. [[Paul, in Saudi 05:47, 12 May 2005 (UTC)]]

Bob Stinton

The Bob Stinson page states that he did not, in fact, die of overdose -- should he be removed from the list? 69.9.16.28 22:28, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Joe Pass

Although Joe Pass was a heavy drug user for a substantial period of time, he was clean, sober and healthy for many, many years before his death and performed much of his best work during that period. You could argue that he may have lived longer if he had never used, but I don't think you could call his death "drug-related".

Honoré de Balzac

Having just read three bios of the man to do a major revision of that page, I've seen nothing to indicate that Honoré de Balzac died of coffee poisoning. He suffered from health problems all his life and it eventually just became too much for him. I don't think he belongs here. — Scartol · Talk 11:47, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Steve Marriot

"Drug related fire"? He was smoking in bed and fell asleep.Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:44, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Request for dates of death

Latest comment: 11 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

BasiSupeGa (talk) 09:00, 28 February 2009 (UTC) says: The actual date of death would be really useful, in addition to age of death. BasiSupeGa (talk) 09:00, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

See discussion below. Talk:List of drug-related deaths#Adding year of death. Freikorp (talk) 03:42, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Periods

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I have added in all of the periods at the end of the sentences. If I have missed any could you please add them? Thanks, Kilo-Lima|(talk) 22:12, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Anna Wood

Latest comment: 14 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

It is not widely known nor reported that Anna Wood suffered a rather serious head injury as a result of her mother and neighbor's panicked attempts to drag her downstairs, she was found at the time to be suffering the the effects of hyponatremia or water intoxication.

Two factors, hyponatremia and head trauma, were the cause of her death from cerebral oedema not from the effects of ecstasy.

Her name should be removed from the List of drug-related deaths.

GeeOh 08:34, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I completely disagree, the name of this list article is "drug-related deaths". If she hadn't of overdosed on ecstasy they wouldn't of needed to try and carry her down the stairs. The ecstasy also played a large (if not total) factor in the hyponatremia as well. It is most certainly "drug related". Freikorp (talk) 05:36, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Definition: Notable

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

As it states in the intro, this list is for notable people. If you notice unqualified additions to this list, feel free to remove them on sight. The minimum qualification should, imo, be significant involvement in a notable project, eg a band with a Wikipedia article. Strictly speaking any addition to this list about an individual without their own Wikipedia page could be removed. Deizio talk 20:59, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Robbie McIntosh

Latest comment: 16 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

The guitarist of this name is alive and well. The Average White Band drummer of the same name is not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.112.48.103 (talk) 15:05, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:39, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Kurt Cobain??!!?!?!?

Latest comment: 14 years ago5 comments5 people in discussion

Why on earth is he on here? He shot himself! ChrisTheDude 08:35, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

He also had a lethal amount of heroin in his system when he shot himself according to the autopsy - so this would be arguably drug related as well as a firearm death Steve-Ho 10:16, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Kurt Cobain died from a self induced gunshot wound, NOT a drug overdose.15:53, 17 February 2008 (UTC)207.230.211.120 (talk)

dude, he also injected a lethal amount of heroin in himself before he shot himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.52.29.248 (talk) 07:11, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree Cobain should be added to the list. Not only did he have a lethal amount of heroin when he shot himself but heroin arguably contributed to his suicide. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.134.73.17 (talk) 01:32, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

I've added Kurt Kobain back to the article. He does meet the requirements for inclusion as he was not only under the influence of heroin the amount of heroin in his system would have probably killed him anyway. I'm not sure why he was removed from the article in the first place. Freikorp (talk) 02:56, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Tabulate?

Latest comment: 14 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

Are people in favour of tabulating this information. If so, I don't mind doing the work. It would look something like this: 82.1.53.159 (talk) 11:29, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Name Age Profession Cause of death
  Herb Abrams Wrestling promoter Heart complications brought on by drug abuse
  Nick Adams 36 Actor Drug overdose
  Kerry Gene Adkisson 33 Wrestler Suicide after arrest for cocaine possession and drug problems
  Michael Brent Adkisson 23 Wrestler Suicide overdosed on tranquilizers
  Ryūnosuke Akutagawa 35 Writer Committed suicide by overdosing on barbiturates
  Dennis Allen Drug dealer Drug induced heart failure
  GG Allin 36 Punk musician Heroin overdose
  Bridgette Andersen 21 Former child actress Alcohol and heroin overdose
  Pier Angeli 39 Actress Died of anaphylactic shock after being given a tranquilizer by her doctor
  Matthew Ansara Actor and bodybuilder Heroin overdose
  Chris Antley Champion horse-racing jockey Drug-related causes
  West Arkeen Musician Drug overdose
  Howard Arkley Painter Drug overdose
  Kevyn Aucoin Photographer & make-up artist Kidney and liver failure due to Tylenol toxicity, due to prescription painkillers addiction
  Andy Gibb 30 Singer Heart failure due to complications of alcoholism and cocaine abuse
Probably better to use a standard list table layout. Like in the feautured list List of HIV-positive people. Garion96 (talk) 11:44, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Freikorp (talk) 02:56, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
As you can see, I have almost finished converting the entire article into a table format. Unfortunately I have to go to work, I'll finish the last of it when I get back in a few hours. Freikorp (talk) 06:31, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
Done :) Freikorp (talk) 15:43, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Criteria for inclusion?

Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

There's no exact criteria specified for inclusion on this page - I'd like to open discussion on it. Look at everyone whose description includes the word "suicide". If someone famous was messed up on drugs then committed suicide, does that count? How about if they used drugs to commit the suicide? Then, by that argument, shouldn't Hitler count?

Interesting thought. Hitler did bite into a cyanide capsule as he shot himself in the temple(most definitely as a fail safe, if one didn't kill him the other one would). However due to the fact that the gunshot did kill him and the cyanide use was therefore unnecessary (not to mention his inhibition/judgement was not diminished due to the influence of any drug) I believe he should not be included. I think to be included on the list the drug itself has to play a major factor in the death directly (i.e overdose), indirectly (i.e heart failure due to long term cocaine use) or suicide has to be completed under the influence of a drug. Freikorp (talk) 06:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Unsourced

Latest comment: 15 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

I question if leaving any unsourced entry on this list is appropriate. I am considering the weed-whacker. Comments? Hipocrite (talk) 23:21, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I think it would be worth a click to the article about the person to see if there is an obvious source that could be pulled into here. I dont know if I will have any time to help any time soon though. -- The Red Pen of Doom 23:32, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
That's a reasonable request, as one would expect the info to be on the article. Hipocrite (talk) 23:34, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Latest comment: 15 years ago4 comments4 people in discussion

There is another page for alcohol related deaths, can we remove the alcohol related deaths from this page? --86.128.169.74 (talk) 20:36, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I would say no. First of all, I see reason to delete solid information. Next, I see no reason to fragment this fine page. Do we need to take out the Heroin deaths? The Caffeine deaths? Why? Paul, in Saudi (talk) 16:19, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Okay, why do we need a separate page for alcohol related deaths then?--86.128.125.218 (talk) 19:49, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Alcohol is a drug. There is no reason to separate them.--96.247.210.169 (talk) 19:47, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Potential candidates to add to list

Latest comment: 11 years ago36 comments9 people in discussion
Confirmed candidates that have been sourced and returned to the article

  Miroslava Stern (29) not confirmable in any of the free sites i found, but it looked like pay sites might have the info.

Can you list the links to sites you think may have the information? Thanks. Freikorp (talk) 06:50, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
LA Times via proquest —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.137.20 (talk) 01:47, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
After purchasing the article I can tell you it does confirm her death was drug-related. Quote "Miroslava's body was found lying stretched across her bed yesterday. She had taken an overdose of sleeping pills." Freikorp (talk) 08:07, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

  Clinton Haines - (21) computer hacker, heroin overdose.

original source did not meet WP:RS but Sydney Morning Herald is likely to support claim, but I cant get in for some reason [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.137.20 (talk) 01:43, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
It took some trying but I manage to get access to the article, I've added him back with these references: [2][3] Freikorp (talk) 02:00, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

  Robbin Crosby (42) - musician, ex-Ratt, contracted and died from HIV as a direct result of long-time heroin addiction.[4]

This particular source says "cause of death not yet determined" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.137.43 (talk) 01:24, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
True. It does provide a quote from Crosby regarding his heroin use - "What has drug addiction done for me? It's cost me my career, my fortune, basically my sex life when I found out I was HIV positive" - It's a shame the reference doesn't confirm the death was HIV related, which in turn would be drug related. Freikorp (talk) 01:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
Ok I've found this reliable source [5] which states he died from AIDS. Combined with the fact he admits to contracting HIV through his heroin addiction is this enough to re-include him? Freikorp (talk) 01:57, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
And I found another source that says heroin overdose so we are double covered! MM207.69.137.43 (talk) 03:32, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
  •  Eddie Guerrero "heart disease, complicated by an enlarged heart resulting from a history of anabolic steroid use." [6]
Do anabolic steriods count as drugs? Does being the tertiary factor count? MM207.69.139.142 (talk) 04:11, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
I would say anabolic steroids definitely count as drugs. Freikorp (talk) 05:10, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
Hearing no objection, copying into the article. MM207.69.139.137 (talk) 01:45, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
No free reliable sources found. It appears that this source might confirm, but not enough content in the snippet view. [7]. TV.com "source" was declared not reliable, publicly editable site. MM 207.69.139.138 (talk) 02:33, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Are you sure you didn't mean this one that you added to her page? [8] It's a good start but probably not good enough on its own. After much searching I've found this passing mention from a reliable source [9] "she was replaced on screen by Megan Connolly, who herself tragically died of a heroin overdose in 2001." Freikorp (talk) 06:46, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
"after a long battle with heroin" did not specifically seem to verify that heroin was the actual cause of the death, but your other source does, so I have return Connelly to the article.
Found [10] Freikorp (talk) 12:01, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
google books and google news produced no sources in English, and only 1 source in norwiegen and that link was broke. no sources in wikipedia norway article either. probably doesnt meet WP:N. 207.69.137.39 (talk) 01:51, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
Added back with this reference: [11]. Freikorp (talk) 13:33, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
All the sources say his death is from fall from window, and only this book review (by whom I cant tell) indicates that the fall is drug related. [12] And while it seems likely, that alone is not enough, in my opinion. MM 4.158.222.20 (talk) 03:24, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
Full details for that book can be found here[13]. His allmusic profile states he died from a fall after taking heroin and cocaine[14]. Do you think that will be enough? Freikorp (talk) 13:21, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
Added back with additional reference due to no objections. Freikorp (talk) 12:27, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Any of these that are "drug related" have already been in cluded in the list. MM207.69.139.138 (talk) 04:45, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
  •   Paul Demayo - professional bodybuilder, heroin overdose. While his death is talked about at great length on bobybuilding websites, I cannot find a reliable secondary source either. This source only states "alleged drug overdose", no mention of heroin - [15] this one says "apparent drug overdose" - [16] same story here - [17]. I'm fairly certain this one is only going to be found in a bodybuilding or sports book. Freikorp (talk) 09:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
It's highly likely this book has at least a passing mention about him. [18] I'll keep me eyes out for a copy :) Freikorp (talk) 12:39, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Scrap that. After purchasing the book for $1 on eBay the book I can confirm it mentions nothing about his death, though I was able to used it as a reference for his article. I have found his obituary, which states he died "suddenly" [19]. This website confirms heroin overdose however [20], still going to at least look for a more reliable source before I add him back. Freikorp (talk) 12:31, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
Added back, still going to keep a lookout for a better source. Freikorp (talk) 03:41, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
Added with this reference [21] Freikorp (talk) 03:35, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
on-line translation dictionary gives a rough translation "The real name of Marie-France Gaité, Gribouille the writing is nearly barbaric." - i.e. nothing about drug use or death.4.158.222.240 (talk) 05:00, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
This published book states she died of a drug overdose but lists wikipedia as the source for this claim. How funny. [23] Freikorp (talk) 01:56, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Yet another book that states she died of a drug overdose but lists wikipedia as a reference. This book is also from a self-publishing company, so it wouldn't be reliable anyway, just thought I would mention it out of interest. [24] Freikorp (talk) 03:45, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
Added with her Allmusic profile [25] Freikorp (talk) 14:07, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

The following people are added to one of the three following categories alcohol-related deaths, drug-related deaths by country or drug-related suicides. Their cause of death is mentioned as drug related in their article but they currently have no references to support this:

Feel free to simply move individual names over to the 'confirmed' section if references are found and they are added to the article - that's what I'm planning to do anyway. I ommitted the more duibious people from the 3 categories - i.e John Doe was believed to be drunk when he killed himself... other than that this is every single person added to a drug-related category that does not have a reference relating to cause of death. Freikorp (talk) 05:25, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Adding year of death

Latest comment: 14 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Someone above had asked for the year of death which I think is a good addition. What format looks best? Something else? Would we want to use the full date or just year?

A table format, as suggest above, would ideally be the best way to list everything (naturally with a year/date of death column). I understand that is a lot of trouble to go to (I certainly don't have the time to do it), so either one of the above ways would be fine, I am thinking we should include the word 'age' before the age number though, i.e Some Guy, 2007 (Aged 44) Freikorp (talk) 02:51, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
As you can see I've since put in a table format that includes year of birth and year of death, thereby making a separate age at death column redundant. Freikorp (talk) 14:17, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Important names missing

Latest comment: 11 years ago6 comments4 people in discussion

Corey Haim should be included!

Dear Anonymous person, as has already been stated below, Corey Haim did NOT die of a drug or alcohol overdose. He died from Pneumonia. While his health may have been impacted by his drug use, his drug use did not cause his death. Centerone (talk) 20:18, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

I was surprised not to find Charlie Parker, or Billie Holiday... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.4.121.245 (talk) 20:02, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Feel free to find a reliable source and add people to the list yourself. These articles are built entirely by volunteers after all. Freikorp (talk) 14:22, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
I've since taken the liberty of finding a reference for Billie Holiday and adding her to the list. However Charlie Parker does not appear to meet the criteria as while he did have cirrhosis that is not what killed him. Freikorp (talk) 14:34, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

What about Corey Haim, Mike Starr from Alice In Chains, and Amy Winehouse? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.27.112.122 (talk) 04:25, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Late reply i know, but just for archival purposes - Corey Haim did not die of a drug overdose [27] [28]. Both Mike Starr and Amy Winehouse have since been added to the article. Freikorp (talk) 03:32, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Amy Winehouse

Latest comment: 13 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Too soon to add Amy Winehouse? MrYdobon (talk) 13:18, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Soon is not an issue. The issue is finding an reliable source that specifically states it was a drug overdose. Nobody is getting added to the list without one. Freikorp (talk) 14:17, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Chris Donald

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Clarification: Chris Donald took on the stagename of Vinnie Taylor. Please comment here about this listing if any. Semper Fi! FieldMarine (talk) 11:50, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

"AKA" names

Latest comment: 10 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Several entries with "AKA names" as the alphabetic sort criteria instead of the name as represented in the subject's main article title were edited & relocated since this does not align with WP:UCN. AldezD (talk) 21:45, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

No worries. When I found this article it had many 'aka' names specified, so I took it upon myself when I overhauled the article to format everyone who had a stage or common name in this manner for consistency. I was unaware wikipedia had a guideline related to that. Freikorp (talk) 22:59, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 external links on List of drug-related deaths. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 01:35, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on List of drug-related deaths. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 21:42, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on List of drug-related deaths. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 08:54, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Article move proposed

Latest comment: 7 years ago14 comments2 people in discussion

Over 7 years I've made over 900 edits to this article. As you may have noticed, I am currently in the process of another major improvement, going through each and every source, making sure it is reliable, properly formatted, still alive, and finally archived so as to prevent link rot. I am currently up to the letter F; I anticipate it will take me another 3 weeks to finish this task. My motivation for this overhaul is to make the article a featured list. In order to accomplish this feat, I have also greatly expanded the article's lead, as per the featured list criteria. Anyway, in introducing the subject of drug-related deaths in the lead, I have realised something. As the lead states, the overwhelming majority (over 80% it would seem) of "drug-related deaths" are from tobacco. This article doesn't feature a single tobacco related death.

The simple solution to this problem is just to start adding tobacco related deaths, but I think that would just create a bigger problem. This article currently has about 450 drug-related deaths. There are currently over 1700 people in the category deaths from lung cancer alone. The majority of these will be tobacco related, and that's before we even start getting into the other forms of cancer tobacco causes, or the other non-cancer related deaths from tobacco. My conservative estimate is that adding tobacco related deaths to this article would (assuming the arduous task was ever completed) increase the article size by 400%. The size of this new article would be so great it would no doubt require the article to be split into several smaller articles, each containing an alphabetical portion of the list (i.e 'List of drug-related deaths A-F', 'List of drug-related deaths G-M' etc etc). And there would be so many tobacco related deaths in the article they would overshadow anything else. I think this would be a terrible solution.

Which brings me back to our problem. This article is entitled 'List of drug-related deaths', but that's not what it is. In reality it is actually a 'List of deaths from drugs other than tobacco'. As such the article is inaccurately described. The majority of this article is actually a list of drug overdoses.

I propose we move this article to "List of deaths from drug overdoses" and ditch the one hundred odd deaths in the list that are not actually overdoses.

I can only think of two alternatives to fix this problem, and I don't like either. Firstly we could create a separate article entitled 'List of tobacco-related deaths', and add a disclaimer in the lead of this article that tobacco related deaths can be found there. However I'm not sure if, due to the sheer volume of tobacco related deaths, that this is feasible, for the same reason there is no list 'List of deaths from heart-attacks'; they are far too common to count! Secondly we can just say in the lead of this article that tobacco-related deaths are not included as they are too numerous, but this just strikes me as lazy and unencyclopeadic.

Are there any objections to me moving this article and ditching the non-overdose deaths? I understand it is shame to effectively 'throw away' such data (especially since I wrote the majority of it!), but i think it's the best solution. Freikorp (talk) 04:48, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Adding thousands of tobacco-related deaths would be unwieldy. Further, the "purpose" of this page is to show the huge number of people who have died from illegal drug use. Oddly, this is the only such list. It is important and would be lessened if it included tobacco deaths. Please tell me how I can help you with your editing. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 09:51, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
Hi Paul. I'm glad you commented, and I'm glad you also think adding tobacco deaths will lesson the article's value. In order to prevent tobacco deaths from being eligible to be added (and for being a requirement for this article to be featured) I think my proposed move is the only solution. I'll give it a couple days to wait for further comments and then I'll make the change unless there are protests.
If you'd like to help with ongoing improvements to the article, these are the things I've been doing: Firstly making sure all the references are formatted using consistent methods - this is definitely a requirement to be promoted to featured status. I'm using four templates: Template:Cite web for regular online sources, Template:Cite news for offline newspaper articles, Template:Cite book for books and Template:Cite journal for journals and magazines. While doing this I am making sure the references also follow the same dating format, which is 'Month, Day, Year' (I.e "Retrieved January 1, 2000" as opposed to "Retrieved 1 January 2000" or "Retrieved 01-01-2000"); general consistency is needed for featured status. I'm also archiving all sources formatted with Template:Cite web (the other formats generally cannot be archived and don't need to be anyway) in order to prevent link rot. This involves saving the URL of the reference with an archiving site such as Archive.is and adding the custom URL and the date saved to the parameters "|archiveurl=" and "|archivedate=" within the Cite web brackets.
I've done all of the above for every source between A and E. The rest of the sources are a mixed bag - some are OK and some need complete fixing. If you'd like to help, pick a letter somewhere towards the end of the alphabet and start making the above changes to references. As per the proposed move give complete preference to overdose deaths as the others are likely to be scrapped anyway. Also if you're having trouble with archiving just forget that part and work on formatting sources with the approved method - I'll archive it myself later and it will still save me time if the reference is formatted properly when i get to it. But don't feel pressured if you don't have the time for any of that. :) Freikorp (talk) 11:06, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
I anticipate a slow day here at the office tomorrow. If I am not distracted by a shiny object, I will start with "Z," a smaller section so you can check my work before I move on to larger hunks. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 11:09, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
Haha I already formatted Z and Y just becase there were only 3 people between both letters. If you'd like something small to practice on, the final person in U (Enrique Urquijo) is a perfect example of a terribly formatted reference. A great place to start. Also just some advice on referencing overall - looking at U - the first reference looks pretty good except it's using 'cite news' instead of 'cite web' (that just means you have to change the word 'news' to web' though, nothing tricky) and also it isn't archived yet, the second reference looks fairly good but the source might be unreliable (prowrestling.net) - might have to find a new source, and also it used the parameter '|publisher"' when it should use '|work='. So when you refer to your source use the parameter '|work=', such as '|work=The New York Times', as opposed to '|website=' or '|publisher='. The third source is a bit tricky since it's a documentary. That actually requires a rarely used template, Template:Cite AV media. Maybe just ignore that one or anything like it. The fourth one though is a great place to start, and maybe try archiving the first one after that if you're feeling like a challenge. Freikorp (talk) 11:27, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

I am about to start. If you desire to include only drug overdose deaths, I would suggest you be biased toward inclusion rather than strict to exclude. It seems wrong to throw away all those entries for the sake of keeping tobacco deaths out of it. I will be unable to archive as the site you cited is (apparently) in Israel. Now let me see what I can do.

  • Dorothy Uhnak is OK
  • Umaga I cannot check as the site cited is blocked here.
  • Stu Ungar
  • Enrique Urquijo I cannot check as the site cited is blocked here.

So much for doing this from the office. Let me try later from home. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 03:46, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Oh right, I didn't consider that archive.is would be blocked in Saudi. Try and use the Wayback Machine instead. I only suggested archive.is because I think it's simpler to use.
I'll definitely try and be as inclusive as I can with the list. My motivation isn't just to keep tobacco deaths out, it is to make the list an accurate representation of its title, and also to hopefully get the article accepted as featured. In order to be featured it would need to be an accurate representation of its title (which it currently isn't), and if it is featured it will get much more traffic. I want as many people to read this as possible. :)
I've just finished formatting the references as F and will start workign on G either tonight or tomorrow. Freikorp (talk) 05:52, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
I've decided I won't actually move the article until I've finished updating the references. This should take 2-3 weeks. Freikorp (talk) 07:29, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
Half way there. References for letters A-K have been checked for reliability, accuracy, proper formatting and have been archived where possible. Letters A-G were done entirely. Starting from H only people who meet the new criteria for inclusion have been checked/formatted/archived. Freikorp (talk) 04:29, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
As the article Combined drug intoxication (CDI) states, "CDI is often confused with drug overdose, but it is a completely different phenomenon". It is however, an acute form of drug-related death, and accordingly fits the purpose of the list I am trying to build. I'm starting to think the name for the new article should be List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication. It will be a more inclusive list, though one that will be an accurate representation of its title. Your thoughts? Freikorp (talk) 05:51, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
Well it took me four weeks and 700 odd edits, but I've finished formatting and archiving all the existing references. I'll start adding the potential candidates in the section below tomorrow, and plan to complete the move as soon as all the potential candidates that I can find sources for have been added. Freikorp (talk) 13:21, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
As you've no doubt noticed, the page has now been moved. I've removed the people who obviously do not meet the new criteria (about 35 people). I've still got about 45 people to add from the potential candidates list so this article will soon be longer than it originally was anyway. Freikorp (talk) 14:22, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
Now that I've finished adding potential candidates to the list, I think this article meets the criteria to be nominated as a featured list candidate. I'll probably nominate it in the next couple days. Are there any comments or suggestions regarding this in the meantime? Freikorp (talk) 13:30, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
I am standing by to *Support you. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 07:30, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Karen Carpenter

Latest comment: 7 years ago9 comments4 people in discussion

According to the Karen Carpenter page it says that Dr. Richard Shepherd who is a forensic pathologist, believed that Karen's abuse of ipecac syrup and synthroid contributed to her death along with the singer's anorexia and shrunken heart — Preceding unsigned comment added by Forrest Lesak (talk • contribs) 06:16, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

I also heard that she died from an overdose of ipecac which caused her to vomit — Preceding unsigned comment added by Forrest Lesak (talk • contribs) 01:08, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for ceasing your edit war and instead bringing this up on the talk page. I apologise for not noticing it sooner. Upon closer inspection there does seem to be some merit in this. I think we should add her to the article with a summary along the lines of "heart failure was caused by repeated use of ipecac syrup". Freikorp (talk) 22:53, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Freikorp — Preceding unsigned comment added by Forrest Lesak (talk • contribs) 02:36, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

@Forrest Lesak: If you are going to cite Levothyroxine as a contributing factor in her death, you are going to need to cite a reliable source for the claim. The cited source doesn't mention it. General Ization Talk 02:42, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
Actually, my mistake. However, the article mentions "thyroid medication", without using the name of the specific formulation "Levothroxine" (which is not the only thyroid medication). We must do the same. General Ization Talk 02:43, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
I have no dog in this fight. That said, I note Carpenter appears on the List of People Who Died of Starvation. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 03:52, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
Now that the page has been moved and the criteria for inclusion has been changed, Carpenter no longer meets the criteria for inclusion. Accordingly I have removed her. Freikorp (talk) 14:20, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Well it does'nt really matter if her death is on the criteria anymore — Preceding unsigned comment added by Forrest Lesak (talk • contribs) 21:03, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Potential candidates

Latest comment: 7 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

Listed below is every single person found under 'Category:Drug-related deaths', who as of posting this, meets the criteria for inclusion according to the prose at their respective article, but is not currently on the list. I'll remove them one by one as they get added or will list them as 'no sources found' if that is the case. Freikorp (talk) 07:55, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Done. Freikorp (talk) 09:31, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

No sources/disputed

  • Freddy Soto - combined drug intoxication (no sources found)
  • Suicide of Terry Rossland - drug overdose (no sources found)
  • Ali (graffiti artist) "cocaine addiction" (no sources found)
  • David Reilly - "a coma brought on by pain medication for an abscessed tooth" (no sources found). This sources [29] states "complications from longstanding stomach problems" while this one [30] states "complications from an infection-induced coma".
  • Gus Chambers - alcohol and medication (no sources found)
  • Vivien Merchant - acute alcoholism. Can't find a reliable source that the alcoholism was acute. The New York Times implies that the alcoholism was long term: [31]. Accordingly I've updated this at her article.
  • Elsa Eschelsson - sleeping powder overdose (no sources found). This source simply states she "probably" committed suicide, but doesn't say how. [32]
  • George Popovici - morphine overdose (no sources found)
  • Youlan (noble) - swallowed opium (no sources found)
  • Stephen Robert Koekkoek - alcohol and drug overdose (no sources found)
  • Troy Newman (singer) - toxic combination of prescription drugs (speculated only, autopsy inconclusive)
  • Eva Mottley - overdose of alcohol and other drugs (no sources found)
  • Marek Brezovský - heroin overdose (no sources found)
  • Doug Rauch - heroin overdose (no sources found)
  • Zdenka Rubinstein - sleeping pill overdose (no sources found)
  • Michael Weber - accidental heroin overdose (no sources found)
  • Michele Girardon - overdose of sleeping pills (no sources found)
  • Harry McGilberry - apparent drug overdose (no sources found)
  • Seiki Kayamori - suicide. His death certificate lists "Drug?" as cause of death. (no sources found)
  • William S. Maynard - morphine overdose (no sources found)
  • Kazuki Watanabe (musician) - sleeping pill overdose (no sources found)
  • Alexandru Odobescu - morphine overdose (no sources found)
  • Menno ter Braak - Suicide. Sedative combine with poison. (no sources found)
  • Diana Barrymore - numerous sources attribute her death to an overdose, though her autopsy found no indication of this: [33]
  • Tera Wray - One source speculates overdose but another says this cause was ruled out [34][35]
Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:55, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:18, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Nelsan Ellis?

Latest comment: 7 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Should Nelsan Ellis be added ? http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/true-blood-actor-nelsan-ellis-died-due-alcohol-withdrawal-complications-family-says-1019634 Centerone (talk) 17:36, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Sources indicate rather than acute alcohol intoxication, Eliis died from symptoms associated with alcohol withdrawal. This would fall under 'long term effects', which are not covered in this list. Freikorp (talk) 01:21, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:29, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:59, 6 October 2017 (UTC)


Congratulations!

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I started this list many, many years ago. I still have it on my watchlist. I want to tell all of you how proud I am of your hard work. Surely this is one of Wikipedia's best articles and well-deserving of being a "Featured List."

This article is unique. Nothing like it exists elsewhere. This is a real contribution to human knowledge.

Everyone who contributes should be very proud. ''Paul, in Saudi'' (talk) 08:04, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:07, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Carrie Fisher?

Latest comment: 6 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

She should be added? Drugs were a contributing factor in her death, and cocaine, as well as heroin and MDMA was found in her system when an autopsy was conducted. Mzimmerle (talk) 15:43, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Her autopsy explicitly stated while traces of drugs were found, what factor (if any) that they played in her death could not be determined. Accordingly, I don't think she meets the criteria. Freikorp (talk) 00:54, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Additional listing

Latest comment: 4 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Lexii Alijai died from fentanyl and ethanol toxicity. [36] I always have trouble adding listings to tables. TJMSmith (talk) 23:11, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for pointing that out. :) Damien Linnane (talk) 10:58, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Beckett Cypher

Latest comment: 4 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Beckett Cypher is not notable in that he has no entry. On the other hand, he is the son of Melissa Etheridge and Julie Cypher. Rolling Stone reports the young man passed away at age 21 due to opioid addiction.[1]

It seems Cypher is probably not eligible for an article (and therefore inclusion on this list) as per WP:BIOFAMILY. Damien Linnane (talk) 08:19, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
OK. Thank you. --''Paul, in Saudi'' (talk) 14:25, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Legaspi, Althea (13 May 2020). "Melissa Etheridge's Son, Beckett Cypher, Dead at 21". Rolling Stone. Retrieved 15 May 2020.

Hypnotic / Combined drug intoxication

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Please change the real name of Sleeping pills to Hypnotic, and Multiple to Combined drug intoxication.2607:FEA8:F423:A400:E0C1:24CD:65A1:6BB3 (talk) 14:27, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Firstly, new talk pages messages are supposed to go at the bottom of talk pages, not the top. I'm relocating this message to the bottom of the page. Secondly, just for future reference, a term should only be linked once in a table. Your initial edit linked 'Combined drug intoxication' 149 times, and linked other terms multiple times as well. Please don't do anything like that ever again.
I don't see a strong need for either of these proposed changes. Currently the article uses the term 'painkiller' repeatedly, which is the commonly used term, whereas the Wikipedia article on painkillers is actually titled Analgesic. 'Sleeping pills' is the common term for Hypnotics. I don't see anything wrong with using common names, but I'll wait to hear from other editors as I'm not really that fussed either way. I also don't think we should use the term 'Combined drug intoxication' unless sources say that. Quite often, sources only say what drugs were found in a person's system, but makes no mention of whether all of these drugs played a role in their death. Labeling these deaths as Combined drug intoxication accordingly may actually be incorrect, and I think we're just unnecessarily convoluting things if we have some deaths labeled as 'multiple' drugs and other as Combined drug intoxication. Using 'multiple' for everything just makes things simpler; Combined drug intoxication is explained in the lead anyway. Damien Linnane (talk) 22:43, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Contested changes

Latest comment: 2 years ago8 comments2 people in discussion
  • Your edit reverted multiple edits which is pretty stupid because your edit summary didn't mention this and it's not possible to figure out by the byte size since I sorted the entries. You should just restore the see also section. However, I changed it to For alcohol as the single cause of death, see List of deaths through alcohol. Then you reverted the edit again. You ruined my day. --Bawanio (talk) 14:49, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@Damien Linnane: If alcohol was not the primary cause of the intoxication then it should certainly not be placed first. But how do we know? --Bawanio (talk) 14:55, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

The Drug(s) column could be renamed to Drug(s) by reference order or something. But it will be hard to separate the entries from references that make this clear and not. Perhaps Drug(s) by reference order is better. --Bawanio (talk) 14:59, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
I will not edit the article any more until we have reached a consensus. --Bawanio (talk) 15:00, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
(edit conflict) You don't have grounds to complain that your edit was reverted with only a partial explanation, when you yourself are reverting edits without any explanation at all (see here [37]). Please have the common decency to use the edit summary when reverting another user's edits, since that's what it's there for.
I reverted many of your edits at once because I didn't think any of them were good. For example, you added the text "were traces of a antiemeticmotion-sickness pill". Firstly, this is clearly a grammar error. More importantly (since your typographical mistakes can be fixed easily enough), what's your source for this? It's not in the citation given, so if you want to change the information you need to provide a new source. Please don't ever add unreferenced information to any article on Wikipedia, but especially not a featured one.
The first drug in a entry is ideally the one that had the biggest influence on the death, not the one that starts with a letter closer to the beginning of the alphabet. And yes, I'm aware in many cases the drug that that had the most influence isn't explicitly specified. But in many cases it is, so trying to make the rest of the article alphabetical isn't helpful since the article will never be completely alphabetical. Changing the column title to 'Drug(s) by reference order' is an interesting idea, but personally I just think it's unnecessary complication. And what do you propose we do when there are two sources that give drugs in a different order? I think the table is just fine the way it is.
You must be pretty fragile if a simple reversion on Wikipedia can ruin your day. Perhaps consider a different hobby where your feelings aren't so easily hurt, and where you don't feel the need to lash out at people by calling their edits "stupid" if you don't understand what they're doing (I notice you only modified your original insults on this talk page AFTER I explained my reversion [38]), and where you feel the need to insist people "give up!" [39] when you're the one making contested changes, without consensus, to a featured list. Damien Linnane (talk) 15:46, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Don't worry, I recovered. I was just upset because 2 hours of editing was lost. We will not talk anymore, good luck with your contributions. --Bawanio (talk) 15:55, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
@Bawanio: I encourage you to keep editing Wikipedia. Bold edits, like your initial changes, can be very constructive. But it's just a bit frustrating when bold edits get made to an article that has already gone through a extensive peer-review process and has been accepted as one of Wikipedia's best pieces of content for its existing formatting. That being said, I can also appreciate losing hours of your work is very annoying (over the years it's happened to me on here many, many times.) To avoid this in the future, when editing featured content, I think it's a much better idea to obtain consensus before making changes, since a consensus about the article has already been reached in order for it to become featured in the first place. Also while it's not a rule, following the guidelines at WP:BRD tends to avoid conflicts. I hope the rest of your day is better. Damien Linnane (talk) 16:14, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Sorry, I didn't pay attention that the article was a featured list. --Bawanio (talk) 16:19, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Deaths from the Combined drug intoxication article

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

@Damien Linnane:

I think the Combined_drug_intoxication#Celebrity_deaths_because_of_CDI/MDI section should be removed after deaths from that section have been merged to this list:

Then {{for|notable people who died in overdose and intoxication|List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication}} could be placed at the top of Combined drug intoxication article, or List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication could be listed under See also section under that article. --Bawanio (talk) 16:59, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

I'd never seen that list before; thanks for sharing it. It's definitely pretty terrible and lacking in content and sources, and made completely redundant by this list here anyway. I've just deleted it as per your suggestion, though stated my openness to debating the deletion in the edit summary.
Ol' Dirty Bastard is already in the list here, and a consensus was reached a long time ago to not include anyone on this list unless they have their own article on Wikipedia (otherwise thousands of new people suddenly become potentially eligible, and we have to draw the line somewhere), so Casey Calvert isn't eligible. It looks like Chris Penn doesn't meet the criteria either, as from an initial glance his death seems to more from the long-term effects of drug use. Soto, however, does meet the criteria, so I've added him to the list here. Thanks for finding him. Damien Linnane (talk) 02:01, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@Damien Linnane: Thanks. --Bawanio (talk) 15:10, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Use Template:Death date and age

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

See List of deaths through alcohol for examples.

I'll gradually add hundreds more entries if there's a consensus and someone will actually add this, one hundred entries takes about 1 hour to generate in spreadsheets and there are over 600 entries in the article. Below are data for the first 100 entries in this article that conveniently may be copy/pasted.

@Damien Linnane: What is your opinion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bawanio (talk • contribs) 00:24, January 17, 2022 (UTC) 

Louis Abolafia 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1995|10|30 |1941|02|23 df=yes}}
Herb Abrams 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1996|07|23 |1955|07|09 df=yes}}
Janet Achurch 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1916|09|11 |1863|01|17 df=yes}}
Trent Acid 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2010|06|18 |1980|11|12 df=yes}}
Arthur Adamov 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1970|03|15 |1908|08|23 df=yes}}
Brian Adams 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2007|08|13 |1964|04|14 df=yes}}
Nick Adams 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1968|02|07 |1931|07|10 df=yes}}
Ai Xia 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1934|02|15 |1912|11|29 df=yes}}
Ryūnosuke Akutagawa 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1927|07|24 |1892|03|01 df=yes}}
Michael Alig 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2020|12|24 |1966|04|29 df=yes}}
Lexii Alijai 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2020|01|01 |1998|02|19 df=yes}}
Howard Alk 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1982|01|01 |1930|10|25 df=yes}}
A. A. Allen 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1970|06|11 |1911|03|27 df=yes}}
Chet Allen 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1984|06|17 |1939|05|06 df=yes}}
William Barnsley Allen 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1933|08|27 |1892|06|08 df=yes}}
GG Allin 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1993|06|28 |1956|08|29 df=yes}}
Frances Alsop 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1821|06|02 |1782|09|01 df=yes}}
Abraham Ángel 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1924|10|27 |1905|03|07 df=yes}}
Pier Angeli 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1971|09|10 |1932|06|19 df=yes}}
Bridgette Andersen 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1905|06|19 |1975|07|11 df=yes}}
Paul Y. Anderson 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1938|12|06 |1893|08|29 df=yes}}
Chris Antley 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2000|12|02 |1966|01|06 df=yes}}
Jean Améry 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1978|10|17 |1912|10|31 df=yes}}
Diane Arbus 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1971|07|26 |1923|03|14 df=yes}}
Reinaldo Arenas 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1990|12|07 |1943|07|16 df=yes}}
West Arkeen 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1997|05|30 |1960|06|18 df=yes}}
Howard Arkley 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1999|07|22 |1951|05|05 df=yes}}
James Lloyd Ashbury 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1895|09|03 |1905|01|07 df=yes}}
Avery Atkins 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2007|07|05 |1987|05|29 df=yes}}
Kevyn Aucoin 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2002|05|07 |1962|02|14 df=yes}}
Kathy Augustine 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2006|07|11 |1956|05|29 df=yes}}
Chet Baker 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1988|05|13 |1929|12|23 df=yes}}
Tom Baker 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1982|09|02 |1940|08|23 df=yes}}
Albert Ballin 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1918|11|09 |1857|08|15 df=yes}}
Lester Bangs 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1982|04|30 |1948|12|14 df=yes}}
Barbette 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1973|08|05 |1899|12|19 df=yes}}
R. H. Barlow 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |January 1 or 2, 1951 |1918|05|18 df=yes}}
Sid Barnes 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1973|12|16 |1916|06|05 df=yes}}
Jürgen Bartsch 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1976|04|28 |1946|11|06 df=yes}}
Skye McCole Bartusiak 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2014|07|19 |1992|09|28 df=yes}}
Jean-Michel Basquiat 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1988|08|12 |1960|12|22 df=yes}}
Pierre Batcheff 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |13 April 1932 |23 June 1901?[1] df=yes}}
Michael Carl Baze 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2011|05|10 |1987|04|14 df=yes}}
Patricia Beck 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1978|03|02 |1924|04|08 df=yes}}
Scotty Beckett 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1968|05|10 |1929|10|04 df=yes}}
Steve Bechler 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2003|02|17 |1979|11|18 df=yes}}
Art Bell 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2018|04|13 |1945|06|17 df=yes}}
Gertrude Bell 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1926|07|12 |1868|07|14 df=yes}}
John Belushi 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1982|03|05 |1949|01|24 df=yes}}
Walter Benjamin 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1940|09|26 |1892|07|15 df=yes}}
Jay Bennett 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2009|05|24 |1963|11|15 df=yes}}
Jill Bennet 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1990|10|04 |1931|12|24 df=yes}}
Wes Berggren 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1999|10|27 |1971|04|03 df=yes}}
William Lee Bergstrom 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1985|02|04 |1905|05|04 df=yes}}
Bruce Berry 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1973|06|04 |1950|08|03 df=yes}}
Don Bessent 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1990|07|07 |1931|03|13 df=yes}}
Leah Betts 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1995|11|16 |1977|11|01 df=yes}}
Len Bias 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1986|06|19 |1963|11|18 df=yes}}
Big George 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2011|05|07 |1957|05|29 df=yes}}
Big Moe 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2007|10|14 |1974|08|20 df=yes}}
Bam Bam Bigelow 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2007|01|19 |1961|09|01 df=yes}}
Robert Bingham 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1999|11|28 |1966|03|14 df=yes}}
Ted Binion 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1998|09|17 |1943|11|28 df=yes}}
Laurie Bird 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1979|06|15 |1952|09|26 df=yes}}
Gottfried von Bismarck 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2007|06|29 |1962|09|19 df=yes}}
Patrick Bissell 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1987|12|29 |1957|12|01 df=yes}}
Clara Blandick 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1962|04|15 |1876|06|04 df=yes}}
Erica Blasberg 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2010|05|09 |1984|07|14 df=yes}}
Mattie Blaylock 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1888|07|03 |1850|01|01 df=yes}}
Mike Bloomfield 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1981|02|15 |1943|07|28 df=yes}}
Tommy Bolin 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1976|12|04 |1951|08|01 df=yes}}
John Bonham 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1980|09|25 |1948|05|31 df=yes}}
Derek Boogaard 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2011|05|13 |1982|06|23 df=yes}}
Jennie Bosschieter 	|align=center|{{Death date and age | |1883    1900 df=yes}}
Christopher Bowman 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2008|01|10 |1967|03|30 df=yes}}
Charles Boyer 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1978|08|26 |1899|08|28 df=yes}}
Billy Lee Brammer 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1978|02|11 |1929|04|21 df=yes}}
Elisa Bridges 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2002|02|07 |1973|05|24 df=yes}}
Diane Brimble 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2002|09|24 |1960|04|10 df=yes}}
William Brinkley 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1993|11|22 |1917|09|10 df=yes}}
Dave Brockie 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2014|03|23 |1963|08|30 df=yes}}
Branwell Brontë 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1848|09|24 |1817|06|26 df=yes}}
Bobbi Kristina Brown 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2015|07|26 |1993|03|04 df=yes}}
Lenny Bruce 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1966|08|03 |1925|10|13 df=yes}}
Patrick Henry Bruce 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1936|11|12 |1881|03|25 df=yes}}
Julia Bruns 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1927|12|24 |1905|03|09 df=yes}}
Tim Buckley 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1975|06|29 |1947|02|14 df=yes}}
Paul Butterfield 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1987|05|04 |1942|12|17 df=yes}}
Andrés Caicedo 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1977|03|04 |1951|09|29 df=yes}}
Ken Caminiti 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2004|10|10 |1963|04|21 df=yes}}
Max Cantor 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1991|10|03 |1959|05|15 df=yes}}
Truman Capote 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1984|08|25 |1924|09|30 df=yes}}
Billie Carleton 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1918|11|28 |1896|09|04 df=yes}}
Edward John Carnell 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1967|04|25 |1919|06|28 df=yes}}
Leslie Carter 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2012|01|31 |1986|06|06 df=yes}}
Greg Centauro 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2011|03|26 |1977|01|10 df=yes}}
Spencer Charters 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1943|01|25 |1875|03|25 df=yes}}
Richard Chase 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1980|12|26 |1950|05|23 df=yes}}
Vic Chesnutt 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |2009|12|25 |1964|11|12 df=yes}}
Tai Chi-tao 	|align=center|{{Death date and age |1949|02|21 |1891|01|06 df=yes}}
Hi Bawanio. What's your reasoning for wanting to do this? As in, why is the exact date of death important to know? In a table that has death spans spreading over a period of more than 200 years, the exact day seems like unnecessary over-detail to me. What do people gain by knowing the exact day in 1816 that Fanny Imlay died? Is the fact she died in the early 18-th century not enough? If it isn't for some reason, they can always just go to her article to find out the exact date. I don't think adding the exact date adds anything of value to the table, but it does take something important away. With the table's current formatting, it allows you to quickly sort people by the age they were when they died, which I think is both interesting and helpful. Currently, for example, if you wanted to check how many teenagers died of a drug overdose, or how many people in their 20s etc etc, you can just hit the top of the 'Age' column and get instant results. With the proposed table formatting, it would appear your only viable option for finding this information would be spending a whole heap of time CTRL+F searching for the specific ages, and adding each year up one at at a time manually, while trying to avoid false positives from the age also matching numbers elsewhere. Damien Linnane (talk) 02:19, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@Damien Linnane: Alright. --Bawanio (talk) 15:10, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Béla II of Hungary

Latest comment: 2 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

@Damien Linnane: Béla II of Hungary is problaby the earliest known death of alcohol (see List of deaths through alcohol) that has an own Wikipedia article. Please let me know if you add him, I'm fine if you have no interest in doing so. --Bawanio (talk) 13:19, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Hmm, it's a complicated issue for two reasons. For starters, the table just says his death was caused by 'alcohol-related issues' (without sources - incidentally the table at that article really needs a reference column like the one here has - it will hopefully encourage other people to add sources even if you don't have time to find them yourself right now), and his Wikipedia doesn't even say that much. This article only lists people who die of acute-alcohol related causes, not long term effects, and it isn't clear which is the case here from either article.
More importantly, there was some discussion at the featured list nomination about the 'recentism' of the article. I.e, the first death is listed in the table is in 1811, but clearly, some people died of drugs before then. However, the concept of a 'drug overdose' is modern, and the number of historical acute drug deaths that can be reliably sourced is extremely low. I could actually only find one when I was first building this article (Promachus of Macedon - incidentally there's someone to add to the 'List of deaths through alcohol'). I wrote the paragraph in the lead about why drug overdoses are primarily a modern phenomena (due to isolated ingredients, inventions and policy - not to mention the rise of the media which has made it harder if not impossible to cover up drug-deaths) as a way of indirectly addressing why the list begins in the 18th century. There wasn't a clear consensus, though this seemed to address concerns and was evidently enough for the article to be promoted. I'd personally rather keep the list modern. Damien Linnane (talk) 14:11, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
@Damien Linnane: Please try to remember to ping me (I love the ping template). Thanks for a very detailed answer, I fully respect your decision. I was just fascinated about Béla's death date. --Bawanio (talk) 16:24, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Taylor Hawkins

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I am adding him, but suspect better cites will become available. --PaulinSaudi (talk) 22:38, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

About candidates

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Can people from pre 19th century be added to the list? Manavati (talk) 21:11, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Potentially, assuming reliable sources of course. Which is difficult since the concept of a drug overdose is a modern one. Damien Linnane (talk) 01:24, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:36, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Tempe Girl

Latest comment: 1 year ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Hi 4meter4. Regarding your edit here [40], I understand what you're saying, but doesn't the fact the person has enough media coverage to warrant a Wikipedia article confirm their notability? This is a list of 'notable' deaths, not just celebrities. Tens of thousands of regular people suicide from drugs every year, but few of those gather considerable media coverage. One of those that did is Suicide of Kelly Yeomans, and it is in the list. What are your thoughts on her inclusion in the list? Is she notable? I'm interested to hear what other people think about this change too. Damien Linnane (talk) 23:36, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

@ Damien Linnane, the existence of a wikipedia article does not necessarily guarantee that an article meets the criteria at WP:N. Articles get created routinely which do not meet our notability criteria which is why we have a busy group of dedicated editors at WP:AFD. If you had looked at the Tempe Girl article recently, you would have noticed that there is an on-going discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tempe Girl (2nd nomination) where there is currently an early consensus for deletion. I have no opinion on the Yeomans article because I have not looked at the sourcing for the article in relation to our notability guidelines. Best.4meter4 (talk) 00:35, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
@ 4meter4, I actually had looked at the article recently, though it's not on my watchlist, so I didn't notice that you nominated it for deletion yourself just minutes after your edit removing reference to it from this article. It certainly looks like your nomination will result in deletion, so I'm not going to contest this further. Damien Linnane (talk) 12:09, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

John Dye

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Actor John Dye's autopsy is available online, it states that he passed from acute meth intoxication. I don't know how to add people to the list so thought I would add this here. 170.253.205.26 (talk) 20:30, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. I've added him to the list. Damien Linnane (talk) 02:45, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Sticky headers

Latest comment: 1 year ago3 comments2 people in discussion
Note: First part of thread was initially on a user talk page. Moved here so others can participate.

Thanks for your explanation here: [41]. Now that I know what you're doing, I can appreciate your edit. It's hard to appreciate something when you don't know why it's been added, and it breaks the formatting. It's also difficult to know it only breaks the formatting on one browser when no links or explanations are provided. If you had linked Template:Sticky header in the initial edit summary, I wouldn't have complained as that would have told me what I needed to know. I'm not as adept at table formatting as you are, so I couldn't figure out what you were doing. Have a nice day. Damien Linnane (talk) 06:27, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Understood. I have been adding Template:Sticky header sometimes to the edit summary. I will add it every time from now on. --Timeshifter (talk) 06:41, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
Actually I owe you an apology here; you did link it originally. There were many new edits and I lost track of things trying to figure out which of the edits broke the table. I do appreciate your edits to the table overall. It looked like it was a lot of work and the body of the table is indeed much better now. So thanks. Damien Linnane (talk) 12:00, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Image caption

Latest comment: 1 year ago14 comments2 people in discussion

Your proposed wording has poor grammar. It violates MOS:NUMNOTES. It contains unnecessary and embarrassing over-detail. All humans have good understanding of the size of small denomination coins, let alone arguably one of the world's most famous. In the extremely unlikely event that some person wants to know the exact measurements of a US penny, they can click on the Wikilink provided. Damien Linnane (talk) 07:12, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I did not just revert. I addressed your concerns. See diff. And I made changes like using the old reference format (with additions).
So people know what is being talked about:
 
Fentanyl. 2 mg (white powder to the right) is a lethal dose in most people.[1] US penny is 19 mm (0.75 in) wide.

References

  1. ^ "Fentanyl: Image 4 of 17". Drug Enforcement Administration. 2 July 2018. Archived from the original on 8 October 2018. Archive link has caption: "photo illustration of 2 milligrams of fentanyl, a lethal dose in most people"
You are the first person to complain about this concerning this image caption. From the Commons image page is this:
"This image has currency in it to indicate scale.
"Using coins for scale is discouraged as it will require people unfamiliar with them to look up the dimensions or guess, both of which defeat the purpose of the object in the first place. Coins can also reinforce a geographical bias, and some coins' designs are copyrighted.
"Ideally, a photograph should include a ruler with the subject (example) or an added scale marking. SI ("metric") units are the most commonly used worldwide (see meter and centimeter)."
As for the grammar, feel free to correct it.
--Timeshifter (talk) 07:58, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
I did not just revert. I addressed your concerns.
That is not a true statement. You did not address all my concerns. You addressed the referencing. You didn't address others, and you even reinstated the MOS:NUMNOTES violation despite the fact I explicitly pointed the issue out.
As for the grammar, feel free to correct it.
I do keep correcting it, and then you keep reverting my corrections.
You are the first person to complain about this ...
Pointing out that someone is the first person to complain about something is not a valid argument in itself. It shouldn't be assumed that there is a tacit consensus just because nobody has stated they believe something can be done better. Most of my work on Wikipedia is improving things that nobody has complained about. This is what this list looked like right before my first edit: [42]. Nobody had complained that it wasn't long enough. The fact nobody complained wasn't a valid reason for me to not expand it.
Thanks for pointing out the NoCoins guideline on Commons. That was something I was previously unfamiliar with. In that case I'll happily reinstate that part. Damien Linnane (talk) 12:48, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
"2 mg" is actually correct according to MOS:NUMNOTES, not "two mg." You instead spelled it out to "Two milligrams". Are you going to use number names for "US penny is 19 mm (0.75 in) wide". As in "US penny is nineteen millimeters (0.75 inches) wide"? Most people want image captions shortened where possible because it is valuable real estate on the right side of an article where images are stacked. --Timeshifter (talk) 16:21, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
Well this is ironic. 'Valuable real estate' is one of the reasons I was modifying your quote to begin with. The explanations of powder and coin dimensions were unnecessarily long-winded. Just for the record I was happy to reinstate the penny dimensions to keep the peace, but I think the intention of NoCoins doesn't really apply here and that is still isn't necessary. A speck of powder that size is going to looks the same no matter how big the coin is.
I presume you're referring to the NUMNOTES guideline "Adjacent quantities not comparable should ideally be in different formats". That clearly only become an issue after I reinstated your penny dimensions. It's easily fixed, and I've already done so. Damien Linnane (talk) 21:44, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
In context with your above quote according to MOS:NUMNOTES "2 mg" is correct, not "Two mg". "Only figures are used with unit symbols (12 min not twelve min); but figures or words may be used with unit names (12 minutes or twelve minutes), subject to the provisions above." You seem to be one of those editors who like to cite guidelines without actually thoroughly reading them. Wikilawyering 101. Like with NoCoins you didn't read it well enough to understand that coins come in all sizes, and that Wikipedia has an international audience, especially for the English-language pages. A non-US resident is unlikely to know how big a US penny is without some indication of measurement. --Timeshifter (talk) 08:05, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
You seem to cite guidelines without actually thoroughly reading them yourself. NUMNOTES also says not to start a sentence with a figure. So starting a sentence with "2 mg" is not correct, but "Two milligrams" is fine. So my original rewording of the caption adhered to NUMNOTES. Things only became problematic when you wanted the coin size added back. Congratulations on snookering me there by the way. You wanted text added back which would conflict with what was already there, then complained when I fixed the issue you pointed out because that conflicted with a third issue that had yet to be raised. Perhaps you didn't plan that in advance, and perhaps it was taking Wikilawyering to advanced levels. Unlike you, I'll assume good faith and accept the first possibility. And in any case, this new issue you've raised is once again easily fixed, and I've already done so.
You're only embarrassing yourself if you accuse anyone of not understanding coins come in different sizes. I did read NoCoins. You, however, appear to have not read my reply and are now misrepresenting what I said. My point is I don't think a small speck of powder is going to look any larger or smaller next to a different sized coin. The point is moot anyway as I have conceded for the text to appear in the caption. You appear to be one of those editors who just wants to continue arguing for the sake of arguing even after you've won a point. Don't do that please. Damien Linnane (talk) 12:35, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Saying "You're only embarrassing yourself" is a personal attack. As is accusing me of "snookering" you. See your reply accusing me of a personal attack higher up. I quote you earlier on: "All humans have good understanding of the size of small denomination coins". Now you say differently above: "understanding coins come in different sizes." That includes small denomination coins. See Commons:Template:NoCoins: "require people unfamiliar with them to look up the dimensions". We solve the problem by putting those dimensions in the caption. I have long added the dimensions to the caption where I have posted that image. MOS:NUMNOTES says "Avoid beginning a sentence with a figure". The word "avoid" is not a requirement. If it is important to you then you can add "A" in front of it as you did.

All of these multiple long threads could have been avoided by fixing the problems instead of reversions. None of the problems were serious enough to require instant reversions. But since you apparently WP:OWN this page you reverted everything. Often in mistake as with the table edits you reverted and then apologized for.

Here is my image, caption, and reference before your first reversion:

 
Fentanyl. 2 mg (white powder to the right) is a lethal dose in most people.[1] US penny is 19 mm (0.75 in) wide.

References

  1. ^ Fentanyl. Image 4 of 17. US DEA (Drug Enforcement Administration). See archive with caption: "photo illustration of 2 milligrams of fentanyl, a lethal dose in most people".

Here is your final version:

 
A 2 mg dose of fentanyl powder (right) is a lethal amount for most people.[1] US penny is 19 mm (0.75 in) wide.

References

  1. ^ "Fentanyl: Image 4 of 17". Drug Enforcement Administration. 2 July 2018. Archived from the original on 8 October 2018.

All of this discussion for so little change in the caption. Change you could have done without reversion. And I see you have again removed the most important part quoting the archived caption: "photo illustration of 2 milligrams of fentanyl, a lethal dose in most people". It is no longer in the current reference caption. It is only in archives. Someone was removing the image from multiple pages because of the lack of verifiability, linking to WP:V. So I added that info, and they were happy. I stated this in an edit summary here, and you are ignoring it again. I link to the diff yet again: diff: "Fentanyl image caption. Using article's reference formatting. Plus additional info specifically requested by other editors on other articles with the image. Image was being deleted due to WP:V without the archived caption being linked and quoted. White powder was hard to notice by some editors." Did you think I was lying about that? WP:AGF. --Timeshifter (talk) 13:54, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) There's a big difference between a mild accusation and a clear personal attack. A mild accusation is you saying I'm Wikilawyering like you did above in your last response here, or me saying that a condescending remark you made is more embarrassing towards yourself than the person you're directing it to. A clear, undeniable personal attack is what you did in the above thread. If you disagree, that would mean you've made many personal attacks (I.e saying I'm Wikilawyering) for longer than I originally said above. I myself, however, don't think that's the case. And I didn't accuse you of snookering me on purpose. The fact remains you accomplished it regardless of intent, as is often the case in the game the term is derived from.
Well you've proved my point about still wanting to argue over the coin issue even though it's resolved. I myself do not want to continue arguing by pointing out what I believe is wrong with your comment above, and would rather leave the issue resolved. I added the text back, and I've now pointed out twice I don't intend to remove it. So please drop the stick and move on.
No I don't own this article, and no, I didn't revert everything. That's another false statement to add to the list of them that you've made. Among other things, not only did I not revert you deleting 32,000 characters from the table [43], I thanked you for it and acknowledged it was a lot of effort [44]. Pointing out that I'm completely willing to apologize when I realise I've made an error is not helping your accusations that I'm owning the article.
Yes, the final version of the caption is not very different from the original. However, the first change was. When I took this to the talk page, I thought it would be a simple discussion. Obviously, that was not the case. That doesn't mean that wanting to achieve consensus on talk pages, rather than reverting each other, isn't a bad idea in general. In fact, it's one of Wikipedia's cornerstones.
Sounds like you're giving this one editor who complained about the image elsewhere a lot of weight, and based only on what you've said, it sounds like that editor's reasoning was insufficient. There's a difference between assuming good faith, and blindly accepting what someone else said once. All I have is hearsay of what you said happened. Hearsay shouldn't be used to make decisions; typically we link to original diffs to prove a point, rather than linking to a diff of someone talking about them. Damien Linnane (talk) 14:09, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
Yet again you missed my main point in my last post. I even bolded it. An editor was removing the image from article after article because the current reference page at the DEA does not say "photo illustration of 2 milligrams of fentanyl, a lethal dose in most people". That is only found in some archive pages (depends on the date of the archive). So the editor justifiably deleted the image based on WP:V. Please put that back in the reference so that the image is not deleted. Future editors reading that reference will not necessarily know to go to the archive. In fact why would they believe there is more info there?
A different editor was complaining about not understanding the image, the powder, etc.. I added a few words to clarify the image. No big deal. But you made a federal case about adding a few words for that and the coin size. I added the words right away after the editors pointed out the problems. The editors and I didn't have a long discussion about it. No need. I am accommodating. You are not. --Timeshifter (talk) 14:52, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
You completely missed the final point in my last post. I pointed out you never provided diffs of these things happening. No I'm not accusing you of lying, I very much believe you when you say that someone complained. But as is customary on Wikipedia, when the crux of your argument relies entirely on some individual edits, you need to provide the diffs showing them. You're the one citing it, so the onus is on you is to provide evidence of it. For example, when taking disputes to AIN (or anywhere really), they never accept your word for things, they require you to provide diffs for any edits you mention before they'll consider your argument. This isn't because they think you're lying, it's so they can look at the evidence themselves to get a better understanding of what happened. Bolding a whole heap of text is not a substitute for actual evidence.
I've linked to the archived version of the DEA source with the caption that is missing from the live version in the meantime though. If that addresses your concern there, save yourself some time and don't worry about the diffs for that anymore.
But in the absence of you providing diffs for the people complaining they couldn't see the powder, I'm going to have to make a guess. If this guess is wrong, please don't become angry, becasue I'm doing my best with the limited information I have. From what you're telling me, I'm getting the impression the caption used to be "Fentanyl. 2 mg is a lethal dose in most people", and then you added the text "(white powder to the right)" to address that the white powder was hard to see by some editors? Is that correct? If that is the case (and keep in mind you haven't showed me the posts of what the people complaining actually said so I'm forced to guess), don't you think the reason they couldn't tell what the fentanyl was is because nobody had clarified it was in powder form? Clarifying the picture has fentanyl somewhere in it by only mentioning the word fentanyl in an initial one-word sentence would be a particularly poor way of explaining things, and if that was the case it's no wonder that caused confusion. If the word powder isn't in the caption, and someone has bad eyesight, it's reasonable to assume they'd miss that. It's very faint after all. This is the assumption I reached from what you told me. Specifically because of that, when I copy-edited the caption to remove the wording and NUMNOTES issues, I still clarified the fentanyl in the picture was in powder form, and I specified it was on the right so readers know where to look. Accordingly, I honestly don't understand what the issue still is. Even someone with bad eyesight knows what to look for, and where to look for it. Damien Linnane (talk) 16:46, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

I just found a better image, and put it in the article (see diff) in place of the penny image:

 
A two milligram dose of fentanyl powder (on pencil tip) is a lethal amount for most people.[1]

References

  1. ^ One Pill Can Kill. US Drug Enforcement Administration.

My edit summary: "Better image I just found. Feel free to reword any part of it or the reference. I rarely use citation templates since I can get the same result faster without them. If you also want to put both images up, feel free, but there may not be room at the top. Could put old image after the table."

I used your caption for the most part, and substituted "on pencil tip". Many Americans (and others) have no clue what a milligram is. So I spelled it out and linked it.

I personally would put a small gallery section after the table. Title the section "Gallery". Then it would be easy to get to via the table of contents. Put the penny image there since it is difficult to find good images from reliable sources that can be trusted as to the size of fentanyl that can kill. Put in a few individual images of people who have died. It would make the article more meaningful. The composite image at the top is not enough in my opinion. A lot of people will not click the composite image to get to the larger size. But it is a good image at the top. --Timeshifter (talk) 18:12, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. If we have a stand-alone image this is much better for several reasons, including the fact Wikipedia discourages using coins for comparison entirely. Damien Linnane (talk) 22:21, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
I've been trying to figure out why this small edit has created such a protracted discussion, and I think I understand now. I think both of us are too defensive because of our past experiences with the image and the list. I think you've been defensive about the old image because you had to go through the experience of someone trying to delete it previously. I've been defensive because getting this list to featured status was incredibly difficult and time consuming. It took well over a year or regular editing just to get it in a good enough shape to nominate it. Featured status has insanely high standards, one of which is making sure all references of the same type are formatted in the same manner. An additional image was not required during the featured review, so when you added something that is not required for featured status but contained different reference formatting, I reformatted the reference so that your addition would no longer violate the featured criteria. When you reverted that and made it violate the featured criteria again, I got defensive about that and anything else that wasn't a requirement for featured status that also didn't look like an improvement to me. Obviously there were other issues, but I think that's how it started and I just wanted to say it's regrettable the conversation deteriorated and I apologise for any grief cased. You don't have to respond to this. I still think the table caption is silly and unnecessary as per my previous comments, but I'll reinstate it as a sign of goodwill since the guideline does indeed recommend it. Damien Linnane (talk) 23:17, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_deaths_from_drug_overdose_and_intoxication/Archive_1&oldid=1254532594"