Talk:Long Bow Trilogy

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 17:18, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

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• ... that the Long Bow Trilogy includes interviews with rural Chinese villagers who were the topic of the director's father's book Fanshen?Source: "When students have first been primed with readings from William Hinton's two classic prose documentaries of life in Long Bow Village (Fanshen [1968] and Shenfan [1984]), the films may be especially rewarding. They put faces to a few familiar names and give us images—of donkeycarts rattling over the tired earth, of bundled babies in bare adobe courtyards—that validate the village Hinton's books have already brought to life in our minds." ([1]

Created by Paragon Deku (talk). Self-nominated at 05:32, 16 July 2021 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Article is new enough, long enough, well-sourced, neutral and plagiarism-free. However, it has an {{orphan}} on it. To pass DYK, you will have address the issue (add links from other articles to this one) and remove it. The hook is interesting; however, if I am not mistaken, the article does not mention that the trilogy interviews rural Chinese villagers. Also, while this may just be my personal preference, two possessives in a row ("director's father's [...]") seems a bit messy. Lastly, the QPQ is not needed. Pamzeis (talk) I am not watching this page so please ping me if you want my attention. 09:38, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

@Pamzeis: I've fixed the orphan status by linking from the director's page. The article does mention that members of Long Bow village were interviewed. It's the entire subject of the trilogy, in fact. Paragon Deku (talk) 03:09, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, yes, it does mention that members of Long Bow village were interviewed but that's not what the hook states. I'm pretty sure (but correct me if I'm wrong) that the says "rural Chinese villagers" which I can't see anywhere in the article. Am I wrong? Pamzeis (talk) 04:31, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

@Pamzeis: That seems incredibly pedantic. Longbow village is in China. The villagers are rural Chinese villagers. I don't think the article needs to mention this because it's redundant and the Chinese nationality of the villagers is clearly discussed (the movies are largely about cultural tradition and changes in daily life due to the cultural revolution and farm collectivization). The book referenced in the hook even includes "Chinese Village" in its subtitle. If you think I need to rewrite the hook to clarify that they are in Long Bow I can, but that seems redundant. Paragon Deku (talk) 06:18, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Hmmm... then we might have a problem per WP:DYKRULES #3a: The hook should include a definite fact that is mentioned in the article (emphasis in original). Would you be able to suggest an alt? Pamzeis (talk) 08:35, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

You can replace "rural Chinese Villagers" with "villagers from Long Bow Village," but this is really a matter of WP:BLUE in my opinion. Paragon Deku (talk) 09:03, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

I guess we could do that... but it would make the hook quite boring... Could you offer any other alternatives? Pamzeis (talk) 12:29, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

How would it make the hook boring? This feels like making a problem where one doesn’t exist for the sake of appearing thorough. Paragon Deku (talk) 02:16, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, if someone told me a film trilogy called Long Bow trilogy interviews Long Bow villagers, I would find it quite unsurprising. I think the hook likely won't catch attention. Actually, I'm doubtful how interesting ALT0 would be if Long Bow villagers are all rural Chinese villagers... BTW, ping me in the future (unless you wanna get late replies...) Pamzeis (talk) 07:38, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

@Pamzeis: The interesting part is that the trilogy provides filmed footage and interviews of people and places directly mentioned in a reasonably famous book by the director’s father. Fanshen is well known in Asian and Marxist studies, but the trilogy less so due to not having widespread release in America, mostly being limited to classrooms. Paragon Deku (talk) 07:54, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. If that is what makes it interesting, I suggest you make that more prominent. Right now, it seems like the point is that they interviewed the villagers, not that it was adapted(?) from a book. Happy editing! Pamzeis (talk) 07:57, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

I don’t feel like this has been very helpful at all, and I feel like you’ve just skimmed the article considering these questions. Paragon Deku (talk) 09:10, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

I'm sorry that you find this unhelpful. If you don't want to continue this anymore, you can withdraw the nomination. While I'm not sure what questions you're talking about, I admit that I have sort of skimmed the article just to check for readability and neutrality. I find the fact that the film is a "classroom film" or that narration is kept to a minimum quite interesting (alts provided below).

• ALT1: ... that films from the Long Bow Trilogy have become common in classrooms?
• ALT2: c

Let me know what you think. Pamzeis (talk) 12:17, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

I think the link to Fanshen is the more interesting hook. How about *ALT3: ... that films from the Long Bow Trilogy depict the same village and villagers mentioned in Fanshen? Paragon Deku (talk) 05:57, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

AGFing on some of the offline sources. ALT1, 2 and 3 all fine by me! Pamzeis (talk) 08:58, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

To T:DYK/P7

Gender roles? Intended meaning?

I think the term "gender roles" is being used wrongly, or at least unclearly in the article. 'Gender roles' surely refers to the roles a society customarily sets for men and women (She cooks/washes the house/cares for the children - He hunts and protects the family). The text uses are "The film is named for a village proverb that reflects gender roles: "To give birth to a boy is considered a big happiness. To give birth to a girl is a small happiness." … and … However, gender roles are not yet equal, with a woman testifying that she had to stop driving a tractor because it was not considered "convenient" for men and women to work together.

In the first example it is surely the difference in value placed on boys/girls, rather than any roles assigned to either which is exemplified by the proverb, and in the second it is something like the sexes are not yet equal, or that stereotypes of gender roles, still prevent women doing certain tasks. I don't have access to any of the sources so don't know which 'guess' is more correct. Pincrete (talk) 13:46, 31 August 2021 (UTC)