Talk:Lonnie R. Bristow

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by reviewer, closed by AirshipJungleman29 talk 13:36, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

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• ... that Lonnie R. Bristow, the first black president of the American Medical Association, was inspired to enter medicine by his mother, a nurse? Source: [1] [2]
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Andrea Carla Michaels

Created by 97198 (talk). Self-nominated at 06:30, 25 November 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Lonnie R. Bristow; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Reviewing... New enough, long enough, QPQ provided. Will complete soon, though I think a better hook than being inspired by his mother could be made. Whispyhistory (talk) 12:21, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

... Interesting article bio, no copyvio issues, hook is in the article and verified but not as interesting as the work he has done. The lead is short. I have added some text. Thank you for creating this. Suggest work on some of his achievements and an alternative hook may become apparent. Whispyhistory (talk) 07:20, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

• @97198: Please respond to the above. Z1720 (talk) 18:40, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

• @Whispyhistory and Z1720: The nominator hasn't edited since the day of the nomination. Given that Whispyhistory has added to the article, would you be willing to adopt this nomination or suggest new hooks yourself? Or should the nomination be closed as abandoned? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:48, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

• @Narutolovehinata5: ...Sure, I will look this weekend Whispyhistory (talk) 17:23, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@Whispyhistory: Just following up on this. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:44, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Still on the case @Narutolovehinata5: please... Whispyhistory (talk) 20:21, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

• ALT2 ... that Lonnie R. Bristow, the first black president of the American Medical Association, has encouraged diversity in the medical profession and dispelled misinformation on sickle cell trait?

. Whispyhistory (talk) 10:35, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

• ALT2 relies on two citations. The references are two papers, each of which provide citations to Bristow to make claims about the consequences of misunderstanding sickle cell but do not explicitly credit Bristow with contradicting this misinformation in any particular way. I would argue the content of the article might constitute original research in terms of how it utilizes these two sources. Pinging both Whispyhistory as ALT2 creator and 97198 as original nominator. ~ Pbritti (talk) 19:01, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

• @Pbritti: Sorry all for my long absence and thanks Whispyhistory for significantly expanding the article (I've added a credit for you if this ends up running). If there are doubts about the alt hook (which I can't speak to, as I didn't come across this information in the secondary sources I used), I still feel the original hook is plenty interesting enough to be considered. 97198 (talk) 00:05, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Unfortunately, no, I am rejecting the hooks. The original source for this claim says "One of the things that most impressed me in those visits was the realization that many cultures were represented on the staff". The article gets it right that it was visits to his mother at her workplace which served as inspiration, rather than his mother herself. Indeed, the article should read that the visits were an inspiration, because the quote that sources this says this was only "one of the reasons [he] chose the medical profession". Since this hook has suffered repeated setbacks for over a month since it was first reviewed, I am rejecting it. I'm sorry, 97198. ~ Pbritti (talk) 17:37, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

ALT3 ... that Lonnie R. Bristow, the first black president of the American Medical Association, noted that the problem with compulsory mass testing of sickle cell disease could lead to the racial status providing grounds to increase insurance premiums? Whispyhistory

• ALT4 ... that physician Lonnie R. Bristow observed that one problem with mass testing for sickle cell disease is that it isn't always clear who is black? Philafrenzy (talk) 07:15, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
  • Striking original hooks per Pbritti, and ALT3 because it's 243 characters, far beyond what's allowed. Pbritti, can you please check ALT4? Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:10, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I came to approve this hook, but I can't see the phrase "who is black or how black is black" in the source.--Launchballer 12:35, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

@Philafrenzy and Pbritti: Forgot to ping properly.--Launchballer 12:37, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Quoted in chapter by T. Duster in Advances in Social Theory and Methodology (Routledge, 2015); "Bristow noted many difficulties with mass sickle cell tests: It’s not always possible to determine “who is black or how black is black,” he said."[3] Whispyhistory (talk) 13:36, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Fair cop. Let's roll.--Launchballer 15:36, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer and Whispyhistory: I understand the hook after reading the article, but on its own the correlation between mass testing for sickle cell disease and who is black is rather confusing. Some more clarity in the hook would help. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:51, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

ALT5 ... that physician Lonnie R. Bristow observed that one problem with compulsorily testing black people for sickle cell disease is that it is not always clear who is black?--Launchballer 20:03, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Unpromoted per request from Philafrenzy on my talk, who feels that the introduction of the word "compulsorily" misrepresents what Bristow said. I don't quite get this objection, considering he was speaking in opposition to compulsory testing regulations, but regardless a new hook is now needed, since ALT4 is too unclear. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:30, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, the change put a spin on the hook that made it sound like it was the compulsory nature of the testing that he had a problem with. In fact, if I understand the quote correctly, he was just saying that mass testing by skin colour is problematic because skin colour varies. I see no problem with Alt4 which makes that clear. Philafrenzy (talk) 11:07, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Agree.. ALT4 is accurate. I will try and elaborate on the topic soon, if helps. Whispyhistory (talk) 17:41, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

ALT4 does not say anything about skin colour before the seemingly-random "who is black", meaning that it's rather unintelligble to a general reader. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:19, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

There's nothing random about it at all. Sickle cell disease is mainly contracted by black people. Philafrenzy (talk) 11:10, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Hence why I said seemingly-random—"readers with no special knowledge or interest" in the topic cannot be expected to know the distributions of individual diseases. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:19, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

The correlation between skin colour and Sickle cell disease is fairly well known and has been the subject of many public information campaigns. In any case, it is linked for those that require further explanation with details in the lead of the linked article. Half the hooks on the front page require some sort of background knowledge to understand if you don't click on the linked terms. For instance, we currently have gravitational wave antenna, ecosystems, and the completely cryptic "that Skibidi Toilet inspired the Generation Alpha slang "skibidi"?" By contrast Alt4 is a model of clarity and doesn't use any jargon at all. Philafrenzy (talk) 15:59, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

@Philafrenzy: I'm honestly mystified how "skibiti" even made it to DYK lmao vghfr 17:39, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Please remember to indent your comments, and that you are writing for an international audience. The issue with this hook is not that the words are hard to know, but that even if you understand all the words, the hook is still incomprehensible. I've made my thoughts clear, so I'll leave this for another reviewer/promoter to have a look. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:00, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

ALT6 ... that physician Lonnie R. Bristow led a report on the benefits of America having an ethnically diverse medical workforce? [4]] Whispyhistory (talk) 16:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

On interestingness grounds, I don't think ALT6 makes the cut. This nomination has been open for over two months now, and Pbritti's mark for closure was, for some reason, totally ignored. It was a perfectly reasonable call for them to say that it's been an entire month of reviewer time and energy to try and get this over the line, and we shouldn't indulge a sunk-cost fallacy to allow for an indefinite workshopping at the expense of more reviewer and promoter energy. And now it's been another month. As much as I think 97198 is a great article writer, as are Whispyhistory and Philafrenzy, I don't think that getting even more mired in this is productive. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 02:19, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Why can't we use ALT4 ... that physician Lonnie R. Bristow observed that one problem with mass testing for sickle cell disease is that it isn't always clear who is black? It's pithy and based on a quote by the subject. (I suspect some sort of fear that it might be racist or controversial. It isn't) Philafrenzy (talk) 10:28, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

If I had thought it was racist or controversial, I would not have promoted ALT5. ALT4, as I have explained on multiple occasions, is unclear to the general reader. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:32, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

In any case, leeky is correct that this is now two months and one week old, and, considering Pbritti's earlier rejection and this present one, I'll close this nomination. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:35, 1 February 2024 (UTC)