Talk:M (New York City Subway service)

Description

Do we really need that section? I don't think it's important to go into that detail about the subway service. I mean, the crunch of the service details are already in the summary and subway service pattern. The M is the only article that has this section.The Legendary Ranger 10:54, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Alleged confusion

An editor has tried several times to insert:

When it runs its full length, the M is the only line in the entire system that leaves and re-enters the same borough (Brooklyn). During rush hours, this is sometimes a source of confusion for riders boarding in Manhattan seeking a "Brooklyn-bound" M train.

The first sentence is obvious. I don't know how interesting or relevant it is, but it is clearly true. But the second sentence is an opinion, and therefore needs to be backed up with reliable sources. It isn't sufficient that an editor thinks it is true or has experienced it himself. Without verification, it is considered original research.

For what it's worth, the statement seems dubious. The M is almost exclusively a commuter train. And a commuters—people who ride the same route every day—will generally know where they are going, practically in their sleep.

But in any case, I have no obligation to disprove the statement. The burden of proof is on the editor who wishes to add it. Please find a reliable source (something you can cite with a footnote, such as a newspaper article). Otherwise, however true you may believe it to be, it has no place in Wikipedia. Marc Shepherd (talk) 21:40, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure if it is confusing to riders. However, it is still a fact that at that time, the M runs through the same borough twice in one trip, so I added that fact in, but no the opinion about riders being confused about this. I mean, after September 11, the J also ran through the same borough twice replacing the R in Brooklyn. The Legendary Ranger (talk) 17:46, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I can live with that fact written in without the "opinion", because it what makes the M unique. While daily riders of the M will not be confused by the M going to Brooklyn twice, there are people who do not ride the M normally and then have to take the M for whatever reason to Brooklyn. I have seen several cases where people looking for some stop on the M in Brooklyn and then look horrified and get off when they figure out that their train is running in the opposite direction (though the train is in Brooklyn). Here's a conversation I had with an individual at Fulton Street...

Dude: Is this the M to Brooklyn?

Me: Yeah. What stop are you looking for?

Dude: Flushing Ave.

Me: Go to the opposite platform. Walk down to the A/C platform, walk down the platform and find the stairs that leads back up to the Queens bound M side. That M train will go to your stop first [I say Queens side because no train on this platform heads to Queens.]

If I just said yeah in response to his original question, he would have headed to Brooklyn and then wondered where is Flushing Ave. I've had similar conversations with other customers.

But this stuff is unsourceable (if that's a word) so I'll leave the "opinion" out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.3.8.253 (talk • contribs) 15:54, 24 December 2007

Removed statement, (now about queens) L train does the same thing. 67.247.23.150 (talk) 21:58, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I am going to tag the verifiably false statement with citation needed. I hereby challenge the veracity of it, and will remove it in 2 days if no citation is given. 71.190.44.152 (talk) 23:15, 15 July 2011 (UTC) (Same person as above)

Infobox

Can someone please update the NYCS service infobox for the M to reflect the change to the orange bullet, and, preferably, update the map?

The bullet to be used is here: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NYCS-bull-trans-M.svg>

Thanks!Avman89 (talk) 05:34, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

The map is still of the Lower Manhattan routing. How do we update that? --69.91.134.161 (talk) 09:12, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Not exactly sure, but I believe the map might have to be manually edited and updated.--IGeMiNix (talk) 03:35, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

As you may have noticed, I took care of editing the map, as well as maps for the G and Q lines. I also took the liberty of editing templates and information on several non-English versions of this page, to which the map and the orange M bullet have already propagated. R36 (talk) 22:51, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Nice, although it seems the M page still needs a refresh for the current map to show up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by IGeMiNix (talk • contribs) 05:47, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Revert

Why was this reverted? The M to Broad Street ended already. IGeMiNix (talk) 05:54, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I don't understand that either. The service changes do not go into effect until tomorrow, that's true. But the weekend shuttle service is the same before and after the service change and the weekday service is a moot point. If that person thinks waiting one day will change anything, then he has no common sense. Tinlinkin (talk) 06:06, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Lol yeah well it's sad to see Nassau M go but times are rough. The M logo on the upper right still needs to change to Orange.--IGeMiNix (talk) 06:17, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

The file in question, File:NYCS-bull-trans-M.svg, has been updated. It's going to take some time for the server to refresh the pages to the new image if I understand the mechanics correctly, hopefully not too long. Tinlinkin (talk) 06:51, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Off hour shuttles

Could you guys please stop changing it. The 5, M and R trains operates as shuttles during off hour service. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.189.168.173 (talk) 14:42, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Railroad Directions

As the M is the only route that actually changes railroad directions...I am going to note that in the infobox in the next edit. --AEMoreira042281 (talk) 16:11, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

You guys need to settle this with the IP because he just keeps getting other IPs and changing it.--iGeMiNix 16:52, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

There seems to be some confusion over railroad directions in the Eastern Division. Although the track numbers are south leaving Manhattan and north towards Manhattan; operationally they are north leaving Manhattan, and south towards Manhattan. The J and Z's north terminal is Jamaica Center and the south terminal is Broad Street. The M does not technically have a southern terminal because it travels through the Chrystie Street cut. The statement about railroad directions was inserted in June 2010 for someone looking at the Jamaica Line stations. Otherwise, all stations shared by the J and M would have contradicting next north and south stations. With the exception of the M, all other trains in the NYC Subway have only one north terminal and one south terminal. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:21, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

The South terminal of the M train is Metropolitan avenue. The M never changes railroad directions. A southbound M at Marcy will make Hewes street next, while a southbound J at Marcy will make Essex next. You are correct- the J and M DO have contradicting next stations at every shared stop. There is NO contradiction in direction on the M line. It is entirely southbound in both track and service from Continental to Metropolitan. Like any other line, the M has a north and a south terminal, literally, technically, figuratively, however you wish to call it. The J however has a change. Southbound J trains are running on the Northbound track from Jamaica Center to Chambers. That said, the J is considered southbound for its entire run from Parsons Archer to Broad, as no line changes direction midway through its run. 71.190.36.20 (talk) 17:51, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I again reverted an attempt to change this, which was substantially better phrased. As the statement being made would reasonably apply to the J/Z trains, I will add said statement there. 98.14.158.206 (talk) 20:19, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Furthermore, to quote Marc Shepard above on a different topic "But in any case, I have no obligation to disprove the statement. The burden of proof is on the editor who wishes to add it. Please find a reliable source (something you can cite with a footnote, such as a newspaper article). Otherwise, however true you may believe it to be, it has no place in Wikipedia." CITE IT if you claim it is correct. 98.14.158.206 (talk) 00:50, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

It is nice that you follow the rules that Wikipedia uses, you should link your sources before you start vandalizing by changing them without them.--iGeMiNix 00:55, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I cannot link a book. I really cannot conceive why this keeps on being reverted. My argument is as follows: 1. It is factually wrong. (See 2010 Tracks of the New York City Subway by Peter Dougherty) 2. It is not cited. See above statement by Marc Shepard. IF YOU CAN CITE IT, DO SO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.14.158.206 (talk) 01:00, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

And once again the changes have been reverted. Middle Village - Metropolitan Avenue is the NORTHERN terminal for the BMT Myrtle Avenue Line while Myrtle Avenue is the SOUTHERN terminal. Before the M was rerouted via the Chrystie Street Connection, Metropolitan Avenue was its northern terminal while its soutern terminal was Myrtle Avenue, Chambers Street, or Bay Parkway. Service from Essex Street was in the southbound direction and service to Metropolitan Avenue was in the northbound direction. While Metropolitan Avenue is the new southern terminal for the M due to its new route via Sixth Avenue and Queens Boulevard, this does NOT change the railroad direction of the Jamaica and Myrtle Avenue Lines. Their northern and south terminals and track directions remain the same. As a result, southbound M service operates on the northbound track of those lines and vice versa.

Also, the J/Z does not change railroad direction at all. Its northern terminal is Jamaica Center – Parsons/Archer, northern terminal for the BMT Archer Avenue Line, while its southern terminal is Broad Street, the southern terminal for the BMT Nassau Street Line. Queens-bound service may be operating on the former southbound express track in Manhattan, but it stills operates in the north railroad direction. Whoever is running these addresses is messing up railroad direction with geographical direction because geographically, the BMT Jamaica Line runs in the southeast direction from Marcy Avenue to Broadway Junction. I am considering these edits as vandalism, which results in serious consequences for those involved. The Legendary Ranger (talk) 01:03, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Throughout the entire B division, Railroad directions are indicated by a system which can clearly be determined from track number. A train travelling on an ODD numbered track is running RAILROAD SOUTH and one running on an EVEN numbered track is running RAILROAD NORTH, provided that trains are not wrong railing. J trains DO in fact, change direction. A NORTHBOUND J train will be running RAILROAD SOUTH, after it leaves Chambers street heading towards Jamaica Center. Prior to 6/27/10, M trains also changed railroad direction, A NORTHBOUND M train would be running RAILROAD SOUTH after Chambers Street. I Hereby CITE 2010 Tracks of New York City Subway by Peter Dougherty for these points, although one can also see the general rule on http://www.thejoekorner.com/indexfrm.html of northbound vs southbound. ANY TRAIN leaving Chambers Street on the Nassau line is running Southbound, REGARDLESS of track. I will leave the statement for a few more days to give you time to cite something in support, but will remove it if no such citations appear, I am hereby challenging the statement. To quote directly from wikipedia policy: "All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable published source using an inline citation." "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. You may remove any material lacking a reliable source that directly supports it." Considering these policies, It is clear that my edits are quite solidly in line with wikipedia policy, and the addition of this unverifiable incorrect statement is clearly not in line with wikipedia policy. 98.14.158.206 (talk) 01:27, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Furthermore, current wikipedia pages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway_chaining#BMT and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMT_Myrtle_Avenue_Line both clearly identify proper North and South ends of BMT line M. 98.14.158.206 (talk) 02:17, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

As I have provided sources directly contradicting the statement, have provided two days to allow someone to find a source, and the statement is both unsourced and verifiably false, I am removing the statement. 98.14.158.206 (talk) 21:49, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

You can't use Wikipedia as a source. That's circular logic, Sorry. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:23, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I am not using them as sources- just as points in agreement. My sources for said removal were the JoeKorNer Website and the Dougherty Track Book. 98.14.158.206 (talk) 00:25, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Between the Essex Street and the Metropolitan Avenue, the M operates on the northbound direction due to J/Z train's northern terminal at Jamaica, the Metropolitan Avenue station is the northern terminal on the BMT Myrtle Avenue Line but the Southern terminal for the M service. I have fixed the page again. No edit warring please. 24DeathRow173 (talk) 23:37, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Jamaica Center and Metropolitan Avenue stations are both Termini in the RAILROAD SOUTH direction. See Tracks of the New York City Subway by Peter Dougherty, or any eastern division signal diagrams. 98.14.158.206 (talk) 00:17, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Which station is this?

I asked about this on WP:NYPT, but so far nobody has answered; Which station has this M train from 1977? ---------User:DanTD (talk) 12:07, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

File:1977 M Train.jpg

I've looked at the Late-1960's to 1990's chapter and so far I'm still only guessing.

External links modified

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Service pattern from July to September 2017

Line	From	To	Tracks	Times
				week­days	week­ends
IND Queens Boulevard Line	Forest Hills–71st Avenue	Queens Plaza	local
	Court Square–23rd Street	Fifth Avenue/53rd Street	all
IND Sixth Avenue Line	47th–50th Streets–Rockefeller Center	Broadway–Lafayette Street	local
Chrystie Street Connection			all
BMT Nassau Street Line	Essex Street		local
Williamsburg Bridge			all
BMT Jamaica Line	Marcy Avenue	Flushing Avenue	local
	Myrtle Avenue	Broadway Junction
BMT Myrtle Avenue Line (full line)	Central Avenue	Middle Village–Metropolitan Avenue	all	Closed

J4lambert (talk) 00:50, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

No M service late nights during July or August.Theoallen1 (talk) 20:10, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Service pattern from September 2017 to May 2018

Line	From	To	Tracks	Times
				week­days	week­ends	late nights
IND Queens Boulevard Line	Forest Hills–71st Avenue	Queens Plaza	local
	Court Square–23rd Street	Fifth Avenue/53rd Street	all
IND Sixth Avenue Line	47th–50th Streets–Rockefeller Center	Broadway–Lafayette Street	local
Chrystie Street Connection			all
BMT Nassau Street Line	Essex Street		local
Williamsburg Bridge			all
BMT Jamaica Line	Marcy Avenue	Flushing Avenue	local
	Myrtle Avenue	Broadway Junction
BMT Myrtle Avenue Line	Myrtle Avenue	Myrtle-Wyckoff Avenues	all	Closed
	Myrtle-Wyckoff Avenues	Middle Village–Metropolitan Avenue

J4lambert (talk) 00:54, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

No M service late nights to Broadway Junction.Theoallen1 (talk) 20:10, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

This should revert after tonight since it is only a weekend service change (suspension).Theoallen1 (talk) 23:08, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

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Lead image

It looks like the lead image is in dispute. Here are the images being disputed:

• 
  NYC Subway 8357 on the M.jpg; previous picture. Shows the M at Hewes Street, where it still runs today.
• 
  Bway Junction td 19 - BMT Jamaica.jpg; current picture. Shows the M at Broadway Junction, a place where it does not normally stop.

Personally I am in favor of NYC Subway 8357 on the M.jpg, as it shows the M along a route where it normally runs. The other picture has (1) too much glare along the front of the train, and (2) shows the M train at a location that it does not currently run. Here are some other pictures for consideration:

• 
  Court Sq Subway td (2019-04-16) 07 - 23rd Street–Ely Avenue IND.jpg; the M train at Court Square
• 
  Central Ave. (9525278822).jpg; at Central Avenue
• 
  Lex Av-53rd St td 04.jpg; at Lexington Avenue

epicgenius (talk) 03:36, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:M (New York City Subway service)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

I rode this subway a lot times from home to school. I review this.-- Happypillsjr ✉ 03:25, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Reviewer: Happypillsjr (talk · contribs) 03:21, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

@Happypillsjr: Due to the Jewish holiday of Passover and the Sabbath on Saturday, I won't be editing from tonight until Saturday night at the earliest. I wanted to let you know to make sure that you know that I am still committed to addressing your review.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 21:51, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

@Kew Gardens 613: Understood.-- Happypillsjr ✉ 21:57, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

@Happypillsjr: In Kew Gardens 613's absence, I can address any issues that can come up. Just ping me with any issues you find. epicgenius (talk) 03:05, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

• @Happypillsjr: Due to Passover, I won't be able to do any editing from tonight until Thursday evening at the earliest. I am still committed to addressing your concerns with the article. Thanks for your patience and stay safe. @Epicgenius: Thanks so much for helping out!--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 23:13, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Review

Infobox

• The infobox looks good.

1914-1967

"..Marcy Avenue was originally a local stop, but beginning on February 23, 1960, all trains stopped there." → "... On February 23, 1960, all trains were Marcy Avenue was originally a local stop."

•  Done The suggestion was also not grammatical, so I fixed it in a different way.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 11:55, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

2010-present

"Starting June 8, 2014, daytime weekend M service was extended to Essex Street as part of an $18 million funding project to improve subway service; late-night service continues to terminate at Myrtle Avenue."→ "On June 8, 2014, the weekend M service was extended to Essex Street as part of an $18 million funded project to improve subway service; late-night service continues to terminate at Myrtle Avenue."

•  Done--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 11:55, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

"The M is at 90% of New York City Transit's loading guidelines during the AM rush hour. Ridership on the M has been growing very rapidly since the 2010 service change... In June 2016, peak train frequencies on the M route were increased, and it is expected that peak train frequencies would be raised again in the future."→ "During the AM rush hour, the M is at 90% of the New York City Subway's guidelines. The ridership on the M has been rapidly increasing since the 2010 service change...In June 2016, the peak train rate was increased on the M route and that peak train rate would increase in the future."

•  Done--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 11:55, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: These words should be rephrased. -- Happypillsjr ✉ 16:50, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done

MJ Service

• Looks good.

Service Route

 Done Looks fine.-- Happypillsjr ✉ 23:45, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Comments

@Epicgenius: Since Kew Gardens613 is absent, I think this article looks good in shape.-- Happypillsjr ✉ 23:50, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

• @Happypillsjr: I don't think this page is there just yet. For instance:
  • http://www.erictb.info/linehistory.html#m is a self-published source
  • the following statements do not have inline citations:
    • The number 10 was assigned to the service in 1924
      •  Done--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 11:56, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
    • This merger opened up new travel options for northern Brooklyn and Queens in that it allowed direct and more convenient access to areas that were not previously served by those routes such as Midtown Manhattan (before the service changes, M train passengers had to transfer at least once if heading to Midtown, either at Myrtle–Wyckoff Avenues, Essex Street, Canal Street, Chambers Street, or Fulton Street). - this needs to be condensed as well. I've already done this one, but this raises the question of whether there are also other unsourced statements. If I were the reviewer, i wouldn't promote this yet.
• These are supposed to be fixed first. Let's have Kew Gardens 613 take a crack at these before promoting. epicgenius (talk) 00:18, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: I missed that source but that sounds good.-- Happypillsjr ✉ 00:23, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: Let's put this nomination on hold until find the right source.-- Happypillsjr ✉ 04:57, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• @Epicgenius and Kew Gardens 613: I'm also wondering why so much info is being sourced to Flickr? Kingsif (talk) 19:07, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

  Kingsif, I think it is the documents hosted in the images that are being sourced, with Flickr being the intermediary. epicgenius (talk) 19:09, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• @Epicgenius: Is it possible that the documents could be uploaded to WikiSource or something similar? Otherwise, those should be fine. Kingsif (talk) 19:13, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

  Kingsif, unfortunately not, since these are not freely licensed. epicgenius (talk) 19:19, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Overall

• @Kew Gardens 613, Epicgenius, and Happypillsjr: Any updates on where this stands? Kingsif (talk) 17:05, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
  • I have a lot of schoolwork, but got seven straight hours of work this morning, which should give me more time to address these issues soon.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 17:15, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

• Same here too but I also couldnt find some good source for the M line between 1914 to 1967.-- Happypillsjr ✉ 03:38, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

@Kew Gardens 613, Kingsif, and Happypillsjr: I just remembered that Happypillsjr has nominated this article for GA previously, though the nomination was later removed. Given this, it would be a conflict of interest for them to continue reviewing this article. I think we need to open a new /GA2 where Kingsif or any other interested individual (who has not been involved in expanding this page or nominating this article for GA) can take up the review. epicgenius (talk) 21:12, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

@Kew Gardens 613 and Epicgenius: The first issue I see is that there are still large parts without inline citations; I'll leave this on hold until that's fixed, then review it. Looks quite good and short so it shouldn't be much. Kingsif (talk) 15:47, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

It's been over two weeks with no action on this review, though the nominator has been active elsewhere. Looking over the article and nomination, I'm wondering why it was nominated at the time, since it was never cleaned up in preparation for nominating as part of a group of eleven nominations made by Kew Gardens 613 on March 13 (eight of which have already passed; congratulations!)—there are bare URL refs from before the day it was nominated that still haven't been fixed two months later. It's entirely up to Kingsif how this review proceeds from here, but giving the article some prompt attention so it is ready to be reviewed would be a good first step. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:19, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

I'll let Kew Gardens 613 take this as the seven-day notice, but as it stands, refs need fixing first. Kingsif (talk) 14:49, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

@Kingsif and BlueMoonset: I have finished three class papers and have two finals left on Monday and Tuesday. After that I am going to address the issues with this article and other GAs I nominated. @Kingsif: Thanks so much for being patient. I really appreciate it.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 15:24, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Kew Gardens 613, it's been over two weeks. Kingsif gave a seven-day notice, and has been generous with allowing further time. I saw that yesterday you asked another reviewer for comments on one of your nominations; if you have time for that, you have time to finish this up and report back here. Thank you for your consideration and immediate attention. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:04, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

A bunch of edits were made less than two hours after my last post, but Kew Gardens 613 has still not posted anything here, and it's now two weeks later. Kingsif, where does this stand? If there are still significant issues after all this time, perhaps it's time to close it. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:28, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for checking up on this one. Yes, while there's only 2 apparent missing refs now, the structure of the service history is a little confusing. We could probably ask and get a simple answer from Kew Gardens 613, but it's another one where I think a little more time working on it when they're free and out of a review space (clear head, improving it to the best they can from their own sources and experience in editing this area) and it would pass almost straight away. I'd close it, also, because it's not the article with it's editors focus. I know that it was being worked on by Happypillsjr before (with the L service, which is still far off GA), so I don't where it stands in the NYC subway project, and perhaps we can send it back to them for some new love? Kingsif (talk) 02:04, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

@BlueMoonset: forgot a ping Kingsif (talk) 02:05, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

@BlueMoonset and Kingsif: What is the issue with the structure of the service history section? The only other issue that needs to be resolved are the two uses of Eric B's website, which I should find sources for soon.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 11:58, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

The history is broken down in date sections, but some of them don't seem intuitive. And three of them mention 2010 (I haven't re-read these in depth, but if there's no overlap at least the headers need to change) Kingsif (talk) 12:11, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Are my changes any better?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 14:01, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

@Kew Gardens 613: Looking better! I'll give it a full review now, yeah? Kingsif (talk) 05:58, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Comments from Kingsif

• Copyvio check clear - the 63% is from a forum post on May 22, 2020.
  • That forum post was from me! I was asking some people if they had ideas for where to get sources to improve this article. I was pointed to some newspaper articles and journal articles, which were helpful.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 11:53, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
• Lead is a bit too long for article length
• Sources already discussed a bit above. Flickr used re. image information seems fine in the context. There are some inaccessible sources taken on good faith as the rest seem suitable and used appropriately.
• Everything seems cited now, station table attributable to maps and primary docs fine
• Infobox good
• Images all free
• Good use of route diagrams and tables
• Appropriate use and spread of images
• Prose:

• Lead good, perhaps some sort of clarification on full-run terminals? (wikilink, brief description) - though still a bit long
• Two sentences starting "However" near the start of the 1961–1976 section could be changed to read better.
• Move QJ wikilink to its first mention

 Done--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 11:53, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• The break between the paragraphs that start The midday M and The change was made permanent on November 12, 1995 feels like it's in the wrong place - the start of the second paragraph should be connected to the first, with a break maybe warranted later where existing alternative services are discussed. And I may be missing something, but I'm a bit confused about this part: rerouting Q service via the Montague Street Tunnel doesn't seem like a major change, but then the second paragraph quickly starts discussing the cancellation of parts of M service, and I don't see a connection? Could this part be expanded/clarified?

• • @Kingsif: I just clarified the point, which was not explicitly mentioned in the sources I had used. The M was cut back from the Montague Street Tunnel to provide capacity for the Q, to allow it to continue to run into Manhattan while the bridge was undergoing repairs. If this needs to be clearer, let me know. I feel like the paragraph would be too large if they were combined.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 11:53, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• During the AM rush hour - the rest of the article uses 'morning rush hour', which would also make sure readers don't confuse 'AM' for another service line

 Done--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 11:53, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• on September 2 of which year?

 Done--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 11:53, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

• As a side note, hopefully a review of the content/structure of more recent history of the line in a few months/next year will make sure this is still appropriately weighted.

Kingsif (talk) 06:42, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

• @Kew Gardens 613: I don't think I got a ping? Anyway, a week late but it looks good, thanks. Kingsif (talk) 13:00, 2 July 2020 (UTC)