Talk:List of highest-grossing Punjabi-language films

Article scope

Let's discuss the scope of this article here. Should it include only Punjabi-language films made in India? Should it also include Punjabi-language films made in Pakistan? What about films made in both those countries? What about other countries? I'm hoping we can build a consensus but, barring that, perhaps we can use the various proposals in a future RfC. Woodroar (talk) 01:39, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

• Include all Punjabi-language films, no matter where they are made. My suggestion is to include every film in Punjabi, whether it was made in India, Pakistan, both, or somewhere else entirely. As mentioned at the ANI discussion, I believe that reliable sources support this. For example: Deadline Hollywood calls Pakistani film The Legend of Maula Jatt "the highest-grossing Punjabi movie" and also "a Pakistan-made or Punjabi-language film". In other articles, they stress where films were made rather than assuming "Punjabi" means "Indian": "The Punjabi film hails from 'Pollywood'" and "an Indian Punjabi family comedy". Variety also calls The Legend of Maula Jatt a "Punjabi-language film" here and here. IndieWire also specifies where a film was made, again avoiding implying that "Punjabi" means "Indian": "Punjabi-language Indian film". Even The Times of India and The Indian Express call The Legend of Maula Jatt a "Punjabi film" here and here. Per our Core Content Policies, we should always look to reliable sources for how we describe and categorize our subjects. I don't think this case is any different. Woodroar (talk) 01:41, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

• @SunnyKambojLive, نعم البدل, Jahaza, Rsjaffe, Silver seren, and Nfitz: Can the editors who opined about the article scope at the ANI discussion, please comment on whether User:Woodroar's proposal is acceptable to them, or if an WP:RFC should be initiated? Abecedare (talk) 01:54, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  I don't have a specific opinion. Either separate by nation or not. @Woodroar is approaching the issue the correct way. It is a conversation about how films are best organized and how people looking up things in Wikipedia will best be served. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 02:13, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  Let's do one thing. Add all films and differ them by using a column of country of origin. The article is already long enough and adding films from Pakistan will make it even longer. Though I never had a problem with more knowledge.

  But also allow me to create another article - List of Highest-Grossing Indian-Punjabi (Panjabi) films using the same data that others and I have contributed in this article. And, I will make it a sub article of List of highest-grossing Indian films, like other regional cinemas of India. SunnyKambojLive (talk) 02:17, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  See WP:POVFORK for why we can't do that. Woodroar (talk) 02:44, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  Seconded - I'm not sure the point of creating a second article at this time. Nfitz (talk) 07:44, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  Why do Indian Punjabi films need to be exclusively categorised in an entirely separate article, why can they not be just included with all other Punjabi films? نعم البدل (talk) 13:05, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

  I agree and accept his proposal. All Punjabi films, regardless of their origin, should be included in this article. نعم البدل (talk) 13:02, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

This article originally only had Indian Punjabi films. Browsing through different sections, it is clearly evident that all the data is from Punjab (India) apart from one minor inclusion of "The Legend of Maula Jatt", which has further initiated a debate on the scope of this article. Pakistan produced Punjabi films should have a completely separate article. Adding a section for them will make this article very long. Although highly unlikely, I hope we can reach a consensus. Mr. Harsh 06:38, 8 May 2023 (UTC) Mr. Harsh 06:38, 8 May 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harshjot singh gahunia (talk • contribs)

Harshjot singh gahunia, the oldest version of the article, before it was renamed multiple times, mentioned both India and Pakistan. Woodroar (talk) 12:28, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

List of highest grossing Indian Films have categories based on languages for all the regional cinema films. That why there should be discrimination for Indian Punjabi films?

I mean how it will be logical that List of Indian films contains an article about Punjabi films, and further Punjabi films will also have information about Pakistani Punjabi films. I don't know why people are not understanding this simple logic.

So, basically highest grossing Pakistani Punjabi films will come under Highest grossing Indian Films?

That's the reason we need to create a second article. SunnyKambojLive (talk) 17:31, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

I think I should ask a few people Indian Punjabi people to come here and debate. Will that do what we are trying to achieve? Consensus? SunnyKambojLive (talk) 17:33, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

No, that would be canvassing. Woodroar (talk) 17:49, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @SunnyKambojLive: While neutrally worded posts at WT:INCINE, WT:PAK, and WT:FILM would be ok, be careful not to fall afoul of WP:CANVASS. Abecedare (talk) 17:56, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Can someone answer my question above to reach consensus? I don't know why the discussion has suddenly stopped after I got blocked from editing the article in question. Have we reached consensus? What's the final decision? SunnyKambojLive (talk) 19:52, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

It can take days or weeks for a consensus to develop, just give it time.

For what it's worth, I think you'd have a better shot at convincing others if your argument was based on our content policies and not WP:OTHERCONTENT. It really doesn't matter what other articles are like. For all we know, they—like this article—don't reflect what reliable sources actually say. Like it or not, when sources talk about Punjabi films, they tend to mean all films in the Punjabi language, not only films from India. Woodroar (talk) 20:53, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

I like it even love it when they combine Punjab or Punjabis in any way. I am not a hatemonger. It is just that my logical reasoning does not allow me to think that these films can be put in one article. Even if we put them in the same, as many people want, I don't really have a problem. If it gives others peace of mind. There are just two films in Pakistani Punjabi category of highest grossing Pakistani films.

Now, arises another question. Do we need to put only Pakistani Punjabi films here? Or Pakistani-Urdu/Punjabi films as well. Because, then another situation will arise. A large number of Bollywood films since 1970s or even before that, contain Urdu language (e.g Sholay) and are considered Urdu/Hindustani films. Do we need to create another article where Urdu Indian and Urdu Pakistani films will come under the same article of list of highest-grossing Urdu films as more Muslim/Urdu speaking population resides in India than Pakistan (same as more Punjabi population resides in Pakistan than in India). My question is based on the same logic by which we are trying to put Punjabi films together irrespective of the country. Thanks. SunnyKambojLive (talk) 02:52, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Good question. The film should be majorly Punjabi. I'm sure the films listed in this article do contain Hindi dialogues or dialogues from other languages including English, but of course the main language should be Punjabi. Punjabi-Urdu films or Punjabi-Hindi films shouldn't be allowed. نعم البدل (talk) 19:04, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

As far as Urdu films are concerned, I doubt such an article would even be needed - let alone categorised to that extent (Urdu Indian/Pakistani etc). Nowadays, no high-grossing Indian films are specified to be in the Urdu language, and Urdu language films that are somewhat popular are only made in Pakistan. Old Bollywood films Sholay are (unfortunately) popularly known as Hindi films, not Urdu or Hindustani, despite dialogues originally being written in Urdu. نعم البدل (talk) 19:08, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

I would follow the sources. If reliable sources tend to call a film in Punjabi and Urdu a "Punjabi film", then I think it should be included. Woodroar (talk) 22:04, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Also, if Pakistani Punjabi films are going to be added, kindly convert the collections in INR and other foreign currencies wherever required. And, I think it is required at all the places except for Pakistan category, where PKR will be required. SunnyKambojLive (talk) 01:59, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

• The article primarily covers details about Punjabi cinema, with only a few films from Lollywood. For a global article representing the highest-grossing films across countries, there should be equal representation of content from both regions. Furthermore, the article should be sourced from media outlets with a neutral perspective on box office figures for both countries. Currently, the article does not meet these standards. Despite the passage of time, only two Lollywood films are included, which does not qualify it as a global article. These entries could instead be included in the List of Highest-Grossing Pakistani Films under a language-specific section. Therefore, it is recommended to move the entries to the corresponding article. Once sufficient content is available to ensure equal representation, a global article can be created.Anoop Bhatia (talk) 23:35, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Revert

Someone please revert the recent disruptive editing (major change) that has been done on this page. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SunnyKambojLive (talk • contribs) 06:28, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

According to their edit summary, User:Jayanthkumar123 removed the content because "most of the content is unsourced". They're correct, as I only counted 4 sources, and I'm unsure if any of them would be considered reliable. Virtually all of it was unsourced. As far as I'm concerned, these edits are in line with our original research policy and are the opposite of disruptive editing.

If you have reliable sources that support all of the removed claims, then they can be restored. Woodroar (talk) 14:19, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I have reliable sources. And, I will edit those once I will be able to resume editing this page.

Also, the person who edited this is not fully correct as he removed even well-sourced content, which is disruptive editing and not in line with the original research policy (Wikipedia's). SunnyKambojLive (talk) 17:15, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

He removed country-wise collections of the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, Germany and Malaysia. Some of which were well-sourced. And I have fully reliable sources for other less sourced - like New Zealand, Germany and Malaysia, that's from where I added these collections. It is just that those were yet to be added but then, I was partially blocked from editing this page. Otherwise, those would also be added. It would be wise if he had first asked for the remaining sources before making changes.

He also removed well sourced Domestic Openings Section. SunnyKambojLive (talk) 17:34, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Wrongly Adjusted for inflation

User:نعم البدل, You have converted already inflated figures (and not original collections on Indian films) and arranged them in the wrong order. And, what do you mean by Rs. 12 billion? 12 billion means 1200 crores in PKR, while original collections are 238.9 Cr in PKR. Kindly correct those as previous arrangements were absolutely correct and also correct 12 billion thing. You added US currency, good. But at least don't disrupt the order with wrong inflated figures.

User:Woodroar Kindly correct these, if u have some time. SunnyKambojLive (talk) 08:52, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 May 2023

Hello I wanted to update you that Kali Jotta has for weeks been at 40.5 crore. Check Sacnilk or even Neeru Bajwa's instagram. Also Jodi is at 36 crore. These are the blockbusters of the year you should get them right. I am going to be submitting a link for you to see for yourself.

https://www.sacnilk.com/entertainmenttopbar/Pollywood_Box_Office_2023?hl=en

Going by these numbers Kali Jotta should be at number 8 between Chaar Sahibzade and Challa Mud Ke Ni Aya. And Jodi should be at number 10 between Sardarji and Challa Mere Putt 3. You have had the wrong update for Kali Jotta for months now. It is a historic film in terms of women centric movies doing well in Punjab. It is time to show your viewers a more realistic picture. SonikaG26 (talk) 18:40, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:08, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Remove Pakistanki film Maula jatt, not one credible source of given for its fake box office scores

All 3 sources cite the same fake website which is not recognized by Wikipedias standards. It’s a pretty well known fact this maula jatt movie did well under even 50 crore 199.119.233.132 (talk) 19:21, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Can you explain where in this Variety article that it's referencing any sort of other website? I'm not seeing anything like that. And Variety is very much considered a reliable source. Silverseren^C 19:28, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

About the changes made

• Moved Lollywood entries to the List of Highest-Grossing Pakistani Films under a language-specific section. Currently, there isn’t enough coverage to represent all Punjabi films here due to limited reporting and independent sources for box office data in both countries.
• Removed the inflation table due to the lack of reliable sources for most entries.
• Currency conversions were removed per WP:ICTFMOS.
• Renamed the article to avoid unnecessary confusion.

Anoop Bhatia (talk) 02:16, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

@Anoopspeaks:

Please elaborate on this:

• Moved Lollywood entries to the List of Highest-Grossing Pakistani Films under a language-specific section. Currently, there isn’t enough coverage to represent all Punjabi films here due to limited reporting and independent sources for box office data in both countries. – The Legend of Maula Jatt had more than enough of a coverage to be mentioned here. It has arguably had more coverage than any other Punjabi film out there. I'm sure data for other Lollywood movies is out there somewhere. نعم البدل (talk) 15:38, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

@نعم البدل Ensuring equal representation is essential; changing the scope of an article based on a single entry is incorrect. To create a global document representing all Punjabi films, it must include substantial data from all regions. In this case, that objective is not achieved. Anoop Bhatia (talk) 15:44, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

@Anoopspeaks:

• it must include substantial data from all regions. In this case, that objective is not achieved – Not without effort. It didn't help when users were meticulously removing Lollywood entries because they believed 'Punjabi' only meant 'Indian', and were gatekeeping the article. Nonetheless, as The Legend of Maula Jatt is the highest grossing Punjabi film, it definitely deserves a mention (and more) on this article. نعم البدل (talk) 15:50, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

@نعم البدل You raise a valid point, but I disagree with your conclusion. I looked extensively for data on the top 10 Pakistani Punjabi films, but reliable sources (per WP:RSP) are limited or non-existent. Without green-rated sources, it’s challenging to create a list that fairly represents films from both countries, as any rankings could easily be questioned due to inconsistent or unverifiable data.

Additionally, the article explicitly specifies that it covers the Punjabi film industry overall; nowhere does it claim to represent all Punjabi-language films. Just as Bengali films from West Bengal and Bangladesh aren’t combined, the limited availability of reliable Lollywood data restricts our ability to create a balanced list here. Without consistent sources, the article risks becoming a misrepresentation of Punjabi-language films. Anoop Bhatia (talk) 16:12, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

@Anoopspeaks:

• nowhere does it claim to represent all Punjabi-language films – Prior to your edits, the article specifically mentioned that it covers films from both India and Pakistan. Calling it 'List of highest-grossing Punjabi cinema films' and the not including a single Pakistani film, and that too the one which broke several records during its screening, and then also tailoring it towards Indian Punjabi, without specifically calling it an Indian Punjabi article is highly misleading. You can put a disclaimer that the article needs more references, but without a consensus you can't exclude Lollywood (Lahollywood) movies.
• Just as Bengali films from West Bengal and Bangladesh aren’t combined – I don't see a List of highest-grossing Bengali cinema films, rather List of highest-grossing Indian Bengali films, which specifically mentions that it's Indian Bengali films. Again, nowhere was it determined that this article was specifically limited to Indian films. Indian Wikipedians took it upon themselves to make it as such just because articles like List of highest-grossing Telugu films existed, which is just WP:OTHERCONTENT. نعم البدل (talk) 16:30, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

@نعم البدل You don’t see a List of Highest-grossing Bengali cinema films because of the ambiguity surrounding the term "Bengali". However, that's not the case here—Punjabi cinema is an established sub-industry of Indian cinema, while Pakistani Punjabi films are produced under Lollywood. There is no confusion in that distinction.

How does a document written specifically about the Punjabi film industry, with only a single exception from Lollywood, represent the entirety of Punjabi-language films? I’m not against creating such a document, but the lack of reliable sources doesn’t justify that approach. Additionally, the editors haven’t shown any effort to include other films and seem solely focused on a single entry. Building such a document based on just one film amounts to preferential treatment. Anoop Bhatia (talk) 17:29, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

@Anoopspeaks:

• Punjabi cinema is an established sub-industry of Indian cinema – The first line of Lollywood:

Lollywood is Pakistan's film industry, which has served as the base for both Urdu and Punjabi-language film production.

What you mean to say is that you feel that most of high grossing films in this decade are Indian (although that is not necessarily the whole truth). Just as Punjabi cinema is dominated by Indian films, previously Pakistani-films dominated the Punjabi scene.

• Punjabi cinema is an established sub-industry of Indian cinema – No it isn't just a "sub-industry" of Indian cinema. This "sub-industry" stuff is only relevant or understood by the people of India is because they have consciously developed these "sub-industries". That doesn't mean they have the authority on what is considered Punjabi and what isn't. That is straight up WP:POV. Pakistan has been a major factor in developing the Punjabi cinema, and continues to do so.
• I'm not against creating such a document, but the lack of reliable sources doesn’t justify that approach – Just because you have been unable to find reliable sources, doesn't mean that it's acceptable to completely change the POV of the article. We have templates like {{More citations needed}} for a reason, which is there to notify the community that more citations and references are needed. From what I can see, zero effort was made (like previously, and as usually is the case with niche Indo-Pak articles) to try and improve the Pakistani part of the article.

Whatever the case is, at the very least, there is one nomination that should be mentioned. Other can be added later. If there has to be specific article about Indian Punjabi films then Lists of Indian Punjabi films can be considered. نعم البدل (talk) 18:15, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Not to mention that you changed the title of the page without a discussion as well(!) نعم البدل (talk) 18:21, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

@نعم البدل I don’t understand why people fail to see the importance of fair representation. Using only a single entry from another industry and calling it "Punjabi-language films" is a misrepresentation. Additionally, Punjabi cinema is defined by Wikipedia as the film industry in Punjab, and Lollywood does not have any subdivisions to cause confusion. If your concern is about the single film not being mentioned, that can be remedied by adding, "In the worldwide box office, Punjabi cinema's highest-grossing film stands second to Lollywood's Punjabi film The Legend of Maula Jatt, which grossed PKR 400 crore." Anoop Bhatia (talk) 18:32, 30 October 2024 (UTC)