Talk:Madam La Compt

Suggested changes

CaroleHenson, further to your request at WT:WPWIR I have made User:TSventon/sandbox/Madam La Compt and made some edits to suggest some changes to the article. If they are helpful, I could edit the article, or you could if you prefer. TSventon (talk) 08:16, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Lovely, TSventon, great edits. Please feel free to make changes as you wish. Thanks so much for taking the time.–CaroleHenson (talk) 10:41, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

CaroleHenson, thank you, I have made the changes. Have you seen any similar articles? I would be interested to see how another editor tackles a similar problem. TSventon (talk) 11:14, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

TSventon, what a lovely way to start the article. I love it.

Googling around I found:

James Frey, who embellished details in his Oprah Winfrey-anointed memoir of addiction, A Million Little Pieces.

Margaret Seltzer, writing under the pseudonym Margaret B. Jones, who made up a story about being reared by a foster family in gang-ridden South Central Los Angeles

Herman Rosenblat, a Holocaust survivor who said he originally met his wife as a child while in a Nazi concentration camp, where she threw apples over the fence to him. It was called Angel at the Fence.

Perhaps something may be gleaned from Category:Fictional characters based on real people–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

TSventon, After looking at A Million Little Pieces, I made these changes. There is also a category Category:Literary forgeries. Perhaps that should be added, too.

I have had some things to deal with and will be tied up a little today, but I am getting back to research on this family later today or tomorrow.–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:24, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I will be back. I have two sources already in the article that have more content that I will add and I have found another source to add as well.

Please feel free to edit and add as you like, TSventon.–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:00, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

To respond to 15:07 I was looking for characters from unreliable history. That makes me think of the middle ages, but then there are often no reliable sources to compare to.

I am curious if there is any more criticism of Reynolds as an historian. So far I have seen McDermott and Danckers describe him as an unreliable historian, rather than a writer of fiction. Presumably Reynolds first met La Compt around 1813 as she died in 1843, so he couldn't remember most of her alleged life. TSventon (talk) 19:47, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

TSventon, I think some thought that Reynolds stretched the truth, at the very least.

I am not sure that the 30 year period spans until Madam's death. I think the 30 years starts from about when Reynolds came to Cahokia.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:54, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I am sure Reynolds stretched the truth, but it would be useful to see what other RS have to say.

According to the article Reynolds began practicing law in Cahokia in the fall of 1812, which is not far off 1813. TSventon (talk) 20:20, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

That's funny! It sure isn't far off.–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:37, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

CaroleHenson Did you check the Collective Biographies of Women entry? It is based on The women of Illinois by Henry McCormick. He called her Mrs. Le Compt and the "Frontier Angel". The Wikidata item is based on CBW and probably needs updating. TSventon (talk) 11:30, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

TSventon, I made this edit, which I would think would solve the issue. It's still based on the Reynolds article. I added that biography called her the "Frontier Angel". I added a note that she's called "Mrs. Le Compt" in this biography."

Since Reynolds (and the other subsequent biographies) called her "Madam La Compt", if the Wikidata record is changed to "Mrs. Le Compt", which makes sense per the database she came from, I recommend making it a redicect to "Madam La Compt". I am happy to make the updates and redirect.

This article is kicking my bXXX - going through some medical issues that aren't helping at the moment with clarify and cognition - and this has been really confusing. I am debating whether to put this on pause for a bit or not, but I think I will trudge through and see how I do this morning. I haven't been finding much about "Marie Josette Languedoc", so I am confused why she's considered inspiration for Madam La Compt. I should, though, find info for "Marie Joseph La Marche (Mme Le Comte)" and perhaps a bit more for "Marie Josephte L'Archevêque". And, hopefully find some more modern sources. By far, the majority of the sources are 19th-century and mid-20th-century.–CaroleHenson (talk) 12:24, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Firstly, if the article is stressful, do take a break.

TSventon, Great idea! I will definitely slow down. I should probably copy edit more before I research and write more.–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:28, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for adding McCormick's book. That was a nice to have rather than a major omission.–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:28, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

I think that "Madam La Compt" is the best title for the article as it is used by Reynolds who first wrote about her and that Wikidata should follow Wikipedia in this case. Personally I would use "human whose existence is disputed" rather than "human".

Ok, I made that change, I didn't know of that "human" option. Someone was already on the ball and added the following akas: Mrs. Thomas Brady, Mrs. Le Compt, The Frontier Angel, Madam Le Compt at wikidata.–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:28, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

"Marie Josette Languedoc" died in 1843 so she was the woman that Reynolds would have known for thirty years and contributed her husband Pilet dit St. Ange and her date of death to the biography. TSventon (talk) 13:59, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Makes sense.–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:28, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Sfn error

I posted the following Template talk:Sfn#Error when using "ps" parameter and no "ps" for the same page to figure out how to fix the error.–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:35, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

As a short-term solution I added another copy of the source and |ref={{harvid|McDermott (note)|1958}}</nowki> and <nowiki>{{sfn|McDermott (note)|1949|p=128}}–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:44, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Issue is fixed - use "loc" instead of "ps".–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:50, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I thought I had checked the preview but obviously I didn't. TSventon (talk) 19:03, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Illinois State Historical Society, etc.

I have thought about is changing all the "Legend" citations to Reynolds... and that the story was repeated by others sources, with their citation info

• Illinois Catholic Historical Society
• Illinois State Historical Society
• Osborne (and others), Journal of the Illinois State Historical Society
• Osborne (and others), Illinois State Historical Library

I will work on that.–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:04, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree with this. Watson 1939's "a band of warriors their warpaint freshly washed away and humbly obeying the orders given them by the tall white woman marching ahead of them" seems even less reliable than Reynolds. TSventon (talk) 16:27, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:30, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Source for Brady's death

I have been unable to find a replacement source for Brady's death. The current source is a newspaper article based upon Reynold's story - except for the date Brady died. I am debating just removing it - and removing the newspaper source from the article. What do you think?–CaroleHenson (talk) 12:38, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done - since all the rest of the info from the newspaper article is erroneous, I don't have much comfort that it's accurate. And, I don't think that source is needed.–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree, I was going to say so earlier, but obviously didn't. TSventon (talk) 21:44, 22 May 2024 (UTC)