Talk:Madsen machine gun

To unknown gun guy/whoever knows more than me

Is the Illustration or line drawing shown really a Madsen? It seems to be of a belt-fed weapon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.12.81.142 (talk) 01:34, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Good question. The right half of the drawing definitively isn't a Madsen, the left half might be. Manxruler (talk) 02:08, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

If this weapon was used this extensively, more details must be available. Do let me know. I put a {{expert}} tag on this article because I have no idea if any of this is true, and don't have a good hour to research it or to look up back issues of Jane's...

Cheers

V. Joe 15:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC) hey v. joe i know some stuff about it..it was used by several states like russia, germany (it was called "muskete" and was used in small battalions..four men operated one madsen. it used a 25 round amg and was mainly used in defence. here is a picture i found in an old book about the war [url]http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/6250/madsenbn5.jpg[/url] actually this is a russian madsen and it is loaded with 5 round strips greetz homer jay

Chinn (CHINN, George M. The Machine Gun: History, Evolution and Development of Manually Operated, Full Automatic, anda Power Driven Aircraft Machine Guns. Ann Arbor: Edwards Brothers, 1951. pages 410 and 411) cites teh following users of Madsens: Arentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Bulgaria, Chile, China, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, England, Esthonia, Ehtiopia, Finland<F rance, Holland, Honduras, Hungary, Italiy, Lithuania,Mexico, Norway, Pakistan, Paraguay, Peruy, Portugual, Russia, El Savaldor, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, Thailand and Uruguay).

WW2 Germany converted a number of Madsens to belt-fed configurations IRRC - should be cited in an Ian Hogg work, probably his Encyclopedia of Infantry Weapons of World War II - so the belt fed thing may still be a Madsen. He compares the complexity of the conversion to "operating two lifts in one shaft". 62.196.17.197 (talk) 11:55, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Don't know about what the Germans were up to, but the Danes also messed around with a belt fed Madsen before WW2. WegianWarrior (talk) 18:53, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Long or short recoil?

I'm trying to figure out which recoil system would best describe this gun's operation; personally I'm leaning towards short recoil as I think it sums it up better, although it's exceedingly bizarre--or at least rather unique--mechanism might still count as long recoil on some technicality or other. Could someone with more knowledge of its arcane workings elaborate?--194.247.53.233 00:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Long Recoil: the Barrel fully recoils the length of the cartridge to remove it from the chamber.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.19.233.232 (talk) 04:38, 19 October 2008 (UTC) 

Brazilian Madsen still in use

I'm a Brazilian Army lieutenant, reserve. As long as I'm concerned, the Madsen's still in use by brazilian police are old army madsen's that were no longer used by Army and Naval infantry. I fired two of this guns in 1990 and 1993. Both were original .30 modified to fit NATO 7.62. They still show the .30 markings on the left side of the gun.They have slow rate of fire and a distinguished low tone shot, similar to browning .50. Maybe drug dealers had one or two, but many Army guns were transferred to police service.Campola (talk) 00:02, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I suspected as much. We should look for some source that confirms that the Brazilian Army and Naval Infantry used the Madsen. That would support them as the source for Brazilian police Madsens. Yes, the Madsen's rate of fire is quite slow. As was seen during the Norwegian Campaign weapons like the MG34 have a much greater rate of fire. Manxruler (talk) 09:27, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

As a matter of fact some brazilian states police forces used Madsen in the early 30's. In 1932, during a revolution, the police from Minas Gerais (a brazilian state) used this gun to fight against the army. These were 7mm. The link http://www.fab.mil.br/imprensa/enotimp/2007/04-ABR/enotimp110.htm shows some news and one of them talks about a 7.62 mm madsen that police recovered from drug dealers that was stolled from a museum. Unfortunately it's in portuguese.Campola (talk) 17:50, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Another link. In Portuguese, too.It says that another Madsen found in bad hands was from Argentinean Army.http://www.ultimahoranews.com/not_ler.asp?codigo=34537Campola (talk) 18:13, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Then I think you should do some edits, and add those links as inline citations for your edits. Manxruler (talk) 12:31, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Brazil did bought the following machine guns models:

1906(not issued), 1908 (not issued), 1913 (not issued), 1918, 1928 (flexible mount for aircraft), 1932, 1934, 1935 and 1938 (tank model), all in 7 x 57 mm. Models 1945 and 1949 were in 7,62 x 63 mm (30.06) - both Brazilian made (at Laminação de Metais SA) and model 1964(?) was in 7,62 x 51 (NATO). Model 1932 (20 mm) was used as anti-tank and anti-aircraft gun by both Army and Marines (small numbers, though).

Models 1932, 1934 and 1935 Machine Guns were used also by the Marines and Air Force (ground defense). Police forces, being classed as army reserves, did receive all models of Madsen machine-rifles up to model 1935.

In Brazil, only the tripod equiped machine guns were so called, the others were "machine-rifles". So,, modelos 1906, 1908 and 1918 were not machine-guns (officialy). The tank and aircraft guns and the model 1949 were not designed to fire with tripods, so they were "machine-rifles". The others were dual purpose.

The army retired the last Madsen machine guns in 1996, but the Army Ordnance School continued to give maintanance courses on them during two more years. Rio de Janeiro Police retired their last madsens this year, but other police forces in Brazil still have them in reserve. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.19.233.232 (talk) 04:54, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Today's (October 19, 2009) Wall Street Journal newspaper published photos of Brazilian police using the Madsen machine gun in a clash in Rio, I updated the entry with the proper reference. Clearly the weapon is still in use by the Brazilian police. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.116.84.147 (talk) 23:45, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Madsen Muskette??

I found in the site grandes guerras.com (a brazilian site about 1st and 2nd World War small arms) that called the Madsen MG as Madsen Muskette, someone have some sources if this is the real name of the Madsen MG? --Cypher3 (talk) 00:13, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Never heard of that name. Doesn't seem likely at all. Manxruler (talk) 21:10, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

If you're looking for what the Danes originally called the gun, then that's Madsen rekylgevær (Madsen recoil rifle). Madsen Muskette might be what the the Brazilians called it. The proper ("real") name for the gun in English is "Madsen machine gun". Manxruler (talk) 21:30, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I'll just pipe up a bit and mention that during the First World War, the Germans formed light machine gun battalions and calleded them Musketen battalions. They were initially equipped with formerly Russian Madsens (later captured Lewis guns). Not sure if this is related to the "problem" at hand, but could be.--172.130.242.181 (talk) 04:32, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

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Renaming the article?

So Madsen made several types of machine guns over the years. Some examples being their 11,35 mm machinegun or the madsen-saetter mg etc. I'm suggesting moving the article to Madsen light machine gun.--Blockhaj (talk) 07:59, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 17 November 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Consensus to not move. (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 10:58, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

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Madsen machine gun → Madsen automatic rifle – Madsen made several machine guns and this weapon was classed by the Danes, Swedes and many others as an automatic rifle. Blockhaj (talk) 15:06, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

• At 3 feet 3 inches long and weighing 20 pounds, how easy is it to fire it from the shoulder like a rifle without using its two front legs? (Compare the AK47 at 2 feet 11 inches long and weighing somewhere about 8 or 8.5 pounds.) Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:09, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

The gun actually weighed more around 16,4 pounds in real life (7,5 kg). And that isn't that far from the Browning automatic rifle at 16 pounds (7,25 kg). So comparing it to an assault rifle like the AK-47 isnt really valid. Also an automatic rifle is generally meant to be fired from a prone position, with or without a bipod.--Blockhaj (talk) 15:26, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. We're not trying to define it with the title, we're supposed to record what it's mostly called. IMHE, that's an MG. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:44, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
  • Even then most people call it the Madsen light machine gun.--Blockhaj (talk) 20:20, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:55, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, and for what it's worth the Danish wikipedia also calls it a machine gun and not an automatic rifle (Swedish wikipedia calls it a machine gun rifle, but...). Perhaps OP is confusing it with the Madsen-Rasmussen M1888 or M1896, which were self loading rifles using a very similar internal mechanism? WegianWarrior (talk) 18:53, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
• Not confusing. Also the danish Wikipedia is heavily underdeveloped.--Blockhaj (talk) 20:26, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
  • Here is a source for the danish designating it an automatic rifle: https://danmark1914-18.dk/objekter/madsen-rekylgevaer-m-1903 WegianWarrior. Rekylgevær, meaning recoil rifle, is the danish name for automatic rifle.--Blockhaj (talk) 21:00, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Orphaned references in Madsen machine gun

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Madsen machine gun's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Capie":

• From Lee–Enfield: Capie, David (2004). Under the Gun: The Small Arms Challenge in the Pacific. Wellington: Victoria University Press. pp. 66–67. ISBN 978-0-86473-453-2.
• From Bren light machine gun: Capie, David (2004). Under the Gun: The Small Arms Challenge in the Pacific. Wellington: Victoria University Press. pp. 68–69. ISBN 978-0864734532.

Reference named "Bishop":

• From Automatic rifle: Bishop, Chris (2002). The Encyclopedia of Weapons of World War II. Sterling Publishing. p. 217.
• From M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle: Bishop, Chris: The Encyclopedia of Weapons of World War II, p. 239. Sterling Publishing, 2002.

Reference named "Jones":

• From Pakistan: Adam Jones (2004). Genocide: A Comprehensive Introduction. Routledge. p. 420. ISBN 978-0-415-35384-7.
• From Malta: Jones, Huw R. (1973). "Modern emigration from Malta". Transactions of the Institute of British Geographers. 60 (60): 101–119. doi:10.2307/621508. JSTOR 621508.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 17:07, 10 March 2020 (UTC)