Talk:Luhansk Oblast campaign/Archive 1

Archive 1

Is 'rasputitsa' neutral here?

This is a Russia word. Xx236 (talk) 08:57, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

It generally refers to the seasonal phenomenon, so I think it is appropriate to use here, it's not necessarily uniquely confined to the borders of Russia GramCanMineAway (talk) 05:51, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Fighting reached the actual city outskirts of Kreminna today, Christmas 2022.

Should we adjust the infobox and information as such? In my opinion, we can have a battle of Kreminna starting today and one for Svatove when the fighting reaches there. @EkoGraf @Lucasoliveira653 @Mr.User200 PilotSheng (talk) 06:22, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

The background portion is literally only one sentence so we can take the body and move it to the background and start a new body for the military actions starting 25 Dec PilotSheng (talk) 06:26, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

I would also not be opposed to renaming this “Battle of the Svatove-Kreminna Line” but something has to be done about this now. Either the date or name has to change because if one is correct the other is definitely wrong. PilotSheng (talk) 06:30, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

@PilotSheng The fighting near Kreminna is basically where it was two months ago. The recent Ukrainian advance through the forest southwest of Kreminna that took place recently was actually them retaking territory they lost about a month ago to the Russians. As stated above, I am all for merging the Svatove and Kreminna articles into one and titled Battle of the Svatove-Kreminna Line. EkoGraf (talk) 22:46, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

The Russian counteroffensive has been underway since January 27

Folks, the Russians apparently started a counter-offensive about ten days ago, which became visible to the naked eye from February 1, no matter how much the media in the West and the Ukrainian side, which is suffering huge losses, did not like it, and it cannot be hidden. The last days of January seemed to me to be the usual random Russian artillery barrage in the Ukrainian trenches testing new weapons. However, the cutting of the forest using the BMPT Terminator apparently gave results after a few days by moving the front line from the far north to across the Donets River in the south. There is even a mention of the Ukrainian withdrawal from the town of Bilohorivka, which the Russians have not been able to capture since September. Ukrainians are now suffering what the Russians experienced in September and October. It is obvious that the Russians brought in large reinforcements and used a ruse in Zaporizhzhia on January 19 to launch a counterattack on the Svatove-Kreminna line after eight days, similar to the Ukrainian counterattack in Kherson last year on August 29, and then on September 6 a much stronger counteroffensive and a breakthrough at Balakleya on the Izhyum-Kupyansk line when the Russian front literally disintegrated and the Russians retreated for weeks leaving town after town to Ukrainian forces until the surrender of Lyman. The Ukrainian front has not completely disintegrated yet, but it is obvious that the Ukrainians are almost crushed on all parts of the front up to the Zherebets River. The matter will become clearer in the coming days, but it is obvious that the fall of Soledar and the huge effort to defend Bakhmut has taken a heavy toll on the Ukrainian side as Russia brings in new mobilized forces and new weapons. From a military point of view, this is also a logical solution because on the main page I talked about Russian intentions to surround Seversk in the Donetsk Oblast, because this summer they were stopped right near that city and suffered a defeat, which represents a great humiliation for them. It seems to me that they want to drive the Ukrainians out of those forests before spring, before the trees have leafed out, because then the Ukrainians will have better positions for camouflage, but also to make it difficult for the Ukrainian side to have the protection of Seversk from the north across the Donets River. – Baba Mica (talk) 21:45, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

If you want to add this stuff to the article, do you have a source for any of it? Otherwise this falls under WP:NOTAFORUM. HappyWith (talk) 23:41, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

im not reading all that but if you want to add that in use a source 🍁🏳️‍🌈 DinoSoupCanada 🏳️‍🌈 🍁 (talk) 01:05, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Belligerents:Luhansk PR

Hello. To everyone reading this, I hope you have a good day. But we need to do something about this article. The Second Battle of Kreminna began on October 2nd. Russia annexed the Luhansk People’s Republic On September 30th, 3 days earlier. So why is the LPR listed in belligerents? It is now Russia. If you count the LPR because they have a military, you'd have to count the Wagner, Chechnya, and hundreds of others. And their all the same country. Yavneh (talk) 21:40, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

The stuff about the LPR being in the battle wasn't even sourced, so I removed it. HappyWith (talk) 16:58, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Gramatical errors

I noticed a grammatical error today, as it said Svatove “falled” on March 6. Crack down on further errors in this article. 96.242.227.52 (talk) 22:07, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

 Done. HappyWith (talk) 19:09, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Second Battle of Kreminna

There is no fighting in Kreminna or on Kreminna’s outskirts. Due to this, it is inaccurate to call it a battle. I’d suggest changing it to Draft:Battle of Kreminna. 96.242.227.52 (talk) 21:47, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Agree. EkoGraf (talk) 00:03, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. Fighting has not yet reached Kreminna. This seems like WP: CRYSTALBALL to me. PilotSheng (talk) 17:07, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Disagree. I mean, the article of the second battle of lyman was created even before the fighting starte din the city, the battle is about one side wnting to liberate the ciry and the other trying to hold it, so maintain the tilte second battle of Kreminna Lucasoliveira653 (talk) 00:29, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

See WP:NOTCRYSTALBALL. The Lyman article was created because the fighting that took place near Lyman was verified by sources to be part of an organized and active offensive to take the city. Note - there was no actual fighting in Lyman itself. No sources currently confirm an active Ukrainian offensive with the goal of capturing Kreminna. EkoGraf (talk) 03:30, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Ok now the fighting has beeing very close to kreminna now, looks like Ukraine is trying to do the same hng that they did in Lyman, so keep the page Lucasoliveira653 (talk) 02:14, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Still no sources there is an organized military operation to capture Kreminna. The back-and-forth fighting has been close to Kreminna for the last two months. EkoGraf (talk) 12:29, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

So we should merge this with Battle of Svatovr and call it "Luhansk Counteroffensive"? Lucasoliveira653 (talk) 13:00, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

I would be more inclined towards this. Merging the Svatove and Kreminna articles into one. Since this is a continues frontline section. Although not sure about calling it a "counteroffensive". Like I said, no sources confirming there is an active military operation/offensive taking place. I would go more along the lines of "Svatove-Kreminna campaign" or something like that. EkoGraf (talk) 23:25, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Hm, makes sense Lucasoliveira653 (talk) 12:34, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Or an article simply titled the "Svatove-Kreminna line" as named here [1]. EkoGraf (talk) 12:54, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

@EkoGraf Ok then, lets make a proposal of mixing Battle of svatove with this article, and renaming it "Battle of the Svatove-Kreminna line"?

But you can use other names too Lucasoliveira653 (talk) 13:42, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm fine with that title. EkoGraf (talk) 17:02, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Well so lets make the merge and rename proposal Lucasoliveira653 (talk) 18:35, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Battles are typically named after nearby features. Combat does not have to occur in the feature itself for history to remember the battle as "Battle of feature". This is particularly true if the feature is a tiny village; the battle would typically be named after a nearby city. Jaredroach (talk) 17:55, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Except this battle is taking place near two cities, along the frontline between Svatove and Kreminna. So "Battle of the Svatove-Kreminna line" is more than appropriate. EkoGraf (talk) 21:27, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Name?

The ISW refers to this as the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna line, just wanted to know why we decided to name it just the Svatove-Kreminna line? Including Kupyansk would extend the frontline all the way into the Kharkiv oblast, close to the Russian border. (aka where the Kharkiv counteroffensive ended, the Oskil river) Scu ba (talk) 16:29, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

They aren't consistent with the name, they often call it "Svatove-Kreminna line" as well. See yesterday's report, for example. I think we could totally provide a note in the lead saying "Also called the battle of the Kupiansk-Svatove-Kreminna line", if editors got some sources for it. HappyWith (talk) 18:48, 30 July 2023 (UTC)