Talk:Madeline Groves

Image caption

It says "Medeline Groves swimming at the 2015 World Aquatics Championships in Kazan, Russia" but her name is Madeline. It appears the caption is not hosted on Wikipedia. Please fix this. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:50, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Seriously? Anyhow, I have corrected it. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:03, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Seriously what? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:03, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Seriously, why is a Wikipedia admin posting a request on a talk page for a one character typographical error correction? This looms large as we are considering converting all the Olympian/Paralympian templates to this format. Does it mean that all changes will have to be funnelled through WP:WikiProject Olympics because Wikipedians will not edit the data? Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:56, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Seriously, I went looking for the error to fix on the Wikipedia article page and I couldn't find it. Can you tell me where the notice is that directs me to the precise page to fix this kind of issue? Seriously? Or do we have to have Wikidata admins patrolling Wikipedia looking to help out with garbage like this? Why can't the caption exist in Wikipedia? Seriously? As you note, if this information is being migrated to Wikidata, this kind of change will need to be handled differently as Wikipedia admins are not required in any way at all to use or edit or understand Wikidata. The projects, while linked (sadly), are different. I made a simple request to fix this crap, if you want to backchat it and make an issue out of it, fine, we'll escalate it and make a big deal out of it. Personally, I can't wait. (P.S. it was a single character correction, but I also note that the Wikidata page appears to be almost completely unreferenced, beside her coach and her ranking [referenced by Dutch Wikipedia!!] Anything there could be utter bullshit, right?) (P.P.S. it is absurd that a caption should exist in Wikidata. Sometimes, the use of an image requires the caption to be context-sensitive. It is patently absurd to expect a "one-caption-fits-all" approach to be appropriate for Wikipedia.... ) The Rambling Man (talk) 22:14, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

@The Rambling Man: There is a link at the bottom-right of the infobox that points to the relevant Wikidata entry to be edited. The caption can exist locally if you want (you just use the infobox template in the same way as usual, and it will display the local value rather than the Wikidata value). It's essentially the same as pictures on Commons - you can have local copies if needed, otherwise you just stop by a Wikimedia sister project to make the change there. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 16:06, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Great, thanks. I'll definitely not be using the Wikidata variants of these fields. Particularly as they seem to be almost entirely unreferenced. I don't think it's a good thing for Wikipedia edits to be forced down the path of editing another project just to get things right here. But that's another whole different discussion. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:12, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Just out of interest Mike Peel, if I'm editing the source, rather than looking at the output, where am I informed where to go to fix errors? Does this square up with the visual editor approach? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:21, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

For example, her infobox contains two nicknames, neither of which are referenced anywhere. Can I just go to Wikidata and delete them? They are unreferenced there too. As a BLP, this sort of thing is fundamentally important. Wikidata should not be allowed to be drawn into Wikipedia unless it is referenced for BLPs as a minimum. Where can this can discussed? It looks like a lot of things have been overlooked and we're wandering down a dismal path. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:24, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

You can find them at rio2016.olympics.com.au. I have added them to the article. All the facts in the Infobox are referenced in the article, of which the Infobox is only a summary.

I translated the article from Dutch into English. (Because of declining numbers of Wikipedians, articles now frequently appear in foreign languages first.) Then Mike and I decided to use it as a test of Wikidata. He created the Wikidata version of the sportsperson template, and incorporated it into the article as a pilot project. I arranged for it to run on the front page as a DYK during the Olympics. So um, I welcome you making a big deal about it now before things proceed further, although this might not be the most public forum. Hawkeye7 (talk) 23:02, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

I know where I can find nickname references. The point is that Wikidata hosts these things without references. You are aware of of WP:BLP, right? The Rambling Man (talk) 04:54, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Well, I'm not a admin, but doesan't WP:CONEXCEPT apply here? Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:56, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

@The Rambling Man: I get the sense that you're not a fan of Wikidata, other Wikimedia projects, or other language Wikipedias... You're asking a lot of questions here, which go way beyond the scope of the content of this article. So to try to answer the ones you've asked here, and ones I've heard from other people, I've started a draft FAQ page at User:Mike Peel/Wikidata-driven infoboxes - perhaps take a look and add further questions there? Or we could continue this on the talk pages of Wikipedia:Wikidata or Module:Wikidata? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:25, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

P.S. I've added the reference info for the nicknames to Wikidata. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:58, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

I'm just a fan of references and avoiding BLP violations. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:12, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

I suspect that, underlying what you're saying, is a belief in providing factual, referenced information. That's what I'm trying to do here - Wikidata is a central resource that has the potential to provide that information across language barriers, in a standard way. There are definitely problems with the current application, but it just needs a bit of time and effort to fix them. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:35, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

I don't think that many people see problems until they have a concrete example in front of them. Until then everything seems perfect. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:51, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Data at Wikidata should be prevented from being used across all languages of Wikipedia until it is correctly and verifiably sourced. Simple. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:05, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

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