Talk:Little Saint James, U.S. Virgin Islands/Archive 1

Conspiracy Theories Regarding Island

From reading Reddit and several other sites, there appears to be a conspiracy theory about this island being a center of a sex abuse ring involving many politicians including Bill Clinton and others. It has to do with how the owner of this island is a registered sex offender. The Guardian mentions this in an article. Looking at this island on Google Maps, people have claimed there are strange buildings on the island that make no sense, including a sundail like structure, possible tunnel entrances, and a mosque-like building. Also, some claim that on Google Maps a portion of the island was photoshoped out with older images. Perhaps this strange idea should be mentioned somehow in this article? Lockethot (talk) 02:15, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

References

Long since deleted Instagram posts that many have attributed as evidence for pedophilic activity have been hashtagged with "#carisjames." Caribbean Island Little Saint James has been the common explanation for these hashtags. It's hard to verify if that is the case but it seems worth mentioning the speculation in this article as well. Optional Syntax (talk) 23:57, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Ownership history missing

It would be interesting to know when Epstein bought it and for how much. 124.184.70.17 (talk) 03:48, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Second this. Surely records must exist. Genetikbliss (talk) 15:58, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

″In 1998, for $7.95 million, Epstein purchased Little St. James Island, which is situated between the larger St. Thomas and St. John Islands.″ https://www.thecut.com/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-virgin-islands-little-st-james-house.html-- Qwerspam (talk) 19:44, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Underground works (tunnels)

Recent drone footage (July 2019) has been uploaded to a Youtube channel: "Rusty Shackleford", which has extensive coverage of Little St James. It clearly shows doors and ventilation works entering into the side of the island. On Google Earth it can clearly be seen that several beaches have been created from spoil (tailings from tunnelling) with regularly used shale roads and many vehicle tracs down to the beach. Rusty Shackleford's videos also shows a modern American type Ambulance parked on the Island, one of the few vehicles seen. This suggests that there is probably a sizeable medical facility on this tiny island, scary implications when considering the child trafficking allegations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.240.141 (talk) 11:44, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

WP:BLP

This obscure little article has turned into a COATRACK of BLP violations. Bill Clinton and Prince Andrew have their own articles, where unsavory speculation about their friendship with Epstein can appear in context and be kept in line with our policy.

Jeffrey Epstein was a sex criminal who owned the island and probably committed crimes there. Because of his behavior, locals gave it nicknames like "Pedophile Island" and "Orgy Island." A wide range of people visited the island, most of them unaware of Epstein's sexual creepiness and all of them probably unaware of the island's ugly reputation. The discussion of the one-night barbecue on the island in March 2006 is unusual in giving context to the fact that a number of well-known people "visited" the island. HouseOfChange (talk) 02:45, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

I disagree. Per WP:RELAR and {{BLPO}}, well-sourced allegations can be included. If they aren't defamatory on those articles, they aren't defamatory here. wumbolo ^^^ 12:32, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Concur with Wumbolo and the policies cited. Like the island itself, this "obscure little article" may be little, but it received over a quarter million views in August alone, so its obscurity is now history. And you have no basis to claim that even a single person among these uberwealthy, powerful and influential visitors to the island was oblivious to ANYthing. - JGabbard (talk) 13:55, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Cuncur with both Wunbolo and JGabbard. The deletion of select names whilst leaving others in the "visitors" section has nothing to do with WP:BLP. I will revert the change per consensus shown here. petrarchan47คุก 03:06, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

2022 follow-up: The two editors which established consensus to include the Hawking content are now permanently banned from the Wikipedia, so I don’t consider consensus established by them valid any longer. There was no allegation of improper behavior made; Hawking went to the island for a conference but he was never accused of sexual misconduct (not on the island, not anywhere else). Since people are treating Hawking’s presence on the island as some kind of implicit accusation of misconduct, I have trimmed down the paragraph and have added a sentence saying he was never accused of wrongdoing. Samboy (talk) 15:30, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

On second thought, I think it’s best to remove this section entirely unless we get consensus to include it again. It’s not mentioned in the Stephen Hawking article, so mentioning his visit is WP:UNDUE. Previous consensus, again, is invalid because the two editors who supported its inclusion are now both permanently banned from the Wikipedia. Samboy (talk) 15:37, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

@Samboy: Yes, and ... If somebody's connection to Epstein wasn't important enough to be mentioned in his/her article (or Epstein's article) then it's WP:UNDUE to imply connection using this article. If there was a significant association between some person and the island itself, e.g. David Copperfield getting married there, that makes sense to include. HouseOfChange (talk) 06:00, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Absolutely correct. Sure, Stephen Hawking is no longer with us, but a lot of other people, many of whom are still alive, were at that 2006 conference, so there are serious BLP issues with mentioning the 2006 conference. One of the editors who supported including the content was topic banned from conspiracy theories (further reading here and here), so never should had participated in this article. The other editor who supported inclusion of this accusation was finally indefinitely banned for serious WP:BLP violations. Point being, both editors are editors who have been determined by the Wikipedia community to have serious problems with making appropriate edits regarding sensitive issues such as who went to this island. Samboy (talk) 22:06, 17 December 2022 (UTC)